I get a team, so you project it's Tiffany and Cook, It's Kate, Mary, Veronica Loois Save. It's the project that's you. Will start with the pugilist, the box of the thug, the woman about town, Tiffany and Cook, the consumer of cookies, Kate Save, the dietitian and excise physiologist. I think also I might have something to say about that. Tiff Tell Kate about the cookies that you are not only addicted to, but try to get everyone else addicted to.
Incidentally, I just took someone to the cookie shop today, so I can still taste the cookie that Kate. They may not be nutritionally sound, but they are so nutritious for my soul. They are life changing cookies.
I'm wondering the other box, the other bucket. You know what is that? The fulfilling heart buckets?
Yes, yes, the important one.
I wonder if the joy and dough for me, and the euphoria that comes with those cookies offsets the calories and the sugar and the cellular damage. I wonder if it's in its own way despite being unhealthy. Maybe maybe it kind of comes out like equal.
Because cortisol is not healthy and I feel that just drop when I get one of those bad boys in my hand.
Well, it's pretty much the antidote to everything. Look at us trying to make science up as we go. That's that's how science works. Fingering her finger.
Yes, it's so great. I think there's something in that. Do either of you wear an or a ring?
No?
But I wear a garment, okay.
And so it looks at your different states, and it looks at your stress and your restorative time. Yesterday I eat said, oh, you've had more restorative time than usual.
I never watch TV.
And I sat down with my daughter and husband in bed and we watched All A Time to Kill and I just felt so lucky at the end that you know, it's a beautiful movie, it's a horrible movie, all those things. And yeah, so my restorative time went through the roof. So I think you're onto something, Greg. I feel like it could be maybe slightly offset if it can put you into that restorative phase, because that's healing for your body. So you'll have to check your checking amen.
Before Tiff jumps in, she's going to I think it's dose dependent, your honor, I think it. I think it depends on how many cookies gone Tiff.
Well on that. People used to say to me that my motto was if a little bit's good, a lot must be better, because anything I liked, I would have tenfold of it.
Well, this has not started on the nutritious thoughts, has it?
It has? Do you know what this has started on?
That?
This has started on the real world foot because this is normal humans deal with how much shit can I eat? Or how much how many cordatas can I have? Or how often can I have one of those cookies? Or I mean, to me, this is actually a good conversation because, like I say to people all the time, don't do what I do because I'm compared to the average, I'm extreme. Like for me, I'm not extreme. For me, I'm totally normal. But don't use me as a barometer because I'm a
fucking weirdo. So if you have a pizza a week, or three beers a week, or a wine every night, or a cookie once or twice a week that Tiff uses and recommends, or you know, or you have bee fit foods every second day not every day, or whatever it is, Like, I think it's trying to find something that works, not only physiologically and nutritionally, but also emotionally, psychologically and sociologically, because once it or not, food is way more more than just food, Like especially in Australia,
it's way more than and you know, we can all go well, if I put you on it And I used to say this to people, if I put you on an island and I only fed you this and that, and that's true, their body would change a certain way if they only had access to certain food. But yeah, I guess it's always a bit of a trade off Kpe.
Absolutely, And at the end of the day, if you feel miserable, that's not good for your health. If you feel in a stress state, that's not good for your health. So there's got to be some sort of balance there. But on the flip side of that, you've got to be conscious of your eating and you need to compensate unless you want to change. So if you don't compensate,
it doesn't evaporate. And I think you're both the most consistent people that I know with your training and whatever you do is consistent, not just your training but your podcast. Everything you do is consistent. And if people are consistently healthy, then whenever they have the other stuff, they compensate for it.
It's fine.
But if you don't compensate and you're not consistent the rest of the time, then you're in a world of trouble.
Hmmm. I think that's I think for the average person, trying to figure out what that balance is a really good question to ask and a really good kind of a little bit of you know, and equals one self research to go, oh, how do I Like I've told I've said this before, but like for about ten years maybe more, I would not have a fucking if somebody said I'll give you a hundred bucks to eat this crumb of cake, I would say no, right, I was
just and it wasn't about the crumb of cake. It was about my mind and my emotions and my reactions and my responses. Just like you would not say to an addict, just have a tiny bit of coke, or now, do you know what I mean, just have a tiny bit of coke, you know, or an alcoholic, look, just have a core of a glass of beer. Like, no one would do that. But and like here's the thing. If people who don't have food issues hear this, they'd go, well, you're just a fucking idiot. You got no self control.
