I get everyone. It's the Youth Project. Roberts Capuccio is back, Tiffany and cook us back, and I'm back, which is I don't know good? I guess Hi, TIV, what a delight? Hi? Yeah, well you were just marveling at my hair. I'm wearing it up today.
Maybe she's born with it malone that's not here though, that's makeup.
Something Bobby and I do not have to worry about is investing any time or energy or attention into what we're going to do with our hair on a given day.
I envy that.
I envy how much time does it take, because you do have a fair shock of hair. How much time would you spend per day just organizing your hair? Like five minutes twenty minutes.
Most days, five if I wash it and try and get those girls to be somewhat respectable.
It's just it's the fuck.
It's annoying.
It's so annoying.
I'm not into it. So that's why it's always scooped back into a ponytail.
Yeah.
I definitely think next to no hair for me anyway, not that I have the option. Well I do have the option because my hair grows like a fucking weed, but it just grows in seventy nine directions, and I look like essentially a head the T shirt.
When you look like Einstein, I do look like.
I look like Einstein if only I had Einstein's brain. Although there's some conjecture that he was the brains of the family or was not. Apparently missus Einstein was pretty smart. I might have done, might have been much more than just a moral or emotional support system. They think that she said that often the case. Well, they think that she was a genius and may have done. I mean, they think, listen to me, I just read some stuff about that. So do your own research, make your own decision.
Speaking of Genie, I Hi, Robert.
So what I'm getting out this whole converss it really doesn't matter how smart you are, you just got to have the right hair for it.
I don't know that that is the takeaway. I don't know that that's where I was going, But sure, sure, hey, you're going to like today. I think now, listeners, we don't plan well. We never get together and plan about what we're going to talk about, or rarely do, and even when we do, we tend not to do what we said we would do Today is no different. Well today is a little different in that I've planned and those two don't know what we're going to talk about.
So this was written these ideas I want to run by you. I did with you in mind, Bobby, but also tif you're a coach too, so feel free to contribute. So I want to talk to you today about coaching specifically and do an entire episode on that and around that. But I've got a lot of questions, so I need succeed ish now. I know this is going to be
hard for you. I need pretty succinct one to three minute answers because I want to get to at least ten to fifteen questions because one of the when I was way, I was talking to someone in Queensland and they said to me, I don't actually understand coaching, Like what does a coach do? How do you get qualified? Who do? I like, they wanted a coach and they're like, everyone's a coach. It seems like you can become a
coach in eight minutes. And there are people that are coaches that have got degrees and master's degrees and people that are coaches that have got no degrees and they don't there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason or logic or governance around coaching. And it's it's my understanding. In Australia anyway, TIF you might know, it's pretty much an unregulated industry. Am I rights in that like there's no like there's no government kind of recognition.
No, they've got some bodies that you can you can get registration with.
But you know, Bobby, what about in the States is it similar?
The problem with coaching is everything that this person said is correct. You can go through the ICF, the International Coaching Federation, which is kind of like the facto governing body, and it takes an enormous amount of study, rigorous testing and hands on application. I mean, even to become like a professional coach, you have to submit five hundred hours
of actual coaching sessions in extraordinary detail. And you can elevate the criteria much higher than that when you're applying to sit for your masters for the Mastery of Coaching Exam the MCC. And then you can go away for a weekend and you could get certified in something that sounds like coaching, but it might not actually apply any empirical based coaching models. Or tools or skills, so it's kind of all over the shop. I think the ICF does a really phenomenal job at trying to create as
much standards and guidelines as possible. But then you have people that are just like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to launch a coaching sirt or I'm gonna call myself a coach, but what I do has nothing to do with coaching. It's like going to see a physio and you turn out like whoa, oh, actually, what you're practicing is proctology. Wasn't expecting that.
Mm yeah, but my sphincter feels much better, even though it was my ankle that was the problem. Thanks for the uh, thanks for the chop app.
But that's that's But even with your ankle, you got to facilitate the pelvic floor right otherwise you don't have like proper spinal mechanics and inhibits the glute that can cause excessive adduction to the knee and then you know you're not going to be able to control pernation distortion.
So also while you're doing that, you can check my state. Thanks for coming, no extra cost.
It's still no excuse for sexual assault at the physio office. So it just won't be very clear. I don't condone that.
I really wish you didn't open that door, Bobby Capucco, but maybe he didn't open it.
Was it me that opened that well.
But it's kind of the same as personal training, Like in Australia, it's it's I don't know about the state and I know, but like when you go ICF right like they are a credible I'm not saying they're not. There a credible organization and you've got to meet all these criteria and it seems to be, you know, well structured, the contents, the coaching is good, the requirements of high bah bah I've never heard of them. That doesn't mean they're not amazing TIF. If you heard of ICF, yeah
yeah I have. Yeah, Okay, So and I would say maybe maybe not. I would say the majority of our listeners haven't heard of that. Maybe they have my beyond on the dumb one but or the one in the dark. But I think that's the thing is like even in Australia, personal training is an unregulated industry in that there's no government mandates or rules or criteria that need.
To be met.
