#2029 The 'Hard' Scale - Harps & Kelly

I can't remember exactly how long, but it's something like one hundred and sixty or one hundred and eighty cubits And a cubit now, of course this is variable, but it's from the elbow to the fingertip, so obviously that's going to vary a bit person to person. But it's kind of a ballpark unit unit of measurement, and that's how that's how it was measured in those days. Height

and width and length was in cubits. See, nobody needs to know that because now we've got centimeters and millimeters which are much more accurate.

you're welcome world. That's me on a Sunday afternoon. I'm done, all right, everyone, it's been great. It's five four, three minutes. We're done. There we go drop.

and then fix it. So I've been listening to a few different things, And a consistent theme that's been coming up is the power of positive thinking and whether that is believing in yourself, having a bit of a mantra, having something that you write down actually saying it to yourself, which I kind of think that's a bit it's a little bit out there for me at the moment, but there's a lot of conversations I've been listening to where

people are saying it actually works for me. If I, you know, wake up in the morning and the first thing I think is today I'm going to have a great day, then that thought kind of that outweighs our ship what could go wrong? And I just wanted to really get into that and is it something that can

be powerful and what else is behind that? Because I feel like, you know, for someone that lives with anxiety, like thoughts are very powerful, but then there's also action, So how do they kind of correlate what could be stronger? Do they do? They kind of outweigh each other?

things are always going to turn out great. And you know, life's just an ongoing Disney movie with unicorns and fucking puppies and marshmallows. But you know, life's a shitfest at times, and life's beautiful at times. But I think positive thinking is more about can I manage my mind in a productive and positive way in the middle of things that might not be so positive? Yeah, So in the shitfest, or in the mayhem, or in the unfairness, or in the sadness even can I be the person that copes

And I don't always need to thrive. Sometimes I'm just going to survive. Sometimes I'm treading emotional and psychological water, and I'm just trying to keep my metaphoric head above

the ocean of shit that's going on around me. So I think that, you know, positive thinking is a convergence of managing our mind and our energy and our emotions and our choices and our self awareness where we are recognizing that things are not always good, or in the moment, we might recognize right now, well, this is a catastrophe. Like for example, I don't know why this came to mind, but you know, when the crab died in the gym,

my training partner. If you haven't heard this, and I'm sure most of you have heard it too many times, but like in the middle of all of that, my arm and by the way, I'm not saying I did a great job at all. I'm just saying that in the middle of that, all I could think about was how do I fucking save him? What do I need to do? What's going to work? What do I not need to do? How's the best way to manage this?

Blah blah blah. Like everything for me, in the middle of literally somebody dead, literally everything for me was focused on a solution. Everything, like all of my energy, all of my intellect, all of my resources, everything. And I think probably just as much good luck as good management, if I'm being humble and honest, because it could have turned out very differently. But for me, I think being in that moment where the shit's like, it doesn't get

any worse than someone dying in front of you. That's it. That's the worst day you're ever going to have. Is your friend dropping dead? Right? What are you doing in the middle of that? And then we can if we go, well, that's a ten, that's a ten. It's probably an eleven out of ten, you know. And then but I think that you know, that's at the extreme end of the scale. But I think it can be. It can be that.

It can that be that kind of self management when awareness and regulation of self management of the mind and choices and state. But it also can be all right, well, things aren't going well, and this is not what I wanted to happen. In fact, this is a minor catastrophe. How could I reframe this? So I'm still acknowledging what's going on. I'm not pretending it's good because it's not good. It's not good. There's something bad going on. But it doesn't matter if I run away or I turn the

other way. It's still going on. So how do I reframe this? And I might go, look, this is bad, but there are a lot of worse things that could happen. That's a reframe. A reframe might be this is bad, but potentially I'm going to learn something in the middle of this. And I know that sounds cheesy, but I've said this many times and it sounds like a cliche,

and I apologize in advance. But for me, it is literally true that the world is my classroom, and that every person that I meet, everything that happens to me or for me, or despite me or around me, everything is a potential lesson. Now, am I always a good student? Of course not. But if you navigate the world through like remember, we all navigate the world through our own lens, right, So something happens, Kelly goes, oh, that's a minor event.

