I'll get our team. It's the project that you. It's Kelly, Kelly Smith, Tiffany and Cook. Kelly. How are you.
I'm good, I'm good. Thank you. Nice to see you both.
Nice to be seen. What's going on over at Smith Central?
Smith Central? Well, look, work is ramping up. It's the end of the year, so there's lots of things going on there, and I've been doing homework. I've prepared for today's episode, which is a bit unusual for me. I'm not just relying on overthinking. I jotted a few things to have.
Well, look at you like a bloody prep gangster, just getting ready with the Imagine if you'd spent all that time writing out your questions and they were no good.
Look, there's still that possibility. I haven't read them to you yet.
I'm sure they're brilliant. I'm sure they're brilliant. Before we jump in, how have you been watch news on Planet You? I saw you the other day. You walked into the cafe I was in. You look like a bloody you know what you look like, and I mean this is a compliment. You look like like about a fifteen year old boy who was about to go and do graffiti somewhere that's kind of what you look like. I was beaming for that.
So I'm glad I hit. I'm glad I nailed it. Absolutely.
I don't mean I don't mean you because obviously a woman, but it just the outfit. It was like very cool. I'm like, yeah, had that kind of street vibe about it. So well done you.
Thanks. I won't tag offense now, So that's all thank you.
All right, Well, let's let's start. What do you got for me? What have you been thinking about? What's what's what's been kind of cart wheeling around that brain of yours?
Well, this is from a few episodes that I've been listening to of yours, and I thought, how do I kind of group these questions together? So there's three questions all up, and I kind of thought of them as being like the in between bits of a growth journey.
And what I've been noticing in the podcast that I listened to, and I think you touched on this last week when you were talking to Ian, how it's either a kind of hey, welcome, you know, here's where you start, Here's how you take the first step of developing, of learning,
of growing, or it's like Hey, here's a textbook. There's no kind of in between of hey, you're progressing, this is what happens at X point, this is what happens after this, And so kind of lumped in with that is, well, what happens when you get to a point of I'm ready to release a certain part of my life. I'm ready to give up something that's not aligning with me. Is it normal to feel loss, sadness, potentially grief.
Yes?
And then from that point, how do you get to and this comes from your episode where you were talking about your shit week, how do you kind of stop? I guess the wind in your sales enough to go? How am I able to be the best version of myself for the people around me?
Wow? There's a lot in that. So I'm just going to tackle bits at a time. I'm sure I'll forget some of it, but so bring me back. So when you said learning, I'm thinking about, like I say to people, what do you mean by learning? Because there's going to school and memorizing stuff that you never use. Maybe that's learning, but to me, it's really just memorizing shit you never use, you know. So I've got to like, once I learn something if I have to study something for a test,
I almost never need to use it again. But I also never really forget it. So I can tell you, like the five adductor muscles that are inside the FEMA, right, which nobody accept me in Australia nose off by heart and you'll never that's not true. I'm sure there are a bunch of people, but not too many. Right, all of these things that I learned for exams and tests and stuff. Where I that you go, is that is
that going to help me navigate life? Or is that going to help me grow a learn or evolve or adapt? Is that that kind of it's really just almost downloading knowledge. But for me, learning is growth. For me, learning has changed. For me, learning is adapting, it's it's evolution, it's transformab that's learning. That's and so I think I think that
probably academic learning is held into high a regard. I think it's on this kind of almost this egotistical pedestal of which sounds funny for bloke doing a PhD. By the way, if you've done a PhD, well done. I think it's a great achievement. I think getting any qualification or degree or diploma is a great achievement. I'm not
saying these are not good. But we all know people who are fucking brilliant who finished school at year nine or ten, who have incredible knowledge and wisdom and intelligence and insight and understanding, who maybe couldn't even explain it to you in an academics or a scientific kind of sense, but they know the answers to question. They can solve problems in real time. You know, they can build rapport and connection and trust and respect with people despite the
fact that they've never studied human behavior per se. They've never studied communication or metaaccuracy or metaperception like I have. They but they're just fucking great at reading the room. They're great at reading people. And that's partly a skill and partly a gift, and partly something that they've developed
over time. So and what I found interesting about Ian was, and I have an interesting factoid that I can share with you about him, because he was explaining to me this whole kind of paradigm that he's operating within, and that he's developed this model for working with primarily men and then down the track women around mental health, and everything that he said was really smart, really evolved and really aware and really informed. And this doesn't matter at all.
