I'll get atm. Welcome to another installment you project. The Coyle Adel from the Thriving Metropolis from the Sunshine State is back the PhD wonder kinned lounder kinned the accidental a little bit like Jumbo Harps the accidental PhD student. How are you?
I'm good? I'm good.
Is it beautiful up there? Where it's down here on the Thriving Metropolis and Melbourne? It's Tuesday night. I feel like I'm back on radio. It's two minutes past six and it's still about eighteen degrees. Actually, let me tell you right now, I'm going to tell you at eighteen oh two in Melbourne, right well, in Hampton it's twenty two degrees and it's like it's the most beautiful atom ever. What is it? What is it up there?
We're having Melbourne weather.
It's like one minute it's sunny and then it just pisces down with rain for about five minutes.
Then it stopped. It's currently twenty one.
Well sucked in. You should move to the Sunshine Stadium also known as Victoria. Anyway, enough for that. How are you? How are things good?
Yeah, I'm good. Things are good.
Now this is your second time on the show. You had a lot of good feedback about you last time, so let's not do obviously the previous show again. Yeah, anything that I fuck up, so just filling in. Do you remember what number your last episode was, give or take if? Well, we got lots.
Of red in ten seconds, all right.
You did that and not talk, So we got lots of We had lots of really nice feedback about Nicole. And I meet this with complete love and respect. I love it when we get someone on the show that no one's ever heard of in inverted comments, do you know what I mean? Like, of course you know people know of Like, you don't have a brand, you don't have a profile, you're not famous. But we got more good feedback, more positive kind of input about you than
probably ninety five percent of our episodes. And I think that is because you're relatable and your story is relatable, and you know, lots of shit in your life, lots of good stuff, lots of peaks and lots of troughs. And now at the right pole age of what are you now? Forty one? Fifty two? Fucking hell, you are a dinosaur. Fifty two.
I'm actually you know, I'm fifty two in a couple of weeks.
Yeah, I actually did think you're any forties well, and at fifty two, I nutlike someone else, we know you're doing you're doing your PhD. But yeah, so go you. And I think one of the things I love about this kind of format is that, you know, I love I love talking to you know, people who are a big deal and people have done bloody incredible stuff and been at the Olympics and written amazing books and cubed cancer and you know, yeah, Forest, and that's great, and
it really is. And those people are, you know, inspirational in their own right. But I find, you know, like people like you who really you were in a hard spot, a real hard spot, and nobody picked you up, and nobody like you just figured it out. So yeah, what episode was it?
One seven two?
One seven two? All right, So if you like this episode, which hopefully you will, go back and have and listen to their original and you can hear the fully detailed version of the cold story. But so, how's the PhD going? What's what stage are you at? How far in are you?
I am confirmation is happening in June.
I haven't got a confirmed date yet, but I'm hoping for the seventeenth of June for confirmation made. Confirmation report is out external reviewers, My ethics for my first study is.
Out with the peer reviewer.
I'm probably going to submit my first paper in the next.
Three or four weeks.
Wow. Wow, I'm about to tell people. Tell people what firstly, what academic milestones are? Do you call them? That? Is that what you call so academic milestones? And specifically confirmation because ninety five percent of people, their idea of confirmation is a different thing to what you're talking about.
Yeah, so it's a really interesting one because I didn't It took me a little while to get my head around how the whole thing works. So I've been doing my PhD for twelve months, but I'm technically not a PhD candidate yet.
Until I'm confirmed.
So it's taken me twelve months to to get to get to the point where so the confirmation is basically you're putting your research proposal forward to external reviewers for them to say, yes, it's viable, you can go ahead. And so once you get confirmed, then you become a PhD official PhD candidate and that's when you do your actual studies.
