#1980 The Show That God Hijacked - Harps & Tiff

she'll talk. Now, she'd be all love and light and unicorns and fucking Disneyland, right to just woo you in. But once that fucking microphone goes off, she's fucking Genghis calm, fucking annihilates me. Hello Genghis, he I just spewed in my mouth. Fuck. Um, you know you bossy? Right? You do know that?

been gaye force winds, it's been all of it. Wherever you are in the world, we have Last time I look, we had listeners in nearly ninety countries, some of those. When I do look at the stats, it's like four people in Zambia, so to you guys shout out. So not a lot of people from there listening, but the four of you fucking thinks if you could spread the word a bit. I mean, you know, look, I know

you've got other stuff on. You probably got kids, you've probably got a job, but maybe as your third priority, spreading the typ gospel and if you could, because we're not really crushing it in Zambia, but so if you could help out, that would be much appreciated. Over and out, Love Harps.

then our father. I'm like, Mum, that will be good. You're pretty much God's right hand woman. So I will tell them. And do you know when I tell people that my mama's praying for them, and I'm not even joking, right, it's not there's not a gag coming. Yeah, they some people get a bit teary. I'm like, no, she really is actually praying for you, and they're like, oh my god, that is so and I go and she's got enough of her own, So I don't know why the fuck

she's praying for you, but anyway she is. She's such a good human, my mom. So I'll put them on my list. What's their name? She's got a list, got a list, God bless her. I'm like, mamam on that list. She's so cool. She didn't say fuck, She's like, you're the constant you're never offered, but not in an encouraging way. You know you need all the help you can fucking get way, you know, So you know, if you ever do you ever need some Mary prayers, anyone, hit me

up typ podcast face facey page. I'll get married to whack you on the can't hurt, can't hurt, That's what I think. Can't hurt? You know what else I think? And I know this is not what we're talking about, But like my mum's faith, now, I don't know, is there a god. I grew up believing there's a god. We don't know. That's why we call it faith, not knowledge or evidence or data, you know, but my mom my mom's pretty sure, right. But what I love is that my mom's faith and her belief and her prayer

and her going to church. Now, whether or not it's one hundred percent legit, and it's all everything that she was taught and told and trying to believe is true. Or perhaps some of it or none of it, it doesn't even matter to me because it makes her better. It makes her calm or calmer, she can worry, and it's like it's very very much a positive in her life. So whether or not I agree or don't agree, or we align on things or don't align on things, to

me matters zero. I just look back and I go, all right, So my mom does this thing, she has this way of being and living and believing, and she has all these little rituals and rules and habits. What's the net result. Well, the net result, Harps is she's way better than if she didn't have that, because it gives her a sense of calm and peace and takes away anxiety. Like I don't think because she nearly died a few times with cancer and a heart attack. Three

times cancer, one time heart attack. She doesn't. You know what she said to me the other day, She said, we'll talk about her license. She just got her license renewed for two years, right, and she goes, well, that'll do me. I'll be done by then, like I'll be dead, she's like, but she doesn't go. Oh, She's like, well, I won't be here in two years, which she probably will. But you know, she's like, two years is good, Like that will see me out. She goes, And it's funny

because she has no apparent fear of dying. Dad, on the other hand, he's probably I don't think he's terrified, but I think he's more regular, you know, more normal. He doesn't like talking about it at all. But Mum's constantly saying to me something like not bringing it up for the sake, but just in conversation. She'll go, So when I go to God, make sure you do this, make sure you remember that, right, because I'm the only one.

There's no kids, there's no grandkids, there's no siblings, there's just Fatty Harps tells me so much shit to remember. I'm like, can you write a list before you go to God, because there's a lot of shit that I need to do. She goes, I have a list, yes, So.

casual weekend Christian. The I wear a tracksuit. Therefore, I'm an athlete kind of Christian. You know, look at me. I own attracts it I'm an athlete. No, you just don't attract it. You know, there's people who call themselves things, and then there's people who do all the work that's required to actually be that. And I was like, I was, you know, fully immersed in my belief, in my faith. And it's not like I went, I don't believe in God.