In order to get insurance, which is an issue, then you need a certificate three or four with an RTO registered training organization. But in terms of you to call yourself a personal trainer and to go out and train people, I don't think there's any legal requirements around that. But anyway, so let's jump back into coaching. So I want to ask you, So let's start with that. What is the biggest misconception that people know? Let's do that too. What is the role of a coach in the context of
high performance coaching or business coaching? The stuff that you do? What is the role like what are you meant to be doing or what's the job description?
Well, a coach should use empirical based behavioral science tools to help people to extract what it is their motivations are and resolve levels of ambivalence. In other words, what are the conflicts that are blocking you from doing what you want to do or being who you most want to be. A coach is not there to It's easier to talk about what a coach doesn't do. A coach is not there to motivate you. Coach is not there
to inspire you. Although when you're talking about things that are aligned with your values and your ambitions and why. Those conversations can be highly motivating, but it's a matter of what you're discovering, not what the coach is illuminating.
So to speak.
Coaches are not mentors, they're not consultants, they're not advisors. They're not there to tell you what to do. So if it's like, Okay, well the advice I got from my coach was you weren't talking to a coach. Now that doesn't say that's not to say that a coach can never insert advice, but you have to be very clear, like, Okay, if we're in a coaching session, Craig, here's what I'm observing. Do I have your permission to pause the coaching session? And you got to be really clear that at this
point we're not coaching. So what coaches do is they draw out of you insights, They draw out of you tools and resources that you already possess. With the presupposition that you are the greatest expert on yourself. Nobody knows you or anything related to your life, your wants, your needs,
your abilities better than you do. And it's just holding up a mirror and allowing you to explore and examine the intrinsic resources that you possess, so you can be more resourceful in bridging gaps between where you are, where you want to be, who you are, and who what you ultimately want to become. That's kind of like the scope of practice of They create that environment where you can really immersively explore yourself, your motivations, your behaviors, and
ways that you normally wouldn't. I mean, we spend so much time looking at the world through our filter. What a coach does is help you step back and look at your filter for a change, and that can be extremely productive.
That's a fucking great answer. Thank you. That actually enlightens me. That's good.
So who.
Let's not go with everyone, but who should and maybe who should not think about using a coach? Like what needs to be going on and what might be going on for me where I would start to think about, let's say we can afford it. Let's put aside the money issue, but just in general terms, who might think about using a coach?
So again, let's start with who shouldn't. If you're having trouble with emotional or behavioral regulation, or let's say you've had an experience or a series of experiences like in complex PTSD, and it's causing you to struggle in day to day functioning. You don't want to seek out a coach. You want to seek out a therapist. You want to seek out someone who is medically trained to deal with
mental health. So let's just start there. Who should seek out a coach Anyone who has either been trying to move towards something but is frustrated with continual stumbling blocks, or you're always getting ready to get ready you move forward, take two steps back. Or someone who's just looking to improve their level of insight and performance around an area of life or work that's important to you, then you would seek out a coach.
One of the questions that I've been asked, literally I was going to say thousands, I would say probably a thousand times over the years, maybe more by people who don't live near me, but people who want a trainer, because you know, like, how do I find a good trainer? And it's like, how do I find somebody that's going to be good for me, somebody that's got skills, knowledge, you know, empathy, awareness, you know, and actually gives a
fuck about me. So my answer is, especially when it's like in I think, like many industries, there are good personal trainers. Remember a personal trainer as a kind of coach anyway, But like there are really great trainers, there are ten out of ten trainers, there are one out of ten trainers, just like there are ten out of ten, you know, bricklayers and one out of ten bricklayers. So it's we're not throwing trainers or coaches under the bus.
But for me, my advice is generally either by recommendation. So if there's a trainer that's three or four people, tell you she or he is fucking amazing, and it's probably worth at least rolling the dice making a phone call or trying to get a booking or secondly, you know, just just go to a GM or a PT center and book one session and just say I want to
do a trial session. And I think the average person will know, even if you're not, you know, super knowledgeable in terms of exercise programming and all the other stuff, I think you will know within an hour whether or not that person and you might be a good fit. So my question is the same for this kind of coaching, Bobby, how do we find a person that might be good with US and for us, well.
I agree. If you hear multiple recommendations that working with someone has been extremely productive and it's been a good interpersonal and dynamic, you don't want to ignore that. You can also, I mean, there's the Institute of Coaching, right the IOC. There is the ICF website. There's also the National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coaches, so they have
a directory on their site. And at least you know that people have gone through a level of rigorous testing to make sure that they can demonstrate the ability to not only understand the empirical models and theory, but actually apply those models. And I am very distracted and very jealous by whatever's going on with Tiffany's camera. That's like amazing. It's just like moving in and zooming around you. It's like perfect. It's like it's a special effects.
Yeah, the idea, we done. Idea. I'd stay boy to be distracted by your zooming in and out camera.
I love it. It's like it's like Sesame Street. It's like there's Tiffany near and Tiffany far in Near Far. It's amazing. I'm like, how can I even focus on this podcast when there's all this like cool special effects going on?
What is that about?
I don't know. It's a new setting.
Let me find out how to turn it off. It is kind of distracting because one minute your head's all over my screen and then you're far away in the background.
Auto framing you. I've switched it off.
Just see Tiffany's eyeball in the screen. Hey, Bobby, all right, So somebody says they feel stuck.
