I get a team. Welcome to another episode of You Know What with You Know Who. One of my favorites humans, Josh Bitterman, has joined us. Who's just written a new book. He's a superstar. You don't need to introduce you don't need me to introduce you to his work and his background. But here he is.
Hi, buddy, he thanks so much having me on. Brother.
Now people can't see what I can see. Well, I can't exactly see her at the moment, but you've got a new addition to the family. Now if maybe Melissa or tiff I forget who's editing this, but like, oh my god, I thought you were good looking. But you're a FuGO compared to who you're holding. Tell everyone what you're holding, what her name is, and what she is.
Well, I'm a fugly troll compared to this cute thing. You're right. This is Ze and she is an eight week old Caerverdle and my heart is just melting and exploiting every second every day. I've had her for about twenty four hours and she is just the love of my life. She's so sweet, she's just delicious, and she's tiny. You're so small, so we had her first sleep last night. There was some tears and the crate, there were some wheeze, but all in all we got some zase. So that's good.
What are you, I know the answer a bit of the answer to this, but are you a good dog? Dog?
Dad?
Like? Is this your natural habitat?
I think loving is definitely my natural habitat. So she's going to get a lot of love. And you know, I've been controlling in my time, so I can go back to that that default state heart and be a bit of a task master too. So yeah, hopefully she gets a great balance of love and discipline, which is really just love, I think, because you know, dogs need plenty of disciplines, especially in this first part. Then they're
just working, they're working out what the world is. So I've got to show the ropes.
Yeah, and did she. So last night was a little bit of a struggle. First week. It's always a little bit messy, right ah.
Yeah, there were tears, like I got it pretty sleepy before. She's great training, so I've got a pretty sleep before it's time to go into bed. And then a few tears for about five minutes wasn't too bad. And then she just self soothed, and then about three hours later some tears took her out for a week. Same again, a few more hours of sleep, some wheeze cries, you know that. It's like it was like on cycles in three and two hours. So I ended up getting my
eight hours with a couple of intermissions. It was like going to see a three act opera. And she got some sleep, she got some wheeze. She didn't win in the crate, so he did, good kid, So good for a first go I reckon.
What's the what's the idea or what's the thing behind having them in a crate. I know, like some people like, oh, that's that's cruel, but it's actually it's They actually kind of thrive in that a bit, don't they.
Yeah, So they don't like the soil where they sleep. Yeah, right, So it teaches, it really teaches them to hold it in. You know, she didn't we in there, which is good, So that's that's really important. Also, they're like den animals, like they love a den. So the crate is open during the day. It's like little toys and little treats in there. I've made it really warm and snugly, like
it's a really good place for her to go. She she she goes in there herself and just naps in there during has snapped in there during the day in the last day, so you know, she likes to be in there. So it's it just creates a little a little home for them inside the home basically.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think. And they're quite allos oodles, all the variations of spootles, caboodles and grudles and bloody labradoodles, yeah, labradoodles, and yeah, poodles have I said, But they're all smart, right, all derivatives of like, because poodles are highly intelligent, aren't they.
Yeah, so there she is a very smart lap dog, like King Charles Cavaliers are dislike, you know, they're they're the royals lap dog in time. So she's a lap dog and she's smart. She's already pretty smart. She's doing some pretty smart things. You know. This morning we played fetch and she was bringing her little tassel ball back to me, and you know, she like knew that if you if she brings it back, we're going to keep
the game going. So like, she's she's a pretty smart cookie, which is a sleepy one as well, they're just they're just like little. I don't know, I haven't had a child, but it's just I feel very paternal here.
Yeah, super cute. She had all the drugs in the world at the moment.
She hasn't. So I took her to the supermarket this morning. I just wanted socializer. So she went to the cafe and she went to the supermarket or whatever else and someone went, oh, I thought it was a croissant.
Ah, what you must have to carry her, right, you can't walk around.
Yeah, so I'm carrying her around everyone, just holding her in a little yeah, with her little blanket. So yeah, it's very it's adorable.
I'm sure that might a ten minute trip to the cafe, a forty minute trip, oh yeah.
We prepared for that. We went to visit visit the doggy daycare around the corner, just to introduce herself because she might spend a day or two there in time. Went to the local cafe. Yeah. Just I think it's really important in these first few weeks that like all of this is normalized for her. So yeah, yeah, trucks and cars and sounds and smells and people and things that it's just all like, oh, yeah, this is all a part of my life.
Yeah, well that's all that's censeri. Well what have you been now? What are you doing and becoming a dad? What else have you been doing?
I wrote a book that came out last week.
Oh did you?
Oh? I didn't know. As a casual book. I spent a couple of hours on a few words here and there. Yes, I've been writing that since the back end of twenty three.