And if you ask me, now, do I believe in God or do I believe in let's just go with do I believe in God? My answer is yes. Can I prove that there's a God? No? Am I trying to convince anyone that there's a God? No Am I trying to manipulate coerce preach evangelized to any particular person.

be right about some things and wrong about lots of things. Yes, I believe that could everything I've ever thought and been taught about, you know, all things God, could all of it be wrong? Yes? Am I comfortable with that kind of you know, it's like I it's very difficult to talk about. Well, it's not difficult, but it's very hard to be, you know, have a very very strong belief about something you literally cannot prove, and also say, by the way, I'm super open minded and objective. Well, you

can't be both. You can't have a hard line belief about something for which you have no evidence, right, And people go, ah, you know the trees, that's evidence of God. Well, other people would go that's evidence of nature or evolution or you know. And and to me, though I believe, I don't know what that means. I don't believe in

church as much as I believe in God. It's not say church is bad, but I think, like all groups, or all organizations or all businesses, anything, where there's a group of people, there can be amazing, beautiful, genuine people who really operate in love, and there can be manipulative cunts. And that's what I think.

Could I be partly right? Yes? You know, so we don't know, and we tend to believe and defend and fight for what we think is right, not necessarily what we know is right right, So there's that. And also, I think you know, one of the things that you talk about on your show, I talk about on this We've talked about multiple times is how attractive it is to be or how perhaps are what's the word valuable, noble, humble?

It is to be truly okay with being wrong, like truly And if I'm being honest, well, I've probably been wrong about as many things as I've been right, maybe more so. Why now would I think it's sixty one having been making mistakes for my whole life and getting things wrong for my whole life. That I'm absolutely right about everything. Well, that's ego, that's arrogance, that's shit attitude, that's that's being defensive. That's not a person who really

wants to learn and grow and evolve. That's someone who wants to be right. That's someone who's addicted to, you know, winning in a bad way. So for me, it's like I have reasons that I've gone into. You know, there have been many things in my life that have happened that that indicate to me that there is way more to life and experience and what can be experienced and what can be accessed, and what wisdom could be, and what truth could be, and what knowledge could be beyond

the human brain. I think one of them, this is someone doing a neuropsych degree PhD. I should say, you know, one of the problems is that we think we're smarter than we are. We are all knowing as a species. I object to that wildly. I think compared to other mammals and animals, we are in some ways smarter and more evolved. But that depends on the metric that you're using. Put me and a line in the jungle. Who the fuck's winning? Not Fatty Harps? You know? Put like, it

depends on what's the problem we're trying to solve. You know, how can how well can you adapt and survive in this situation or that context? Like we've built for ourselves the most comfortable existence because of our capacity to reason and think and solve problems, which is, in that way we are the smarter species, but you think about other things.

In other ways, we are definitely not. And so then when you zoom out a bit from the brain and the mind and what we call logic and reason and common sense, then you realize that perhaps there is a whole universe of intelligence and wisdom and truth and knowing to be accessed that doesn't fit within the parameters of what we call logic or reason or probability or possibility. I just think that we tell ourselves what we want

to believe because the other shit scares us. And there are many, many, many things that continue to be brought to light that are absolute and true that not long ago we considered absolutely impossible. And so as we know now that things that we're doing in twenty twenty five

were not possible ten years ago and completely. You know, some thing's twenty thirty forty years ago, one hundred and two hundred years ago would have been considered witchcraft or something like that, because in that time, with the knowledge that those people had, whatever of the thing was like I've spoken before, like people flying across the sky in a metal tube. And so you've got a plane which weighs hundreds of tons and people that weigh however many

ton and then you put that in the sky. Well, even a fucking feather can't stay in the sky. It falls to the ground. You know, logically, back then that makes no sense because they didn't have the understanding of physics and thrust and power and aerodynamics that we now have. So it depends on the time in human evolution and the context and also what we have been taught and told and trained. So, yeah, that was very deep, and I did we didn't expect to go there, But keep going.