Yes, yes, yeah, and along the way. I don't know how it is. Are you at the University of Southern Queensland or something, Sunshine Coast, Sunshine Coast and so like in my PhD there's four academic milestones and putting it in I don't know about yours, but putting it in layman's terms and like easy understand language. It's like going to court and you've got to stand before a bunch of people that you don't know, and you've got to go,
this is what I'm doing it. This is what I'm doing, this is why I'm doing it, this is how I'm doing it, this is what it's been done. That's kind of related to my research. This is why the world needs my research. This is how it's different. And then they bombard you with questions and you go, fuck, I didn't think of that, and they go, you really should, and then they ask you a few things that you know.
And I've never felt as a professional speaker, I've never felt more inadequate, more insecure, more stupid, more And you know what's interesting, Nick.
Is that, I mean, you've seen me speak many times, right, I'm okay, I'm not saying I'm the best, but I'm okay at it. And put me in front of a thousand people, I'm calm and I'm confident. Put me in front of three thousand, I'm calm and confident. Right, Put me in front of four professors or three or whatever it is and a couple of external people, and I felt so underprepared, so underwhelming for them. And anyway, I got through all there's four of them in my course.
I got through all four. But I found it terrifying.
But yeah, well, I mean, I think the scary thing is that you're presenting a gap in the research and the people that you're sitting in front of experts in that field. So you're kind of saying, like, I'm you're new to a field of research, and you're trying to tell people, you know, the people that have been doing it for years, that there's a gap and you want to fill it.
And so.
Yeah, it is, Yeah, but you'll be fine.
And also they know you're you know, you're a brand new student. They don't expect you to be them, you know. And the people that reviewed me, they were you know, they were not. I mean, the funny thing is.
The like I was, I didn't think on any level I was anything special anyway, which is neither sh but is more of you know, like I often go somewhere and I'm talking and you get fussed over and you're the guy, and people you know look after you a bit. So there's a little bit of a tension all that.
And it's funny in this situation. You are, well, you're slightly more than a number, you know, your student even one, three, two, four six, and you're doing you know, a doctorate in this or a PhD need that, blah blah blah, blah blah. And the appointment time is twelve thirty and we've got this long in these people and ready set. And by the way, I don't know about you, but we have
we have to do a twenty minute PowerPoint presentation. I fucking power point, right, I'd rather punch myself in the face. I'm no good and all of the things, all of the things that I'm good at or that I'm skilled at because I've done it for a long time, are redundant in that situation. So being funny, building connect building rapport, freestyling and living, you know, just reading the room. It's all doesn't mean shit, Like just tell shut the fuck up.
We don't care how funny you are. We don't care if you've got a million followers on this or that. We don't care. Just tell us about the research. We're busy, We're busy. Hurry.
So yeah, yeah, So it's nerve wracking, But I'm also excited to get past confirmation because it means I can get stuck into the start recruiting for the studies.
And what are the misconceptions that people have had? I could bang on, but it's it's about you. But that where that people don't understandably, by the way, this is not being critical of anyone, because I didn't understand it. P actually really actize that. I'm like, oh, this is I don't really know what I thought. But what are some of the misconceptions that people have when they ask you about your research or the PhD journey? Or because I've been asked some hilarious questions.
I had a friend like, so, I started the PhD in March last year and she said to me, just recently.
Have you have you finished that yet?
No?
And I think in her.
Mind it was just an assignment, you know, like I was a twelve thousand word assignment or something or I don't know, and I went, no, it's a it's a three. She goes, oh, it's an actual degree. I'm like, yeah, it's a it's a minimum of three years and I've got to conduct you know, three or four research studies and write papers. And she's like, oh, so, and like you said, I didn't I didn't know. I didn't even know the difference between a postgrad and an undergrad degree.
So I the PhD for me, I had no idea what it was. But fortunately, working in the research center at the Union during my undergrad I kind of.
Surrounded by people who have PhD, so.
I kind of, you know, I did have a little bit of an advantage there because I was, you know, surrounded by people in who were doing it.
So and still am.
So I've still got lots of people that I can go, hey, how did you navigate this?
But yeah, which is really good.