I'm like, yeah, that's spoken by a person who doesn't have food issues. Like for me, food was as close to being a drug addiction as I would ever have, because I would eat food I didn't need. I would do things that I knew were self destructive. This is the same as addiction. I would lie about my eating, I would eat in secret. I would tell people to do things that I wasn't doing. I didn't follow my own advice. I wasted my own knowledge. I mean, that's
just all the behaviors of an addict, you know. But and you've got to get to the point where you go, well, I'm a bit full of shit. And so I think that you know, people trying to understand what is an operating system. I mean, obviously purely from a nutritional and a scientific point of view, then let's just look at micros and macros and energy and quality of food. Yes, but then beyond that, also you know what's going to work for you just practically moving forward, so you can
be pretty lean, pretty healthy, pretty operational. And also you can have a bit of this and a bit of that, but not forty times a.
Week, absolutely, and I think it's only when people get the scared or something. You know, they've got a goal and they decide they want to change, and they realize that change is so much harder than they ever imagined. I got invited to a dinner party the other night, but I was warned it was only two people and they wanted to speak to me about pre diabetes and talking about going on weight loss medications. I was like, oh,
here we go. So a couple of hours later we had a really insightful conversation, and needless to say, I'm not pro medication.
Over lifestyle because at the end of the day, if you are going to take any of those weight.
Loss drugs, the first thing you do before you start your script is strength training three times a week, have small, high protein, nutrie dense meals, and make sure that you're well nourished.
Then go on the drug. And what they.
Said to me is, well, if I was doing that, well, why would I need the drug. I'm like, well, good question, But can't I just go on a little bit? Well, actually, you never ever go off it. Do you ever go off your cholesterol, your high blood pressure medications, those sorts of things. No, And it's the same thing with a weight loss drug. People think that they can have a small dose, get the weight off, and then the weight will stay off, And that's not the way they work.
You are meant to be on them for life forever. So once you start them, you must also keep up your strength training three times a week and your perfect eating three times a day, because if you don't do perfect eating, you can only afford to eat a very small amount of food because you'll feel sick all the time, you'll have very small appetite, and you'll still have the same protein and nutrient requirements, you just won't want all
the other stuff. So if you're not prepared to do that for the rest of your life, don't start.
Wowser. Well, I mean see, and I guess playing Devil's advocate, I'm with you. By the way, I'm not a fan at all. And by the way, everyone, this is not medical recommendations or prescriptions by Kate Orchip.
I have no issues with people taking it, but that's the script that goes with the script.
That's the truth.
That's the deal. Yeah, I'm just like and I get it. I get it that it's helped some people, and I understand and I think that's legit. But also you know that I can't remember the numbers, but I know that there's definitely quite a significant percentage of the weight losses muscle like. Nobody needs to lose muscle like nobody. There's no benefit for anybody lose unless you're a bodybuilder who's one hundred and forty kilos and you just want to
get smaller. But you know, losing muscle mass is losing strength, is losing function, and if you're losing muscle mass, you're probably losing bone density. You know, there's a whole bunch of stuff that that potentially is going to happen. And when we look at, you know, weight loss as a stand alone, maybe maybe, But then if you look at some of the all the other stuff, the side effects, some of the physiological consequences perhaps over time of being
dependent on a drug. And while I know we probably have a lot of lesseners who use it, and so I'm not trying to throw any shade, but I also think, you know, me, as the like the student of human behavior, I just think, Okay, so now I the only way that I can stay in the shape that I want is I've got to take this drug now forever. When you think, well, what does it do? It literally makes me eat less food. Well that's what that's what other
people do, but without the drug. It's like, that's how I went from being a fat kid to a fit kid. Is I have my food essentially and increase my energy expenditure. And I lost thirty kilos and there was no ozenpic or no woogarbi or whatever it is. And you know it's like and it's not, Oh, therefore everybody should do what I did. But yeah, I just I don't know that mentally and emotionally it's a great thing either.
Can I answer this?
So at this dinner party conversation, I said, well, how much waste do you want to lose? And there's a beautiful friends of mine, so I know they don't mind me talking about this, and one of them wanted to lose fifteen kilos and I said, okay, well how much way to be lost? So far on the journey because they've changed all their habits, they've already lost five kilos And I said, following kilos is a lot to lose, and she said to me, or it doesn't, you know, it doesn't feel like a lot.
