Bobby Capuccio, my brother from another mother. Hi, buddy, welcome back to the show. How are you doing?
Hey, what's going on? Craig, Welcome to the self hell band to do it? You know, I always forget to welcome you. You're so welcoming to me, but I never respond and kind, I never welcome you.
Yeah, And of course people don't know these these are co shares, right. So you put up our chat every week on the self help Pantidote.
Well, not every week, but yeah, I put it up on the Self Help Bart periodically periodically, yeah, I mean regularly.
Yeah, yeah, Well, you and I would just have an interesting chat off air, and we thought we might because you and I do zero planning, which is probably evident in the quality of the conversations and the overall you know, finished product. But fuck it, let's roll on. We were talking welcome, we were talking about we're nothing if not not prepared. We're talking about how people seem to be less kind than the old days. And I've said to you, I don't know, maybe I grew up in a bubble.
I did grow up in the country mostly, and most people were somewhere between pretty nice and really fucking nice most of the time. And then I also said to you me walking down the street because I walk a lot, and but walking around even suburbia in Melbourne, I'm thinking if I wasn't a relatively big, strong, mildly intimidating male, I'd be fucking terrified sometimes.
Yeah. I nearly got stabbed on the tram. Yeah I know that because the person I was talking to was that, like, he said, I'm about to stab you. So I was like, oh, wow, okay, this.
Is that was when you were in Melbourne last year, right.
Yeah it was. I was like god, getting stepped and it was like it was like a Saturday morning. I was like, God, it's too early in the morning for a stabbing. I haven't even had like a proper breaky yet. So yeah, I was. I was writing on the tram, which is usually the best way to take the tram, and there's this guy. He's sitting there with no shirt and it's it's September, like early September, and he's I didn't notice it, but he had all these hospital tags.
He had just gotten out of hospital. He had just been stabbed, which is gonna make a lot of sense as the story goes on and it was this older and when I say older, like she had to be like in her eighties Asian lady. And she's sitting right next to him, and he just starts talking to himself and screaming to himself. And you know, no judgment, I have turettes that could have been me, like you know, at any other tram ride. So she kind of gets a bit nervous. She gets up and she walks to
another seat. Well, he gets offended by this not a very thick skin bloke for a guy who just got stabbed, and he gets up and he walks over and he sits down right next to me because she's sitting across from me, and he's leaning across and he's like threatening her and like yelling at her. And I'm just sitting there watching this, going, what what are you gonna do? You can you can hit her? She's an old lady.
So I had mentioned like the the age differential and size and other factors involved and just ask them like, you know, I just reconsider what you're doing. Well, he didn't like that either, so he was he was he was not very happy with the passengers on the tram. But I don't think this individual. I don't think one deeply disturbed individual is representative of society. I think you said it the environment. He's like, Oh, I grew up in a bubble. Well, I believe you know there there
are benefits and liabilities to every environment. I think we are our collective societal identity is so fractured, and the intersection of you and me, I mean, real meaningful connection. I think that's decreased a bit, and it's taken a toll.
I think, not only on the psychology of the individual, but just just society's gotten a little bit sick in my mind, And yeah, I'm not I don't have credentials to make that determination, but from my own observation, yeah, when you start to become apathetic, there are a lot of different reasons. One you truly just don't care. So yeah, someone who does have a lot of first hand experience, or did have a lot of first hand experience with the extremes of humanity, sadly is the late great doctor
Victor Frankel. And part of the course work I'm doing, I just finished reading Man Search for Meaning, and it wasn't the first time, and he talked about how apathy was a form of self protection where you've seen so much stuff, You've seen so many beatings, you've seen so much murder day to day. The only way to protect yourself is to become completely apathetic to everything that's going on around you. But I don't just see apathy. I
see extreme hostility. I think people are really struggling, and they're struggling at an identity level, and I think there's so much lack of predictability, and we've moved away from things that are intrinsically predictable. And I think about it like you're talking about living in a bubble. That could be a good thing or a bad thing. Like if you grow up in a small town and everybody in that town is just lovely and they're just very open,
and there's a lot of vulnerability that'll shape you. But I mean, you know, you can grow up in a small town and it's like, I think that's extreme Texas change saw massacre. But on the other hand, like if you're growing up and you have no exposure to anybody else, Yeah, and the messaging that you're getting about the world is not very healthy, it's not very expansive. It doesn't cause you to be very kind to anyone outside of a
mayarpic perspective of what a person should be. That's kind of that's also problematic, especially when you identify with that growing up in a big city. It could be very problematic. It could be very beneficial.