What might be going on? Somebody feels like they're in a holding pattern that they can't get out of. It's kind of a behavior or emotional or productive groundhole day they're not producing. What are some of the things that are often happening when someone is in that state of stuckness?
Okay, And because there's so many possibilities of what it could be, and there's just so many variables, I'm going to go with my personal perspective on this and what I've seen so many times working with clients at all levels. A lot of times in my experience, it can come down to ambivalence. And what I mean by that is you genuinely truly want two things that are either in conflict with one another or they're not aligned with one another.
So like when my wife moved to Brooklyn, she took the cat with her, and you know, she was thinking, Okay, we got this cat, like should we get another cat to keep them company? Or should we get a canary? And the answer is another cat because the cat and the canary are in conflict. Those two things don't necessarily go well together. And that's kind of the same thing with certain goals and ambitions. You know, I want to have a lot of freedom because I value freedom, but
I'm also looking to start my own business. Well, good luck with any level of personal freedom and personal time. So those two things are kind of in conflict with each other, and at which will do is help you examine that more in depth?
Sorry about that. Also, I feel like the idea of transformation and growth and development and success is not always you know, consistent with what's actually practically required. Like people love the theory of success, but not the journey of success because one's easy and one's hard.
Yeah, but you know, we so is raising kids. I mean, you know, having a kid and raising a kid I've heard is brutally difficult. And what I hear from you know, like we're not parents, so we're not experts with this, but I always hear, Oh my goodness, I did not know how hard it was going to be. I love my kids more than I ever thought I could love anyone, but I grossly underestimated the difficulty. So people do pursue things that are really hard. The question is what is
it that you think success will give you? Like, what are you really going after? Some times, you know, when people really examine that, what success in this particular path that I think I'm choosing for the right reasons is an I don't even want that. It's another path, maybe not owning my own business, maybe not having that certain income goal and living within my means, earning much less money, you know, a year as long as I can, you know, take care of all my basic needs, take care of
the needs of my family. That'll allow me to have more time with the people I love. So I think in some form, yeah, it's really hard. Do you really want what you want? And that's not an accusation, it's a curious inquiry, like do you really want what you think you want?
Let's talk about that, right. We know that people are emotional. We know that when it comes to creating our best life for health, or business or career or financial site and making decisions and taking action. We know that a lot of us may include it are inconsistent for a range of reasons. How do we move from being the person who's stopping and starting to be being the person who's at least more consistent, more reliable, and more proactive in the absence of inspiration.
Well, I think the first question becomes consistent at what do you clearly know what you want and what consistent behaviors are going to bridge the gap? And if you don't know, maybe consistency isn't your first stap, you know, because there's research coming out now. I was having this conversation yesterday with and ICF Master coach where being really super clear around goal setting and smart goals sometimes is not very effective for a lot of people, especially when
creativity is involved. And what might be a better strateg for certain individuals is prototyping. Just go out there and test a bunch of stuff. Like you were saying, you know, you might need to go down to the gym and actually make an appointment and experience a personal training session before you get clear about what your next course of action is because you don't even know if it's going
to resonate with you. So if you're interested in stuff, maybe launching a bunch of experiments and seeing, Okay, is this really what I thought it was going to be? Is does this resonate with my values? Do this resonate with the experiences I want to have? Once you get clear or know on certain terms exactly what it is that you're looking for, when a goal is far out in the future, you know, don't focus on consistent behaviors, focus on the why, Like what is it about that that excites you?
Like?
Who do you want to become at the end of this journey?
You know?
What do you value most that you're going to get to have more of as that goal starts to become more proximal in terms of time, So it's not a year out, maybe it's like like six months out at that point, what are the very specific behaviors Forget the why, forget the ambition, forget the inspiration. What are the consistent behaviors every single day that you're gonna need to engage in to progressively bridge that gap between current reality and
future ambition. You know, So it's like, Okay, I'm gonna consistently have to you know, have the salad and not go for the ice cream. I'm gonna consistently have to eat certain foods and not eat certain foods. I'm gonna consistently have to engage in certain exercise behaviors. What exactly
does that look like? And then at that point you're going to focus on the how I think you know, people get way way too caught up and way too distracted and discouraged when you don't have a very specific formula, because it's like, Okay, what's going to happen inevitably when I don't do what I thought I was going to do? Because that happens to everyone. How do you interpret that? How do you react to that? Because that's where I
see a lot of people stumbling. It's like, Okay, I'm going to do this every single day and then okay, well they did it six out of seven days, which is fantastic, Like that's a great track record. I mean, just you know, talk to anyone who's in sales. How would it feel to like sell six out of seven prospects? You'd be amazing, You'd be brought up on stage at
every annual corporate summit. But what's the story you tell yourself, and do you have the specificity to where that misstep can give you more information than you normally would have had without it, allowing you to go further and create behaviors and strategies that are even more sustainable. So a lot of times it's those missteps that are critical to long term success, not antagonistic to it. But if you don't have a crystallized plan, well, oh my goodness, that
that's just a complete failure. I either did it or I didn't. Now I can't learn no matter what happens. So what's on the other end of not being able to learn and being disappointed continually frustration and overwhelmed? I mean burnout itself. I've been having this conversation a lot, so I have a friend of colleague. Definitely not one to three minutes. By the way, Oh I I'm over time.
