I'll get a welcome to another and storm on the show. There's a lot of we probably should have started this five minutes ago, because last five minutes have been wildly inappropriate, moderately entertaining, and pretty fucking funny, and Tiff and Jody leading the funny charge. We'll start with curly hair Hi, Tiff, Hi, curly soon yes? And Dr Jody Hi, doc.
Hey tif we were just let's continue because I think this is interesting.
Well, not the part exactly where we left off.
Not not that bit because that would although you did mention some I mentioned a thing that I imagine would be excruciating and that some people might like that. Anyway, we're talking about how painful well a PhD is, But I guess it's not. It's all relative, isn't it. But and how many people say did they say the same to you, Jody? Like you enjoying it? Is it fun?
Are you? You know? Because I get a bit of that, and you don't want to be negative, but it's like, I'm glad I'm doing it, and it's worthwhile and it's it's kind of rewarding, kind of not but but it's certainly not enjoyable, not for most people anyway, is it.
Look, it's it is just relentless hard work, disappointment, starting over, rethinking. And I did it full time, so it was a little bit different. So I was only really surrounded by other people who were.
Doing similar things.
And nobody was asking anybody if they're enjoying it because they kind of knew the answer. But a lot of tears just you for me, I don't know about you, and just kind of expectations and uncertainty, and yeah, that's it's.
It's hard.
It's a hard, hard road and that what that's what makes it so sweet when you get there.
But it's it's a lot of hard work ups.
So yeah, and if you've decided it's probably not a route you're going to take. No.
I sometimes I think, gee, I should get smarter and I should study something, and then I look over my shoulder at you and.
Go fuck that.
But as I said to you before we started rolling, like I mean, I don't mean this to sound offensive to academics, because some academics are brilliant and beautiful and amazing, But getting a PhD doesn't mean you're smart necessarily. I think it depends how you define smart, and you know
the context. And like I've spoken many times about the Crab, my training partner who finished school I think year ten or eleven, and I reckon in about ninety seven out of one hundred situations, the crab is smarter than me. You know, he's smart. He's just practically smart, you know. And he can just figure shit out that I can't figure out. You know. It's like intelligence is really fluid,
it's dynamic. It's not like if you've got a kind of social and emotional and situational intelligence that you can't even teach people like your ability to do to and I'm not trying to piss in your pocket, but to start a podcast from scratch, and I mean this respectfully, with no profile, nobody knew who the fuck you were. You taught yourself how to be a podcaster, how to produce, how to edit, how to do all the video stuff, all the audio stuff, how to do the pr stuff,
how to build a brand. You didn't have a cheer squad, you didn't have anyone helping you. Now, I don't know, Bullpark a thousand episodes in, you've got sponsors, You're on Nova. Like that takes not only does that take talent and creativity. But that's a kind of intelligence that a lot of people don't have and will never have.
It's really interesting, as you know, I'm doing a course at the moment, and we're like feeling how I feel. Sometimes I've been challenged think differently, or processed inly or categorize my thoughts, and I just get these moments where I would reflect back to school and go, well, I just wouldn't. I would just turf that subject. I would either do it or I wouldn't back then. And if I was back then right now, not paying for this course, in this thing I want to do, I just wouldn't
do it. But I'm stuck in this space of like, well, you have to suck it up and you have to find a way if.
Yeah, and you're doing it. You know, I think like I think when we talk in our culture about our society about intelligence, we're talking about a specific kind of cognitive capacity or intellectual capacity, which is, oh, she's good at school, she's getting marks, she's she's scored one hundred and thirty five, she's borderline mensa, she's on an IQ test. You know. It's like, and that's not to say they're not smart. It's to say that by using this protocol
or this measure or this metric, they score highly. Now if we use another metric, they won't score highly. But you're still not going to say they're stupid, do you know what I mean? Like, I know lots of academics who would have I'm sure they would have an IQ somewhere around one point, which is very, very high. But you throw them a ball that hits them in the face, you give them a crying baby. They don't know what
the fuck to do. You tell them, you go, just stand in front of this group and keep everyone entertained for four minutes. I'll be back. They capitulate, you know, they build a business, they don't know where to start. You say, solve this kind of problem. They don't know how to. And it's not that they're dumb. It's just that intelligence is quite often situation and task and context dependent, I think, doctor Jody, I agree.
And it's if you care enough about something and you're willing to learn and be a beginner and start at the beginning and develop the skills and feel a bit, you know, stupid. Sometimes it's a very uncomfortable place to sit between kind of the I'm here and I want to be there, and I'm in this middle. But I really think that when you're passionate about something, you've got the perseverance that you know, your book smarts aren't as important. It's okay, how willing are you to learn? How hard
are you going to work for it? How much do you want it.
