Get a your bloody superstars, Welcome to another and Storming and the Youth Projector's HAPs I'm excited. I'm excited because I didn't have to do any prep. I didn't have to do any research. I didn't have to put on a party dress. I've got no fucking lippy or makeup because I've got a long time friend who I haven't seen for a long time. So I'm a shit friend. But I'm trying to rekindle the relationship with your help listeners. So hi, dd oh.
That's so hurtful. You know, I carry a picture of you in my wallet every day. I like you.
That's lovely what you just said, because you know, I do various interviews and media appearances and stuff, and I'm a frantic prepper. I like to be over prepped for everything. But today I was genuinely just feeling excitement, zero prep, just the thought of talking to you. I feel safe in your hands, So don't let me down.
Okay, and we'll do a podcast. Also, I mean, I think like you know me. I know you right, You're a little bit more You're a bit more organized, a bit more pedantic than me. But I don't think you're not particularly OCD, are you.
I mean that shounds No, I'm just so organizer.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So whereas I it depends who it is. Like if I'm talking to somebody that I mean, I've literally I've told you, We've done nearly two thousand of these. I've had some conversations with people. And about five minutes in, like, I had a conversation with this guy who's maybe the smartest person in the world. His
name is Professor Ahmi Goswami. Right, is this beautiful Indian academic, spiritual teacher, guru, Like he lives at the intersection of academia and research and wisdom and spirituality and the soul and the He's like, and I'm talking to him, and like, this is not even me fucking around being funny. Five or six minutes in, I'm thinking to myself, I'm literally too dumb to have a conversation with this person. I don't know, I don't know, I don't even know what
to fucking ask him. I like, And so I said, so I got about you know, I don't think I'm a complete dummy, but compared to him, I was a fucking yaka, Right, And I said to him, Hey, prof, I've got to admit something. And he goes, what you know, what's that, Craig? You know? And I said, I think I'm too stupid to have a conversation with you. And he was so sweet and so nice, and he said,
somebody who's stupid wouldn't say that. I'm like, well, maybe, but have you ever had a moment on an interview where you've gone, fuck, I'm out of my depth or I don't know where to go?
Well before I answer that, you've got a hell of a potty mouth on you, Craig Harp, But where did that come from? Didn't used to swear that proper lady like me back in the day.
What your answer to him? Your response to him?
And I'm not going to listen to your response about having a potty mouth because I see you having a sip of water and I know you're watching you.
You know you know you've turned it wrong. No, seriously, I swear like a wolfing.
I think your response to him was exactly what I would have done. And you've always got to remember that you're probably not the dumbest person in the room, but if you are, there's an opportunity to learn so don't don't think of it in and I'm not calling you vain, but don't think of it.
Oh everyone's going to think I'm done because I can't keep up with this guy.
You have to look at it as an opportunity to learn something, and you won't learn anything if you don't put your hand up and say, I actually didn't really understand your answer just then, or I'm not keeping up with you. Can you please tell me? And that's where you that's where you're going to learn something. And you can almost bet that eighty ninety percent probably more of the people listening are thinking, oh, I'm so glad he asked that because I wasn't following either.
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. It's like one of my kind of rules is hang out with people who drag you up, you know, like when I'm training, like the guy that I've been training with for the last fifteen years is better than me, stronger than me, you know, more gifted genetically than me. And I'm like, it's great because I'm never winning with him. Not that it's a comp, but it's kind of a comp. But I'm never winning right now. I'm always coming second. But what it does
is being with and whether or not. That's like I told you just before we went live. I'm doing my PhD at Monash and it's at this in this lab called brain Park. What a great name, hey, brain Park. So it's the Neuroscience Neuropsychology Laboratory. And when I started their dd oh my god. It's like going to a country where you don't speak one word of the language everyone else does and you're like, oh, by the way, I'm a hundred years old.
Fuck.
So yeah, I think that especially when you get older, right you and I are about the same age. When you get older and putting yourself in a situation where you've got to keep learning and keep developing, and.
I think, sorry, I've talked over you. I can't help myself and get over excited. I also think a lot of people we feel inadequate for some reason I don't know, and it could be to do with social media, that we're constantly comparing ourselves to what we see and hear of other people and wondering are we up to scratch?
Are we're going to be liked as much? And this morning, actually I had to put I don't need to share the deep details of what it was, but that it was two people I had to put in touch with each other, both of whom in their particular fields are absolute leaders and pillars and highly respected people. And when I said to one, hey, you know, you're okay to make a call to the other person, one of them sent me a thing saying, Oh, I'm having imposter syndrome.
I don't know that I'm up to the other person's level to speak to them.
And you know, it just it surprised me.
Because it was somebody who I respect and defer to their great knowledge of.
Their particular topics.
So I think that just tells us even the most successful people are probably thinking that they're not as good as the person next to them.
You know, it's just human nature, I.
Think one I totally agree. I think even more than that, maybe, like some of the most successful in inverted commas from the outside looking in, some of the most successful people that I've chatted with or mentored or coached or met or whatever more insecure than the average.
And it also comes back to what is success.
I was listening to a podcast the other day called Heavyweight, and it was a story about a guy who was friends.
With you know, Moby, and I don't know how to describe him.
Is he a rapper, a musician, Moby who was pretty successful in his eye right, And this guy knew him when he was young.
And this guy had a.