And I think what people a lot of people don't realize, neither did I right as a PhD student, especially when you're doing it it's a research PhD. Where like, there are no classes, there is no there are out a whole of that. There are no terms, there are semesters, you don't have teachers per se, there are no exams, you don't hand it work. You kind of do, but you don't really And it's like, oh is people when people go to meet, oh is do you have UNI this week? Like when that's like.
I go home, Easter Saturday is just Saturday, you know, it's like yeah, people around. There are literally people in my lab, the you know, brain park, the neuroscience neurocyc lab.
There are literally people at UNI on Christmas Day. Yeah, we're working.
Yeah, all the public holidays we've had.
I got excited about them because it gave me more time to work on my PhD.
Yeah yeah, yeah, it's yeah, so the idea that and then they're like, well how do you get And you go, well, you're trying to explain to people that we actually design this whole kind of research process and find you.
Know, driven by questions that really haven't been answered in this area or fully answered, or we're expanding on someone else's work or opening kind of a relatively new door. It's like, oh, so you design the study, you get ethical approval, you find a venue, you get your participants, you do the thing, then you get the data. Then you try and figure out what the fuck that data means, and then you want to write about it and then
you hopefully you find something interesting and valuable. If not, well, you know, it is what it is. And then yeah, but the idea that you rock up and you do a you know, you sit in a lecture and take notes, or you know, you hand in an assignment at the
end of every semester or this or that. Yeah, it's a very very you know, I think in general terms, I don't know too much about too many of the other kind of areas of research, but especially in science, especially in the space that you and I in's like you're doing it's primarily aren't you right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got to. I mean, you've just got to be very,
very self motivated. And I think I also think and this is encouraging for people who think I'm too dumb to and I'm not saying it's it's definitely not easy, of course, but you don't have to you think, oh, you must be a genius to do a PhD. No, you've just got to be resilient and you've just got to and you've just got to be able to do
the work. And it's like I think it's more about your capacity to do work and get uncomfortable and keep doing work and keep getting uncomfortable, and keep asking questions and getting a bit embarrassed and getting a bit insecure and learning a bit and you know, rather than are you a genius and can you get a doctorate in whatever?
Yeah?
I know, I one hundred percent agree with that.
I don't think it's got anything to do with I mean, obviously you have to have a level of intelligence and you know, to have you know, some critical thinking skills and all that sort of thing. But it's more about being organized. Can you manage your time? Can you get up every time you get knocked down? Which is a lot. It's a real test of I think it's a real test of I want to say resilience, But it's more than that.
It's like.
If you're if you're doing a PhD because you want to be a doctor, or you're doing it because you want to be able to have that conversation at a barbecue and say, well, you know, then you'll you'll probably not do it, like, you probably won't finish it because if it's for the external thing, then you'll you'll fall over before you even get through the first eight months, because if you're looking for external validation and pats on the back, you're just not going to get.
Und People have already said to me, can we call you doctor Hart like joking but kind of serious but joking. I go, no, you can't. And even when you can, you can't. I don't want anyone. I'm not being self deprecating or humble. I do not want anyone to call me that. Like it's okay, I'm glad, I'll.
Get Hopefully it feels a bit, doesn't it.
I don't want it at all. Like, it doesn't. It doesn't doesn't suit my personality, doesn't suit me. You know, if I'm being brutally honest and transparent, it certainly doesn't hurt when you're working with organizations and companies to go oh with. You know that our next speaker is doctor Craig Harper, bah bah bah cool to an audience who don't know you, and then that's cool, but in my general life and fuck no, I don't. I don't want that.
So and I think that's you.
Yeah, you use it as a leverage, so you know, it'll it'll look good on my resume, it'll look good on my LinkedIn profile. It'll you know, if I want it's the credibility.
To get me.
If I want to get to somewhere, and having that helps me get there, then you know, then I'll call myself doctor.
But that in that moment just remind us. So you anything I fuck up, just correct me, right. But I remember, if I remember correctly, when you did your undergrad one of your friends kind of loaned you a few bucks to be able to even apply or something because you were in I think we call it technically up financial shit creek at the time, and your life wasn't going great. You were carrying a few pounds and you're making no money and you're feeling like dogshit, which is understandable. When
was that? What year was that? So twenty twenty five, now what year was that?