Yeah, there are fours and against I was. Firstly, we acknowledged before anyone sends an email that the man that Bobby was talking to on the train clearly had mental health issues. We recognize that, So you don't need to tell us that we recognize that, but we can still protect the old lady in the middle of that situation. So well done.
You.
Second thing is so Victor Frankel, just for our listeners who don't know, well, you tell everyone who he was, and so Second World War, just to give context of who this guy is who wrote this book that you spoke about.
Yeah, I mean a lot of people probably have read his work or heard the name. But Victor frankl was an Austrian psychiatrist, that psychologist, sorry, a neurologist, that was taken captive and he spent nearly three years of his life in four different concentration camps. He lost his newlywed beloved wife, he lost his parents, and he did. What he endured and what he experienced, and the conclusions that he drew out of that experience is nothing short of remarkable.
I mean, a lot of us have opinions, but very very few of us and this is not a critique like, Thank Heavens, few of us have had to suffer through and pay the price in advance for the formation of those opinions. And then you know, he did obviously survive. He wrote a small but powerful book, Man Search for Meaning, and he is the founder of logo therapy.
I would I read that book. You and I probably read it about the time stid our journey. I read it in my I'm going to say twenties, maybe thirty ish, and yeah, like a simple little book but quite profound. It's you know, I think the what books do for me, and especially biographies or biographically influenced memoirs or you know, teaching guiding books, is they give me an opportunity to look at something through somebody else's lens. And it like what I love is when you get immersed in someone
else's story and someone else's experience and emotions. You know, it's not the same as being them, but it gives you a level of other awareness that is really hard to get otherwise. And I love that. That's why I love Yeah, I love biographies, especially ones that have kind of you know, like sharing profound wisdom and insights and experiences,
be they painful or be they joyful. But yeah, that was one of those first books that for me made me, made me incredibly grateful for what I didn't have to go through and what I haven't experienced, and where I didn't live in the time of you know, of the human timeline that I was born in. And yeah, it's it's gratitude is a hard thing to keep a hold of, but that certainly was good for me.
For me, it was you know, I can only respond to the world based on my interpretation and my own past experiences, and I can imaginedly project myself into other people's laws, situations and worldview, but never really experience it. And for me, books allow you to expand your mind and go anywhere and to a degree of the world vicariously through other people. And Victor Frankel went through something like extraordinary in the most horrific sense of the word,
and the conclusions that he drew out of it. I mean, we talk about purpose, We talk about meaning and how important it is and how much of a well being initiative. You know, purpose truly is to allow us to cope and develop resilience, but not witness what this guy witnessed. Like one out of every twenty eight people that went into those camps survived, Like most people. He said, like as soon as he got off the train, you know,
there was someone standing there. And it's really confusing because you're getting dragged off this train, like there's dogs barking and people screaming at you. And there was a guy and who's so casual. This is what he noticed. He was resting his elbow on his arm, and he was just almost like undiscernibly motioning with his index finger like that way that way to the left or to the right, and like ninety percent of the time I think it was to the right he was motioning. And that was.
Immediate execution because people were too that they were too weary from the trip for whatever reason, too old, too young to be of any use in the work camps.
And ten percent of the time he just you know, like flicked it the other way, and you went into the work camp, and what happened that like that was not a lucky break by any measure of the word. And he he witnessed such extremes of humanity and it was the people that and there's so much more to this, but what he attributed to his survival on other people's survival is the depth of the meaning of their situation, like what does this mean? And what is my reason
to survive? What was interesting is he said, like as a physician. Once they found out that he was a physician in the camp, anyone who was like really sick will go ten to those people and he would have conversations and he could almost tell someone who was really not doing well, and they were not long for the world because within the conversation it was revealed that they had nothing left to expect from life, where the people
that persevered had the opposite perspective. They believed that even in the midst of the most unimaginably cruel circumstances, life was demanding something from them. Life was not accountable to them. They were still accountable to life. And whether that was in Victor Frankel's case, they burned his manuscripts. He had it in his head he wanted to reproduce his manuscripts, to bring something out into the world that would serve humanity.
