#1921 Movement Is Medicine - Kelly Smith

I'm very FM right now. Kelly Smith is back. She's back to ask me some questions. She's she's done a little bit of a tiff. She didn't live in the Bamboo, but she's she's slowly just making her way into the corridors of typ She was in the foyer for about a year. She's made her way up the stairs and now she's about three meters from my office and just just weaving her way into the team. HIKEL Hi, Craig, how are you.

she came on quite a while ago. She said, Hey, I've got some questions, and I went, why don't you ask me those questions on a microphone and we'll have a chat and maybe maybe that interaction will be of interest to other people. And I mean this with the most respect because Kelly and I are kind of the same. I like the fact that you just a regular human with regular challenges and regular questions, and I like, I mean as much as I like interviewing famous people who

are doing cool shit. I love I love talking to people like Scottie Douglas, who up today Sunday and the other day Scottie Douglas, the paramedic who had cancer, who's was a chef who owned multiple Have you heard any of him?

is at the cafe. I said, what we're doing right now, we need to do a version of what we're doing now where a bunch of people can listen because you're fucking interesting. And what I love about I don't know, I've said this a bunch, but what I love about just general normal conversations, where like you and I were having a chat before we pressed record, and I was thinking, fuck, we should be recording this because we're talking about where we grew up, your challenges in mind. I'm like, this

is actually good to listen to. But I love the fact that you know people can and obviously not everything will relate for everybody, but you know, the normal trials and tribulations, peaks and troughs of just trying to figure shit out and find find our things, find our reason, find our purpose, find our path, you know, and it's a never ending journey. But in the middle of all that to have some fun as well. So fuck, that was long winded, So welcome back.

is it, who are the people? How many have you seen really succeed and actually change what you call their internal operating system? So what kind of common factors do these people have. Is it like a personality trade, is it a level of determination? Is it like a routine they put in place? Is there something that kind of you can look at someone and go, yep, I know that you'll do it.

room wants to change. Like nobody says, hey, I want to spend whatever it was back then, sixty dollars an hour, three times a week, one hundred and eighty dollars a week, nine thousand dollars a year. And I don't want any change. I don't want results. I want to look just right. So the common denominator has changed. The common denominator is a desire to be different, feel different, look different, function differently.

But then what a lot of people don't think about so much coming in is that, oh, this is actually so much about my mind and my emotions and my beliefs and my thinking, and my background and my peaks and trufs and my anxiety, and it's so much about the internal stuff. It's about the stuff that we can't see, you know. It's about what are all of the emotional

and psychological and even sociological drivers of my behavior. In other words, I know that I shouldn't eat three pies a day, but I eat three pis a day sometimes. And when I say everything today, folks, no judgment, just conversation and just just awareness, just honesty. And I mean

I did the same thing. I mean I was. I've spoke many times about how I got to a point in my own journey where I just started to put back put weight back on after being very fit, very lean, and because I you know, for a range of reasons that I could justify. But the bottom line is it was just me making bad decisions and doing bad things and then trying to hide my own behaviors. Right. But it's trying to figure out what are the drivers of me, Like why do I do the stuff that I do?

And I think, broadly speaking, I don't think there's a single answer to that question, because you know, different people are driven by, you know, different things. Some people are moving away from something, some people are moving towards something, some people are doing both. Some people are moving away from the feeling that they have when they are a certain and weight or shape or size, or hit a health state, or they just don't want to be that anymore.

Other people, you know, drive to their mums on Sunday and see a fuck load of people doing a fun run and go, I want to do a fun run. I want to do a fun run. I want to be able to do that that looks amazing and I'm going to do what's required to do a five or ten. Because so they're moving towards that, but simultaneously, I guess also moving away from how they don't want to be. So there are these positive and negative motivators or reasons, I guess, But like, what makes the difference is, well,

a bunch of things. But this is weird. But I feel like in that this is very very much undercooking a very big question. But it almost comes down to how much do you want that thing? Really? And a lot of people will say i'd really fuck want it, and then it gets a little bit hard. They throw in the towel. I go, well, you don't really want it at all, You just like the idea of it. I mean, what are you prepared to do? How uncomfortable are you prepared to get? What sacrifices will you make,

