I'll get a team. Welcome to another installment you project. It's bloody aarps in the thriving metropolis of Melbourne. It's raining, it's raining like the middle of winter here. It's cloudy, it's dark, it's it's kind of cold, and we're about three minutes away from bloody summer. What's it like in Karatha, doctor Sam?
Yeah, it's really starting to heat up over here?
Is it's the what's the I should know this? But is it is Caratha very humid or is it just hot?
It's very humid? Yeah?
Right?
And so what's what's your favorite what's the most comfortable or maybe that depends that's person in person. What's your favorite time of the year? What is it winter? Is it autumn, spring, summer?
That's a good one, not that it feels like we go through all the seasons, but I definitely think that September is a really good time. And April, so yeah, that's I see the best.
How long does it take to drive from person to Kartha if you were going.
To drive about eighteen hours?
Oh god, yeah god. So that's like that's like Melbourne to Sydney and beyond. Like, yeah, Melbourne and Sydney's. That's like double more than double.
Maybe you need to do it in like two days at least.
Yeah, but you wouldn't have you ever driven it. You wouldn't bother it, would you.
Yeah, because you can kind of make it like a road trip. You know, you could stop off at a few places, and yeah, I have driven it, but I definitely don't do it often because you know, to shaves off time of your trips.
So so when people when people come to Karafa, do they are they overwhelmed with the heat and the humidity and you're like, what do you mean it's just Tuesday, because you're fully acclimated.
Yeah, that's exactly what happens. I think people kind of get shot and they're like, Wow, this is so hot, and you know, coming into the summer month, I'm like, oh this, there's nothing yet.
You know, this is our cooler month. So you're right.
My body definitely has like a climatized to it. Even though I grew up from pair, I definitely feel like I'm a country girl now.
Des A Gal Well, thank you for getting up at stupid o'clock. As we record this, it's just after five point forty five in the morning, So clearly your a morning person. Does your brain work better in the am than the PM or neither.
I've had to make myself an early person because I found that's the only way I can get any exercise done, and it really sets me out for the day. But I definitely feel like I'm a natural night ours or it's definitely a bit of a tug of war between my mind working probably better at night, but my body working better in the morning.
So back in the old days, when you were a kid two years ago and you're you're doing your PhD and you're up to your eyeballs in fucking research and bullshit and long nights and stress and anxiety and submissions and all of that, when did you do your best work, like your best study, your best research, your best focus.
Nine pm to twelve am.
So when I yeah, when ID the first when I went back to my PhD. So I first started, and I got pregnant at the same time, you know, as you do. And so then I took actually I took a few months off and I went back and I was doing it part time, very part time. And when I went back, I had three hours like a chunk off the day where I wasn't feeding my daughter, felt
like I got a three hour chunk. Usually should be feeding, you know, over two hours, but there was this one little moment where it was between nine pm and twelve am, and that's where I would do my best way. Yeah, so I definitely became the night out because of that. And it was amazing, though, how little sleep I got and how energized I felt during that period of my life.
And I think it was because I just love the research, and it was, yeah, it was you know, compared to maybe you know, mums that would maybe spend that time cleaning or you know, kind of numbing out right from the day because you're exhausted. I felt like I was really recharging when I got to, you know, spend that time doing research.
So I just woke up feeling great.
Isn't it funny when you're doing something and it feels like your purpose or your reason or your mission more than just a requirement or a job or a thing you've got to do to create an outcome. How much more energy and excitement and enjoyment you have in that process.
It feels so different.
And I know when I was doing a lot of therapy with mums and they're like, I just can't fit this in my day. I'm so exhausted, you know, looking at what they were sitting their energy and time. It
it is sometimes hard to explain. You know, it's not necessarily swapping out something for something, you know, it's actually like the energizing stuff, right, how much energy depleting stuff that we have on our plates as mums and then yeah, really being able to add in some of our passions and things that we actually love back and how that actually gives us more what feels like more times?
Can I ask you free kid to post kid, did your body change in any way, like as in you just seem to do better on less sleep or you need more sleep? Or of course your body changed, but I'm not talking about that, but in terms of the reset, like the default setting, or do you think it's more that you're thinking in your mind and your attitudes and just your priorities changed or something else.
Oh it's a good one because I got diagnosed with an audioary disease after I had my son, so I guess I potentially could have had that before though, so I wouldn't really know.
But that changed.
I think I became because I'm a mom, right, you know you've got limited time. I think I became a bit more of a doer than I was before because it had such limited time.