He wondered he would see on these more he would just see his wife's face and her smile, and he wanted to get back to her. For other people who's remembering the names and faces of the captors, yea, to sort of they survived, they could take part in bringing them to justice. And it was this deep rooted purpose that without that you won't survive.
Yeah, it's I think, you know, finding finding a way in the middle of what seems to be like insurmountable, you know, odds or pain or obstacles, And I wonder what makes you know, like sometimes even in the self help personal development space that you and I kind of you know, professional development, personal development, you and I kind
of live professionally. But the rah rah b all you can be try harder, work through adversity, you know, like it's it's quite limited in its application, and you know, in the middle of extreme whatever. I wonder how much of that is just I don't know, personality, How much of that is genetic, how much of that is you know, the neurochemistry, you know, or the biochemistry of the brain how much of that is I don't know, some spiritual
component faith, hope, you know. I wonder what makes the difference. And because some of the you know, some of the what you would think would be the toughest people whatever that means, can capitulate quickly and other people just for whatever reason just find a way.
Well, you hear that all the time, right, Like the people who you think would like rock up and oh wow, look at this individual. Yeah, they're going to do really well in whatever the challenging of circumstances, and they don't. And then you look at someone's completely unassuming in every respect of the world. You just don't know. And I think it's a combination of all things. But I think it's almost like to me going back to certainty. And I know I bring this up all the time. Certainty
scares the shit out of me. And people who are so certain in their worldview in my mind what I'm witnessing, they're so easily manipulated.
First of all, do you mean the idea of certainty, like the idea that people are absolutely certain about things that Okay.
I know, I know, I know what you're about, I know what I'm about, I know what I would do in any given set of circumstances. Those people over there, they're really good. Those people over there, they're bad. Meanwhile, we don't know shit about even se if you really think about like, well, that's just me, that's not the
person I am. I know myself, do you really like if you really get down to it, like you really half of us probably more don't really understand ourselves an intimate level, but you understand somebody else in its entirety, and you can create this global generalization. But think about somebody like that, like, think about how he wound up
in a concentration camp in the first place. It's that, I mean, there's a lot more to it, but there's that perspective being leveraged with a false narrative, and people just I mean, just get on board. And god, what's interesting you're talking about? You don't know people. You cannot look at someone and say, well that person. Do you remember in the book where he was talking about the commander of one of the camps, So he was really sick, and he was tending to other people who were so
sick and in so much pain. They probably weren't going to make it. They weren't giving them any medicines, barely any medicine to go around. And then but medicine kept showing up, and they had like barely enough, and kept
showing up and had barely enough. And the whole time it was the commander of the concentration camp, the top guy in charge, who was going into town and spending what Victor Frankel estimated was a large sum of his own money secretly bringing medicine for these prisoners back into
the camp. So when when Germany fell and the Allies had taken over these camps and liberated them, they were looking for this commander and the prisoners were protecting this commander and said, well, don't he's like, don't get confused. He wasn't trying to say, well, this commander was really secretly a kind hearted person. No, he was a Nazi commander who oversaw a concentration camp. Wasn't a really kind guy. But yet in the midst of that, you would never
expect that like anonymity and kindness. Yet you would have fellow prisoners in the camp. But before the war were probably normal people going out, sitting at cafes. Someone you would talk to in the morning, and he said that they were more brutal. Prisoners that were put in position of authority were more brutal to other prisoners than any guard could have been. It's like, do you really know people?
Can you really make determinations? I think it's scary because the more we distance from each other and the more we resort to this tribalism, the more we just have an echo chamber and certainty. Certainty can be leveraged to shocking extents. So for me, that's a characteristic in someone and myself that terrifies me.
