#1963 Failing Successfully - Kelly Smith

It's recorded, it's going to be released. Tell the world or tell whatever you want, because you've been, I mean you've been quite public talking about your perimenopause and your your peaks and troughs of energy and strength and injuries and hormones and the fucking shit fest that you've been navigating with your body. Give us a kind of a thirty to sixty second update, because you know, we're all on the edge of our fucking medical clinical seats.

they pay three hundred and fifty dollars per thing. And you know, so the the little kind of vial, it has one point five mil in it, so one point five milli liters. So in other words, you know, think a teaspoon is five meal, so it's one point five mil. It's three hundred and fifty dollars. Three. Well, I think they're meant to use it more sparingly than they do. But a a week whoa, yeah.

SUPs I take. And so it costs me whatever ever procost. That's it. But anyway, we probably didn't need to open this door Kell because Kel's like this is in the fucking conversation we spoke about having.

failure and what did you learn from it? And then I thought, let's take that a little bit further and is anything actually a failure or just the harder way of learning something?

interpretation of something that happens in our world. And I think we need to use that word if we're on the self improvement, not delusional, but the self improvement, self help, personal development, positive psychology. I want to think better, do better,

be better. I don't want to be deluded. But you know, if we're always saying, oh, I did I tried that, but I failed, I did that, I was a failure, that if we're always calling things that don't work out the way we want a failure or a failed attempt, then we're calling ourselves by virtue of that, we're calling ourselves a failure. Now that's not to say we'll never fuck up, we'll never get stuff wrong, we'll never get

the outcome that you know we didn't want. We'll often get the outcome we didn't want, and we sometimes will get the outcome we do want. But I just think it's like, how do we navigate and move through that mentally and emotionally? And you know what I was Stop me, either of you if you want to interrupt, But I was thinking about at what age do we understand this

concept of failure? Because you think babies don't experience failure, babies don't fail at anything, because they don't they haven't yet been taught, oh you can fail, So they don't fail. They don't label anything of failure. They just have experiences. They haven't yet learned that what they do and how they do it can be evaluated as good or bad,

or worthy or unworthy, or a failure as success. And if we unpack that through a psychological lens, we're talking about like the developmental window before self conscious emotions and socially constructed evaluated frameworks or evaluative frameworks kick in. So like this is a social construct, Oh you can fail, you can win, you can be a success. And of course in the real world there is you know, a

course we can I guess technically fail at things. Of course, so you wanted to run, you wanted to win the race, and you came last, So you could we understand You might say that that was a failure. I understand it also, or you could just say I wanted this outcome, I didn't get it. This was the outcome. I go, what does that mean? What can I learn? What can I

do better? What did I learn from my competition? So I think that while not pretending that we're in you know, Disneyland and acknowledging the practical reality that in a real world, experiential sense, failure and success are constructs that we live around and live by. I think on a personal level while being able to recognize I didn't get the outcome

that I want. We can reframe things you know there are like for example, I could say, and I do say this sometimes say it more for effect than anything else. I could say the first six hundred episodes of the upre U project were a failure because I didn't have a big audience. For at least the first hundred or two hundred or three hundred, I lost money, I didn't have sponsors, there were times when it wasn't a great product,

and so on and so on. And it wasn't until I was in the six hundreds that I actually started to succeed. In inverted commas, if we call success something being commercially viable, or you could go, I did six episodes. It was so much fucking fun, six hundred episodes. I should say so much fun. I learned so much. I met cool people, I got to develop skill and awareness, and I learned lots of new things. I opened new doors.

I had all of these experiences that I would not have had if not for this vehicle called the U Project. How lucky am I? Now that's two interpretations of exactly the same thing. While intellectually understanding I could have done better, I also could have done worse. I could have done twenty episodes and gone fuck this, this will never work and give given up? You know what I mean? So I think that you know that like coming back to kids, like understanding that there will come a point in time.