Not the first and you still haven't answered my question. I love what you're saying. But some people know they just need to work out five days a week or they need to eat better. Like what's the answer to the question. People who they know what to do, They have clarity about what they should do, They know the how, they know the why, they know the reason they've got the resources. They know the answer to the question, the question to losing weight or building this is that I
need to do that thing, But I consistently stop. What's that about? What's that inconsistency about? By the way, what you said was brilliant. I just want to know, because there are people listening to this going. I've honestly started fifty times, and it's not because I don't know what to do. It's not because I'm dumb or I don't have resources.
Here.
I am twenty years down the track. There's the same in a dialogue. I'm still not making the changes that I should, and I'm still not following through. What is that about? Do you think?
I think it's a matter of what your expectations are on the results that you're going to get and how soon you're going to produce those results. I think it's also a lack of a refined, clear strategy. And then I think it's around how and we've talked about this, I think all three of us have talked about this in the past. How you view goal setting? Are you setting a goal in order to improve performance and something like I want to do real, really good especially if
that goal is externally motivated. You know, I want people to give me validation. You know that next family event, I want everyone to tell me how amazing I look, or are you doing something because you're actually interested in that activity and who you get to be doing it. So the goal is to be better. Like tomorrow night, when I get up to do comedy, there is there's a chance that I'm going to completely bomb on stage, but that's gonna because I have my set so structured.
That's going to give me feedback. And if you really value what you're doing, you value that form of communication and connection, it's just going to help me get better. So I could walk off stage and have an audience that's dead silence. Now, obviously I don't hope that happens, but if it does, I can go, Okay, I'm gonna learn some stuff. Let me go back and reflect. I mean, that's what wisdom is, right, it's experience upon reflection. So what do you want to have happen? What's your motivation?
Are you looking to do good or you're looking to just simply do better. If you're looking to do better, every time something happens that causes you to stop it'll actually cause you to learn lead with your curiosity. So expectations, do you have a structured strategy that's proven to work, and what is what is your mindset around what setbacks mean to you? I think those three things. It's probably a lot more to it, but right now you know within first, that's one going I like it, dude.
I feel like a lot of people get overwhelmed, Bobby, with knowing where to start, because it just feel it feels like there's just too many things. I feel like there's just way too many things. I don't know where to start. I don't know what to pay attention to. And it's not a bit of analysis, paralysis, overthinking, insecurity, self doubt, whatever for people who feel that, people who feel overwhelmed and don't know how where to start. What you're coaching kind of thoughts around.
That, Well, first of all, that's valid. I mean James Petrasca, he's one of the pioneers behind the trance theoretical model of change. Those are the phases of change we go through when we're attempting to do something right, especially so yeah, we've not typically done before, which requires becoming someone you've never been before. So yeah, there's a lot to that, and I think it's what happens when you try to put all the pieces of the puzzle together all at once.
What Petrasca's research also shows is that if you are able to do something consistently, Actually, Philippo Lali at London College University her research found pretty much the same thing, if you're able to identify a certain behavior and do it with a level of consistency. Not only did ninety five percent of the people in the Lalli study actually develop long term sustainable habits, but of course, according to Petraska, you are twice as likely to succeed the next time
you select a more ambitious habit to form. So start anywhere. That's the thing. It's like, look if it's a fifteen minute walk around your neighborhood, as long as you're doing it consistently, start there and then think, oh, wow, I've been doing this for like thirty days, what else am I capable of? And just build piece by piece, Because if you're starting and stopping, by going slower and picking one thing at a time, you might be a lot further.
Maybe not like thirty days from now, but three hundred and sixty five days from now, from where you would be if you started and stopped, started and stopped and brought all that frustration, doubt and discouragement with you.
Yes, love it. What Bubby was talking about there to everyone is called the trans theoretical model, which is, like he said, by Pretasca and declemente. So I have to look at that because there's six different stages and it's really quite interesting, from pre contemplation to termination. What I wanted to ask you was, how do we balance ambition like reaching for the stars whatever that means for us, being driven, being focused, grinding, hustling all that with personal
well being? Like how do I I reckon I probably I think I've probably got this figured out now. I think I didn't for a long time, and I think probably us three who probably shouldn't speak at it. But we're a little bit like you know, high performers in that we're kind of grind and hustle and work hard and maybe overwork and underrest sometimes. So I don't know if any of us should answer this, but like balancing ambition and drive with well being and physical, mental and emotional health.
Bobby, again, I'm going to give my perspective because this is one of those things where there's so much to unpack. I mean that depending on the individual, depends on so many factors and the social connectors's environment, their upbringing, their beliefs, both explicit and unexamined. For me, I feel that well
being and high performance are inseparable from one another. So well being is not only the driver, it's also the litmus test to whether or not you're going to sustainably be able to do what you're doing in the long term. Because when you talk about well being, a lot of people think about okay, like health and fitness, and sure, you know, health and fitness is in well being encompasses that,
but it transcends that as well. It is a level of social, emotional, mental, and physical functioning that allows you I think I'm going lately, I was going with Gallops interpretation of well being, which is phenomenal, but I think even more specific as Martin Seligman's within the acronym pirma. So you are exhibiting a state of well being when you are the p engaged in experiencing a higher ratio of positive emotions and experiences day to day than negative.