And I think I actually became probably be more driven, because.
Before, I guess I didn't feel like I was like, oh, you know, you've got time for that. You know eventually I'll get to that. But when you're a mom, you're like, oh my gosh, like I need to get these things done, and I want I want to do all these things. So I think, yeah, I became a bit more driven, if anything, and probably more intentional.
I think with my time and my any, I feel like sometimes when we don't have to do something right, we know that we can put it off and it's probably not going.
To be catastrophic. Right we go, I'll do it Monday, or i'll do it next week, or i'll do it soon, or I'll do and then sometimes that you know, tomorrow or next week or soon on January one, or whatever the date or the number is in your head, will Now we're seven years down the track, and now I'm still not doing the thing that I've been talking about doing.
And for seven years I've been explaining to myself and rationalizing with myself why I don't need to do it now, and then sometimes reality, which could be you know, health, or it could be something else, but kind of punches you in the face and goes, well, now you don't have a choice. Now you've got to deal with it. Now you've backed yourself into a metaphoric corner where you can't put this off now.
Yeah, that's so true.
And I think sometimes motherhood can act so create the perfect conditions for avoidance because a lot of people will say, now it's not the time, I've got young kids. I'll wait till they're older. And it actually can become harder when they're older, because it doesn't stop. You know, you become a parent to a school age childe. You've got you know those after school sports and things like that. You've got you know, teenagers, you're dropping them off places
or you're helping them out with certain things. And then you've got adults and your grandparent life. So it actually doesn't stop. And when we look at these external conditions.
And we realize it's it's really not about that.
It's actually about how we're approaching it and how we're seeing it, and we can neither use it as fuel to get stuff done, or we can use that as almost like a barrier.
Now, I don't know if this is appropriate or inappropriate, So if it's inappropriate, we'll take it out.
Doc, Yeah, worried?
So how long how old is your son? Firstly, he can and for how long have you been a single mom or a single parent?
So three years? So when he was seven?
Right?
Is eight?
So does right? So you've got and a ten year old?
Yeah?
Are they with you most of the time, all the time, half the time the time? Okay? Okay, okay? And so when you like and this is really common obviously, it's not not like you're a unicorners where you and your husband aren't together anymore and stuff happens and whatever. You know, people move on, people change direction in their life. Right, So, how have you had to teach the kids and talk to the kids and kind of navigate this stuff with
them emotionally? And being as you're essentially a childhood specialist or a kid specialist and a psychologist, do you put on the psychology hat or do you just leave on the mum hat for that?
Yeah, it's really interesting because you kind of can fight with your brain with that because you can see things, right, yes, but yeah, you know your mum, so I think. And we've all got our own stories around that too, right, So my parents are gray when I was younger, Sae, then you've got that kind of lens that I come with too.
So I think it's difficult.
Because, especially being someone you know who works in the industry, there is so much that we can know, but it's also so much that's outify control, and so what do we do in those situations? Right, Well, we can see the situation, we can see things, and then it's like, well, this is what I can see, this massive bit, but I have like a slice of control here and I kind of have to have somewhat acceptance of other things.
And so that's been a really good lesson for me, and that as well in really focusing again on my own growth and also knowing that their story is going to be different from my story and supporting them through that.
Sometimes I think we think it's a separation or the divorce that actually harms kids, but what we know it's really the conflict and that can be in a marriage or out of the marriage, right, So it's really trying to minimize children's exposure to that, but then also knowing a lot of the pain comes from people dismissing it, right like you know, you're okay, you'll leave what two of everything or look at the bright side, just straight into kind of problem solving mode, rather than sitting with
the pain and knowing that for a lot of kids, right, like the whole world's kind of fall apart, them having to rebuild, and so allowing for I think that transition was probably probably one of the most tricky bits for me and for them, right because we've got again, well we're going through different things at the time. But I think it is such a good lesson on, I would say, being able to really sit with transitions, right because this is one part a divorce, those separation, but kids will
lose people in their life. That's another sense of grief and loss, and so I think these days we are trying to kind of protect kids a bit too much from that, rather than letting them go through these transitions and allowing them to sit in that pain or sit in that yeah, that that face of their life and then being.
Able to find the joy within that.
So I think, yeah, it's been definitely a learning experience on a lot of levels.