I feel like you've got another ready, let's shelve the other conversation. We'll do it later.

you think perhaps they're flawed. And two unless you are absolutely willing to be wrong and prepared to go I was just wrong, no bullshit, no where you go, no excuses, no rationale, just I was wrong. And then three, to be able to consider things that perhaps were at odds with your previous belief A very common one that I've used on this show is my habit for thirty years of teaching the food pyramid because I thought that was I thought that was gold standard science. I was taught

that was gold standard science. And then probably ten years ago, maybe a little bit more, I heard the story of ansel keys and how that model of eating came into being, and I did some research and more research and asked some questions and did deeper and deeper dive, and it turns out that that particular idea or that proposal of this is the best way to eat is wildly flawed. Now I believe that, and so I was wrong. I'm

not mad at anyone. I don't blame anyone. I just go I thought A. Turns out that A was wrong, it's actually B. And so the moment that I know something different, or I'm aware that there is information or data or evidence which doesn't fit my belief and I'm not at least even willing to consider that, well, that's coming out a place of fear, fear of being embarrassed, fear of looking stupid people think, fear of people thinking less of me, fear of having to own up to something.

And none of that is in an interest to get to the truth. That's all in an interest to protect my ego and my bullshit and my reputation. And I mean, I've said things on this podcast. Nothing springs to mind, but there's probably one hundred things I've said on this very show over the last eight years that were bullshit or partly bullshit, not intentionally, of course, But now if I revisited that, I might think that that what I said back then was foolish or not fully enlightened or founded,

you know. So the answer is we can change our beliefs, but we need to first recognize what are the beliefs that I currently have that hold me back, How do they hinder me? And where did they come from? Did I choose this belief or is this belief a byproduct of who I've hung around and what I've paid attention to. Because you know, we say you become the average of the five. You know, that's kind of bro science, but

there's definitely something in it. You know. The chances of me becoming a Catholic, going to a Catholic school and never anything else, and having Catholic friends, and being in the Catholic Catholic system, and going to Mass every Sunday and having Athlelic parents and you know, nuns and priests coming to our house for dinner on a regular well, the chances of me being a Buddhist was zero. The chances of me being an atheist was zero. The chances

of me being an Anglican was zero. But then one day you get to the point where you might question something because you go, yeah, I know this is what I meant to believe in to believe in inverted commas, but there's something in me that's going, yeah, that could be bullshit. And the other part to this, which makes it even harder to change beliefs, is we have a weird sense of loyalty to our fellow believers, like we live in an echo chamber of belief, so we get

trapped in confirmation bias. We only look for evidence or data or stories or information that support our belief So is it possible to change our beliefs? Absolutely? Is it easy? No, It's quite difficult, depending on you know. Also, some of those beliefs are life shaping and life defining, an identity defining. They're the hardest.

that is beyond your control. Because when something doesn't matter, how brave and tough and fear less in inverted commas, you are when something's rocketing at your face before you have a chance to choose your response, you react, and if you're standing upright in your posture, your reaction will be to pull back and lift up to get out because your brain goes, fuck, We've got to get out

of here. If you hold your chin down and hold a stance where you are in a forward motion, like crouching like a tiger, and that same thing comes at your face, your reaction. Because I've done this. I've done both of these, and I've changed them in a moment in the same session and had different reactions. You will. You will slip the punch, and you will likely aggress your throwback. So it's got nothing to do about the story of whether or not I, oh, I'm so brave

when someone punches me old punch and back. That doesn't come into it. So, oh, I believe this, Like, So it's what part of those beliefs? So did you? So my question is do you feel like you chose God or you erased the parts of the religious community that you didn't connect with and you kept what was left behind.

the church. I remember my you know, compared to some people, my theological knowledge is too out of ten. Compared to the average person, it's probably pretty good. So, you know, when when I see people doing things which are totally out of alignment with what they would typically say to others or preach or be seen to be doing in a church situation, and I see basically like fraudulent behavior,

I'm like, that's just you pretending that you're something. And then I see them basically when they think no one's looking, being a different version. Right. There's that that now, and that sounds judgmental. Well, I don't mean that to be, but that's just that was my observation. And I saw that many times. I also saw people who when no one thought when they thought no one was watching, they were an angel, like they were doing just incredible stuff

for others. Right. So, but this is any group of people. It could be a synagogue, it could be you know, a church. It could be a school group, it could be you know, Kole's where you've got a bunch of people who work together. You know you're going to get You're going to get really cross section of how people are and how they behave, and how they think and how they choose, and also how they are when people are watching, and how they are when they think people