I've got a lot more to go, And.
I said, that is the equivalent of walking seventy thousand kilometers. Now I'm not very good at geography, but that sounds like walking around Australia to me. If it's about two.
Thousand kilometers from here to Queensland, would that be right?
Yeah? Yeah, like that too.
It wouldn't be to walk around Australia. That would be That's a long way.
Isn't it.
I don't know about I don't know about that. Seventy thousand kilometers.
Well, so you burn fifty calories per kilometer. Each kilo is seven thousand calories seventy.
Seven Oh no, yeah, right right, So a pound of fat is me do this? So akilo is seventy seven hundred. A kilo is seventy seven hundred calories.
Yep, seventy seven hundred.
Yeah. The problem with this maths is I know where you're going though. It's is that we burn different amount of calories per unit of time, per distance. There's just a lot of like me and TIF doing the same thing won't burn the same calories because I'm twenty kilos heavier.
That's right.
So at the end of the day, anyway, losing weight is much much harder than people understand. But the thing is, if you lose a lot of weight, you do change your metabolic rate. So if you were eating eighteen hundred calories or two thousand calories before, let's say you go on this drug for five years and you drop your twenty kilos. When you are twenty kilos less, your food requirement is significantly less, your metabolic grate is significantly less. So are you prepared if you do or you don't
come off the drug. And most people hope to come off the drug to have twenty five percent less food for the rest of your life, knowing that if you just eat good what you are eating now, you need to have good, but twenty five percent less less than that if you lose that much weight.
And that was a real shock because when you think you've got to your.
Limit of how good you can be and then you're told you need twenty five percent less than that because as your weight comes down, your metabolick great comes down.
With that, you need a lot less food.
And is that the lifestyle you want to live for the rest of your life, or is this number of weight that you want to lose just a number.
Is this just a fictional thing?
Are you actually going to be happy not eating much at all and being really careful all the time.
Yeah, Look, it's complicated because also, you know, you get a sixty kilo lady who's got very little muscle versus Tiff who's sixty kilos with a lot of muscle on
same height, same weight. You know, female female got to eat, gotta eat, got to move, got to sleep, got to be a human, so Tiff might And even if they had the same genetics, right, which ain't going to happen, But and if they had the same genetics, but let's say Tiff had exponentially more muscle, well her BMR, I mean her just getting through the day with her normal activity, and you know BMR could be three thousand calories versus
the other lady could be seventeen hundred, you know. And so yeah, that's the other thing is you want to keep you want to keep or build muscle as you get older. And I know we're taking a left turn, will come straight back, but you're listening to this and you're forty or older and you are not lifting weights or doing some strength training, then you are aging and
deteriorating at a rate that you don't need to. And I'm not being melodramatic, but if you're not doing something to hold onto your muscle or grow muscle and improve bone density and function and mobility and all of these things, there's an absolute inevitability of decline at a certain ish rate. But what we know is when you know, like I don't know, like Kate, you're very fit and strong, TIFFs biological age in terms of strength would have to be
like a twenty two year older lead athlete. Yeah, she's forty two, and that's not and I don't even I mean, you do have pretty good genetics, but but you train like a motherfucker. So that's it. And apart from you know, your cookie fetish, which we're putting you in therapy for.
But you know, would you take your calmps from your cookie over your spaghetti bolonnais. I'd rather have the bowl of bolinn Ai sauce and then have the cookie later.
She'd have both. That's the dumbest question.
I don't know the amount.
The thing is and I had to spend time realizing this myself. Is the changes I made gradually over the years towards a really great staple diet so that I could have cookies like that and just knock myself out. It's like I didn't acknowledge that along the way until I kind of looked at what other people ate all the time. I was like, oh, I'd never eat that. If I'm gonna eat that, I'm gonna have seven cookies.
Yes, yeah, yes, yes, yeah, I hear you. Yeah, I do think like that.
I like Vanilla s license, but I wouldn't sit down to like if I had Chinese, I wouldn't eat the whole bowl of rice as well as the I don't know, sizzling beef or whatever else, because if I wanted something Carby, I'd take it as my treat, not as my Yeah, anyway, what.