I feel like the need that people have to be certain arises from the terror that people have to be uncertain, Like people do not like not knowing. And I actually think that when you lean into the truth, like the truth is, we don't know a lot of things. We
probably don't know most things. And I feel like also because quite often our identity, as I've said many times, our identity is intertwined with what we think, with our belief, with our certainty that despite the fact that there's four thousand religions, twelve major religions, my religion is the one, and my religion and my religion alone has got a unique hotline to the divine and everyone else is going hell where not and like to be able to go, look,
this is what I think about the god thing, this is what I believe, well, this is what I believe to be the best diet, or this is what I believe to be the best w whatever. Nonetheless, that's just my belief. I've been wrong many times in my life, hundreds, maybe thousands of times I've been wrong. So the chance that I'm absolutely right about this thing for which I have no categoric evidence is zero. So to be able to go look you think, AI think, b that's cool.
I don't need to convince you. You don't need to convince me. And also, neither do we have to hate each other because we don't align on what is or we don't align on a certain opinion on ideology or philosophy or theology. And more importantly, we can actually love
each other. We can actually be kind. Obviously there are some exceptions to this about hate and violence and extremism, of course, but in general terms, with most of the things that most people get hysterical about online, it's like, Okay, you know you think Donald Trump's the devil. I don't, or I do, and you don't or whatever. It's like, it doesn't matter what we by the way, it doesn't matter what you think. And I think it's not going
to change anything. All we're doing is creating angst and separation and we're getting online and we're you know, it's like, it's just to me most of it. I think there's a time for pushback, and there's a time, but I think most of the disagreement and the anger and the hate and the separation, it's so fucking toxic and unhealthy and pointlessly devastating.
So my wife is a little bit ill right now. She's fine, but we you know, we went to hospital yesterday and they did a bunch of tests and x rays and you know, they gave her meds because it's great if my wife had a nail through her head, like she would just like get a and go to work for her to go, oh, I think this is serious.
It's serious. So we went to the hospital and when they gave her the meds, they were talking about, Okay, well you want to take this this pill in the morning and this pill at night, but don't take this pill at night because if you take this pill at night, you're not gonna sleep well, and that's gonna make you a lot worse. And it's almost like we've been prescribed all these pills and it's like, okay, if you if you take this in the morning, it's gonna make you
a lot better. If you take this pill in the morning, it's gonna make you a lot worse. And we just keep popping the pill that's gonna make us worse. First thing in the morning we wake up and we keep taking it and taking It's like, I feel so horrible, and then what do you do. I'm gonna take more of this because if you look at it like like the the one, the biochemistry and the psychology of kindness, all things being equal, will mitigate the levels of stress
you're feeling. Yeah, it will. It will elevate your sense of connection, it will elevate your sense of safety, it will it will increase everything that you want and decrease everything that you don't want. Even if it doesn't change the world around you, it'll change the world within you and the people who are their sipping into that kindness. But we don't do that right instead of instead of going and going, oh, well, look at this person, what are they going through? What it's what is it like
to be them? Yeah, and and really exploring that with care. It's like, are they like me? The fact that that there's a side for people living in the same country is ridiculous. It's like, and here in this country, God, I avoid politics. But what's funny is on both quote unquote sides, they flip on their core values depending on who said what. Yes, It's like one side is like, listen, we believe the color blue is the most important thing that we have here. And then like the other side,
we'll say, oh yeah, we like blue. Oh no, we hate blue. We're all about green here. We hate it, but we hate those blue people.
Yes.
And it's like you just based your entire identity on a belief system that you abandon because your side said something different or another side said something that you have to now position against. What are we doing where if we would just see each other and talk to people
and be interested, yes, you wouldn't be suffering. But no, we jump on threads and we make the most horrible comments, and it's like we're so certain and we're not curious at all about other people, and we just keep taking that same pill, and we wonder why it hurts so bad.
The other night I was doing my this is off the back of that, I was doing my group, my mentoring group, and we're talking about it's gonna same, unrelated but at the time.
So Wake four, which it was, was you and your body, right, so it's just week three as you in your mind and every week as you and something, You and your career, you.