But he doesn't have any in inverted commas qualifications in that space, which just proves that. You know, now, that doesn't prove that being qualified in that space is redundant or not good. It doesn't mean that at all. It just means that there are people out there who have got actually great insight, knowledge and awareness who can probably help people even with psychological and emotional issues, who aren't
in inverted commas qualified. And I just think qualifications are nice, but don't think that that means that somebody that doesn't have a qualification in that particular field doesn't have insight or wisdom regarding that particular area of human behavior or performance or whatever it is. I will tell you something interesting about him, and you wouldn't pick this up by listening to it. His dad when we recorded that was dying and he was finishing the podcast and going to
the airport to get on a plane. I haven't spoken to him since. I'm talking to him tomorrow the next day I'm doing his show, So I don't know what the outcome was because I gave him some space, But like his dad was literally at death's door when we were recording that, and I went, wow, this is somebody walking their talk, you know. And he wasn't disconnected and he wasn't pretending it wasn't happening, and it was fully aware, but just and I gave I said, mate, let's not
do it. Let's like we'd do it another day. Like it's like, well, I have this time, so let's do it, you know. So yeah, I found him very impressive. Sorry, I feel like I didn't answer some of your question.
No, And I think that's good though, because and he was he was really impressive. And you know, I messaged you and said, you know, even though his content was more aimed at dudes, like I got so much out of it. And I think that really goes to what
I was asking about, like the in between. So you don't necessarily have to be, as you say, qualified in something, but there does seem to be a gap in is it content or what people are sharing in terms of it feels like you either need to be at the beginning or so far down towards the end of a
growth process that the middle part is almost overlooked. And with what you just said about him, like that's absolutely you know, being able to kind of stop and go, well, how can I be the best version of me for who needs me? Which is the other point that you were talking about as well. So yeah, that answered it.
I mean, like, I never say I'm good at anything, because I'm not naturally you know, everyone's heard me bang on about what a shit athlete I was, and how genetically gifted I wasn't, and how academically brilliant I wasn't, and all of that. But the one thing that I was naturally quite good at, there's only one, and that was what I'm doing right now, which is communication, you know, And that's a pretty good thing to be naturally gifted at. But I remember doing things as a kid where I
had no idea of what I would like. I didn't have a strategy, I didn't have any I didn't have any rationale behind what I was doing. Nobody had taught me or coached me. I wasn't educated in building rapport, connection, trust, you know, communicating effectively, reading the room, understanding anything about theory of mind, how someone else is thinking, understanding the
context of objective and subjective. I didn't even know what those fucking terms were, but I was operating with that awareness and that kind of understanding before I'd done one second of research or study in the field of psychology, you know. So I definitely think that we you know, we all have different gifts and we all have different kinds of intelligence. There are some people who go to art school for ten years and their art is you know,
six out of ten. And then there are some people like my dad, who won multiple art shows, never got taught anything in his life, never had a lesson, and would paint a picture of for example, tiff and it would look like a fucking photograph. I'm like, how do you do that? And seescapes and landscapes and animals and so his stuff was very realistic, not surrealism, and not abstract. But nobody ever taught him or trained him, but he
just had this kind of intelligence, this creative intelligence. So yeah, I think both. I think acquiring knowledge and just putting it in your cognitive kind of filing cabinet and then not using it. I don't know, I don't really see that as learning. I see that as just downloading, you know, data, and I don't see the value in that. I don't see the value in knowing things that you don't operationalize or you don't use in some way like what's the
point you know? I mean, yeah, maybe maybe, but in general terms, I want to learn things that are going to help me do better, create better, serve people better, navigate life better. You know?
