I get a team. It's another installment of the new Project, of course it is. That's why you press play. Tiffany and Cook and doctor Lillian Narde and me Fatty Harps in the flannel shirt in the middle of this particular screen. Where am I on your screen? Tiff middle bottom, top and left right.
And speak of you, so you're like, boom, you're the big one, and then everyone else just sits up in a.
Row up top.
I never have that. I like to be able to see what everyone's face is doing in the middle of the chat.
I like that too. Greg. I've got you on the left, yeah, yeah, yeah, Jef's on the bartom.
I got you on the right, and Tip on the left, So a little horizontal grab. We'll start with Cook. How are you.
I'm very good. Thanks, Happy Monday?
Yeah, happy Monday. Happy? Did you Oh you didn't see the old man because he's in another state. Did you give him a virtual cuddle or did you call him? Or what did you do?
Both of the above? I gave him a virtual cuddle and then I gave him a call.
How is the old bugger?
Yeah?
He's good, he's good. He's got some good stuff on.
Sy Yeah, well, it's dad now seventy four.
You know how I get stuck on aug So he's been seventy one for bad for years now. My brother stayed at forty six for a banded dicad.
Yeah, yeah, that's funny. My kids had me stuck on forty for like eight years. I don't know how that happened, but I was like super psyched about it.
That's probably because you were telling him constantly I'm forty.
No I wasn't. Oh not really, No didn't come. No, didn't come for me. They just, I don't know, mathematically talented. But then my my husband was turning fifty and my son came up to me in an earshot of my husband and was like, Mom, why did you marry such an old man? Oh?
That is hilarious.
My husband did not like that, and so he told everyone my age and I was like, why did you have to do?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, do you think? Oh? I know, I'm not going to ask it. I'm going to ask one question because I know it's your show today, doctor Lilian as the host today, be brief, do you think women are more likely to lie about their age than dudes? Okay, I thought I knew the answer. I just didn't want to be presumptuous.
Oh no, I think it's Societally, women have not been allowed to age, you know, and still be acceptable and visible and you know, seen as. I don't know, like I think that's changing, but I think that women were conditioned to try to stay and young and pretend that they were younger to other people, just so that they could still be relevant, which is sad, but I think it's true.
I dated a guy for about eight months and didn't know that he was like eight years older than he told me he was until I was at his parents place for his birthday and his brother's like, so, how old is Scott said?
He is really interesting? Interesting?
And how old was he at his birthday? And how old? Well? If we know answer A, we know answer?
B Oh god, I can't remember. I feel like early thirties and he was like thirty eight.
Right, Yeah, so he was he told you he was thirty and he was thirty eight.
Yeah, ludacrous.
Well he's a big fucking fiver, isn't he. If you knew he was that age when you met him, would you have gone out with him?
Yeah?
Yeah, there you go.
That was a silly guy.
There was a waste of time and energy on his behalf hole. And then when he got caught, you probably thought he was a dick.
Yeah, but then we matched on a dating app again years later, and I was like, Bro, you're still lying about your age lot about your age for so long.
I don't even remember how old you are.
I think it's hlabarous. That is hilarious.
I think that does actually happen a lot on dating apps. People are lying about their aid. Apparently men lie about their height.
Yeah, See, dudes care about their height a lot more than how I don't ask me why I'm middle of the right. I'm not sure I'm not tall, but I think, yeah, dudes seem to care about that. I don't think men. Well, I'm pretty sure men don't love being short, just like women don't like being I guess some women seen as being old. But like I, like you said, I think that's changing. But what I do think is funny about
dating sites. Allegedly, I've never been one on one hand, on heart, on my mum's life, never been on one. But it seems like even on social media, people put up the best photo that's ever been taken of them ever in the history of their life, and it's fucking eleven years old. And then they turn up to a date and the poor unsuspecting potential boyfriend or girlfriend is like, God, looks like their mom turned up or their dad turned up. Like,
they look nothing like that, am and joy saw. So my theory is put up a somewhere between average and not very good current photo and then if you still get interest, they're definitely not going to be disappointed, maybe even pleasantly surprised.
Yeah, and you know that that's not a new thing, because I remember my mother in law telling me about how because she came over on a ship to meet her husband Wow, because his brother found her in the village and was like, oh, you'd be a good wife for my husband. And she wanted to leave her life and start something new and it was an adventure. But she was lucky that the picture was accurate. But she had a lot of stories, yeah, about women who had
been given these photos of young men. Yeah, and went over and you know their husband to be or like sixty seventy eighty years old. You know that's you know, obviously, looks isn't the only thing you want the personality to be good as well. You know, you're coming over on a ship for months and then you're basically stranded here like unless someone's looking after you. So that's yeah. So this lying thing about how you look and who you are and how old you are, it's it's not new, it's.
Not new, all right, So today what is happening everyone is Lillian is throwing questions at me. So I'm just getting up out of my chair now and walking over to the other side of the table that Jape suits Billian's just moving graciously like a gazelle into the number one seat, And all right, so thanks for doing this. This is a fun idea, your idea, I might add, So if the questions are terrible, we're not playing them.
Yeah. Well, I don't think it was my idea. Actually it was Kelly. Was it your idea that someone Kelly you? And then Kelly did the interview and I listened to it. I loved her questions, and I loved those episodes.
Yeah, she has good questions.
And then when I told you that, you know, I listen to it and I liked it. You're like, oh, why don't you interview me?