Craig goes, that's a fucking catastrophe. Even though we are looking at the same thing, we're seeing an inverted com is something different. That is because of the lens through which I view it and the lens through which you view it. And the thing is that if you think it's a minor speed hump, your stress response is are one. If I think it's a catastrophe the same thing, my stress response is a nine. And neither of those respons are about the thing itself, but rather Kelly and Craig's

individual and unique response to the stimulus. I know I'm getting deep and I'm trying not to be too, but this is that, you know, it comes back to how well can I manage my mind? And so I think positive thinking as a concept is a small part of something much bigger, and it's like, you know, it's but it's a great conversation starting point.

But what I'll do is, rather than being in this moment, I'll immerse my physiology in some projected future, bad moment that probably won't happen, and I'll take myself out of the carmen into the chaos or with my own little mind. Again, they mind management one oh one. But that's that's awareness one oh one. Like you think a lot of people, especially people who reach for their phone before they get out of bed, the fucking central nervous system is going nuts.

Their fight or flight responses triggered before their feet hit the floor, before they're out of bed. They have already, through their own behavior, stressed themselves. Yeah, so this is where we start to think about objectively, as much as we can be objective. Does my morning protocol serve me or sabotage me? If I'm being brave and honest and aware, it doesn't work? Okay, So don't hate yourself, don't immerse

yourself in self loathing. Just go hm well, picking up my phone while I'm still in bed and scrolling and worrying and projecting and thinking about potential future catastrophes is actually me getting in my own way. What could be better? Oh well, maybe I don't even take my fucking phone into the bedroom. Maybe it's down the stairs, in my case,

downstairs on the kitchen bench. And after I've had a shower, shit shave, shampoo and jujed my hair, of which there is none, I go downstairs and I turn that motherfucker on thirty minutes after I've woken up, and I'm like, oh, completely different relationship with that thing, and completely different start to my day, and completely different state that I am in by the time I turn it on, or by the time I start to pay attention to things.

lets you into the phone. And yeah, So obviously there's a lot of people that are in this position because these things wouldn't be created if people had that control over their mind and their reach for their phone, for instance. So there's a booming industry right there that's literally helping people with that control.

going to be a dire consequence. You will have absolutely zero issues with self control, with discipline, with motivation, with focus, You'll have no problems because there's a very significant, undesirable consequence. Now, what that example tells us is that right now Kelly has the ability easily to not look at ig for example, Instagram, for example, for the next seven days if her mind

is in the right place. Now, what takes it in this example, Oh, a dire outcome like something that I love being harm Oh, So what does that tell us? It tells us that right now you have the capacity, not soon, not one day, not like you need a pill or you need an app or you need a fucking tile on a fridge. It tells us that you

could do it right now. This is that potential. That's what I'm interested in, and that you know that kind of why do people wait until they get sick to all of a sudden they've got all this fucking self control, self restraint, focused, discipline, willpower. And the reason is because now they are so scared of dying or being sick or something catastrophic happened to them. That that that notion of oh, this is optional, that goes this is not optional,

there's not no this is compulsory. This is absolute. This is completely fucking non negotiable. So I'll shut up after this. So then you think about, like a thousand times people have told me how disciplined I am, right, usually because I train every day. Oh, you're doing your Somebody told me, like, I don't know, two or three days ago, I can't believe how much stuff you do. You work full time, you're doing your doctorate, and you're at the gym every day.

Like you're so focused, you're so bloody inspired, you're so all of these things. And I'm like, I'm actually not. I'm actually not that disciplined because I like going to the gym. Discipline would be going to the gym. If I didn't like it, It would take me more discipline

to have a week off. And so it's that when you identify the behaviors that, for you, Kelly Smith, are the behaviors that align with who and how you want to be, and then you can turn those behaviors over time, not quickly, but into hardwired habits or hardwired normals in inverted comments like these are normal. This is not me being motivated, this is not me being good. Oh look at me, everyone, I've eaten a fucking salad. Here's a

photo on Facebook. Please tell me I'm amazing. All that bullshit is toxic and it's disempowering, not empowering, and everyone thinks, oh, yeah, go, you go you it's kind of good. I get it. I understand the sentiment, but let me tell you, it does not help people build resilience over time. If every time we do something which is just it's not outstanding for you to eat a seal it, that's just what

you should do. In this example, if you need a round of applause or a trophy or a cheer squad just for not being a fucking idiot with your body, then we're in trouble. You know what I'm saying. And this is why real resilience and real mental toughness and real self control and real focus and attention, which eventually turns into real change is Nellie always about what we do when no one's looking, when no one gives a fuck,

and when no one's cheering. It's so easy to be good in inverted commas when you've got a cheer squad. Show me what the fuck you're doing when there is no cheer squad, when it is not fun, when it is not comfortable, when it is not painless, because they are the times where you are becoming the fucking weapon. That internal transformation doesn't have happen in the spotlight. It happens in the shadows.