Yeah? Do you? And this is the question for both of you in terms of that, like do you find that with what it is that you either listen to, read, whatch or engage with? Like do you dip in and out when it's not serving that purpose for you? Like I find I can be on a streak with certain podcasts or books or something and then just kind of go, oh, yeah, this is it's I need. Like a few weeks ago, I thought I need something I can just laugh at because this is all getting a bit deep and a
bit too a bit too brainy. So yeah, do you guys find that?
Yeah? I mean I've said many times I listen to Rogan, and I've listened to Rogan since before I started a show, right, So I listened to Rogan when he had very very few listeners. And you know, some of his guests like my fire and some don't. It's not that it's not a good conversation or but it just it's not for me. And I understand that people dip in and out of the You project. I would too if I was a listener. There are some people that listen to every episode what
the fuck is wrong with You? But I love you nonetheless. And and then there are some that you know, depending on what the topic is or who the person is. I listened to a guy the other day called Palma Lucky, that's his first name, Palma Lucky l U c k e Y, who created a thing called Oculus Rift, which were they're kind of one of the first versions of the best version of VR goggles. So he's a tech guru.
So by the time he was either late teens or early twenties, he was a billionaire, right, And I know fuck all about technology, as both of you know and our listeners know. And he was in and in our builds weapons for the US government. And he's still young, Like he's a young dude, right, And I listened to three hours and I was just fascinated with how he thinks.
I'm fascinated with how people think, how their brain works, what excites them, how they And this dude was like if you saw him down the street, and I mean this with love and respect. He's not an impressed It's not like, oh my god, look at that amazing human. He's just a regular dude doing crazy shit, who's curious
and obviously pretty brilliant and all of that. But yeah, some of the things that I listened to, like the content, what they were talking about, how he develops and designs and builds technology and the roles that that technology can serve for the general public and the military and all. That's fascinating. But just listening to him, how he you know, how he started a company when he was thirteen and fourteen,
and how he just I love that stuff. I love stories, stories that I can learn about the person, you know, through the story, and also just listening to how people think and how they function and how they navigate life. Because I found him fascinating and he's nothing like me, so not like so much more interesting than me. But yeah, but I jump in and out of certain shows. I don't listen often to what people think they think I might be all like rah rah, inspiration, motivation, psychology. I don't.
I really don't listen to very much of that at all. I love I love stories. I love I love humor. I love. I love listening to stuff that I do not understand or know about. Sometimes it depends. Yeah, I just listened to a whole series of books, The Terminal List, and before that, the whole series of The Gray Man, just about Tier one operators, and especially The Terminal List that's written by a guy called Jack Carr who was
a Navy seal. So all of the all of the language, and all of the technical kind of stuff and all the warfare stuff and the tactical stuff is very, very realistic and insightful. And it was like just getting a, you know, an undergrad degree in how the military works, because I listened to I don't know what it is, twelve books and they're all like, you know, fifteen hours twelve times fifteen is one hundred and eighty that's one hundred and eighty hours of education, you know. I'm like, yeah,
and it fucking fascinated me. And I just think, firstly, and it's ironic because I hate war. War was fucked. I hate it that humans kill humans. I hate it that we haven't sorted that out yet. But at the same time, it's the way that it works and the way that you know, like like it or not, Australia has to have an army and a navy and a defense force because if we don't, we get attacked, we're fucked. So that's the way the world works. So you can't go, oh,
we're not doing defense because we're good. Luck with that. Well, pretty soon you're going to be overrun. But nonetheless, I'm sorry, I digress, but I loved it. It's interesting.
So just on a tangent of that, then, like, how did how did you then, like compare that to listening to the dude who created the oculus and is now designing weapons like that would have been quite an interesting contrast.
Yeah. Yeah, So, I mean, these are just things that I don't really know a lot about and I'm fascinated with. I was going to say smart people, but I don't necessarily mean IQ smart. I just mean creative people, clever people. Yeah, and so it's that, you know, there's no sometimes there's no rhyme or reason with what I find interesting, and people would be maybe surprised by the stuff that will
keep me engrossed for hours at a time. But yeah, and then I'll you know, like I listened the other day to Aubrey Marcus talked to a guy who used to be a Christian. Right, this is how different is this?