For me, that's such an interesting and to me anyway refreshing perspective is that sometimes we've got to let the kids just sit in the pain and feel that because we're going to lose people and grief is part of life. In a time when it seems like we're trying to protect children from every possible thing all the time, any discomfort, any conflict, like so that you know, we're going to nerse their world until they're eighteen. We don't want them to have to deal with anything hard because you know,
the motives are good. Of course that's a good motive. I don't want my kid to feel any pain or discomfort or but a kid that grows up never having to deal with pain or discomfort or uncertainty, you know, or any of those things, and people will go, you're not a fucking parent, I agree. But from the outside looking in, it seems like kids having to deal with hard things sometimes, you know, as long as there's a
caring parent, probably not too far away. But being able to deal with hardshit is not the worst preparation for becoming an adult, for building resilience, for building understanding, for building awareness, for being able to solve problems, for being able to deal with complexity and difficulty, which is just the fucking human experience.
Yeah, and I think you're so right on this. I see this a lot, and I even experienced this a lot, and I can see this. Oh, you know, we're torn, right because on one hand, I know that I I mean, you know, seeing a child at pain is horrible, right because you know, this is like it feels like this natural instinct to protect them and you don't want them
to go through any of the hardships. But also I've noticed parents have this story attached, so it's not just like my child has failed I don't know school, it's like my child is fail school and.
That means I'm a bad parent and I haven't done enough.
And so they've got this other story attached, so they see a child's failure as a reflection of them. Then on the other hand, what's really difficult for me looking in is I know I've actually learned most of my things through failures. I've learned the things that look so messy probably from the outside, right, well, the times where I felt like really not down by life, I've actually learned the most and that's character building, I think, And
so I very much like this version of me. But then to get this version of me, I had to go through these hard things and challenges. So yeah, how do we allow children to be able to go through those things without trying to save them, without trying to make it better, all without trying to fix it just because that makes us feel good.
That will be the struggle I think for all parents.
Do you think that sometimes our intended or our intention to protect them could be unintentionally harming them?
Yeah? Yeah, definitely, And that's the problem.
People think, well, I've got a good intention about this, But I think when we focus on that too much.
It's almost like we lose perspective.
So, for example, I think if I was my daughter when I started my PhD, and I think if I didn't go through that process, right, the messiness of sitting in front of a flaking paper and not knowing what to write, and probably having my own little versions of adult tantrums, I don't think I would have been able to sit with, say when they're trying to figure out a you know, their own school work for example, their own struggles. And so I think, what we need to
do and be able to get those perspectives. If, for example, wild about resilience is do hard things as a parent, start to work on your own goals, start to challenge yourself with things that you think you can't do, and so you'll see this other version of yourself come out, which is one that is like.
Okay, this is difficult, this is tough.
And so then we're able to, I guess, create more space for children to be able to have those challenges as well.
And it's not even a time issue.
Like if you really were to sit with yourself as a parent and say, ten minutes a day, I'm going to focus on my passion, ten minutes a day, I'm going to focus on content or you know, studying or whatever, you'll.
Still see how hard that is.
Like everyone can find ten minutes, but it is hard to do hard things. But I think we definitely lose perspective when we are focusing our whole lives on our children and like I need to give them all the opportunities so that they can have the best life. We don't build the resilience and do we because we're trying to orchestrate it all for them.
We're trying to micromanage every minutes and mitigate every potential danger and solve every problem before the problem arises. And then the kid doesn't know how you know, to be able to deal with the hard stuff because they've never had to. Maybe that's the outcome, or maybe is more inherent. But I feel like, you know, like with grown ups,
I deal with grown ups way more. But you know, when I want to help someone with a problem or a challenge of grown up, I know that even if five people have got the same problem, I need to approach it five different ways because I've got five different humans with five different backgrounds and mindsets and levels of understanding and resilience. And so even trying to solve or at least address the same issue, generally one have the exact same antidote or solution.
Yes, that's a good point, and I think sometimes different skills are needed for different times. So perfect example of this, right is of course, play therapy. So we think about the kids, right like, sometimes we're in situations where they are faced with a problem, We're like, okay, what can.
We do, Let's try this? How about this?
But then there's times, and especially in play, where we have the space to do this right, we're not trying to rush out the door or at eight am to get to school. Well, we have time to sit with it and allow them to find their own problem solving. So a perfect example of this right is a child wanting to create, say a car out of the cardboard box.