That you know?
I always look at my brother and me, and and now I'm questioning was it my brother? And I know it's my brother and me myself, I don't know. Grammar's not my I mean, I've written two books. Grammar should be my strength. I overthink that anyway.
Getting back to it, I.
Love watching you go down the rabbit hole at your own.
My brother Adam is like highly intelligent, like PhD, two masters, physics, maths, finance, analytics, all that kind of stuff, and it always seemed so easy for him. I always did well at school, but I always worked really really.
Hard to do well.
And I think to what you were saying Craig before, about you know, we have strengths in different areas of our life. I mean, I was book smart, but I wasn't street smart. I could walk into a social setting, though, and be very, very comfortable and have those kind of that social intelligence, and not everybody you know has that, and that's something that other people have to work harder towards.
So we've all got our strengths, we've all got our weaknesses, and I really believe we can improve where we want to put the effort in.
Yeah. I think also we confuse acquiring knowledge with becoming smarter. So I just no more like, I've acquired lots of knowledge in the last five and a half years, but I'm not smarter. Inherently smarter. I don't have a higher IQ. I'm not innately more clever or more intelligent than I was in twenty nineteen when I started. I would suspect I probably test exactly the same if we were going to test my IQ. But I have acquired knowledge now. The thing is that anyone can acquire knowledge. If you
want to acquire you can figure out. Like people think I'm being disingenuous when I say you don't need to be a genius to do a PhD. You need to be you need to have some intelligence, but you need to have clarity and a work ethic, and you need to be able to ask good questions. Learn new things, you need to be very organized, very structured, very accountabile, accountable. But do you need to be a genius. You definitely don't.
And then there are other people who would have a much higher IQ than me who are definitely not suited to doing academia.
What's they're smart?
What's the trait that is crucial for someone doing a PhD that someone just learning existing knowledge doesn't need?
Uh say that again?
What's the what is the trait or traits?
Yeah? So I think because like when you're just freestyling like you and you're learning shit that you're interested in, I mean, you are doing a course at the moment, which is structured, which is good. But when you're doing a PhD within you know, a very structured organization, and there are rules and there are protocols, there's accountability, and you have to write a certain way and present you know, like all of the things. There are milestones that I
need to achieve. And so there's very little flexibility within that model of learning, very little flexibility. There's some, but not a lot. And also you essentially have academic bosses who go, no, don't do that, do this, which academic supervisors and thank God for them, because in this environment, with this task, you know, they're infinitely smarter than me,
and so I need them. But I think the beauty of instinctive, intuitive, curiosity driven learning is that you can go, you know what, I want to learn how to fucking build a bamboo hut today, and you can know in
a day and you can start building tomorrow. Or you can go, I want to understan what the like I read this thing yesterday or I came across this thing and that said, you know how, we talk about the mind of consciousness and awareness and the conscious mind the subconscious mind, and it suggested that maybe consciousness doesn't live in the mind, but rather consciousness lives outside the mind, and it's there for us to access whenever we want. I'm like, oh, fuck, I've got to open that door.
I don't have time this week. But I'm like, like, so, it's not the consciousness. It's not that I'm becoming conscious, It's that I have the ability. And this is in the spiritual space to access consciousness, which is a kind of intelligence and an awareness and a knowing and a whatever wisdom that exists despite me and apart from me, and maybe all of us humans have the ability to tap into that if we are in the right place.
And I'm like, so, for example, with that which I got nothing to do with my PhD, I literally took a screenshot of that and I went on the weekend, I'm going to go down this rabbit hole. I don't
have time today, and that's what I do. And I've spent most of my life learning intuitively and instinctively, driven by curiosity, not I need to have a bit of paper, you know, And I think I think on a practical level, for what you want to do, be, create, achieve tif I don't know, Like, if you wanted to do it, I think that would be great. But I don't think you need it. I don't think you I don't think
I don't especially now, I don't think most people. Of course, there are some professions, of course, but I think for a lot of professions and a lot of people, you don't need a degree anymore. You know, you don't need it. You know. If you're going to be a neurosurgeon, probably good, you know, you know, or you're going to be a physicist or something, probably good. But you know, like I think that, yeah, Jode, I feel like I've hijacked your show.
Oh my gosh, you has like what's going on?
Sorry, we want dealing go on. When you're dealing with people, though, a lot of what you deal with it's not anything you learned at UNI, right, it's all just intuitive, instinctive, experiential.
Oh so much. And it's so interesting.
Somebody wrote on my LinkedIn the other day when I connected with and They're like, oh, You've got an interesting mix of kind of skills and experience you bring to your role.
And I'm like, yep, I do. Yeah, so true.