And I was like, oh there you go.
Really, so what was your idea? Actually?
All right? Then, all right, then I'm going to give.
You credit where credits due, but don't get used to it.
Okay, okay, Well I feel privileged. And if you're going to jump in for the questions that I can't answer, you, Matt, you can jump.
In if you like. That's totally fine. I actually really like it when you are jumping in and we're giving you a piece of the puzzle.
Yeah, we heard about you two wanted to do your own show without me before we pressed record?
Yeah, I mean Tiffany, you know great, she's got a great things to say. I love it, you know, don't be so competitive, Craig geez. All right, So today, dear, I try to be on my own show.
What is wrong with me? No?
Today, it's not your show, you know?
Yep?
Sure, I'm ready to settle into your cheap seat.
I should have got a bean bag for this.
I'm going to run things a little bit differently as well.
So she's taken well and truly taking over.
I'm going to take over. So I wanted to start with some quick fire questions just to kind of get the ball rolling and to see what your answers are by instinct and not have a distinct through things and all of that. So we'll just do a few of those. Ready, However many I feel like, are you ready?
Originally originally it was five and now it's however, all.
Right, ready, they're they're not They're not difficult, They're just ready. People know you better, hopefully, Okay, coffee.
Or tea coffee to be indecisive, here we go. All right, I'm just going to go with coffee. Such hard questions, so I didn't know I need more prepped on.
All right, all right? Beach or mountains?
Beach?
Eminem's are smarties?
Neither That is incorrect, wouldn't they either?
The answer is Eminem's Okay, okay, VEG you might or peanut butter.
Peanut butter, yes, very good.
Favorite season.
Spring, so right now, yeah, a little bit four weeks from now, but in the middle of spring.
Google or chat ept chat is, oh, there you go. I agree. Comedy or drama.
If it's good comedy, No drama. I love comedy, but I think most comics are not funny. So drama.
So follow up questions how much TV do you.
Watch in a day? Not much so at the most an hour I don't watch television.
Yeah, that's pretty that's okay.
Most like most days fifteen minutes when I get in bed while I'm falling asleep.
So below average, way below average. I think the average is like three or four hours a day. Yeah, yeah, I know it seems like a lot, But then when you actually think about your own behavior, it's like, no, I pretty much do that favorite show, another.
Follow up favorite show like lifetime favorite show or all right, so this is gonna this is doing myself for this service. I like The Big Bang Theory because it's just like it's all right, it's about a bunch of geniuses or genie I, but it's funny and it's silly. Growing up, I loved you know, I loved it, Like mash was one of my favorite TV shows. Yeah in was it the Vietnam Vietnam War, Korean Korean more that's right, earlier
than Vietnam, yep. And yeah, I mean a bunch of shows like I used to love House, the Doctor Show where he's like a medical detective. The Blacklist for a while was freaking amazing, but nothing that I go that's my all time Yeah. Favorite.
So there's a real mix of comedy and drama. Then yeah, yeah, all right, would you rather go to the movies or a concert?
Movies?
Interesting? What was the first time that you ever went to?
Ah, maybe the Eagles, Oh in Melbourne, Jackson Brown, James Taylor, Like I'm old school, like I love old seventies, sixties, seventies, eighties. Yeah, Eagles live back first time were pretty amazing.
Yeah, I can imagine. What about you, Tiffany, what was the first concert you'd ever gone.
To Robbie Williams?
Well? Really, yeah? Was it recent or was it a long time ago?
It was a long time ago, maybe early two thousands sometime, I'd say, well mid two thousands. I wasn't even a fan, and I was the biggest fan ever after that constant.
Yeah, he's very good in concert. Yeah, I only saw him recently, like when he was here last and again I wasn't I'm not a massive fan, like I've liked maybe three of the songs. But when I saw him play at the AFL was at the Grand Final a few years ago, I was like, Oh, I think I might want to go to wisconcert. That would be fun, And it was great. It was so fun.
I think he is.
And he's also a really good mental health advocate as well. He's he's been talking about mental health, his mental health openly for many, many years, even before the more recent documentaries and movies. So yeah, I really liked that about him. He's really open.
What was the worst content you went to? And no, it's not my day, but just one question either of you. So you went, what the fuck is this? Okay?
And saw Rayla Montaigne, who I loved his music, but he was at the Art Center and it was a total mismatch and a total letdown. You know when a performer just doesn't fill the space.
Yeah, yeah, what about when you hear someone and they're compared to their record voice? Yes, yes, live voices are three and you're like, fuck, did you even sing on that album? Because it was arable?
Yeah, that happened to me recently. I go to a lot of concerts. I really enjoy going to concerts, and I've taken my daughter who's eighteen to like ten at least already. But the recent one that was really bad, which was a shame, was a New Order. Do you remember a New Order? From back? And I love them? And not boy band, not new Addition, New order, like the new wave band, like you know, they played.
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Definitely not new addition, but like around the depeche Mode days, like that kind of era. But yeah, no, his voice was horrendous. Please you're ruining yourselves. Yeah, but yeah. My first concert was actually Kenny Rogers really good, yeah, amazing. Yeah.
Like look, I grew up in Dover, Delaware, which is kind of small town USA, and my parents were immigrants and they listened to Kenny Rogers and Dolly Parton and Elvis Presley and my parents were meant to go to that concert, but I think my they might have had an argument that evening and so my dad took me instead. So it ended up being moth firstconcert, and I think I was like twelve wow, And the Oakridge Boys opened. I don't even know if you guys know who that is.