I would say it kind of hit a real peak around twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, So I started my undergrad at mid twenty sixteen, and I was pretty much, yeah, that was I was at that point where people were buying groceries for me, because wow, that's where we were.
Yeah, would you say, I mean, how without going over too much stuff that we've covered, but it was quite a while ago, so and I interviewed you, and I'm still foggy on shit, but I've interviewed a million people since.
But how would you describe your situation or your life at that time.
The first way that comes to mind is helpless, like hopeless, you know, like just I'd probably say defeated, like there was this real sense of like is it you know, like just I couldn't see a way out? Wow, yeah it was.
I was going to say I was going to do something sorry to go and finish that apologize.
No, I was just gonna say it was pretty bad, Like I did.
Feel like, I mean, I think I've always had this kind of I've always had an internal drive to want more, but I was feeling like no matter what I did, nothing was changing.
At this stage. You're in your forties, you're forty two, it's true.
Yeah, yeah around there, and.
You don't have a degree, and you've got no dough and people are buying their groceries and you were not super healthy physically at that stage.
No, And I wouldn't say my mental health was very good either, to be honest.
Yeah, yeah, we were Okay, okay, did you ever get feel free to not answer anything you don't want to answer. Did you ever get diagnosed with anxiety or depression or like, was that ever a thing for you?
Yeah?
I had.
I was diagnosed with CPTSD, which along with that was the anxiety and some depression as well.
So but it was TSD.
So complex complex post traumatic stress.
Wow?
Yeah?
And so did you also feel free to I what I love about these conversations and hate like I don't want to go anywhere you don't want to go, so shut me down with Yeah? Did you did you ever think that it would get as good as it's got?
Now?
I know that your life's not seamless and perfect, but like I've known you on and offer like we've never been best is, but we know each other and you know, like I've known you for quite a while. You came
to some of my events. You live in Queensland and comes to Queensland talking with I think you drove me to or from the airport at once or like, so we know each other, but me you've seen I don't know, there's an energy and a lightness and an optimism and a confidence about you that you know, not lego, but that just you didn't have.
Yeah, I think.
I was thinking about this today because I was having a chat with my son, because we have some pretty deep conversations, and I just I feel like I've just earned my.
Place at the table now, like I just of life, yeah, like.
And not from yeah, just because I've not for there's nothing magical about it, all fantastical about it. I've just it did the hard things and it paid off. And so there's this intrinsic kind of thing that comes along with that that you can't money can't buy, yes, and it's just this Yeah, I don't know how else to explain it. It's like the intrinsic reward for me is
more than anything external. So any label, any amount of money or any you know, accolades is nice, but it actually it's just that's just the cherry on top for how I feel like you're kind of you know, maybe cry out, but yeah, So there's this this intrinsic kind of thing where I'm like, I deserve to be here.
I've earned my place at the table of life because I've done it and no one can take it because you know that I have a lot in my life felt like things get taken from me, you know, and it's if if you have a really solid sense of self, then it can't be taken.
You can't.
Yeah, I don't know if this is exactly the right question, but it's in the ballpark, and it's going to sound like a cynical, even negative question. I don't meant it to be. But is it nice to not Is it nice to be able to not depend on anyone? To be totally self sufficient? No, I'm not saying you don't want anyone else in your life where you're not might
not fall and live happily ever after. I'm not saying that, but just to be totally practically, financially, emotionally self sufficient, where yeah, of course you want you know, you want connection and love and socialization and whatever may it come. It's good not to be dependent on someone.
Yeah, one hundred percent. And this was the exact conversation I was having with my son earlier. And it's like, sometimes I do I mean, I've been now I'm probably oversharing, but I've been single now for probably close to i'd say, eight nine years, so there are times where I go it would be nice, but it's.
Not like my life is so.
Full and rich and anything that or most things that I would get out of a relationship, I get from my friendships or my connection with my children, or the valuable work, you know, the research.
