I get a turnacy you project. Doctor Jody's back in the house. Bloody hell. I get so excited when she comes. I can't sleep the night before, tossing and turning, throwing the doner all over the joint. I was up at three pacing just trying to get all my questions ready, trying to clear my mind, trying to be focused, thinking, Fuck, how can I harness the brain power that is doctor Jody, or as I call her, Joctor Dody. And I'm so excited she's here. Hi, Doc, how are you hey?
Hello? High Harves, Hi Tiv. I'm excited to be here too. I love it. I love chatting with you guys.
Well, we love it when you come along, Tiffany and Cook. Of course, the backbone, the fucking blood that throws flows through the how's my words going this morning? Not that good? The blood that flows through the typ veins? High Cookie, how are you?
Ah?
Some?
Very good?
Thank you.
I just put my teeth back in and soldier on. Yeah, that's what I do. Fuck it, there's no do overs here, there's none of that. Well, I'm looking out the window. It's nine point forty four on Wednesday morning. On twenty sixth in November and it's pouring in Melbourne. It's like, I feel like I may have to build myself an arc out of the bamboo in my yard at some stage if it continues that it's current, right, that bitch is torrential. Is it raining where you are? Tip?
Yeah, it just started. When we hopped on the podcast, I was like, Oh my god, what's happening.
It's very loud at my hair.
I have a loud roof when it rains.
What about in your penthouse in Tuac, doctor Jody? Is it raining there?
I wish? Yeah, it's raining. It is raining here. It sure is.
Oh well, I bet everyone's just fucking enthralled with this conversation. Wow, this is why I tuned in.
Can I say I want to I want to say something that I was reading something not so long ago, because you know how when people you sort of talk to people and they might say, how's the weather or it's been you know, it's a good days, isn't it, And that a lot of people will kind of like feel like, oh no, not the weather conversation, but that it's a it's a bid for connection that when when somebody kind of like says that they're not quite sure what else to say, and they're trying to connect with you,
And so now I lean into these conversations about the weather. If someone raises that when they're chatting to me, I'm like, yes, I know, like and I'll just dive right in and then usually the conversation moves away reasonably quickly. But I thought it was a nice way to think about it.
It's a nice little eyes breaker. It's a nice little kind of opening of the conversational door, isn't it.
Yeah? Yeah, And look what we've done today. We've done it. We've done it ourselves.
Yes, and the four people that are still listening are fucking just deriveted. So I want to we haven't actually done this for a while. I want to talk a little bit about anxiety. And I know we've in the past, we've had quite a few chats, but I feel like it's probably been the best part of a year where
we've had we've done an episode on this. And the reason for this is we yesterday did a gig in the city with Aria, the Aria Group, and I spoke to two people come up and came up and spoke to me afterwards, one specifically about mental health, including anxiety, another one about depression and anxiety. Really good conversations and really good questions, and it seems to be there's been just without opening the door too wide, there's just been a lot of stuff going on Planet Craig and a
lot of people's planets lately. But the intersecting of my life with many other lives that are going through some really hard shit, and in the middle of all of that, obviously is overwhelm and you know that cognitive overload and anxiety and just that what can be that internal mayhem? So I wanted to ask you a few things about this and just to maybe get a little bit of clarity around around because I feel like, firstly about how to navigate anxiety, but I think like anxiety is not
the same experience for everybody. Am I right? So it's probably in the same postcode, But what I interpret as anxiety might be a different psychological, emotional, and physiological experience to what somebody else interprets. Am I correct?
Look, it's like, well, when I say something's red and you say something's red, are we both saying the same thing when it comes to the experience of anxiety? It, I mean we know it's an emotion, and we know that for it to be anxiety, it has to tick certain boxes. But our experience of anxiety can be very, very different. Like one person can just be out of their head with worry and rumination and just spiraling and
spinning and can't focus, can't concentrate. Somebody else might just feel sick to the stomach and you know, just or it could be tension, headaches, the symptoms are so there are so many symptoms that your experience, my experience, to his experience, listeners experience can be different. But for it to be anxiety and not something else, you know, it
has to tick certain boxes. Like there's activation of the stress response, there's you know, the fight or flight response is activated, and it's because of the anticipation of a threat, not that you're facing a threat in that very moment. And so yeah, so that's a there, there you go. That's my answer to the question. Hope that clear.