And I guess when I look at what I do now versus kind of where I started, there's so much crossover. Like there's a lot of crossover from the point of view that I'm still and forever will be an educator at heart, Like I love empowering people with knowledge but also helping them to do something with it. But yeah, in terms of kind of like content knowledge other than learning about the nervous system. When I did my undergraduate degree, my honors and my PhD were in a separate realm
of science to the area that I work in. But it feels like this daisy chain of kind of learning and experiences and skills that have all blended to bring me kind of to where I am.
And I didn't love everything I did.
I like most people, and you know, certainly when I was doing my PhD. I mean there were times I've never been this sort of student. But there are times when I'd literally fold my arms on my desk and put my head down and have a little nap.
My head was just bursting with.
Journal articles and ideas and just overload and overwhelmed.
And but yeah, I think.
The skills that you learn and what you learn about yourself and how that brings you closer to knowing what your purpose is and what you know really lights you up, and how you can help others.
Nothing. I don't believe anything's ever wasted.
Did either of you have a teacher at school that you fucking loved? Jody? Who was yours? Tiff, you tell me in a minute, Jodi who was yours?
And why I loved mister Dixon, not from any other for any other reason, from academic standing. So Paul Dixon was our chemistry teacher in year twelve, and I did science. I did physics and kim and pe and English and maths. And by contrast, my physics teacher was really really smart, you know, classic case of totally book smart. Couldn't really convey what he wanted to convey through his classes, but mister Dixon just made it so interesting and we just
felt so supported comfortable asking questions. When I was at UNI doing chemistry, Peter and my husband and his mates at the back and they called me question girl.
That was my nickname.
Wow.
But yeah, he was just so inspiring and just I understood it because of the way he taught. He was young, he was new to teaching. He was really passionate, and it inspired me to go off and major in it with my university studies.
So, yeah, he was awesome.
I got to see him when I was down presenting at a school in Tasmania. He came along to listen, so it was nice to reconnect.
Isn't it interesting? So he was inspirational, you liked him. There was a connection. Like all of the things that made him or most of the things that made him a great teacher, had nothing to do with which course he did, which university went to, what Mark's he got. It was all about him as a human, right.
Yeah, that's it.
That's it. That's what people.
Tiff my homeroom teacher from year seventy, year ten, missus McCullough. And she's still on my Facebook and comments every now and then.
And I love that. I mayne when you realize, when you're.
Grown up, oh, those teachers they're human.
People.
They have feelings and lives and they're the same as every one else.
Yeah.
Oh my gosh, it's such a revelation.
I used to I had this teacher in year eight called mister Ryan, and I've spoken about him a few times. Fuck, I love this man. And you know, we all our teachers were like, you know, they were fine. But it was a pretty strict school. It was an all boys school. We had to wear full on uniforms, blazer's jacket shirts, ties, we had uniform inspections, we had you had to have polished shoes. It was a little bit not totally, but a tiny bit military compared to what we have now.
It was like very military. But so mister Ryan was a police officer and he got shot in a leg. And because year eight boys are not that compassionate, we used to call him the dark because he walked like a duck, right, because he'd been shot like so much compassion. But he was such a good human being. And if I was mucking around, which was you know, every day, and he'd walk up and he'd just look in my face and you go, harper. I go, yes, sir, he don't be a dickhead. I go, yes, sir.
Right.
But I loved it that he said to me, don't be a dickhead, like because I was being a dickhead. He knew how to connect to me and he's like, you're being a dickhead, aren't you. I go I am. He goes, don't be a dickhead. I'm like, yes, sir.
That was it.
And he would just you know, he'd lean in and he'd say things, but he actually really cared about It's all boys, right, He really cared about all of us. And he was probably the least experienced teacher. I think he was like one. So he got injured, then he retrained as a teacher and he was probably first or second year. But he was a man's man, right, So there was no bookshit, there was no fluffy anything. But I look back at him and I think, why did
he have an impact on me? And it was more about just how he treated me as a human it wasn't like, oh, he was just the most brilliant academic, or he was this or that. You know. And one of the funny things is or one of the things that maybe people don't think about like companies now when they're because I talk to lots of bosses, lots of leaders managers in the corporate space, and I ask them, what, like, when you're bringing people on board, what do you want?
And of course they want skills and squat quals and experience, but more and more they want social intelligence. They want emotional intelligence, and they want a thing called a which some people call a Q, which is adaptability quotient, so your ability to adapt right, So social intelligence, emotional intelligence, and an ability to be able to be fluid and adaptable in a business or an organization or a team
that's dynamic, which is all businesses and organizations. And you know, if you come in and you can only do things one way, you're in trouble, you know. So it's you know, intelligence is fluid, performance is fluid. You know, it's situation and context dependent. I think doc oh totally.