That we're doing. And there's so much that I am.
I'm like fully independent, but not so independent that I'm an island and I'm disc connected from people, like I have some really meaningful, rich relationships with people, and my life's good, like I'm and I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, you know, like the reality is that the choices that I've made and where my life has been over the years, financially, you know, I was married, we had property, we had you know, we had a we were building this financial future.
It fell apart, it all went to shit.
Then there's a good chance I may not ever buy property or own my own home again. And there's a good chance that I will not ever get you know, in being in a long term relationship again. But none of that that doesn't even matter, because I'm still the happiest I've ever been because I don't know, it's just like those other things are are.
Good, but it's not that I think.
Also, and this is two fucking old single people talking, So don't pay attention to anything we say, and also don't consider it advice for sure.
No it's not no, no, not it no.
But I think one of the interesting things is in our culture I'm speaking generally, but we assume that being in a relationship is better than not. Well, have you had a look around? I mean, are you paying attention? Because there are a lot of fucking horrible, toxic, unhealthy, destructive relationships and that's not being negative, that's being an observer. There are also some beautiful, amazing, you know, loving, compassionate
and passionate relationships too. But what it is to say, it's it's it's just saying that you know this plus this doesn't necessary verily automatically equal that you know. And so the assumption that Nicole, oh, you're this or you're that, but how much better would your life be with you know, Brian or Dave or Scott or Barry, And the answer is, well, it could be fucking worse, you know. Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't know. I'm the same. It's like, you know what I get this that such a waste, such
a waste. Ah, I'm like, what do you mean? And then like you know, I literally had a lady tell me this right about two years ago, like well meaning, And I said to her, you know, she she kind of cornered me at the cafe. I literally sit in the corner with my coffee and she's nice and she didn't you know, And I said to her she was drilling me, which I fucking hate. But anyway, oh, why had and how coming? Didn't you ever? And wasn't there anyone? And none?
All that?
Right, I'm like, fuck, I don't want to be rude. And I said, look, honestly, I said, you might not believe this, but I really like my life. I have great friends, I have great connection, you know, like I have purpose. I try to live my values. My work is very meaningful. I have you know, da da da. And I said, I'm you know, I'm really really good. And she goes, you tell yourself that.
Like.
She was trying to tell me that I'm pretending that I'm happy. She goes, no, you just tell yourself that to make yourself feel good because you don't want to deal with I'm like, oh my god, anyway, I'm not going to think what they're going to think.
Well, And it's interesting because a lot of people go.
There must be something because you know, it's women are supposed to want to be single or to be okay with being single. Yeah, there must be something wrong with you. So it's almost it's almost now become a red flag that I've been flying solo for so long.
Yeah, well, I mean I think.
It makes me less compliant, I think is what the issue is.
Do you know what, like even the idea of I mean this is weird, but you get to the point where you're like, I don't want anyone sleeping in my bed, fuck someone else in man, Like, no, I've lived by myself so long. Yeah, for me, I'm not weird at all. For me, I'm totally normal. But I could totally imagine a fly and the wall. People would be like that guy is a fucking weirdo. Like like, you know, I'm so comfortable with shit that other people wouldn't be comfortable.
And I'm so like you know, everybody, you know, nothing nothing fucking completely weird. But just where Yeah, even even having because nobody lives in my house except me obviously, so even if a friend comes and stays every now and then, you know, like my mate, he lives in the country, and of course I love having them down. But it's like, oh, it's really weird for me to have another human in the house overnight. You know, you just be used to whatever it is that is your you know, your dad alcohol.
Yeah, I hear got one hundred percent agree. And my dog gets all my conversation, like, he's just my best friend. What did you get it?
What did you Is he a kelpie or a border collie?