And what the phrase was is that everything you want is on the other side of hard. And I thought, okay, but what is hard? Like what does that mean to individual people? And what is it to actually work towards get through know that you're on the other side of it, particularly when you can kind of frame it as what you once thought was hard, you've got to that point and it's not hard anymore because you've been putting in

all the work. So that kind of shifts. And then is it you know, is it that the what's the saying? You know that the journey is the destination, So therefore when you're working towards it, that's you know, you're you're either building your muscles, you're training your brain, you're getting fitter. Yeah, that really fascinated me that it was such a blanket statement of everything you want is on the other side of hard.

But as a concept, I think there's a lot. I think there's a lot of truth in it in that, you know what, most people who are listening to this, I'm going to be presumptuous, but I think I know my audience pretty well, and I think a lot of the people who listen to this want growth and improvement and change, transformation whatever they want to. As I always say, think better, do better, produce better, create better, make better decisions,

produce better outcomes. All of that is development and evolution and growth. And I think if we try to analyze evolution and growth and development, where do those Where do those things happen? Or they happen in the middle of the doing, and generally the doing is pretty or it can be tough and uncomfortable, or in the context of your question, it can be in the middle of the hard. And as you quite rightly point out, it's like, yeah,

maybe it's not just on the other you know. It's like you go to the gym, you work hard, you do that three months, six months. The net result is you build muscle, you improve function, you improve range of movement, you lose body fat, you change your body composition, and now your body looks and feels and functions better than it did. And now you've got this reward on the other side of the three to six months that you

just put in. Beautiful, that's a great example. Now my body works better looks better, feels better, recovers better, sleeps better. All this shit that is a byproduct of doing the hard right. So that's a physiological outcome, But what is also true is what's what's acquired and what's achieved in the middle of the hard, Like, well, here, yes, I did all of these things, and I changed my body,

But guess what else. I changed my thinking, I changed my default setting, I changed my standards, I changed my capacity to deal with hard stuff. I built my resilience. I've built my knowledge and confidence and awareness in this environment that I wasn't very confident in. And now I

walk into the gym like a fucking gangster. Six months after I crawled in and I didn't want anyone to see me right, and my self esteem was through the flo And it's not like now I've got a fat head, but it's like now I know that I'm okay, I know I'm not useless, I know that I'm I belong there, and I feel so emotionally and mentally there's been this shift as well as this physiologic of this observable outcome

that is my body. We could say that with me doing a PhD, it's like, sure, I've spoken about the term all the academic and psychologic and emotional and sociological turmoil of the first year or two for me, where I felt like a total fraud, and I may have even been one and not not anything enough. Right, But now you go, well, fuck Craig. Six years later, surely there's been some growth. There has There has, And it's not because I'm special or great. It's because I just

kept showing up. And now am I a brilliant academic? One hundred percent? Not? Am I a way better academic than I was? Yes? Do I understand things that I did not? One hundred percent? Do I have more skill and knowledge and context than a different perspective? I absolutely do. Oh how did that happen? Just lucky Nope, just kept fucking showing up doing this hard thing, you know, and then you come out and you go, all right, cool, doctor Harp's fantastic, that's nice, well done, good fur ego.

You know, Melissa's looking forward to booking me air tickets under doctor Harper, which is fucking hilarious, and all of that's very nice. But really what is great is kind of the internal stuff that I've gained, the confidence and the understanding and the knowledge in the awareness and the increased capacity to serve and help like there, and it

happens during it. And yes, they're on the other side of in this case the PhD or the previous example, six months in the gym, which hopefully becomes forever in the gym for most people. Yeah, there is a reward on the other side of hard, but I think there's also a reward in the middle of hard. I don't think we need to put it. I don't think the benefits are you know, exclusive to post event.

never going to get anywhere. But if it's just okay, well, I'm putting in the work, and as you say, I'm showing up. Then that idea of it being hard becomes, as you say, like you're default, like you're just you're existing, You're doing, you're doing what it is to be you,

and the constant growth and the constant learning, and that's yeah. Again, that's why I wanted to discuss it, because it just I remember listening to it and I thought, that's just such a blanket statement that I actually didn't agree with. And it's not often that I will listen to things and go, you know what, like, I don't agree with that, and who am I even say I don't agree with it?