Usually the point in time is around eighteen to twenty four months. It's that you both heard me talk about theory of mind. Theory of mind is where we start to have an awareness of other people's thinking, and kids start to vaguely understand this social construct that they could do things that are good or bad, like, oh, aren't you a beautiful? Look at your dancing? Your dancings are amazing. Right, Well,

that's a judgment. It's a nice judgment, But no one's going to look at the two year old dancing and go fucking hell, what are you doing with your feet? Get your shit together like you're not following the corry, Try harder, go to your room, and when you come back out, we expect you to be in time and on point. Right, But there's the.

a cat suresh. You know, we don't want to do that, but we want them to learn that the world's not always going to love or approve of, or endorse or embrace everything about them, you know. So it's a it's an interesting you know, I'm not a parent, of course, so I don't I'm speaking purely out of my buttom My theoretical, but tom but I would imagine that that is a really a challenging kind of emotional social psychological tightrope for parents to walk, like how much do I

you know? And at what age do I start to give them more informed feedback while still being loving and compassionate and kind. And at what point is another bit, at what point there's telling? And we'll get back to the failure conversation, But at what point does telling kids that they're amazing? When does that start to become a negative?

Because when they step out of home, you know, the amazing zone, and they other people treat them and talk to them wildly differently, and they don't they're not prepared for life beyond the amazing bubble. Yeah.

with a lot of what you could call failure. I mean literally, when I was in year seven, we had a cross country run that was compulsory every week. I was the fattest kid in school. My name was Jumbo. Every week, out of one hundred and thirty kids, I came one hundred and thirtieth week in, week out, one hundred and thirtieth, So one hundred and twenty nine kids in front of me every week, ninety two or three kilo Jumbo who's thirteen years old, who's morbidly obese, who

can't fucking run. He does the five k run in about an hour because he's not running, and I come last. And so that's and there's no self pity in that.

I don't need anything for that. That's just my you know, that was my experience, and it's like, then you can, I guess for some people that's going to be almost like an emotional anchor for the rest of their life, and I don't know what determines whether or not that is or that then becomes maybe a platform for you going, well, fuck, what if I actually what if I actually tried, like what if I change my thinking and my habits and what if I, you know, tried to move away from

this current reality? Like what could I do? And so for me, not being good at stuff eventually became almost like my motivational superpower And what really was a massive reframe from me was going from I'm shit at stuff to oh, I've actually got quite a lot of potential.

I just haven't used my potential. When I started to run, when I started to live weights, when I when I started to play football at a decent level, when I started to train, you know, I'd go out by myself because I wasn't naturally skilled, but I would kick a footy both sides of the body, I would handball both hands. I would go to footy training and train. Then I would do at least that much football training by myself. That my my friends didn't do right because I didn't

have their natural ability. And so I think that over time you can leverage off that failure or that disappointment or those outcomes that you don't want or enjoy done the right way, you know. And it's while I understand the embarrassment, and I even understand the self pity, and I get all of it. But at some stage, you know, if you want to move beyond that, you probably got to, you know, feel that pain anyway and make different decisions.

That's not one more than the other. I mean it's good when things are going good and you're making a few dollars and you know, you get a bit of like a decent brand and reputation and people with high profiles want to be on your show, and that's certainly fucking helped. So that's fun. But definitely for me, the first six hundred episodes weren't painful. And it's like you think of a you two could say the same, Tiff

could say the same. Like Tiff right now has gone from baby steps presenter no fucking idea to a bit of an idea, to being in front of audiences, to developing insight and skill to starting to refine and hone and she'll you know, and now she's i would say, quite a good speaker at a professional level. But in five years she's going to be better. In two years,

she's going to be better, you know. But it's not like where she is like where she is now is a huge development from where she was three years ago. And when I started, I was shit, and you go, well, I can't get good without being shit. And you know when people go, oh, you were never shit, that that's

actually not true. I did presentations that were terrible. I lost my way, I forgot what I was going to say, I got fucking in the middle of a sentence, lost you know, my train of thought, and told stories that didn't land, and you know, pissed people off because I used a term that I didn't mean to be, you know, insensitive,

but to them it wasn't insensitive. And then I realized halfway through, and then I got nervous because now that lady or that man over there are fucking grumpy at me, and they've given me daggers, and I'm like, oh fuck, this shit is hard, you know, and it just takes That's where you got to go. You know. It's the old how to become a black belt. You get punched in the face and kicked in the dick as a white belt a million times, and eventually you get a

new belt. Then after a decade you're a black belt. Then you can kick others in the dick and punch them in the face or whatever, you know. But it's just like, how do you get to that level of mastery or excellence or competence. You go through all the stages of being you know, terrible at something too good, And that's the climbing of the mountain, you know, And the black belt is the top of the mountain, or the metaphoric black.

