I got you, Bloody Champions. Welcome back to another installment of your favorite show. And if it isn't, why the fuck isn't it it should be. It's me, Fatty Harps. It is the You Project.
Of course.
It's a Thursday in Melbourne. It's the fifteenth of the fifth I feel like I'm back on radio. I'm sounding very much like a radio announcer at the moment. I'll just do a weather check, a station ID and a time check and then we're doing radio. I've got to stop that bullshit and get back into podcaster mode. Hi, Lucas Radio Show.
Yeah, well, funny, funny to be back again for the third time.
It's nice to see you. I can see you, our listeners can't. But it's nice to connect with you again. And I was just talking. We were just chatting off here about among other things. But like somebody like you who's quite knowledgeable, you know, very knowledgeable in the space that you inhabit, the ever present challenge is trying to share thoughts and ideas and science and research in a way that's really resonant with people who don't do all the research and the science, which is most of us,
and try to make it understandable. Is that when you're coaching people, or when you're doing corporate gigs or health industry gigs or in front of any audience, how much do you have to be mindful of do they fucking understand what I'm saying?
Oh look, I was actually thinking about the way that I when I communicate abstract ideas or any sort of scientific jug and you know what I try and do. The number one thing that I try and do is I try and get them to think about something that they already know and then build upon something that they
already know. I just realized that's probably like my number one skill is when I communicate something like if I'm introducing a sleep supplement to somebody who doesn't know anything about supplements, but they might know a little bit, then I'll lean on the fact that they might know a little bit, and that little bit might be oh, yeah, I've heard that magnesium is good before sleep. So what I'll do when I communicate that, I'm saying, hey, by
the way, this herbal extract works similarly to magnesium. Then their ears perk up. Yeah, Like that's I just realized that's probably my number one skill is being able to like link things. And I also communicate to people. I try and meet them at their level. So like if if their level of knowledge is like quite high or elaborate in a certain area, that I try and like continue that conversation on that level. I feel like that's how I approach it.
Yeah, And I think also, like, if you're talking to people about shit that's relevant to them, like, oh, like how many people have shit sleep? Not just nearly everyone, right, So the moment that you go, let's talk about how to have better shit sleep, everyone pricks there is a bit and says, all right, go on, I'm paying attention because nobody wants less sleep or worse sleep. So I think, yeah,
that that using the language that resonates with them. But also speaking about you know, talking about things which for the average person is if not every day, but semi regularly, it's an issue, you know, like energy is an issue, cognitive function is an issue. You know for half the population, having a dick that works periodically is an issue. Like one of the funniest things. How many times have I seen you talking about icing your balls and the ball
icing protocol? Let's start there. So let's start there. Let's do a deep dive, and keeping in mind that seventy percent of my audience of women, So for the ladies, this probably not that relevant.
Yeah, we can't, can't ask the ovaries unfortunately.
No, it might might be interesting. Nonetheless, So what what's the what's the science behind the icing of one's testicles?
Yeah, so I actually brought this to the forefront probably like four or five years ago, when I was just trying to educate men on what they can do to enhance their fertility and also naturally support their testosterone production. So, you know, Craig, I went down a rabbit hole. I was like, what can I do as a young man to optimize my hormone so that I can sleep, so that I can have more energy, just feel more confident,
have better muscle mass, that sort of stuff. And I realized that most of it all comes down, well, mostly it comes down to optimizing testosterone, the practice of icing the testes. I actually came across on a bodybuilding forum where these guys were chatting about breaking like doing achieving a PB on their strength lifts when they would ic their testes before the lift, and I was like, what
are they talking about? Like these China and even these Chinese and Russian power lifters back in the day used to ice their balls before they'd go out and try and you know, could be what's going on here, like why are they doing this? And I'm like, I looked into the potential mechanism, like what the heck is happening here? Like why does applying ice to a man's testes actually
have a beneficial effect? And then I came across this like actual scientific term called nocturnal scrotal cooling, which is a technique that's used to massively improve fertility and boost sperm count in men. And I conducted an experiment on myself and end of one experiment and I'm like, you
know what, I'm going to do blood tests. I'm going to do a blood test before and after twelve weeks of icing ten to fifteen minutes a day, like typically i'd do it before bed, and I would see whether or not I would actually move the needle in terms of my blood test results, and my testosterone score increased by about twenty percent or so, and I'm like, hang on, I sect there must be something to this, And then I started creating content about it, and then all these
other guys started doing the practice and protocol saying that they felt more energy just waking up with a really hard pock basically. And I'm like, you know what, there's actually legitimate science behind this. These guys have been running experiments, They've done blood work. I've seen their blood work before and after, and it just really helps. So it's a
free practice. It doesn't cost people anything. It's a If guys don't want to jump onto TRT, they might consider doing this in combination with supplements and you know, weightlifting and diet and things like that.