not a revelation. And I think I think I hope you're comfortable with me saying I think you doing these shows with me where we've I mean this with complete respect. Just got a regular human just sitting and asking me stuff. Right, you being the regular but gifted, brilliant human. Right, this is hard for you. And let's go full disclosure and full vulnerability. Last time we did one, at the end, you're like, I think I was a bit shit. I'm like,

you definitely weren't shit. But but that wasn't the best one we've done, right, and so but it was fine, it was fine. But how do you get great? Well, you start by being not great, you know, and it's not great compared to it's great for Kelly, or it's

great for Craig or this is me, you know. And also think about this, like if we have asked the world famous just recently invented right now, Craig Harper Hard scale, the one to ten, let's go the one to seven like art scale, the Craig Harper Hard scale, and we go, Kelly, how hard is this thing for you? It's just a subjective rating, and you go, oh fuck, that's a seven. That's a seven. I'm like, cool, So let's go to work,

and let's keep doing this thing. Let's develop whatever the thing is, let's get better at it, let's understand it, let's try it different ways, let's let's let's invest some time in it. And then then a month later you're doing the same thing. I'm like, Kelly, how hard is this for you? Now? You go three and I'm like, oh wow. And then I come back, you know, three months down the track, and I go, how hard is it now? And you go, It's not hard at all, Like it's a zero, it's not hard. I go, well,

what do you mean? See? Because hard, like, nothing is hard until there's a person in front of it describing it. Yeah. You know, there are people that go through shit which I'm like, how how on earth do they get through that? And they get through it, and it might yeah, it might be hard, but it might be a too hard for them two out of ten, or it might be

someone else at fifteen out of ten. But the thing is, you're your understanding of hard or we could say difficult or adversity or painful, or they're all kind of first cousins in the adjective kind of fucking world. We go your relationship with that or your perspective of that changes when you're different. Yes, what we're saying is this is not hard. Categorically we're saying this is hard for me. Ah ah, okay, like lifting one hundred whatevers easy. Oh

not for that bloke, For that bloke, it's impossible. For that bloke over there, it's super easy. Or for that girl this run is a piece of cake. For that other girl or lady, it's impossible. For Kelly, it's solid. So things are whatever they are to us, you know. So when you go this is scary, the truth is this is scary for me now, but it might not

be scary for me in a month. Or this is heavy now, but if I train, and I use progressive overload, this scientific principle I eat well, train well, recover well, use my brain, this heavyweight will not be heavy for me soon, despite the fact that it's a constant and I'm the variable. Oh fuck, Kelly, come on, come on, brothers.

And then I listened to it back and I thought, no, okay, yep, well I can I can learn from this and I can see what I can do differently, And that was that was good. It was good for me because it wasn't just you know, here I am and you know I'm wonderful straight out of the gate. It's no, this

is it's a constant evolution of learning and growing. And I guess the idea of positive thinking comes into that for me because I'm really I've said it many times, like I'm really enjoying doing all of this, and then it comes to a few other things at the moment it's like, well, how do I flip my thinking so that I'm enjoying it just as much and I'm bringing the same enthusiasm and slowly chipping away at that going you know what, like, yeah, I was terrified the first

time I put it out there, of you know, hey, can I come and ask you the questions? And it's now just having I guess that is it bravado to just kind of go in every other situation, Hey, can I just step into this space whether I'm ready to or not, and just do it? And you said to me recently, you know, here's a thought, just do it scared,

And that's really stuck with me. And so the idea of just doing it scared is it's actually bringing some and you know you won't be surprised by this, it's bringing some results because I'm just you know, just dipping my toe in there saying, you know, I'm not ready, but if I wait to be ready, I'll never be there. And then, you know, to go back to what we were just talking about, everything will always seem hard if I don't give it a crack.

want to be comfortable. What I want to do is a cake what I want to do, you know what I'm saying. It's like if it was just about what is comfortable for me or familiar for me or easy for me, which of course is the preferred option general, But there's no you know for me, there's no growth in that, and there's no you know. And it's not that every day has got to be this day of it's got to be every day. It's got to be a day of bloody conquering mountains and striving and grinding.