And you know, when it comes to anxiety and talking to parents about anxious kids and when parents and kids show up to a therapy session and the parents feel like, well, you know, I really want I would really love the outcome of this to be that my child will do a B or C. And the child is not interested in a B or C. Then there's no willingness. There's no willingness. There, there's no buying, there's no skin in the game, there's no interest.
So they might be well and truly able to do D, E, and F.
And so I think, you know, it's ultimately when we passionate about something and you know, like you can learn the knowledge, and like you said beforehaps so readily available for us. You can learn anything that you would learn in a degree online, you know, with access to information
the way we have it. But you know, when it comes to a job, having those things that you said before, I know employees people, and I have friends that employ people, and you just know that the things they're looking for is how is this person going to fit in the workplace? You know, do they have whatever they need to kind of tick the boxes, but anything else they haven't quite gotten.
The skills department they can learn, but you can't teach somebody to be socially and emotionally intelligent quickly, and that's not really the job of a workplace. So yeah, I think I think it's I don't think we should really be you know, I don't say to my kids you're.
Smart or you're not, or you know.
I love to talk to people about their capacity for learning, and that's really we've all got that, And I think it's a real closed door if somebody and when somebody does believe.
They're smart or not.
We know this in kids, when they get an idea in their mind that oh, I'm not good at maths, I'm not smart at mass then that becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for them with their academics. And so that's that coming around to that growth mindset that I have the capacity to learn when I apply myself, but we don't want to apply ourself to stuff we're not interested in.
I think that's got to really play into it.
When parents come along to you with their anxious kids and they have certain expectations of how they want the kids to be and what they want the kids to be interested in and doing, do you ever think, uh, actually don't think they're that's the right way to think about, Like, do you sometimes have to work first on the parent and then the kid.
I think that when it comes to anxious kids, it's the very best place to start because often anxious kids are in families with anxious parents. And what we need is first of all, parents who can look after themselves and settle their own stress and anxiety, because when you've got a child that's struggling, it's very, very stressful, and then it's easy to get kind of the blinkers on and become have a very narrow view about what success
could look like. So yeah, working with parents like this, so much actual research and science to show that there are a lot of things parents can do about the way that they approach situations and support what they say, what they do and don't do, what they allow and don't allow that can be transformative for children's anxiety when the child is not even involved in any of the change, not directly anyway.
One of the things that I was I don't know if it's fortunate enough is the right term, but to observe, you know, owning gyms for a long time is we would have you know, parents come in and train with me and my team, right, and we had I mean thousands of clients over the years, thousands and hundreds of trainers, so there's a lot of people through the doors over a long period of time. And what we would see
is generational training. So we'd often see grandma and the daughter and the granddaughter in the same joint.
Right.
Sometimes training, you know, awesome, But what I saw many times was mum or dad who would have certain psychological or emotional issues, right, and then on meet the kid and I'd go, oh, I know why you are the way you are because mom or dad. It's like, I think, ironically, sometimes the source of anxiety for the kid is the fucking parent.
Look, it's so contagious.
It is like we it's palpable sometimes and even like my daughter's home this afternoon, she's not feeling well. But the other day I came in and I jam packed too much in the day, and I had twenty minutes at home before I was going out for dinner with friends, and I had a lot to try to accomplish in that time, and.
I asked her to help, and.
She just said, hey, Mum, you making me stressed because you're so stressed. And it was so good that she was able to say that and I was like, I know, actually, yes, let me just stop for a minute.
And you know, I just owned it.
I was like, absolutely, but this is how I'm feeling, this is why, this is what will help.
But she just picked it up and called it.
And I don't think often when we're feeling that way, we're so inwardly focused about what our needs are and what we're trying to do or what we haven't got done, that we forget how impactful our nervous system state is on those people in our home roops. You know, I grew up in a home with a mom with an undiagnosed anxiety disorder, and I walked on eggshells. I was
anxious about, you know, doing the wrong thing. And so even though I had the genetic predisposition for it, and there were other triggers in my life that kind of set me down the road to my own anxiety disorder. That that, you know, that was that was tough. But the parents aren't causing the anxiety disorders in their children. But we've got a really powerful role that we can play by taking really good care of ourselves and helping our children learn to regulate. That's how kids learn to
regulate themselves is through a regulated parent. Unfortunately, there's a lot of stress people at the moment for lots of different reasons. So it's not it's not easy, but it's important to know that we can make a powerful difference if we if we if we can regularly kind of settle our nervous system and you know, show up in our homes a little bit less fired up than we might usually do.
Without mentioning what they may or may not be, if there are any are there certain things that are more likely to trigger you, like you know, specific events happening, things that like when that happens you you can momentarily lose your shit.
Yeah, totally. And I'm so happy to say, like one of the things.