are not watching. So I just found a lot of incongruence, which is, you know, misalignment between what I was taught and told and trained and what I considered to be the wisdom of the Bible. I saw a lot of you know, divergence, a lot of separation, and I kind of fell out of love with church. And I don't think I'm more enlightened than them. They're still you know, I don't think that at all. I think I still

think I'm a fuck up. You know, sometimes sometimes I think I'm a pretty decent human And the truth is, I don't know. Like that's why if I knew I wouldn't have to have faith, right, I don't know. I don't know what there is. And I try very hard. I try very hard to be self aware and realize that or think about do I just believe this because this is familiar? Do I just believe this because this is comfortable? And I am pretty good at not doing

that or being that. In fact, a lot of the things that I believe make my life harder in that I'm inherently selfish. And you know, while I want to help people and love people, and I truly do, I can be a selfish fuck, you know. And I know that if I didn't have the beliefs that I have, that I would not that I would be. I don't think I'm a great person now, but I would not be the person I am now. I truly believe, and

I've said this a hundred times. I truly believe that if you can and really try to come from a place of love, whatever that is with that's kindness or quality time or generosity or empathy or support, you know that if you can truly try to come from that perspective, and it's not to be selfless, because that doesn't work, but it's to be less selfish, you know, to have a purpose bigger than you, and a purpose that you know, while I make good money, money is not my reason

for living. And so to try to, you know, live those values which may or may not be biblical. But to me, that's the thing. And I look, I might find out one day, or Mary might find out if she goes quicker and she can email me from heaven dot com hashtag no bullshit up here, she might give me a quick insight. But you know, I think, I think it's just a really interesting thing to think and

think about. And I guess God, Heaven, Hell, eternity, life, death, you know, different realms, you know, spiritual spirituality, spiritual insight, spiritual wisdom. You know, there are all of these things that we kind of have words for, but I don't know that we fully understand them. And I and I

can't explain this. And this could be a byproduct of my mind, or it could be something else, but I know that the intention that I go into experiences with and I'm not talking about buying my bananas, but if I'm going to do a talk like I did one you know the other day in Meal Dury that we spoke about or or it could be something perhaps more a little deeper, where I'm working with a whole group for a day and it's really people who are ready

to change their life. I know. So that if I if I get out of my own bullshit and ego and get I get out of my planning, and I get out of my research, and I get out of my to do list, and I just you know, I'll pray a little prayer and it might be something you know, like all of you, and none of me, like all of you, none of me, you know, let me be a conduit to the wisdom and the love and the knowledge, so that I don't get in the way of what might happen for these people today, you know. And that

people will go, oh my god, he's gone. No, I haven't gone. I've always been like that. I've always been like that. It's just I think sometimes we've got to be like I try to be mindful of how wide I open the door, because some people will go, oh, this is fucking psychobabble, bullshit, spiritual bullshit. I'm out. And of course to those people, you know, of course, go find who you connect with or what you connect with,

and either way they could be right. I don't know, but I think you you know, if you stand for nothing, you'll fall for anything, So you've got to go Look. I could be wrong, but this is what I think, This is what I believe, This is what works for me, which is why I don't try to evangelize anyone, coerce anyone. I'm not telling anyone they should believe in anything. I'm telling you how it works for me, and I just

think that it is. It is brave to be able to go through life knowing that, or being comfortable with the idea that you're going to be wrong a lot, and you're going to be wrong about things that you really do not want to be wrong about. But going I was wrong, not Here's twenty reasons why just I was wrong. So One, if I misled you, I apologize too.

I didn't mean to. Three. I'm going to lean into this and see what I can learn, and see what also, see what I can learn beyond beyond the Internet, beyond the research, beyond the books, beyond the psychology. I want to see what I can learn just by being open, by being aware, by paying attention. I think we can learn just by allowing whatever it is our brain, our mind, our soul to be a conduit to the wisdom that exists outside of what we think is knowledge. This is deep, isn't it?

mad at God. Sometimes I'm like God, this is I don't want to do this, Like I don't want to do this. God's like, yeah, I don't care, you know, don't care? Like what makes you come t like what you're comfortable with, is not what I'm like. Let's say that the Bible's real, and let's say that there was a bloke called Jesus, and let's say that he did get nailed to across on a hill called Calvary and

died an agonizing, slow, painful death. If all of that's true, well that's a that's I'm never going to deal with anything like that, you know, like that's the ultimate. Now, obviously that's the that's the Christian message, is that Jesus died for hour, you know, John three point sixteen, for God so love the world that he gave He's only begotten son, that whosoever believes in him would not perish but have eternal life. That's the salvation scripture, right, And

and then I think about it. Can't just if you go, well, i'm a Christian, or if you go I'm a Muslim, or if you go I'm a Buddhist, or if you go I'm a Jew, or if you go I'm a whatever it is, whatever your theology is. You can't just pick and choose. You can't go, yeah I believe that bit.