And there's I mean, Barbara Frederickson had a specific ratio around that. I don't think there's a specific ratio. It's just it's a lot. More so for every negative experience you have in the day, let's say you'll have five positive ones, and that's one expression of well being. The E is around in agement. And take a look at anyone when you walk into a shop or a friend of you as that works, and how engaged all they like?
Are they excited? Do they bring When people talk about quietly quitting, what that is is an epidemic of disengagement. And I think that and the and the problem we're facing with burnout is inseparably connected. And then the R is relationships. Are you engaged in stimulating, rewarding healthy relationships with other people? The M is do you have a clear sense of meaning for your life and for what you're doing or are you being thrown about like a ship without a rudder in the middle of a storm.
That's important and when you have all of those things lining up, what you're going to say is clear evidence of that through accomplishments. And I don't mean like, Okay, you got your highest commission because you sold the ten million dollar home as an estate agent, although it can definitely be aligned with that. But there are certain things you're accomplishing that you're doing, you're growing, there's clear evidence,
and that relates back to efficacy. So when you have all of those things in permit and play, you are exhibiting signs of well being and you're probably feeling that. Now, imagine you take any one of those away, your performance is going to suffer.
I feel like, yeah, that was great, thank you. I also feel like, though, that we can see people who, in one aspect of their reality, they are high performance like athletes, like business people, like scientists, like politics, right, and from the outside looking in, they are a high performer. They're winning, they're achieving, they're building wealth, they're building brand,
they're building you know whatever. But away from that there is no well being, Like they are mentally and emotionally broken. But from the outside looking in, they are ambitious, they are successful. So I don't know. For me, I don't think they always go together. I think quite often there are what we would call high performing people who are actually mentally and emotionally broken.
And so see that one more time.
I think they are high performing people in a certain era of their life and I've worked with them, so of you who at the same time are fucking completely unhealthy, Like they're depressed, they're anxious, they're not sleeping, they're medicated. But people are by to be like them. So I think there's a real dichotomy between you know, essentially the PR campaign. Oh look at Craig, or look at Bobby or Tiff or look at who No, don't look at us three we're fucking idiots A speak for yourself apps.
But you know there are people that we look up to, and which is not say this as everyone. But on the one hand, what you see is basically a presentation or a PR campaign, But away from that there's there's just all kinds of brokenness and dysfunction. And like you said before, this is not judgment or hate or criticism for me, this is empathy. Like I think, I think that the the intersection of high performance and brokenness is more common than we think.
I think this goes back to what we're seeing in the beginning of the show, right where there's there's success and then there's the reality of what it takes to get there and why do people not pursue the heart And it's like, well, hold on. You got to choose your heart and understand like what it means to you do you want what you want? So when you say that, a lot of times we look at people just at the brochure level. So we're a society that idolizes superficial appearances.
Because let's take a look at what you had said. And I'm paraphrasing. I know I made you repeat that twice, but for a reason none that's co Let's say let's say Tiffany just hypothetically was struggling in an area of work, right, and I said, ah, you know what, tiff I know somebody and we're thinking about someone who's worth half a billion and they own multiple companiesn't really successful. But I talked about the day to day reality of that person.
I said, I have someone who is willing to coach you. They've listened to your show, they love you. They're someone who is absolutely exhausted, miserable, depressed all the time, and just stressed out of their mind. So and you know that not coach you, they're willing to mentor you are you interested? Well, Tiffany might do a double take and say, well, wait,
I'm sorry, they're what again? I don't know if I want to be mentored by that, because we take a look at just what we see on the surface level, like it's an iceberg, but we don't take a look at what is under the surface. And I'll give you I'll give you an analogy with myself because I do have that personality from time to time, not always where you know, being on the road as a speaker, most
nights you're not getting quality sleep. You know, you're not your diet is not as good as it should be, You're stressed out of your mind, You're going from city to city. You're in like three different cities in a week. That's exhausting. But there's also an emotional and I believe well being benefit because I love it so much or I did love being on the road so much that there was intense there was engagement, but after a while,
you're gonna break down. Here's here's a more vivid example. Exercise. So I was so in love with and attached to and let's be honest, dependent upon high intensity exercise. And for a lot of you know, for a lot of my youth, people look at me and go, oh wow, you're in really good shape. I mean, people on a lot better shape, but compared to the average person, I
looked like I was really healthy and really fit. Was I well though, because now I've got a detached pectoralis major, I've got a dislocated a chromioclivicular joint, I've got multiple fractures in my left clavical and let's just keep going down the list. Because I was, and that's analogous to that person burning both candles at the end, at both ends, whether you're doing that on the pitch or in the boardroom or in the way, So did I Was I exhibiting a high level of well being?
No?
I was exhibiting a high level of fitness at the expense of my well being, to the point where I can no longer sustain that level of fitness because I destroyed my body and the process because I knew. I knew how to put the throttle down. What I didn't know how to do is put it in first gear. I think that's a more vivid example because it's a little bit more concrete. We see that person who is a pro athlete. They can't walk now now, now, was
that wrong? No? Because if you ask them maybe they might say, well, it was worth it because I got to live my dream and I knew this was a possible consequence. But that's definitely a possibility if on the other end it's like, oh, I wish I never did that, that said.