About you the other Well, here's the other thing, right, None of us three are representative of the average punter, do you know what I mean. I'm not saying better or worse. I'm just saying, you know, we all work in the health at fitness Space, we're all professionals. We're all a little bit mental and obsessed. Us three da Let's be honest, you know, So the average person ain't no Kate sab or Tip or fatty Harps. Right, that's
that's not the average person. So you've kind of got to look through the lens of somebody who doesn't think like you, or live like you, or to be able to understand a version of their reality. It's like, I'm fully aware when I talk about this to people that I need to try to understand what is an effort for them versus me, you know, because if I set my mind something, that's it. It's like I can literally change the fucking direction of my life in twenty four hours.
That's just how my brain works. You know. I can have a realization and go, oh, I'm not doing that anymore, and then I don't do it anymore, like from that day. But most people, and that's not because I'm bloody specially or anything. That's just how my brain works. But anyway, you sent me a message today, oh.
About the muscle though, you were saying, there's one important point. They say your volume of muscle in your body is directly related to your brain size. So if you are losing muscle unintentionally because you're going through rapid weight loss without a high protein diet and weight training a minimum of three times a week, you will be depleting your
brain volume, not just your body. So damage is irrepairable if you don't do it well, and some people do do it well, but if you're going to put in that effort, you know, it's consistency and it's every day, and.
People don't yet, You're absolutely correct. People don't realize even that lifting weights apart from the obvious, you know, bone density and strength and muscle and body composition. Also muscles metabolically active and so you know the same massive muscle versus fat muscle needs more calories so you can stay leaner with more muscle, which is a bonus. But also it's actually lifting weights in proves cognitive function, mood, dopamine production,
blah blah blah. Like I yeah, I feel better every time I lift weights, and not just from the satisfaction that I did a thing, but literally my brain chemistry is different and I actually feel happier.
There is actually a genetic predisposition as to whether you should weight train or more endurance, and I'm someone who gets more pleasure out of weight training according to this genetic traits.
I've done the big comprehensive one.
I love running, and I thought I was the euphoric runner, and that's where I got my dopemine. But genetically it's actually from weight training, which is interesting.
So I like great weight training, but I didn't.
Realize it's another way of that high that dopamine hit.
You should have a look at some stage, Tiffany and Cook will tell you. So there's an organization called pH three sixty is that what they're called?
I know?
And doctor Cam McDonald from Queensland. You know him, doctor cam exos physiologists man about town. You'd like him, you too, should have a chat, you'd connect. But he developed this whole model him and a team of which tiff is a coach and more knowledgeable and qualified in this space.
But basically where they look at how you should eat and train and kind of training and training times and types of food and the things that are going to relax you or not relax you, all based on is it five different smarter.
Types, six health types and then within that a whole subset of different very amazing. Yeah, it's incredible.
Can you just say the six health types.
So there's an activator that's myself testosterone driven. There's activator guardian crusader, censor diplomat and connector.
And what am I I feel like?
Am I a hybrid?
I feel yeah, I feel like you'd be like a guardian or a connector?
Right, what does that mean? So it's a little bit, you know what it's like.
It's it's it's like the what do they call those Miles Briggs tests or the oh yes, like a personality profile, but that also takes into account your biology and your physiology and it and a lot of it is based on the hormones that were predominant when you were an embryo, So how you developed, So what is your body built for so sort of exercise sprint training or strength training or endurance, which also then dictates obviously your personality traits.
It's actually really interesting anyway. But so you sent me a message an email and said something like which was hilarious because you've never sent me any message like this, and I just kind of bring it up. I can't it's a bit boring on the show, but it said something like, Hi, Craig, I'm angry, and I'm like, oh fuck, what have I done? I know I make a lot of people that I'm like, well, god read on, Craig.
But fortunately you weren't angry at me. Tell our listeners about the paper that you sent me and wherever you want to go, the research that's been done and what it tells us.
So most people would know or you have spoken to I believe on your show.
Professor Felice Jacko, who published The.
Smiles Trials, So she's the point oh one most cited professor in the world. So her study for anyone who doesn't know what the Smiles trial is, looked at whether you do counseling or you change the diet for people with major depression anxiety. And in the counseling arm they got six or seven percent remission from major depression anxiety. But the people that changed their diet went onto a Mediterranean diet, got thirty two percent remission from major depression anxiety.