And I will mention everyone that this is not this is not some bullfed who's just been doing pseudoscience. Lucas is an internationally renowned natural path educator. I wrote this for you before Dispenser of Dispenser of pseudoscience, maker of ups and force for good not evil. So that can be your new bio. I like it all right, So everyone's going, I'm sure, so nocturnal scrotal cooling and best name ever, that could be the name of the show.
What how do we what do we have a little eski for our testicles that's as big as a cup? What do we how do we actually do we straddle a bowl, kneeling on the carpet. What do we do?
You know, I've had that many people come in on my videos and mentioning all the weird ways in which they're icing their balls, and I'm just looking at the comments, bean like, some people really just come up with some really interesting ways to keep their test is cool. There's, funnily enough, there's actually some devices that are being developed and invented sort of to help with this. The best thing, well, probably the most easy to implement way would be to
just literally grab you know those like flexible ice packs. Yeah, you just basically or a frozen bag of piece, you play, a frozen p yeah, yeah, yeah, and just whack it up against your underwear and just let it sit there for like ten to fifteen minutes where you're where your test is hanging, and then just let those let those duels cool, and yeah, you reaped it.
Does it hurt? It seems like it's gonna hurt a little if.
You're I mean, if you're applying it up against the underwear, it's usually fine. I tell guys, do not apply the ice up against your direct skin, because then you'll get like skin burn. Yeah, but no, a lot of guys just they initially they get a bit of a ooh, like a bit of a like a jolt, a jult jolting effect. But yeah, I've been researching it a little bit more recently in the last six months, and there's actually a new theory as to how it actually helps
with testosterone. The first one that I that I initially came up with that wasn't actually discussed was the opposite of vasodilation vasoconstriction, So the blood vessels vasoconstrict, and then what happens is when you remove the ice pack, it causes a rebound vasodilation and that brings new blood flow and oxygen delivered to the to the tissue, to the testes.
And that was one of the theories. But actually there's another theory where it's there's like a space in the test is where testosterone gets trapped, and it's yeah, there's a particular area within the test is whether the testosterone actually gets I wouldn't say gets stuck, but like it doesn't actually make its way out of the test is into the bloodstream. So that's a new theory that's relatively sort of popped up. But it's such a such a cool little little hack testosterone.
We'll get ladies, We'll get off testosterone very soon, because although I do want to ask you about ladies and testosterone in a moment, but I was it you I saw on someone's page. I think it was yours saying the average testosterone thirty or forty years ago was five sixty seven or something or that was considered low. What is that nanimals per desoletter? What is that?
I forget, Well that would have been it was five sixty seven nanograms per desoletter, right, and.
That was considered low. And now in twenty twenty five three hundred, so pretty much half of that is considered normal.
Oh it's crazy, Like it depends where you are in the world. In Australia they have a different cutoff reference range. So like the reference range, Yeah, I think it's like one hundred and ninety nanograms per desolator and that goes up to Like the thing is, they've even reduced the upper end of that reference range, so about fifty years ago it actually used to go up to like fourteen hundred,
one thousand, five one thousand, four hundred. And by the way, I rarely see guys that are natural that have testosterone above a thousand. It's very very rare. Even if the guy thinks he's really healthy, thinks that he's like you know, lifting waights, eating while doing all the right things, still like he'd be lucky to get nine hundred and fifty, maybe just scraping a thousand.
And that's someone who's young, super healthy, got good genetics, not smokeing, not you know what I mean. This is a very for you, a very simple question. But and we could talk about this for now, we're not going to. But what are some of the potential consequences of men having low testosterone? I know they're a myriad, and I know there's some very well known ones, but just you know, like just humorous. So there's physiological, emotional, psychological, and cognitive
consequences or potential consequences. Just walk us through a few of those.
Yeah, I mean, I like the mental side the most because you love the mental side as well, because you know that's your sort of background. But for me, it's so profound. When I talk to guys that have low testosterone, there's a very common trait amongst them all, and it's usually that they can't back themselves in making decisions, they
struggle to have that level of like resilience. They're more hesitant, and you see, you can actually see I don't want to Like I was in the gym this morning and I did see a guy that I no offense to him, but I did do a consultation with him, and I know he had low testosterone, and I could see him walking in and I was like, I'm actually going to observe and monitor his behavior when he walks into the gym, And you can almost tell the guys that are like
somewhat hesitant or like you know, they're not really sure where they're going to go. They're sort of like just got their bag on their back and they're just like they're sort of like being the second not the second tier, but just sort of being like a bit of a mickey mouse in the gym. They're not sure, like what are they going to train? They're not going to like
just get after it. Whereas you look at the guys that have high tistosterone, man, they're the ones that just they're not hesitating, they're not thinking twice, they back themselves, They're they're they're confident. That for me is I think I think a guy would would pay anything to have that level of confidence is a huge factor in success in my opinion. If you don't back yourself, you're not
If you don't back yourself, you're not confident. People they can smell it, and they can they can feel it. And it's also it's contagious as well.