I don't believe that bit, you know, or it's probably you know, it's hard to let me say this better if you're picking and choosing the inside, it's the wisdom the scriptures that work for you because you're you're okay to do that, and you're comfortable to do that. Like, I think the messages that are the most empowering and the most relevant for me are the ones I don't want to hear. They're the ones I don't want to hear, you know, Like remember that story I told you about

me training? Remember that which one? Remember I told you that? Okay, I've told this maybe two or three times, right, Yes, So I prayed to God one day because I was obsessed with my body and obsessed with training, and I just I just started reading the Bible like I was early twenties. I didn't know the front from the back, Genesis, first Book, Revelation, last Book, or New Testament. I didn't know where anything was. So I didn't I didn't know

one scripture. I couldn't have told you one scripture from the Bible. Obviously, growing up as a Catholic, we weren't encouraged to read the Bible right, no heat or hate, just that was my experience. So one day I just I Remember, there's sixty six books in the Bible, or in the kind of typical Bible. There are a few

different ones, but most Bibles have sixty six books. And within all of those books, which I guess you could in more layman's terms, we might call them chapters, but they're called books, and they have a bunch of different chapters within those books and verses in those chapters. And you know, I mean literally tens and tens and tens of thousands of words in the Bible. And so one day I felt that I felt that God was telling

me that I was obsessed with my body. I mean, this is me kraigerfying it, that how I looked and what my body was doing and how big my muscles were, and that was basically my God because I was filled with ego and as insecure and at that point in my life, I got validation and approval and acceptance and what I felt was love through what I looked like

and how well my body could perform. Right, So that's very addictive when you were a fat, socially invisible kid who got nothing but heat and hate because of his body. Now you fast forward six seven years and I'm getting all of this attention because my body is in good shape, so attention. Not that I was, you know, spectacular, but compared to what I look like when I was fourteen,

I was fucking Brad Pitt, right. And while I wanted to learn about not just God, I wanted to learn about a different way about thinking about life and about people and about existing and about like, what is life about working, making money and buying stuff and then getting old and dying? Is that what life's about? Because that's it's kind of what I thought most people thought life

was about. You know, you get married between twenty and thirty, you have, you know, two point three kids, you have a golden a trebra station wagon, white pick a fence. You do a job, you don't have a passion, You do a job. You do that forty years, and you retire from the thing that you didn't love, but it paid the bills. And then you get old and then you get fucked. You might buy a caravan, you might play your goal four times a year, but you're fucked

and then you die. And I'm like, that was what I thought, and I just was very interested in something else, and I always had it's going to sound weird, but I always had what I would call a god curiosity and a God awareness. And even now it's sixty one, I don't know. I don't know, but I'm telling you that, you know that I've had for me. And I don't even like saying it because people think you're weird and they're like, oh, he was so sensible until he did that, right,

I get it. But you know, if you believe me, then you'll believe me when I tell you that. You know. I sat in my car with that Bible and I said, God, if you want me to not train, you know you want me to like I felt, I was being told not to be basically a fathead obsessed with his own appearance, right and body, And so I shut my eyes. I didn't know where anything was, didn't know any of the books, any of the chapters, any of the scriptures, any of

the verses. I didn't know Old Testament from you. I opened the Bible with my eyes closed, and I put my finger in and my prayer was, God, if you want me to stop, you know, to change my life in this way, let me know. And my finger was on. My finger was at there was a tea and my finger was just before the tea, and the word was the no sorry sorry, it was P. It was P. And the word was physical. Right, So here's the P

and my fingers at the start. And the scripture is one Timothy four to eight, and it says physical training profiteth a little. This is in the King James version, which is old ye world, I'll say it in more modern terms, new international version maybe, which is physical training is of some value, but train yourself in the things of God like that was. That was And my finger with my eyes closed, found that out of thousands of thousands of words, and that was the thing that I read.