So that came out yeah, last week, which is, which is really exciting, which is And it's sort of a I describe it as memoir meets self development sort of both both a mirror because the themes in it are so universal, so it's a mirror to everyone's up but also a map and how to work through some of that stuff that I've worked through that everyone needs to work through, you know, stuff around self limiting beliefs and unworthiness and not enoughness and shame and imposter syndrome and perfectionism,
dealing with rejection, dealing with control. I talked about controlling it. So yeah, just all these sort of universal things. But I use my career in showbiz as a sort of canvas with which to paint these ideas on them, what's the idea for ourselves. There's even some stuff around body image in there, which I know you'll be really interesting because we've both had our body image stuff mate, Yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff around bolimia, which is the first time I've really opened up on that.
Of all the stuff that you just mentioned, you know, all those very human things, what do you think are the almost universal commons and nominators? You know, it's like self doubt, self loathing, imposter syndrome, seems to be like almost everyone. What else is high on the list for most people? Do you reckon?
I think what's really high on the list, And I think we're inherently built into this from a social conditioning, from a Western perspective, is relying on extrinsic validation, yeah, to fill us up internally. And there's nothing wrong with extrinsic things like we need a roof over our head and a close on our back and food on the table.
But if our self worth is governed purely on those things, we live a life that's like clawing and chasing to try and fill something inside from the outside, and it's just so conditional out there, so turning inward and finding ways to fill yourself up intrinsically is a big theme throughout the book that I think everyone can learn from slash relate to.
You know, it's so interesting because I would imagine in the space that you play in, and I know you're more than a performer, a lot more than that, but that's kind of in inverted commons your job. And you know, my job has been working, yes, with minds and brains and habits and behaviors, but a lot of my life with bodies. How do you look? How do you feel?
How do your function? You know, there's so much about your journey and my journey where I can't speak for you, but I would imagine for a lot of people in your space and MySpace where external validation is the thing, especially when you're the ex fat kid that's wildly insecure and you know, doesn't think a lot of yourself, and then all of a sudden, you've gone from the fat kid to the fit kid, to the strong kid to the kid that's kind of jacked, and then you get
all of this attention and approval and validation and acceptance and with an asterisk love that you didn't get. So I literally learned, Oh when I look like this, this is the result. And then when I look like this, this is the result socially, And so you get taught that what you look like matters most almost, you know. That's the terrible lesson that I learned.
And I learned the exact same one, and I talk about it in the book. Obviously, the books called Behind the Mask, and I refer to the mask a lot. I mean, in Latin, the word for mask is persona, which I think is just so fitty, and it says so much about the book. And we'll we're all wearing masks, and we're all playing roles in the world, and so that role might be the fat kid turned fit kid turned strong kid role. And we're wearing masks for two reasons,
and they both come down to the one reason. One because we get praise and validation and acceptance because of the mask we wear. And two because we're trying to hide something that's lying beneath the mask that we're wearing. So yeah, either way, it speaks to a lack of acceptance and a really authentic and true natured self.
That's so interesting, so interesting. I interviewed a girl last night, Lady, I should say it, Nicole Liddell, who's up today, And her background is really interesting. Like ten years ago, she was forty three, two kids, living below the poverty line, victim of domestic violence, mental health issues, morbidly obese, like a whole bunch of stuff. And I used to when I would go to Queensland and do gigs, she would come and she would admit, you know, herself, like she
was pretty broken physically, mentally, emotionally, find everything right. And I had her on the show last night. Now ten years later, she just found a way. Fuck it. I love what she's done and I love how she is, and she's you know, she's now fifty two, I think doing her PhD in psychology, done her undergrad, had never been to UNI, had no confidence, couldn't even afford to apply for UNI. It was like seventy dollars. One of
her friends paid for it. When she first started UNI, people like friends used to gift her food for her, like she was her life was really, really, really tough. And I said, I chatted with her last night, and you know, I wasn't groundbreaking or life changing, but it was a really beautiful conversation and with her because she's been through so much shit right, and now she's, in her own words, a fifty three year old or two year old menopausal woman. She doesn't like she's nice and compassionate,
but she can't. She can't be bothered with trying to be what people want her to be, right. And it's so interesting to you know, when you talk about persona, always talk about I did not know that. By the way, that's so interesting that persona is Latin for mask. I talk about pisona all the time. I didn't know that, so thank you. But the gap between the persona that we show the world versus the person that we are.
And I said to her last night we finished the show, and I said, you know, you are one of the most like the gap between who you are when I talk to you and the person on the show. It's like there's no gap. But with almost everyone there's there's somewhere between, a little gap, you know, Like for you, the gap is pretty much non existent as well. I think you are very who you are on and off right. I try to be that. I'm not always that sometimes I'm full of shit. But for a lot of people,
the gap is big. You know, the microphone persona is not the person that I meet or know or talk to away from the mic. And I think that that getting to that point where you are just so comfortable just being not having a mask, you know, is it possible to not have a mask?