It's amazing what an impact our biology has on our psychology. And like you said, and confidence and decision making and action taking and interpreting data like oh fuck, you know, and fear goes up and it's such a I mean, and this really illustrates the point that, you know, nothing really operates in isolation. Like it's an integrated system. It's
the human system. Like we're not a mind or a body, or an endocrime system or a cardiovascular system or a brain, or a job or a bank balance or a you know, we're fucking we're all of it all of the time.
Right, Yeah, it's an integrated system. And if one like sort of pathway is thrown off, then it can have like a downstream effect on different different areas. I was actually sort of thinking as well, in some guys that have high estrogen, because obviously the testosterone estrogen relationship is important to look at and just for the listeners, estrogen, just putting this out there, Men do produce estrogen. This is a normal, healthy hormone that men produce. We also
produce testosterone, just in higher quantities than women. Estrogen in particular is not something that men should be fearful of as well just because we hear about it we associated with women. There's a natural conversion that takes place in the body where your testosterone gets converted into estrogen. And if we decide to perceive that hormone as a no, I want to I don't want estrogen in my body. I want to be just an alpha male with just
high testosterone. Let's crush the estrogen. Well, guess what happens if you deliberately suppress estrogen production in men, Like if you if you block aromatase, which is the enzyme that converts it, most guys will feel crackling and sore joints, they would get mood swings, they would feel emotionally like, just not as emotionally. They're more likely to be numbed and like not as emotional and depression anxiety like. It actually affects their whole biology. So like you said, there
these hormones. They're very delicate and they're very like if you tweak or manipulate any of them, they can actually heavily modify your behavior. Yeah.
Oh fuck, I've got so many questions for you. If only we have lots of time. All right, okay, so when we talk about the multitude of variables that impact how we look, feel, function, right in our health, let's just stay for the moment with well, no, let's go
with all the physical, mental, emotional health. You know when we go, oh, well, there's food, or there's lifestyle, and there's training, and there's incidental activity and occupational activity, and then there's socialization, and then there's sleep, and then there's habits and behaviors booze and drugs and coffee and like, there's a bunch of variables lucas that impact you know, how we work and how we feel and how we operate an energy and immune function and all of these things.
What's maybe a biggie that people don't think about as much as maybe they should, or they don't know about perhaps.
Yeah, yeah, I would have to say light exposure, Like the light in our environment. I know, it's like not really we don't really sort of think about it, but I actually do think that if we're in an environment all day where we're surrounded by artificial lights and we're inside working, Let's say you just working in a typical office job, and you're not actually exposing your body and or face to the sun, you're not actually getting that external light that actually has a pretty dramatic effect on
our mood, on our cortisol levels, the stress hormone, It can affect our general wellbeing, things like that. So and in addition to that, I'd like to mention that at night time, we want to be doing the opposite, right, we want to be avoiding these bright lights. We want to be avoiding specifically the artificial lights, because they can actually really dramatically affect our sleep. Right, So, like these fluorescent light bulbs. My entire apartment is a red light district.
Every single light bulb in my apartment is red the whole place. Oh yeah, if you come over the bridge heading towards for Melbourne, you'll see them. It's just the top floor red, the whole thing.
Hang on, hang on, So you literally have red light bulbs in your house.
I've literally replaced every single light bulb in my apartment to make that.
And is that because you need the joint to be illuminated so you don't fucking bump into shit. But you don't want I don't know. I'm guessing, what do I know? What is it? Why do you do that?
I think number one, the red light itself creates a feeling of relaxation, more like calmness. I know that it's not going to negatively affect my sleep as well. So even though I've got the illumination, I don't have the fact that it's going to suppress my melotonin at nighttime. I don't want to suppress my melotonin because I want to keep it elevated throughout the nighttime. So the bathroom lights, you know, the kitchen, everything's basically and I can change
them to whatever color I want. You know, you can just flick them back to you know, white, to blue, to green whatever. If you want to go disco mode, go disco mode you want to do.
This is how That's how old I am. I'm thinking of you out there buying red light bulbs and screwing those motherfuckers. That's how old I am. Okay, so this is a whole lighting system that you can pick a color, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It was an It wasn't a cheap fit out, but I was like, you know what, I'm going to be here. Think about how many hours I spend at home, Like I'm like a spending my most It's a great investment. Anything that can improve my sleep, I'm all for it because I know that better sleep equals better productivity, better energy. I can train harder, I can just do everything better.
