Oh good a you bloody champions. It's Kelly, it's Craig, it's us. We're back. It's you know what was going to happen everyone? Kelly and I were going to record three five question podcasts in a row last night. So it's Wednesday night, the twenty eighth of the fifth, twenty twenty five as we record this, but I have this ongoing ear ear issue which sounds so bloody ridiculous, Kelly, doesn't it so so nothing so marculous it is it is, And it's like it's not painful, it's not. But what
happens everyone is, and it's happening right now. Is my left no, my right ear what it varies, but at the moment it's my right ear totally blocks and so it makes concentration and communication and focus very hard. And so we recorded too, and we're about to record the third. In fact, we started the third and Fatty Harps's ear blocked. It's like somebody just walks up and puts their finger right in your ear, and so everything I say comes back into my head and there's like this weird pressure
in my ear right now. But I realized to the world, they don't hear any of that, they don't sense any of that. So I'm going to sold John Kell. I'm going to see how I go. We might have a little break or two, but right now it's like somebody's put a block of cheese in my right ear and my voice in my head is very fucking loud. But we'll do our very best. And we were chatting just before we came on. You had a bit of a listen today, so the first episode went up today. Is it hard listening to yourself?
It's interesting listening to yourself. And I think there's always that thing your voice sounds different, and you're obviously experiencing that right now in your own head, but your voice sounds different when you hear it back. I did think it was different hearing your responses in a different context of just being the listener, not the interviewer. And I'm still determined to learn how to serve. That would be pretty cool. And yeah, no, I got a lot out of it, so I hope other people did as well.
Yeah no, you asked some really good questions. And we were talking before and I said one of the things that I find like, I get it, but for me, who's the subject of that curious is how many people want to know, Like a lot of people don't. Of course, if I was a listener, I would not want to know. I wouldn't give a fuck about what Craig Carpet eats or how he lives, or why he's married or not married, or you know, like, but so many people care about what I do and why I do it and when
did you start that? And how long you've been doing that? And why don't you eat lunch? And you know, how far do you walk every day? And how often do you lift weights? And do you do machine weights as well? Or would you do anything like pilates or body weight circuits or you know, like so many people are interested in, like how I live my life on a personal operational level.
And for me, that's very amusing because I feel like I'm one of the most boring fucking people in the Bayside area of Melbourne right And I'm not fishing, Like my life is so boring, Like I live by myself. I don't drink, I don't smoke. I walk to the cafe every day, I have a coffee, eat the same breakfast every day. I eat a version of the same dinner every day. I don't eat through the day. If I'm hungry, I have maybe a few almonds or something like that. You know, I lift weights. You know, it's
like it's very it's kind of groundhog day. I mean, there are different things because I do work with different teams and groups and individuals and organizations, and I travel a bit. But I talk about a lot of the same stuff. But I think what keeps me sane is the fact that I do something that I truly love
and it doesn't feel like work. You know. It's like apart from this annoying ear I've got right now, like I'm talking to you, somebody that I like, somebody that I have a good connection with, and we're talking about things that are of interest to me and hopefully you and hopefully the listeners. And there's no sense at the moment, or there's no feeling of oh my god, I'm working. You know, I'm working. I've got to do this because you know, this is what I do. I'm a podcaster.
Oh fuck, I better do another. You know. There's none of that. There's none of that. There's just like the experience and.
That's the dream. Right Like I work at a place that I really enjoy working at. And you know, there's days when there's things that you have to do. Sure, but I've got a really great team and I get to work with some really great people. So I work with adults with disability, and I think that's an absolute
honor to be able to do that. So I love my job so I can relate to that, and I think, I think that's the absolute dream, isn't it to have something in your life that you I mean, technically it's called work, but it doesn't feel like it for the majority of the time.
And I think that's the thing, like if you can, I mean, and look, it sounds judgmental because there are a lot of people who don't necessarily love what they do, but they don't necessarily hate it, but it ticks the boxes that they want to tick. It's like, well, it's pretty good money. I don't hate it. It's close to home or I'm working from home. I've got the skills, I know how to do. It doesn't cause me a lot of stress and anxiety. I get four weeks or
six weeks, annual holiday or whatever it is. I get you know, sick pay, I get this, I get that and for many people that's a beautiful operating system or that's a beautiful, beautiful model of career or work for them. And we as we've spoken about many times, you know, it's like what works for Kelly won't work for Craig, or what works for Craig won't work for Brian or
Dave or Sally. Right, So it's trying to figure out, you know, while for some people to do my job where there's very little security, where I don't have a set wage, I don't have I don't have you know, holiday pay, I don't have sick pay. I don't have a lot of things, a lot of the benefits that come with a good job. But what I do have is I have a life that doesn't really feel like I ever work, you know, I mean, which sounds weird, but like there are some things that are you know,
more challenging and difficult than other things. But yeah, I guess because I don't have any what's the word set protocol where I've got to be at a certain place every time each day and then go and sit in that room and then do these things, or I've got to be I've got to jump in that truck every morning and then deliver those things or whatever it is. You know, none of those things are bad. In fact,
for many people, they're great. But I think that's one of the things is trying to figure out and we spoke about I don't know it's episode one or two, but trying to figure out what not what's optimal, but what's optimal for you, you know, And we talk about you know, food and exercise and sleep and managing stress and anxiety and the kind of relationship that works for you and all those things. And then you figure out how many hours you know, the average adult works over
their life time. You know, they're working life between whatever, eighteen and sixty sixty five seventy, Like, that's a lot of waking hours to be miserable if you hate what you.