Set of CDs, told you how long ago it was of gospel music, you know, music that was recorded in the Deep South, and he gave those CDs to Moby, who then sampled music from it and made big hits from it. And this guy was like, I'm not asking of the credit, I just want my CDs back. Anyway, they tracked down Moby and he's still very friendly to
this guy. And part of this guy's issue was that he felt as though he was doing an ordinary job and that everyone in his life, including his childhood friend Moby,
had completely surpassed him. And so eventually tracked down Mobe and this guy sits with him and talks to him, and Moby says, the most lonely and the most flat he ever felt in his life was when he was in this extraordinary hotel room waiting to go out on stage at the Grammys and receive all the awards in the world, and everyone's fawning all our room, and your great mate and he went back to this hotel room and he said he just walked around. I think he
maybe said he cried. He was alone. He just felt so lonely. So my point being that everyone else watching and seeing him and knowing his name would think, wow, that guy's an incredible success, and yet he inside himself was just thinking what is this? You know, what what am I measuring? How my happiness is not great? What am I getting from this?
That is? Okay? So we're going to have a good chat, right, So I love this shit, right. I talk about what what is success a lot, and it's like, obviously success is different things for different people. But yeah, it's so true that you can be in a crowd and lonely, or you can be totally alone and not lonely. You know, I live by myself and people like, don't you get lonely?
And I go, I actually don't get lonely because when you know, within reason, whenever I want to talk to someone or have a coffee with someone, or you know, I'm always doing this. I'm talking to people every day, I'm having meetings. You know, there's a lot of interaction. But then also it's my personality that I'm kind of quite good on my own, but for a lot of other people, my life would be intolerable for them based
on how they work. And it's like, you think about your job for most of your life, being on air, listened to by hundreds of thousands of people over the years, millions and millions of people, and the MIC's on, and you're on air and be funny, be amusing, be entertaining, creating engagement, you know, like build rapport, and now you finished like you could perform under a level of pressure that most people couldn't deal with and you were in
your element. But for someone else, your job would have been a fucking nightmare.
Yeah. Well that comes back to the prep thing. I was made sure I was over prepped. But this again comes back to the thing of success, because if you just look at the data, by the measurement that we can look at of the figures, I was a success. I was number one in my time slot, and yet the management and for people who aren't familiar with me, I've worked in radio for close to forty years and was hosting an afternoon talk show on three OW, which is a.
Talkstation in Melbourne, and.
Doing well at it, Like It's taken me a long time to actually I'm very bad at singing my own praises, but I've had to learn how to do that to actually state as fat here's what I achieved. Anyway, I achieved number one status, which was great. Yeah, and yet management still turned to me and said that they weren't renewing my contract. So even though I had what probably appeared to be success, it wasn't enough to keep me in the job that I loved and lived for. So again, like,
what is success? How do you measure? Where is it you're going? It's like, this is a stupid example, but in Bridget Jones's diary, she's got this goal weight, you know, she diets and diets and diets and all the wrong things she does to get herself to a goal weight. And she wakes up the next morning where she's hit her goal weight and she's like, oh, everything's the same. I still don't have the man that I want, and like nothing's different. So how do we all know what we're aiming for?
I think there's this dichotomy between our external world. You know, what people see situation, circumstance, environment, brand, career, accolades, trophies, Grammys, money, you know, qualifications, podcast numbers, you know, all of that shit that everyone's aware of, and we somehow correlate all of those three dimensional, physical, visible things that the world
can pay attention to, we equate that with success. But as as you and I both know, you can be succeeding in inverted commas and miserable and lonely and disconnected
and medicated for anxiety and depression. Right, so, I think the dichotomy is like for me, especially the last six years with my research and beyond that just because I'm curious, but it's like what needs to be happening in my internal world for success, Like what's the you know, psycho logical, emotional, sociological, spiritual in a working of success, Like because you can be in what seems to be a successful life like from the outside looking in success, but the inside out
experience might be trauma or loneliness or sadness despite your nice house and your nice bank balance.
Well, it's something that I've had to really focus on because, like, losing that job really hit me hard, and so it forced me to first of all, just stop, take a breath, try and recover from the stress and that's a whole separate story that I've been interested to ask you about and dealing with stress, but then thinking.
And sorry to like go all hairy theory on you, but I think you're probably up for.
The conversation, but actually thinking what am I doing on this plan and what is my point of being here?
And what do I want from it?
And it honestly, it sounds it's like a cliche, but it comes back to all of those very basic things. The love of my husband, who I've been with for many many years, like his love and my love I think deepened because he supported me so much through that. The love of my children, the love of my family, that's probably my number one.
Thing in life. The realization that my friends are like this.
Giant blanket that's kind of in that next layer out beyond family, and that they are so important. It's like you may not speak to you, I haven't spoken to you for a long time, and yet I feel a friendship from you, like to know that you've got friends who love and support you. And then there's all the extra things. You start to think to yourself, you know, what can I do for pleasure each day? My pleasure
is going for a long walk every morning. And you know, I'll sound like a crazy hippie, but just to be amongst trees and to be walking along next to the river in the direction that the water is flowing, that somehow energizes me. I love to go out into my garden and plant things and grow them. I've got chickens. I love to watch them running around the garden like I derive so much pleasure from those simple things. I love to cook a beautiful meal for my husband when
he comes home and we enjoy that together. Those things that are so simple that anyone can have. Those are the things that nourish me and make me feel energized. And come back to that word again, I feel successful in my life because I am lucky enough to have all of those things in my life.
Yeah.
Yeah, Can I ask you a question?
Yeah? Sure.