And you know, I've said I happily have fuck all days where I do fuck all, achieve fuck all, and

you know, all of that's great. But I think for the most part, most of the time, most of us who are in this personal development you know, growth mindset kind of human behavior space where we're really thinking about what we do and why we do it and how we are and who we are, most of us want to be evolving, you know, or at the very least eliminating shitty behaviors that hold us back, you know, eliminating not all You're never going to eliminate all self doubt

and overthinking, but let's turn the volume down on that shit. A little bit, and and you know, realize that like every podcast that I do, every podcast there are, if I went back and listened, the reason I don't listen is because I don't like listening. I've I would say, I've listened to one podcast in totality of my own, like start, Finish so, and there's over two thousand. I don't listen because I don't love my own voice. I

don't like my own voice just like everyone else. And I just find too many things wrong with every fucking episode. But I realize that there's no bigger It's like when people criticize me, I'm like, try harder. There's no harsher critic of me than me. He can say whatever you want. It's like you think, you think that I'm like I And it's like sometimes people like you're a dumbcunt. I'm like, yep, sure I agree, and then they've got nowhere to go. I go, you are right, or you fucked that up.

I'm like, yes, I did you got that wrong? Yes I did get that wrong. And I will get more things wrong and I will fuck up, but I tell you what, I won't I won't give up. That's it. Like I'm not giving up. So you can say all the shit you want to me, but you cannot hijack my brain. You cannot, you cannot kill my spirit because that's just me wanting to keep doing what I'm doing, and that is optional. So all the names, all the criticism, I don't love it, but I've had it. I'm used

to it. Fortunately these days we're wh're got the wind behind our back and we've actually got more people that like us than don't, which is thanks, by the way, Thanks, that's nice. You know, there's more niceness than nastiness, but that you know, ability to go, well, I'm scared, and that's all right. This will be hard. I don't kind of want to do it, but I'm going to do it nonetheless because i want the outcome of what doing that hard thing brings me or I think will bring me.

And this is just I think this is just part of the being very very grounded and practical about how growth works. Like how growth works is it's fucking hard the end. Sometimes it's not so, but a lot of times it's fucking hard. It's uncomfortable, it's inconvenient, and they are all things that people don't want. Then as I've said a hundred times, a thousand times, that's the dichotomy. On the one hand, people want to change, grow, learn, evolve,

get better. On the other hand, they want to stay comfortable. Fucking make a choice, bro.

just have to think that I can do something? And like if I think on it enough, if I really believe it, then there's kind of a possibility that will happen. And he said, no, no, no, it's actually knowing that you can do it. It's actually visualizing yourself with what

it is that you want. And he has quite a successful business that's released many different products, and he said, I wouldn't have what I have without inherently believing and knowing and almost picturing in my mind's eye me doing that and having that and building that and working towards that. And I thought, whether or not that's true. I found it really inspiring that he had that belief in himself and was obviously putting in the work. But it was the work going hand in hand with the belief.

Most people almost need to do it before they have any self belief. But I think if you can, I mean, and of course we need this to be logical. If I know that I can run a two hour marathon, well I'm elluded because I cannot run a two hour marathon like I think. Then I think this inspiration and this self belief needs to be moderated with logic and strategy. But you know, speaking of you know, back to positive thinking. You know, I can do this, I can do that.

That's positive thinking. And if this dude spends time sitting on the couch thinking these things. But also I'm not against that by the way people think I would hate I don't hate that at all. I think, fuck yeah, you know. But and this is why we need to go. When I was about to say to you, what do you mean by that, because I can't tell you what I think of something that hasn't been clarified. But when you explain it that way and his process, see, here's

the difference between a lot of law of attraction. And this is just my understanding. Well, and maybe this is wrong because I've never done a deep dive, but it kind of sounds like at times that some people are saying that we focus on it, we belive that and it will come to you ergo attraction. Well, I kind of think for the most part, we've got to go to it. We've got to go fucking chase it, find it, grind it, build it, create it, and then inhabit it.