Do absolutely And maybe that's why people are so interested in, you know, how many steps you take and what you have for breakfast and why you don't have lunch or what you have for dinner, because you are in a position of having something in your life that is work but not work.
And I think likeascinated with the idea of everyone every listener, you Kelly Me, you know, Tiff and Melissa who work with us. I'm really interested in people finding out what's the best operating system for me. Yeah, you know, what's the best way to eat for me, what's the best way to live for me. What's the best way to work for me. What's the best way for me to manage my relationship with money? What's the best way for
me to do relationships? Like I was talking to a dude the other day and he and his girl have been together. Lady been together for about ten years, and they like I see them sometimes separately, as in I bump into them, and you can tell they are in love as fuck right, they love each other, and he talks highly of her. He's fucking in love head over heels. She's in love with him head over heels. It's beautiful.
But the funny thing is they don't live together, and they might stay at each other's house once or twice a week, but they have their own. Now, I'm not suggesting everyone should do this, but it's like they're well and truly locked in. It's not like, oh, they're kind of just seeing if it works out. No, they're absolutely a couple. And I said to I've asked both of them individually, like how did like, was this a conscious thing? Like did you? And they're like, you know what, it
just it just works way better. Like we are head over heels in love. We don't want anyone else, We only want each other. But she said to me the other day or the other week, I actually get excited to see him when I haven't seen him for a day or two. Right, I get excited. He gets excited. We have date nights. It's fun. They've had like one blue in ten years. And I'm like, that is so atypical. But and again it's not a suggestion or a recommendation. But you think, wow, that's not something a lot of
people would even think about. But when you also think about the fact that some people not all you know, five ten years in it's like groundhog Day and there doesn't seem like me who has spent a lot of time coaching, mentoring, teaching, working with people who are one of two in a relationship, and those people so often talk to me. Even when I was a trainer, I mean, the thing that my clients would talk to me about most was not their carbs, their micros, macros, they're training,
their recovery. It was their relationships that was very interesting. I mean, they talk to me about everything, but if you said, what's at the top of the list, especially once you're three or four months into the relationship with a client, as in into the professional relationship, and you know, you've kind of got the food sortage, you've got the training sortage, you're in a routine, you've ticked all the boxes, and then now they're on the journey and we've got
a pretty good operating model for everything. Invariably, what I would get, you know, told or spoken to about a lot, was the shitty relationship that they were in, and I'm like, oh wow, and so yeah, it's but anyway, it's it's that's why I don't think there's a best way to do almost anything. It's like, well, what's what's great for you?
And that's you know, even with me and I never I never had a plan to be you know where I am and single, But I didn't also have a plan to go, well, by this age, I'm going to be married, I'm gonna have a wife, I'm gonna have two kids. By that age, i'm gonna have a couple of grants. Like, there wasn't an absolute plan and maybe my life would have taken a different turn, and it would have ended up very differently. But this is just
how it kind of ended up. And while I'm not saying, you know, the way that I live is the way that anybody should live at all. But the amount of people who like look at me with pity, like they're like, oh.
Poor you, what a shit life you've got?
Hey, yeah, poor you. You're sixty one and you don't have anyone somebody. I mean, I've had more than a few people. And look, they may be right, who knows, I've had more than a few people. Tell me you're going to die lonely and miserable. I'm like, oh, well, thanks for the fucking thanks for the pep talk, you know. And it's like somebody said to me recently, and we'll get off this and we'll get onto your question. Sorry for babbling for a bloke with a block, dear fuck,
I'm talking a lot. Somebody said to me, what have you got against relationships?
Oh?
Wow, Like I've never in my life said that or intimated that, or you know, I'm like, I have well, nothing. My parents have been in a pretty good one for sixty three years, and you know, most of my friends my training partner is in a long term you know, my best friends. And it's so funny they assume because I don't have a partner, that I'm anti relationship.
Yeah. And I think there's also those people that assume that because you don't have a partner, that you don't have intimate relationships with other people, assuming that intimacy is based purely on romance.
Yeah, so true, so true.