And your future, you know, you and your potential. Anyway, we're talking about the body and you know, very broad, kind of just broad brushstrokes around, like what are the big you know, what are the big ticket items. And obviously we talk about sleep, We talk about excidse, we talk about food, talk about managing stress, talk about environment, talk about you know, the impact of work on your physical, mental,
and emotional health. Blah blah blah. And then we talk about love and being loved, and we talk about the value of connection and somebody being kind and somebody caring and not being isolated, not feeling you know, alone, and the biological and biochemical benefits you know, oxytocin and dopamine and serotonin and dolphins and vasopress and all of these other awesome things that happen that make us feel amazing, right,
and they happen in the proximity of other humans. It's like being around being around love, being around kindness, being around care, being around somebody who values you, you know, being around somebody who's going to give you a hug or a hand on the shoulder or a you know, this is literally good for our not just of course it's good for your mental health. But people don't understand.
It affects your immune system, it affects your cellular health, It affects your nervous system, it affects fucking it affects your longevity. Like you think about if somebody has ticked all the other boxes hypothetically, so food, exercise, lifestyle, blah blah blah, booze, cigarettes, whatever, and they're doing all the things right, but they're living at home alone. They're isolated. Nobody rings them, nobody reaches out to them, nobody's kind
to them, or nobody takes an interest in them. That's probably almost the biggest detriment they could have to their physical health. Right. And I feel like at the moment, we're just throwing so much hate and heat. Not you and me, but just so much hate and heat as a group of humans. But what fucking point.
Like, isn't that interesting? That the thing if we did like just this like root cause analysis, and we just pursued the quest of why as deep as we can go with somebody at the end of it, what most people want, what all of us want, is to be loved and to love somebody else. And I think so much of the vitriol that we have, and so much of what seems like people ah, that person's a narcissist. Maybe maybe they just feel really unloved and disconnected from love.
And then you go out and you engage in things that push you further away from it. It's a thing we don't even talk about. Like could you imagine like somebody rocks up to the office on a Monday morning and starts walking around talking about love in the office all day, Like you're gonna land yourself in hr people
are gonna feel very uncomfortable round here. Meanwhile, Like, like any time I have been in a position and we discussed this on a podcast, like sometimes there was there needed to be more of an internal compass and frame of reference where I needed to be the source of what I wanted more than being attached to it. Externally, But any any team I've been on where you look back,
it's like, wow, we did some great things. Not only did we do some great things and were accomplish things that were worth achieving, but the experience, yeah, was so exhilarating and energizing, not in spite of but sometimes because of the effort and the challenges that came with it. At the root of it was love. We loved what we were doing, and we loved one another, and we weren't too uncomfortable to express that. It's almost like it, oh, we don't want to talk about love because you know
we're serious in this business. We're serious on this team.
You can't do that. It's isn't it Isn't it silly? Like just how we've created these cultures and environments, and of course you know we've got to it's got to be boundaries and all of that. I get it, But it's like when you listen to people talk. So many people talk like every second person at their work allegedly is a narcissist. Everyone my boss is a narcissist, a manager,
socio like really everyone. I just feel like these labels get handed out to anyone who doesn't agree with you, like anyone who's anyone who ruffles your feathers is a psychopath or a sociopath, or a narcissist, or an ego maniac or a come on, dude.
When you factor in statistically how many people actually fall into having an antisocial personality disorder if you are surrounded constantly by narcissists and sociopaths, Yeah, either you might be part of the problem or you have run into an extraordinary stroke of bad luck. I mean, just the probability that's that's that's insane. Like the opposite of that would be I bought five lottery tickets this week, one every single time. Like on the opposite end of that, that's
the type of of probability you're dealing with. Everyone you run into that doesn't happen to see the world the way you see it. Something's fundamentally wrong with them, or they're a narcissist. I you know, I think maybe sometimes it's it's very hard to connect to these expressions and the manifestation of these sentiments and behaviors, you know, especially when you get there's there's so much risk there, you know, I mean, we're talking about like love at the office.
And you know, I would never I would never say oh at the office, like I love you again, because I've been told to stop doing that. But but but but but I'm reception. But I but I love you. Why Why can't I Why can't I say that? Well? You can, but I'm your boss and you're supposed to be in the middle of a presentation and the entire board is waiting, and you're making us all very uncomfortable.
Yeah, and and please don't follow me into the lady's room again.
Hey, hey, over the line, over the line. So I think sometimes it's sometimes it's easier to kind of frame it. And and I'll bring out I'll bring Albert Bandura into this, because what he was amazing at doing was getting.