What effort will you make? What things will you start doing and stop doing? How long will you do it for and what about in this situation? And what about if that happens? And what about if you get a sore foot? And what if you're at your sister's thirtieth birthday and what about? And it's like, oh oh, because you know, the truth is that unless it is really an inside out revolution, most people go back to what they did, like remembering. As you've heard me say many times,

the best predictor of future behavior has past behavior. So if somebody's kind of been not really doing the best thing for their body and their health, and you know, their function for the last forty five years, for the most part, the chances are that all be what they do in the future. That is not to say they can't change. It's to say that statistically most people won't change. Now, big distinction. Ye, So you know it's like I know

people who've literally been diagnosed with cancer and kept smoking. Yeah, I'm like, wow, wow, no judgment just for me, Like fucking hell that And they're not better than me or worse than me, and vice versa. But I'm like, oh my god, if somebody said to me, Craig, if you I don't know, if you ever eat another piece of bread, you're going to get whatever. I'd never eat another bit of bread, and it wouldn't even be an issue. I would just go right. I don't do bread the end.

Now that's a little bit about how my brain's wired. But I think when we can get people to really understand their body and their health and all the variables and be proactive rather than reactive, like we've said many times, people will shut up after this cal By the way, people tend to wait till something breaks or something's wrong, or they're sick, or they get a diagnosis, or they're

terrified to get serious. And I'm saying, well, get serious now. Now, serious doesn't mean that life's got to be revolving around exercise and or gym or beating fucking high this low that food for the you know, it's just like, oh, well, what's the best system or the best operating kind of protocol for you? But invariably it comes down to, on the simplest of levels, how deeply somebody wants that and how important it is to them, I.

just talk to this person? And I went. My proviso was, if they want to talk to me and they know what I'm about, gladly, I'll gladly do it. I'll gladly give them an hour of my life and energy and focus and forty five years of experience. I'll give them all of that. But they have to be fucking boots and all right. They need to be. Don't come to me if you're not ready. If you're ready, I'll do everything I can do to help you. But if you're not ready, then you know, carry on, enjoy life and

get back to me when you're ready. Right, And we got together and they're definitely not ready. Yeah, they're not ready. And I don't mean that to be arrogant. I just know that because I've done that so many times, and even a few weeks later, that's proving to be true right now. So, like I said to you before we started, I'm I'm not. I think one of the reasons I am quite consistent and focused and committed when I figure out what I want to do, be create change is

because I thinks I'm not naturally gifted. I don't have great genetics. I can't run fast or jump high. I'm not brilliant. I'm not I can't sing, I can't dance, I can't you know all those things. Which is not to say I had no talent or no intelligence, but it was to say that if you objectively think do I want to get the most out of my body and my life and my career and my most people are going to go yeah, I do. I do, And

then I would say cool, how will that happen? Like do you want a nine or a ten out of ten result? Or do you want to two? Well, everyone's going to go I want a nine. I go, well, right now, your effort and application is a two, and but you're telling yourself it's a seven. So this is and this is one of the hard things, real hard things in self awareness, human behavior, you know, psychology, personal growth, whatever we want to call it, is that we love to give ourselves a get out of jail card, and

we love to rationalize what we're not doing. And what's very convenient is when it's not my fault, then I don't have to change. So I'm going to go it's not me, it's Kelly, Kelly fucking I'd be there, but Kelly keeps letting me down. And also Kelly said she would she would give me some advice on nutrition. She hasn't even called me, and we were going to together. She skips every second day. And look, I'm not where I should be because of Kelly. And you people go

as if anywhere everyone does that everyone does. It might be about their mum, it might be about their genetics, it might be about their boss, it might but the amount of people who do not take ownership of what they are not doing. Now, I'm not saying there are no shit parents or shit bosses, of course, but to say that that is the entirety of your subsistence or you know, living the life that you don't want to live is to go. It's got nothing to do with me. Well, that's delusion one I won.

