Bobby Capuccio, Welcome back to the you project, my.
Friend, welcome back to the self. How bad to do it?
Craig going, Hey, it's going good, buddy, life is good. It sounds a bit cheesy, right, Sometimes I feel like, I don't know, I don't want to sound trite, but I am very grateful. I'm very I don't know whether or not it's genetic or it's something that I've developed, but I haven't. I do really have an ever present
sense of gratitude for how good my life is. And maybe it's because I talk to a lot of people whose lives are not great, and maybe I pay attention to people around the world whose reality is nothing like mine. I feel very through no effort or work or sacrifice of my own. I feel just very privileged because I think I was born at a good time in a good country with good parents, and yeah, so that's how
I feel. Do you feel that ever? I mean, I know your childhood wasn't mine, and you've had some shit, But do you feel grateful?
Quite often? Quite often? I mean, you know, sometimes I'm just like in the midst of complaining some yeah, sometimes over trivial things. Yeah, you know, it's probably my enlarged amigdala, But very often I do feel quite grateful. The other day I thought, oh, you know, I'm in my house right now with my wife. We're both relatively healthy, We've got a roof over our head, We're alive, we've got a cat. I know he's relatively okay but very healthy.
Has he given you toxi Plesmoses.
No, no, no, we were concerned about that. If I start engaging in any inexplicably high risk behaviors, we're going to drive me down to urgent care check me out. Yeah, but yeah, he's he might be infected with it, either that or just I don't know, got bumped on the head one too many times.
But I love them.
I just want to start out, you know, and this is this is a very important conversation around gratitude. I just want to start out recanting a statement that I made that was highly inaccurate on I think our last podcast or the one before that. I had just got back from Australia. And I'm not trying to blame this on jet lag. Actually, yes, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to blame this on jet Lag and I had said that there were two hemispheres and
they were split from east to west. But there's actually an eastern and western hemisphere. Like, how did I not? How did that not come to mind? It split right down Greenwich in England. Oh really Yeah, Like seventy percent of London is in one hemisphere, the other bits are in another hemisphere. I didn't know my hemisphere. It's literally the center of the world.
When you start talking about two hemispheres, I thought you're talking about the brain for a moment, which is what we talk about way more than the world now.
But this time we were talking about global hemispheres and we said it was north and south divided into two. But it's literally four hemispheres. So take everything I say with a grain of salt, because I'm a couple of the hemisphere.
Short, Why do we always talk about the northern hemisphere the southern hemisphere, but never eastern norwestern? If that is the case.
I know, it's like I think it's I think it's just like a bad pure team. Whoever the marketing team is behind the northern and southern hemispheres. I think they're they're crushing it. Where the eastern and Western hemisphere, they need to think about making some organizational changes.
Well, I'm glad you've cleared that up, because all of our listeners will sleep better tonight knowing that and Northwestern very great conversation started to Oh, dear, I was listening
to this thing the other day. Two dudes talk and I can't remember they're both pretty educated, but one was talking about the fact that when we get you know, like when we've got lots of crap going on, lots of problems, lots of challenges, and you know, we're not having a great time, and all we want is we want the problems to be resolved, things to be fixed,
life to be better, you know, all that stuff. And then he either he'd done some research or he's talking about some research where when people get to the point where now they have far less problems. So I don't know, let's just pretend they've got a quarter of the problems. So instead of having twelve problems, they've now got three. But what they do is they just self regulate in a bad way so that those three problems caused them as much stress and trauma as the twelve that they
used to have. And so even the fact that that you know, practically they're life is better. Experientially, it's just as shit because they kind of self regulate in a bad way to find something to be miserable about.
That's interesting. Durkheim said the same thing on a societal level, that if a society arrives at a point where it has resolved many of its existential problems, it will go ahead and create them. Will overreact to the slightest provocation, Like you know, the supermarket used to have four brands of milk and now they're down to three, and this is completely unacceptable, and of course Karen's going to want to speak to the manager.
Can you not mention Karen? I feel like poor Karen gets a hard time.
It isn't you know. It's been a rough few years for Karen's everywhere. I apologize in my sessions. I don't know how I landed on this right Well, you.
And a few million others, Poor Karen.
Karen thing I'm just repeating because somebody identified that a woman named Karen there was the perfect archetype. They imagined a woman or someone they know named Karen, and that's how it came to be. But for me, it's Jill. Whenever I'm doing a workshop, the person in the office
who is an absolute nightmare is Jill. And I always ask at some point anybody in the audience just happens to be named Jill, And every so often somebody very sheepishly will raise their hand, like after I've completely assassinated their character, and I have to go to Jill. Sorry, clearly we're not talking about you. It's that other Jill, but yeah, you just I think we need a name we didn't.