He's a border Collie?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, super cute. Hey. On Monday nights, I'm doing a mentoring program and you know, we've got quite a few this program. We ended up with fifty two or three people and it's it's ten weeks and every week is a different kind of theme. And Monday
night sorry, first week, week one. It's called Life Design one oh one, and we talk about this idea nicole of you know, living consciously, like you know, planning your life and not not so that everything's you know, like micromanaged, and there's still time for fun and silliness and bullshit and bit of Netflix and you know whatever, a little bit of cake and a bit of coffee or whatever the fuck it is, right, but also so that there is an element of oh, all right, well, I'm forty
five and I'm not very fit or healthy. When I'm forty seven, I would like to be much fitter and healthier, and maybe in a better job, and maybe you know, and then building a bit of a strategy and an operating system to support those goals and those aspirations and
those intentions. Right, I'm coming to a point, and my experience and observation working with lots of people is that many people tend to kind of just do what they've always done, you know, with their body, with their food, with their habits, with their career, with their even when it doesn't really in inverted commerce work. So I want to talk to you about this idea of intentional living, living with purpose, where you go, okay, what's working in my life and what isn't? Like it doesn't need to
be come okay. And so like I would say to someone, let's talk about you and food. Has that going if ten out of ten is it's a really healthy relationship, one is it's fucked. What's your number? And they might say five, and you go, all right, well, what makes it a five?
You know?
And now you and money, or you and your mental health, or you and relationships you know or whatever. But do you feel like you did life on autopilot for a while? Do you like people do do you think like just do you know what I'm talking about? This idea of kind of just like, I'll shut up after this. Many times where somebody who's like ballpark forty or fifty sit with me and they say to me, this wasn't my plan. And I see the plan and they say, what do
you mean? And I go, there's no fucking plan, right, There's not a plan at all. There's just an idea in the back of their head of how things would turn out. Yeah, went about the idea of living with intention and purpose and even goals and structure and all that shit.
Yeah, So I think that whole thing about living sort of.
What'd you say on autopilot?
For me, it had this When I look back, there's this kind of sense that I was always just slightly outside of myself, right, like just doing I don't know, like just doing what everyone else was doing. Or yeah, I didn't really have I didn't really have an idea of what I wanted my life to look like. So I kind of for me, it comes down to I actually just want to live my best life. I'm now more than halfway through, assuming I'm not going to live past a hundred.
Yeah, I'm more than halfway through.
And my son always says, oh, do what you want, mom, it's your eighty years, you know. And I'm like, okay, Well, if it's my eighty years, then I want to live the best life possible. And in order to do that, I need to have now healthy connections, healthy relationships, all those things. So that was, okay, well, how do I do that? Will I need to address my ship. So we went and did that, and then it's like, so, you know, I've lost in the last two and a half years.
I've lost thirty five kilos.
I've maintained my weight now for about twelve months, and and I'm about to start working with a new coach, and I'm going to do another prep and go into another fatous kind of phase.
And and I don't really need to. I don't really need to. I'm healthy, you know, but I just want to.
There's things that I don't want to get to eighty and go I wish I had of Like that's what drives me. And so living intentionally, it's like, and I said this to my son, just tonight.
You need to you need to work.
Out where you want to be and then do the things to get there, like instead of looking for I think the other thing that I used to do a lot of was just looking for external validation in every moment.
So everything that I was doing so looking for.
And you know, when I was talking to my son, he's very smart, Like he's really intellectual. He's very insightful, and he lives in his head and people tell him all the time how clever he is, and and but he lives in this intellectual space of getting the external you know, validation for that, And I'm like, would you need to get out of here?
And who cares? Who cares? And then what so you're really smart? But then.
Yes, what are you going to do with it? Well? I think that you know when you're good at something, and whether it's dance or whether it's spoil or whether it's like you're a smarty pant or an academic genius, or your sense of self and self worth and self value and identity get intertwined with that. Yeah, you know, so you.
Go, oh, you're the brilliant one, You're the Oh you're the student, you're the star, this that, or you're the footballer, or you're the netballery, you're the dancer, or you're the and then so that gives you a level of social currency and acceptance that you think you wouldn't have without it, right, Yeah, you know.