You know, he left turn but almost in the red zone. Did you ever read a book called Drunk Tank.
Pink, Drunk Tank Pink.
No, Yeah, it's really interesting. It's by a guy called Adam Alta. I think you would like it, and it basically it talks about how your environment. Colors in your environment impact you know, everything from thinking to nervous system to the crime system. And one of the things they found in this basically this drunk tank which is holding cells in this city in the US and they did this all this research on it was it was one of the most violent places in the US, one of
the most violent cities. And they'd have, you know, every night, like a whole bunch of pissed guys and there'd be NonStop fucking mayhem. And they took out they what they painted all of the cells pink from the gray or whatever it was, and that that had an like the violence and the fighting and the the shit interaction between all the guys who were put in there almost disappeared by one hundred percent. It was like, I can't remember
the science behind it, but it was really interesting. And then what was funny because it I think it decreased testosterone production or something. That was one of the things they found. But what was funny was there were some sporting teams who got onto this and they would paint the visitors change rooms pink.
Make sense to try to.
Yeah, what was I going to ask you, oh, before we jump off testosterone all together? One of the interesting things I guess that's happening now is more so in the States than here, but it seems like a lot of women are being prescribed small amounts of testosterone. Can you explain why that is? And the upside or downside? Maybe?
Yeah, So with women's hormonal health, testosterone is very important as well, so in terms of bone mineral density, muscle mass, and also their libido as well. So what happens is you know, postmenopausal, they have a decline in progesterone, estrogen and also testosterone, and that's why applying a very small amount of testosterone cream for some women can help to restore their ability to build muscle. They just feel better
mood wise and things like that. So it's a I mean, it's been around for years, we've we've been prescribing it for years. We have a lot of information data on it. I think it should be used in combination with yeah, a lot of other lifestyle and you know, lifestyle changes and also some other supplements as well, just to to get the most out of it.
M Now, let me say before, let me preface what I'm about to say. Everyone with I think GPS are great. No no, no, no, no, they are. They are. But and I've got friends that are GPS and they're great. But like any profession, you know, natural paths, personal trainers, exercise scientists, bricklayers, TV presenters, there are good ones and not so good ones. And there are some that care a lot and some don't write. And I think that we have doctors up
on a pedestal that don't always deserve that pedestal. Right, they haven't you know, it's like, well done, you've got a medical degree. That's great. But I also think we need to understand that that GPS for the most part, are generalists. They're not specialists. And like, I find it amusing when you know, people say to me, you know, like what like my doctor doesn't tell me what exercise
to do or something like that. I go, well, your doctor's done zero hours if he did a typical medical degree, he's done zero hours of training and exercise, programming and prescription. I've done years of it at university and forty years
of it in life. Right, So you know, there's that, and that's not to say, but it's trying to understand that, oh, just because your doctor doesn't know about that doesn't mean that that's not worth exploring or a potentially valuable protocol or treatment because he or she doesn't know about it.
And it's it's so this, you know, as we head into this new territory not so new, but probably new to a lot of our listeners of you know, using supplements in a bigger and different way and peptides and hormones, and it's like it's people some people are like, oh,
that's fucking the wild West. And it's like, well, not really, but but the average GP isn't trained in that, right, They don't really so and it's not that they're dumb, and it's not they they you know, like I've had some of the doctors that I trained, literally, I've had questions from doctors that I trained over the years that would blow your head off about you know, like supplements and vitamins and creatine and just you know, and even nutrition,
which is cool, but they're not trained in nutrition either. So where are we going with all of it? And is it going to become like a lot of the stuff that you talk about is not mainstream, is it going to become more mainstream? And is it going to become more not that it needs to become all acceptable or you know, but just so that I feel like some shit spoken in hushed tones that doesn't need to be you know.
It's really it's funny you mentioned this because literally yesterday I was on Josh Pittman's podcast and he literally said the same thing, is like, oh, we're starting to actually see that people are like at least more willing to talk about this this idea of biohacking. And it's almost
like it's become a bit more like normalized. Yeah, And for me it's bloody exciting because I mean, I've been shouting I've been the weird guy for the past five years, and now all of a sudden, people are actually registering. And it's not because of me, it's actually because of like people like Joe Rogan, people like doctor Andrew Hupeman, people like Ben Greenfield, like these are the guys that are really pushing alternative medicine and or like, you know,
let's think outside the box. Let's actually let's actually acknowledge the fact that if you are if you are living in a house that has a shitload of mold, moldy walls, moldy carpets, moldy bathrooms, and you're feeling like absolute crap, a doctor's not going to really know they don't have a drug that directly fixes that mold toxicity. You need
to think outside the box. So this is why I think, I mean everything that I do is basically I'm spreading a lot of information out there around all sorts of health protocols, all sorts of health intervengeance, and it's up to the individual to say, you know what, yeah, maybe I might try that, or you know what, like, let's
maybe consider this. There might be something worth trying. And I never tell people that they have to adhere to everything that I post about, because I burst about a lot of shit, and it's and it's it's overwhelming even for me to say that I do it all. But you take, you pick and choose the ones that you think are relevant to you. You give things a try. If they don't work, don't do it. If it does work, keep doing it. That's that's my mentality around it.