She published that in twenty seventeen. I met her in twenty and nineteen.
And too quick. So what you're saying is people with anxiety and depression, let's just slow it down. So ones that had fucking hell once, I'm like, you're like a robot bro. So the ones that had just therapy, yes, it was six or seven percent remission. So in other words, it kind of resolved itself. All was fixed or was.
Seven percent of people yet resolved their.
Major depression anxiety and it counts one yea.
It was the placebo.
It was talking to someone and option two was going on a Mediterranean style diet and the thirty two percent of people that were of the people that went on that, it's thirty two percent of them got remission or put their major depression anxiety on hold.
I guess is the best way to say that's bloody amazing.
Well, you think about versus thirty two, that's four and a half times four and a half times. Wow. If that was a drug, that would be very, very popular. Okay, so we got it right now? Yes, not for so far, Speedy Gonzales, yep. Okay.
So then in twenty nineteen I met with Professor Felice Jakat and I talked about an idea of comparing whole foods as a meal replacement versus supplements as a meal replacement.
And the reason I was interested.
In this at the time I was working with a bariometric surgeon and the global standard around the world, not just in Australia, is to go on a meal replacement prior to weight loss surgery. Those meal replacements were one hundred percent a supplement based, so they were ready a chocolate shake or a chocolate bar, So they were completely synthetic, crude.
Yeah, with vitamins and minerals.
Now, that has been the gold standard for decades, decades and decades. There's lots of science on that, and I thought, well, why can't people do the same thing in the same macro nutrient.
Profile but with whole food.
And I wasn't very well supported with this idea because it hadn't been done before and there was no science, so it seemed dangerous.
And I'm like, how can eating real food be.
More dangerous than taking a man made product with a label on it that tells us this is what's in it. And it really got me thinking, just because we put it in a packet and we told someone what the macros were, does that mean that's something someone should be eating? You know that set that we made it, We put a sticker on it, you should eat it?
Well should I?
Well?
Who knows?
Actually?
So we made this whole food version of this, and needless to say, it took six years. So in October twenty first, twenty twenty five, I see on Professor Police Jacker's social media that this study has been published.
So what they found was there.
Was two groups of people and they were randomized to either going on the supplement diet or the whole food vled very low energy diet. So at eight to nine hundred calorie diet, these diets were matched for calories, they were matched for carbs, proteins, fats.
Micros, macros, they were completely matched.
Over the three weeks, both groups of people lost the same amount of weight, which is not overly surprising because if you think of calories and macros, that should make sense. But what was really surprising was the group that lost the weight on food versus supplements retained more lean body mass, so their gluteal muscle was maintained, whereas the gluteal or the butt muscle was lost on the people who took the supplement instead of the meal diet.
The second thing was gut microbiome diversity.
So there was a huge increase in diversity in the people that went on the food and there was actually a decrease. It was called a non significant decrease because it didn't.
Meet the zero zero point five P factor.
What is that you do, but it was a decline in gut microbiome diversity as opposed to an increase, and there was actually species forty five beneficial species found in the people that increased or they did the food instead of the supplement, and those bacteria have been linked to things like reducing inflammation, improving cholesterol profile, which is then linked to a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease as well, amongst lots of other things. Now, the third finding, so
the first one's muscle mass, second one's gut microbiome. The third one is leptin stability. So leptin is our hunger hormone. It's secreted by fat cells, and it's supposed to tell us that we're full if we have lots of fat cells on board. What typically was thought to happen when people went on a rapid weight loss diet, their leptin would become unstable, meaning their appetite would go through the roofs.
So once they stopped the diet, they would have this huge appetite and then they'd eat more food, gain the weight, and maybe be bigger than where they started. So on the supplement group, they found the leptin became really unstable, which would lead to perhaps people then gorging after the diet and regaining the weight that they'd lost over this period.
So the average weight.
Loss was between I think let's call it five five kilos. It was somewhere between four kilos and six and a half kilos. But the people that did it with food actually had stable liptin levels, so their appetite was controlled after the weight loss.
Yeah, well that doesn't surprise me at all. And the fact that the fact that people are using a meal replacement, which is a synthetically produced you know, wad of powder in a can or a box or a you know, a thing that looks like a chocolate bar, and then and then suggesting that your idea of well, let's have
whatever calories are in that can or that bar. Let's just do a whole food so we've got similar micros and macros or identical micros and macros, same amount of energy, but instead of a powder or a bar that got produced in a fucking factory, let's have like shit that's like action made, that's actually had a life, and let's you know, if that's whatever, if that's an animal or plant product. But the fact that they said that seems dangerous I'm like, what, how is that dangerous?