Yeah, I know of them.
Yeah. They sang a song called Elvira.
Yeah they were never big here, but.
Yeah, look them up. It's a really funny song. You should have definitely listened to it.
One of my first jobs was in nineteen eighty two in Liverpool Street one one six Liverpool Street, Hobart working for a company that was then called Brashes, Brashes and Allen's, which was a music store my old man ran. He was the state manager for the company. And yeah, that was my first job out of school, was working selling music, selling instruments, selling tapes, selling LPs, old days before CDs
were even a concept. So yeah, and back in those days heaps of Kenny Rodgers and all the old school guys and girls.
Yeah, so sorry, he plays as well? Yeah do you No? Totally does for How long have you have you been playing?
Since I was six?
Oh? Wow? Do you sing? No?
He's got a very good singing not even joking it actually got a really good for singing voice.
I can sing a bit and play a bit. Little secret, I'm definitely not, you know. I love for me. I'd rather play by myself than for someone, and so would that someone probably, But it's like for me, music's very therapeutic. I listened to music a lot, So when I say I'd rather go to a movie than a concert sounds weird for me. But I've just been disappointed in a bunch of concerts, and I think it's very rare that they sound as good as they do. In my ears with headphones.
If you were to get go to a concert where it sounded exactly how you want it to sound, what concert would you be going to?
Well, I've been to it. Jackson Brown. I love Jackson Brown. A lot of people like, who's that? Yeah? Just my favorite singer songwriter of all time. You know, diustrates Mark Knopfler. He has not a great voice, but he has a great sound. And dire Straits were fucking amazing. The Eagles were amazing. Cool Joe Walsh who was part of the Eagles,
Glenn Frye, all those dudes. I've got this crazy bird at my window that keeps, like right now as we're talking, flying into the window, headbutting it away, flying in, flying in, and then flapping his wings against the window. I'm like, bro, you're going to give yourself concussion. Stop it. What is that about? Is it routine season or something?
What is it?
I don't know, what's what's the what's the name of it? TIFFs like, there's I don't know, there's a season where birds go nuts? Maybe no, definitely, don't get me talking about you know.
Nature, more quick fire and then I'm on to the good questions, right, all right? Favorite swear word. I know, there's a lot to choose from.
Yeah, I didn't have to be fucked just because it's the Swiss army knife of you know, speaking. You know, it's the all purpose multi tool that you can just slot in. But the funny thing is about fuck or fucking or fucked or fuck you is that it can be so many Like, it can be surprised, it can be like a compliment. Yeah, it can be to scare someone, It can be yeah, yeah, there is this multipurpose.
There's this Finnish comedian and I can't remember his name right now, but maybe some of you have heard of him where he talks about the English language and like he'll use a word like you, fucker shit or just a regular.
Someone seen that dude too.
It's really good. He's really good. We saw him when he was here. Actually, all right now, I wanted to go back to Kelly's interview, just because she had some great questions about all sorts of things. Sure, how did you actually find the experience of being interviewed on your show?
Yeah, I'd like it as long as I've done cheesy interviews, which I hate.
You know, so, so you've hated this so far.
Now you're going, okay, But you know, when people go because of my background and stuff, people go essentially, what's the best way to lose weight? Craig, And I'm like, ah, fuck, I don't want to be here, you know. Or so Craig, how do we stay motivated? Well, John, we fucking don't ask a better question.
I love that answer.
It's like, you know, you know, when like there's a question and there's not a single answer to that question because there are so many variables. It's like, what's the best way for a woman to exercise? Well, that is the dumbest, most ignorant, yeah, you know, probably insensitive question too. It depends on a million variables, So tell it to forget male or female. Just tell me about the person.
Tell me all about their physiology, their medical stuff, their current level of condition, their genetics, what they want to do, their goal. You know, it depends on twenty things. Rock bottoms. So yeah, yeah, I.
Think that people often want that easy, kind of formulaic answer. I think maybe it's those those kinds of answers sell better or sound better, and so that's what they're wanting. But it's not the real it's not the right answer.
I disagree. I reckon when you listen, it's fucking terrible like it. I agree with you in that it's good to get soundbites, Craig, what's the best way to do this? And that's the SoundBite, right well, that's the that's the hook. But you know, it's like you and I and Tiff chatting right now. I'm not saying this is this is the high watermark for you know, engaging an audience. But I don't know what you are going to ask me. I didn't ask you what you're going to ask me.
I didn't say send through any questions. I just said let's go, you know, And I think that for but like, I know, you've got questions that you've written out in terms of your planning, but you don't have a script, and you might ask half of them, you might ask a quarter of them, you might ask five questions you didn't write, because you can be in the moment and kind of read the room and understand, like I might open a door that's interesting that you didn't think i'd open,
and you're like, fuck, let's keep going in that room. Yeah, you know, So there's that. I think my constant thinking whether I'm doing a keynote or a workshop or a podcast still whatever, or someone else's show is how do I make this something that people really want to listen to and is relevant and engaging. And people stop listening at the end and go, that was really good, you know, if it's just like and they don't even need to
know why. But like Patrick and Tiff and I do a show which is meant to be about technology and it just ends up being about you know, dick jokes and carbs and bullshit and then a little bit of technology thrown in. But if we get constant or I get constant feedback about that saying, and even though it's almost a show about nothing, people love it because it's funny, it's very real. Some people would hate it, by the way, Yeah, they just go, yeah, I don't know why, but I
love listening to you three dickheads just bang on. It's really entertaining. Yeah, but you could, like, we couldn't script what we do because everybody's just in the moment.