So when I lost my job, it was quite well, look, it made headlines and it was a bit of a splash, and I literally retreated into a hole in my home. I didn't leave the house. I was humiliated and devastated because it was what I loved doing. And I would feel this stress that kept me awake for quite a few nights but well, you know, you wake in the
night and your stomach sinks again. You know you've forgotten that something bad has happened, and then your brain brain It's like when your footy team loses, you know, and you wake up the next morning, Oh yeah we lost.
So I was having that the whole time.
Oh please, I still love them, even though they break my heart all the time.
But I would get this waves of stress.
And you know that expression, you know you shit yourself, but there isn't There is a feeling and I don't mean I shap myself, but there's a feeling where it sort of washes over you and you feel it go right to your fingertips. And I remember thinking to myself, this can't be good for my physical body. This is not good for me to have. Whatever it is, it's rushing through me.
Like I don't know.
I've never been a drug taker, but I imagine when drug takers take a shot of something, it's that feeling.
It will literally, you know, it makes your stomach drop, It makes you.
Feel like you want to rush to the toilet, It makes your fingers tingle.
How do you get rid of that?
Craig, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So let me. Can I just come from a few angles and then if I don't tick the right box, let me know. And I'm glad you opened the woo woo door, because I think I've been kind of successful. You've been kind of successful. Depends on how you know, Like in my career, I've done pretty well, you've done pretty well. Go us. Does that mean you and I are going to be happy and never anxious? And that doesn't mean that at all? We could,
you know. So one doesn't always equal the other, you know. But that's how like you and I grew up in a collective culture and mindset that said, hey, Craig and d D. Success is about all that shit that everyone can see, right, and you tick the box and you get the right weight, and you make the right money, and you climb the right ladder and you drive the right car and you're mixing the right and all of
that and then you're s ccessful. And then as you know, your Bridget Jones what's her name, Bridge of Jones reference, it's like she woke up, she was in the dream body, and she was still probably lonely and disconnected and insecure and all of those things. So one doesn't equal the other. But I think what happens part of the So you're in radio, you're well known, you're flying, people love you, you're show's rating, it's ass off. You're good. You're really
fucking good at what you do. And that's not accolades, that's just data, Like we can literally prove statistically that you're good. Right, So that's not even that's not even an idea or a suggestion. That's just like, well, can we look at the can we look at the numbers? Can we look at the ratings? We sure can't. Okay, she's on top. Well, she's fucking good. So that's you know. But then one of the challenges for us is when you're really good at something, you have your sense of
self intertwined with that thing that you do. Yes, so it becomes part of your identity and you're you're in that I am it's an im statement. I am a broadcaster, I am a journalist, I am I am I am. And then somebody takes that away from you when you weren't expecting it to go, and then you don't know who the fuck you are because if I'm not that who I am? Who am I? So that can be part of it where who you are is intertwined with
what you do. And so one of the challenges from a my PhD is largely about self awareness, but it is trying to know who you are and understand who you are beyond what you do or what you look like, or where you live, or what you have or what people think you all the shit that you are not. Like you have a body, and you have a brand, and you have a brand, and you have a car, and you have a husband, and you have a track record. You have all these things, but you're not any of that.
We need to figure out where's DD beyond all of the shit that she's not. And this is a little bit you know, woo woo, you open the door, So I blame you. This is a little bit eckhart Toll, who says, I.
That's victim blaming.
Craighatha, I mean says, I'm the awareness of what I'm not right, and that's kind of I'm the observer, like that's that heightened, elevated version of me seeing the me that operates in the world. And so then back to your So there's that and you and I have seen that.
You know a lot of footballers now you and I know footballers who have gotten the ass mid career what we thought was mid Korea, and then capitulated emotionally, mentally, socially where some and of course we're not going to mention any names, but have gone from flying, making lots of dough, playing on the MCG, being very well known and doing well in that context, and then their life falls apart on some level because they weren't equipped or
skilled or prepared for anything beyond football. Right, So there's that there's a trying to figure out who we are. And I think that when you get the sack, or when there's a big life change, you kind of do get to that what the fuck actually matters? Like what is really you know? I've got this lady who was like my second mom. I grew up with her. I had obviously my mum, but this lady who's my mum's best friend, who was very much my second mom. And she passed away just before New Year, and I went
into hospital. She was a day or two away from the end, and I sat with her. Her name's Ray, and I sat with her and there was just me and her in the room, and she was holding my arm and I was holding her, and in that moment, I'm like, this is what matters, Like all my bullshit, all my hey, how many likes have I got? Who thinks I'm funny? Hey, I'm doing a PhD. Hey, but whatever, right, all the shit that I identify with, right, that's not
my reason for living. That's just stuff. They're just they're not bad, they're not bad, but they're ultimately kind of distraction. And in that moment, and I don't mean to be too weird, but she turned to me and she she's holding my hand, now she's she's dying, says to me, you know how much I love you? And that was it. And I'm the big alpha male. I'm fucked. I can't even speak. Yeah, And in that moment, You're like, oh,
you know what matters is love? Yeah, what matters is people, What matters is connection, What matters is compassion, What matters is having a purpose bigger than me. Yes, I can be a selfish fuck.
You know.
And then that so, yeah, I think it's And then the last bit I want to say then I'll shut up, is so when you say all this stuff.
Is happening, don't shut up on your own podcast. To be really shut up for you because just silence.
Yeah, that would be awkward. So how is the last thirty minutes?
Craig? Shut up? But that was it.