Like from little things like metal on metal, well really activate my nervous system. And so if there happens to be a fork stuck in a knife, you know that, or somebody is cutting on something metal, that will really grape me.
But that's just very temporary.
If I ever feel like it's so interesting because you know, the brain, the part of the brain that detects threat is hyper sensitive in people with an anxiety disorder. And so if I find myself in a space where I not from a conscious point of view, but I could be almost trapped. For example, like you won't find me going.
I don't know.
Just sometimes if I'm in a particular room I don't know, like and there's a lot of people in there, I don't know, it will just be triggering for me because my brain is probably thinking, well, how do you get out, like if something goes wrong. It's just always trying to protect me and other things that cause me a lot of anxieties.
Just when.
I am finding that I've got too many competing priorities and I'm so much better at managing it now, and I'm just like, right, what is most important? I know how to recognize it. I'll ground myself if I don't alcohol anymore because that would cause anxiety. And if I do not sleep well, I need I need to really prioritize my sleep. Then that that can make me so much more sensitive. Some might say grumpy and irritable as well.
Oh that's funny, that's funny. I was just trying to find something which I'm not doing a very good job of about. Do you remember that story, Jody You're talking about, you know the part of the brain. You're talking about the amigdala, right, yep. That the there's an article called The Woman Who Forgot to be Afraid and anyway she
had basically she never got scared, like ever of anything. Yeah, like she she she literally had no fear response because for one of a more uh clinically correct term, her amigdala was broken, you know, epicenter of the brain. And yes, so she used to be in all kinds of precarious situations. And there was a story about how she was a nurse, right, yeah, and the quickest route between where she worked and her house was a cemetery, so she would walk in the
middle of the night through this cemetery. And one guy one night, this guy confronted her to attack her, assault her, whatever, and she just laughed at him and told him to stop being an idiot. And she had no like, you know, she knew what. I don't know if she knew what was going on, but she had and she was so not scared that it freaked him out and he ran away. I love that. I love that. But I think we need I think we need a few response to keep us functional and safe for the most week we do.
We so do.
And one of the things Craig that worries me about us as we and I, you know, I'm obviously in this boat, is we feel anxiety about things that aren't life threatening, aren't actually going to endanger us, which is dare I say, pretty much all of the time, the anxiety that we're feeling is related to something that is not going to, you know, cause our demise, and we I say, we generalizing, But a lot of people will
step back. It's like I don't like the feeling. It's I can't stand feeling like this, so I'll step back, and there's that avoidance. I'll say no to the invitation, I'll say no to the opportunity. I won't do the thing that I'm being asked to do if there's a choice.
But for a lot of women, when we do have that part of our brain recognize that there's a threat, and there is a genuine threat, we often override that gut feeling that response that this is dangerous and we tell ourselves, oh, most people are okay, I'm sure I'm just overreacting. And that can be problematic obviously in terms
of our safety. And so I think it's really interesting to know that this part of the brain that keeps us safe plays a very important role, and we do need to be listening, but we just need to be able to tell the difference and also know if we do feel like we are vulnerable or we just get that off feeling.
We've got to listen because there's a lot of.
Times and yeah, you know, women will hear something, see something, notice something, just have that feeling that something's off or.
Just brush it off. And sometimes you brush it off and you'll be okay. Other times you might and you won't be.
So it pays just to start to listen a little bit closely, I think, a little bit more closely.
Yeah, it's an interesting I mean, I'm not a woman. Probably none of you pick that, but just clarifying for anyone who's wondering. But I have an interesting thing the other night which I haven't told anybody about, and it was probably nothing, but I put up I don't know if you saw. I put up the thing about going to
Catman Do the other night to buy a bloody flannel shirt. Anyway, and I was so I was in this part of Southland which is kind of out of the way a little bit, and it was lateish, it was like thirty, and I went, I needed we you welcome everyone. I needed a week, or as I call it, a slash.
I needed a slash. And so I went down this weird, little quiet section and there were toilets there, and as I went to I was walking down a little corridor towards the toilet and these two dodgy looking blokes were walking out and they saw me and they turned around and walked back in, and I went, ah. And I was wearing my headphones, which are expensive headphones, and I was carrying some shit I bought, and I had my iPhone and I just went, nah, are we somewhere else?
I just did it one eighty because I'm like, it is weird that they're coming out and then they see me and they turn back and walk back in.
Yeah.
And I thought, on the off chance that they think he's an old guy, that we might roll for all of shit. So you know, maybe nothing, maybe something, but better off safe.
Than sorry totally.