No? No, And I think they're really important. I talk about that in the book. Masks aren't the enemy, right, but when they are, when they're the master of you, then you're in trouble. So we have to bring conscious awareness. And that's a chapter in the book around awareness and expanding our sense of awareness so that we come home to something of a true nature beyond the masks we wear, and then we can choose to put them on. Because it's all good and well to be vulnerable, but vulnerable
without safety and trust is dangerous. So we need to wear masks masks protection, but we need to acknowledge that we're doing it because it's helping us, not because it's hindering us, not because it's controlling us.
Right. But also, I want to ask you for an example in a moment, but I guess you're talking about wearing a mask. That doesn't make you disingenuous, right, It's not you pretending to be something you're not. So give me no example, give me an example of that. So wearing a mask to protect yourself for example.
Yeah, so if for me, it would be anything from going to the supermarket, let's say, and you know, and speaking to the checkout person as authentically as that camp but or where that we're in supermarket zone. Now, yeah, you know, two media that I might have as a performer, and stepping into that space and just ensuring that there's just that there's a little bit of awareness to go, hey,
I'm stepping into this mode. Now I don't have to change who I am, but it's just there is this little bit of protection, you know, and that we're constantly shifting from role to role that you know, yes, there's an authenticity that you can bring to everything because you're comfortable with yourself and you don't care what people think, but you do care deeply about them. But the role of the father hold this little chicken nuggets, to the brother, to the son, to the performer, to the coach, to
the podcast, there's all these subtle differences. And if you're wearing masks in a way that they define who you are, and you're going to run into a lot of trouble. Whereas if you kind of if you have a real deep sense of who you are and then you go, you know, I'm placing that one unconsciously and I've got to shift into that role. I'm slightly different with my nephews than I am with my mother, you know, and
you're you know, you're just bringing awareness to them. Ask and that's healthy because we don't have these and we don't have the sign. If we don't have an ego, you know, we don't have any sense of self as the human And we bought a line on psychosis.
Yes, that's so interesting. What I last week I did two gigs. I did a gig in Melbourne and gig in Queensland. But the week before I did a gig for all blokes and the gig I did three days before that was two hundred ladies in a room. And it's funny because you don't want to be yeah, you don't want to be disingenuous. You want to be you.
But in the you know the context of what you're talking about here, I have an awareness when I go in front of a room full of women, I'm still going to say what I'm going to say, and I'm still going to operate with, you know, as much integrity and emotional intelligence and situational awareness as I can. But when I'm talking to that, I think it was called
women in Prince Great Group, Lovely. But I'm up there and I'm trying to have an understanding of what's going on for them in this moment, So I'm not just looking through the Craig lens, but to understand for a room full of women who've got this buffet up on stage. You know, I'm like, how do I need to be without being disingenuous or fake? But how do I need to be for this hour to be great for everyone? You know?
That's how are you're painting your mask? Yeah?
Right?
In what ways are you painting it? And it's you know, the mass change's form and shape and color and and and that. That's that's all. That's all great. I mean our mask persona egos or whatever you want to call it, because the sona is a component of the ego. It's inherent part of being a human. You know, we are a conscious being and aware being. You know, some might call that, or some might call that. If you're hindi it call that batman, or if you're as signed dos
you just call a consciousness or conscious awareness. Yeah, living in a form, a psychological form and a physical form that has an ego. So we can't kill the ego, we can't kill off the mask. It's not the enemy. It's about the dance that we have with it, in the relationship we have with it. So if we have no sense of self behind it, then we are an ego dancing unconsciously in the world. And that is very, very troublesome, a lot of suffering involved.
In it, and ego dancing unconsciously. Can't write that down. I think that's almost the title of the show. I mean, I'm doing my ten week program, my ten week mentoring program at the moment, and every week we unpack different So Monday night, seven o'clock we unpack a different idea, topic, theme, and week two, which was this Monday night, it's just you and your mind. So every week is like you and your mind, you and your body, you and your
you know, your career, whatever, blahbah bah. Right, So we just kind of and it's not so much me telling people how shit works as it is us collectively discussing you know, this week, you know, beliefs and ideas, and values and consciousness and awareness and you know, pulling back the curtain to see the world rather than your version of the world, and having an awareness of the window
through all that kind of awareness consciousness stuff. But I feel like when it comes to this consciousness a having an awareness bigger than your own mind, having an awareness bigger than your own thoughts, and trying to you know, while our mind is definitely a gift, it's also a prison, or it can be a psychological and or emotional prison at the same time, to figure out how do I coexist with my mind in a healthy way, you know.