Right?
So he was a Christian and now he's a follow of Jesus, Right, And you go, well, what's the difference, And he's like, well, he's actually quite anti Christian now, in the sense that this dude feels like a lot of Christians worship the Bible more than God. And then I'm like, oh, this is an interesting conversation. I don't know if I agree or disagree, but I'm interested. So then I listened to two hours of him explaining the difference between his kind of theology or philosophy and how
it came to be. His dad was a pastor. I think he was a pastor in a church himself or a youth pastor. He grew up in a very Christian, very theologically like profound family and environment, and he kind of did a left turn. And he's still all about God and love and compassion, but he walked practically and strategically through the bits of the Bible that don't really
make sense. And the problem is that when you are completely intertwined with an idea or a theology or a philosophy or a dogma or a practice or a way of eating or a way of living or whatever. When that becomes your identity, then it's almost impossible for you to learn new things regarding that area of whatever unless people are endorsing your current thoughts or your current beliefs, because when they attack or question or even are unsure about you know that thing, well, then you feel like
they're attacking you because they're questioning your identity. And so for me, I try really hard to listen to things that I don't agree with or I once didn't agree with, or might challenge my thinking. So, you know, for example, Matthew Mark Luke, John the first four books of the Bible, or all Gospels. Then after Max there's a book of called Acts, and then there's a book Romans, so Romans, Corinthians, Galations, Ephesians,
Ephesians one and two, Philippians, Thessalonians. All of these books that followed the Gospels were written by a guy called Saint Paul. Right, he probably heard that he's written these written by St. Paul's Letter to the Romans, Saint Paul's Letter to the Corinthians. And it didn't really I never really thought deeply about the fact that when Jesus died, Paul had never even met him. So this dude that didn't meet Jesus was writing all about Jesus years after
Jesus died. And I'm like, yeah, that's actually a good point that this dude's making. Now, I'm not saying that so it's all bullshit. I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying, Oh, so, Saint Paul apparently met Jesus on the road to Damascus, which is obviously a place back in the day, and he had a vision, he had an encounter via a vision of Jesus and anyway, this whole thing, right, and so he had a vision, then he had this personal experience blah blah, blah blah,
and all of these subsequent books came out of this. Right. Anyway, I know, I'm fucking banging on and everybody's probably falling asleep. But this was quite confronting to me because it really challenged my thinking and ideology and theology. And it's in those moments where people go, actually, Craig, what you thought could be wrong, your beliefs about this could be wrong, and because like what this and it's not like, oh so I'm jumping ships. Now, I'm just like, oh, I'm
listening and I'm considering. So, you know, the challenge of being truly open minded and truly teachable and truly objective, it's pretty impossible, right because the Craig experience is a subjective one. But at least having an awareness of your bias, having an awareness of your echo chamber. For me, that's the start of being more aware and more objective and more open. Steps down off soapbox.
That's interesting. So a friend of mine a while ago, when there was a big election happening, I was very set on I'm voting for this party because that one over there I do not agree with, I will never agree with, can't stand them, won't even look at them. And he said to me, well, how do you know if you're not actually immersing yourself in what it is
they stand for or what it is they're saying. And so just do me a favor and maybe follow a couple of their accounts online and see what it is like the followers of that side of the political spectrum of saying. And so I did, and it was a really good point because I had been incredibly closed off. Thankfully, it just confirmed that I didn't want to be leading
into that, and that was good. But I also do wonder like if this is part of the same process of, you know, if you're open enough to take not taking on other opinions, but at least hearing them. Is this also kind of the same process of saying, that's not aligning with me anymore and I need to either stop
or remove or limit. And I heard the other day it was one of the chicks from Master Chef and she's had this huge kind of body transformation and people were asking her about it, and she was very much against talking about it, and then finally sat down and she's done this interview and she said, well, you know, I've given up you know, a number of things in
my life, and one of them is alcohol. And she said, you know, I made the first time I kind of was aware of how I felt about it was I made this big platter of cheese and I poured myself a drink that wasn't booze, and I cried because I felt like I was grieving former version of me. And she's a fair way down the track now where she's
like it doesn't bother her. But I just thought Wow, that's it must be a pretty confronting moment to be able to say that's not serving me and I need to remove it from my life.