I tend to use Brian because I think I feel like it's safer to use a dude than a fema a lady, because just I feel it's safer. But then it's not really safe to use. But one of the things that people like, I put up a post a week ago and it says, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, which is broadly speaking true. Right, It's not it's not guaranteed, but it's pretty good predictor. And then I wrote, you may or may not have
read it. So if Brian was a C word the last four hundred times, he'll probably be a C word today, right, So, and then all these people sent me a message and go my brother's Brian. He's great I and I'm like, you know, this is not real, and you know, there's not really a Brian. This is me just telling a story. But it's like people were coming to the defense of
other people called Brian. I'm like, well, I wasn't saying that this behavior or this kind of personality is representative of people called Brian.
I'm like, oh, it's an example. It's not like every Brian. Now, if your name happens to be Chad.
Well, then definitely that's all Chads. Yeah, of course, of course that goes without saying no. But it's it's funny that, you know, I don't want to get myself in trouble, but I feel like people actually proacts. Look, fuck, they look for reasons to be offended, and if there's not one, obviously this is a fictitious character. And I'm not talking about people broadly speaking who have that name. No, my brother's names and I want you to know he's one
of the nicest people. And I'm like, I'm sure he is, and I don't know him, so clearly this wasn't about him, but you know, we sold your on.
Yeah. I can't even dive into the topic because I will, without question, get myself into trouble. Me and you doing a podcast episode and trying not to get ourselves in trouble. So yeah, well, thank you for attending another episode of the You Project and the self help Antido. Might as well wrap it up right here.
You're telling me before we went live that without throwing you under the bus, but you'd been dealing with a few challenging things today and a few you know, a bit of stress going on. What's your kind of You're in a leadership position, You're a coach or a teacher. You kind of manage individuals, lead people, all that stuff, well more in a leadership capacity, I guess than a
management role per se. But how do you approach? And I know there's no three step plan or generic kind of protocol, but when you're around people that are let's just call it what it is, metaphorically losing their shit for a good reason or not a good reason, doesn't matter. What do you do? Like, how do you what are
some of the things that you do? Because I feel like more and more of us are around people at the moment who are struggling, and just again underlining no three step plan, we get it, but how do you approach it? Man?
This came up in a seminar I was giving yesterday. Actually a question came up where I'm like, ooh, that's I think that's above my pea greed. But there are a lot of questions along these lines. And it came up with because very often we'll experience, especially when we really care about the person and we're invested, we won't
just experience empathy, but will experience emotional contagion. Well, will become overwhelmed in that situation, or somebody says something that triggers an unresolved issue in our life that we might not even realize is unresolved, and we experience what's called VI carriage trauma, and that in both of those scenarios, and I was kind of doing this a little bit with my wife to be really candid, you get into a position where you're no longer as readily able to
act compassionately because empathy is good. Because when you have empathy and you can project yourself into the situation, the thoughts and behaviors, the feelings of another human being, you're more motivated to act on their behalf to help lessen their suffering. To a point that you can cross that threshold easily, where I've become so consumed with their situation
that I've crossed the line into sympathy. I'm no longer feeling with them, I'm feeling for them, and I'm more acutely aware of my own emotional impact listening to their story. So the first thing is grounding, like if I know that if first of all, do you know you're going to go into a high stakes conversation or do you not know you're gonna go into a high stakes conversation? It's just the peers in the national natural flow of the dialogue. I try to find grounding, like yeah, feet
flat on the floor, Like what am I feeling? An attack? Highle way? Second is inter reception. What is the physical sensation? Because before you know exactly what you're feeling, you identify that something has physiologically changed, and your experience a sensation that's coupled with elevated emotional arousal. So where is that in my body? I instantly start to go look inside. Is it a constriction? Is it like a tensing sensation? Where is it? Is it in my chest? Is in
my jaw? I try to I lean into that a little bit, So as I'm talking to them, I'll go into that sensation. If I feel it's happening in my chest, I'll tighten it further. So if it's at a level six, I'll take it up to a level eight and then just relax it, like let go of that tension. Second thing is I'll start to be mindful, but not mindful in terms of what's going on with me what's going on with them. I'll deepen the pace or the degree at which I listen, and I'm not necessarily talking about words.