And I talk about that a lot in the book. And so to say that the book is certainly a mirror, and it's a mirror because you're through my stories and undulations in my career, you'll see yours. But it's the important part of it is a map. And so there's journal entries for self inquiry. There's an array of meditations in there, and I always see meditation as really a path back to our deeper self, a path back to
that conscious awareness. You know. People think a meditation is about stopping my thoughts, and I can't do that, so I'm shit at it. So I'm going to give it up. But it's not about stopping thoughts at all. We've got sixty thousand plus of those a day, and it's really about changing our relationship with them. When happens when we come from an aware place where we see our thoughts sort of painted out in front of us and go, ah, well,
there's a negad train of thoughts that's catastrophizing. Oh there's my reptilian brain going into a negative bias there, and I'm going to spile it. Do you know what. I've had that spiral many times over the last few months or years. I'm going to see that and stop it and catch it before it spirals and realize that's just a narrative, that's not a truth, and that is awareness that it is catching. Because the ego loves fear. The ego loves separate, to separate. The ego loves me versus them,
you know, or even me versus my aware self. The ego is a constant game of separation from everyone in the world because it lives in fear generally, So the tools that I put that I have in the book to expand one's sense of awareness, because people go, how do I become more aware how do do I mean that phrase? And of itself? And that question of itself
probably requires a bit of awareness, you know. Well, the thing about our suffering, So whether it's of the mind, whether it's our anxiety, I worry, our doubts, our fears, or whatever is, they become very sticky to our awareness. They're very close to our awareness when they are the
governing force. And what happens when we become more aware through practices like meditation or yoga or even somatic practices or even Western therapies of like you know, seeing a therapist or whatever, we start to unstick those patterns of the egoic mind from the awareness and we can see them. It's like a little bit more space. Psychedelics have been amazing for that for me first and now talk about
that in the book. And as we create more space from our true nature, our awareness, and those thought patterns, we see how they're negatively affecting us, yeah, or really positively affecting us. But sometimes and so you just go, You've start to pick and choose. You become more discerning, you become more response a ball rather than just reactive to everything. And this is the power of an aware and conscious being. But very few of us in the world are plaguing in that space. And that's and the
thing is, every single human has conscious awareness. It's just how expansive it is because it does require, in this Western world time to cultivate it.
What was something that, something or things that for you you became aware of that you previously were not aware of. Or perhaps just maybe a light got shone more brightly on something where you had to acknowledge, own up, step up, change whatever? Is there anything in particular that for you kind of became a greater awareness.
So I've told this story a number of times. It's what showed me where the seed of my wounds, or one of the major one, which is a fear of abandonment. I talked a lot about fear in the book, fear of the unknown, fear of abandonment, fear of death, fear of failure. And I've had all of them. We all have all of them in some ways. Yes, And I was doing I was playing phantom in London. I was starting to get very exhausted, very tired. My voice was
going and my voice rarely goes like that. And so I went and saw the ant and he's like had a scope at my cords. Nothing wrong with him, but I can see you're struggling. Would you be up for seeing someone a little bit more esoteric? I was wearing a crystal around my neck at the time. I think he was. He was preaching to the choir. I said sure. So I went and saw this woman, Jake was her name, and she asked me what the nucleus of the character was for me? What what sort of who is he? From?
Child like childhood? What are his wounds? And I said, oh, he was a boy born with a deformity and his mother couldn't look at him, and so from the moment she had him, she threw him onto the steps of the circus and he was abandoned. So it's abandonment. And she gave me a little sort of rather smile, like a little giggle, like this is going to be fun.
Took me through some hypnosis, and within ten minutes I was taken back to a moment when I was about six at after school care and my parents were over an hour late to pick me up. It was just me and the guy running me after schoolcare. I was looking out the window and I just started bawling and bawling like I've been holding onto this thing for twenty five plus years and like screaming, purging. And I went back to the show and never felt that same level
of exhausting again. So I was playing that out in there. Wow, playing that out on stage subconsciously. Yeah, because the unconscious mind is constantly we think we've got free wheel crave, you know, but our patterns are all being moved and shifted and shaped from the unconscious. It's like it's the puppet mast and where the puppet unless we become aware of these things. And so I became aware of this
abandonment moment. I also became aware of what was what are some of my behaviors that have manifested as a result, And it was an incessant need to be loved, to be noticed, to be wanted, to be validated. And I went, wow, oh wow, this is this is the wound and the gift. My wound is this abandonment. My wound is all this need for validation. But in doing so it's brought me
into to performing. Yeah. What an interesting combination there. And Carl Jong always speak, has always spoken, a great Swiss psychotherapist, psychologists always spoke to the fact that the gift lies
underneath the wound. And so there's a chapter, well the small chapter in the inside a larger chapter about the wound and the gift and asking people then to self reflect upon their potential wounds and what that might have manifested into a gift, but also how it's manifesting ways that are detrimental to you and probably those around you are the people you love. So that was very insightful.