Well, that's great awareness and that's courage. You know. That's that's hard. It's like the idea of change is not the same as the reality. It's not the same as you know, like wanting to be different or do different or look different or produce different results is easy. It takes takes no effort because you just want it. You know, You're not necessarily making a decision, not necessarily sacrificing anything,
You're not necessarily taking any action. So yeah, I mean that's the ever present challenge for people in the on the personal growth, personal development, self help, whatever you want to call it, call it journey. Is that Oh yeah, of course it's hard. Yeah, of course it's giving up booze. I've never drunk, so but I can relate with other things. You know, for me to change my relationship with food took more than a decade to do it properly, because I'd change and then i'd stop, and then i'd start
and stop. I'd good, Oh look at me, I'm fucking amazing, And now I'm shit, and because I fell off the wagon, the mysterious mythical wagon that everyone thought. You know, it's like, nay, didn't you just made different choices and put different shit in your face? And it's one hundred percent no, fuck you, it's the wagon. You know. It's like it's hard, it's hard to go I'm the problem. I'm the problem. You know. It's like, well, how did you? You know? And that's
not self loathing, that's self awareness. Now that's not to say that everybody's problems are all self created. It's not to say that, but it is to say that there are many times when we are not producing good outcomes because we are not making good decisions and we are not doing good things, and we have to just own that. You go, well, that's me. I'm not a victim. I'm just the person who made bad choices and did bad things. And that's not me beating myself up. That's me just
acknowledging what is. And so I don't even know what you asked me, but it's like it is. It's like, this is the challenge. And I think also one more thing that I was going to say is being being open enough to like you did with the political stuff to go. Oh, let me let me look into that. Now. That doesn't mean I'm looking into it because I'm thinking of making a change. I'm just looking into it because I want to understand it. You know, you can't overcome
what you don't understand, right, you can't. You can't criticize something that you don't understand. And one of the mistakes that people make, I believe your honors, is that people think that understanding something is condoning something right, which it isn't. It's like, I understand lots of horrible shit. I don't condone any horrible shit. I wish horrible shit didn't happen.
I wish there was no domestic violence. I wish there was I don't even want to list the things because I don't like even saying it, But all the evil shit that goes on, I wish it didn't go on. But we don't live in my wishes. We live in a world that is full of evil shit and sometimes evil people. It's also full of great things and great people.
But hey, let's be real, let's be practical. There are horrible fucking people doing horrible shit right and us putting our head in the sand and not trying to understand it. Like we can't overcome what we don't understand. We can't conquer what we don't understand, so we need to be equipped. It's like if you're we spoke about war earlier, If you're going to war, you better fucking know what your enemy is doing, because how the fuck can you anticipate
what's going to happen. So, if Tip's going to go fight an opponent, she would be an idiot it to do no prep, to watch no tape, to not understand, you know, whether or not they're a southpoor or you know whatever. Right, she needs to have some insight into what she's contending with, who she's fighting, so that she can go in with a plan. Right, And this is just life. You need to like you're going to deal
with sociopaths. So I think it's it's prudent for all of us to understand sociopathy, not because we want to become one or we think it's cool. But when you meet a narcissist or a sociopath, or a bully or a cunt as I call them clinically, we'll just go with kunt. You know what's going on and you are at least a little bit more prepared. Steps down off soapbox again, what's a south poor.
Left hand in boxing? Very annoying, very annoying.
Yeah, good question though, Legit, there's probably there's probably a bunch of listeners going, what's the southboard? So they're all going, thank you, Kelly.
Well, there we go. I was going to ask what's no, I won't ask what's that?
What's a gun? Well? There are the three things that I that's the umbrella term for sociopaths and bullies and narcissists clinically known as a group as cunts. Yeah, it's a little known fact. But I've almost got a PhD, so trust me.
Great, great, there we go. Now we're in textbook territory, so we've.