Yeah. And I think when you have like that, that relationship where you guys really know each other, you can it's really easy to do that. I think that's great, all right, here's one. This is one that just came up while I was listening to you and Kelly, Yep, what is the biggest lie you told yourself about yourself when you were young? And when did you discover it wasn't true?
I'm still discovering it. It was basically that I'm not good enough, smart enough, anything enough to be all the things I would like to have been, you know, like, yeah, so the constant life for me was I'm not smart enough, attractive enough, athletic enough, creative enough, likable enough, lovable enough. And there was no real self pity. I just thought that, Like I really thought that. Yeah, I really thought that.
And then for me, just what moved the needle and what kind of turned on the light bulb a little bit was when I you know, I spoken about this too many times, but I just lost a whole lot of weight, and I went from really unfit to really very fit, and from really out of shape to really
in shape when I was fourteen fifteen. And then what was the most interesting was not the weight loss or the physiological change, but how people treated me after that and responded to me and interacted with me, and like the doors that opened, like you know, socially and emotionally, and yeah, sporting doors open. You know, I got opportunities to play when I never got an opportunity and I was not bad, so then I got opportunities to you know, kind of rise through the ranks a little bit. And yeah,
just that stuff. So I think, just my my self, sabotage my you know, ittybitish committee.
Yeah, I wonder log what does that say about like society too. I think I had a similar experience to you, where I felt very in some not globally not good enough, but in like some areas not good enough. Yeah. Yeah, I think when you're a teenager it's pretty universal, especially but then if you come out of that and like you were saying, you got fit and then you started getting attention, and then your self concept started to change.
And for me it was, yeah, you know that the ugly duckling to the you know, swan all of a sudden getting attention. What is actually happening? I don't understand this, Yeah, but like it shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't be that you're only accepted if you look a certain way or you know, are socially acceptable, and that is.
True, but what us saying is absolutely true. But I also think, yeah, but it's kind of irrelevant because that isn't how the world works. Like we want everyone to be valued the same and respected and loved, and you know, we want that. I want that. If that was if I could click my fingers and that was the world, boom, it's happening. But that isn't the world we live in, like like it or not want it or not hate it. Even more attractive people get more opportunities. Taller guys are
more attractive to women. Women say that all the time. Women are less attractive to short men. You know, people who have got some skill or super IQ or talent, they're more desirable, or they're more sought after, or they get more opportunities because of all that, you know, And so it's understandable, you know, and you oh the old birds pack. I'm on bro, I'm on a roll, just going someone else's window. But yes, I agree. And so for me, it wasn't that I changed how I thought
about myself so much. Is I started to come to understand that my problem wasn't my potential, not that I thought I was gifted, and it wasn't my possibilities or you know what I might do be create or but rather what I thought of myself. You know how I thought, Oh I thought I couldn't do those things. Then I got to the point where I realized, oh, I can do those things. I can, but I need to make sure my mind doesn't get in the way of my
possibilities and potential. And even now when I meet people, like you know, you can talk to someone and you go, this person's pretty fucking smart. Like they're pretty smart, you know, and it might not be in an academic intellectual way, but you know, like I had my best mate over this morning, Vinn, and you know, I've got a couple he's an electrician, I've got a couple of shoes I
need to fix. And I just watched him do his magic right, And it's a kind of intelligence that I don't have, Like he did stuff in five minutes that I couldn't do in five hours. Yet some people would think I'm a little bit smart. I go, well, depends on which room you put me in, Because put me in a certain room, I'm the dumbest motherfucker in the room. You know, Give me any kind of tool and you might as well go have a sleep because nothing will change anytime soon.
Yeah, And I think like that has a lot to do with how narrow our definitions can be of things. Yes, what does you know smart mean? Like, yeah, I think as you get older, and maybe as society evolves as well, the definition becomes much more broad and you can see like the different situations and our people can be smart in different ways. Or you know, you might apply gills in one situation and not be able to apply it in another. And I think that's the same for you know,
being intelligent, beauty. I think creativity. I had a very very narrow definition of creativity and maybe a lot of other people do too, I don't know, but this idea of like you're an artist, Like if creativity means you're an artist, you know, you can't sing or write music or draw or something like that. And so I always
said I wasn't creative. Let's say I'm just not created to the point where even on like an application to postgraduate school where they had like this thing where you're meant to get a recommendation from a professor, but my professor's like, no, I'm happy for you to just fill it all in yourself. And I was like okay, and it was like ranking like me on a few different things,
so research, creativity, blah blah blah. And because I, for some reason, I'm like the most honest person on earth, I'm like looking at each of them like, how am I? You know? How creative am I? And I put myself down for it?
Yeah?
Yes, And I'm like that that actually would have affected my admissions for sure, because I know that everybody else did not do they put themselves up. But it was because I really didn't think I was. And it has really only been in probably the last ten years or that. I'm like, no, I am, that's so silly. I am creative. I create things all the time, you know, even in the in the artistic side of like like taking photographs that's creative, but but like you know, I don't know,
designing it up that's creative. Creating online programs, been working out worksheets that are recording things that are going to good for my clients, you know, finding gaps and creating something out of nothing. That's all creative. But yeah, it just wasn't how I saw it. Well.