Yeah, one hundred percent. I always say to people, you don't need to be a scientist to be scientific. Like it's like you said before with your testicles and equals one where you go, all right, well, why don't you do you know, sally, why don't you do this? Why don't you cut out bread for a week and just see what happens?
You know?
Or why don't you why don't you do weight training three times a week for thirty minutes? Do that for ten weeks, Get some you know, base line data at the start, get some kind of strength testing done, and some kind of subjective you know, emotional and psychological evaluation if you can. And then because and The other thing too with all of this, of course made is you know,
I eat something and it's great. You eat the same thing and you feel sick, or you take a supplement and it's fucking amazing for you and for me it does nothing. So understanding this relationship between stimulus and response
and individual you know, biological and genetic variability. Is that the same stimulus or the same drug or the same peptide or the same meal or you know, some people drink milk and they're like, oh, that's the best thing ever, and some people are gagging for an hour after half a glass of milk because they're not producing in our flac tas or whatever it is.
Right, we speak the same we speak the same language, Craig, It's unbelievable. Just how like, yeah, what you're mentioning there is like basically exactly what I've been trying to, like, yeah, educate people on and.
I think that, you know, I think it's a crime.
I'm speaking metaphorically that that educated in inverted Comma's knowledgeable experts in inverted Comma's asterisk discourage people from trial and error.
Like now I'm not saying be reckless with this, but you know. Imagine if we all learned how our body works optimally because we open our awareness and we start to go all right, well, I'm gonna I'm going to really track some data. I'm going to try this thing, and I'm going to see what my body tells me. Because my body is way smarter than me. It's its own form of intelligence. Maybe I should listen.
I think if anyone's listening to this and they hear you say that, I think it's really going to resonate. And that's that's what That's what enables better our comes for in every area without minimal drawbacks as well. You're just being very like the way that you're approaching it is, you're just being pragmatic. You're just being really simplified. It doesn't have to be complex health. Health can be complex, yes, but adhering to the fundamentals and going back to basics
in some regard can be life changing. I mean, I mentioned the reason why I mentioned light exposure in our environment. You sort of mentioned like, what's one that sticks out to people that maybe they haven't considered. That's one that that sticks out to me that I think maybe people haven't considered. But otherwise, if you said, what's really going to move the needle the most? And I would say, go back to your foundation, sleep, good diet, exercise, stress management,
and good social connections. I think if you've got all five of those, then you're going to be living to one hundred.
And pay attention to how your body responds and reacts to different shit that's going on on planet you. It's like, I mean, I have people who walk into a room that I talk to. They walk into a room, their heart rate goes up, their blood pressure goes up, their respiration increases, and for them, some people, just being in proximity of certain people is literally bad for their health. Like,
we don't think about shit like that. Like I say to people, you it doesn't matter how much you're getting paid, if you work in a toxic culture or a toxic workplace or environment around toxic people, get the fuck out. The money is not worth it because that shit will literally kill you.
Yep, yep. I I mean, I've tried to communicate that to some individuals, but I like, of course there's a lot of when they're in that position. It's easy for us to say that because you love your job, I love my job. Did you escape a job that you hated. I don't know, did.
You just I mean, yeah, look I didn't hate it. I just I have this revelation. When I was really young, mate, I was twenty two three working in gyms, running gyms. I was managing gym's centers when I was twenty two and it was good, but I just realized, I don't want to boss. I don't want to have to turn up at a place at a time and then work to another time and then do that five days a week. And I always say, it's not that it's bad, but it wasn't ideal for me, and it definitely wasn't a
toxic workplace. But just the idea of clocking on, clocking off and essentially doing a form of the same thing for a very long time, like years or decades. I'm like, fuck that, I need to figure out how I can just do shit that I love that also is a service to people and also makes me enough money so that I'm okay. I had no aspirations to be you know, I ended up employing five hundred trainers and had the
biggest personal training business in Australia for a while. That definitely wasn't my goal that was just a fun byproduct of just diving into the shit that I loved.