But when you said, I've never used drugs or you know which you haven't, I've never used drugs. I've never even had beer, Right, So you and I are pretty boring, but maybe wise, who knows. But the thing is that like when you have a thought, when you have a negative thought, there's a biochemical reaction in your body. When you have a positive thought, the same except you know, one's producing adrenaline and cortisol the negative one, and one's
producing dopamine, which is a feel good hormone. Right, So everything you eat a bit of food, there's a chemical reaction in your body. I give you a hug. Now, if you hate me, there's a chemical reaction that's bad. If you love me, there's one that's positive. So this whole idea of you know that, oh, there's your mind, and there's your emotions, and there's your body is actually a flawed paradigm because your emotions, your psychology, and your
physiology are one system and everything affects everything. So if you get sad, if I say to you, Hey, dd, I've got some bad news. And I tell you something and you process it in your brain. Right, that's cognitive, and then you understand it. Now you feel sad, Well,
that's brain and that's emotion. And then there's a physical consequence, you know, like your blood pressure goes up and your heart rate increases, and your sympathetic nervous system, which is fight or flight, switches on and all these things that oh, now I'm sad, or now I'm anxious or And the genesis of that was me telling you a thing. So all interacts all the time, and so the challenge in managing our body is really how do I manage my thoughts?
Well, I was concerned when I was going through that stress as to the physical effects that it was having on my body, because I did learn something from you all those years ago when you.
Used to train me.
You know, you do need to look after your physical body because everything comes from what you're able to do each day and what you're able to get to. But yeah, there were some weird consequences. I actually cracked a tooth, which I have no awareness of doing, but the dentist said that I was probably like biting my jaw down so hard in my sleep.
You know. It's things like that, and that just made me annoyed.
I thought I didn't even know I was doing that, and I was annoyed that I had been put in a.
Situation where I was so stressed that that had happened. I had this weird pain.
I actually thought I must have had a pendicitist or something, but it turned out it was just.
What is it the babies get, like a.
Colic or something, which was a result of just whatever those stress hormones that were going through my body, and I was angry that they were there. I was thinking, get out of my body. I'm doing everything I can to try and let this stress go. Let the whole thing, the whole radio, everything that was that go. And I think I'm past it now, but yeah, it was like I just couldn't get it out of my life fast.
Can I tell you how I kind of how I came from that, because I really was on my knees And there are moments now where something will happen or something will say something, and I come undone again and I'll.
Disolve in tears very easily.
One was a guy who wanted to interview me on a It was a podcast about radio people in radio, and I really just did not want to talk about radio because it had hurt me so badly, and he was such a nice guy, and I felt sorry. I kept saying, putting him off, putting him off, and in the end I said, okay then, and I had to because I forget what I've done and I'm terrible with dates and all that stuff, but I have kept everything in scrapbooks.
So I got out my scrap books of my.
Whole radio career and was just sort of flicking through to remind myself, Oh yeah, I interviewed that person and I remember, you know.
That show and stuff like that. And as I was going through it, I thought, I mean, I did quite a bit of stuff. I actually a bit of stuff.
But the realization that helped me was that no one can take that away.
My record stands.
So that was part of divorcing myself from what you mentioned a moment ago. My identity was as that radio person, and I thought, well, no one can take away what my achievements were. And I then also reminded myself, I know I've always done right by the people I've worked with, and all of my friendships with colleagues. I can't think of a single colleague that I don't still have a friendship with or that we don't have a good relationship still.
So I've still got all the friendships and the relationships with people I worked with. And I started to see things from a different perspective.
Instead of thinking, oh.
God, I've lost all of that, I started to think, well, hang on, let's see all the things that I have got left. So there was my record, there was the professional relationships. I consider myself very lucky that even though it's radio, most people don't know what you look like. But you know, occasionally I'll go up to the supermarket and someone will tap me on the shoulder and say, oh I really miss your show or.
I enjoyed your show. It's just a little moment.
But those things lift me and I absorb them and I'll take that and that they helped to heal the hurt that was done.
But probably the biggest thing for me, and just stop me if I'm talking too much, it's your podcast.
Keep on.
Well.
The thing that really helped me was having a new purpose. And if you'll forgive me mentioning a podcast that I've been working on on my show. I used to have a guy, a former homicide detective by the name of Charlie Bazino, was a regular on my show and he would come on and talk.
About crime once a week and just a great guy.
And one time he came on, he brought a guy called Daryl Floyd on to be interviewed, and Darryl back in nineteen seventy five, his brother went missing. His brother was only twelve and Daryl was ten at the time, and Darrel has spent his entire life looking for his brother, trying to find his body.
He's pretty sure he knows where it is. It's in a gold mine.
In Mirovoka, and he's digging in that gold mine and has been for many years trying to find his brother's remains. And the person who he believes is responsible for his brother going missing is still alive. So Charlie came to me and I interviewed Daryl on my show and I was just sort of really moved by his story. But after my job ended, I notice how I still have trouble saying I was sacked. But that's just how that
helps me get through it. Charlie said to me, have a look at this case again and see what you think. And so I did, and the more and more I read about it, I thought, this is a massive, massive by police and there's a lot of injustice in this story. And I also think that this story can be solved, and that's something Charlie has sat one hundred percent.
So I then focused.
On investigating researching the story, and the last probably eighteen months to two years have been creating this podcast if you want to listen, it's called The Boy and the gold Mine. And knowing that and I'm not making any money from it, it's all been a labor of love from my perspective, but I have found it so satisfying that I'm doing something good to help this person who has been so poorly treated by the authorities and by
life itself. It's given me purpose, It's given me something to do, something to create that I can be satisfied I've done my best. I'm really proud of what I've created, and that has probably been the biggest thing, apart from family and the love of those around me, in helping me get back on my feet again.