I get the comment of you know, well, you don't have kids, so who's going to look after you when you're old? Yeah, so I'm just bribing my niece to make sure she's around when I'm old.
Yeah. I think that's a good idea. I think bribing nieces and nephews, keeping them cashed up, absolutely, making sure you're the favorite. All right, So we got five questions to go. We do, and thank you for installment one and two. Let's see how we go. Let's see what you got.
So this is a question that I actually sent to you in a message, and you said that you would tell me when you saw me, And so now that you're looking at me, I'm going to ask you, yea, when did you stop equating your physicality with contentment or happiness?
Mm, So that is a really interesting question. I've spoken a lot. You know. What was funny. I was at the gym tonight. This is totally coincidental, and a guy used to work for me. His name is Nigel Chamberlain, Jambo Nige. You would have sent him. He's a bald, good looking dude, six', three a o's couple of three
child care. Centers, anyway he was there tonight and we were just, chatting and somebody else was there and they, SAID i heard you used to Be they didn't say, fat but they were, saying you, know like not in the shape you're in. Now AND i, said, well ask this bloke Because i've spoken before about being the fat gym owner and you, know like knowing what to do but not doing WHAT i know and telling and, Anyway niger was talking about WHEN i first met. You SO
i was quite a high profile. TRAINER i owned multiple gyms at that, STAGE i owned. THREE i was writing for The Herald sun In, melbourne the. NEWSPAPER i was
writing for. MAGAZINES i was working with elite athletes AND i was very strong AND i had lots of, muscle BUT i was also out of, shape LIKE i HAD i had lots of excess body, fat and we were just talking about, that and, Like i've always had this, tempestuous, tumultuous on, again off, again fucking love hate relationship with food and myself and my you, know my body image and body. Dysmorphia even WHEN i was in good, SHAPE i THOUGHT i. WASN'T i, know this sounds, pathetic and
some people are, like oh my, GOD i get. IT i get. It BUT i, remember you, know looking at myself WHEN i was in like really good, shape WHEN i was, younger and THINKING i looked like. Shit and you know how so many people do. That you, know generally it's more women than, men but it also can be men, too. Obviously BUT i think for a long, time because BECAUSE i grew, up you, know being the fattest kid and all of that, STUFF i really sought
approval from not being the fat. Kid AND i saw the consequence of me being the fat kid was not having a, girlfriend not belonging to, groups not being socially, connected not being highly regard, arded and so there were you, know in my. Mind, anyway by the, way nobody was actually really horrible to, me, RIGHT i, MEAN i did
get picked glass for sporting. Teams but that's literally BECAUSE i was morbidly, obese AND i would not have been much, help, Right but in my mind there are always these, psychological, emotional and sociological, consequences all of these things THAT i equated, With, well this bad shit is happening because of HOW i. Look this bad shit is happening Because i'm. Fat this bad shit is happening because you, know my name is Literally jumbo at, school, Right so my fat body became my.
Name and THEN i got in. Shape now this is this happens with a lot of. People Call SO i got in, shape and then all of a, sudden my social life opened. Up all of a. SUDDEN i got treated, better all of a. SUDDEN i wasn't. EXCLUDED i was
included all of a, sudden you. Know and by the, way it didn't happen in three, minutes BUT i went from not being able to jog around the block to being one of the fittest kids in the school BECAUSE i trained like a. Maniac SO i got very, fit very, strong you, know and for somebody with limited athletic, ABILITY i became an okay. Athlete and then all of a, SUDDEN i was playing. FOOTBALL i was playing in the.
SENIORS i was, playing you, know OR i was being picked in the WHATEVER i was in under, fourteen under sixteen. TEAMS i was being picked in the TEAM i wasn't you. Know and all of these great things in my mind happened in these teen. Years and so you have this correlation where you, go, oh WHEN i look like, that all these bad things. Happen WHEN i look like, this
all these good things. Happen and so very MUCH i. Was my identity and my body were very much, intertwined AND i equated to the BETTER i, looked whatever that, meant the BETTER i get, treated the more LOVED i, am the more VALUED i, am the more POPULAR i, am the more DESIRED i, am the more all of these, things WHICH i know all come out of fear and insecurity and all of that. Stuff but, SORRY i know this is a very long.
Answer it's good.
For me That i'm going to. SAY i don't struggle with it. Today But i'm still going to, say while my priority is my health and my health, span, lifespan my immune, system my level of, function cutovascular, health physical, health, bundensity muscular, health all of those, things they're my. Priorities BUT i still care sometimes too much about HOW i. Look If i'm being, HONEST i don't want to say, that, Right but nothing like WHAT i used To. Like i'm well aware that you, Know i'm a sixty year Old
blokou's in not bad. Shape you, KNOW i get. That But i'm way more interested In like that used to be my, Priority but these, Days i'm way more interested in training my brain than my, mind my brain than my. Body i'm more interested, in way more interested in WHO i am as a person rather than HOW i look as a. Person, yeah but it's really only WHEN i
got through. THAT i don't THINK i got through that real, manic, obsessive almost, addictive BECAUSE i think people who are really down the rabbit hole with eating disorders and body dysmorphia and you, know that whole kind of, irrational emotional kind of behavior that goes on around, food hidden, behaviors, lying you, know all that stuff THAT i, did all of. That it's very similar to the behavior and the thinking of people who struggle with. Addiction because you're lying to yourself and.