You know, like I could have sat downstairs in my studio. I'm upstairs in my office right now, everyone thinking I deserve a successful podcast. And the first podcast that I did, the Australian Fitness podcast, didn't work, and then the next one that I did didn't work. If we're talking about being a successful commercial enterprise, didn't work, and then the

next one didn't work. And then the you projects started two years after the first go right two years and then two years later, So that's four years of podcasting. I'm still not making money right. There's no fucking law of attraction there. This is me just working like a motherfucker, trying to learn, trying to build something Like you need to go to it. I think you need to be the what you need to be the one going to rather than it coming to you. I think a bit

of both. But yeah, I think if the mindset stuff is only mindset with no action plan, with no behavior, with no courage, uh, it's it's ain't going to produce anything. But if you have that, you know that law of attraction, positive affirmation, whole thing going on and by the way, not mad at it at all, and you have that kind of that is intertwined with strategy and logic and work and courage and effort and consistency, then you can do something special. I think it's part of the puzzle

or part of a solution. It's not a solution on its own.

been sure about many things and been wrong. But for what it's worth, I was sure that I could do it, but I didn't know if I if it would happen. Like I'll give you another example of things that I know that I could do, but I probably never will. So I've done bits and pieces of Telly, as you know. So I worked on Channel ten for a while, a weekly gig, and from when I started that, people like, oh, you're good on Telly. Telly, Telly works for you. You're going to end up doing TV. And to be honest,

it wasn't like a driving passion of mine. It just ended up where every time I did TV, nearly every time, I got pretty good feedback and I'm like, well, maybe I could do this. And then I got offered to screen tests for a pilot for the ABC called The Life Coach, and so I flew to Sydney and I did this whole pilot program, or I did recorded a show. It was a pilot and it was with myself and another lady. I was kind of the lead, kind of I guess driving host and she was like a co host.

But great. I think there was about seventy people in the room, live audience. Blah blah blah. Went great, It went really well. And a production company was doing it for the ABC. And this was kind of like my interview, like a high level interview like camera's light's action real. It was recorded as a real episode. And even I came away thinking in fact that I did Alright, that was pretty good. That was like my natural habit, that's

me doing that. And then I came away from that and the people that you know, they're like, that was great. It's not a matter of if, but just when thumbs up every like slaps on the back obviously never happened, right, and so things like that. Where do I know that I could do something like that? Yeah, well do I know? I don't. Well, I did one, right, I'm pretty sure I could do I think that will I will ever

get that opportunity? No, I don't do I think I could talk to ten thousand people at Rod Laver Arena for three hours and do a good job. I do I think I could do that? Do I think I will ever do that? Get that chance? Probably? Not right, So that's not me being egotistical or me beating myself up. Do I think I could go and sing for a hundred people and be good? No? Do I think I could do all the shit that Melissa can do with tech? No? Do I think I could do stand up comedy for

half an hour and be funny? No? Because I'd shit myself and I'm too fucking terrified. Right, Look, maybe I could. I don't know. But like, there are things that I'm pretty sure I could do that I will never do and that's okay. And there are things that I didn't think I could do that it turns out I can. That have been a gift and yeah, it's like I think and all of that's okay. It's like I'm gonna be good at some things and terrible at other things and yeah, cool, Like yep, it's like we don't. Well,

you don't have to be good at everything. You can be a complete fuck up and still a great human. Oh yeah, Kelly can't sing for shit, but fuck I love her. She's hilarious and awesome and she's my friend. But she sings like a fucking cats, you know.

rather than trying to fudge it. And I experienced that at a work event a few weeks ago where someone he was presenting he was asked a question and just immediately said, I don't know the answer to that yet, but leave it with me and I'll come back to you. And I just thought, well done. And he came up to me afterwards and I said, you know what, like, if you had have tried to have made something up

on the spot, they would have eaten you alive. So it was so good for you to actually admit that you didn't know the answer and actually get them on side and say I'll come back to you, because then you've also got the pathway open to reconnect with them. And it was nice to be able to say that to somebody in that space and have them like he responded with, Oh, okay, great, I'm glad that it was

viewed that way. But yeah, that sits up there for me, that you know, knowing what you can do without having the ego intertwined, and then also admitting what you can't do. I think that both of those things are really powerful one.