Shout out to Ronnie Coleman, poor buddy Ronnie Coleman. We love him though. All right, so let's talk now about somebody who thank you for that. By the way, somebody who you sit with them and you, as much as you can perceive, you realize that their potential is a nine, but their belief in their own capacity and ability is a two. So, in other words, their self image doesn't match their potential. And by the way, I think this
is nearly everyone. And again this is a you know, there's a myriad of things around this and variables and approaches. But so you're talking to someone and you realize the problem, or part of the problem at least, is not what's possible for them, but rather their belief about what's possible for them. Where do you start? How do we get
people to or support people? I should say, to build confidence and to build an understanding of this is one of my fucking passions is to help people understand their own capacity.
I think you know, two things pop in my head when you ask that question. One is finding areas where because a lot of times we recognize our capacity in one area, but because of whatever story we tell ourselves in another area, we did question it. So through having a conversation, I would be very curious to know what has typically gone very well for you, Like what do people tell you is an attribute or strength or something
about you that you possess that they admire. Let's talk about a specific time in your life when you've exhibited that. So like a lot of people who don't know if they can make a transition from one career to another career, but they transitioned from getting married, having a kid, having a bunch of stuff happen in between that that was unexpected, and now they've got three kids. All of those three
kids are well adjusted and quote unquote successful people. And you ask them like, oh, you know who's your hero, and they'll go, oh, well, mom or dad, And it's like it's that same person doesn't know if they can make a transition. I want to dig into what did you do? What do you attribute to being able to produce such extraordinary results in one area of your life and then back up and get a little bit more strategic about how we can take all that stuff about
you and overlay that into another area. Because what exactly, what exactly is the difference? Like what makes what makes you know accounting to personal training impossible? But like raising three kids no worries because a lot of other people would go, oh, I'll take the career change that other thing that sounds very very hard. Another thing is like it is just vicarious experience. The fact of the matter is, I don't think anybody, like you said, has one hundred
percent belief in their ability to do anything. So who do you know who's doing what you want to do or who's done something similar to what you're looking at doing. Talk to me about that person. What do you think they believe? Is it possible that sometimes they doubt? And when they doubt, what do you think they do to overcome that and still engage in the process that allows them to be where they are or more important, be who they are. So what do you think those attributes
are that they possess? What do you think they do every single day? What are some of the things that they wouldn't do every day or most days they wouldn't do it because it's a distraction. Now, out of all of that, is there one thing or two things that you believe align with your level of confidence, your ability, that you can start experimenting with for a giving amount of time and see how that works for you. So
borrow someone else's belief vicariously, go through vicarious experiences. And then you know, a third thing would be, you know who really supports you, Okay, how can you enlist their support? Like Will Marudolf. Will Marudolf's success story is rooted not in everything she overcame, which is extraordinary, but it was
rooted in her mother's commitment. You know, her mothers simply would not be denied when Will Merudolf was a young, frightened child and hadn't really lived long enough to have a level of self efficacy to ever conceptualize that she would be able to walk, not to mention be one of the greatest athletes in modern history. So I mean those three things is finding a different area, go to a look at your life from a different vantage point,
because you'll find you'll find competence there. Another thing is borrow vicariously, you know, and then kind of model other people's behaviors and attitudes that you think allowed them to be who they are. And you know, who can you elicit supports?
You love it? I would also add, I think, like from a point of view of how do I build self belief? How do I build confidence? Like in a really practical way, I'd say, well, let's say you've got no belief at all that you could run a marathon. You know, this is just an example. It's not about running marathons. It's about visualizing something and doing it.
Well.
Of course you can't run a marathon because you haven't trained at the moment. Of course you don't have the fitness. Of course you don't have the perhaps the equipment. But I would say, all right, well what can you do today? You know? You go, well, I could walk, I could probably do a walk, job, I could probably cover a kilometer.
And I feel like that's that's really the process for so much thing, so many things like if you think about Roll with the Punches your podcast, So you're now how many of you a thousand episodes give or take, Yeah, so a thousand episodes ish? And how did you get good? Like how did you get good on this show? How did you get good on your show? How did you build brand and confidence and competence? Well, you did the
first show. How great were you on the first show? Probably? Yeah, Well maybe you're the maybe you're the unicorn that was brilliant from the start, but us normal people. My first one hundred episodes were somewhere between shits and average. And then you go, but how do I become more confident? How do I build self belief? How do I build excellence? I think, well, just something that you can do, anything
that you can do to create momentum. Anything, you know, have a conversation, roll the dice, do a podcast that's bad, Do a bad one, and then next time, dude, one that's maybe not quite as bad, and then maybe episode ten will be rocketing up towards fucking mediocre. But you can't get to excellent without being the white belt, you know, as we say so many times. All right, Bobby, we've got a couple. Go, I'm loving it. Let's talk about pressure. Life is pressure, or it can be pressure. Achieving can
be pressure. Being able to self regulate and make hard decisions and do things under pressure is part of the human experience. And the dichotomy is that while this is a requirement for thriving and surviving and building resilience. At the same time, many of us are addicted to comfort and certainty and predictability. So talk to us about as a coach helping people to become better performers under pressure. Please.