And I have to say, quite honestly, right now, I feel quite content with my life, which is a long way from where I was.
If you spoke to me two years ago, I literally couldn't speak. I couldn't speak. No, I couldn't talk for two or three days. I couldn't speak.
How answer as much or as little as you want, but what you know, how did you process that emotionally and mentally over the first two or three months? Did you when you finally could talk, did you talk about it? Did you do therapy? Did you punch the walls? Did you what? Did scream into a pillow? How did you start to decompress and deal with that? If you did, Yeah, no, I did.
And it took me probably a couple of weeks before I gathered myself enough to say I need help. I need someone to help me process this like i've you know, I'm making it sound like I was under the dinner.
I was, And I was getting up every.
Day and going about my life, and I kept doing the things that I knew would just give me maximum health. At the time, I was trying to make sure that I was sleeping. I don't like taking sleeping tablets, but I was using sleeping tablets at that time just to make sure that I was getting sleep, because I strongly believe that getting a good night's sleep is really important to setting you up to deal with.
The day that comes. I was eating as healthily as I could.
I was making sure that I was getting outside in nature and walking each day to try and walk away the stress. So I did all those physical things. But there was a point after a couple of weeks where I realized I wasn't being cured, and so I spoke to a counselor, and I think I may have had three or four sessions in the end, and the woman who was my counselor, I actually specifically chose someone who wasn't in Victoria, which is where I was going to air.
She was in another states, which meant that she had no clue of who I was, or what my job was, or what my media profile was at the time, because I wanted to just be a lady who was a bit damaged at that point, and she was actually and I'm not really a very spiritual person, but in some ways I am. Maybe I'm not religious, but maybe I am a little bit spiritual.
But she was quite spiritual. But we really connected.
I just lucked out that she was very gentle, and she gave me a few little droplets that helped me to process what I was going through. One of the things was that I felt quite betrayed by someone in management who, you know, on the very day that they let me go, was being my buddy in the corridor. And then that night bang and I just remember I said to her, I thought he was my friend.
She said to me, he was never your friend, you.
Know, So it was just a a few things she said like that that kind of gave me the tools to unpack what it was that was bothering me so much.
And I mean other things I did.
I just said to stop listening to radio full stop, which is why I love podcasts like yours, because podcasts are everything.
Instead of radio. But yeah, I.
Would highly recommend to anyone to speak to a professional if you're struggling. It's not a weak thing to do. It's not a hairy, fairy, strange thing to do. It's actually one of the best things you can do to speak to another person who can empathize and sympathize and give you some suggestions on how you can work your way through whatever it is your trauma.
Is that you can get through it.
I love that, Thanks for sharing that. It's funny when you say that how your therapist said he was never your friend. I'm how do I say this like there's no self pity in this or like my life's great. I'm very blessed and lucky. But I've had a lot of people over the years who I like my bestie until I'm no use to them anymore, you know what I mean. It's like, oh, it's their role playing friendship. But then all of a sudden the thing that I was, the doors that I was opening, the help, the assistance.
When I can't do that or they've got everything, then they kind of vanish. I've also got beautiful, amazing people, right, But like I have a litmus test for friendship, and it's like this is my test. One do they say nice things behind my back? Like when I'm not around, are they you know? Two? Is my life better with the minute? Now? Like? Is my life better because dds
in my life? Like that's a you know, if I'm not around and DD is talking about I don't know, but I would I'm pretty sure you might be saying positive things. And then the other thing is would they still want me to be in their lif I feef f I'm no value to them, like no strategic value, do you know what I mean. I don't mean that I'm not supportive of but it's like, you know, like I think a lot of what people call friendships are
almost like a strategic alliance. Yeah, okay, where either one side or both sides there's some there's some benefit other than other than just the normal you know, emotional, psychological or sociological benefits of friendship. But I mean more like a more like a career kind of leverage or financial,
you know, incentive or something like that. So I also think if you've got five people in the world, no three other than your family, but three people in the world who are like your ride or die, you could ring that person anytime, anytime and just go I need you to come over, and they're like, I'm on my way. That's it. I'm on my way. Yeah, not like after these it's just like, yep, I'm coming. I'll see in ten minutes.
Yeah, that's that's.
I absolutely one hundred percent agree with you on that. And I've got a best best friend. But then I've got this circle of friends and I was actually one of them, had a birthday just recently, and I was in this room of all these incredible women, and I just thought, I know that any one of these women I could call if I was having a problem of some sort and that they would jump and offered help. And I do think women do it very well. I think men are getting so much better at it.
You know. I look at my husband, and he's.
Great, and we talk about everything, and we support each other and share what we're thinking and feeling.
But I also know that he plays golf once a week with this group of guys, and you know, they're a pack of wrap bags, but I love them. They're lovable rogues. But what they do is they talk, you know.
And I think for guys golf or playing some sort of sport, or having some sort of a place where you can get together with your.
Bros and talk about stuff.
I think it's kind of considered to be a female thing that we sit in gossip, But I think men are just as willing to do that, to chat over things with their pals. And I've personally seen with my husband and with some of his mates, how these guys have been able to help each other through. And I can tell sometimes when Kira, and my husband comes home, you know, and he's having a few tests and things
done on his heart at the moment. And he came home and he said, oh, I can't think which of the guys it was.
One of the bros.