I trained with him. I love him so much. I squish his face and fucking sit on him and he goes, you know, I can't feel you because he can't feel in his legs right, and he he just gets in so much pain sometimes. For those who don't know who John is, he had a terrible accident. He is meant to die. He selfishly didn't die. He lived on and he's got a brain traumatic brain injury, spinal cord injury. He's got a you know, he can't go to the toilet either end. So he's you know, all that's taken

care of and he's just his life is hard. But you can ask him any time how he is. He will not complain. Like and for me, that context, you know, that that perspective, that awareness being around that person, like I've never had one day in my life, which is which has been as hard as every day of his life. Every day he's in pain all day. He has no reprieve,

you know, And so it's really just the number. I say what's the number, and he goes seven or eight or nine, you know, sometimes he says ten, but he never says anything below two or three or four. And he's he's not a winger, you know. So yeah, I think so much of all of this stuff. What is hard, what is easy? What is failure? What is success? What is a problem? What is a lesson? This is all just stories that we tell ourselves.

in the world. But anyway, enough about the Crab. But Johnny, Johnny will send me a message and say what time are you at the gym today? Because he hasn't seen us for a day or two. You'll send it to me and the Crab and he'll go, I miss you both, and he'll put a heart right, I miss you both, and I'm like, I go, well, I love you, john I go. The Crab won't tell you that, because he's

a fucking emotional misfit. I go, But he does love you, so I'll say it on behalf of both of us, and he just writes, thanks, right, Yeah, I love that. I love that relationship with him. And this sounds cheesy and podcasting and nap, but one hundred percent I get more benefit from John than he gets from me. And

he's taught without even trying to teach me anything. He's taught me so much about being you know, for me, about being a man, and about being responsible, about being a solution focused, about not complaining, about being resilient, you know, and about having a purpose. You know. It's like, yeah, it's been great anyway, I feel like we've deviated, but nonetheless it's perspective though.

couldn't be prouder. But yeah, so I was going to tell you just quickly, like so I've told this once or twice on maybe three times tiv Weigo it's actually seven but anyway, most of our listeners wouldn't have heard it. But so one of my first ever gigs was a teaching the vic Fit course to Certificate three, so not even personal trainer, just fitness instructor students, and I had to This was the first time i'd done a fitness industry lecture. It was students, so they didn't know a lot.

I knew more than them, but I was still wasn't a great teacher, you know. I certainly wasn't an academic at that stage. I actually didn't have a degree, but I'd owned gyms and I'd train lots of people and work with clubs and teams, and it was pre my exercise science degree. But anyway, I was very experienced at writing programs and all that shit. Anyway, so I went in and I did this. I had to do this talk on basically designing programs, writing programs, bah blah blah

blah bah, you know. And it was two hours, and I planned for the talk for two weeks. I planned every day. I spent hours every day, maybe an hour or two every day. So I would say I did it at least twenty twenty five hours of preparation for this two hour lecture. And this is how long it ago.

It was. There was I didn't have a computer. I had those little office cards, you know, those little white cards that they'd have in a plastic box, and you'd fiddle through the fucking cards and you'd pull out, oh, missus Smith yeah, we've got your account here. I had those, right, So I wrote all of these notes, wrote them, re

wrote them, highlighted them, and then I went in to this. Firstly, I was doing it at a gym in Armidale called Recreation, and I stupidly wore jeans, boots and a light blue shirt. Now then have you heard this tip? Maybe not so anyway. Anyway, so I'm doing this presentation and I'm twenty six, twenty five. Maybe I'm definitely not a professional speaker. I think I got paid fifty dollars for the two hours or something.