I would I don't want to be I don't want to be contentious, but fuck it, live on the edge, jumbo, come on, be all you can be grasshopper, jump out of the nest and fly your little fat fuck all right, So I feel like anxiety is not an emotion. I feel like anxiety is a response to emotion.
Really, it is an emotion. Anxiety is an emotion.
Why is it an emotion because we feel isn't isn't anxiety? But isn't that a physiological response anxiety to to, Like, fear is an emotion, and might anxiety be the physiological response to that emotion?
Well, tell me about fear. Is if fear is an emotion, what happens when we're fearful?
Then it creates an anxiety response.
Well okay, so but when if you're fearful, what are you feeling?
Well, you're scared of something. But that's the emotional state. But I feel like anxiety is the physical part of the emotion.
No, I'm just done. Yeah. So with anxiety, there are multiple parts to it. There's the physiological arousal we know about that. There are all the sensations that come with that, the you know, the numbness, tingling, dizziness, feeling sick, headaches, worry, all that. Then we've got the behaviors that can come
with that, which is avoidance. We've got the emotions that accompany it, like the big feelings that come with it, which is tyrannous, aggression, maybe agitation, irritability, that sort of thing, and then there's all the thinking that comes with it as well. But anxiety, I take your point. I take your point because it's like the weather, it's got lots of things that contribute to it. Anxiety is the same, but it is considered an emotion. It is a feeling.
We feel anxious, but there's a lot of there's a lot of other things that are going on at the same time.
You don't buy it, nah, I don't think it's an emotion, Chatters, I feel like yes and no. So I asked Chatters before we came on as well, just to see, and then I looked up the dictionary and it says anxiety as your body's threat alarm, going off when sometimes there's no real threat. Like to me, that's talking about your physiology. But I think the answer is it's both. I think it's I think can read what's in front of you.
Tip short answer, yes, So I said, is anxiety and emotion? Short answer yes, but also no. Anxiety is an emotion, but it's also a physiological alarm system that likes to go off even when there's no fire. Think of it as fears, caffeine addicted, cousin, jittery, over prepared, and always convinced something is something ominous is lurking just off stage.
Our best outcome ever, we're both right, which is really good because we've both got fucking heaps of issues.
Well done, team.
Yeah, So Jodie, do you think that, Like, I know that a big part of your philosophy, which I agree with, thankfully, is being able to coexist with our insecurity without anxiety, knowing that it's probably for a lot of us, we're probably never going to have a life with zero anxiety, myself included. Should should that be our primary goal to learn to live with it? Or should we try to turn down the volume of it? Like is there any is there any thinking around overcoming it? Or commentering?
Yeah, look absolutely and yes yes is the answer to all of those questions that learning to live with it is, I'll start there, is that when we fight with anxiety, it's really important to know this. When you fight with it, you struggle with it. You do everything you can not to feel it, not to experience it. You make it worse, you make it worse, but you know it is. It's pretty like this is a simple idea but not easy
to do. A bit like meditation is that when you turn and face it and you welcome it as if you wanted it now, people will be going, oh, you're joking. It's like, well, you know, I'm not saying that if we could click our fingers and wave a wand we wouldn't rid ourselves of it, although it's very protective and
it serves us well in lots of ways. But if we can see it for what it is and have this understanding that it's like this alarm in our brain that's going off, you know, when there's there's no reason to be, you know, concern for our safety. It's just a trigger happy kind of system that we can we can train to respond differently. We absolutely can. So can we dial it down? Yes, something that people can overcome. Yes,
it is treatable. And you know, some people might have anxiety at a stage in their lives and really experience anxiety that's debilitating. Everybody experiences normal anxiety, but with you know, depending on the type of therapeutic approach that they you know, that they take on or that they follow, you can move through it, move past it, and then it's no
longer a significant kind of challenge. That said, there are people like my mum who has done everything you could possibly do, and it's just anxiety is just always going to be a significant part of her life, but one that I work with her to support her to make sure it doesn't. It's not sort of like a big stop sign that stops you from living. So yeah, like.