We're definitely not Oh god, imagine if Monash kicked me out now fuck so close to the finish line. What happened to harps? Well, he was talking about this umbrella of psychological terms and we used a C word when cool? Yeah, yeah, yeah, come on, what do you got?
Well it does still make me think about the whole like because and like I really am hesitant to call it a journey, but you guys both know that I've been on this self improvement growth process, and I dip into a lot I tap into both of you. But it seems like there's a lot of self help or you know, self growth professionals that will go, Okay, yep, here's where we start, this is what you first need to do. Here's even a little handbook that you might fill out, and then you get to the end and
it's like, great, yay, you're fully grown. Now you're able
to go out into the world. But there does and I don't know whether it's just from what it is that I listen to or whether anybody else has this experience, but there doesn't seem to be enough credit for people who are maybe halfway or three quarters or I mean, it's always a continual process, but there doesn't seem to be enough check in around this is what to expect, yeah, right, Like, I don't know whether that's just something that I'm experiencing based on what I'm tapping into, or if there are
those elements, or is it just is it just really clever marketing from a lot of people where they kind of go, hey, hey, over here, you know a new listener or you know a new person I can help you start, and then they kind of leave a gap there, intentionally hoping that more people are just going to jump on board.
I think everyone's on the journey. Nobody's there. And the person who tells you that they've arrived, that they've got their shit together, they've got it all figured out, do not fucking listen to that person, That's for sure. I mean, you two, I'm sure have met successful people. I've met people, lots of people that were in in a way very successful and legit done lots of great things, and in other ways in other parts of their lives kind of fuck ups, you know. And that's okay. I'm a fuck
up in some things as well. I'm not throwing anyone under the bus. I think that, you know, like, the human experience is not about being good at work. It's not about all making money. It's not about having the best relationship, it's not about having It's about a multitude of things. It's like even when you even when you get to I was talking to somebody about this the other day, who's God bless or you know, spiritual woo
woo and fucking and the real deal. But I'm like, yeah, that's cool, But you still got to pay the bills because we don't live in a concept like we don't do you know what I mean, You've still got to still got to stop at red life, still got to pay bills. You still you still need to work within the parameters of the practicality of the human experience. And you know, put petrol in your car, and pay registration, and buy food, and educate your kids and buy choose
and you know, pay attention and like. So it's I'm all for having a spiritual life. I'm all for making enough money to support your kids and educate your kids. I'm all for being respectful, and I'm all for building a business if that's your jam. I'm all for going on the personal development journey if that's you. But it's
not a thing. It's a multitude of things. Like we could measure TIFF's life, your life, and my life now, depending on the metric or the area of focus, Tiff would come out way above you and me with some things.
You'd come out way above me and Tiff with other things, and I'd come out above both you with some things, depending on how we evaluate success or competence or you know, I'm like well, it's like, I know lots of people who, from the outside looking in, have ticked a lot of you know, they're successful in that they are financially secure, they own lots of things. They drive an amazing car, they live in an amazing house, they've got it torific brand.
They're pretty, or they're handsome, or they're jacked, or they're that's good and none of that is bad. But that doesn't ensure anything on a psychological or emotional level, or a spiritual level, or a happiness level. It just means they've got lots of shit and well done, you know. But our world is very much geod or our culture or society, perhaps more accurately, is very much focused on the concept of success as equating to what everyone can see. It's like, can you see it? Yep? Can you see
how many followers I've got? Can you see what I look like? Can you see how many photos of me I've put on Instagram which are essentially the same photo of the same person. That always that makes me sad when I see people who there's a thousand photos on their Instagram feed or their page or whatever the fuck you call it. A nine hundred and ninety eight are
of them elves. Well, if they're not desperately looking for approval and validation and acceptance, tell me what the fuck is going on, right, Because their form of success is about getting people to look at them and approve of them and give them whatever feedback or praise or And I'm not criticizing them, I understand it. This is I'm coming from a bloke who was insecure and wanted to build this freaky body. I get it, I get it. But you know, okay, so now you've got ten million followers.