Others you're pretending that you're not doing all this shit that you're. Doing and when people are, watching you kind of behave a certain way when people are not, watching you. Know so for, ME i don't THINK i got through that, dark kind of, shitty addictive period TILL i was about thirty. Five SO i would Say i've, been you, know somewhere in the ballpark of much healthier and much more logical
and reasonable for the last twenty five years or. So but you, KNOW i think all of us still NEED i don't Reckon there's many people THAT i know that at some stage are not a bit irrational about their, body even people that are super, smart you, know super. Qualified the amount of you, know men and women THAT i know That i've worked with who have an, obsessive unhealthy preoccupation with one their appearance and to what they think people think of their, appearance it's a huge number of.
People huge put my hand up for, that, Absolutely and that's WHY i asked you that, question because it was something that was definitely going through my mind at the, time and that came from a journey of losing a fair bit of weight and then getting into the their headspace of oh my, GOD i can't let that go back.
On mainly FROM i would say eighty percent from a health, perspective and then absolutely, honest honestly twenty percent from A i love fitting into all of the clothes THAT i really enjoy fitting.
Into, now of, course how much weight do you will? Take did you lose.
Ten?
Kilos, yeah and you're not you're not a so that's quite like you're reasonably with love and kindness and. Respect you're kind of, little so that's quite a lot of. Weight.
Yeah.
Yeah but here's here's the other. Thing think about, THIS. Celp so we can simultaneously know two. Things we can know, that, hey all this Bullshit i'm doing with food and the successive exercise and the obsession with you, know buying a million clothes and all of, that we can simultaneously know that that's kind of unhealthy and toxic and. Disempowering and also know that, sadly, culturally the better you, look the
better you get treated to a, point right for. Sure so there's all of these especially for, kids that's fucking. Terrifying if you're a gorgeous teenager or young person twenties even, thirties and you're online and you're, beautiful AND i mean men and, women you're a beautiful look and, dude a beautiful looking, lady and you're going to get lots of. Attention then all of a, sudden you're getting all of this.
Dopamine you're getting all of this kind of brain candy because people are, Going oh my, god you're so, gorgeous you're so, gorgeous you're so, jacked you're so. Amazing oh look at you, girl so. Beautiful look at you, Dude you're oh. Wow, right and then this light's all run up like A christmas. Tree, well that's. Addictive that's, addictive.
You know it.
Is and you think, about like how many people have got An instagram, page and let's say there's two thousand images on their, page and one thousand of those images or of, them, yeah in some kind of, pose if not more LIKE i. Saw it doesn't. Matter somebody THAT i know and they Their instagram page come across like this PERSON i personally. Know i'll just say not male or, FEMALE i won't, say but there are. Pretty you, know they're a very attractive. Person nearly every, photo nearly every
photo was of them. Posing i'm, like it does nothing when you look at your page and that's just like hundreds of pictures of your, Face like we know what you look. Like this one is like yesterday's, one it's like Last you don't have a new. Face we've seen. It and, yes you're amazing and you're beautiful or you're, handsome and yes you've got a good. Body BUT i think a thousand pictures of you is? Enough like, yeah like what drives? That like the? Psychology And i'm not
trying to sound Like i'm being hateful or. Hurtful i'm definitely. Not i'm fascinated with how when you look at Your instagram page and there's hundreds of pictures of you and then you, Go i'm going to take another picture of me? Today like why.
Why they're not looking at themselves though they're looking at the likes and the follows and potentially how you, know them making money out of? It so or maybe they are looking at. Themselves who, Knows maybe they are if they're posting that many.
Selfies CAN i say that we've only done one? Question AND i blame?
You, WELL i am during the book of the.
Talking, no you're definitely. NOT i totally blame. Me all, right let's go question.
Two question, two what's next after THE?
PhD that is a good, question and this is Not i'm not even been. Funny what's after THE PhD within a month is a? Puppy, yes a. Puppy. FUCK i just need a puppy in my. LIFE i need some little cute thing just THAT i can love and can love.
Me AND.