For me it was it's kind of similar to him, I guess. So all of his friends look go to him for advice because he's so he's the wise one.
And so I think for me, a lot of.
My life, my value, what I believed my value was was in helping others.
So I would seek help people that need to help. Yeah, right, you get the external validation. And now I'm like, you could make an appointment or you know, so yeah, the.
I think an issue, Sorry, I think an issue is I could be wrong. This is what I think about you, and also I think similar about myself and even still right, I don't think you understood your own potential.
Nah, No, my dear.
I think there was a massive chasm between what you were capable what you are capable. And I think this is true for many many people knowing you early days. I think the massive fucking gap between what you are actually capable of. So let's talk about possibilities, power potential, right, yeah, and you're thinking about what's possible for you, right, And I think that it's out and this is like a
cognitive mind fuck. But I think what gets in the way is not our absolute potential or our IQ or what we're capable of, but rather how we think about all of that. Yeah, and you know, even myself, I've ah, yeah, I've got shit genetics. I'm dumb on this. Like you hear me talk about myself like I'm a piece of shit, And that's kind of like I do that sometimes even now, just in case I fuck up, I've given myself a get out of jail card, right, Yeah, because I'm the
dumb one with not very good genetics. That's just fucking his way through life.
Right.
But and I don't think you need to step into ego or arrogance to go Actually, I'm pretty fucking capable. That's that's just true. And because I think that for most people, most people can do some amazing shit if they can lean into their fear, lean into the uncertainty, lean into the unknown, go fuck, this is going to be hard. And also that's fine.
Yeah, you know that was it was actually, you know, over the years you have, you have conversations with people, and you know, there's things that stick. And I just remember being at my lowest, you know, I'm being in tears on the phone with my one of my closest friends, you know, really not in a good space, and she just said to me, she said those words, like she said, when I look at you, I see someone who's really capable.
And I just was like, there was this moment where I was kind of.
Like a glitch in the matrix where I was like, what like capable and me in the same sentence. And she wasn't referring to anything in particular, but just you know, I had just never considered myself capable of anything really, and it was a real turning point. It was one of those It was just a few words that she said, but it stuck with me.
I think our emotions hijack our possibilities, you know, you know, whatever it is, self doubt for you, fucking or mind overthinking.
You know.
You said you said before I wrote this down that you had to you had to address all your own shit. Could you tell us like what that involved? Like, what what is this ship you speak of? Grasshopper?
Well, I think we spend a lot of our lives, and I think it comes from childhood. I think, you know, we don't no one wants to be wrong, no one wants to get in trouble, and so, you know, looking for that external validation to For me, it was I'm and I think you know, growing up with a mum with some pretty significant mental health issues, I was always looking for someone to tell me I was a good person, right, And so I would go out of my way to be a good person and then get upset when people
didn't like I didn't understand why people didn't kind of reflect that back or I wasn't treated the right way, and then so I had to Really it's that whole you know, people talk about it.
It can be shadow work or meeting yourself.
It's almost like the metaphor is sitting in a room full of mirrors. Like because none of us are perfect, and we all have blind spots.
And we all have behaviors.
That are unhealthy, we're all we've all got unmet childhood emotional needs that we're trying to get met in adulthood through fucking dysfunctional behaviors or whatever. Yes, you can't like you're not human if you don't have any of those things, yes, so instead of but we spend our whole lives running from them or trying to prove that they don't exist.
So for me, it was very much about sitting in a room metaphorically of mirrors and actually looking at the parts of myself that I didn't fucking like very much and actually just instead of rejecting those parts of myself or berating myself or going into any level of self loathing for not being perfect, it just was like, and I think I mentioned to you last time we spoke about that self compassion stuff, it's like, you did the best you could with what you had, and now you
know better, you can do better, and having compassion for those parts of myself that were just trying to survive. They were just trying to get their needs met, so you know, and it's okay. The way that you did it, the way you went about it, probably not the healthiest way, and you've probably done yourself some damage or maybe you've
hurt some other people in the process. But now that you've looked at it and accepted it, and it's I don't reject it, and now I kind of feel like this whole thing around the confidence thing.