And you know, so it is I think there is that Yeah, I don't know. I think there's that intuitive instinctive men and women, and you know, yeah, I think we need to pay attention. Having said that that very world famous philosopher Tom Cruise. He said the other night in an interview which I really liked. He said, don't
be afraid to be afraid. I like that. I like where I like sometimes I mean, obviously there's fear that's giving us a message, hey, stay the fuck away, and then there's some fear which is like, look, I'm uncomfortable. This is a bit scary, but I probably need to open this door because this is how I grow, learn, evolve, adapt Yeah, And being being fearful is not weak or bad. It's kind of human. Yeah, and sometimes some not all the times, because that's the that's where the wisdom bit
comes in. But I mean, I honestly have learnt the most when I've been scared, like doing shit that scares me I'm uncomfortable in. So I think it's just differentiating between you know, what door to open and what door to leaves shut, and when to turn around and say I'm going to wear you somewhere.
Else totally totally, And I know, like I know, like.
There's some things like I think about like the trapeze, Like I've always wanted to do a lesson on the trapeze, just not to be a circus performer, just to try it and just experience that what it's like. And had a voutch you a long time ago, and I let it lapse because I was too anxious to try it, and like, that's not everyone's cup of tea. But sometimes taking that first step, it's got to be small enough.
That you can move forward.
It doesn't like we've all got things that we would like to try. I just think that you've got to break it down, Like if the first step is feeling too overwhelming, they just try to find a way to make that.
First step a little bit easier. Because I just feel really.
Passionate about us all getting to the end of our days and taking that final breath and sort of feeling like, you know, I didn't let that anxiety stop me from doing the things that you know, I really would have liked to have tried. Yeah, So I keep thinking about the trapeze and one day I'll jump on here and I'll say I did it.
I mean, I don't feel as anxious about it now. I just need to organize it.
But I reckon you should. I reckon you should book it, and Tiff and I'll come along and cheer you on.
Oh my gosh, that would be so fun. That would be so fun. Would you do it?
About one hundred amazing? You book it. I can't speak for tip, but I'll come and cheer you on.
What do you reckon to hear?
I'm there?
Okay, let's do it.
Okay, hey not, let's do it. You do it. I didn't say I'm going to get on the fucking trapeze. I said I'm going to check you one.
Oh that's what I said. Okay, I thought that's what you meant.
All right, Okay, let's tell you what if you get on the trapeze. I'm not worried about getting on the trapeze in terms of falling and killing myself. I'm worried about my sixty one year old shoulders. That's what I'm worried about. But if you do it, if you do it, I'll do it.
I don't want to be responsible for anything happening to your shoulders, so I'm happy if you just cheer me.
You can decide later.
Well, the bloker's got a torn left rotator cuff. Probably shouldn't take up circus hearts.
Probably not. That ship has sailed.
Probably, How do you know, Okay, this is forther of you. We're talking about fear, and we're talking about which daughter open and which door to leave shut. And we're talking about some fear as a you know, some fear is a very valuable kind of warning system, right, and then other fear is almost like a psychological prison. How do you anxiety coin? How do we differentiate? I mean, I know there's no three step answer to that, but what
are your thoughts, like, what is the fear? How do I know what fear I should lean into and what fear I should take as some kind of insight that's giving me a warning.
It's so hard because when we are activated in the moment, it's near.
Impossible to think clearly.
Of course, because as we've said before, the part of the brain that enables us to make good decisions is unavailable temporarily. And so part of it is about like a lot of us do a lot of the same things each day. So part of it is like well, knowing your circumstances and giving things a little forethought, like maybe don't walk through a dark cemetery, assuming that you have a MiG delivered a functioning and you know instinctively you know, we instinctively we fight or flee, so our
instinctive response is to not go forward. Okay, so let's just start with that. And so if we are in danger, we hope that that kicks in and most of us are going to want to run like the wind rather than stay and fight. So I think then when we look at well, what are the things that anxiety will say, don't do it?
Don't go to.
That party, don't accept that invitation, you know, don't change jobs even though you hate the one you're in, because oh you'll have to start, you know, all of the things that anxiety will say not to do. Don't book that holiday because you've never been there before.
Whatever. It is the start to sort of look for.
Those patterns of what where do you avoid things in life?
And that way you kind.
Of like sort of you can see and you know yourself well enough in the moment.
What helps is if you.
Have practiced mindfulness, if you're a meditator or you practice mindfulness regularly, that can reduce the sensitivity of that alarm system. It reduces the size of the amygdala, and it can buy you a little bit a little bit of space and a little bit of time. To be able to make a decision, especially if you can see the anxiety building, you can feel it building, and you know what the signs are that this is coming for you. So I'll recognize my breathing changes. Other people will go I feel sick.
Other people will like I start trembling. So if you can see it coming, that's really powerful too, because you're like, Okay, I know what's happening.
What do I do next?