revelation to me was how people treated me. I'm like, oh, I'm because I went from being really out of shape, I mean, morbidly obese to exceptionally fucking fit, like stupidly fit. And you know, maybe the fittest, not the most talented, not the most athletic, but maybe the fittest kid in my school. And then so all of a sudden, I'm fit, and I'm doing you know, push up, some body weight

and chin ups. Hadn't started weights yet, or maybe I was just about start weights, but I was in really good shape, and my world changed around me, and people treated me different. Even adults treated me different, Teachers treated me differently, girls. All of a sudden, I wasn't completely invisible to the other sex. You know, all that kind of teenage angst stuff where you go, oh fuck, now, that's all understandable. But the problem with that for me

was I learned a bad lesson. And the lesson I learned was, Wow, the better I look, the better I get treated. Now we don't want to hear that. But that still happens in our culture today in twenty twenty five. People think it doesn't you fuck get out and about right. It doesn't happen all the time to everybody, but it definitely happens. And so then I learned, well, if I'm this lean, imagine if I was a bit leaner, if I can, if I've got these muscles, imagine if I

had those muscles, if I had you know. And so that for me became a bit of an unhealthy obsession. And I that took that took a fair wile to

figure out. But specifically to your question, when I started training people, I was really largely about the body and the mechanics of the body, and you know biomechanics and nutrition and muscles, and you know sets and reps and volume and pushing and pulling and progressive overload and lift this and jog there and stretch that, and this is how we build muscle, and this is how we build fitness,

and this how we build flexibility. So very much from a my knowledge was not great, by the way, but from a fundamental scientific principle place, then then you realize, I've been training this lady for six months and she's gained two kilos and her goal is to lose twenty. I'm like, what's going on? And then I'm like, I think she's lying or I think he's lying. It doesn't matter who right. Just happened that a lot of my clients were women. And then so people would be telling

me things that just weren't true. They'd be going, oh, no, I go tell me what you ate yesterday, and they'd tell me, and I'm like, okay. And then a week later, I'm like, tell me, and all of the reports on the alleged diet did not seem consistent with the body that I saw in front of me. And then eventually, and I mean I'm talking about not just you know, run of the meal human beings. I'm talking about doctors that I worked with. I'm talking about people who are

super smart, intelligent. I mean everyone was intelligent, I guess, but you know what I mean, I'm not talking about uneducated people too. And I figured out, oh, people bullshit. People bullshit about what they do because they don't want to be seen as being weak or flawed. They don't want to be embarrassed. They don't want to own up. And then you know, also talking to people who would that'd come into me and they'd be all guns blazing, pumped, exited, motivated,

in the zone. Fuck, I'm going to change my life. And that would last two weeks and I'm like oh, and then then just not showing up. And this is back more when I was working as a gym instructor, right and people would join for like, the amount of people that would join a gym for a year and come less than ten times, some of them less than five would blow people's mind. You're like, oh, as if

anyone don't trust me, people do it a lot. And so then trying it for me to understand what's all the humans stuff and the people stuff underneath the body stuff, because I'm not bad with bodies, but I don't really understand people. So that was and I was probably twenty two or three working as a gym instructor, just before I started personal training and my first book I wrote

terrible title but good intention. The book was called Fattitude, which is essentially this is pre political correctness right like Core of a century ago. But it was really about the psychology of getting in shape. And I use getting in shape as a blanket term for whatever people want to achieve with their body. Right, So, yeah, I was, and I'm stillgo. You know, my research, my current research. So for me, I'm way more interested in minds and brains and human behavior and psychology and why we do

shit and why we think the way we do. Way more interested in all of that than muscles. Muscles are great, but you knowuscles just respond to the mind.

this is great, I can do this. And then she said, it's always really obvious when somebody is lying about what they eat, because nothing will change with their workouts. And I thought, oh shit, like I actually I never thought of it in that way. I just thought, if you're working out, then you know, you'll get muscle, you'll get lean, you'll get fit. Thinking about the nutrition part of it, it never well, it never came into my mind in

my twenties for sure. So to hear that for you in your twenties that it just all started to click for you that there was all of this correlation between mind and body. That's really cool that at that age that's what you figured out.

or your overall health state whatever that is. You know go, oh well, we go, well, there's exercise, yeah, and then under that, well there's strength training and fitness training and muscular endurance and aerobic endurance and flexibility and balance and speed and coordination and like oh fuck, there's just and then how much should you train and how hard should you train? And how much of this should you do

versus that and how often? And by the way, what is intensity is seven out of ten for me seven out of ten for you? No, because all of this is unique to the individual, right So, and then oh well, how much recovery should I have and how much time between sets? And should I train legs twice a week or once a week? And should I do interval training or should I do steady state cardio training? And should I do it on a treadmill? Is that better than outside?