I'm talking about nonverbal like what what's their voice inflection? Where is their strain and their voice? Is it on a certain word? Is there a change in the spatial relationship between me and this person? Do they disengage that, do they disassociate, lean back, or do they lean forward
and decrease the level of space in between us. By doing that, I'm not only more tuned to what's happening with them, but I'm focusing intentionally on what's happening in the moment, moment by moment, So I'm helping to utilize mindfulness strategies to create engagement and self regulation in myself. That's really useful.
So a couple of things out of that. So, I mean, there's the stuff that people are telling us when they're not talking, which is what you're talking about, right, So what is he saying? What is she saying that they're
not saying. There's that, But then there's there's what's in front of us, what we see, you know, their physiology, their body language, their microexpressions there, you know, and the other stuff that's less visible, you know, like the cadence and the you know whatever, the timing and all of those things. But then there's our ability to be able to accurately interpret that, because seeing one thing is something. Knowing what that accurately represents, you know, that's another thing.
Like because it's all well and good to go, Like, I've looked at some people and gone, they fucking hate me, And they don't hate me, they love me. They're just intrigued. But their faces going, their faces go, and you're a prick. But that's I'm like, oh, like you and I have spoken about in audiences where we think somebody hates us and we find out later no, they were just really engrossed.
Let's unpack that for a bit because you're right, and I'm not doing this to accurately interpret what's happening with them. I'm doing this to stay anchored to them, to pay attention to them, and not kind of leave them as I lose myself in my own emotional reaction to their situation or their or their experiential state. So I'm kind
of anchoring myself to this. I'm doing it from care, which you know Stephen Porgius talks about that facilitates a polyvagal response where we stimulate the eventual nerve branch of the vagus nerve.
Okay, I'd dumb that down force we are.
We are engaging our nervous system in a way that is supporting a parasympathetic state rest and digest. We're moving into a greater state of relaxation. I need to stay connected to that person, but simultaneously stay connected to myself in the moment, so my level of arousal does not elevate to the point where one like I'm in a very precarious situation, or two I'm completely useless for this
individual another. So I'm just concentrating on am I I'll just exhale for a greater duration than I'm inhaling that could be That could be really useful. And if if you're in a situation with someone where you just can't right and it's not where it would be completely inappropriate to end the conversation. It's not like this is a sick patient and you're a doctor or you're a therapist, then they're in crisis. You could also say, hey, you know what, be vulnerable. This is very important to me
what you're saying. I'm quite invested in this. At the same time, i deeply care about you as a person, and I'm noticing that I'm having a reaction right now where I don't feel I'm being as present as I can be with you. Can we take a break? Can? Because I want to be able to give this the attention that it deserves and bring all of myself to
this conversation. So when you voice that you're not only releasing oxytocin because of that relationship, which there's evidence that that could kind of mitigate the cortisol levels in your body at the moment, but you're also decreasing the intensity
that those emotions have over you. It's what doctor Bernie Siegel coined, name it to tame it, So you're being vulnerable with them, you're being quite present and authentic with them, and you're also engaging through that vulnerability in self regulatory practices. So that kind of helps. Yeah, that's answering. Am I answering your question? I speak?
Yeah, No, it's good. I mean, like, we probably don't need to say it again, but we'll say it again. Hey, everyone, this is not advice. This is two blokes talking about human behavior. And both Bobby and I are always in front of people, either one on one or with groups, and this is just something that we navigate a lot. I don't think either of us do it perfectly, probably never will, but I like to talk. You know, you do what I do. I do what you do slightly different,
but there's a lot more similarity than dissimilarity. So I'm genuinely curious about your perspective and your kind of operating system in a similar place to mine. My next question is how how do you figure out how much to help or intervene or And the reason I say that is like I literally coached someone this morning and they asked me a question and they weren't really looking for
an answer. They were looking for endorsement, and I went quite, not brutally, but quite, you know, I go, you don't need to ask me that that's a dumb question, because you know, and they went yeah, I know. I went, okay, good, and they weren't hurt, they weren't upset. But I just feel like there's a point where helping people becomes unhelpful because we still like, we want to support people, love people, care for people, but we don't want to become enighblers.
So now they can't do anything unless we're around. They have no resilience, they can't perform under pressure, which is where our conversation started. So what's the line where do you like so you're.
Talking about a coaching bast situation. Yeah, I mean like you're a client.