I have this little I didn't invent this, I'm sure, but if I'm scared about something, apprehensive, nervous, anxious, something I want to do, I think, what's the worst that can happen?
Yeah?
What I do? I go, what's the worst that can happen? And then I put myself in that?
Yeah?
And I go, can I cope with that? I go, yeah, I won't like it, but it's not going to kill me. And I might be embarrassed or humiliated or fucking terrified or but I think, yeah, I do that, and so I feel like, well, it's probably not going to be that, but the worst outcome could be I forget what I'm saying, people laugh at me, and I get booed off stage. You know, I don't want that, But I mean, in some alternate, fucking horrible reality, could that. Yet it could?
And you go, is that would be horrible? But will it kill me?
No?
So I kind of go, you know, And that's the I think you've got to weigh it up as you go too, because also, I mean, as you said, you don't want to get to the end of the journey and go fuck. I wish I had have done this. I wish I had had taken more chances. I wish
I didn't let fear run my life, you know. I wish I wasn't a prisoner of my own fucking self defeating thoughts by limiting thinking like, you know, because hey, we're all scared, fucking apart from the lady in the cemetery, you know, everyone has everyone has fear, everyone has anxiety, everyone has self doubt, everyone overthinks, you know. I mean, these are just human commonalities. This is not weakness, This
is not you being bad or flawed. I think it's just how we navigate life with all of those things. And this is not the right term, but the amount of power or influence we let those things have over us.
Yeah, yeah, it's so wise.
Perhaps it really is, and it can have enormous power over us. It can make life so small. And you know, you hear of people who haven't left their homes for years and that didn't happen overnight. That started with saying no to something and not not not doing one particular, you know, saying, you know, going to a party, or you know, if people are socially anxious, which is obviously a huge fear of embarrassing yourself and saying the wrong thing.
And I mean, I must admit I'm thinking back to the start of the episode where I stuffed up my grammar. I'm like, okay, but you know what, I'll live with that it doesn't matter and we but it feels like it just feels like for some people that it is like literally it is so going to be so too way, too painful to cope, and that then they say, you know, no to more things, and ultimately they're not even checking
the letterbox. And it just pains me to think about how small people's life sket But I did interview a psychologist who asked a patient of his.
He had a five.
Kilometer radius that he wouldn't travel past, and the psychologist said to him, if your daughter her car broke down and she was stuck in the dark and needed help, and she was, you know, five point five kilometers from your home, because I mean, how arbitrary is five kilometers. You know, what would you do? He said, I'd go straight to her. And that speaks to how important something is for us. You know, if it's important enough, then we get this willingness and this.
I think this in ourselves. We've got enough willingness to.
Be able to cope with the discomfort and the distress that might come with what it's going to take to get to where we need to go. But the hardest thing is the first time. Each time it just gets easier.
And you know, if you start small and you do it regularly enough and you're willing to put yourself out there and experience that discomfort which, like you say, it won't kill you, and have a curiosity about how you feel and why you feel the way you feel, and then retreat and then go out and just you know, a classic kind of just keep making it a little bit harder for yourself. It's so simple, not always easy, but it works.
Yeah, I think it's how much I mean, this is an oversimplification but how much do you want that thing or how important is that thing? You know, because if something is important enough, I mean like fucking life alteringly important, or you know, like your kid or whatever, pretty much do anything even if that thing terrifies you. You know this. I apologize to my listeners who have heard this five times,
but I don't think you've heard it. Jodie. So one of the I'm one of my camps, there was a lady there if you've probably heard this nine times, sorry, and we're talking. So we have one hundred and thirty people at my camps, that's all we fit and we spend two days together. Well this is when we do a camp in a Mantaaliza and we're just I'd finish
speaking and then it was just Q and AM. People were talking about stuff, and this lady was saying, I get it all, and I, you know, like I've done this, I've done that, and like my weakness though, is chocolate, and she goes, I can do I can go for the run, I can do this. I can By the way, I'm not suggesting people should never eat chocolate, but she bought it up and she eats chocolate every day of her life. And probably too much. Yeah, And she goes,
I can't. I can't give up chocolate. She goes, I've tried and tried. I just literally can't give it up. And I said, well, you can, but you won't. And she's like, no, I just can't. She goes, you don't understand, and I go, no, you don't understand. I go, you absolutely can, but you won't. And I said, can I prove it to you? And she said yes, and she I knew she had a dog because she'd spoken about her dog. I said, what's your dog's name? And then she told us the name of the dog, and I said,
let's just go with Fido. I said, what about this? And I said, oh, by the way, how much do you love that dog? And she's like more than my kids?
Right, she loves I like this lady.