I wonder if you know, with some things like if you've got a nut allergy one. Now, I'm no specialist in this space. Probably surprised that I'm not a specialist in this but you know how sometimes they'll give you like a fucking a gram a microgram of a nut, and then they'll give you two micrograms of a nut, and then over time they build you up to now where your body is adapted and it can eat nuts.
So the thing that used to create a really bad physiological outcome, now it doesn't right because your body is adapted. And you know, like and I guess another one is with like a rachnophobia, people who are scared of spiders.
One of the things that they do, not everybody, but one of the approaches is like to start people by looking at a photo of a tiny, little, teeny fucking spider a photo and they do it from ten feet away, and then they do it from five feet away, and then they hold the photo and then eventually, you know what I'm saying, Then eventually they've got a fucking you know, a tarantula or on their face and they're loving it, you know. So, so that response has been reprogrammed over time.
I'm wondering if, like, if we identify the thing that causes anxiety or triggers anxiety, do you think there's a Is it feasible that we put ourselves through a form of exposure therapy and go, what's the thing that gives me anxiety or scares me and just doing a form of what I just described with the peanuts and the like. Is that possible where you go, well, this scares the shit out of me, but I'm just going to put my little toe in the water and then jump back. Is that a thing?
It is a thing, But you've got to be really motivated to want to do that. Like a lot of people would say, well, I'm scared of spiders. I don't cared to be anything else. I mean, again, wave the one yes, But do I want to put myself through that, and you've got to ask yourself, like what's motivating you and what's moving you so that you could make that commitment to doing it despite the anxiety that you're going to experience. But one hundred percent I did it with
my podcast. I was so I was just so overwhelmed with anxiety and every bone in my body said, don't do it. But I really wanted to because I really wanted to help in COVID, help people, you know, support them and you know, be there and do something and give back in a way that I thought would be helpful. So I was really motivated, and so I did that first. There was a lot of procrastinating, but I did that
first episode and then I did the second one. When I was first a guest for you, I was so anxious, Oh my gosh, And now I'm excited. I look forward to it because you learn through the exposure and look, obviously, being on a podcast like this, there's no dipping the toe in is there. It's like it's all in. It's like you're having a food combo or you're not doing it. Yeah, but you can do that.
Yeah, sorry, I mean that's the beauty though. Like, imagine if every guest that I have on like you and I are friends. I love you, I think you're amazing, You're great at what you do, which is why gratefully, I'm so grateful that you keep coming back. But if every time you have any opinion, I go, I agree, Well, then we're not having a real conversation. Yeah right. It's like you go X, I go, maybe Jody, but maybe why and you go, well, maybe harps, but maybe fucking not.
And I go, all right, well, let's let's unpack that. I mean this for me, this is the point. Part of the point of podcasting, especially what we do, is to have an actual conversation that could even be a bit fucking lumpy and bumpy, Like we're not trying to produce a Disney podcast where you know, we all live happily ever after. We're actually trying to do some digging and figure out what's fucking going on. And there's no
necessity for you and I to agree on everything. But what is interesting is when we did unpack the is it an emotion? Is it not an emotion? You go, oh, it's kind of both, And it's like that's a good question to ask, But like for me, one of the things is I think, because I feel like when we go so, you're probably going to have anxiety forever, or a form of anxiety forever, which I think for most people is true. I think there's always going to be
something to be anxious about. And also this is purely anecdotal, but my experience is for many people as they get older and I mean older older, like posts seventy seventy five eighty, anxiety can really start to ramp up. God bless my mum, but my mum could. If there's nothing to worry about, Mary will find twelve things right, and
you just I understand that. But I think like realizing that I'm always going to have fear, and I'm always going to have some fear of something and some anxiety about something, and I'm probably always going to self sabotage a bit, and I'm probably always going to overthink a bit, and probably there will be that will be a component of the Craig experience forever. But having said that, I don't want that to get in the way of my possibilities.
