I'll get a team. Welcome to another bloody installment a year. Project's Tiffany and Cook, it's Craig, Anthony Harper, it's us, it's you. What are we going to do for our two thousandth episode?
Oh well, I know to hope there's some cake personally cake or a cookie or something for me.
Yeah.
If I should have my first beer.
Maybe maybe that could be the two thousand celebration.
I'll tell you what. If there's a company that wants to put up fifty grand for trademark, I'll have my first beer. Oh this is the first beer.
Ever, dude.
If the company wants to put up fifty grand, I'll have a beer. I'm pretty sure you won't be getting that money, mate, But if you never know, stranger things that happened. I've never had a beer in my life. Cigarette drugs. I'm the most boring fucker you'll talk to you today, that is for sure.
But that's officially straight edged Craig.
That is I'm Australia one eighty super boring. Look up boring. You'll just see me just looking back at you. Hey, how are you me?
Good? Good?
Yeah? As I said back from Melbourne yesterday so we've just moved house over the weekend and yeah, just settling them on your surroundings today.
So all is well and you're in tourm But did I get that right when you told us off there?
Yeah, based in Tormbart, Trademark's based in Darra sort of just outside him, switched towards Brisy, and tax is based in Tuam.
Give people a little bit of a snapshot of you and then we'll talk about Dan and then we'll talk about trade. Mutt Mutt, But who you mate? Give us a snapshot.
Yeah, so I'm Chippy by trade. Born and bred central West Queensland, Longreach. Grew up on sheep and cattle stations out there, went to boarding school from grade six in Toomber actually so six and seven year in Twente where and then onto boarding school down at Brisbane. When worked in the territory for a couple of years on a
station out there. I did a year of college in Geelong and then back out to the territory and then after that finished up and started my mature age carpentry apprenticeship in Brisbane.
And yeah that's.
When I met Dan, so co found a best mate on a building site in twenty end of twenty fourteen and Dan, he's from Sydney.
He moved to Brisbane. Yeah, what was it?
So it must have been about fifteen nearly fifteen years ago, I reckon and he just wanted to expand his knowledge and find basically a boss that he was really keen to work for and become a better carpenter. And he packed an overnight bag to come up and work for a bloke about fifteen years ago and never went back. So, yeah, we met on a job site. Long story short, Yeah, trade mutin tax, which I'm sure we'll touch on today.
Well, what did you think you're going to be when you grow up or what did you want to be? What did you aspire to be when you were ten? I don't know.
I remember telling Dad I wanted to be a sharer once and he nearly beat it out of me. So yeah, no, I never never went down the idea of becoming sh mate.
That's an actual job. That's an actual job, dude.
So I can't really remember anything particularly being like I want to do that when I was young. More when I got when I was finishing high school, I definitely wanted to manage stations in the Northern Territory and be on big cattle places and then yeah, those things sort
of changed. And yeah, I've always been kind of obsessed with business and how people one make a living, but to create you know, pretty cool organizations and things that do some pretty cool things, and it just kind of be in my obsession, I suppose for they're kind of like eight to ten years.
We're just did a podcast and we're talking with a lady, doctor Lillian Najard, who's a clinical psychologist, and we're talking about creativity and we kind of identified the fact that even building a business, you would think, oh, that's very you know, you need a business mindset, you need a logical strategic mindset, which you do. It's kind of a
particular intelligence. But it's also creative because you take something in your head and then you turn the thing in your head into a thing in the world, the thing that only you can see, and then a bunch of other people can see it. And that all that came out of the nothingness, you know, that came out of a concept I thought, an idea creativity.
So, yeah, you are right.
And when you put it like that, because I often say meet personally often say that I'm not creative, but yeah, there is.
There is definitely a level of creativity. I think it's more just.
Like, yeah, I can draw a house and a stick figure, but I think I'll put my level down to that is what creativet is. But yeah, there's definitely more more levels to it, without a doubt.
We also spoke about problem solving being a huge part of creativity because you know, you're constantly I'm sure you're constantly figuring shit out, making shit up, solving problems as you go, right, I mean I set up the first personal training center in Australia and the second and the third. Right, So I was working in an industry that didn't exist, Like, there was no PT industry, there was no insurance, there was no accreditation, and I was fucking every day just
making it up. And then eventually you develop ideas and systems and practices and protocols that work, and then other people get on board and then oh, now this is the thing that was not a thing, the thing that was just a mental construct is now a thing that people are interfacing within the real world. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting how it all, Yeah, it all comes together. What was that book's sapiens.