Yeah, it's the whole thing about free will and how how in one way, like we're at the in one way, we're at the mercy of our kind of brain chemistry and our biology and our DNA and our genetics, and also, as you said, our subconscious mind that's holding onto this stuff and kind of you know, pulling the strings, I guess for one of a better term. And yeah, we do. I do think most of us think we're pretty self aware,
you know, and we're pretty in control. But you know, I kind of think that's just a story that we tell ourselves.
Yeah, I think if you're saying that you're self aware, I'm self aware in a sort of very dogmatic or even defensive way. Yeah, I would I think there's an opportunity for greater self awareness my way of saying that. Yeah, And you know, I've done so much work on this, and yet I feel at days like I'm just at the beginning. Y, you know, And as long as I'm bringing a level of curiosity to my internal world and the external world, then I know that I'm becoming aware.
The moment I feel like I've stopped being curious, yeah, then I'm going, well, now I'm being righteous?
Yeah right, Yeah. Even the idea that like we we all like to think that we're open minded and objective Mike, Well, yeah, no,
like I'm not. I would love you know, like you try to think that you and maybe you're more open minded and objective than you once were, But if you've got pre existing ideas and beliefs and biases and likes and dislikes, then you're always processing life through that lens, right, Like I can't help but judge the world subjectively because I'm me, even though I understand what that means, and I understand the idea of total open mindedness, which doesn't
exist an objectivity, you know, yeah, that being able to go Look, I I don't want to be but of course I've got biases. Of course I'm prejudiced, but not hopefully not in a terrible way, but you know what I mean. And of course I've got pre existing thoughts and beliefs and experiences which really shape how I process data and how I tell myself stories about what's going on. But I think for many of us, a lot of the time we don't see the gap between what is and our story about what.
Is exactly, and so pulling on that thread, I would argue that we don't need to get harsh on ourself for a lack of open mindedness, but can we transcend that idea and sink into open heartedness so that yes, we have our beliefs and whatever, but our heart is open to the feelings of another human being. And this is where compassion, empathy, understand forgiveness start to come in. And these are all themes in the book as well, where you know compassion. I think the best definition I've
heard is one from the podcast I do. The same name behind the Mask I came in from for an organization called Social Health Australia and they basically deal with death, dying, loneliness and grief and he describes compassion as shared suffering. Wow, And I don't think that is something that is of the mind. Yes, you have to put yourself in there and make a choice, but it's something that's of the heart.
So you might have a completely different belief system to that person and have different ideas around the world and political agendas, and you might think that Trump's are learning
and they might think that Trump's a hero. But in what they're experiencing, your heart is open to sharing that that's suffering with them, whatever that might be for them, even if they're not in in grief or death or dying, just as another being, that is, as another soul, you know, seeing people beyond God the psychology of the mind and their belief system and seeing into a deeper part of them.
Yeah, because I could.
I could on one hand, go, oh, for me, Trump isn't someone who aligns with my values as a as a human being. But I can also love him from a soul's perspective because I can also I can also see his upbringing, his wounds, he's suffering, you know, his daddy issues, and see how all of you know, his nurture has manifested into what he is today and that's not me pitying him, that's just me loving him at
at a sort of deeper, deeper level. No, I don't agree with what he does, but I can be compassionate towards somebody suffering and.
A little bit of that. I love that, by the way, and I wish we could all be like that. I think, you know, seek first to understand, right, like understand going trying to understand Donald Trump, for example, the moment that you go, look, I understand him, people go fuck him, fuck you fuck you know. It's like I didn't say I love him, or I didn't say I support him, or I didn't say I align with his ideas or behavior. It's just like I'm trying to understand, and I'm trying
to understand the good and the bad. I'm trying to understand people that I love naturally and normally, and then people that I struggle with, I'm trying to understand them too. And that also this how don't know this? Maybe you can explain this better than me, but it seems like this fucking obsession that people have, especially online, with being right, like being right, like we're right there and whatever group it is, right, well, we're the right group, they're the
wrong group. This is the right idea, that's the wrong idea, this is the right theology, wrong theology, right, you know, fucking political system.
You know.
It's like just to be able to coexist with others and communicate and connect and be kind with people who don't agree with you or think like you or live like you, perhaps while not condoning horrific behavior, of course, but just like trying to get out of your own fucking echo chamber, you know, and realizing that, by the way, you've been wrong about many things in your life, and so you're probably going to be wrong moving forward. I know I've been wrong, I don't know a million times.
I'm probably going to be wrong another million times. And if I don't acknowledge my own fallibility and flaws and propensity to fuck up and get the thing is wrong, then I'm a problem.