Now what we learn as in a teaching kind of perspective, right, We'll say they'll say, you know, I want to build this car, and you'll be like, oh, I have the best thing for this. I've got red paint here, I've got a you know, paper plate. We could use a steering wheel. How about we you know, do these wheels. And every time they come up with something, we're going to try and make it better. Okay, we're kind of filling the gaps with that, but with the child's centered
play therapy, those kind of skills. When we're sitting with the child, the child will say I want to build a red car. And so we're sitting there and we're like, okay, sounds like you've got a plan, and they're like, but I don't know what to do with the wheels. You might say, hmm, you seem a bit stuck.
I'm not sure what to do next.
Do you see how I'm not fixing out, I'm reflecting back. So I'm reflecting back the content of what they're doing. I'm reflecting back the feeling. I might even reflect back the effort. Right, you know, you're trying really hard to figure this next bit out and then I'm pausing. And so what that allows them is space to think about this their own internal voice.
Now they may come up with a solution that we.
Think, oh my god, that's not going to work, or you know, we could have used something else better, But hey, we're sitting with that and we're letting that play out. And that is so hard for us adults because we lead the problem solving bit and we can see this vision.
What we're not allowing them to do is to go through their own what would you call it experimenting right with things like let them experience it not working out, or let them experience a substandard version of what you thought that car was, because guess what the next bit is actually them playing a character with that car, and that is what they're trying to get to. It's probably a lot of the time not so much about the car, but actually what that car was intended to do in
the place. So I think that's a really good example of again giving spaces where we have the time and the space to actually allow their own internal kind of concepts.
To come out.
I love that so much. I feel like, you know, as the parent or the adult, or the teacher, even even adults. Working with adults is like to create a context or an environment or a situation where they have to solve the problem. So you're kind of giving them an opportunity to lean into critical thinking. And so we're trying to teach kids how to think, not to tell them what to think right, how to think for themselves, not become a version of us the teacher.
Yeah, and the critical thinking is huge we think about in this day and age with school, they don't focus as much on critical thinking because you know, it's like the spelling and the grammar. And because I've gone through this process, I'm focusing on my critical thinking.
I can see that.
So, you know, when my daughter's showing me a story right that she's getting out for school, I can easily ignore the spelling and grammar. I mean, she's probably a lot better at that than me anyway. But I'm looking at the critical thinking. So I think when we foster that within ourselves, we understand what, you know, the goal should be, and then we're able to kind of mute out the rest.
I think part of the issue is that we are inundated with stuff, with information, with ideas, with content, you know, by creators. And that's not a bad thing, that's just the situation we're in. And so I think a lot of times we just accept stuff. You know, we go, oh, like when someone says to me, which I get a fair bit, I've done my research and blah blah blah. I go, okay, what was that research? And what they're telling me is I watched a YouTube video. Yeah, I
mean that's their research. I'm like, all right, so, and I'm not trying to be condescending or ready you just go cool, So you watched a YouTube video by a bloke or a lady who got in front of camera and said stuff. So you just heard someone else say stuff. That isn't research. That's just you watching something that may or may not be true. That's not you thinking critically,
that's you adopting someone else's thinking. That you memorize something and then redistributing that to your social kind of sphere. As data or you know, it's like, no, that's the opposite of critical thinking. That makes you almost like an unconscious passenger in their court thought cult, you know, where you like, now, what they're saying could be true, but fucking lean into it. I read this. I read this. Somebody sent me this research and it said they were
talking about they talked, oh, that's right. They were talking about the benefits of hanging right, so you know, just hanging from a chin bar, which, by the way, hanging from a chin bar can be quite good. And they were talking about how amazing it is for like spinal issues and decompression of the spine and you know, like lumbar bulges and all these disc problems and all this shit, right, And obviously I'm an XI scientist, so I'm like, yeah, maybe maybe, And then it quotes this research from the
Mayo Clinic in twenty nineteen. I'm like, well, this is at least there's you know, it's like and one of the things was surgeons now spinal surgeons are now telling people not to have surgery and to do this. I'm like, well, fuck, they're not doing that, that's bullshit, right. So then I went so I read this thing that someone sent me and they went, you'll like this and it's research based datata. Then I went to find the research. The research doesn't exist.
It was all AI generated bullshit. So even something that someone said me sent me that had these references alleged references, when I did a deep dive, it was like, oh, this research done at the Mayo Clinic in twenty nineteen, and I spent twenty minutes trying to it doesn't exist. That research doesn't exist.
So and yeah, and so this is what's really hard that with research, as you know, we could see research that supports the other side, and so then we actually have to use critical thinking to make it, you know, make a decision. And so a lot of parents, I think, get really stuck with this because they're like, what does
the research say? And then they're getting pulled from every direction and they're just not allowing enough time for critical thinking and going actually, what with all these things there?