Oh, he also had the same thing. And I thought, well, that's just in the back of my mind thought, well, that's good. He's obviously talking to the guys about what he's dealing with at the moment. These tests is having done. He's obviously worried. He's run it past the guys. One of the guys has sivia. I had that too. Here's how it worked out for me. So I think that having that friendship circle like you just said, and I'll
go for more than three. I like having tons. The more you can get, the merrier, But the more people that you can kind of share the load with, spread the load, because to me, that's what friendship feels like. And I don't like to sound like I'm like a heavy weight hanging off all my friends next, but I think they know that they could do the same with me.
You know, That's what a friendship is when there's that balance doesn't always have to be sometimes, you know, in your own friendships that perhaps you're giving a little.
Bit more than the other person is.
And that's when, like you said, you start to think, oh, is this person making my life better? Sometimes the balance is out, But proper good friends, I think I kind of keep that little ledger in their mind. And if you've got that with anyone, that's worth gold.
Yeah, it's so interesting, Like this is a weird lap, right, but like the way that depending on who you listen to, whether or not you listen to the creation people or the evolution people, but you know, sociologists and the like suggests that we've been An anthropologist suggests that we've been around as a modern kind of species for three hundred
thousand years. And you think about for most of that evolutionary timeline, we haven't lived like we live now, Like we haven't like look at you, You and I are in different places having a real time conversation, you know, Like we didn't live in high rises, and we didn't have cars and planes, and we didn't have electricity, and we didn't have fridges. Like ninety nine point nine to nine percent of people who have ever lived didn't have all the amazing shit that we've got and they lived
in They lived basically in tribes. And there was a sociologist. His name is Dunbar I forget his first name, but anyway,
he built this. He created this theory around this idea of what is the ideal number of people to have in your community, because people used to live in communities, and the ideal number was about one hundred and fifty, where you know about one hundred and fifty people, and you get on with about one hundred and fifty people, and you know, and there's people within that community who all are good at different things and will serve each
other in different ways. And now it's just like the world is so you know, vast, and access to so many people is so easy, and it's almost like sometimes
it can be overwhelmed. And I think when you turn down the volume on all the noise and you just go and hang out with your friends and turn everything off and just plug into another human or group of humans and get away from the mayhem of you know, whatever social media or whatever external noise, it's like, oh, yeah, this is this is what humans are meant to do. When men can be together, the.
Interaction, you know, And I have to say, if I do miss anything, really enough, mostly gotten over.
Not doing radio anymore, but I missed that interaction.
I've mostly gotten over getting the sack. Come on, say it I gotten over.
Well, technically they just didn't renew my contract. Is that sacking? I suppose it is. But also the interactions we're having with people.
And I absolutely agree with what you're saying that human interaction is everything. But these days, so much of the interaction is a click.
On a keyboard.
You know, it's not and that's not real, and people think it's real, and it's not so to me sometimes without sounding silly, you know, just popping up to the supermarket and bumping into someone that I know, or one of the mums that used to go to the kids went to school with my kids. Hang on, that sentence didn't come out right. Their kids went to school with my kids. You know, just those human interactions, they're so important and it's something. So my parents are both still alive.
Dad's eighty eight, mum's eighty six. Mum's got dementia. Dad's doing Dad's still got all his faculties and he's looking after her. But what it means is he can't have a conversation with her because she can't keep.
A thought in her head.
She's still fine, she still potters around the house and stuff, but he can't have a.
Conversation with her.
So I have to make an effort to make sure that I talk to him so that he's got someone to just discuss everyday life things with because he doesn't have that. He's effectively isolated, even though he's living in a home with the woman that he's loved his entire life.
Because of that reason, you need to have interaction with people.
And yeah, this is the reason people go to the foot, isn't it so that you can cheer when there's a goal with all these tens of thousands of people you don't know. Human beings want to be together with their tribe, together with people who they know, they think and feel and empathize with.
We need that. That's that's why, that's part of why we're here on this earth.
We need that kinship of being with people who are like ours.
I totally agree, I'm boring.
Is this is this?
No? No, this is what this is. This is what we do on the year project. Do you know what I think I was going to say this to you? Off air listeners listeners. I'm opening the door. I was going to have this conversation with DD when we're done, but I'm going to have it now because I want to include you. This could be wildly inappropriate. I think you, like,
it is so easy to do a podcast now. Right now, I know that you're doing The Boy in the gold Mine, which is a love project, and it's beautiful and it's amazing. And by the way, everybody, I'm full disclosed, I haven't listened to it, but I'm going to start to listen to it because I only just became aware of it. So I'm recommending you have a listener as well. But like I'm sitting in my office now, I am to view people every day all over the world, all kinds
of people. We have meaningful dialogues like this, and it's so easy to you know, if you've got a decent a decent computer and a decent mic and a quiet room, you can do what I'm doing right now, and you're doing right now, and even like I'm listening to your audio and you're talking on your phone and the quality of the audio is amazing. Right, you need your own podcast, like one hour a day, Like I really think that
you could. And just like with the You Project, we I've told this story many times for the first six hundred episodes. Six hundred by the way, I made fucking no dollars zero, and I loved it because I was it wouldn't it would take you nowhere near that, of course, but just building, you know, where you get to the point where, oh, I know how to do this now I understand the process and the science and the tech
and the you know, the whole you know. I just think that it would be great for you to have your own and whether or not it was once a week or you know, three days a week or seven days a week, or you record a bunch of shows on one day and then take the I just think with your skills and your communication, and also, if I'm being honest, I think of all the fucking people you know. I mean, you could do a year of programs just off the people that you personally know.
Do you know what?
And like one of the things that as I'm sitting listening to you and you you don't know how this show works, right, So I'm telling you in real time probably shouldn't involve the listeners, but fuck it, everyone just lean in.