Yeah. Yeah, so well said. And yeah, throughout throughout the book, that's what I'm doing. I'm sort of showing where I failed and my imperfections and where I'm trying to grow, and that the fact that it's a process and there's you know, there's learning, and then in the learning, there's forgetting and remembering and back to forgetting and back to remember, and it's all that's a part of the dam too. But speaking, you know, to speak further on your point,
This is what I was talking about. The ego wants to do. It loves to separate, It loves to say I'm right, you're wrong, me versus you, us versus them. And from a soul's perspective, and this is where the book moves from the mind down into the soul. Like it's got a sort of downward slowly. It moves downward, which is very soulful. And I always describe the soul as slow and down rather than up and fast. It's not getting you up here, it's not up in woo
woo land. And you don't think quickly. You get there slow down. So you've got to move down there slowly. So I also ask people to read the book slowly, you know, to slow down in it. So it's a solful act. But from a soul's perspective, there isn't us
in there. There's only I and I. Yeah. And so when you look into the eyes of another soul, really choose to understand and choose to look beyond their conditioning and beyond your you know, very one side of belief systems, or your righteousness or your need to be right or you need to carry more weight or whatever. You really just see another soul looking back for you with all the same you know, neurosis and suffering and this and that. But everyone has, you know, experiencing and in that and
seeing their imperfections is a mirror to your imperfections. That is what connects us. Where's the ego and it's need to be right? Yeah, it's always playing in a game of separation.
For me, I feel like all the stuff that you that you know just mentioned neurosis and all of the you know, my myriad of psychological and emotional issues like most people self doubt, impostle, all that stuff, and you know, I feel it's like I used to try to eradicate that. I used to try to get that out of my life, like I, fuck, I don't want to be fearful. And then then I realized, oh no, dude, that's never going It's about how well you can coexist with that.
How do you respond to it? Yeah?
How do you? Okay, So you're about to go and do a talk at wherever and and there's lots of people, and you're getting paid lots and there's a little bit of expectation, and by the way, don't fuck it up, it's being filmed and all this stuff, right, and then and then in the middle of your anxiety or your self dad or your moment of whatever, it's it's like, yeah, but I'm still here and I'm still doing this. And also, you know, so what can exist. I think this is
interesting is simultaneously these things can coexist. Where the emotion is, you know, fear and self doubt and blah blah blah blah blah, and then the prefrontal cortex, the mind or the part the part of the brain, is like, yeah, but you've done this many times and you're not terrible at it. In fact, this is why you're here. This is why you're getting paid this much. This is why you have this opportunity because you have a track record
and you can do this. You know, so those things, the knowledge that I'm not shit can coexist with the feeling I am shit.
Yeah, that's the great thing about the great thing about the mind on the prefrontal cortex. I don't know whether you know about meditation, actually thickens at the process of meditating. There was a great study done at harv not too long ago to show about ten minutes of meditation a day can pick in the free front of cortex so and change the relationship between the three fund of cortex and the mid diller. So it helps us with our memory,
our focus, and our emotional responsibility, which is amazing. What I've learned is that that, yeah, that stuff doesn't go. I still have the same neuro season and whatever else, but how I respond to it has changed a lot. Like when I see it come up, like rather than go no, don't like what wei persist? Right, So when I go no, anxiety, you're not allowed here, You're not allowed here, the anxiety goes, hey, I'm coming up for more. Yeah,
I'm going to get your kettle. So when I see it coming out, it's more like exactly like, I know I've done this in many times. I'm good with this, but I always have like a gig all to myself. I'm like, ah, hey, old mate, you still care. Yeah, Because if I wasn't slightly anxious or had those nerves before a performance, I think Pavarotti said I would say in the book if you're not scared, it doesn't matter, and you want it to matter, the same way a line gets a bit anxious before it it goes, it
takes down at zebra. You need that, You need that heart rate, their ability to shift like it's got it. It's got to start pounding a little bit because this matters to you. There's care, and because there's care, there's love, And so I've reframed it from a place of love rather than a place of fear.
Yeah, yeah, so interesting. Why do you think that so many of us so often, if not all the time, some of the time seek approval and validation from people either we don't even know, or who actually don't care about us or even like us, but we still want their approval or their validation or acceptance. What do you think that is about.