Just who is he before you tell us like, who is he?
Oh, he's He's one of the most celebrated figures in psychology. And he is the founder was he's no longer with us. He was the founder of social cognitive theory and one of the most widely quoted experts in his field bar none. And what he was able to do is get people to engage in behaviors that they never thought in a million years they would engage in Like if I have a debilitating snake phobia so bad that I don't even
have to see a snake. All I have to do is think about a snake, and I lose the ability to function in the outside world. That's the extent of my phobia. And I would go see you know, a but Bendura like with within a certain amount of time, he'd have me like wrapped in a snake, like holding
onto a snake. So engaging in those behaviors and there's certain steps I think that kind of guide us toward because if we if we don't feel particularly kind because we hate everybody and everywhere we look, people irritate us. And don't get me wrong, that's me like three out of seven days in the week, probably four.
So that's not true. You know, that's not true.
I sometimes I'm just somebody asked me on another show. They're like, what do you love and hate the most? Like, what do you love the most? What do you hate the most?
Yeah, it's like people.
So sometimes when you don't feel that way, but if you're constantly engaging in acts of kindness, eventually you're gonna see yourself as a kind person, especially since if you're engaging in, like deliberate, intentional acts of kindness, you're gonna get a response that rewards that, and in some cases immediately, not from everybody. Sometimes you'll lead with kindness and you'll get a response that actually lowers your faith in humanity.
But more often than not, you're going to start to get these interactions and these connections that never would have taken place if you didn't initiate it. I think a place to start if someone's like, I'm so stressed out, I feel so overwhelmed, Like what do I do well? The connection with other people and a sense of purpose is a really good place to start for the vast
majority of us. And almost imagine, don't don't go out and do anything, but just imagine what would I like, not life to be like, but what would I want life to feel like? What would be that experience? What would be the emotions the feelings that I get to engage in most of the time, like more often than not. And I think the next step would be, you know, if I were going to live out a value that I have a great place to go. If you're not sure what your values are? Is v I a values
in action? So v I a character dot org. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's that's the right website. And you go through and it's a it's it's a survey by doctor Morton Seligman, and it'll kind of help you navigate through what your highest values are. There's a free version
of the survey that's extremely useful on that site. And almost imagine if I were to express my highest value generously, whether it's level of learning, whether it's kindness or honesty, and how would I use that to connect with people, try to understand people? Why would I do that? What might be a couple of reasons? You know, what, what might what might happen to my world view? In what ways might I grow and be different from from the way I am today in a way that inspires me?
So that's verbal persuasion. Verbal persuasion is not like when someone else persuades you. It's when you present questions to yourself. A questions are presented to you that causes you engage in the thought process where you go through your own autonomous persuasion. The next is who do I know? Like, who do I know that exhibits these traits that values
these things? What's their experience of life, What can I model and what might be a great way to test this in the world, just in a very small way, like starting tomorrow and just there was an exercise in my coaching sessions where the instructor asked us to identify one being skill. A being skill is not something you're doing, it's who you're being. It could be zested, it could be playfulness, it could be I'm gonna show up, and curiosity. And it created such a compass and a focal point.
But if you're thinking single mindedly about what you're curious about, you're simultaneously not thinking about all the things you're irritated about, or oh my god, do I agree with something that was said to me at breakfast? What value could you lead within the day? And you're gonna fall off and you're gonna catch yourself not doing it, and that's fine,
Just no judgment, just bring yourself back. That kind of gives you a value based compass to guide you lead you the day, mitigate all of the other things that stress you out and piss you off, and connect you to other people, which, as you mentioned, has incredible biochemical consequences for you and that other person. So that might be a kind of cool process someone can utilize.
You know, it's cool. It's www, v I a character, so one kind of word, v I a character dot org. So I get that. I'm having a look at it right now.
Yeah.