Thought I was fucking Hollywood. And anyway, I was sitting in my Honda Integra in High Street, Armadale, chick Pulla, of course, and I'm going I'm there an hour early. So I just sit in the car and I'm going over my notes and I'm reading my cards. I'm reading my cards. I'm fucking sick. I'm so scared. Right anyway, I finally go in at about quarter two. I'm speaking on the hour. I go in fifteen minutes early. I go in to have a WII, of course I do,

and then I go into the Chaine rooms. Then I turn around and I look at myself and my light blue shirt. Half of it's dark blue because I've just sweated like a fucking I was going to say a terrible thing. I'll tell you too. Off air, I'd sweat it a lot, right, I'd sweat it a lot, And so I had these big I'm showing the girls here, but I had these big sweatstains going down to pretty much my waist, and I'm like, I can't so light blue, dark blue, no other shirt. So I'm in the change rooms. Now.

I've got like nine minutes. I can't even think about the presentation of my fucking cards because I look like I've just run a half marathon in a suit, right, So I'm basically a fucking five foot ten perspiration and so pilot water. So I go fuck it. So I'm in the I'm in the change rooms. I take off my shirt and then I'm standing. I turn up the air dryer, so I've got the air dryer upside down, blowing it must have been early days of air dryers, but blowing hot air up and I'm like a fucking

you know, like my mum, I'm drying the shirt. So I'm semi nude in a public place, drying my sweat stained shirt so so sexy, such a beautiful like beginning, and then I finally get it dry. I don't know if you know this, but when you're dry sweat stained blue shirts, there's like all this white stuff which is fucking so good. Like look like now I had a tied dye T shirt. And then of course I get in there and I start sweating again. So and then I was so bad. I'm not even being I'm not

even putting Mayo on this. I was so bad. I was so bad. And I remember looking up and just if you could read faces, they're like, oh god, how much longer? Right? So anyway, I think I pulled the pin a bit early and I just now and thanks everyone, you know, I see ya. And this one girl kind of waded around and I went, oh, maybe she's got question. Maybe she didn't think I was that shit. And she comes up to me kind of, you know, reasonably, like

I don't know, friendly, approachable, and she goes hi. I go hi, and she goes, can I just ask are you here next week? And I go yep, And she just looked like somebody just kicked her in the guards, right, She just she just went ah and walked off. She went ah and walked out the door with an extreme disappointment on her face. I'm like, yeah, I'm a gun at this, right, I'm a gun. I'm so good at this, and I did. That's not the only one. I had multiples of those. Like, so when people go, oh, you're

a natural, you just fucking nah nah. I think that's just an excuse for people to rationalize why they don't keep going, Like, of course it's fucking hard. I've been humiliated, embarrassed, I've been criticized. I still get people who send me shit and tell me they hate me. It's like, yeah, welcome to the fucking club. Of course it's hard. Of

course it's hard. Like as if you're going to be a raving success, as if you're not going to fail, as if you're not going to fuck up, as if you're not going to be humiliated, as if you're not going to be bad at things, like just if you know that's just where it happens, and you go all right, like if you were got that result, you know, for five years in a row, you might want to think your strategy. But yeah, so welcome to sweat City. That was it.

don't think so, and they fucking fall apart. Like if somebody actually disagrees with a thought or a message all they say, and I've had this, I've had a bloke go yeah, well that's not true. Now that is very That's like you being a comedian and someone going you're not funny, you know, and you just gotta you can't go hey, fuck off, you can't. You just gotta you know, Like that happened to me early days, and I went, well, I said, how about this, how about you and I

get together at the end and we'll pack that. But you and me, you and me having a debate in front of a hundred people is not going to happen. So thanks for the feedback. But you know, and of course it rocked me. Of course it was like, but you can't go ah ah fuck I give up and walk out, or you can. But you know what I mean, it's like, yeah, it's hard. Some people won't like you, you know, shardenfreuder. Some people want you to fail. Some people revel in your discomfort and your pain and you're

fucking ineptitude that makes them happy. Don't ask me why. That's another episode. But if you think, if you think the majority of people will be happy for you to succeed, you don't understand people. And that's a fucking sad thing to say. To not say everyone wants you to fail, of course, but you know, like I've done a few good things, and yeah, the amount of people that I know were genuinely re happy, it ain't that many. It ain't that many bothers them.

have had to work on. Like it's not like, oh, yeah, Craigs is fucking outstanding human with all these amazing values and morals and and that's not at all true. I'm just as fucked up as everyone. And there's been jealousy, and there's been resentment, and there's been in aptitude, and there's been fuck up And like, one of the funny things that happens in personal development is that I'll shut up after this and you can ask me another question, Kel.