Yeah, more than my kids. She's like, that dog is like my life revolves around the dog. You know, I love the dog. And I said what if The next time, I said, I know this is silly, but this is a psychological experiment, right, so obviously this is purely a hypothetical, but I'm trying to prove to you something. Let's say, in an alternate reality. In this reality, your life is identical to how it currently is. Nothing's different except the next time you eat a bit of chocolate, your dog
is going to drop dead. Right the next time you eat a bit of chocolate, dog drops dead and boom. Now we're in that reality. I said, how much chocolate will you eat today? And she goes, none? And I go tomorrow, none, this month, none, as long as the dog's alive. None. And I said, well, you told me you can't. I said, but given the right circumstances or enough psychological or emotional leverage, you just told me you wouldn't eat any Oh, she goes, But that's different. I'm like, yes,
it is different. We're talking about a different situation. But the question was can you yes? And the answer is yes, yes, I will you. So I think so often and that obviously that example is not true for everything, but it's true for many things, like if you really, really, really really fucking want something, find a way, you'll find a way.
It's the urge. That urge feels so powerful. And I mean, I've never smoked, but I mean I can't imagine what it must be like to give up something as.
Addictive as cigarette smoking, you.
Know, but that urge, it's that terrible discomfort of really really, really really wanting something and knowing.
It I can just have it.
It's just literally right there for me and being again willing to go right what I want beyond this decision in this moment is bigger and more powerful and it's worth this pain in the short term. But you know, as we know, and I think we've said before here on the podcast, people can have a terminal diagnosis with their health lung cancer for example, and still not find it within themselves to let go of the thing, the very thing that's you know, telling them behavior. As we know,
it's not easy, but is it's doable. But like it's it's what how how much do you want it?
I suppose at the end of the day.
Yeah. And by the way, when I say this everybody and Jody as well, I'm sure there's no judgment in that. There's just recognition. And I know, like I know someone right now who shouldn't smoke. It's not my parents who shouldn't smoke, and they still smoke, and well they shouldn't smoke in the sense that their body's already in trouble, right, But Also, this is looking through the Craig, the very
judgmental Craig window. So when I go, okay, fuck, what you think, Craig, like, what does it do for them? You know what? It just gives them joy, It gives you enjoy it. By the way, I'm not recommending or endorsing. I'm just going like, remember, seek first to understand when I look at other people's behavior through my window, it is very easy to be judgmental.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
But when people come to me with a question, well then that's a different issue. Yeah, but you know, I think, yeah, I'm with you. It's like it is quizical. But you know, people would look at my behavior or TIFFs or your behavior and go, these three are the biggest fucking weirdos I've ever seen, do you know what I mean?
Yeah, I know I'm.
Compared to the Ambridge bloke my age in Australia. I fully acknowledge I'm a weirdo. Yeah, and I don't think I'm better than anyone. I'm not saying yeah that's because I'm this, It's not. I'm I acknowledge I've got all the fucking issues.
I was having this chat with my dad you know, how's this for. I guess dichotomy might be the right word. Mum's just finishing her second Camino in Spain. Dad's been in hospital for three weeks with a diabetic gal star diabetes, unstable sugars and inactivity. Has just like he's just sending him, you know, to being ultimately unable to walk. And I and I just I just look, I just sort of stand back sometimes and I look at the two parents
of mine and Dad. Dad was going, you're so you and your mother are just you're so weird, like you just you just like you just love your exercise and and and I, you know, because because I just really want him to move more, for so many reasons, for all the reasons, and you know, gosh, you know how much, how many conversations I've had over the years with him, and and it's it's just, you know, it's it's what I don't know, I don't know what I'm trying to say,
but what what we do because we we we found things that we love to do, and we do, you know, put ourselves. You know, we're willing to be uncomfortable and and to sacrifice other things, I suppose for you know, the time to spend exercising, and it's it's I think it all seems out of reach sometimes, but it's it's not as oud as reaches as people might think.
It's just about just getting started.
But I think it just starts with booking the traps. Jody, I don't want to call I don't want to call you on your own lesson. I don't mean to be rude, but TIFF's got a two o'clock and we've and it's three minutes too. Yes, we're going to We're going to wind up. We love you, we love you chatting with us. Can you tell people how they can connect with you? Find your books, find your website, find your podcast, please and thank you.
Oh Craig always enjoy you too, Tiff so awesome. Yes, I have a calm your anxious brain minicurs on my website. So if you want to scroll to the bottom of doctor Jodi Richardson dot com dot are you, you'll find that you can enter your details there and you'll find me if you google me Jody with an eye.
That's it. Well, hallowe Anxiety is a podcast.
Consider yourself, go googled. Well, say goodbye affair. But as always DOC appreciate you, love you, thanks for being part of the You Project family and thanks to you Curly Hatif.
Thanks you Sam.
Bye, everyone,