What's it right with you?
With challenging like your bias and your assumptions and the stories that we tell ourselves, like it's sometimes we'll only find research is for what we want to see.
Yeah, confirmation bias, the old their coach chamber, you know. And the thing is too, It's like you might go, oh, well, what we know is that, you know, most elite basketballers are taller than six for six, and you go, oh, well, I'm six' one, okay, fin's you know. And then you go, oh, but also, well that is true, but also there are basketballers that are under six foot that are fucking amazing and playing the NBA and the NBL and a world
class and have representing their country at the Olympics. And oh so it's not you know, exclusively this or that. You know. So I think that realizing that a lot of a lot of data and a lot of these kind of numbers that get thrown around or this information is often more indicative than it is conclusive, if not complete bullshit at times.
Yeah, And I feel like the more that we can just focus on the extent or right, we forget our own data that we may be gathering about ourselves or own patterns and being able to actually reflect on those, because I think that they're actually a lot more helpful sometimes in the way that we then go, what's our next step? Okay, well, let's look at what we been doing.
Is that really waking for us, Okay, what do we need to tweak and change rather than trying to find this extental like give me the answer and then it's not still sitting right.
What's the difference for you as a teacher and as a psychologist, or as an educator and a psychologist. What is the difference between learning and memorizing information?
Because learning I feel.
Like, yeah, sorry, shut up, no, you go go.
I don't think we're learning. I thought that's a critical thinking that we were talking about. The memorizing, which often schools really focus on piece of stuff where you're just trying to regurgitate information but you don't quite understand it.
Yes, yes, or even if you do understand it, it's like, and I'm not saying there should be no none of that. I'm just saying, yeah, it's like all of these things I think are worth putting under the spotlight. And sometimes people push back and it's like, why are you anti educational? I'm definitely not, like I'm literally in the education system literally, but I think it's worth just questioning. It's like, I'm sure with your daughter who's eight and your son who's ten,
if you you wanted to teach them both something. Depending on the something and the situation, you might teach them differently because you know they don't think the same or respond the same or learn the same.
Oh, definitely the way that they learns different. And their interests in the curiosity. And I think for me, when I look at like they learning or teaching, it's I like, the curiosity tell me, show me something that a child will focus on that little bit longer than others, right, that they're interested in They've got a question about something, they notice something, and then you follow that lead.
I think that that's just such a.
More forganic way rather than going now we're learning this, or you should learn this. It's like, wow, you're actually interested in that, let's like follow that through. I think that's where the critical thinking can come in. That's where the passions, right, you're really fostered during that within them.
We kind of touched on before the fact that we want kids to be able to deal with life all the practical messy, good and bad peaks and trust fair and unfair because that's life. Life's fair, Life's unfair. You know, bad things happen to good people. We get all of that. So how do we keep our kids safe in inverted commas while creating an environment or a context or a situation where they can build resilience, like where they can fall down but not kill themselves.
Yeah, And I guess it's so tricky because there are obviously so like safety conscious these days, and for very good reason. I think it's if you could imagine and we can talk about you know, I don't know, the school environment or educcasionally or whatever, right, I think the focus becomes on a child falling down, parents get caught up, and that we're trying to stop that, rather than going, how can we cover from this really quick? I got a train on a train track? You know, Okay, we're
off track? How can we get back on track?
Like? What what does that look like?
And the first part about that is to acknowledge you're off track, And a lot of parents skip that right because they're like, let's just get back on track really quickly, or why do we even get off the track of the first place. We need to prevent this from ever happening again, rather than going you got off track, Like, let's sit with that. You got off track, that's normal, That's okay, all right? Now, what do we need to
do to get on track. So I think it's just being able to to sit with that, but then yeah, being able to continue on. And I think the issue with the resilience is what we think resilience should be. And if you think about I mean me, I could say I think their blood learns so much about resilience from just going through the PhD and knowing a lot of people would say, well, you're resilient.
Was that you've got it, But if you.
Were to see me doing it, most of the time I was struggling like most with me struggling right, me not knowing what to do, me wanting to quit, me not seeing a way out of it. And then obviously after those points I then found away. And so it was a lot messier than what I thought. And when I look back at, say, my school years, maybe it looks probably like I didn't care.
It looked like I wasn't trying.