answer or I would give them. I would answer in a way where I wasn't giving them a prescription, but I would have to say, I'm not a doctor, I'm not a physiotherapist, I'm not a surgeon, so that the actual answer is also, i've never met you, also, Brian, I haven't seen your knee, right, but based on what you're saying, it could be this. But the actual answer is I don't know. Yep, the actual answer is I

don't know. And also even if I was a surgeon or a doctor me assessing something via the radio without seeing you, meeting you, looking at your knee, doing any kind of testing, you know, And and yeah, but I just think that you know, we're all we're all a bit brilliant, all a bit broken. The more the more authentic you can be. And I know that's an Ivus term, but just fuck it. It's like it's too like trying to be everything for it and trying to be like the

idea of like for me. Just like saying you don't know, not only is it the right thing to do, it's also well what else would you say? It's like, of course you don't know, Like of all the things there are to know, I'm speaking for myself, of all the things there are to know, I clearly know less than point zero zero zero zero one percent of the things that exist in the world that I could know about or know of or understand or have it. I don't know, Like of all there is to know, I essentially know

nothing all I know about. And even then this is self awareness. Even then the things that I know in inverted commas, nudge, nudge, wink wink, I find out I was wrong. So I didn't know it at all. I just thought I knew it. I thought I knew the food pyramid was the best way to eat. I thought I knew how to get to heaven because I grew up. Firstly, I thought there was a heaven. May or may not be not sure. That's me being brave and honest. Part

of me still feels guilty. I thought I knew the best religious protocol and operating system because apparently I grew up in it. I didn't know anything. I just thought I knew. And this is the distinction. This is the awareness of going, actually I don't know, because he's here. This is a brain fuck that we think, oh, well, here's what I know. No, no, no, no, no, here's what I think I know. What you absolutely one hundred percent no chance of being wrong. What you absolutely know is

probably not that much. What you think you know. What you're sure you know is probably a lot. And it might turn out that a lot of what you think you know you're right about. But also because you're human and because you're flawed, and because you get shit wrong, it turns out there's probably going to be a fair percentage of the stuff that you know that you actually don't know absolutely.

You know, I fought so hard thinking that I was right about something, and now I'm learning how to be comfortable and saying, actually I need to apologize because I was wrong about that. And I fought really hard to get my point across on something that I thought I was right about when actually I wasn't. So when when did that happen for you? Like being comfortable with either being wrong or just not knowing.

These are statements of identity. Now, when your identity is intertwined with an idea or a belief or what you think is absolute knowledge, of course you're closed minded. Now.

What's the hatred about? It's about division, It's about you think A. We think b where the one true whatever you're not, and the other groups going no where the one true ever, whatever you're not. So we think we are the most evolved species. We are the most stupid, fucking yet intelligent, shut down, emotionally fucking crippled species of all time. Like especially now, it seems to be there's more.

I'm probably gonna get in trouble for this, but to me, outside looking in and inside looking out, there's just more stupidity and ignorance and intolerance because everyone thinks they're right. I think if your starting point is I know that I'm wrong a lot, and I'll probably get things wrong today.

And even though I strongly believe this, and the best example I can give, which I've given many times, is, you know my belief in God, which, depending on which lends you look through, that could be considered completely irrational. And if somebody said, Craig, that's completely irrational, I would say to them, I respect that. If somebody said to me, Craig, I'm with you, I'd say I respect that, right, because

this is just what I think. Like, if I could prove that there is a God, I would now have unequivocal, absolute data evidence knowledge. I don't, So what I have is faith. By the way, don't look at me as any kind of role model for any kind of faith, because I'm the sweary motherfucker who has the U project, So definitely don't pay attention to my model of religion or spirituality. But look, I think.

the devil knows the scriptures too, right. It's like, yeah, it's like you can read stuff, you can know stuff, you can It's like you can know every you can quote the Bible. You can, but it doesn't mean that you're living any kind of particular life one way or the other. It just means that you've memorized some shit, right. It's just like, Oh, I own a tracksuit, that doesn't make me an athlete. I have a gym membership that doesn't make me strong. I have a degree that doesn't

make me smart. What I do with the degree makes me smart. What I do in the gym makes me strong. What I do with the knowledge that I get from the Bible, or the inspiration from what I do with that might make me a godly person or not, or a good Christian or a good Buddhist or a good fill in the blank, whatever religion that you are, whatever your faith is. It's like, yeah, this is you know. Knowledge on its own is inert and we need it.

We need it, but just unless it's operationalized. It's like I don't want to I don't want to piss anyone off as we finish the show, but I think if our listeners will being big and brave and bold, and because I have done this and you have done this, how many of our listeners have heard information or inspiration or ideas over the course of their listening experience on the You Project and nodded their head and gone, fuck, yah, that's me all got to do all and then not

done it everyone, every listener and the bloke who's talking right now. So you know, it still comes down to like knowing stuff is good, but what you do with what you know is actually what counts.