Or is outside better? Because running on a treadmill has got a fucking deck. And right now, that's just one component. That's before we get to sleep. That's before we get to food. That's before we get to lifestyle and booze and drugs and stress. And I mean, what people don't understand is there are a fucking million variables that impact

your body. So you can go to the gym five days a week and train like an Olympian and look like dog shit and feel like dogshit because you don't sleep, You're constantly stressed, you're pumping out cortisol all day, your diet is substandard, and you drink booze every day. But five days a week you train like a hero. Well that's good, but that's like five percent of it, you know. So it's it's about optimizing. You know this, and I've said this to you before, but it's like I'm like,

all right, well, I'm sixty one. I can't get another body, can't get better genetics, can't get more hours in a day, can't undo anything that I've done, can't go back and change history, can't wake up tomorrow and b sixty three. So with my body, with my genetics, with my fucked shoulders, with my time, with my money, with my resources, with my intentions and goals, what should I do? How do I optimize my body? Now? If we didn't have emotions, all we'd do is go, what's the best thing for me?

And we'd figure that out and then we just do it. But we have emotions, so we go and fucking hurts today, Kelly looked at me and fuck, I'm back. And then we wake up and it's five years down the track. It's now two thousand and thirty and we're doing the same thing that didn't work in twenty twenty five. And then we reach for the excuse jar and go, oh, but you don't understand, right, I'm like, I've just had I think sometimes people quite rightly, might think I'm intolerant.

I am not. But I've just had the same conversation with people for forty years. So that, Oh, you don't understand my body, you don't understand my sits. You don't. I'm like, maybe, but maybe you don't understand what's required to actually fucking change. Maybe you don't want to do the work. Maybe you're in love with the idea, but

maybe you are terrified of the process. Maybe you want to talk about it, but you don't want to do it, which is why you're always posting shit on social media, but you're never actually fucking doing anything in secret when no one's looking, because you want attention. Now, all of these things are barriers. I feel like I've opened a new door hell insac. All of these things are barriers to you becoming independently strong and self sufficient because the

more we the more we depend. How do I say this, The more we are dependent right on accolades and endorsement and around of applause. And you're amazing, Kelly. Oh you went for a run. Look at you. Oh you posted your time and your distance and your heart rate. And oh, good on you, and oh look and look what she's eating for breakfast, You're amazing. All that, to me is such toxic psychological bullshit because all we're doing is looking

for approval. All we're doing is looking for approval. I'm not okay, let me re date that often what we're doing is looking for approval. And for me, I know it's a very common thing to do, so I know I'm probably getting in trouble. But the reason that I say it is because I want people to be independently

committed and proactive and productive. And if people know good, if people don't know good, like, what we don't need is a bunch of people who addicted, who are addicted to attention, who are addicted to positive reinforcement, who will not do what's required unless there's some kind of social recognition or trophy, because now all we've built is another addiction that we have to meet or feed versus you know, like, and I'm a fuck up. I fuck up all the time.

But yesterday I got home at nearly ten o'clock from seeing my mum and my dad, and I've been busy all day, so I hadn't been for our walk and as you know, my rock bottom is ten thousand. And by the time I bought all the shit in from the card that I looked at my steps and I've done like four thousand, five hundred. I'm like, oh goody. So I just put on a coat and I went out. I went out and I did six thousand steps at eleven o'clock. And just because I've got to do ten thousand.

And I know that life doesn't end if I don't. But I go, all right, well, what else do I need to do? Nothing in particular, Can I get another six thousand done? I can? And so and I know, ironically I'm now talking about it on my show, right, but for a reason, you know, But it's like, what can you do when no one's looking? Because we're trying to build habits that are just ingrained, not behaviors, habits that are present when someone's looking.

more so accountability. And I've listened to and read quite a few things where there's people who they might be socially isolated or lonely or don't have big groups of people, and so they're like, well, for me posting this online, it's actually it's pushing me out of a form of my comfort zone and it's making me accountable to whoever it is, could be the invisible audience that they have. Yeah, how close do you think? Approval and accountability are linked?

to get something back. So it's completely strategic, not loving. Like it's the same thing driven by a different driver or a different emotion. You know. One is I'm putting this shit up because when I put it up, it just it keeps me in the zone and it might encourage a few other people. And like, one of the reasons I put up stuff is because I want people

to see someone who's old, who's in pretty good shape. Yep, that's it, you know, But that's why I do it very infrequently, but I want, you know, I think one of the biggest things, one of the challenges for me anyway, is to get people to believe in themselves and to it, or at least get curious more curious about their potential.

my sisters. Blah blah blah blah. Anyway, so I took Gil, who's the husband my pseudo dad. I chatted to him through the week and he's eighty five going on fifty five. He's a freak, right, I rang him the other day. This is true. So he lives in Morewell, out of Morewell, in amongst the what used to be called the stray and paper mill, but forests with all these just like kilometers and kilometers and kilometers of just trees, and there's all these fire trails and dirt trails. So he's eighty five.