And then I went directly from there into church. This was my second week at a Bible kind of spirit fuelled Pentecostal church. There was an old guy. For those who've heard this, I apologize Pastor Milton, who was great. And I said to him, I asked him like I knew the answer because I'd found one scripture, but I wanted to hear from him what he would say. And I said he was a real theological giant. And I said, Pastor,

I work in a gym. He didn't know me yet, he'd met me briefly, but I said I work in a gym. I told him what I do. I didn't tell him why I had this question. I said, my question to you is, is there a scripture in the Bible, the whole Bible, front or back, you know, Old or New Testament, that talks about like working out, like physical training. And he goes, oh, let me think, let me think, and he kind of it chews over it from maybe six eight seconds, and he goes, yeah, there's there's one scripture.

He called everyone, dear one. He goes, yes, dear one, there's one, and it's one Timothy four eight and it's you know, physical training, prophetess a little but train yourself onto the things of God. And I'm like, I went white and I just went thank you, and then I just walked you know so. And some people will say, well, that could happen, that's a coincidence. And I'm going to say to you maybe maybe I don't know. Do I have proof that that was God? Of course I don't,

but I have had many things like that happen. Now I believe that just like here's my analogy. Do you believe that your body is always sending you signals? Tiff? Yeah, yeah, So I believe that our body is a biofeedback system and we are all getting messages from our body. I also believe that most people do not listen. It's not that the information is there. It's not that the wisdom or the insight or the understanding or the message is

not there. It's just that we're not open. Now, if you want to do something that's a bit scary, go and pray to whoever or whatever. Just say God or whoever or whatever you are, if you are real in the next week, just show me something, show me something and be honest. And then people go, oh, yeah, you're going to make something up with your mind. And you know, people will always find a reason. And I get it. I get it. I get it one hundred percent get it.

I'm pretty skeptical too, I trust pretty slowly. I ask a thousand questions. But you would be surprised a number of people who when you open yourself to the possibility that there's knowledge or wisdom or truth to be gleaned and access that doesn't come from the Internet or a book or Brian right, then some amazing shit can happen.

Jesus or whatever. And in that kind of semi half awake, vivid feeling, I've gone, I've looked at this silhouett this and I've gone show me or proved to me or something. And in my mind I know that it was like it was like it was God or Jesus or whatever. And a moment later, the cat ran its right, so I'm in bed. The cat runs and I hear it on the carpet. It runs up and it jumps and it's got its face next to mine, and I've gone into complete shock. And then I opened my eyes and

there's no cat there but the cat. My cat doesn't have access to my so my bedroom door shut and the cat's in a completely different room. Wow, and my heart's racing. And I was like that, but at that first, Like I couldn't move for a second when it was happening, and I was just like, what the fuck was that?

well aware of that. But yeah, I just look, I am fascinated with what there is to know, what there is to experience, what there is to access beyond what we think there is. And I think, you know, like I think I'm a relatively educated person, and i'm I am. I'm not completely objective, of course, I don't think anyone is completely objective, because everyone's individual experience is literally subjective. But I'm a lot more open and willing to be wrong. And which is why I say I don't say this

is how it is. I say this is how I think it is. This is what I've experienced and everything that when I tell you these things, these are actual, literal events. These are not you know, we're not talking about a vision I had or you know, these are just things that happened. And you know, I think the more that you like open the door to collaborate and

connect with and pay attention to your body. For example, the grady your self awareness and self understanding develops like you understanding you, you understanding what your body is saying to your mind and your brain so that you can go do something. And I think I think it's quite the And again this, you know, probably will come in for criticism, but I think it's arrogant to think that the only knowledge and truth and wisdom is with humans is like is just lives within the mind of us

Homo sapiens. We because what we do is we go you know, Well that doesn't make sense, so that can't be true. Well, how about that doesn't make sense meaning I don't understand it, meaning it doesn't fit within our scientific box. That we've created for us all to live in. But so did many things over the centuries, right, which now in the box, they're out of the box, you know, how about it doesn't make sense to me, But also

it could be true. I just think that's a better paradigm because we all say, oh, yeah, I want to be teachable, I want to be able to unlearn, I want to be open minded. Yeah, but just don't contradict what I already believe. Well, that is the opposite of humility and awareness and open mindedness. That is the opposite. But that is like my experience is that almost everyone who says I'm open minded is not open minded because

they're scared. They're scared because they don't you know, when you believe something like it's very even when I go, I don't know if there's a God, Now that's just the truth. Also, the truth is I believe in a God. But believing in something is not the same as knowing something. And this bothers people to this distinction. Well, literally, faith is believing something you can't prove, Otherwise it wouldn't be called faith. It to be called data, evidence, knowledge, science, whatever.