Have you read that?
Yeah, I've read a bit of it. I've got it and I haven't finished it, but.
Yes, in there it just talks about business.
It's just like it's just a you can't even explain what it is like, it's literally just an idea.
But then everybody build around that idea.
There's no trade Mud, there's no thing. You can't go and touch it, you can't talk see it. But it's just this yeah, idea that it's been created, and there's story and a journey behind it and sort of a vision for it.
It's interesting how it kind of comes together.
Before you tell us about the genesis or the origin story or about it and the journey. Tell us what trade mud is?
Trade Mud it's a social impact work where company by Trades for traders make a range of funky high veers and other products to help spark conversations and create larger connections among the blue collar community and a cohort to in turn allow more help seeking behavior and encourage more people to seek early intervention mental health counseling.
I'm wearing a shirt right now and on the back it says this shirt is a conversation starter.
Yes, yes, I can see you've got a flannel on there. I can see the wine pocket looks great.
You have you ever seen anything looking so good in one of your products?
Be honest, it's all color coded with the room you're in and everything. You look fantastic?
Am I handsome? What was the I know the answers to some of these questions, but our listeners don't so tell us about the origin story, like what was the spark that lit the trademart fire? Like what where did it come from?
Yeah?
So originally Dan and I were, as I said, working on job sites in Brisbane. We were spending a lot of time together because he was just starting work for the same builder as I was.
I was starting my apprenticeship and he came on as a.
Carpenter and we were lumped together as a new two new guys. He spent just long hours in the brizzy sun talking about things we want to do when we're not doing carpentry.
And one of those one of those ideas was why has no one changed to work where?
Was no one ever done anything with high of his work where or just standing work where? It just seemed odd that no one had done anything that was just
an idea we've had a conversation about one day. And then at the end of twenty fifteen, Dan lost one of his best mates to suicide one weekend, and there's a ted talk online that that Dan talks about in more depth, but in short, you know, Dan had been chatting to his mate on the Thursday, learned that he was starting Mature Age Company apprenticeship on the Monday, and
you Saturday never started that started that job. And sort of in the weeks and months it followed, you know, Dan shining up to work, putting on the brave face, me trying to figure out one how to support my mate. I never knew Dan's mate that took his life, but it was just kind of that gray period after that to try and you know, I suppose navigate.
That time and do it kind of good.
And then yeah, as I said that, the months after that, we're just conversing about why was no one really talking about this?
What was suicide?
What we're talking about there, It's like, why is no one talking about this suicide? Then how it was happening, and then looking into the statistics and being like, Okay, there's a lot of blokes that are doing this and a lot of these blokes that are doing it are fourteen to forty four, Like holy shit, like we're twenty We were twenty six and whatever it was at that stage.
So we're like, oh, look crap, like we're right in the middle of this.
And again, these weren't conversations any of us were having, our mates were having. And so I looked at the mental health space and just realized that, wow, it is dark and gloomy. And I remember when we're even having conversations around people around suicide or mental healtheople would often be saying, oh, you can't say that, or that might trigger someone, or this is and you're.
Like, holy fuck, well what can you say?
And all of a sudden, you're like, no, wonder, no one's saying anything because no one knows what they can or can't say, and everyone thinks that if you say one thing, all of a sudden, everyone's just going to start taking their own life. It's like, holy fuck, that's not reality. And then looking at the way that's mental health lack of a better term. Organizations sort of were marketing themselves.
Out there, you know, the.
Bustshelter at the dimly lit room and the bloke there with his head in his hands.
It's kind of like trying to personified depression.
And you know, as we were saying, it's like, well, fuck, that's not what it looks like like. People may feel like that, but you know, you don't know. People are walking around fine, and then all of a suddeny're not here, so it definitely doesn't look like that. Yes, and so if it doesn't look like that, people aren't going to want to associate with that. So again it's kind of like we were like, well, it's not inviting. There's this big gap between there's this big issue these people doing stuff,
and then the middle ground, which is everyone else. It was like, well, how do you kind of fill that pipeline? And basically look back to the work where peace learn about what social enterprise was and profit for purpose and we were like, shit, we can start a business, get us off the tools, do the work or idea we had, but also have a social change purpose to it where we can make a real change to society and actually start some conversations about mental health and well being. And
so that's basically where Trademark started. And that was yeah, fifteenth March twenty eighteen.