I rang him and it's I was about to hang up, and he answered, and he'd answered on his ear piece and he'd pressed, whatever, I don't even have one of those, and he pressed, and he was on his mountain bike on a twenty five k ride in the dirt. But

this is what he's like. He's a weapon. And anyway, he'd spoken to me a bit about, you know, getting doing some strength training because he's very very like he has a farm, is very bloky, very blokey, buildshit, fixes shit, but you know, just doing something too consciously anyway to build strength. And I went, well, look, I can come over and write your program. I said, but why don't we just like meet There's a gym literally five minutes from his house. Let's just meet there. I'll take you

in here. He's like, I don't really want to train in a gym, Like he never trained in a gym, and so I went, I'll tell you what, Let's just meet there. Let's do it there. Because it's much more convenient than me trying to teach you shit in your

lounge room or garage. So I took him there. And because he's got a very, very mechanical engineering brain, creates things, builds things, and he never really been in a gym like that, and he was jumping on you know, like, for example, the pinloaded leg press, you know, like the one at Snap that you use or I use, and he's like, oh my god, look at this, and like all of these and just all of these different like I just got him to use pinloaded stuff, right, because

it's a nice starting point. He was just blown away. He had he had this idea of what a gym was, and that he would look stupid because he's eighty five and obviously everyone would be thirty with massive muscles and lean and a Miss World contestant or a Mister Universe contestant. And he was not that. And he had this whole story. And we went there yesterday afternoon at like three o'clock

in the thriving metropolis of Morewell. While there was you know, one bloke and a cat, there was no one there, right, And so we trained him. By the end of it, he's like I'm going to join. I didn't say, do you want to join? He goes, I'm going to join? How good is all this stuff? I go, ah, you know so? And I think that you know you said before you walked into a great big intimidating gym, whereas

I would go, no, you didn't. You walked into a space that you labeled a great big intimidating gym because most people in there on that day and not thinking I'm in a great big intimidating gym, but you are right then. I don't know how long you went there for, but I'm sure after a period of time you didn't call it.

does great things for my body and my mind. And I remember actually one time bumping into you before we really started talking, and my psychologist had said to me, what I'm prescribing to you is it will never be drugs. It will be exercise. You need to exercise every single day and that will be the biggest help for you. And that was for anxiety.

my mind in shape. And I said, legs and just walked in because it was still we didn't know each other all that well then, and it wasn't really at a time socially we're talking about mental health was something that was so open, whereas now it's like, well, no, I actually for my mind need to go in and do all of that. So yeah, so you're right, Like initially it was, it was big and intimidating, and then after that I was like, no, no.

and intimidating. Right, that's your story. And by the way, there's no criticism in this because I've you know, I've gone in front of academic panels of four people, by the way, four people the guy who talks to a thousand in a room, and I'm like, this is the most terrifying fucking experience in my life. This is you know. And it's like, well, no, that's your that's your version of it, Craig. It's just four people listening to you talk. But I'm like, oh yeah, but I'm the dumbest in

the room by a million miles. And this is their this is their natural habitat. I'm not an academic blah blah. I have this whole story. And I've done four of those, now what they're called academic milestones through your PhD, And the first one to the last one was a very different experience, you know, because you're like, ah, I get it.

And all of the trauma is created by my thinking, all of the discomfort is a result of my story about the big intimidating gym or the big intimidating academics looking at me, listening to me, which is not to say it's not real. It's real, but it's like, you know, it's that old chestnut you lift the ten kilos and it's so heavy, and then one day it's so light, but it's actually the exact same way, Like why is it light now? Well, because I've changed, I've adapted. I'm different.