I don't want that to be the force or the influence that controls my choices and my behaviors like I want to be brave anyway, I want to be adventurous anyway, I want to get uncomfortable anyway. And I feel like this exposure therapy of doing the thing that scares me in an intelligent, strategic way, not a reckless way. Well, what's scared you, Craig? That might be worth opening the door on. And for you it was like, well, Jody, are you scared of Like, is there fear around doing
your first podcast? Yes? And so why Well, that's because your desire to do a podcast and help people and probably you know, build skill and understanding in this space called podcasting, and that probably overrode the fear. Doesn't mean you weren't scared. It just means you were courageous and scared. Does that make sense?
Oh yeah. I had a guest once who was talking about a parent that had the like a two kilometer radius from their house. They kind of didn't that was kind of like this imaginary line they couldn't go past. And my guest said to this patient of theirs, but what if one of your kids was in trouble and they were two and a half kilometers from home? What would you do? And the dad was like I would be straight there in a beeline in a heartbeat. And it's so it's kind of like, well, how how important
is it? And you know, if somebody's got a fear of a fear of dogs, it's pretty it's you know, like dogs are everywhere, like you know, you you might not want to overcome it, but it probably would be a really helpful thing to do. If someone's got a fear of chickens, you can probably go through life not really being exposed to chickens.
Chickens chicken so random, it's a thing.
I know someone who is really frightened when they come around here, and our chickens have to be in the pen. So there's there's some things that you're.
Like, yeah, tell you what, who needs to be frightened when I come around the fucking chickens because I love chicken. Those chickens better when I come over, those little motherfuckers better hide.
I'll let them know. I'll let them know. But yeah, but then, but you know, it's about what is important to you and you only only we can work that out, and and yeah, you're right, you're right. Helps we can do it for ourselves. Some people do this with the support of a psychologist somebody to sort of support them and guide them and you know, help them kind of take those steps forward.
Do you think that, And again, this is just an opinion everyone, This is not data or evidence or research. But do you think that for some people, doing stuff is a better way of overcoming anxiety than talking about stuff without a.
Doubt because you've got to get the experience of it. You've got to teach your brain that this is safe. And so that's only through experience you can know. You can absolutely know that if there's a spider on the opposite side of the room to you, that you are not in danger of being bitten by that spider one. But it's only but you can know. We can know something intellectually, but it's the experience of it that we
need to teach our brain that hate isn't dangerous. And that's why all the things that we've all done that have been terrifying, like speaking on stage, we all stand in front of hundreds of people with a microphone in our hands. Yeah, experience teaches you that it's a safe place and so yeah, you have to do it.
And how often is that true in all areas of life? Where it's you might know all the theory of how to create an outcome. You know, you might you might own a gym, you might be an exercise physiologist. I'm talking about myself. You might. You might know how to eat, how to train, how to lift, how to recover, how to sleep, how to optimize your own genetics. And at the same time, you're eating shit when no one's looking right, and you're telling people essentially lies because you're teaching them
to do the things that you're not doing. I mean that was literally part of my story for a while, where I was a guy who owned a gym, and I was one hundred and seventeen k so like right now this morning, well I haven't weighed myself, but I'm give to take eighty kilos. So I was essentially a fat guy who owned a gym who was telling people to do shit I wasn't doing. I understood the theory, I knew what to do, I knew why to do it, I knew how it worked. I just wasn't fucking doing it.