Yeah, that's that's that's really profound. It makes me, It makes me sit here and wonder and just like really deeply, because sometimes I just get so very deep into my work and my business that I can't even zoom out and be like, Gee, what a great opportunity that I have in my life. Like, I'm so grateful that I literally get to do my hobby. It was my hobby as my main job. Like I cannot believe that, you know, moving to Dubai to further grow myself and expand and
reach more people in the world. It's just such a I'm very grateful and it's a good reminder just to like, yeah, because I can't imagine how much it would eat you up inside if you did a job that you really that you just really really didn't enjoy, or it just you knew it wasn't right for you.
Kind of awareness I reckon, you know, I say to people, whatever you are in the middle of, whether or not that's doing a PhD, or whether or not that's a job, or whether or not that's your own business, or whether or not it's a specific relationship. What is the emotional and psychological and physiological byproduct of that thing that you're in, Like, for the most part, is it a positive psychologically, emotionally
and physiologically. And if it is, like you and I have this beautiful thing, that my work and your work doesn't feel like work, right, And for many people, a lot of people have a similar situation. But for many people that's not the case. And I often say to people, In fact, I did a gig last week where I was in front of hundred people, hundreds of people doing a corporate thing, and we're talking about this thing. So people talk about work life balance. I feel like I'm
hijacking your time, mate. I'm sorry, that's fine. We talk about work life balance. I talk about a concept. I created this. I don't know if other people use it, but I call it work impact. And the question is not how many hours do you work and not work? And if we get this kind of seesaw or these scales of work hours and non work hours, have we got the right numbers?
Right?
Fuck that? Because you could do twenty hours a week of a job, which is not many hours, but you hate every fucking minute, Well that's the worst job in the world, or you could do sixty seventy hours a week of something that gives you joy and purpose and focus and connection and love and empowerment and growth. Well, fuck, give me eighty hours. You know. It's like everybody thinks
it's about numbers. That's the dumbest shit ever. It's like, what am I doing and what's the consequence on my body, mind, emotions, and soul. Perhaps it's at your belief system, spirit. What's the consequence? Is it good? Is it bad? If it's bad, then tweak it adjusted or get the fuck out of it.
Yeah. No, I can resonate with that so so strongly. I think it's it's it's really like I'm if I had to frame and perceive my life in terms of how you sort of mentioned it. They're like, and you can ask my parents because when I was still living at home during lockdown, like that was a really critical time for myself in my in my business. Yeah, it was obviously the first couple of years of my business. So I was like in the mom and dad's garage, right,
I was working for mom and dad's garage. Wow, dude, and I was basically they were they were genuinely at one point concerned for me because they're like, you've worked, Like they said to me, you know, we're you gonna this. This was after lockdown, so we were allowed to go out,
go out and be out and do things. And it was Friday night, and I remember a mom sort of saying to me, She's like, oh, don't you want to go out tonight, or you know, don't you want to see your friends or something like that, And I was like, to be honest, I'm really loving what I'm doing here. Like I know, I've been working like probably sixty seventy hours this week so far, but I'm just I'm building
something here, and I'm really I'm hyper obsessed. That's definitely one thing about me is that, like the there's autistic traits for sure within me because I'm so hyper locked in and hyper focused on this mission. And it's just like, yeah, I think, but like you said, it just that didn't feel like work for me. It really didn't feel like work. There was so much enjoyment. I got so much excitement and enjoyment from it that it just there really didn't feel like work at all.
I think one of the silly things, but understandable, very human things that that we do is we look at someone else's habits or behavior or work hours or lifestyle. We look at it through our lens. Yeah, and through our lens. Oh, that's irrational, or that's too much lucas, or that's unhealthy. And quite often the person who's been critical of you has a job they fucking hate. They're saying it to themselves it's physically, mentally and emotionally unwell.
And you the dude who's doing something that you know, takes lots of you know, and it's not to be critical of anyone, but it's just projection.
It's projection, isn't it? Like yes, spread out.
Projection one hundred percent, And it's like and also, you know, the thing that would be, you know, for me standing in front of a room full of people talking about you know, stuff we're talking about right now, just like, what's it all about? Fucking what's the meaning of life and me? And how do I manage me optimally? Like literally, that's what I'm talking about most of my life is how do I and you how do we? How do we live optimally? What does that mean? How do I
manage me? How do I manage my mind, my emotions, my behaviors, my body, my choices, my outcomes. How do I do that? What am I doing great? What's work and what's not? Like these are fundamental questions and in the middle of that, like there's no work like this is. But I understand, you know, when I'm up on a stage talking, I feel like I'm in my natural habitat. I feel like and that's maybe because I'm an ex fat,
fucking only child who needs attention. Maybe that's a bit of it, right, But I just love being up there. And for other people that would be the most terrifying scenario, and for them that would actually be a bad thing. For me, it's a great thing. And that just speaks back to our point about it's not about the thing, but rather your response to the thing, and whether or not that thing is a job or a macro nutrient you know, or a supplement, it's still about how you and it interact.