So this is not the professors who did the study thinking it's dangerous. This is the medical community. And now I understand how science works a little bit more, because if there is no science to support your idea, you can't do it.
Now.
Science costs a lot of money, takes many, many years to do, and who is going to fund whole foods when it's pretty hard to make a lot of money out of bloody kiwifruits and carrots. Someone's got to grow them, and you know it's never going to get cheap. There is no way to just pump them out.
Of a factory.
Whereas a synthetic food you get scale, you get volume, you get machines, you get ai robots. You don't need humans, you don't even need food in it. You can make it up. You can do chemical copies of these things. So the science wasn't there. And the surprising thing is this was the world's first study comparing a whole food, very low calorie diet to a supplement based very low
calorie diet. Even though all of the science supports very low calorie diets done with supplements, nobody had studied the other side of it, so I.
Just thought it was crazy.
So then when they've gone to get it published, it's taken a couple of years, and I don't know if that's normal, but to.
Me, I was like, wouldn't a journal jump on this?
And eventually it has been has been published in sal Medical Journal, which is an incredible journal.
Made by the people that make the Lancet.
The best journals in the world. But it took a long long time to get published. And when I've approached different networks to speak about this study, I've been declined being able to speak about it because the station are sponsored by of course, of course, and so they won't talk about it. It will affect their sponsorship contracts. Therefore, humans and not allowed to know that if you eat real food you will be more successful than supplements because the supplement pays for the station.
So you cannot talk about that. This is science.
Done by a university, not we have not done the science. It's not beefit food, it's not necessarily it's not you know, it's no one.
No one owns this. The university and the staff own this.
That's an ongoing challenge. Kate is like, and there are you know, there are many, many, many instances of this where there would be some fucking amazing research. But if the theory or the hypothesis proves to be true, then that's going to cost someone a lot of money. And as you know, to do the research, to run the research, to do all the testing, to get ethical approval, all
of that takes money. And who's going to finance that? Yeah, when you know some massive organization, profit driven organization, which is how the world works. I'm not mad at profit everyone, I'm not mad at commercialism. You know, we've got sponsors, I get it. But yeah, this like ethical research ironically versus you know, commercially interested research, commercially driven research. I mean you think you harken back. In fact, I spoke about this briefly today at my gig in the city.
I can't remember exactly who, but who the sponsors were, but Ansel Keys when he did what was called the twenty one country study or twenty eight country I forget, and it ended up being where he eliminated the bulk of the data that basically.
Didn't support his hypothesis.
In bodies I proved that his theory was bullshit, and then he kind of scraped some a couple of some data together to try to like all of the stuff that didn't support his hypothesis, which was most of it he eliminated. So they just pretended that didn't happen. And then they, because they were funded either by the wheat wheat industry or sugar industry or maybe both, you know, they came up with this whole low you know, low
fat eating equals low fat humans and whole theory. And then we saw with that, which was all financially driven, we saw an absolute correlation, if not causation between the incidents of obesity. When the obesity started to climb and the low fat eating began was basically the same fucking day. So and this is the thing, and this is why I think, you know, and I feel a bit weird saying this sometimes, but like I say to people, if you want to listen to my research and my PhD
in my findings or you don't, I understand that. But here's the thing, Like, there's no financial incentive for me. I didn't care what the outcome was. I don't care. I'm not financially incentivized to produce a specific result. I just wanted to see what the research would tell us, right, But there is a lot of research done where that university or that team, they are dependent on the financial support of the people who are getting or who are very interested in the outcome of the research.
Or they won't get out of funding, will they will?
And I mean, like people think that science is this flawless fucking thing. And while the intentions, I think for the most part are good, and I think most science is somewhere in the ballpark of ethical, but you've got to remember that all science is run by scientists. All scientists are human. All universities that I know of are profit driven. You know, they make money, They charge people
to be there. They've got enormous bills. I don't know UNI's not for profit anyway, but you know, it's like where money and profit is involved, it's very rare we're going to get this kind of totally ethical objective, no influence from any external kind of force research.