But we talk about, you know, the shortcomings of us as a conscious beings, and we're always talking about someone else. Don't you hate it when people I'm like, you're a people, motherfucker, Like it's like, oh he is. Everyone talks about how much hard work she is, or how much hard work he is, or how my boss is this, or my colleagues are that, or nobody goes. Just thought i'd let you know I'm a count, just a heads up. You know,

I'm difficult, I'm fucking hard work. Nobody does that, but it's true for all of us at a time, right.

own that. I know that, and I'm grateful that I have somebody who is in my corner one even though i'm a little shit. I'm very very grateful for that.

with TIFFs, so tif you get ready. But so something that that was for you, or could have been from the outside looking in perceived as a failure, that that turned out to be a lesson or a growth opportunity, or something that in the moment you were like, fuck, this is a disaster. This is not what I wanted. But looking back, so yeah, I think I think that before either you jump in, I'll let you think a little bit. But I just wanted to so you both have your thinking time. I'm just going to talk to

the audience for a moment. So I wrote something down before that I want to read, and that is failure is not an objective reality. Hang on, sorry, I'm trying it. Yeah, failure is not an objective reality. It's a human made category. An outcomes happened. An outcome happens, and we decide, based on our expectations, values, and cultural narratives, whether to call it a failure or something else. Psychologically, the label activates emotion, shame, disappointment, frustration, sophically,

it's a judgment, not a truth. In one frame, it's evidence you weren't good enough. In another, it's data that refines your approach. In reality, it's simply an event stripped of any meaning, doesn't have a meaning, or it doesn't have a meaning for you until you give it one or some The same outcome can be a catastrophe or a catalyst, depending on the story you tell yourself. So it's not a fact. It's a label. It's a destination. It's not a destination. It's a detour. It's not a

death sentence. It's feedback. What you call failure is just an outcome you didn't want, wrapped in a meaning that you choose to give it. Someone else will call the same outcome a lesson, a launchpad, or a plot twist. So maybe it's not failure at all. Maybe it's progress wearing an ugly outfit. So I kind of for me, I'm like, I don't even really, I don't really know.

I don't see the value you even in business calling things that was a failure, I think recognizing that we didn't get the outcome we wanted, acknowledging it, saying well, we wanted a ten. We got a seven. Not sure why, but let's lean into that. So rather than getting into the emotion of we failed, let's get into the curiosity of how come we got a seven? Because whatever label you come up with, that's going to be your experience. If you go, we failed, then that means I am

a failure. We are failures. And now we're in a failure mindset because we just described the thing that we created. Whereas when I go, Wow, that wasn't the outcome we wanted or expected. I wonder what we could do different. I wonder what I could learn. I wonder how that group over there got a great outcome and we didn't. We can learn from our own experience and also what they did. So TIF, let's go, what do you got?

it was hard. It was one of the hardest times life that had a big knock on effect. But even in the middle of it, I had this gratitude for the lessons I went into that, going if this end badly, will I learn enough or grow enough to warrant maybe losing everything, Because if I lose, it'll be every you know,

get I don't have a fallback plan. And so when that was my choice, I knew I hadn't learned a thing I expected to learn about business, But I learned so much more about my own values and values that I was They were hard to learn.

do you know what I mean? It's like, oh fuck, no, no, no, that doesn't mean I'll relate to all business partnerships and like, but it's like, yeah, no, I'm pretty clear. It's like I did, you know, thirty five years of gyms and I loved it and then and then but now like I don't want It's not that that's bad, it's not what I want. I'm very clear. I want a very simple business model. I do not want thirty, forty, fifty,

sixty or even ten staff. And you go, yeah, And I think for you now now you've got much more clarity around what you want to do, who you want to be how you want to be and your business model than you know, even then a couple of years ago, you seem much clearer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, perfect, cal same thing.

studied screenwriting and then communication design as well. So I finally built up the courage to leave a very secure.

It was like I was punched in the guards, like it was horrible, and I thought, out of all of the people that this could happen to like me, you know, finally had this moment of going, yep, I'm gonna I'm going to step in there. I'm going to prove that to my owly, to myself. I'm going to prove to myself that I can do this. And I thought, I can't. I'm not good enough. I'm never going to be good enough.