It's amazing mate. Good for you. What I mean, I'm sure there's been a million, But what are the key takeaways not for the business, but for you just as a bloke in terms of what do you know now that you didn't know? I'm sure you could talk about that for an hour, but you personally, like, what do you now get that you had no fucking idea about?
Man? Where do you even start?
Like we've I mean, I say, were you because of Dan and I have been on this whole learning and the get go right, like like we've learned just so much.
It's not it's not only about us trying to navigate and figure out the mental health landscape and how to reframe it and make it more appealing to more people, but also our own mental health and well being while trying to grow a business higher staff and Dan often talks about how that you know, we're not immune to it either, Like we go through the same stresses and everything as everyone else. It's just because the work of mental health doesn't mean.
We've got it nailed. Far from it.
A lot of the time, it's like it's it's a it's a constant, a constant learning curve.
And a hyper learning.
Curve, as I was saying, and I mean yeah, I mean for me personally that the biggest thing I've learned is that you can you can get a lot, you can get a fair bit done over a couple of years. Like the amount of stuff can actually get done is quite quite incredible. And the journey that we've been on since we arded to where we're at now, the thing that I've learned the most is like where our time and just consistency and continually, like you were saying earlier, problem solving, Yeah you can.
You can really move some mountains for sure.
One did you get any That's a weird question, but I just I wonder did you get any pushback from people who are like, no, where the professionals leave it to us, fuck off with you and your shirts?
No, Because we were never saying that we knew anything right. We were putting power to the people. Really, We're just trying to empower people to have more ability to have a conversation. That's all it was. And to be honest, if we could make workshirts that were funky, Larry and fun we were hoping people are going to buy them
for that anyway. But it also has this message behind it, you know, kind of like I suppose who gives a crap they make toilet paper and it's good give probits away, and so in a way we were doing that and what we've gotten who now is realizing really the impact the shirts are having is far profound than the fifty percent of the profits we give to TAX every year. Trade that as a community is doing and as a brand is doing really unbeknowns to us, is just incredible.
Like the amount of people that are.
Having conversations at hard conversations and ranges of interaction with people daily which they otherwise wouldn't have because of a bit of cotton with a funky print on it and a logo across the back is wild.
It's so cool.
What is tax?
So Tax is a professional text and call counseling service for trade.
His truck is.
Farmers, Rural blue collar workers and their loved Ones. Provides free and ongoing early intervention mental health counseling.
And it was created.
After Dan and I quickly realized that the shirts were starting conversations and then people were going, Okay, I've had a conversation with a mate, or I've had a conversation and I feel as though I need more support.
Where do I go?
And again to that kind of gap that we were speaking to earlier, it was the well, yeah, well fuck, where do you go? I said, well, you don't lifeline because you're not about to kill yourself. You're just not well right, And it's like it was this big gap. And so for Dan and I we were like, Okay, well we've got to go and get on go to a GP, get on a mental health plan, find a counselor or a psychologist.
Book in blah blah blah blah blah.
And so that was the process that he and I had to go through to get our psychologists. And we're like, it's an arduous task, it's expensive, and as we know, if it's not easy, most people won't do it.
So if we want people to be able.
To access professional support early, they aren't getting.
To the point of crisis.
Fuck, we're going to make this as easy as possible. And so we just thought, why don't we just hire some psychologists or counselors and just if the phone rings, they can answer it.
And so that was the genesis basically of tax and it's yeah, grown.
Into an organization that was after being founded in twenty twenty now has yeah, twelve counselors and they're supporting over five hundred and fifty clients a quarter on average four sessions. Seventy five percent of our calls are male. And the big point of difference yet up I said earlier, was that you speak to the same counselor every time. And so we've just removed the physical, financial, and social barriers that have existed for people to access early intervention professional counseling.
And it's text and call Monday to Friday. It's just as easy as.
That's amazing, And they don't pay for that. People don't pay for that.