I think the collision or the intersection of collect and creativity is problem solving, right, And you think even in science, we're always trying to solve problems, we're always trying to understand something, We're always trying to ask the best question. Well,
that's creative, you know. And when I look at Mark, my training partner, who you wouldn't call typically creative, because I think a lot of and I'm being presumptive here, like is that like a lot of people think of creative as oh, he can or she can sing or dance or write or do poetry, and it's all these kind of artistic things, these expressions of creativity, whereas I
think most people are creative, just in different ways. Absolutely, if you can figure out how to navigate a complex into personal situation, well that's creativity because you're solving problems in real time and you know, and yes, there's some psych in there and some science in there, and some self awareness and situational awareness, but you realize you're heading in a direction this is not good, and then you figure out in the middle of that how you might
do better and produce better, and then you you know, you intervene with that knowledge, and then all of a sudden, you've gone from heading in a shit direction to a better direction and you've just saved a podcast or a pitch for a job or a business meeting or whatever it was. Yeah, that's creative.
It is like when you said that understanding and creativity leads to problem solving. I'm like, that's like literally the definition of therapy. That's what it is.
Well, you have to be creative, because you are. You know, you are putting what you know and understand alongside or in the moment intuition and awareness and then trying to come up with a practical feasible you know, intervention or solution of sorts for that in the visual and no one else. Yeah, that's very creative.
Yeah, I agree, I'm so creative.
You actually are. But I think the problem is not that we're not creative. I think it's that we have a very limited definition. It's like intelligence. It's like intelligence. Intelligence is so many more things than being good at school. Like I would say that intellect of itself, it doesn't rank as high for me as lots of other different kinds of intelligence, like practical intelligent intelligence, situational awareness, communication, you know, like just being able to adapt and survive.
That's its own kind of intelligence, you know, being able to write a song, being able to conceptualize something and then write a book you know, out of your head pre chat GPT and without ripping anyone off, like you literally like the first book I wrote and I'm not a joeniust but was twenty five years ago, and it was all about, you know, my experience are coming to understand that getting in shape is largely not a physical
process more a psychological and emotional and physical process. Because I'd worked with so many people and I've gained so much real world you know, on the ground at the coal Face experience, I just started to jot down all of the ideas and all of the learnings and that became a paragraph, and then a bunch of paragraphs, and then eventually chapters and then a book.
You know.
But that was that was the insection of you know, a little bit of intuition and paying attention to humans as well as figuring out how do I share these ideas in a way that are meaningful and super readable.
Yeah. No, I think we're definitely on the same page. And I think that can actually help solve a lot of problems. If when you're judging yourself, if you think about how you're defining whenever you're judging yourself, and think about different ways of defining it, broader ways of defining it. I think that's really helpful.
Do you know what else I think is an expression of creativity or an example and intelligence together is being able to, like, you know a lot of stuff, right, You've got a PhD. Your knowledge is profound compared to the average person in your field. I mean, compared to the average person in your field, I guess you're quite respected and somewhere near the top, I would think. But what I mean is you have a capacity to share what can be pretty complicated over people's head stuff in
a way that isn't complicated or over their head. So what you're doing is, in real time you are breaking down this this scientifical, psycho psychological construct or theory or whatever it is, into layman's terms so we can all not only understand it, but then maybe do something with it.
Yeah. I think that's yeah.
I agree, that's a gift, you know.
I think, well, I think it's well, it's thank you, but I think also it's Yeah, it's just about making things accessible to people. And like I think what you said before again about therapy being or I said that, but it was your definition of therapy having had to you know, be sit with I don't know, thousands of people in groups or individuals and tailor things to them. You kind of learn how to translate research evidence into
practical strategies. And then it's then it's about how do you, Yeah, how do you tailor it to people's not needs and wants, but like their preferences and their learning styles. And that's kind of what I feel like. That's the direction that I've gone and is just trying to create things that cater to as many people as possible and the way they want the information because we're all different.
Yeah, when people hit me up and ask me what do you doing your research on? Or what's your POHD about? And so I think, do I want to open the whole how you think, how you think about them, how they think about you, how you think they think about you? This kind of cognitive shit fest or this you know? And I say, well, let me let me explain it like this. I go, put up your hand if you've
ever heard your voice on an audio recording. And I've told this before, but put up your hand if you've ever heard you on a recording and people go, oh, my gosh, and then they raise their hand because they think they sound shit. Right, I put your hand and down, I go, Now, put your hand back up if you think you sound terrible, and all the hands go back up, and I go, well, the bad news for you is that's how we hear you all the time, right, And
that is true. What you think is that whiny, nasally unattractive voice that you heard on a recording, That is precisely what goes in our ears. So your version of you is not our version of you, even auditorially. So then we zoom back from just the listening experience to the whole experience. So you go, well, of course you get it wrong. Of course you do, because the only person who thinks like you is you, you know. And
there's even a name for that. And I go, there's a thing called false consensus effect, and that means that we just assume that people think like us. Well, that's a really fucking bad assumption because it's not true. Now, if you move forward in a conflict solution or you know, team meeting or whatever, operating on the assumption that everyone else in the room thinks like you. You'll produce more problems, more problems and solutions.
You know. Yeah, yeah, all right, Craig, tell me, what do you worry about.
I worry about my parents, that's it.
I don't.