Oh gee, that makes them feel special. Fucked a lot of you.
Craig is just going to go broke and see whatever he wants his show.
Yeah, that's it. Have you ever said have you ever said fuck on a podcast or any broadcast?
Oh yes I have.
Yeah, no I'm terrible and yeah I've done some very inappropriate things.
But don't tell anyone.
But it's like, I have regulars on the show, so we have people that so we have all our unique guests that come like this is your first time. But I also have a bunch of people who are really good at what they do when they come on once a month or once a fortnight or once every two months. So I have a guy that comes on every fortnight
and we loosely talk about technology. And there's a guy called David Gillespie who's a maybe Australia's biggest selling author, who wrote A Sweet Poison and a myriad of other great books. He's a lawyer by qualification. He comes on once every two weeks. He's brilliant. But yeah, I just I don't know. I don't know if you miss being on mic and talking to people, But if anyone's ready to just step into this space and kill it quite quickly. And I know that's not what you're about, but you
could definitely do something from home. You don't have to go anywhere. It'd be I can organize someone to help you sort the tech and the production quite easily for fuck all, you know. So anyway, that's my thoughts. Have you thought about doing your own thing.
I've never been very comfortable with the spotlight being on me, which I know it wouldn't be because I'd be speaking to different people.
And firstly, I'm genuinely flattened by what you're saying. It kind of if I'm really being honest, it's like a little stab in my heart thinking what you're describing is me being doing what I was doing, being on radio, talking to people, understanding, listening to.
Them, learning, giving my thoughts. That's what I was doing.
And and you know, apologies to anyone if this sounds vulgar, but I was good at what I did.
I was good at it, and thank you for about being though.
But you still are like you're and I know you're not doing that right now, but it's like me gone, I was a good trainer now I'm still a really fucking good trainer, and I don't.
Say something we're a good trainer, except you were mean sometimes to me.
That's what made me a good trainer because you No, that may go because you were soft, bro. No, you're welcome. No, no, no.
I did have very good abs.
In fact, when I got do you remember I stopped coming to you because I got pregnant?
In fact, I think I trained with you through my first pregnancy. But I can remember them in the.
Birthing suite disapproving of my abs because they were too tight. They said you it was it was me And I actually tore right down the middle of my abs because it was too tight from.
All the work you maybe do. How did we get around to that?
So so what you're blaming me is your painful pregnancy.
Was my fault. Yes, we got there.
No, I'm listening to what you're saying, and maybe one day.
I'm not quite there yet.
So I've been really comfortable making the podcast that I've been making because it's about someone.
It's a story, it's.
It's a quest for me, it's a desire to see justice, to see an outcome.
So that's why I've been okay doing that.
And once it's done, or it reaches its natural conclusion. I will think about it because I miss talking to people, or no, I've always missed people talking to me. People always with radio would say to me my most recent radio show was three hours, and people would say, how do you get talk for three hours?
And I would say, it's actually, that's not the hard part. The hard part.
Is that you've got to listen for three hours and don't just be thinking about what you're going to say.
You've got to listen to what people are saying to.
You so you can respond a learn from them and have a proper conversation and keep the doors open. Let people talk to you that don't agree with you, because that's where the growth comes from.
So Craig, one day, maybe I will.
I do have a recording desk I've got I don't have a mic, but yeah, I have the means to do it. I just at the moment, I haven't got the will to do it because I'm still even though it's two years, i still.
Feel like I.
Was effectively told by a bunch of faceless men in another capital city that I wasn't good enough, And.
Even though in my heart I know they were wrong.
I'm still stung by that. There's probably a little part of that is still in me thinking you're not good enough, and I need to get over that. I need to make the podcasts that I've done enough of a success and it has been going well.
And.
That will help me reach the point that you're encouraging me to step toward.
Yeah, yeah, maybe I just think you And this is not me trying to make you feel good, like I've I've worked with you on radio little tiny bit at gold FM, Yeah, very very you know, I'd stick my face in every now and then and we chat. But you know, you're not You're not pretty good at it. You're like literally the best you know and that skill and that knowledge doesn't go away, like and you don't need, you don't need the approval of people you don't know.
And this is such a human thing, is that one hundred people go you're great, and one funck with goes you're not. And we give all our power to the one fuck with, you know, And so like when I I I've spoken about you to many people over the time, over my time and gone like you and Grubby and your heyday, you by yourself just fucking amazing and outstanding
and that that doesn't go away. It's not like footy where you've got to use by date, you know, although some people who are the decision makers might think that. But yeah, anyway, I just said to everyone, I'm a free trying to be not but it is it. I want to go punch them in the face for you, but that probably won't. Can I just ask one thing pursuant to that, pursuant to that you're on it, not the face punching. Did you ever get did you ever
get a did you ever get a rationale? It's like, yeah, well you're number one and you're killing it, but we're getting like, was there any you know, shudo explanation?
Well, because the brave men who made the decision didn't have the bravery to actually tell me to my face, and like I said, they were in another city, I.
Did make a call.
And because you know, I think human beings we want, we need to process stuff, we need to understand. And I think that's why there is such an appetite for true crime at the moment, whether it's TV shows or podcasts or whatever.
People are problem solvers. We need to go oh, why did that happen?
We need to sort it out so that I think, I think it's almost like it's a big dress rehearsal. We're in our heads going, oh, if that happened to me, how would I deal with it?
And so I needed to know why it had.