One of the things I used to say to my clients, and I meant this and this is a very bad business strategy, but it aligned with my ethics. I would say to my clients, my job is to teach you as much as I can, as quickly as I can, to get you up to speed, to help you get in the best shape that you can in the time that we have without you being injured, To create an experience that you enjoy and then for me to get
out of the way. My job is to make myself redundant, right, because I don't want you to be dependent on me, because that's great for my ego and my bottom line, but it's shitited for you. I want you to become the weapon. I want you to become empowered. I want you to be resilient. I want you to understand your body. I want you to be able to be the calm and the chaos. Right. And that's literally or a version
of that, is what I would say to people. And I feel like there's a real juggling act and emotional and sociological juggling act sometimes when you're in front of people to not do the work for them and to not tell them that it's all okay when it actually isn't.
I agree with you. I mean, in certain situations, you're not giving a keynote or a seminar, you're given a workshop. Well, people are kind of coming there to be told what to do. Here's step number one. Here step if you admit that you know it's kind of you know why
they bought the ticket. So the context of the situation speaks to what what the boundaries are there in a coaching based conversations, whether I'm doing a group coaching session with a group of executives or whether I'm coaching one on one.
Can I interrupt for one sec? Sorry to be a prick. Most of our listeners are not coaches, So can we fuck off that as a coach? Can we just go as a person talking as a person? So just it could be a friend, it could be a mum, not a client, just another human that you know, And like, we don't need to be psychologists or coaches to be able to have meaning for conversations with people about So let's just if we can make than you like, let's make it more because yeah, we're not talking to coaches
and sichs. We're talking to you know, just our regular listener who wants to apply this some Yeah, just as relative to the average punter as possible.
For me. Is there an imminent threat? So somebody tells me that they're thinking of hurting themselves, right, or thinking about hurting someone else, or they've they've done something that is highly injurious, you know, So you're you're you're talking to your nephew and they just revealed that they had stolen from your brother. Uh. Yeah, those are things where I'm going to intervene a lot of the time because someone's welfare is at stake.
Yeah.
My take on it is whenever you become the solution for here's what you need to do, Yeah, you're really screwing people up. Because one, there's there's readiness. Just because somebody's talking to you about something or asking a question, does it mean that they are absolutely ready? And when you push readiness people actually they experience recidivism. They relapse
into lower levels of readiness and preparation for change. The second thing is like, let's say they go out and they do what you tell them to do and it doesn't work. Now what. Or let's say they go out and they do exactly what you told them to do and it does work.
Now what.
They didn't increase in capacity that was your recommendation. They didn't increase in self efficacy and competent confidence. You did that. So I'm really reluctant to go out and give advice because it's not often followed. Sometimes it's more harmful than it is helpful. A lot of times, when somebody say, say I want to ask you a question, what they're really saying is I want to talk things out in my head so I can get a little bit greater clarity around where I am at the moment. So you
steal efficacy, you steal confidence. You also steal agency because they're not going out there and making mistakes and going, jeez, what what happened there? You know, what did I learn from that? What did I learn from what went well? What did I learn from what I was kind of hoping or I thought would go well but it didn't.
That's interesting. So I think guiding people through reflections and open curiosity and inquiry is far more effective than Okay, here's what I would do if I was in your situation. But you're not in their situation, and you are if you haven't noticed, not in fact them they even look different, they might have different hair color, they might be different height than you. All this, all this kind of weird shit shows up up when you pay attention to that stuff.
Yeah. Yeah, And also that old theory of mind chestnut. You know, we're in the same conversation but not the same experience, you know, and trying to understand, like right now, what is their version of what's going on at this table because it isn't my version. Yeah, you know, and
I want to circle back. Could you just unpack a little bit, because it's quite a distinction and it's not something I've thought about a lot, and I feel like I can learn just unpack sympathy versus empathy and just relate it to you know, a situation where someone.
Okay, so empathy is walking alongside of someone I am experiencing this with you.
Yeah.
Where sympathy is I feel for you, but not with you.
Yeah, right?
Where where if somebody says, okay, I broke I broke up with someone, or someone just broke up with me, yeah, and they're talking about, you know, how they feel, and it's like you reflect back. Wow, that that rejection. It's so isolating, you know, it's like you you gave your whole self to someone, you were so open, Yeah, and it feels like they threw that away. If it feels like you've been thrown away, Yeah, it's devastating. It's just you know, all you all you're experiencing right now is
your pain that is sitting in it with someone. Yeah, sympathy. I'm more focused about how this conversation is making me feel it's like, oh my god, I remember when I was broken up with It was the worst day of my life. I thought she was the one, and I'm just trying to manage the situation because my feelings are overwhelming. It's like, oh, Craig, you know you're a good looking guy. What are you talking about. It's like, she wasn't the first, She's not going to be the last, and you know,
I start solving your problem for you. That's I mean, it's fresh, it's raw. It might not be fresh maybe like this happened two months ago, but it really sucks still for this individual. They don't need your autobiography and
they don't need your solution for their life. It's kind of it's kind of offensive too, because you know, empathy speaks from the place of I am here with you in the pain and discomfort, where sympathy is like, you, poor bastard, you're either incapable or unwilling to change your situation. It's it's really it's a demeaning way of looking at so disguised as something altruistic. Sympathy kind of sucks.