I've I've tried to do it, it hasn't worked. And then as I've spoken about my shrink many times, she's like, nope, we keep going. And also because I've got a fair amount of stubbornness, I thought I can't go back. I need to keep going forward. So I applied for I think ten jobs, and the first two I applied for

they both offered me positions. Took the first one, yeah, and like I mean, I found out a few weeks later, so I'd still gone through this kind of whole six week period of so shit, I'm never going to get another job. I'm going to be you know, doing something like picking up rubbish on the beach. I don't know, my mind just went to really really dark places, but a lot of it was just I'm not good enough. I'm really not good enough. I tried. I failed. I'm

not good enough. Started in the job and it was fine, it was good, the people were people were fine. And then yeah, my dad got sick, and I thought, what are my values? Do I want to be working for someone else?

as fuck. I can't see shit other than that I'm a fucking oh back's rooted that I'm a natural, right, So yeah, but I mean if we're talking about things that kind of you know, we could do given the opportunity,

which I think is a lot of things for most people. Yeah, I yeah, that ability to be able to get rejected or you know, feel like you rejected and just go, oh, keep going anyway, Like, like, even do you know what is when those times when if you threw it in or you gave up, people would understand that go fuck, I don't blame you, that's shit, right, there are the times when you definitely want to step up, not give up, because it's in those moments I reckon where people might

think fuck and now how will she respond or he respond or? And you're like, yeah, I look, I feel crap. I genuinely feel sad, I feel disconnected, feel I feel frustrated. I feel all these things. But you know, me going home and just sitting on all these feelings still ain't going to get me anywhere. So the question is do I have the capacity to feel shit but nonetheless keep going?

Like that's in the middle of all of that. It's like Tiff and I have spoken many times about the real challenge with self help is not when you're all pumped and up and about, you know, you motivated, your inspired, Oh look at me self help one oh one, personal growth, positive psychology, fucking winning, ticking the boxes, hustling, grinding. Yeah,

what about when you feel fucking horrible? What are you doing then, Like when you can still do the work when everyone around you would give up and you cannot give up. I think that is what is going to separate sometimes the people who fulfill their potential or get close to it and those who wake up at fifty and go fucking hell, this wasn't my plan right now. I'm not saying that, you know, the odd thrown in the towel or giving up momentarily is not you know,

not acceptable, of course it is. There's been plenty of times where I've gone fuck this, but the next day I picked it back up. You know. So I think going into your cave for three years and going fucking you know, things aren't going to work. Life's not fair and fucking everyone's against me. I understand how that feels real, But the truth is, it's like I had this lady come into the gym once, should I have said that now. Anyway, was a lady. She did come into the gym and

it all ended well. She came in. She was really big. She wanted to be not big, tiff. What are you looking at me like that?

I said that. I said, one, that's a story in your head. I understand the story, but it's not real. Like I do this all the time. And by the way, we've had people who needed to do way more work than you currently need to do. And she's like, really, I go, yes, definitely, I go, of course, you've got work to do. And you want to lose a few pounds, you want to get fit, you want to change how you look, feel function. I get it, But there's we've had many people who've got more of a challenge ahead

of them, ahead of them than you currently do. Right. And then they go from everyone's looking at me, everyone's judging me, everyone's I shouldn't be here, Da da da, that's all and inner dialogue, it's not actually what's going

going on. What's actually going on as everyone in the gym is doing their own thing, thinking about themselves, thinking about dinner, thinking about that bloke across the other side of the gym, or chick across you know, it's like what you think is happening in your head in the gym,

it's not true. And the anxiety is coming from you, not the gym, you know, So it's like ah, And then that understanding, and again this all leads into like U, Kelly, being able to manage your mind and utif in the middle of outcomes that you didn't want, like being able to manage yourselves to be able to go well fuck it, which you both kind of did. What can I learn? How can I do better? How can I keep going you know, that's the that's the that's the magic that's

the magic pill. So ah, anything you too, No, We're good, cal always good. We appreciate you you. Oh gee, did we do an hour? What happened to? Just a quick one?