Happened so that I could process it and move on, you know. If they were going I think I think probably what I wanted to hear was something along the lines of, oh, well, we've done some private research.
And you've come up really badly.
You know, it turns out that women between forty and fifty don't like listening to you. Or I wanted something and all that I had to ring them, and one of them.
In particular, the best that he could give me was.
We were all we were looking, you know, two years down the track and thinking, oh, you're part of our plans. Probably not so, I mean, that's not an explanation. No, I've never had an explanation, No one ever has. And I don't feel in clid to speak to them ever again. I'd love to, maybe one day down the track, speak to them and just ask one of them what.
I think.
One of the things crag that I and this was early and this was back with.
The counselor that I spoke to. That I became clear on was I didn't do anything wrong.
I didn't do anything wrong, and it can't have been based on there was never And I think that was probably something that was in the.
Back of my mind.
I thought, oh gosh, because it was quite a shock to people, and it was a shock to me, and it was a shock to the audience, and I thought, oh, I hope people don't think that.
You know, there was some mysterious behind the scenes.
You know, I'd been caught drink diving and they didn't like I don't drink for the record, you know that there was some terrible scandal and they'd had to swush me out of the building.
There never was.
There was literally nothing like I am such a goodiejoo shoes, I was such a hard worker, and.
I've lost my train of thought.
But I never had an explanation as to why it happened. But I was able to realize it was nothing that I did nothing, Yeah, it was it was just it looks can I put on my.
Coach's hat and my friend and you might not like what I'm going to say?
Oh no, don't make me cry, Yeah, God.
They're not they're not thinking about you. You're taking too much about them, Like, fuck them, Like you're still hour like this, all this rumination and all this emotion and all this energy that you're investing in them. I understand it, but it's so fucking bad for you, all right, And you don't need to have a conversation with them. Fuck them. You need to find a way to put that in a big kind of treasure chest, walk it to the edge of an emotional cliff and throw that shit over.
Easier said than done. And I know I sound like a fucking idiot, but yeah.
Like unnecessarily angry Craig, You've got to calm that down.
It makes me sad to see that you're so bothered by these people that whatever for whatever reason, you know, they don't know whatever, And it's but.
At the same time, it's their business. It's their radio station. They're allowed to have working there who they want. They wanted to change the lineup, that's that's fine. If they wanted to do that, if they want to have someone different in there, that's their choice, and they can bear the consequences of whether they've made the right choice or not.
For the record, No they didn't.
But did the ratings go down when you left?
Oh? They went down, Craig, and they're continuing to go down. But I won't dance on anyone's great. That would be unkind. Now, look, ironically.
Bring that up at all, ironically, Three, I w suffering your jobs.
Don't be mean. No, Look ironically my in my shift.
And I don't know if this was the original plan or not, but the person who replaced me is actually a good friend of mine and a lovely guy. And he was very sweet and he ranged me and he and I fine, And it's you know, I bear no ill will at all toward him, toward him because he's doing the job he's been asked to do. He didn't make the decision. He's just been offered a position that you know I would grab with both hands. Not now
he grabbed it with both hands. But yeah, that's a that's a weird already, isn't it.
But yeah, no, look I'm letting it go. Well it has, it has. And the other point I will make is that time.
I know it's a cliche, but time really does heal because peace by piece different.
People, you know, it's been valuable for me talking to you.
Every time I have a conversation like this, I take away, you know, a droplet or two of something that helps me process what I went through. And that again comes back to and this is something for everyone, the interaction. You know, every time you talk to someone or chat to a friend or ask someone how did they deal with something, you pick up something that helps you to deal with what you're going through in your life. So thank you for having me on today to work through stuff.
Yeah, I'm not trying to make you feel good when I say you're great at what you do.
Now, No, I do ially love to be Craig as to come on, I've tell you.
But that's sorry. Here deal with be right. Champ and I am both too old to do anything about it now.
So I don't know how that happened. Look at us, We had.
Our moment, didn't we once in the hallway when we crossed? All right, tell people once again the name of it that I'm fucking with you. Tell people the name of the show, and yes, and where they can follow you on socials and all that kind of stuff if you want.
Okay, well, I've got my own socials, which is just at DD only the audience and Facebook, but the podcast, which I would love people to check out if you are interested in true crime.
It's a really heart wrenching story. It's called The.
Boy in the gold Mine and you'll find it on Insta at the Boy in the gold Mine. And also there's a Facebook page as well which has got lots of behind the scenes photographs and stuff of evidence and things that are part of the story. So thank you for allowing me to give that a mention because it's it's absolutely my passion at the moment.
Well, I'm sure it's brilliant and we are. Yeah, jump on the face, Jump on our Facebook page when we have a new project Facebook page which we've got quite a lot of people on. If you have a listen to do D's potty, jump on there and give us a little bit of feedback. I'd love because I'm going to have a listen.
Please be kind, clearly I'm vulnerable still no no.
No, no, no, no, Well, you know it'll be honest. I'm sure it'll be positive. I'm going to have a listen over the weekend because I'm driving to see Ron and Mary, which is four hours in the car, so I'll consume a bit of it. Then we're going to say goodbye if Air you and I. But I love your guts and I'm so glad that you're in a better place. Albeit I think you and I still have some workshopping to do, and you enjoy the rest of your Thursday.
Craig, and thank you. I'm so delighted for your success. You've always been such a positive presence in my life.
Albeit we haven't been that close over the last few years, but I have such fond memories of training you with you plenty of life.
You're a good guy. You're one of the good ones. You're a pure heart. So thank you for having me on.
Thanks lovely,