Wow, okay, okay, you know, like with the whole yeah, all right, yeah, yeah, I think we spoke about this a week or two ago, that that video It's not.
About the nail. Do you remember that?
Yep?
You know where that?
Oh wait, that was that us? Because I talk about that all the time.
I don't know if well i've spoken about that.
I know exactly what you're talking about.
Yeah, so we won't ruin it for you, and we have spoken it probably once or twice. I've definitely spoken about a couple of times over the two thousand episodes. But yeah, if you want to go and see something which is hilarious but also insightful, it's a video on YouTube called It's Not about the Nail but it kind of so. So to that point, without giving the video away, do you think that's like trying to fix things for other people? What? What is that? Where does that come in?
Like?
Is that ever helpful? Is that? Is that something that we should never do?
Very rarely? I think if you're at the if somebody comes to the point where they acknowledge as well, it's evident not just to you but to them that they have reached the ends of their resources, right yeah, or the end of their knowledge, it might be appropriate to respectfully say, you know, Craig, I'm I think I'm hearing this. I think you're wanting this, and this is kind of a barrier. You know, do I have permission to like maybe share something with you or how would you feel?
Is it okay if I share something with you that is directive, but it might it may be helpful, Yeah, because I think that's a respectful way of saying no, it's not this hierarchal relationship where I possess something that you need and off. If only you thought like me, knew what I knew, saw the world the way I saw the world, did what I did, you'd be fixed. That's kind of that's a little bit fucked up.
First of all, that's pretty among other things.
If anybody does make a change, it's not sustainable. So who we're really doing that for? But if I come to you respectfully and I frame it like that, person might go now, you know, I don't know if I'm ready for that, or they might go, oh yeah, go ahead. And I always make it clear this might not really
be relevant to you. You know, this might not fit your situation or you know what it might It might be the exact thing you're looking for, but not right now, I don't hold any expectation that you're going to do anything with this. So what you're doing is saying I respect your autonomy.
Yeah, well, in a way, you think this is what we do every episode, Like we share thoughts and ideas and stories and experiences and insights.
Yeah, we don't have an expectation. Nor wouldn't we get offended if it's like I told a story about my auntie Sally. I'm making this up. I don't have an auntie Sally, and that's that's always bothered me. Actually, but my auntie Sally did something, and you know, like I think everybody should do that. And if a listener didn't go ahead and like, I don't know, get into real estate, I'd be somehow offended or slated or felt like, oh
what a waste of time this episode was? It's just that would be pathological, wasn't it.
Yeah? What about if we uh turn it around? Now? What about you? Like? How how how much do you want to open the door to other people about your own stuff? Or how often, if it all, do you seek advice or feedback or just a sounding board.
I see sounding boards quite a lot because I have a lot of voices in my head, not meaning they're not out loud and audible.
It's not yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.
Not a crisis. But we all have different versions of myself and of ourselves, and my versions talk quite a bit. So for me to sit down with somebody and talk through what I'm going through, it just helps me get clearer. And just expressing that and having somebody listen is enormously valuable. When I say to someone explicitly, what are your thoughts about this? I really want to know what their thoughts
are if I say hey. As a matter of fact, I feel like I've gotten a little bit cross with people in the past when I was like, all right, tell me where I could have done better in this situation or talk to me, and they didn't and they sugarcoat it. It's like, God, I'm either not worth the discomfort, right or I was imposing upon you. You're like, shit, Bobby's got an issue he wants to talk about now. I was just kind of hoping we'd go grab a beer or you know, or maybe you didn't think that
I would be able to handle it. But for whatever reason, that was important information and I didn't get it. Yeah, it's just as offensive as I didn't ask you how to fix my life and you emphatically laid out your blueprint for it. That's kind of not what I was asking for either. I think respect for the individual and understanding where they're at and being curious and open, but also kind of having a belief in that individual and you're talking to that they're were sourceful enough to figure
things out. And if you're curious and you ask a question that maybe they'd never asked themselves, or you freeze it in a way where it lands differently than the ten times they've asked themselves that same question, I think that's a much more productive conversation, you know, with friends.