I love. Dogs i've had three dogs in my life AND i haven't had a dog for quite a. While and last TIME i got a dog wasn't really my. Dog it WASN'T i didn't really think it. Through SO i applied for a blind a guide dog to, be you, know a kind of a, trainer and they live with
you for about ten. Months and between WHEN i applied and when they rang me and went, hey we've got a puppy was a year and a. Half and my life was very different a year and a half, later AND i almost went no BECAUSE i was just traveling so, much you, know AND i should have said. No BUT i had the puppy for a few months AND i had. TO i had to take him back because with those guide dogs, anyway, yeah you need. To you need to spend most of your time with. Them and it was my.
Dad he was fucking. BEAUTIFUL i loved, him and there was that there was LIKE i. Was so that year WHEN i got, HIM i did something like one hundred and thirty presentations WHERE i had to you, know a lot of them were into, state So i'm. Traveling THEN i need to get someone to mind, him and it's a nightmare AND i. CAN'T i couldn't give him WHAT i needed to give him or what he. Deserves so they found somebody, else which had a lot more time THAN i. Did but with my next, puppy that won't
be the. Case So i'm going to get a, puppy AND i might DO i might do some kind of more casual or informal, research BUT i really need to more, IMPORTANTLY i really need to focus on the business for a year or two or, three Because i've really not neglected. It but you, know so LIKE i used to do somewhere between ten and fifteen like public events Around australia every, Year australia And New. Zealand i'm talking about open to
the public. WORKSHOPS i hardly do any of those anymore just because of all the Stuff i'm, Doing So i'd like to do more of, those and, yeah just probably chill out.
A little, Bit, yeah fair. Enough will it be a rescue. Puppy, yeah probably it'll LOOK i.
LOVE i love labbies because IF i was a, Dog i'd be a labby BECAUSE i love food AND i like being cuddled and licking people and.
Not really the last, one of, course and SO i love. LABBIES i Love Golden, retrievers BUT i Love i'm more a medium sized dog person than a LITTLE i like all, dogs, right there's not a dog THAT i don't, like but, yeah, probably BUT i Think i'll get a rescue. Dog AND i Think i'll just go with no real plan and just see WHO i fall in love.
With that's. Exciting, yeah, Yeah so.
That's that's my POST. PhD and that hopefully will. Happen, well all of my work will be handed in Before, christmas and then you, know you go back and forth with different you, know where you write something and then it gets reviewed and revised and then your supervisors send it. Back And i'm going back and forth at the moment with my literature, Review systematic Literature. Review another paper That
i've written has been sent off for potential. Publication but you send something off to an academic journal and you basically sit on your hands until they say yes or, no which could be six, months and they could in six months just send you a two word or a
two line email saying nah thanks. Anyway so there's a fair bit of, uncertainty but hopefully all of the work THAT i need to do will be done in the next few months and then, yeah with a little bit of, luck i'll be Doctor harps somewhere Around, Christmas New year or a bit. BEYOND i don't. Know we'll see what. Happens. Fantastic, yeah, yeah all, right too, down it's free to. Go i'll see IF i can speed it up a little.
Bit all, right let's. Go you have the opportunity to interview anyone dead or. Alive who is it and? Why?
Yeah this IS i, MEAN i don't, know LIKE i really, like, UH i actually read this. QUESTION i THOUGHT i need to think about this because, like there are so many like modern day people THAT i WOULD i would like to chat with that other people go what the fuck is wrong with? You Like i'd love to chat With Ricky. Gervais oh, GREAT i know he polarizes, people BUT i FUCKING i think he's all. Right Joe, rogan same polarizes. PEOPLE i get. It, uh you, know like Mother. Teresa
BUT i MEAN i grew up my. Mum my mum's like More catholic than the. Pope, Right SO i grew up with all of these saints in my kind of. Life but IF i can't give you, One BUT i, mean OBVIOUSLY i don't know how we'd go on a. Podcast But jesus would be. Good he'd be good to chat.
To he, would you, KNOW.
I wouldn't mind interviewing Sid Arthur. Gutwama do you know who he?
IS i don't The, Buddha, OKAY.
I wouldn't mind chatting with The. Buddha he was around about half a millennium Before. Jesus he was around five one HUNDRED bc or something like. That. Uh Marcus, Aurelius he's like my favorite stoic because he was actually like
an emperor slash king slash Philosopher roman. Emperor he wrote a very famous book Called, meditations which was he wrote that as like a private journal of reflection to, himself and then people got a hold of it and it got, out and he was like this rare example of immense power combined with absolute humility and self reflection and. Restraint so he lived a really like he was really a person who lived of service in, service despite the fact that he could have had and done anything he, wanted
so he lived a stoic life under. Pressure so any of those and also for obvious. REASONS i, MEAN i
would love to chat With. OPRAH i find PEOPLE i don't love everything About, oprah BUT i like a lot about, her AND i, think you, know it's like all of those people, like, yeah there's there's pros and, cons But oprah has done some amazing shit and for you, know when you hear her, backstory and, YEAH i just think she'd Be But i'd like to get through the public super Polished, oprah you, know like she's so, polished she's so good at, television she's so good at being in
front of the. Camera i'd love to just fucking mess her hair up a little bit and just just hang out with, her you, know, no no, Cameras, NO i, MEAN i know you can't really do that in an, interview but, yeah i'd like. To i'd like to interview The oprah behind the, camera behind the, mic behind the. Persona i'd love to chat to that.