Or a range of you know, a range of reasons that we could but we won't go into on this show. But it's only when you start to operationalize or put into practice the things that you know that work, where you own up and step up. You know, in my case where I went, yeah, I'm full of shit everyone, I've got a fucking food issue, and so I'm going to do better. You know, it's like, and it might be you know not that's not an anxiety thing, but it's still a mental hurdle that I needed to navigate.
And I think that, you know, when I started to literally do different things. You know, when you it's like when you started to do the podcast right now you're a million podcasts in your fear response has gone, your anxiety responses, sorry, your excitement responses taken over. You know, you're the same person with the same potential, but now you're having a different experience doing the same thing because you were brave.
And that and that's that's a part of it. Like there, courage is a really big part of it, because it's it's not the easy road, is it. It's not the easy road to do something new, or meet new people or try a new skill or it's it's not easy, and so that's why you've got to really want it. You know, when somebody else is trying to tell somebody to do something, because I think it would be a
good idea. If we're doing something because someone else wants us to, you know, we it, it tends not to work out so well, it's got to come from us. But one of the things that I wanted to mention was that VR virtual reality can be used to help people in the these challenges of overcoming fears like of heights or flying and things like that, and just speaking to the point of we can know something intellectually, but
the experience is different. Like if you've ever put on VR goggles and tried to tell yourself, I know I'm standing on the floor, but you really feel like you're
standing on the edge of a fifteenth story building. Your body responds to the fact that it believes you're at that height, so it's yeah, it's really it's really interesting that VR can A lot of psychologists are using VR to help people move through and overcome challenges, to help them live a better life, a richer life, you know, and do that.
Yeah, I mean that's back to that. You're exactly right, and it's like your brain doesn't know the difference between perception and reality and pursuant to that where I'm just stumbling towards finish line and my PhD, which is Monash University. Shout out to Monash thanks for putting up with me.
I don't know you do, but fuck I love you. Specifically, Brain Park, which is the neuroscience Psychology, Neuropsychology neuroscience Lab, they've been doing lots of research using VR with people who are problem gamblers or have gambling issues, addictive issues around gambling. And yeah, so they put them in a casino.
So they put on these VR goggles and they go into a casino with money or a gambling environment, and yeah, they use that and it's yeah because and people know, but within a short period of time they get for
one of a better term. They get lost in the experience and all the normal things that happen in their brain when they actually gamble now start to happen when they're in this simulation, and that, Yeah, it's amazing that we can that we can create really experiences, you know, subjective, real experiences when objectively there's nothing going on exactly, No, you're actually not spending any money, you're not actually in
a casino. There are no cards, there is no rulette, there is no poker there is you know, there's no there's no sticky carpets and no beers, like, no, you're actually in a lab with glasses or with these complicated,
complex expensive you know, headset on your face. But yeah, and I guess that's the same with to an extent meditation and visualization and of course dreaming is that you know, when we're in you know, when you're in a dream and you're you're in it's in the middle of the night and you are in that dream or your emotional system and your nervous system and everything's in the dream with you. So as an experience for the sleeper, it's real. Yeah,
like you're not in the middle of a dream. Generally, I think when people go, oh, I know and I'm in the middle of a dream, or you're not really dreaming, because when you're fucking down the rabbit hole in a dream, there's no thought, oh, this is a dream. It's like, no, this is real. I am actually being chased down a dark alley by bad people with you know, with bad intentions. You know. So yeahest interesting to see what happens with that.
Moving forward with the treatment of fears and phobias, and that that ar VR kind of virtual world stuff.
And you're right to sort of point that out because with anxiety, there's there's I mean, there's social anxiety, separation anxiety, there's fears and phobias and generalized anxiety and so yeah, but if yeah, there's really good treatments and there's really good support. You know, anxiety is treatable and so yeah, so it's yeah, but the VR, like I I felt sick when I tried it because we had one that a friend brought around. It was a role coaster and
it was hilarious to watch people with it on. But yeah, past for me. Thanks.