I want to go back to a conversation I had with a colleague of mine because he's Okay, is just absolutely brilliant. He is a doctor at Yale University and he trains teams of doctors, and we were having a conversation about a subject that is coming up increasingly, which is burnout. It's talking about, well, some major causes of burnout that he has seen in his physicians are they cannot see into the horizon right like next month will be markedly different than it is today, Like what I'm
struggling with it can get better. And they seem to struggle with a sense of self of learned helplessness. So no matter what I do, no matter how hard I work, no matter how hard I try, things are not going to be different. And I think that's really important is a sense of meaning that is bigger than your daily struggles. And there's a lot of short like there's a lot of uncertain in the world. There's a lot of fear in the world that's understandable, like what is that meaning?
Like what is most important to you? What does that look like in the future, and what are things that you can do every day. This is why habit formation is so critical, because it's not just in developing the habit. It's like you are engaging in something and that engagement is evidence of ability that is connected to a future state that by itself decreases the adverse effects of living
in a high stress environment. Just that, just that expanded locus of control because the thing and the competence behind the thing is inseparable. I say, if I do this every day, it's going to lead to that, and every day I engage in it is the irrefutable evidence, or as James Clear says, it is the vote I am casting for who I am, my identity. So I think that that's CRITI call and also knowing. I think knowing when to when to pull back, like resilience is about adaptability.
It's like knowing when to keep going and knowing when to unplug. I think that's critical as well, because at some point you know you're when you get completely exhausted and frustrated. You don't have the capacity to engage in reasoning, planning and proper decision making. So having that level of honesty and self awareness is probably important.
And what about for you, t If I want you to answer this too, but Bobby will go first, if that's all right, Like a mistake or a failure, or a disappointment or a fuck up, whatever you want to call it, that you experienced yourself something that didn't turn out how you wanted it to or thought it would, something that was, maybe from the outside looking in, a failure, but it ended up for you being like a light bulb moment or an awakening or a lesson that became
invaluable moving forward. I'm sure there's a bunch of these, because I think, you know, for people like well, people like me anyone, I'm sure you too, Like I tend to more, I tend to learn more when I fuck something up than when I get something right. But is there anything that springs to mind for both of you? We'll start with you, Bobby.
I was hoping we would start with tear F here, because, like you've just described the past two years of my life, and this is something I haven't been very good at as of lait.
I think also before you dive in, so what is it? But I also want people because I mean, this is not for you or tier for me. This is for our listeners, like I want them because this is everyone like people are. We're always fucking up. We're always getting let down, We're always letting ourselves down, We're always getting things right and wrong. Also, we're always waking up in the middle of a trough, not a peak, all that
human shit. I mean, how do we turn the negative components of our experiences as much as possible anyway without being delusional? Rah rah self helpers? How do we try and turn that around so there's something positive in that that I can then go cool. Yeah, I didn't want that to happen. It did happen, But here's what I learned, and here's what I know.
Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying because I'm coming at this from my own perspective and I want full DISCLOSU because I don't want to be a hypocrite. He going, oh, well, here's what you would do. Meanwhile, I've been struggling with this shit myself, so I just want to be very
clear about that looking back. One, sit in it, like you don't have to have a strategy, have a definition and explanation or clarity straight away, Like sit in it for a little while because your emotions are probably running so high and you're probably who depleted that if you jump into okay, what does this mean? I got to fix this? I going to move forward, You're probably going to bring yourself to a point and burnout, which is
going to make everything worse. Second is perspective, like when you're explaining this in your head, and this is something that I became aware of recently. Any time you look at a massive life disappointment as it was all my fault, like everything that happened was me, or it was not my fault at all, like it was everything and everyone outside of me. Both perspectives are damaging and delusional because
that's just not reality. You're always involved in what happens, regardless of your intention to some degree, and you are not almighty, all knowing and all powerful to where everything is your fault. I think I think that there's a lot of thought fallacies in that, so being measured. First of all, take a look at what happened not not your feelings about it, not what you need. You can examine that later, but just look at what happened. Then start to go, Okay, why did this impact me the
way it did? Like, what was I hoping for in this decision and this course of action? What was sacred to me? What did I value that caused me to pursue this, or maybe what caused me to pursue it was an abandonment of my values, and my ego took over to where I know, I want one thing, but oh I really wanted everyone to see me as this other thing. So I took this career choice even though it didn't mean anything to me personally. But you know
Dad would be proud. So really examine what were your motivations behind this, and then what are some of the most important lessons, like you said, that you can pull out of it? How do those lessons apply to helping you align more with the values you hold, the identity that you want to cultivate for yourself that you would be proud of that you uncovered it in the introspective
part of this in the first place. And what's like one small step that you can take exercising the lessons you've learned, and that's not perfect, and it still sucks and it's still going to hurt. But I think that kind of gives you insights and actions that, regardless of what you're going through emotionally, can kind of put you in a state of forward momentum towards the next chapter of your life, where in hindsight this won't have as much weight.