I think it's about our inherent not enoughness that has been built into us since day dot, especially in West and society is sort of touched on this at the start. But you know, there's something I talk about in the book,
which I'd love to hear your thoughts on. But you go to school, you study year eleven and twelve, and I just decided to study theater theater studies or dance and whatever because I want to go and do musical theater, and someone else studies physics and higher level maths because they want to become a doctor or you know, astrophysicists or something at maths and whatever. And we're both a genius in our separate ways. We both have skills and
talents and passions, and they're very different. Their subjects are marked up, right, The system says, you're doing something hard. You need to be marked up because this is very hard. The system says to me, you're that dance and that drama, that's data studies, that's really easy, So that's to be marked down. So your mark is going to be lower than that person's mark because your genius lies in a
different space. And that breeds so much self worth, so many self worth issues with the young people already that they're in a system that says, because our intelligences are different, like that that physics and maths guy. Show me how he's going to recite Shakespeare with the sort of depth of a turn of phrase and eloquence of tongue that I can. But on the other hand, I'm not going to be able to handle that very intricate physics equation, you know. But what it does is it says you're
you're smart, you're done. Yeah, you do easy stuff, he does hard stuff or she does hard stuff, and that from a very early age. With we're dealing with that system in our education. We're doing that problem with our education system. We're also dealing with marketing constantly everywhere we go, telling us we're not enough until we have that new TV, that that new house, that better car, that different type of soda, that different type of cereal or whatever it is,
that different type of beauty product, health product. We're just getting told that we are inherently not enough until until this, until that and or that new bum or whatever it is. And that just breeds it because we don't because it's happening when we can't actually form conscious awareness. It's happening from day dot. So this is this is the wrong.
Even parenting. You know, you're a good boy, bad boy, you know all of this sort of do this, you're good, do this, you're bad like, so we're constantly going I'm not enough in the world. And when we hit people who you know, we come across in the street or we don't know we're constantly in a cycle of tell me I'm enough, yes, to validate me, because I am not valid in my own sense of self. And that's a lot about what this book's about. But not enoughness
epidemic that we live in. How do we become fully loving of ourselves in all our ways, all those imperfections, without having to rely purely on the extrinsic world to fuel us and feed us, because it's because you never get enough from it. You know, the theory that what we're after in this world isn't the bigger car or better car, or bigger house or better house, or new bum or you know, new Telly or whatever it is, or new genes. It's the feeling we think we're going
to feel when we obtain that thing. And yes, momentarily we do feel it. It's a steroid, but it never lasts, and we scratch and claw and climb and chase to get something else and something else, something else. But that feeling is a feeling, so it lives inside of us. Yes, it's we're getting it from the outside world, but it lives inside of us, which means it can be cultivated internally.
And that feeling that we're after is the feeling of bliss, the feeling of contentment, the feeling of safety, the feeling of security, you know, the feeling of peace, and the the sanscrit word for this which I talk about, so you know, I do call upon a lot of my sort of study of Hinduism, Buddhism and stuff like that in the book is an under which does translate into bliss, but not purely from a euphoric sense, from a grounded sense.
And we actually have Ananda mites in our body as a chemical in our body that it's our bliss hormone. Son even science is taking stuff from Sanskrit at times, but we can cultivate that feeling internally and we should try to. This isn't about happiness, because happiness is a state that comes and goes, and if we're happy, we're sad. If we're up, we're down. So we're always chasing the up we're asking to go on the roller coaster. It's
about chasing, or not even chasing. It's about moving into a space that is more full of contentment, equilibrium and peace internally so that we're not just on that hurry to grab everything externally to fill us up momentarily love it.
Equanimity as well.
Equanimity.
Yeah, it's you know. The funny thing is, okay, this seems like it's a stretch, but I don't think it is. So when we think about the way that society views success and talks about and defines success, like if I've got I mean you do what I do as well. Now you know you're in front of audiences chatting. If you and me are in front of a room of a thousand people and you say put up your hand if you want to be successful, every hand goes up.
Nobody wants to be a failure, right, And then you go, cool, just jot down, you've got a minute, just write down what that is. And then people go, what is I go, success, you want it? What is it? Right? And so people get a bit perplexed with that because for a range of reasons I won't go into, but I think for most of us we grew up in a psychological, sociological,
cultural model that says success is about things. Success is about what you have and what you earn, and what you own, and what you look like and where you live and what you drive, and what people think about you and what people say about you and how smart you are, Josh, and how smart we think you are, and blah blah, blah blah, all of these external things. And of course there's nothing wrong with being the great singer, the great performer, or the great fucking anything, or driving
the Ferrari. These aren't bad things in and of themselves. But the problem is when you think that success or happiness or contentment or calm or equanimity or whatever it is, when you think that that's an outside in process, you're
fucked because it isn't. Now, there is a correlation and a relationship that's kind of interactive between internal and external worlds, of course, But you know this comes down to as you were talking, I'm thinking this relates to one this kind of whole idea around success that we grow up in and you and I have met successful. In fact, you've been the successful person who from the outside looking
in people like, fucking look at him. But the inside out you're a fucking train wreck right at times, You're a psychological, emotional, spiritual train wreck despite what it looks like from the outside, right, And they don't that doesn't people like, no, but look at him, he's done to day and you're like, well.
And you are God some careers that online that tell me otherwise through Sorry's Instagram and that photo says he's killing it. How could he possibly be feeling these feelings that a human feels, you know, behind the mask he's wearing.