Yeah. Yeah, I love how you mentioned the perspective like it depends which lens you're looking at it from, because yeah, like I can just had people yeah mentioned to me as well, like, you know, you can't be working that much. You need to go out what about you know, it depends like everyone's got a different level of like tolerance as well, with like some people have generally, I think
some people have like enormous amounts of energy. Like I think you're someone to me, I perceive you as like a very high energy dude, like you're and you're still still going strong, like even they've been at it for many many years, like you're you're a bloody beast, greg like you're still brushing it in every area. I think genetically as well, I think some people, I think some
people just have a bigger cup. I do think that maybe you'll say, but I've built the cup and I've actually made the cup bigger because I've done this, this and this and you know, but yeah, it's an interesting it's an interesting perspective because I think about like the things that drain your cup. For example, I know for myself, it's when i'm doing it's when I'm doing the work that I don't want to do and they really don't enjoy.
That is what sucks the energy out of me. Whereas when I'm actually doing the work that I love doing it, actually it's almost like the cup doesn't even drain it just stays there. Yeah.
I talk about this thing mate called anti goals, right, And I think it's good to get clear about what you don't want because once you get clear about what you don't want, because like so many people will come to me and say something like, you know, they're forty years old or they're fifty years old, and they say, a version of this wasn't my plan, you know, like essentially where they're at in their life or with their body or their business or their money or their whatever, right,
and which is cool, And my audience is sick of me saying that this next bit. But then I say to them, can I see the plan? And they go, what, I go, the plan of which you speak grasshopper, Can I see it? Well, there's no fucking plan. There was just an idea of how things would work out, right. But I think that when you go like I used to watch all my mates get pissed and fall down when we were young, right, drinking booze from sixteen and I and this is not a judgment, but this was
just a personal awareness for me. I just went, I don't want to do that, right, So that's cool that
they do. And maybe when I'm twenty old drink. Maybe I'm just because I was training like a maniac when I was fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and I thought I was going to be the next big thing, and of course I never was, but you know, I was training like a maniac, and so it never like the idea of getting pissed and falling down and putting alcohol, which is essentially poison in my body held less than zero appeal.
So it required no discipline or self control like at all, and people like, oh, you're so even now, People go, it's amazing, you've never had a drink so much self control. I go, fucking no self control because it it's like for me, it's like you could go, oh, you know, you don't punch yourself in the face such self control.
I mean, it doesn't hold any appeal to me, But I think once you get and it's not that, by the way, not that people shouldn't drink, and not that people shouldn't have a regular nine to five job, and not that people shouldn't do anything particularly, but when you know, for you, like I know for me that two meals a day works good, but I wouldn't suggest that for everyone. I know what supplements work for me. I know how much sleep works for me. I know when my brain
works best during my cycle. I know when I'm most productive and I can focus the best, and what type of work is best to do it, what time of day, when I should lift weights, when I should walk when, you know, And that's because my body taught me, you know, and I pay attention.
I think what you mentioned there around like just just paying attention to the to the feedback your body gives you. Like I mean, there's there is that like subjective feedback that you can get and then you can also I mean there's the objective feedback, which is the stuff that I'm sort of like really hard on, which is the blood testing and you know, making sure your vitamin D is in the right range. Like you can't feel. It's not like you can say, yeah, I can feel my
vitamin d's a bit low, Like you can't. I've woken up. Oh yeah, I just feel I don't know if something feels off, Yeah, maybe my vitamin D is a bit low. Like you can't really do that, but yeah, I mean, I think marrying the two, the subjective and objective, is just get the best bang for buck and so that you can just continue doing good to society, you can continue showing up the best version of yourself. Like that's what you're all about, which is very similar to what I adhere to as well.
You know, you said something before, you know, when you're talking about we're talking about maybe some of the most overlooked fundamentals for health, and you spoke about you know, just getting outside in in daylight and some you know, out of the fucking office. I am about eight months ago. Now, apologies to my listeners, but I was my phone. My phone dinged, and it basically said to me, you're not walking many steps, right, you know how it tracks it basically, yeah,
whent get the funk off your ass? And it gave me a kind of a report of how many steps I'd walked in the previous three months on average per day. And I don't want to tell you, but I'm going to tell you. It was like fucking four and a half thousand or something. And I'm like, shit, am I one hundred years old?
The daily average? Ye?
Yes, yeah, yeah, right, So I know wow, And this is the guy that trains every day at the gym and all that shit. But I spend so much time doing podcasts, doing research, finishing my study, writing emails, writing you know, business shit. Anyway, that's but my bad, completely my fault, no excuses, they're completely my fault. So I went, oh,
that's fucking terrifying. I didn't realize, and so I just said to myself, well, from tomorrow forever, from tomorrow forever, the worst is going to be ten thousand, the worst, the minimum, the minimum, the minimum. And so every day, you know, I think my average since that day has been around fourteen thousand, right, thirteen fourteen.