Now you're fucking the best looking thing in the suburb. Now now what like even then you go, okay, you're beautiful, you're handsome, you're fucking amazingly built or whatever, and you've got all of these fans and followers. Sometimes they will be the most anxious, the most insecure in the middle of all of that external validation that they wanted, because none of that external stuff guarantees any kind of positive internal reciprocation. You know what I mean?
Oh totally. Someone else who I listened to, Oshiginsburg I've mentioned before, like he's actually spoken about that, and you would look at, you know, a dude like that Who's TV. You know, he was on so many different shows, and underneath the service was you know, riddled with anxiety and doing all sorts of crazy shit to try and stay
calm as a human being. So that concept of the visual being the I guess the social marker or the indicator of you've done well, it's so it just feels like so much bullshit, right, Like it's and I do wonder if that's why when So, for instance, the other week, when you did your episode about having this shit week, which was really so different to anything else that you've done, and you said that it went really, really well, and then I was looking at the Facebook group and like
the comments were through the roof, Like it's almost like people are really just hanging out for that bit of realness and vulnerability that's well beneath the surface.
Well, you can be both. You can be you know, you can be a cataskphe and a superstar in the same day. You know. It's like, yeah, you're happy, you're sad, you're this that, like one of my posts essentially says, and you're brilliant and amazing, and things go great and things go shit and then it's lunchtime, right, it's like that, yeah, yeah,
and like just trying to navigate the human experience. And then you know, it's like and without boring everyone, you know, it's like, then you find out someone that you love is sick, and then all the bullshit that I was
worried about is meaningless. You're like, oh, well, in that moment, it feels meaningless, you know, And then why am I investing all this time and emotional energy and mental energy in this thing that really, in the context of what matters, in the context of my life, in the context of who I love, this is so fucking nothing, yet I've
made it so something. And so yeah, it's been an interesting month for me because there's just been you know, a bunch of people that I care about doing it very hard, and in the middle of that, I want to be the best version of me for them. But it you know, surprisingly, you know, there's sadness, and there's you know, sometimes to be honest with some medical things, frustration and all of that. But for me, overwhelmingly, there's gratitude that I'm I'm I'm healthy and I don't necessarily
deserve to be healthy. I mean, there are people that get sick, that have done nothing to deserve that sickness. You know, there are people that, like our friend Joel Sarti, who's been on the show multiple times, who was home from you know, a serving soldier who had an accident and became a quadriplegic. He didn't deserve that, he didn't earn that. That was not you know, And so in the context of that, I'm like, hey, Craig, you have
no problem, so shut the fuck up. Be grateful. But yes I can feel sad, and yes I can feel frustrated and anxious. That's not a weakness, that's not a fault. That's just you being human. Because your dad's a bit sick, and it's okay, it's okay you're sad. It's okay, you know, and it's okay to share that with people. I don't need to get on the podcast and be the perpetually happy, positive, whatever guy, because that's a fucking act. Nobody wants that guy,
because that guy's not real, you know. That's that's not a real person. That's a persona trying to create some kind of impact on an audience. Well, to me, over time, that might work a little bit, but it definitely doesn't work especially not with Aussi's Ozsies are very discerning. Aussies have got a big, fucking loud bullshit filter. You know. It's like if you're a fake, they fucking know in ten seconds and they're like, yeah, fuck you, that's not real,
you know. And also it's so much easier not being that because you don't have to pretend about anything. You're not trying to be what you think you should be, to present this polished fucking public image, just going look, this is our field today. I feel like shit, I know that's not very uplifting. Sorry everyone, but that's just you know, the seven day a week podcast today bit shit. So but feel free to tune now. And if you did, I wouldn't blame you, and I'll see you tomorrow. I
could be a bit happier see you then. You know, I think people resonate with that.
Oh absolutely absolutely, because yeah, it's you know, you see through bullshit so quickly. And is that And this goes back to my other question as well, when you're trying to be the best version of yourself in those moments like is that the key for you is that it's looking at it through the lens of gratitude.