And I think, so I love going All right, let's just let's not judge that. Let's just think about that idea or that version of success, and now let's talk about this really boring thing called setting goals. So everyone that I talk to and everyone that picks up your book on some level is picking up your book because they'd like to create some kind of positive shift on planet them. So that involves, well, where are you and where do you want to be? What do you have
and what do you want less of? And what do you want more of? And maybe in you know, with your current operating system whatever the fuck that means what's working and what's not working. So when I say to people, Okay, what are some of the things that you want? So we talk about the what right, and then they go this, this, this, I go great, Now, let's unpack that why do you
want those things? Because the why is your actual goal, Like the what is just the thing that you think, as you were alluding to a few minutes ago, it's what you think that will do for you, Like why do you want to be jacked, Craig, Well, I want to be jacked because I feel I wouldn't have said this, but this is I feel unloved. I feel unlovable. I want people to like me, want me think I'm great.
I want guys to be a little bit intimidated because I'm wildly insecure and I'm a fucking idiot, and I want girls to think I'm hot and bah and then okay, why do you want all that, Craig, Oh, let's go to the net. Well, I fucking hate myself and I'm insecure, and I think if I get all of that, these feelings, these emotions, this in a turmoil that will go away. Ah well maybe probably not, though, you know, it's like when you start to put your thinking, you know, metacognition,
where you're thinking about why the fuck you think? There's a time to get out of your mind. There's a time to get into your mind, right when you start to think about so these stories that I have about success, are they true?
You know?
And how has it gone for me? In the past, like how many mountains have I climbed only to get to the top and go, fuck, this is not the mountain. It must be that one over there.
Right, And that doesn't matter where we are, It's not where we want to be because it ain't about you know, where, It's about who you are and how you are.
Yeah, And to pull on a couple of things there, I think, Yeah, there is a process of what and why, and then after why it's why why? Why? Why? Why? Why? The real what.
Exactly?
Yeah?
And then what and then what and then what? And then are here? We are?
And I think we get to a point on this journey of climbing mountains, which is really the first part of the hero's journey from Joseph Campbell's perspective. If people know about Joseph Campbell's Hero's journey Joseph Campbell amazing American literature professor who coined that and that's now used in like Star Wars and Harry Potter and various things. That first part of life is very you know, for want a better word, self serving narcissistic traits. You know, me
and me me? What can I obtain from the world? How high can I climb whatever. At some point we meet an ordeal, we meet a crisis moment or a crucible moment, and in that there's a dark knight of the soul or whatever you want to call it. And
this may happen many times in our life. But in that we pull the wisdom, we get that elixa, that gem where we go, ah, that's the truth in this are And on the second part or third part after that, you know, obstacle or crisis moment, we see that life is generally not about what we can get from it, but what we can give to it, how we can contribute positively to the world, What impact can we have
on others that helps them on their journey. And we return on the hero's journey back to where we came a new you know, we have a different philosophy, a different outlook on life. And for me, it's definitely been that you know, how many mountains I can climb, you know, and what's the view from here? It's not good enough yet, like you, maybe the mountain, maybe the next mountain, But for me now it's very much even if I am performing, which can feel self serving, you know, can be about
look at me, look at me. I've switched that into how can I serve? How can I contribute, so that it's no different from coaching or from writing this book, which is about how can I take others up the mountain? How can I help them on their journey? And that's
a huge shift point. Then things feel purpose driven. And I think if we live a life that is feels purposeful so that we are contributing positively to the world, that's if that is a huge part of what is truly fulfilling from an intrinsic perspective.
Mate, I love talking to you so interesting.
I love talking to you to her brother, we share so much more stuff and see such different journeys and such similar journeys.
Yeah, and now you're embarking on the dad journey.
Yeah. You know what, during it was really cute. They do this thing. I think people copies know this where they dream about being back on their mother's teeth. And so she was just sucking away like like you know, like Maggie Simpson with her dumb It was cute. My little my little chicken wing.
She's very bloody cute.
Mate.
So the book is called Behind the Mask Everyone, Where do people get it?
Literally? Any bookstore, you know, major bookstores, not as not as big ones. You can get it online via Amazon or on ebook by Amazon as well, but the easiest way is just to go to my Instagram at Josh Pittterman, click the link in the bio and it's got all the different retailers there, so you can just grab it there, or you can rock up to your local Dimmicks or reading store or columns whatever.
It's Yeah, the old fashioned way on foot, the old fashion way, go and buy an actual book in your hand with pages. Wow, look at it. Look at it. We say goodbye, fair but congratulations, I'm excited to read it. I'm sure we'll our readers will jump on board as well. And yeah, thanks for sharing all those insights. We love chatting with you.
Love chanting with mail. You're a gym.
That's a lot, brother, Thanks buddy, that's a love