Well I'm Bobby. And what I love about like when you have clarity around what your values are or what matters most to you, or it it gives you, It gives you. It then gives you clarity around decision making, opportunity taking or creating. So I got offered yesterday. In fact, what would we say anyway a product to advertise on the show. I'll tell you later. I don't want to get any money in Trouble yesterday, and I had to say no because it doesn't I just don't believe in
this particular product. I don't even like this product. In fact, I dislike this product. And it's you know, it's not easy, but it's clear. It's like, oh, we're going to give you this much and you're going to sell this on the show. I'm like, yeah, I don't even need to
think about it. Thank you for the opportunity. And I know it seems like it fits and you can maybe guess what it is, but I know that it kind of seems like it lives in the Craig Harper health wellness space, but I can't, you know, And I think the beauty of that is when you have when you know what matters to you, or what you stand for or what your values are, then you know, it's almost like some opportunities are not opportunities. They're almost a test
of your character around those values. You know, it's like, oh, this is no, this is not an opportunity. This is a test for you. And I've been tested pretty regularly in that space, and it's it's really and by the way, I've not always passed with flying colors. I've failed many times, of course. But you know, especially when there's a financial incentive to do something that doesn't align with your values, that's kind of where the rubber hits the road.
I think it does give you a sense a clutter. I mean, if there was one plate, I think what constantly comes up for me is this thing about values and thing about meaning as a as a guide. It's not like, oh, I think this is really important. No, I lean in behaviorally to this. Know this is this creates the process by which I live because because nothing else.
I mean, we've got a lot of superstitions in this society, and a lot of it, a lot of it makes sense, Like if you break down, well why do you feel the way you feel or why do you say that, you get thoughtful and intelligent responses. But like culture, and I'm doing work inside my organization with other organizations and it's like, well, what is culture? We define it? But whatever your culture is, it shows it is reflected by and defined by the behaviors that you engage in. That's
the only thing that produces anything. I mean we're talking about, Well, it's the commitments we have. You know, commitment doesn't do anything. I mean, you could get you could get a bunch of blokes on a rugby pitch who who have belief in their abilities and who are one hundred percent committed to winning matches until they actually start doing something like
no points are going to be scored like that. And when you know what your values are, I think it kind of it kind of guides those behaviors in sequence to bring you in a dielection that's that's aligned with who you want to be. And of course, like you said, we all fall short most of the time. Or a lot of the time. But like when you when you fall off, what's the difference between complete frustration and catastrophizing
and just getting back on track. I think it's that clarity, like, oh, I wanted to engage like this, but I did this instead. Oh that's not great. Let me get back on track. I can only get back on track if I know, if I can concern where the track is.
And also that's the that's the healthy line or the healthy difference between you know, self awareness and self loathing. You know, that's the not the ar I'm a fucking idiot. I always do this. I'm like, I'm so out of alignment. I'm you know, it's like, well maybe maybe not, but by the way, you know, let's acknowledge it. What did you do? What should have you done? Okay, you can't undo that now, but what you can do is you can do better, think better, choose better. So let's acknowledge
what we did. That's not great, but let's not backstroke in that for the next fucking year in emotional quicksand let's acknowledge what we need to do, and let's move into that. Let's lean into that, and.
That intrinsic clarity is power. I think it also mitigates a lot of the things that are dividing us in our society where everything's so uncertain. Yeah, intentionally identifying something for yourself and going this, I'm certain in a world that's chaotic and constantly changing for now, I declare this as unchangeable within me and the way I'm going to engage. I think that builds a lot of resilience, or it gives us tools to be more resilient.
And I think the beauty of identifying, like what matters to you and your values and your beliefs, and is it you know you're in charge of That doesn't mean you can You're never going to be wrong. But yeah, The Self Help Project is Bobby's podcast. The Youth Project is my podcast.
Well, it's the antidote. You have a project, I have an antidote.
What did I say? Did I say?
With self? The self help Project?
Sorry, dude, why did I even say that? The self help antidote? Apology?
Well, you do about twelve podcasts you and I.
I think I even helped you name that. I should probably remember it.
You did help me name it.
Yeah, anyway, tell people how to connect with you?
Buddy, Yeah, your self help antidote not a project, but I mean we might do a project. I don't know anyway, So yeah, self help antidote dot com, Robertobuccio dot com, come see me on LinkedIn.
Thanks mate, Thank you, Craig so you. We'll say goodbye here, but thanks again, buddy.
Thanks everyone,