Yeah, that's a good question. So for me, it's about it's about how much I can walk my talk and live my values when the situation doesn't lend itself to that, when I'm in the middle of a shit best and people would understand me losing my shit or not being the role model that I try to be and the
person that I try to be, not always successfully. But for me, it's like, at the moment, honestly, there are hard things going on, which both of you know, and it's like, Okay, this is the time or this is one of the times, Craig, like you talk about dealing with discomfort and adversity and being the calm and the chaos, and you know, I'm not putting my head in the sand. I'm not pretending things are great, and I'm being honest
and I'm being practical. But I think I think adversity and tough times and pain and sadness and tragedy are weirdly opportunities for us to learn about ourselves. You know, I want to see I like seeing people under pressure because I feel like I get to see who they are. I like seeing people when things are going shit. Not that I want them to suffer. But I like seeing people and things go shit, because especially people who are you know, the the rah rah b ll you can
be self help types. And no, that's maybe sounds nasty and I meant it too, but I'm just interested. I want to see what they do when things are going shit, you know. And a few times where Tips had hard things going on and she's been fine, but she's struggled a bit, as I struggle a bit, and I've gone, this is the time, dude. It's now like all the stuff we talk about. It's like and you don't have to be superman or superwoman, and you can have a bad day, of course, but you're like, okay, okay, that
makes sense. It's like I need to try to manage me in the middle of all of the stuff that I can't manage. So I see it as an opportunity as well as a pain in the ass as well as, you know, just a tough reality to navigate.
And do you find with that like you actually have to stop and have almost like you have a conversation with yourself as you would like said now with Tiffleer, you have to stop and go all right, this is this is the moment where everything that I have been working on, everything I have been downloading, this needs to come into effect. Now.
Yeah, I mean, you don't want to be a self help robot and you want to be spontaneous and authentic, but I think you can do that and be mindful and aware. Like I'll tell you something funny about you, right you, Kelly.
So aside from dressing like a fifteen eurography toatis.
And if that was inappropriate or hurtful, I apologize.
That was great. That was great. It's when you bio.
But you know, like it's no secret that you're an introvert. So you're doing this is amazing, and it's no secret that you used to be intimidated. You knew who I was, and you'd see me at the gym and you'd be like this little fucking timid little thing that would walk
fifteen meters away not to talk to me. And then eventually you know, you're like you like that, you know that that horse that hasn't been broken in that kind of slowly comes over to the horse whisper and just eventually puts its head on the dude's shoulder or the dude you know, and it's like, eventually you came over and you know, metaphorically put your head on my shoulder
and went, could we chat a bit? You know. And then so as you've changed towards me, and as you've gained a confidence and insight and whatever, I've changed the way that I communicate with you. And so you used to send me messages which were pretty short and pretty polite and pretty professional, I guess, and now you're like, yeah, you get a sunshine, you know. I'm like, well, somebody's opened the door, somebody's overcome a you know. And it's like,
so what's my point? My point is, as I see that I can be a bit cheekier or a bit less formal or a bit more you know, inappropriate in a fun way, or a bit like take the piss or, which is my default setting that I really have to manage around a lot of people, of course, then that's where I go. And but it's all based on basically your permission that you're giving me without knowing that you're giving me that permission. It's that theory of mind, it's
that understanding. Okay, Kelly's intentionally or not consciously or not open these doors. So I'm just going to walk through you know. Yeah.
I mean, look, I did call you pet the other day, so I.
Guess, yeah, that was funny. You sent me a message and you're like, hello, Pets, and I'm like, that's fucking great. I'm like, and I'm glad that you do that.
You said hello, love, And how do you follow that up aside from.
Hello Pitt, Hello love? Hello? I said love? Yeah, all right, we might call it a day. But it's good. You're getting good at this. You're getting good at it. It's good, good insightful questions, good topics. While we've got you, do you want to promote anything? Do you want to steer anyone towards your socials or not? Really? What do you want to do? Oh?
Look, I've been really brave and I am writing almost every day now and publishing it. So it is Kelsmith dot substack dot com. And I just kind of thought, I can keep talking about wanting to write, or I can actually write, and so I'm writing.
Well, can't get good at the thing you're not doing, So you're doing it.
I'm doing it.
Tiff. Thank you, Tiff, Thank you, Kelly. Thanks listeners,