But even when we do think we know stuff, i e. The food pyramid is the best way to eat. We often find out the thing that we knew in inverted commas was actually a flawed assumption or flawed knowledge, you know. So this is the and you know, this is one of my favorite conversations with you of all time. You know. And I just think that, you know, these conversations where we're not trying to we're just thinking out loud. We're not trying to twist any arms, We're not trying to

shape any belief systems. We're just going, fuck, who knows, I don't know. And you know how many and I'm not saying we're great, We're not great, But you know how many people get on and they're trying to push a certain agenda or idea or way and we're going, fuck, we don't know, could be, this could be. But hey, this is what happened to me. Hey, this is what

I used to think. This is what I think now. Hey, I used to be a little bit of a zealous you know, I used to be a little bit of you know, living in the Jesus echo chamber, and I was just too scared to even open the door to you know, and it wasn't that I became anti God at all, clearly, It was just that there were there. The stuff that I struggled with was not the God

stuff as much as the human stuff surrounding. Because every human, even if they're a preacher, you know, or a rabbi or a priest, or a pastor or a nun or whatever, every human, every one of them, is still a human with all their own bullshit. You think that because someone's a pastor, that they never tell a lie, that they never have the ego, that they never manipulate people, that they never fucking embrace the power that they don't of

course they do. That's not because they're bad, because they're human. We have to stop putting people up on altars and worshiping humans, for God's sake, stop worshiping people you know nobody. There are people that are really good at stuff, and they have hot, big brands and you know, high profiles, and good on them, good on them, but they ain't any better than any of you listening to this. And I'm not saying that as a feel good kind of

fucking you know vibe. They're not. And the problem is we live in a culture where people think they are They're prettier, they're smarter, they earn more dough, they're better. They're not better. They're not better. And that's part of the problem, is that we compare ourselves to people, and you know, we it's a real challenge to be able to go, who am I beyond what I think and what I believe and you know, these things that I've

held on to through gritted teeth for so long. And when I do an inventory on my beliefs and ideas and my thinking and the consequences of all of that over the last ten twenty years, oh, maybe I need to revisit what I think and what I believe and why.

bad kid. I think I was a good kid. But in one way, I look at what I've done and some of the things I've achieved, and I'm proud without being arrogant, but I also think I could do more like I have this and even as I get older. The this is going to sound arrogant, but I'm going.

got up and he was saying something about me. In the day. He's one of the bosses. And he's a sweetheart, and he was up in front of the group and you know, he started crying. This is a boss at work in front of everyone, standing next to me and in front of everyone. I gave him a hug, right, And it's when we get past the bullshit and we go I'm a man, I'm in front of my team, and I'm like, yes, mate, you can cry, one hundred percent. You can cry. This is not you being weak or

bad or broken or inferior. This is you being fucking real and and it's so admirable. Right. So yeah, I just think that my purpose is to help people understand or find theirs, not guided by me, but you know, supported by me, whatever that is. And I don't think i've done that well enough. I think I've done it, Okay, I want to do more of it. And if there's a God, if God said to me, for the rest of your life, I will bring audiences to you. But you've got to live in next to poverty. I would

say I'm in next door to poverty. I'm in because I'm not interested in you know, I like a normal human, I'm interested in money, but I'm not driven by money at all. And I think you know that it's like I'm not I don't give a fuck about what people think of my financial situation or you know. And it's not that I don't care at all about money, of course I do. But for me, money is a resource.