Yeah, I don't want to die, but I don't. I don't overthink, you know how a lot of people that you know, Yeah, it's like back in, but it's not even that. I just don't want to be. Yeah, I would not want to die an unhealthy, long death, you know, but that doesn't really occupy much my space. Okay, so in order, it would be mum and dad, and then it would be and I don't when I say I don't worry, I just have. I do worry a bit, but I have just more of an awareness of them.
I saw them last night. It was Father's Day. I spent time with them, and it was it was actually really good. And then then I feel a bit bad because I don't get there enough, you know. But it's four hours of driving, you know, And I'm like, and then I hear myself coaching me, going, well, what fuck it? What's more important than them? And fuck the four hours because in a while there won't be anyone to drive to.
So and then I'm like, I, you know, reprimand myself, but it mainly that and other people like I don't. I don't care so much about stuff at all, you know, so relationships, not doing the wrong thing by people. I used to care a lot more that this is going to sound weird, but that I used to worry a lot more about what people thought of me. I don't
so much anymore. I just know that, well, one I'm flawed, and two I'm going to fuck up, and three, you know, people have every right to like me or not like me. I get that, so there's no argument with that. But I don't want to give people. I don't want to give people a reason to be disappointed in me or you know, think I'm a wanker, or I don't want to do that. Like I want to be, you know, I want to be the person that my mum thinks I am. You know that person. You know what's that saying?
You want to be as good as your dog thinks you are, or you know, because dog thinks you're the best thing in the world. I want to be as good as my labrador thinks I am. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's not a lot of other stuff.
Yeah, so you know, kind of like the big things in life, you know, your relationships, and.
If you want me to get tiny bit philosophical, I really fucking worry about the world. I worry about the next fifty years for him and I won't be here, but I worry about what that's going to look like.
Yeah, I just what do you do with that kind of worry? Because that is quite a global one. I think a lot of people can relate to that. Yeah, without any political you know, and all of that.
I try not to waste energy on things I can't control. So even though I say I worry about it, I don't obsess or ruminate or focus on it. But there's an underlying just care for the world. It's like, you know, like friends have got little friends of mine. I got little kids and they're four, and I go, fuck, what's life going to be like when they're fifty four? You know,
what's the world going to look like? So that a little bit, but you know, I try, and I encourage other people to like identify the things that you can control and can't control, and then invest your energy where you're going to get the best return, which of course is easier said than done, because we're emotional, fear based creatures at times. Yeah, and so it's very you know, intellectually and logically, oh, don't well, don't focus on that
because that doesn't change anything. That's good. That's good theoretically, and it's not terrible advice. But it's like you said, I think you said before you know it's or maybe we said another time, but it's like telling a worried person not to worry. It's like, well, or is that utif it doesn't matter?
That makes sense?
Yeah, I'm like, well, yeah, it's gone up to the person who's freaking out, they're worried, they're a bit anxious, having a minor meltdown. You go put your hand on their shoulder. Lovely intention but completely fucking unhelpful when you tell the worried person not to worry, because clearly they can't just turn it off.
So and even trying to turn it off as like counterproductive as well. Yeah.
Yeah, so yeah, that I try to the things that I can do or influence or effect. I try very much not to talk about political stuff on this show, just because I think we're inundated with it. And also, what the fuck do I know, so I'd rather talk about human beings and human feelings and human bodies and human relationships and the human experience at that level. Yeah, and I think rather than me chiming in on politics, nobody fucking needs it.
Well, I agree that there's a lot of it, and I try. I've been trying to avoid it a lot as well, just for my own sanity. But also like, yeah, I can relate to that worry of parents and you know, parents getting older, and I'm all the way across the world from mine, so I really don't get to see them, yes,
very often. And then also you know, like because we have children, Like when you have children, the experience of having a child is for I guess most people that again it's my experience probably a lot of other people, is that this kind of layer of anxiety washes over you. Yes, you just can't. It's just part of like being a parent, because I think evolutionarily it makes sense because anxiety is there to protect you, and now it's there to protect
you know, your child. Because but yeah, that like I wasn't an anxious person. I didn't worry much at all, Like before kids, like I was very happy, kind of go lucky, I think, But yeah, the experience of having children really change that and gave me a new perspective on what worry and anxiety is. And you know, sometimes you can't help things. Like I was telling you before the show that, like, I've had an interesting day and
a half. And yes, so my daughter broke her ankle playing basketball yesterday.
That's that's a bad injury and it hurts a lot. Yeah.
Well we didn't think she broke it initially because she didn't cry, you know, like you know when you're like I've seen her in pain before. Yeah, yeah, and she just was holding her foot and it didn't look good. But we're like, oh, maybe it's like dislocated or whatever. And now it's not dislocated, and yeah, she's gonna have surgery tomorrow as well.
Oh really yeah oh wow.
So yeah, it's been interesting and so like stuff like that will come up. You know, you can't you can't control everything, and so it makes sense for worried and to come up in those situations.
But I think I think sometimes worry is I mean, it's logical, Yeah, if that happened, Like I think, if I had kids, I would worry much more than I currently worry like I I probably have issues with getting too close to people. I reckon if I had kids, i'd be the best dad in the world and the worst dad in the world because I think I might be over protective. I'd hope I wouldn't be. I'd hope i'd let them. I'm pretty sure i'd let them just fuck up and fall over and get back up.
But it's a real difficult it really is.