One, YEAH i imagine what that what that real version of her is, like and it's hard to imagine, also given that she has been in the public eye for so long and she has got this distinct persona where everything's, happy everything's. Great sometimes she'll ask those probing. QUESTIONS i wonder has that begun to blend and if there is a real version of her that's just at home with her feed up and you, know a cup of, tea binging On, netflix.
Yes, interesting eating some chocolate and patting a. Dog. Yeah, Look and that's no. DISRESPECT i, mean she's a fucking. Weapon she's. Incredible like her, success what she's, done it's. Amazing, Absolutely BUT i feel like that version of her everyone's, met you. Know and it's not to say that's disingenuous at. ALL i think she's an incredibly gifted. Communicator BUT i don't want to talk to that version of. HER i want to talk to the, barefoot no, makeup messy, hair you,
know feels a bit full from. DINNER i want to talk to that, version you. KNOW i want to talk to that could be a little bit grumpy in the, interview you, know that, one you. Know but, anyway so that's my answer question for kel question.
Four, okay what is something like one thing in the course of your. PhD that has absolutely surprised.
You, YEAH i, think and this surprises a lot of. People so keeping in mind That i'm doing a PhD in, psychology, Right but what people don't really get is that you're it's like you're. Researching it's like you're researching a drop of water in a thousand oceans of what there is
to know about human behavior and people and. Psychology so when you do you, know like when you do an undergrad in, psychology you're learning broadly about human behavior in different styles of you, know profiling personalities and all of these myriad of, things says the bloke who's never done an undergrad in, Psychology, Right but when when you do a research based PhD in psych like, me you design and implement and create and execute all of your own,
research and you are examining one very very very specific, thing and you are trying to basically fill a hole or a gap in the. Science and so even though you Know i'll come out with a doctorate in, psychology you, know it's, like, oh he's got a PhD in human. Psychology it's, like, yeah but of all the things that fall under the banner of, Psychology i'm not studying almost
all of, them do you know WHAT i? Mean and so when it comes, to you, know my very specific topic of meta, accuracy which is understanding how people see me, you understanding how people see, you you, know and that my hierarchy of thought That i've said many, times mentioned many times on, here which is, metacognition which is thinking about. Thinking and then the next one up is theory of.
Mind as we're climbing the cognitive, pyramid the next one is theory of, mind which is thinking about or having an insight into how other people. Think and then the next one, up which is my area of, research which is meta, accuracy which is understanding how people see, you think about, you perceive, you experience. You and at the top of that is really my research, focus which is, metaaccuracy which is understanding how good you are at that right.
Now this is an incredibly specific, construct a very, specific finite area of. Research and so then you go into that space and you look at all the others search that's been done in that, area and you, you you, know you try to build on, that you try to develop, that and you try to find gaps in. That so my long winded answer is What i've learned a lot is how to do research at a high. Level but HAVE i? DO i know a huge amount more broadly speaking about human behavior than five and a half years
ago WHEN i. Started, No, No. No in, fact most of my understanding of how people work and think and behave and act and react and do life and do, relationships most of that is really just from paying attention for forty. Years, yeah you, know so a PhD teaches you the kind of PhD i'm, doing teaches you how to do high level.
Research it's almost very full. Circle given your answer before about how you were the fat kid who then realized that you, know once you lost that, weight that people had this different perception of you because you looked. Better that you then are now studying what it is to understand how people think about, you and how accurately you understand what people think about, you given where you come.
From, well that is that is very fucking, Insightful Kelly, Smith BECAUSE i was the person who used to worry a lot about what people thought of him and HOW i was perceived by others and whether or not they liked me or wanted to connect with, me OR i don't, know THOUGHT i was a, dickhead or THOUGHT i was a good, guy or so BECAUSE i was widely insecure and fearful and you know all the other. Stuff, YEAH
i worried a lot about. That and it is very interesting that all these years, Later i'm now, doing you, know high level research in understanding how people actually see, me understanding that kind of metacognitive sorry that met a perceptive kind of skill or. Trait but also that is true what you're, saying and maybe that was the genesis for my. Curiosity but ALSO i truly believe. THIS i believe that being able to one understand how others, think
which most people don't think about. MUCH i, mean really think, about what is it like being Inside kelly's? Mind IF i looked at the world Through kelly's, window what AM
i seeing right? Now what Is kelly? Feeling how Is kelly on this podcast in this, Moment and then for me to have some insight and some awareness and some understanding of that for you and me in real, time knowing THAT i am not having probably anything like the experience you are currently, having despite the fact that we're both kind of doing the same, Thing we're both on the you project at six point fifty one On wednesday, night and we're both talking on zoom and we're both
doing a version of the exact same. Thing and then you, know being able to in real time understand That kelly's not in my, Reality i'm not In kelly's, reality and also then to have enough curiosity and empathy and hopefully awareness to try to at least be curious about interested in understanding how you're going right, now what you're thinking right,
now what you're feeling right. Now because IF, i or anyone in real, TIME i can understand the individual reality of the person in front of, ME i can understand to an extent how they see the, world or how they see that, conversation or how they see, themselves or how they see. Me in other, WORDS i can tap into what they're currently, thinking, feeling or experiencing to some. Extent THEN i open a door of connection and rapport and trust and engagement THAT i can't open without that.