No one pays for no one, no one using it pays for it. We've got fifty percent of our profits every year go into it as a range of other organizations which make up the Tax Alliance, which is an industry based funding model that people or sorry organizations fund either a full time counselor or part there off on a twelve month contract so that we can hire our base of clinicians and.
Continue to provide that support to the community.
That's amazing, and how do you so, how do you and I know, Dan's your best mate. But it's like when I owned my gyms, I employed, over time, hundreds of people. I had three gyms and a couple of other businesses which were all standalone businesses, and I employed a few friends and sometimes that was great and sometimes it wasn't. How do you how do you and your best mate go working? But do you ever punch on or do you ever crack the ships?
We've never never thrown a punch.
We've yeah, absolutely been through the ups and downs of any relationship under pressure without a doubt. We often say that, yeah, if we're going to get divorced, would have got divorced a long time ago.
Yeah, we're pretty good.
At managing our conflict now and for where it was, I mean, we're probably at the point now in the I suppose marathon where we've ironed out the cramps and we know, like we know where the pain points already are, so you can actually jump on the on the mid logue.
And their relationships are yeah, far easy to manage now than it was through the growth period because there's so much going on, Like, you know, you're not you haven't been mates that long, so you don't know each other that well personally, and you're also trying to grow business that you both don't know how to run, and you're both making decisions together or individually all the time. You're
managing staff, you're managing cash flow. It's like everything is there could be going wrong, is going wrong, and you're still trying to do all that. And at the same time, you know, he's got relationships outside of work. You know, I've got married when we while starting trademark.
There's just so much goes on, right, Yeah, and we've just.
Been very good over the years of just learning how each other operate and how we operate the best and kind of working by ourselves the best way we can and then collaborating the best ways we can as well. So, yeah, it's been it's been unbelievable.
And do you kind of go, hey, mate, you're really good at this. I'm not bad at this stuff. So you do you do that, I'll do this. That's the best use of our talent, time, skill and energy. Or do you go let's both do everything. How does that work? No, it is getting the most out of you both.
Sorry, Yeah, you kind of just get to a point where it kind of evenly splits off.
You know, Dan's very he's much more a lot more kind of I suppose.
Deep thinking, a motive around brand message and tone of voice and everything like that.
So he's always kind of been closer to the social media marketing side, I would say.
And then and obviously he's you know as am I, but he's more of the champion of the brand because it's his story, was his mate. And then I've obviously been there to supporting through the journey of the business, and then it's kind of our story of the organization. And then yeah, I suppose on my side, I've yeah, kind of picked up the rest of it that I've enjoyed doing, which is, yeah.
Sales and business development and networking and.
Yeah, my finance isn't the greatest, greatest thing, but someone's got to do it. So yeah, you know, we've had a we've had a pretty good even split and it's just yeah, enjoying the ride.
Really, what do you reckon? Are some of the biggest misconceptions that people have about mental health in general? Like what don't what don't a lot of people understand? Do you reckon.
Misconceptions?
Oh, I think it's I actually think it's mental health organizations as a whole are the ones that are creating the issue for the individuals when they create statistics. Actually saw one at the airport coming home yesterday. It was like forty five percent of people have a mental health issue in their life. It's like, fuck me, It's like, no way, everyone. Every one hundred percent of humans will have a mental health issue at some stage in their life.
One hundred percent.
I agree. I agree.
That is the sort of shit where it's like, it's it.
I don't know why they do it. I just don't know why they do it. But those statistics just do more harm than good in my opinion, in a lot of ways, and really the opinion of our business, we just do not do statistics. We've never done statistics. It's like we've all got it. We've all got mental health. We need to be actively working on it. It's never perfect, it's never right. It's like it's like anything your relationship with yourself.
And in your head. It's just a continuum of work that's required.
And the idea that oh, some people get it and some people don't, it starts such a croc of shit.
So yeah, that's the main misconception is with my point, what.
Do you really think? Stop fucking holding back.
But it is just it is just interesting. It is interesting. That's messaging.
I think. Also, like, you know, there's no three step planned right for mental health, because mental health is a million well not a million, but it's a hundred different things, right, and how it shows up for one person shows up differently. You know, someone's grieving, somebody's anxious, somebody is a fucking chronic oversleeper. Someone can't sleep because they're scared. Somebody is fucking obsesses about what everyone think of them because they're insecure.