It's a juggling act. And I think, like, yeah, I e a like I a friend of mine had a kid and somebody hurt his kid and like quite badly, like broke his jaw and like just a bully. And I'm like I was, I was, Oh god, I cannot tell you how mad I was, as not even my kid, but I care about the kid, and then I care about his dad. Yeah, oh god, this is why I don't have children.
Probably, Oh no, you'd be amazed. You would be amazing. I think your first instinct of like you'd be a great dad. I think that you absolutely would be. And I think that that feeling of like wanting to kill someone if they touch your child is completely.
Natural to all of the government authorities. I have no intention of ever killing anyone. I'm just talking about. But then at the same time, probably good.
I I have children, Oh no, I have that instinct. Like my my son place footy, like there's any like, yeah, I'm like, I'm ready to run on that field. I mean I won't, but I like, I have the instinct of wanting to. Yeah, Like he says somebody did something to him at school, like whether he was a child or like now and he's sixteen, I'm like, tell me who it is, you know, like, and he knows not to tell me because he's like, I might do something
that's good. It's functional to a degree. It's just depending on what you actually end up doing. Yeah, my mom my.
Mom ran on a footy field when I got ned in the face and I put my teeth through my tongue. Oh no, Mary, I'm like, oh my god. Mary ran on the field and was just like waving her fist and yelling at this like mom, get off the fucking field.
That would have been.
I'm and because I stood up night blood coming out of my mouth and ran down my neck right so that moms don't want to see that. And it wasn't The dude's fault. It was like it was just happened in play, So it was just an accident. But yeah, she was. She was like that that was going to that's it, you're not playing anymore. I'm like, what you're telling me, I'm not playing. I'm playing. She's like, I'm not playing anymore. That's your last game of football. I'm like,
come on, bro, you're five foot tall. You're not going to stop me. So my lunch weighs more than you. Settle down, go sit next to Ron. But yeah, she wasn't happy.
Yeah, well I can feel for for Mary, and I would have felt exactly the same in that situation and would have definitely run on field probably with I yelled at whoever hurt my child. But yeah, you know, accidents happen, and that's what happened yesterday. It was just an accident.
And yeah, well I hope she recovers quick and with not too much pain.
Now it'll be all right. So now we talked about worry, and I know we're coming to the end. Right. How much longer do we have?
Six? Seven, eight minutes?
Oh great, that's actually better than I thought. Tell me what really pisses you off?
Bullies? Uh? People who are thoughtless and selfish, people who don't genuinely just you know, people who don't pay attention to other people. I'm not talking about looking after other people, but just you know, just people who are very self centered and don't care about I was quick story. One minute. I was at the gym on Friday night. At my gym, it's twenty four where I trained. It's twenty four to seven Friday night. It's unstaffed. One of the staff there Annie,
who's amazing. She was their training clients, but she doesn't work at reception or anything. And these five guys came in and they're all young men, like they were probably sixteen to nineteen, and they all came in and one guy had a pass and the rest didn't, and they just came in like a swarm. Well one guy was a member, four weren't. And they were about to walk up the stairs and Annie walked down the stairs and bumped into them and said, oh, can I help you boys?
And they're like no, we're good, and they're like, well, sorry, what do you Anyway, they were just trying to bluff her and bully her so they could go work out. And Annie looked at me, and I was about twenty feet away, and so I just came over and I stood in front of her, and there was Remember there's five of them, right, and they're all like pig you know, kids are big. Now. I go, what's going on, boys? And they go, oh, we're just going to do a workout. We're going to see if we like it. You can't
do that. There's no staff here. And I go, who's got a membership? And this guy puts up. He goes, oh, I've got a membership. I'll go, well, you can train. The other four of you you can't train. And then like ah, but ah, but I go, not listening to me, you can't train. I didn't elevate my voice. I just said you can't train. Oh yeah, but we want to do a trial. I go, cool, you can do a trial, but not when there's no staff here. None of you have got memberships except you. And it doesn't matter how
many ways you ask. You can ask me for the next half hours.
This is no.
And they went back and they just turned around and walked down. I went, see ya, But that where people are just fucking rude and blind people and trying to intimidate, you know, a lady, like a sixty year old lady. I'm like, fuck you, you're definitely not training. That's all that stuff.
Yeah, so you usually express anger and frustration and.
No, I don't. I don't really get elevated. No, Like, if somebody is rude to me, I will go, Like in a shop, when they're I mean that have to be pretty rude, especially when it's in customer service and it's clearly they don't want to clear, they don't want to serve you, or I just go, it's not okay for you to be rude to me. That's it. And they look at me like what. I go, it's not okay for you to be rude to me. Maybe other people will put up with it. I won't, So either
be polite. Don't need to be my best friend, just be polite, or go find me someone who's polite.
Just I hat ah, that's pretty amazing. Would you do that, Tiffany? Is that something you've ever done?
It's not something I've ever done, but I love it.
I love it too.
I'm like, you know, people will treat you how you let them. Yeah, when people just are rude, I go, I go, hey, mate, it's not okay to be rude to me. I don't know if anyone's ever told you it's almost they get shocked. I go, maybe other people are cool. I'm not cool, so start again, don't be rude. And they never ac up, never because I don't ac up. Like I shouldn't say this because next time someone will fucking aark up. But you know, or they might get
a bit grumpy, or they might walk off. I've had people just walk off and someone else, someone different, come back. I'm like cool and they were polite. I'm like, great, it's all I want. Like I'm not special. But if I'm going somewhere, which is essentially a customer service business, yeah, and someone treats me like I'm a problem.