Thank you, Robert. I've don't know that you actually told us specifically when fuck up that you made at all, but anyway, that's okay.
I yeah, I don't, I know, that's all right.
It was good.
It was both of you know this fuck up very very well.
No, no, no, you did well, you did well. I'm just fucking with you. Tif what's something a mistake of fuck up, of failure that actually became something of a positive when you got your head around it or moved through it.
But I think I bang on this about this one a lot, which was the businesses I went into and that didn't go well. But as Bobby was talking, I just had the chance to reflect a little because I've always said I really tend to thrive and find my feet in the middle of adversity. So when shit hits the fan, and I was like, that's not helpful for people. But what I remembered was last year I listened to
a podcast with Stephen Bartlett speaking to a doctor. I can't remember his name, but I was obsessed with it. And one of the things he said, and it always stuck with me, was about negative energy being the primary motivator for change, the primary driver, and so it was talking about the idea of venting. So what comes with that influx of hugely negative energy is this influx of motivation and that begins this wave that I then get
on and ride. And so I tend to make the most of shitty situations that are out of my control. And I guess I put it down to that is it comes with that, So I lean on that when shit hits the fan or doesn't go the way I want it to.
HM. Very good, very specific.
I like it.
Thank you, giddy up butter cups. Well that might do us. That was good. I mean, I think for me, if I was thinking about when both of you were chatting, I was thinking, what's something that I not so much a fuck up, but just something that I got wrong or I think a flaw in my thinking and my motivation. And this is a little bit embarrassing, but this is just true. I think when I was younger, I really wanted to be popular. I wanted people to just think I was great, And even early days of doing all
the stuff, like I chased popularity. That's not the only thing, but I really wanted that. And then I kind of realized popularity is not love. Popularity is not like it's kind of almost like emotional fairy floss. And so I've shifted from being enamored with that to being more not concerned is not the right word, but more aware of or wanting to be respected rather than necessarily liked. You know,
I don't want people to dislike me. I definitely don't want to be unpopular, but it's like, yeah, when for me, when your driver is popularity, you're probably not going to say some things sometimes which you actually think are true and potentially powerful, because you don't want to fuck three people off, so you tend to And I used to do this. Obviously, we know I don't do now, but I used to do it a little bit where and I know I get called the velvet sledgehammer and all
that shit, but believe it or not. I used to be super aware of just not saying anything because I was a bit of a people pleaser. I want everyone to fucking love me. And One, it doesn't work. They're not all going to love you. Two people are still going to hate you. Three it doesn't work on a personal level, for it lacks integrity and authenticity, you know.
And five the more, as long as I'm compassionate and as long as my intentions are in the right place, I'll still get things wrong, by the way, even with good intentions. But I'm way more comfortable in my own skin now, even though I have blue hate me and hate my shit than I've ever been steps down off soapbox.
I love that I was before you said the word integrity, I was going to ask you, is it more about integrity now?
Yeah?
And I And I mean what I love about talking to Bobby, talking to you, what I love about having these conversations where it's not scripted, We're not following anything. We go where we go, there's a bit of banter, there's a bullshit, bit of bullshit. We don't have to agree on everything. If we get on here and always agree on everything everyone, then you know, it's bullshit. You know,
the conversations bullshit. If we always agree on everything, then we're just producing some kind of podcast fairy philosopher mass consumption. I like the fact that we don't see either eye on everything, we don't always overlap or because that's the
fucking human experience, you know. And I think the fact that all of us get on here and we think out loud about what makes things work for humans and what matters for humans, and how we do and think better ourselves individually, but also how we as coaches and fans of people and supporters of people, how we strive to be a positive in others' lives while also being kind of dysfunctional ourselves. And as I've said many times,
I think it's true for all of us. If I wait until I've got all my shit together before I help people, I'm never helping one person. So you know, it doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be both. Bobby, how do people connect with you and follow you? My friend?
Well, I might have a stalker. That's one methodology, right, Okay, so we're more appropriate, would you know? I'm no, I'm not saying I would. I just think. I just think I have a stalker because, like, there's this person that follows me home every single day. I mean it's not the same person, it's a different person every day, but you know, it feels like stalking. More appropriately, you can connect with me on LinkedIn or on Robert Cupuccio dot com sefbo dot com.
If have you noticed his amazing capacity not to answer the simplest of questions.
It's like he goes high performance human that no one's got a fucking license to drive.
Yes, it's like fucking good.
How do we steer it?
Yeah? How do we just? Let's hold his brain in those special gloves, don't fucking drop it. We don't exactly know how it works. We know it works, but nobody understands.
If you ever had the question in your mind what happens when traumatic brain injury meets to rats, there it is.
It's like quantum physics. We all know it's brilliant, we just don't exactly know what the fuck it means. Tiffany and Cook, thank you so much, Bobby, thank you. We'll say goodbye a fair but listeners appreciate you. If you're not on the You Project Facebook page, go over there
sign up there's fucking nothing. There's no cost. There's just a community of people maybe like you, that want to talk and interact and give feedback on the show and suggest ideas and be part of a community that's actually not screaming at each other and shoving horrible opinions and bloody biases down each other's throat. We thought we'd try something new, a positive space on the internet, So come and join us. Thanks guys,