I mean, yeah, yeah, I think it's like it's tricky because like just as a sounding board or whatever. Yeah, fine, if somebody goes here my thoughts, what do you think of this? From you know, I had this experience. What's your take on that? But that's different too. I want you to give me external objective, as objective as you can be, feedback about me, don't sugarcoat it, don't tell me what I want to hear. I feel like people want that until they get it, you know, And.
Oh, I think that's the case a lot of the time. Yeah, if you ask for it, be prepared for the answer.
Yeah, And I think, truthfully ninety nine percent and people will not provide that feedback because they're scared too for
a range of reasons. And I don't blame them, but you know, I think, like a lot of times when people say, oh, yeah, I love feedback, what they mean is I love praise, I love accolades, I love endorsement, I love acceptance, and yeah, tell me what, tell me what you think, Beau, as long as it's what I want to hear, I mean it's and I'm not I'm no different, like I reckon, you've given me feedback over the years, which was which was definitely on the money
that probably in the moment I didn't love and maybe vice versa. I'm not sure, but definitely like that's for me been. One of the challenges is to try and I guess ergo my PhD, but try and understand the Craig experience for everyone except Craig, you know, like what is it like, what does it really like being around me? What does what is this behavior or this kind of energy,
like what does that show up? For up like for everyone else, and that because you know, there's that that old chestnut, the false consensus of effect where we just think that how we think is how they think, and what we see is what they see, and our intention is their experience and all of that kind of you know, very egotistical kind of thinking about reality is that my reality is theirs. But then you kind of dig deep and you go, no, the only person in the world
who sees this exactly like me is me. The only person in the world remotely in my reality is me. You know, So being able to really humbly go all right, what is this like? Even just what does this look like for you?
I think where that comes from a little bit. And this is on the part of both parties, the person asking and the person giving feedback. There is a very big difference between a behavior, a pattern of behaviors, and an identity. So let's say it's like, look, how come we don't how can we don't hang out anymore? And I'm just making stuff up off? Yeah, do you really want to know? Yeah? Tell me. It's like, well, I don't have a lot of time, and you're important to me.
I enjoy hanging out with you, but you're constantly late, and it's become an issue if I say something like that. I did not say, because you are always inconsiderate right of people's time. You had been late a few times, right, Like, that's a fact. We were supposed to meet at seven. You consistently rock up at about you know, half past or beyond. I've tried to bring it up. You've gotten defensive.
You know, there's like emotions were running hot. I do not mean that you are irresponsible, and this is who you are as a human being. And that's why I think people get like, no, I'm not like, it's not an identity criticism. Like I would trust I would trust you to like, let's say, babies for me. You know, I would trust you like I would leave three hundred dollars on the counter walk away. Totally responsible, totally trustworthy. It's in this one specific area. So separate, separate the
behavior from the person. Avoid absolutes like you never listen to me. You always do this very rarely do people always or never do anything. I think that's important. Stick to what's observable and stick to the impact for you. So when this happens, here's what I here's how I feel, right, yeah, and here's kind of what I need in this relationship. And what I what i'd like to request is this. That's a much healthier type of conversation. I think is
that going to eliminate that now? Because some people, You're right, what they're looking for is tell me exactly what it is that I want to hear and we've talked about, or when somebody tries to tell you what your motivation was, I think that's that is a dangerous conversation to get into. And I think if somebody gets angry, they have every right to get angry because you're suggesting that you know something about and people do this all the time. Oh will you think that?
How do you know what?
I don't know what I'm thinking half the time? How do you know? Oh? Well you will you feel this? What? Don't tell me how I feel? And that's different ball the way, because this came up in a workshop than reflecting how someone's feeling. If someone buyings on the table saying I can't bull, I can't believe they you know, they cancel the project, It's like, Okay, you're you're frustrated because you're not telling someone how you're feeling how they're feeling.
You are reflecting an observation, you're actually empathizing. So those are two totally different things with different intentions.
Yeah, yeah, oh I could do this for a lot longer than forty minutes, but today forty minutes is our time. AH. Always appreciate you, buddy. How can people find you? Of course for self help. Antidote is your podcast. Where else can people catch up with you?
Find me on LinkedIn or at Robertcapuccio dot com.
Perfect. Thanks buddy, love your guts.
Thanks Greg,