In their day, yeah, fuck you, Like fuck you don't do this job if you don't want to serve people, because it's the definition of the industry.
It's called customer service.
Yeah, totally. I love that, Like it's I think it's like the fuck he was on the inside though, Yeah, And the way you express it.
Is like, oh, yeah, I don't elevate. I don't swear, I don't elevate. I don't I'm not rude. I don't finger point. Yeah, I just talk like I'm talking now. And because I say that and it doesn't sound aggressive because it's not, it's almost confusing for them. Yeah.
So yeah, because what often will happen And this has happened with me and I'm sure a lot of other people. But like, if someone's rude to you, you just rude back because you don't put out, you're not going to put up with it. Yeah so, but but you're but you're doing something also ineffective because that's not going to change their behavior.
Can I also sorry, can I put in a disclaimer? I would be I'm not like I can read things pretty well. If if somebody I would just my uh, my asterisk would be if you feel like you could be in danger, don't do that of course, Like if you're a if you're a lady and you're smaller and not as strong and somebody could hurt you, then just maybe you know, I think it's about context and situation. But in general terms, I believe that especially in customer
service stuff. You know, it's like when people try and sell me something like on Hampton Street. I've been accusted or accosted a hundred times where I'm walking down Hampton Street and people want to sell you something or can I just ask you ten questions? I go no, and I just keep walking. They go, oh, can I ask why? I go no, and I just keep walking Like the question was can I and the answer is no? And then oh, well then can I ask why? Also?
No? See?
Yeah, like I don't need and look, it depends I'm not prick, but I will do it sometimes and I will, you know, it depends on. But if I'm hurrying somewhere and I know that it's really someone trying to sell me a fucking timeshare on Lindhaman Island, it's really just a curtain to pull back to show me the opportunity. I'm like, no, and you don't. Here's the thing you don't have to explain to people your personal decisions, especially
it's anger trying to sell you something. Yeah, I can ask you why not no, just go.
Yeah. I think there's lots of ways of being effective in those situations, but sometimes you're not the one in control. Someone's like continuing to bother you.
You can, especially with that multi level marketing ship multi level marketing when they are literally taught to not pay attention when people say no, right, you know they are trained to overcome objections, right, so they are trained. It's like they are told, Okay, you ask a question, person says I'm not interested. You ignore that. How fucking unethical is that? Yeah, and all you organizations that do that, you should be fucking ashamed of yourself to do that.
When someone you asked them a question and the person politely says no, thank you or I'm not interested, then you with your clipboard fuck off.
I really got the anger out of you today, didn't I cray? I love it.
But do either of you disagree with me?
No? I don't disagree. I have had a recent thing happened to me when my daughter and I were in London recently and someone came up to it like literally the same situation, yeah, very nice. I was like, I was in a good mood. I wasn't being rude. I was like super polite, happy to like entertain a little conversation as we're walking down the street. But when he just got no several times politely, then it was like, oh, well you must not like children, and you know, like he actually became.
Very aggressive rude.
Yeah, and I just like I was with my daughter too, and I'm like, I'm like, let's just walk across the street because this guy is like not leaving us alones. We just walked across the street and then we were at a pace and then my daughter looked behind us and she's like, oh, he's cross the street as well, and I'm like, don't worry, We're just going to keep walking and he's going to like and he stopped following us. But I'm like, that's so like I'm necessary.
Yeah, that's right, that's right. And there will be times when, you know, like if I see somebody. Conversely, if I see somebody on the street who's upset, I will go up and say are you okay? Like I love people, but I hate bullying and I hate that. You know, when you politely say no thanks, I'm not interested, and then maybe you repeat it again a version of no thank you, I'm not interested. Now this is me saying no twice politely.
Yeah.
Now if you keep going, you're not going to like it. You know, it's just got to be otherwise, there's no when people can treat people badly and there are no consequences.
Yeah, there have to be a boundaries set.
When when you can commit crimes in Melbourne with machetes and have hundreds of charges and you know you're a certain age and you will not go to jail, Well, of course you're going to keep doing it if you're that kind of person, because there's no significant reason not to. This is people do what they think they can get away with. I just got political.
Fuck you did, Craig.
I just I find that stuff so insane.
Yeah, so insane.
It's so insane. I'm like, and yeah, anyway, I'll be quiet, Doctor Lillian. It's been great. Thank you for quizzing me and opening that door. Clearly I have anger issues back in therapy for me, I'll have to book I'll have to book in with you.
I think your anger is super functional. Well, thank you, it doesn't seem to be a problem.
Tell people how to connect with you.
Well, why don't you visit me at doctor Lilies dot com where you can find lots of free resources and if you're interested in reducing your worries, then Contain your Brain is a free app that you can download.
And if you want some high performance coaching with Tiff, She's very expensive, but word has it on the street pretty fucking good. Where can people reach you? Cook gifcook dot com. There you go, boom two ladies to choose from both amazing and the fat fuck in the middle.
Just you know, how do we reach him?
No, not at all, at all.
We want to. You know, we're hoping that you'll be in concert and we can come to your show.
Yeah. Sure, I'll just restring my guitar and get Macallis's back on my fingers and uh maybe me, me, me, just tune that voice back in. All right, ladies, we'll say goodbye here, but thanks for that was fun.
Bye bye.