What are the I don't know if you know this off the top of your head. I don't know in terms of the research, but your research, so the doctor Jodi University, Lad, what are the top three things that seem to be common denominators or sources of anxiety for people? Like? What what is the common like what makes the majority of people anxious? Is there one single thing? Like is it being hurt it's like being physically hurt or in
that is that number one? Or is it being isolated and loved unloved and you know, disconnected from emotional support or what is it?
Yeah, it can it can be all of those things. There are a lot of contributors to anxiety and when when you know, when we're so different in the way we experience it, but we're so different because of why
we experience it. And so you know, if you if you grew up, for example, in a household where there was maybe a parent with a substance abuse problem and you just kind of had to make sure that you tiptoed around, walk on each shells and not kind of you know, cause any sorts of reactions, then you become hyper vigilant. You become very very aware of the potential threat that could be being screened at, or being kicked outside, or being hurt. And so our experiences can absolutely shape
how anxiety sort of shows up for us. And why there's a genetic component as well. Thirty five to fifty percent of anxiety, you know, is genetic, and so that that's certainly a consideration. And temperament as well. You know, little kiddos who are quite shy, like you can there's a I can't remember it, halts. I used to know there was two things about temperament for young children, like KINDI age that would be possibly an indicator that anxiety
could be you know, a challenge for them. And so yeah, there's there's lots of things that you know, like even just gosh, watching the news, because you know, we can watch the news and as adults we might we will know that there is a war and it's a long way away for a young person who sees that. Like I know of a student in grade six who had
such severe anxiety. Every time there was a thunder, rumble or a plane that she heard, she thought it was a bomb being dropped because she didn't understand the distance that the war was away from where she lived. Right, So there's so many contributors.
I reckon this is Craig Harper theory. Let me run this by you and tell me what you think. So I think there's people are scared of unknown, uncertain uncomfortable, and unfamiliar. I feel like I call it all the uns. I go, it's all the uns. It's the uncertainty, it's
the unknown, it's the uncomfortable, it's the unfamiliar. We like certainty, we like predictability, we like comfort, we like familiarity, we like knowing what's coming next, and it's in that space of fuck, I don't know what's coming next, and I can't control what's coming next. Well I might put that on my list uncontrolled. Yeah, good one, harps, good work. You can weave that into something. But do you know
what I mean? It's like? Is that what like in the absence of certainty and predictability and familiarity, which is where most of us are anxious.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's true. It's it's I don't know what's coming and because of that, I I don't know whether or not it's safe. And that could be you know, obviously going going to you know, we get anxious about the things that we care about as well. Like you you're doing a speech at a friend's wedding, you're going to be anxious because you know, you've got uncertainty. But you've planned and you've got your script and you know what you want to say and you're in a trusted space.
But you know, so, Yes, uncertainty is a huge contributor and that's that. But intellectually we can we can know that the lay of the land is safe and that we can mostly predict what will happen. Some people have you know, the amigdala in their brain is just much more. It's bigger and more sensitive to threat. And that can be because of all of the things I mentioned before. And in that case, yes, uncertainty will be like a
trigger for it because you don't know what's coming. The brain's might be dangerous, and then the brain will say, let's not do it, and that conspiral.
I put up a post the other day which was comparing an academic and a regular human talking about this, and the academic said something like, my migdala just hijacked my prefrontal cortex, right, And the bloke said, I can't fucking think when I'm emotional, right, yeah, right, And it's true. It's like when we are emotional, like our cognitive capacity diminishes drastically. It's like, and so that's one of the biggest challenges I know. You know Paul Taylor with his
research on hardiness. I think his book's called The Hardiness Effect, you know, and we're talking about and it's in the wheelhouse of resilience and mental toughness and they all kind of intersect and relate. But yeah, being able to you know, because life is pressure, life is beautiful and amazing. But also there are times where life is pressure, life is uncomfortable, life is fucking unfair. Just take a look, turn on the news, just travel to another country. It's like, yeah,
life's not fair. Life's just life. And so our capacity to be able to deal with, you know, hard things kind of plays a big influence or plays a big role in the quality of our life. Because if if our default setting is everything needs to be comfortable, I can good luck trying to have any quality of life, you.