Thousands that week? Is that without getting like a treadmill desk.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's just I literally go for walks and I what I've done is I go, ah, I'm you know, say, I'm doing a coaching session with somebody. At midday, I message them and say, is it all right with you if I walk and talk? And they're always like yeah, of course yeah.
In mind.
So either where it's physically walking and talking, but usually it's it's virtually walking and talking. And here's the funny thing. I reckon when I'm walking and I've got headphones in and I'm talking to someone, I reckon I coach better Yeah, I'm more present, I'm more focused, I reckon, I'm better value for them when I'm not just sitting in a fucking room where i can daydream because my mind's like a dog with three dicks, right, Trying to focus it
is a fucking effort. But when I'm out and about, I tend to be more present. But the other thing I was going to say to you a dawned on me when you were talking about being outdoors. And since I've done that, I feel, you know, this is impossible to CONTI fire, but as you know, I feel like all around thirty percent better. And I think part of that is also because I'm just outside, Like I'm probably outside just walking two hours a day.
Wow.
And I do that in installments. You know, It's like I'm at the cafe at six thirty in the morning, but I'll walk for forty five minutes before I get there, right, you know, when I finish with you, I've got another podcast soon after that. I will go walk for an hour, but I will answer emails, I will do I will talk to Melissa who runs my life, will do a planning session. I'll respond to some phone calls. So I'm walking and working, but it's I'm actually out, so I
feel like that. Yeah, as you said that, I thought maybe maybe it's not just the walking, maybe it's just being out.
And they could be Yeah, I thought about that as well, because I've actually I invested into a treadmill desk during the start of lockdown, and I mean it was because I was working from the garage. The garage door would be open, so I'd get the I was like semi indoor outdoor, you know, because I've got the carriage door open. The treadmill desk is facing outside the garage, so I've got the light coming in. And I tried to replicate that now in the apartment that I mean, obviously I
don't have a garage. Is I'm my top floor of the apartment building. But my treadmill I can't show you now, but basically it's to my left here. It's pointing out to the window, so I'm literally walking towards the light and I've got another screen above me, and I'm like, when I take the I was actually gonna I was actually, funnily enough, going to take this podcast on the treadmill just to be a bit of a show off and to say you know, look look at me, Craig. Third time round. I've leveled up again.
And I'm Ben Greenfield and I've just pushing the limits.
But I've I've done a few podcasts on there before, but I've trained, I went to the gym, train legs.
Sorry when you said walking towards the light, it reminded me of a near death experience. Go and finish that you were trying.
Yeah, I was. I hit legs this morning, and I hit them really hard. So I'm like, I've only had one meal and i got to do it. I'm not going to do the podcast on the treadmill whilst I'm talking to Craig because i hit legs super hard this morning, and I've got a shipload of other meetings and things today, so I'm not going to burn out to too early, too fast. But i can tell you now what you said about doing the consulting where you're actually walking outside
and you're actually better value for your clients. Man, I can resonate with that because I'm actually feel like i'm way less adhd. I'm using that word. I'm more focused when I'm walking and talking, and there's i mean, there's science behind it. It's related to blood flow, lymphatics, you know, increasing BDNF all that sort of jazz. But yeah, I think that's a Could you imagine just how much healthier are the entire population? Just take a think about this.
Imagine if we increased Imagine if we increased the globe the Australian average number of steps per day by just an extra five to seven thousand steps per day. By enforcing that every single office has a treadmill, like a tread more desk feature, could you imagine the reduced burden on the entire healthcare system of Australia. I'm I'm talking about a potential massive reduction in blood pressure medications. I'm
talking reductions in blood sugar, reductions in inflammatory diseases. Like it's literally just from walking.
Yeah, mate, it's It's incredible. Oh I love chatting to you.
We have to organize a funny mate.
I had so many things to talk to you about. I've got another podcast in a minute or two that i didn't even get to. But I this is going to sound weird. I should say this off the podcast, but I'll say it on. I've enjoyed, I've enjoyed all of our chats, but I've enjoyed this one the most. So Lucas is at ergogenic at Ergogenic Underscore Health at Ergogenic Underscore Health on Insta, Luke has owen spelt a o u N l u c a s a o u N. Where else can people get you? Mate?
Thanks so much, Craig. So if they search boost your biology on YouTube, there's a there's over a thousand videos of Golden health content there, So yeah, boost your biology on YouTube.
Amazing. Hey mate, we'll say goodbye affair, but once again, thanks so much for your time on the You project. We appreciate you and you're a soup star.
Pleasure is always Craig, and I'm looking forward to collaborating again.
Thanks buddy.
Awesome