And other people you know, agoraphobic, and other people don't want to whatever, you know, they're terrified to be in a relation. Like, there's so many things that that are different expressions of mental health issues. And then even if you've got somebody with you know, if you and me had the same or very similar issue, what's going to work best for me probably won't work best for you because you're not me and I'm not you totally.
There's no that's for sure.
And that's like, yeah, I suppose Also a lot of the misconceptions around mental health and well being is the stuff you see on social media. The gurus out there like you gotta do this, and you got to do that. It's like no, no, no, you got to go out and try heat different things and find the thing that suits and works for you and works for you at that time, because those things change, you know what I mean.
And so yeah, if it's not serving and serving you, well, well then piss it off and try something else, you know what I mean.
That's that's probably the most important part.
I think. So we had a lady on a couple of times. I think her name's Rachel Hope. Is that right, Tiff? Do you remember the lady, the grief lady who wrote
Lessons from Grief for anyway? It's Rachel, Yeah, anyway. She lives in coins and also a gun, and her husband died when she was thirty some two or three, and obviously heaps of stuff there, young children, husband passes away, And you know, we were talking once about how people think there's like this fucking five step or there are five steps in grief or there you know, there are four levels, and and people get in trouble for not grieving properly. Oh you're not crying? What is wrong with
you? You should be crying? How about you fuck off with your theories, right, how about I don't want to cry or I don't feel like crying, or maybe I cry all the time, but not when you're around you know, it's like there's like you're doing it wrong. You know, you're doing your mental health rock box.
Yeah, you're going to fit in this box. Yeah yeah.
Yeah.
So, I mean I don't know how we navigate that. And so in terms of the brand and the business and the you know, the social work that you're doing or the what you call it. It's not a social impact work. It's not a charity, but it's kind of you know, in the old days, see actually the charity, right charity? Yeah, how do you how do you figure out you know, like the next one two five years? Is it very much do it as you go organic?
I mean you must have something of a vision and a strategy moving forward.
Yeah, it's I would say that's the biggest kind of challenge for us is that.
When people like you, you know, chatting earlier, it's going to like, you know, what are.
You guys doing is great?
And you're getting lots of pats in the back and it's all good, and lots of people are coming to lots of different ideas.
As well, and we could do this, So we could.
Do that, and there's a range different things we could do, and people are telling you you should do this, you
know what I mean. I had a phone call today with an organization that are doing something and they're like wanting to collaborate, and I mean, we could do it, but what it would do is take us away from what we do and do well with trademark, which is we make awesome work where that is making a really big difference among the blue collar community in creating connection and conversations about mental health and well being on a
consistent basis. So like anytime that we're not doing more of that, well, we're really doing ourselves a disservice because that's the main thing. That's what's really got us here, And we're going to become really good at saying no and sticking to.
The path and the piece to the organic growth.
Which you were saying, is really important that we're going along the lines of listening to our community and where we can be better to better serve them and grow that community. I think is probably the main thing we need to be doing. And also through our learnings filling in the gaps of where there's you know, basically.
A knowledge gap. And so for and I, we've like.
So strongly understood that there's a gap that currently exists really between trademard and tax.
There is a gap between there, and so we've got an.
Organization that we're not far from launching which will be a training entity because there's a lot of businesses out there that love trademark, they love tax, but they really want us to come out and talk. So us coming out and talking is fine. But you can watch Dan's ten to fifteen minutes, you know what I mean, Like,
you can just watch that all of it. Or we could go out and do a half day session where people can better understand themselves, better understand their workmates, better understand that everything about like, better understand who they are and the business they're in, and that will bridge the gap further between trademark and tax. And so having people with ye a better understanding of themselves and those around them is only going to be beneficial. And we can
see that as like the next must do. So I suppose you're organically going with the flow, but picking up and filling the holes where we can see it and where we think we can do a good job of it.
Yeah, makes total sense to how do you go?
Was it?
Rachel Pope? Sorry, Rachel, it's been a while, it's been a minute, and I do mate a few people. I think also, you made a really good point, right, and I think that is figuring out how many things can we do really well? Because there's a point, like, there's a point where stuff just turns to shit. It's like you I used to I used to call it two
things your performance threshold or your shit threshold. And with my trainers, I would literally ask them how many sessions of PT can you do per day with your clients? And all of them be great, like the best you And if you can only do three of those, then three is your limit. If you can do ten, then
ten your limit. Because I think you get to a point where when things are going well, rather than consolidating or tweaking and refining, you can go, oh, let's do this as well, and then you end up doing thirteen things badly, not five things well.