It looked like I I probably wasn't even aiming high enough at all. And that's because it's that fear of failure, right, And a lot of kids will do that. A lot of kids you'll see and they're like they're not resilient because they're not even trying, or they just give up so easily. It's because they don't know how to come back from failure. They're too scared to fail in the first place.
So I think the more we.
Can have these stories so people actually succeeding, but part of that success was failing so much. You know, there's like famous authors, you know, JK. Rowling, all of those kind of stories. I think you're really helpful because then we realized, actually part of every one of these stories is struggle. It's failure, like that's normal, it's just not really.
One hundred percent. And it's like, you think about so the hard stuff you went through doing your PhD. You know, relationship ending so navigating that or the psychological emotional I
guess financial practical stuff around that. Then you know, raising or co raising your kids with your ex and then trying to build a business like you've done and then trying to you know, like, it's in that pain, and it's in that uncertainty, and it's in that discomfort, and it's in that unfamiliarity that you develop the capacity to survive and thrive. But if everything had been just a straight line, easy, like no peaks and troughs, just like
this beautiful linear every day was fucking Disneyland. When the shit hits the fan, which it always will, at some stage, you're in trouble because you haven't had to deal with anything hard. But you've done such good work in the middle of the hard that I'm sure your level of resilience and your capacity is way better than it was ten years ago, very.
Much so, because what you learn to then realize is like there or will never be perfect conditions or what I thought was perfect, you know, perfect conditions, actually say wasn't or isn't. So then what do I do. Do I wait for my life to be perfect at all those things? Or do I find these moments of joy or find these moments of being able to practice out values within this right? And I think a lot of the time we don't, like you said, get enough opportunity.
It's almost like going, I'll start the exercise routine in the new year when I can get a gym membership and I have time to do an hour long workout, rather than going I'm on holiday right now, I can actually go do ten push ups, like in the lounge room.
Like that's sometimes it's as simple as that, Right, And So I think when things change and transition in your life and you go through how stuff, you realize, Okay, I could wait for the storm to pass to do the things, or I could actually find ways within these imperfect conditions to live the life that I want to be who I say I am right and practice these things.
And I think that's where the challenge is. But that's honestly where the growth is to do it imperfectly and to realize that's probably how it's always going to be like in some ways right for us, not perfect conditions, but if we can learn to do it in imperfect conditions, then we can do in any condition.
So how greats are?
Yeah, it's so interesting, Like you talk, we talk about resilience a bit, and Paul Taylor, who's a regular on this show, wrote a book called I Think It's the Hardiness Effect. You know, it's all in the virtually in the same space. They're related, and you know, the bottom line is doing doing life in the middle of uncertainty and all of the things that I talk about, and the mess and the pain. But you can't get good at what you're not doing right, So you can read,
you can read all you want about resilience. You can read, like, you can read a hundred books on the piano, but you can't play the piano until you sit at the fucking piano and start touching the keys, right.
You can't exactly.
Yeah, you can read all the tennis books on how to have a great fourhand backhand outside your opponent, but but you've still got to get on the fucking tennis
court with a racket and an opponent. And it's the theory, it's like, and that's what that's the beauty, And I guess limitation of podcasts, the beauty is you and me, good conversation, hopefully lots of ideas and thoughts and stories and information that people can potentially do something with, operationalized activate, whatever you want to call it.
But the limitation is for many that they'll never fucking do anything with what they hear. And it's the same self help in general, personal developing, general development in general, behavioral psychology, like how many people know what to do but don't do what they know And it.
Becomes information overload in this day and age too, right, because we can listen to audiobooks and we can you know, summarize information, We can read all this things so far, and then where the implementation where the action? And I think often it's because we are looking for this perfect accent or this perfect plan, and it's then it's just taking this, like what is the next step I can do?
Like what can I this imperfect next step from what I've just learned to be able to Because ultimately, like you said, that's that's kind of where the change is since the action, it's not what we know at all.
Yeah. Yeah, So it's good talking to you, Doc. Thank you for getting up at stupid o' clock over there on the other side of the country. You're going away on a holiday. We won't say are we allowed to stay where? But next week you're going away.
For a Yes, I am. I'm going away next week, so that'd be great.
Well, you enjoy that, you enjoy your trip, and I'll say goodbye. We'll say goodbye af fair. But oh, before you go, how can people find you and connect with you and other educators and other people in the space that you're in. How can they see what you do and maybe connect with some of your resources.
On www dot doctor Samcasey dot com or on Instagram at doctor Samcasey. I share a lot of those. A little therapeutic playtips as well on my page.
You're the best.
Thanks Doc, thank you.