So there's one side of it why we might not get the research. But let's say this research that you dream of has been done, Nobody will bloody read it.
It's not the Herald Sun or the Age or the frickin' you project podcast.
There is no journal that the average person subscribes to.
They can't even read it.
Like you said, the study was eight hundred pages long. Sorry I couldn't read it before the podcast. Like people aren't reading journals. If news reporters and people that are in the media won't talk about it, what's the point of doing the bloody study after all?
Because it's been buried.
Yeah, well that is, I mean, yeah, so you're doing it. You're doing what you can. We're doing what we can. But it's it's and that's probably not going to go away anytime soon. And I think, you know, what people get to you know, even like I think the University of South Australia at the end of twenty twenty three, I think was did to study UNSA UNISA did a study looking at the efficacy of exercise versus antidepressants for
people with depression. And of course I'm going to tell you that, you know, the exercise outperformed the drugs by a fucking outstanding a margin and percentage, and that got about seven seconds of media coverage because it's an incredibly profitable industry. And by the way, of course, I mean, you know, go for a run or go lift weights or versus take a pill. Well, I'll just take the pill. It's not as good, but it's you know, and look,
and there's no judgment in that, I understand it. But when you go, this thing that you can do is better than any pill on the planet, any medication you can take. There is nothing as good as this protocol. It just happens to be called exercise.
Alongside with the diet, with the smiles trial. You put the diet in the exercise together.
Yep, yep, yep yep. And like you think about, like what is a pill? It's something you're putting in your body. What is And this is not an ad for Beefit Foods anyone. I don't. I'm not sponsored by Kate. And even when Kate sent me an email, shit, I don't even care if we don't talk about our company. But whether or not you put beef fit foods or you put one in two it's cookies, or you put a fucking pill in your body or whatever, it's something you're ingesting.
And so there's going to be a reaction. There's going to be a physiological consequence, there's going to be an interaction. It's going to work well, it's not going to work. It's going to make no difference. It's going to make a lot of difference. So too, when you do something to your body, I am going to lift weights that's interacting with your physiology. Well, I'm going to go for
a run that's interacting with your physiology. You're doing something to that thing that you live in, and there's going to be an outcome. It could be good, it could be inert it could be significant, insignificant, it could be
fucking mind blowing. You know, I know hundreds of people who physically and mentally and emotionally are better than they used to be by a long time, a long way because they just work out whereas they didn't used to work out, And they're not Jim junkies, and they're not obsessed, and they're not weirdos, and they I train four hours a day. They just do their little thirty to sixty
minutes of something every day. But they're consistent, and their depression's gone or it's less, their anxiety is gone or it's less. And I'm not talking about four people I know. I'm talking about fucking hundreds of people. Over the years that I've been doing this and not only that, relationships get better, confidence get better, energy gets better, interactions get better, work gets better, because now I've done this thing to
my body and it all works better. And when my body works better, my emotional system works better, my brain works better, My fucking life is better, you know. So now I'm on my side box. It's true, though, isn't it.
Oh, it's so true. It's so true, and I must think.
The main time this happened for me is after I'd given birth to my first child, and you have.
Sleep deprived, I'm trying to run.
I only had one business at this stay, but I had twenty three stuff and I'd gone downstairs because my baby had not stopped screaming for two and a half hours and I hadn't slept, and I took the carrier with me, and I put her in the carry out and I put on my headphones, and I got on the treadmill and I ran it fifteen kilometers an hour until I felt like I actually started bawling my eyes out, crying because at the moment that I took my baby downstairs,
I could not feel love for that child anymore, because I was breaking, I was tearing apart with what I look back on might have felt like, might have been postnatal depression.
I don't know.
It was just no sleep, screaming child, and pressure upon pressure for work. And I know that within I can't run fifteen kilometers an hour on the treadmill very long, so it probably was no longer than a couple of minutes. I got off there, balling my eyes out, feeling so grateful for my baby, and I realized that I hadn't exercised for six weeks or something since having the baby, and I needed that chemical I needed that hit from the treadmill to make me feel normal.
Yeah. Wow, that's a good story, dude. Well, think about like everything that we do to our body creates a chemical biochemical response. Like laughter changes what's going on in your brain. Laughter changes what's happening in your nervous system, changes what's happening in your gut, changes what's happening with your bloody immune system. It's like that's just laughing.