Absolutely, yeah, yeah for sure. And so that's kind of where we've got to with both organizations and tax especially. It's kind of like, oh, people are like oh, will you be twenty four hours? So well, we could be twenty four hours, but then we're not going to be an early intervention counting service because who's ringing a counselor for a session at two.
In the morning.
Yeah, no, one, yeah, yes, And.
So for us it's we've really yeah, got to stick to our lane and stick to our ethos of why we're doing what we are doing and stand behind that because there's lots of organizations out there that's.
But I would say kind of panna to the dollar.
It's kind of like, well, this is on trend, and if we do that well, then we're probably more likely to pick up more funding, whereas we're kind of going the other way where.
We're like, we do what we do really.
Fucking well, and so if you don't want to fund this, we're not going to change so we can get your funding, we recommend you go give you money to X, Y and Z, which is both a blessing and a curse at times. But yeah, it's just sort of sticking to our to our guns there because we just want to be the best at what we do, and we're pretty confident that we are, and we just want to do more of that.
How do you manage you?
Oh, I mean I like to take Well, we just had to trip. My wife and I just had a trip to Europe for four weeks.
That was nice.
We haven't had a break since our well proper holiday since our honeymoon six years ago.
So that was really good.
But in regards to me managing myself, very I'm a very big structure guy.
Yeah, gym in the morning, brecking.
With my wife in the morning, and then yeah, into work and yeah, just not over not over committing myself, always putting time in throughout the year to take breaks either a week or two weeks here or there, got stuff outside of outside of work with mates and family. And yeah, basically I'm pretty good at switching off from work, which is good. And yeah, saying no, I'll become pretty good at saying no, that's for sure good.
What are the if I get too personal ten minute fuck off? What are they? What are the alarm bells for you personally? If you feel like like if you're starting to get a little bit fried, or you're starting to be a bit five out of ten, not nine out of ten, and your body or your heart or your whatever is going hoy mate, just fucking steady on for a while. What's happening?
Normally it's I Normally I just get like exhausted, like I'm just fucking routed tired.
So that's probably the first one.
The second one is, yeah, my fuse just gets a bit short, So that's that's a pretty telltale sign.
And what else If I'm if I'm.
Not if I'm not confident in myself, like, if I'm not confident that I'm going to achieve something and achieve it in the way that I want to, that's normally a telltale sign tour needs to ease up and have a bit of a break or a reframe or or.
Change something up. Normally, Yeah, if I'm losing confidence, that's probably a bit of a figure or alarm bell for me.
Well, mate, I won't hold you up. You're doing really good stuff. Congratulations, I heard about you, bronwin.
Who on of course, of course, of course.
Fucking raves about you.
I love it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she helps us out down the warehouse, Bronze.
She's great, she is great, she's one hundred and so she sent me this, which was very nice of her or whoever, but beautiful, my shirt and tell people how they can help get involved support in whatever that looks like that you guys need.
Yeah. Yeah, So I suppose the first thing is, yes, there's any traders, truck is, farmer's, blue collar workers or they're loved ones listening. They can access TAX Monday to Friday, eight am to ten pm four triple eight four six nine double eight, and highly recommend people reaching out just to understand how it works and speak to one of our counselors directly. We say that all the time, you're not going to take it off anyone. We've got a really good trio system.
So don't worry about that. Yeah, if you're an.
Organization that's looking for a new organization to jump behind and fund, yeah, TAX is always keen to chat to more corporate partners.
And yeah, if businesses.
Want to jump on board trade mut and start funky shirt Fridays, then yeah, trade mut dot com.
And we can we can help out with all your work where needs.
It's pretty you're not a farmer, tip for a min or, a trade or a truckie because you're a lot of issues. Maybe you could just be you know, a temporary like a part time truckie.
Oh yeah, my hand is raised, ready to tap into these resent you.
Get on board, he ed. It's been a pleasure from this end anyway. Thank you so much for chatting with us. We'll say goodbye off air, but for the minute. Thanks for being on the You project.
Thanks Greig, thanks to you. Appreciate it.