Knowledge right If i've got no idea how you, Think If i've got no idea of What kelly's, about or what drives her or motivates her or scares her or excites, her If i've got no, idea Then i'm you, know in terms of, Socialization i'm just guessing in a conversation.
And probably still worrying about what people think about, you.
Right, yeah. Yeah and you, know there's a Concept i've spoken about probably ten times called the false consensus. Effect you've heard me say. That do you remember what it?
IS i, don't, Right the false consensus effect is just the fact that we think that other people think like.
Us we automatically assume. That so we automatically, assume for, example That i'm saying something to you and my intention is, Good so Therefore kelly's experience of WHAT i said will be. Good So i'm assuming you think like, me Whereas kelly
might be thinking totally. Different So kelly's experience of my good, Intention kelly's experience is, bad, Yep BECAUSE i, said, hey da da da da, da which was meant to be, whatever some positive feedback or, something and for, you the experience is unwanted, feedback it's, judgment it's somehow for, you it was, criticism or it was some kind of you, know whatever from me that you didn't, want didn't, need didn't,
expect didn't. Enjoy And i'm over here In, craigland assuming That kelly's In, craigland all good bet at, eight you, know and THAT i think being able to understand how other people, think And i've said this many, times not agree with, them not align with, them but understand how other people think is a fucking interpersonal. Superpower if you're in a position of, teaching, coaching, leading managing people and you're not interested in how your people, THINK i was
going to, say you're a fucking. Idiot that's a bit. HARSH i won't say, that But i'll just say you should probably get.
Interested, yeah or maybe you're in the wrong. Job.
WELL i Mean i've literally Had i've said to leaders cow When i've gone into, companies what do you think it's like being around you for your? Team And i've, had admittedly mostly men SAY i don't. CARE i don't care if they like it or. Not they're here to do a. Job i'm not their. Friend i'm not trying to be their. Friend i've got a, job they've got a,
job And i'm, like you're the dumbest motherfucker. Ever you, know if you don't understand the importance of, connection, communication, culture you, know valuing people like even, if, firstly don't do it this, way but even if you're just doing it because it's good for, business we'll fucking do, it you, know like the THE i mean not many, times but
probably five times over the. Years and usually it's you, know somebody who's you, know close to the narcissistic end of the old, scale you, know the, sociopathic, narcissistic ego. Maniacal it's my way of the. Highway but also that for whatever, reason quite a lot of those people end up in positions of.
Leadership, absolutely and they are delightful, though aren't. They but enough about?
Me what do you think about? Me a bit of?
That? Absolutely, yeah the best leader That i've, had she said to, me if EVER i had the opportunity to lead a team of, people she, Said, look majority of people can do the, job but they can learn the skills to do the work that is. Required what you need to do is get to know them as a human. Being so that, is go for a coffee with, them go for a walk with, them see what it is that makes them tick outside of. Work if you get that, downpat then the actual skills of the, job no.
Worries, yeah one d per AND i know it's really basic and. Fundamental but if the people that work with, you alongside, you for, you under, you above, whatever if they like. YOU i know this is real, basic but if they like, you guess what they're going to enjoy working with.
You like?
You you don't have to be their best. Friend but don't be an. Asshole that should be like fucking rule. One don't be an. Asshole, yeah we know you. Clever we know you've got a fucking master's in. Business da da da. Da we know that you used to work at that. Company we know you're on five hundred grand a. Year well, done. Champ don't be an.
Asshole, Absolutely, look this is something That i've been talking about with a friend and we used to kind of, say you, know just come, in be, nice it's all that's. Required but even, that now it's literally just don't be an. Asshole totally.
Understand we're on the same. Page all, right home? Straight what have we?
Got home? Straight this is very. Philosophical for the last, question oh, yeah it's sad and.
Reflective this.
Question, YEAH i thought it was quite quite, deep which is WHY i included. It, so if you died, tomorrow what is the one thing you want people to remember you.