Therefore my relationship with that thing is different. The thing that was hard is now easy. And that's like that's with everything. That's like with public speaking. That's like with talking to Craig Harper in the gym. You know you

might have been intimidated and then now you're comfortable. You know you were like, oh far, I don't know how you were, but I'm guessing that your experience talk to me on day one, and not that I'm special or anything, but I've just been told so many times how fucking terrifying I am, so I must be.

put it together. And then there was one day we're reading the paper on my partner said, this is the dude from the gym. What's he doing in the paper? And yeah, And that's how it all kind of came together as to who you are. And I'm like, that's why people want to talk to him, because he knows shit.

me in the face of both. But so I'm writing a new workshop which I'm going to wheel out around Australia too, you know, all around. So I think I'm going to most major cities between kind of August and the end of the year. And the workshop is called the You Experiment, right, and it's about it's about the reality that what will work for Kelly won't work for Jane.

What will be optimal for Kelly could be catastrophic for Sally. Right, what will work for my training partner the crab won't work for me for a range of reasons, or it might kind of work kind of the same, or and it's trying to figure out okay for me in you know, if we personalize it to you, for me, for Kelly Smith, what's the best job for me? What's the best environment for me to work in? How do I best what's the best kind of leadership style for me? Or how

do I be a great team member? Or what what about what time of the day should I eat? How much sleep do I need?

you know, or don't lift weights. Maybe go rock climbing or maybe do pilates, or maybe do body weight exercise, or maybe fucking climb a tree. Or maybe maybe don't go for a run, maybe hike in nature. Maybe don't sit on an exercise bike, maybe get a real bike. Maybe don't take drugs because your psychologist said you don't need to, so you go for a walk or you

go to the gym. You know. It's so like my whole thing is trying to get the message out that despite what you get told, there is almost nothing that works for everybody equally. Yeah, yeah, I don't think. I can't think of one thing where this diet, this protocol, this strategy, this workout, this amount of sleep, whatever it is, where that particular approach to solving that problem where the answer is the same for everybody, because it just doesn't exist.

that the one size fits all is just ridiculous. And then after that discussion, I was reading from another podcast as she was saying, I'm so fed up with the fitness industry because for five minutes, you're told to do hit and then you're told to do CrossFit, and then you're told to go for a run, and then you're told to fast, and then you're told that you need to have threely of water a day, and then you're told that you need to do this, but hold on,

that's not on trend anymore, so you need to do this, and then you need to wear these shoes. And she said, it is so overwhelming, and I'm so sick of it, and I just want to do what is right for me without being told that this or that is right for me. And she said, so I'm off to pilates because that's what I enjoy and if I enjoy it, then I'll stick with it. And I thought great.

you might hate it. You might last four sessions and go fuck this, or you know, maybe you'll go, I'm not gonna I'm going to give up coffee. I might do four weeks without coffee and see what happens, you know, or I might like me when I started walking my

minimum ten thousand steps a day. It's the single best thing that I've done for me in the last five years, and such a fundamental, basic, simple thing, like not that I not that I care so much about what I weigh, but I pretty quickly lost four kilos, which i've so I was eighty five for the last twenty years, give or take, and now maybe one. I stay there. I haven't lost any strength. If I've lost any muscle, I don't.

I can't see it. Maybe I have. But my brain works better, my energy is better, I think my you know, like my attitude, my emotions are better. I enjoy being out there. The back issues that I've had for twenty years seem to be touchwood miraculously gone because I'm just walking so much. And I also do some backward walking by the way. Everyone backward walking obviously in the right place and done the right way, it can be fucking precarious.

I'm not talking about, you know, along Chapel Street. But you know, it's just like, oh, who would have thought that the exercise scientists with a million years of experience and all of this shit would discover in inverted commas that walking was fucking groundbreaking? And you know, for me, just amazing. And the guy that used to only run five to fifteen k's who does three two kilometer runs a week. In the old days, they would have gone

two kilometers. Fuck two kilometers. What's the benefit of two kilometers? You're not even more You're not even getting out of the house. And now I go out the side gate, I run like Phoebe Buffet. If anyone watches friends, you know, I run like a crazy person for two k's. I get home in about whatever nine or ten minutes and I go boom. That's me. And it's literally thirty minutes or twenty five minutes a week of my life. And yeah,

it just but you just figure out what works. So that's I've spent my life figuring out what works for me and trying to help others do the same.