Yeah, yeah, you know, And then there's sunshine, and then there's quality sleep, and then there's somebody. Then there's tip line on the floor with a fucking furry friends. You know.
It's like, I mean there are so many things, great things that we can do to our body and for our body that don't require a pill, which did not say you know, medication doesn't have a place. Definitely does yeah, but it's like, yeah, well it's you know, what's going on with you?
And is there another option other than that thing in that container?
Absolutely, And like you said at the start, there's probably a lot of people listening that are on a weight loss medication. And the thing is we need to support them because they've taken action, they've done something, but a lot of them are missing the education that goes with that pill, the weight training minimum three times a week and eating perfectly portioned, high protein, nutrient dense, fiber rich foods. Otherwise I'll be constipated as hell, lose a heap of
muscle mass, and have no energy and no micronutrients. So the hair will fall out, their nails are turned to crap, the skin will turn to crap, and their brain won't work. So the people that have taken that step, good on them. But know that that's script comes with a lifestyle script. And if you have not been given that lifestyle script, pedestal back to Cray to make sure that he's reminding
people that. On every episode, I hear you talk about exercise and food and health and sleep and sunshine all the time, and they need to be hearing this because.
It's not optional. You put that pill in your body, it is not optional.
I mean, we're going to wind up, I know. But this is what I do. I go, what's the best thing I can do for my body? And then I do that. I do that. Yeah, you know, I go, oh, is this better than that? Yeah, well that's better. Well I'll do that then.
And people that are injured, what would you say. I'd say, do the things that you can do. It's like people go to me, I've got a ninja and ankle.
Well, I go, I can give you fucking six hundred exercises that you don't need your own. So next, you know, it's like if you and look, it's not about like yesterday, I had to drive for five hours. I had to go see my parents then take them up. I had just had a mental day and it was just, you know, crazy busy, and it was a strength training day for me. And I got home at stupid o'clock and I was fucked and I went, I'm having a day off, right, But it's a conscious decision and it's not like, oh,
I'm being lazy or I'm being soft. It's like, well, Craig, you've been You've done a million things. I'd already walked my ten thousand steps for the day, dah da da da, and I just went, ah, I'm not doing it. And then just before before we did this, I walked to the gym down the one close by me in Hampton and I just lifted some shit. Felt great, and I'm back. You know, it's not about being obsessed, like you're gonna have days off, You're gonna have You're gonna have meals
where you go. I'm going out and it's my Whoever's party on Saturday, and I'm gonna cut lose a little bit. I'm not going to be a maniac, but I'm gonna yeah, great, great, but don't cut loose for the week. You know. It's like it's like just trying to build a healthy relationship with your body, but also making healthy and practical choices in real time as we navigate you know, being humans, Yeah, navigate being a human? Where can people find you and follow you?
Kate hate save on LinkedIn or Instagram or beefitfood dot coms that you or around, beef it Food Australia Instagram.
And Kate didn't ask me to do this, but I've had quite a few of her meals and they are fucking great. So if you're in that space and you think I don't know which ones to get, like because there's so many and this, so you can buy like meals that look like, oh, this is healthy and then run out by Bucks and it's like, ah, I say what because I'm embarrassed. I wasn't going to tell you this, but fuck it, I bought. I bought a couple of things that kind of looked I'm like, oh, this is
not bad. It's like a bit of chicken. I got it. I don't know what the chicken was, but it wasn't fucking chicken.
It was chickenish. It was chicken ish. I'm like, this ain't chicken. This is like chicken flavored something. And the amount of it was like chicken and rice sate or something like that. Well, let's say the thing weighed four hundred grams, there would have been twenty grams of chicken in there, chicks around eighty grams of rice and this horrible sauce. I'm like, and that's why I don't buy this anyway.
It's called value apparently because they weigh it by the gram in the supermarket, and the heavier it is, the higher value it is, and it goes down, down, down. Wow, fill up the trolley for less.
Yeah, boom, Tiff, it's been great.
Thanks Harper. Shout out to Beefit Foods, Protein Bulls. They're real good. I ate all seven in the one day. They come in a box of seven.
It'd be good for your gut.
House launched cookie and providing you'll probably be on the toilet.
I've never had I've never had one, but I mean, feel free to just shuffle some way. We'll say goodbye. Thanks Kate.
Thanks