Know, and it just creates more problems.
I remember also specific to your you know, when you get up on a stage and speak and you start, you're nervous. Then six months later you're less nervous and
all that. So last year when I did my final what's called academic review for my research, so as you know, because you did it, but and as you know, because you're on panel, right, you like, the day before or two days before, I did a gig with five hundred people, and my emotional state going in was just excitement and I had to talk to five hundred people, had to talk for an hour without you know, an hour, no gaps, no fuck ups, you know, tell stories, be funny, be engaging,
share great insights, build rapport, read the room, do all of that shit that you do, like be funny, you know, don't be a dickhead and leave them wanting more. So when you go, they all go, fuck, that was great. I wish we could hear him again or something like that. Right, and great experience. And then and then a couple of days later, you and all the professors and boffins from Monash, you know, we're in my final review and so there's I don't know what there is a total of six people.
And I was so fucking terrified. Yeah, I was so nervous. I was so fucking inarticulate, and I'm like, oh wow, this is me talking to people yet in this context, I'm fucking terrified.
Yeah.
Like two days before, five hundred people for an hour anxiety zero. Yeah, this day I think I had my presentation was twenty minutes, you know, six people or whatever. It was four or five anxiety thirteen out of ten. And I'm like, oh wow, oh wow. And it's like, well, you know, it's just where, oh well, why is that, well, Craig, because you don't think you're very good at this, and by the way, you're compared to the other thing. You're not very good at this, and you're like in this room.
You know, you go to some rooms you're the smart one. You go to some rooms you're a fucking idiot.
You know.
In some rooms I go, I'm in fucking great shape. In other rooms, I'm just the old, skinny dude in the corner. It's embarrassed.
It's actually got thing to be in the room with people smarter than us. That's a good thing.
But that's the room I want to be in. That's the room we should all want to be in, I think, you know, or at least sometimes be in that room probably, you know, if your self esteems you know, like just go to the room of dummies for ten minutes and just pop up, you know, go to the fuck we room. And then what if you go to the fuck we room and you're the dumbest.
Oh, you're not feeling too good about yourself.
Unfortunately, It's always good to chat with you, doctor Jodie. Tell people how to you know, do all the stuff, find you, follow you, connect with you your cards, your new brilliant cards, tell them about them, tell them about your books. And of course your podcast is called well Hello, anxiety, which you partner with light FM or the Light? Do we call it the light now?
Ah? Yeah, yeah, it is the.
Light eighty nine nine point nine the Light.
That's it. That's it. I love chatting with you guys, honestly.
No.
Look, yes, the cards, the cards seventy card deck, the anxiety toolkits designed for parents, but so many psychology practices and educators, school counselors are loving it. So it's yeah, I'm really really proud of that. So you can just jump on my website and follow me on socials at Dr Jodi Richardson dot com Jody with an Eye.
And where can they get your books or where can they learn about your books?
Everything's on everything's on the website.
Yeah, right, could work. And Tiff, when's your book coming out? Tiff? Is that well underway?
Twenty thirty two, twenty seventy two.
I'll tell you what. That's going to be biblical, that's going to be wow. Wow. Just stand back world wait for that. I wonder I wonder if in twenty twenty two there'll be paper in the world. I wonder if there'll be I wonder if they'll be physical. What do I say?
Twenty twenty two.
That's been good, twenty thirty two. I wonder if there'll be physical books, so I wonder if everything will be virtual. I wonder if there'll be money. Do you think there'll be dollars? Do you think there'll be physical money.
I'm the last man standing that's still circulating cash, try, and I'm trying to keep it in the economy.
Yeah. Hey, Jodi tiv thank you, Thanks audience, Thanks groovers, thank you guys.