For, YEAH i don't. KNOW i, mean like some of the like sometimes you, know when your answer is it's not it's not, exciting it's not an impressive, answer but it's the. Answer like sometimes with these, QUESTIONS i feel, like And i'm not going to but OH i need to say something like fucking mesmerizing and people, go oh my, god that was so. Profound kelly asked him, this and he went that and fucking let's write that. DOWN a good one would be he wasn't an. Asshole yeah that
on my termstone wasn't an asshole in. Brackets, MOSTLY i MEAN i would like people, to you, know remember. That, like, honestly this is going to sound not in A i don't really. CARE i, MEAN i care about what people think of me When i'm, gone but Like i'm going to be, GONE i care more about the impact that the ongoing impact THAT i might have in their lives as a result of them being you, know connected to me in some. WAY i GUESS i would want people
to remember me for being a good student and. Teacher like, no somebody who wasn't you, know super, gifted talented or, special but did the best with what he, had somebody who was you, know, flawed but spent his life trying to be better than he's, bullshit you know that kind of. STUFF i GUESS i don't and this Is i'm not fishing here at. All BUT i think my listeners know. This LIKE i don't have an overwhelming opinion of myself at. All and.
You, know.
When people, are you, know critical of, me which they have every right to, be it's LIKE i feel like, going, Hey, champ get in the, Queue like you could not be more critical of me THAN i am of. Me so BUT i hope people THINK i was a good. GUY i had good. Intentions for the most, PART i did good THINGS i. Had MAYBE i left a little bit of an impact and maybe that'll trickle. Down but you, Know i'm also what's the, WORD i don't know what is the? Word there's a, word it's not coming to.
Mind but you, know there's eight billion people in the. World we've been around for three hundred thousand. Years nobody's going to miss. Me there's about six people who'll be sad till Fucking, THURSDAY, avo and then that's. It i'm very practical and realistic like.
THAT i think you might be wrong, there but it is such a lovely thing to want for people to like for you to still have that, Impact and it's probably something that you're not even aware of that you have that impact even when people aren't engaging with what it is that you do on a daily, Basis like they might have seen a, whiteboard you, know on a scroll, session or they might, have you, know listened to a podcast here or. There, YEAH i think you might be.
Surprised well, maybe but don't tell me that Or i'll get a fat head and Well i'll be in. Trouble, hey, kel you. SURVIVED i. Survived my ear still, blocked BUT i think for a bloke with a blocked, EAR i actually did all. Right it's not OFTEN i give myself a. Wrap thank you so much for doing, This thanks for putting up your. Hand how have you enjoyed?
It it's been. Amazing I'VE i really loved. It i've felt very very selfish That i've been able to ask all of these questions of, you like completely, uninterrupted like so not at a conference and you, know battling with other people WHERE i would not have put my hand up IF i had to stand up in the. Crowd that is not. Me so to be able to HAVE i, guess you, know a free go at asking WHAT i. Wanted it's been really really fun and certainly dragged me out of my comfort, zone which is.
Great, well you're definitely. NOT i, MEAN i Think i'm right WHEN i say you're not an, extrovert right close to the introvert end of the. Scale i'm actually surprised that you And i'm grateful And i'm. Glad it's LIKE i think it's you, know it's encouraging for others because you're not naturally the, loud attention seeking. Extroverty like if, anything WHEN i used to see you at the gym years,
Ago i'm, like that girl is painfully. Shy, Yes AND i tried not to be the big, intimiday you, know and SO i was conscious about not overwhelming you but also being you, know hopefully whatever it was that would make you feel comfortable interacting with me for twenty seconds or three minutes at the, gym you, know because you're again, like, yeah we're very, different but, yeah you did a good. Job did you learn?
Anything like absolutely, ABSOLUTELY i learned a lot more about, you and you, know it's it's very different asking the questions and listening to particularly like some of the things when you, KNOW i thought WHEN i asked, you what would, be you, know the one exercise you could, do and then you came up with. Surfing that's it's still just stuck in my. Mind, yeah there's been a lot That i've.
Learned the more in depth information that you were talking about tonight with what you've learned from your, PhD, like that's all very, exciting AND i hope that once you're, done you share that in a way that is easy for you, know the everyday listener to digest because it's incredibly. FASCINATING i didn't realize that you'd want to interview a Barefoot. Oprah that was. Surprising BUT i can picture, it can absolutely picture.
It, barefoot messy, hair no, makeup just had.
Dinner, yeah slightly, Grumpy.
Yeah a little bit.
Grumpy, Yeah, YEAH i can imagine. IT i can imagine. It and if anyone could Get oprah to drop AN f, bomb it's going to be, You so for, sure that.
Would that would be. Mandatory how you've done. GREAT i appreciate. YOU i will see you at the. Gym we'll say goodbye our Fair but for the, Minute, kel thank you so much for being on The you project and taken me for a test. Drive you did a good.
Job thanks it's been fun