But yeah, I would rather And I've said this before, if you say, Harps, you can talk to ten thousand people tonight at Votaphone Arena or fifty people across the road for ten grand I'm going Votaphone Arena every time, even if there's no coverage, even if there's no social media, even if no one knows about it except the ten thousand people, even if I get zero accolades that I'm

in there, you know. So I think because I had moderate success when I was in my early thirties, and I had more stuff than I ever thought i'd have, you know, multiple houses, cars, all that shit. In the middle of all of the stuff that I had, it's like I had this. It's like almost God went, okay, so you got all the stuff, Now what do you know? And I go, it's not about the stuff. It's not

about the stuff. Stuff's good. But yeah, so for me, that that and also being you know, like I think also to you know, you don't want to beat yourself up constantly, you know, and go I'm shit. And I have a tendency to do that, but I need to

rain that in a little bit. But yeah, I think being of service, being of value and building that love bank balance, and that spiritual bank balance, and that kindness bank balance, and even if it doesn't come back, even if it doesn't come back, you know, you just like the New Testament. There's a scripture which a shamedly I

can't quote, right. I know the scripture, I can't remember where it's from, but it says when you give, like in other words, when you're giving to Jesus was in the temple and he was talking to the Pharisees and Sadducees and people that like some of the religious, because what the religious would do back in the day in the temples, would they were some of them would come in with like a big treasure chest of gold and go look at me, look at me, right, And it

wasn't really about making a sacrifice to God. It was really about getting social brownie points and all of that. And he said, when you give given secret he said, don't let your left hand, know what your right hand's doing. And he pointed out this old lady that was up the front of the synagogue and she had one gold coin and that was all of her wealth in the world, So that was one hundred percent of her wealth. And he knew that, and he said, basically, that's that lady.

Is that lady's truly giving, Like she's given the most of anyone today, you know, because she gave one hundred percent of what she had to give, you know. So I feel like I've gotten back up on the pulpit. I apologize everyone.

Of course, Muslims call God Allah, you know, Christians in the in the Hebrew God is Yahweh or Hashem, and you know, so that is a question I can't answer. But what I think is on some level, most of us are talking about the same dude, right, And you know, as for Christians, Christians religions that believe in multiple gods, I don't believe that. But again that's just what I

believe and don't believe. I don't believe that. But that's like, like I've said, who knows, one day I might find out, Hey, that right, you were wrong, and I'll go my hands in the air emoji fuck who knew? You know? You know, It's like I don't know, I don't know, but you know, so in terms of all of that, I like, what do I hope out of this conversation? I don't know.

I just I hope that even if people just question, that maybe there is more than we think, and maybe what we understand is just what we understand, it's not what there is to be understood, you know, and that that having thoughts or beliefs or values or not values, thoughts, beliefs, ideas, ideologies, theologies that you have embraced that could be a bit wrong or a lot wrong. Is okay? Is okay? It

is uncomfortable, but it is okay. You know so. And there are things within Christian doctrine that you know, I question and I go, oh, that's that's hard for me. I don't know. I don't know. I actually don't. It's not like, well my opinion on that is. I go, I don't fucking know. I don't know, you know, And but it's it's I do know that when I open myself up to uh be directed or in or I don't know, spoken to for one of a better word,

I know that generally it happens. And sometimes, honestly, sometimes I just pull the curtain down and put the you know, closed sign on the door, and I shut myself down from God. You know, I'm like, don't want to hear, don't want to hear, don't want to hear because I know what I'm going to be told and I don't want to deal with it. Yeah, so I'm selfish. Yeah, for sure.

funerals they often have this scription. It's is Sire six eight, which is from the Old Testament, and it says, M and the Lord said who will I send? Who will go? And I said, I am here, I will go. You know, I'm like, oh, And when I hear that, I'm like, because sometimes the things that God wants you to do, if there's a God, they are not the things you want to do. Like you don't want to put yourself in the middle of shits or chaos or pain or uncertainty.

But I just think that not indifferent to you know, just developing resilience. You know, that's sometimes opening that door doesn't make sense to you. Sometimes eventually it makes the most sense, the most sense. It goes from making no sense to all the sense. You know, Wow, I did not expect this conversation tonight, and I don't think we're going to put it up TIV.

to the new project facebook page. Or if you liked it, or you found it interesting or helpful or unhelpful, whatever you found it, that's okay. That's okay. Say goodbye a fair but TIF thanks Amen hearts, Oh sister, loving the Lord's wrung I don't want to be raped. Yeah,