It's like, I've looked at every.
Dark corner of my psyche, so I thing you say to me is going to upset me. Like you can't say, well, you're this or you're that, because I'm like, yeah, and I kind of I accept that and I'm doing the best I can to be better or whatever. So I don't have I'm not at the effect of other people's opinions of me anymore because I've seen the darkest heart myself.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's so brave. That is that is a whole level of self awareness that a lot of people don't get to. And you're very right, like it ain't about self loathing. It's about self awareness, self reflection, you know.
Yeah, and the reparenting, you know, like it's the it's those parts of us that are doing like behaviors, those dysfunctional behaviors.
They're they're the child part of us.
That is trying to be loved, accepted, the lude, you know, So if we can have compassion for that part of ourselves and it's not like it's not it's I don't know, it's like, you know, I was talking about boundaries at work today. You know how hard it is to set boundaries with people. It's not It's actually not hard for me anymore because one or two things is going to
happen when I set a boundary. The person's either going to step up and respect it and understand that my boundaries are coming from a place of self reverence and mutual reverence.
So they're either going.
To step up and we're going to have a great relationship or friendship or whatever, or they're not going to like the boundary and they're going to fuck off.
A worry.
It's a win right the way, I'm good because nothing changes for me.
Yes, yes, So what is the what is the balance between? Well, where is the line between something I've been thinking about later lately, and it's like, Okay, you did the work, you got to the top of the mountain, you won the race, you made the money, you built the business, you got the PhD I'm talking about in general, right, and then it's a now what a now what? It's like,
what is the what is the balance between? Yes, like even me who talks all the time about for one of a better, less wanky team, it's pretty wanky, but we'll use it, you know, self optimization. How do I get the most out of me my brain, my mind, my talent, my resources, my genetics, whatever, my time, my money.
How do I get the most out of me so that maybe I can live a life or a version of my life that's better than the current one, in a version of a body that's better than the current one, with an attitude or thinking that's healthier, you know, all that kind of stuff. What's the balance between doing that and also just having fuck off? Where it's just like what or fuck? All days I should say what are you doing? Fucking Like? I feel like sometimes even for me, I have to go, hey, you don't have to be
productive today. You don't have to get anything fucking not that many of these days for me at the moment where I'm at. But you know, as soon as I'm through this phase of my PhD stuff, you know, But where the balance between being proactive and productive and effective and high performing and ticking boxes and exploiting your opportunities and your talent and fuck yeah, but also just laughing at silly shits and being a normal, regular human. Is there a balance for you? Well?
I think it comes down to what the what's driving it? So when I first started my undergrad degree, I was trying to prove that I wasn't all the things.
That people said I was right because I got divorced and my ex husband said to me, yeah, you're just You're just going to be a single mum. That's all you'll love would be. And I was like, fucking watch me.
So yeah, so in interrupt and I interrupt. Do you think that's a good thing? Rarely speaking when you're your driver is basically to prove someone wrong.
No, well, this is where I'm this is where I'm going.
So when when the drop, when the driver is where you're running away from who you are rather than running towards a better version of yourself. So there was a point where I was pushing so hard to be different, to prove whatever that I made myself really unwell right because I was working, I was burning the candle at both ends and fuck you all and I'm going to prove you all wrong and blah blah blah, and all I did was made myself really sick. That was when
I put on heaps of weight. I ended up in hospital with a stomach hernia and like it was just and then I shifted to I'm actually what I'm actually doing is moving towards instead of moving away from from a version of myself.
That I loathed.
Yeah, I'm now moving towards a better version of myself. And I don't know what that is, but let's just see how it shows up.
And so.
If I and now, my health is really important to me. So I push and push and push, and then I go. Then everbody goes or my brain goes, yeah, not today, And so I just I won't.
Right, I wait, right, I want you to, so you tune into that, you know, for one of a game like that in a wisdom, that kind of internal sat nab that's kind of guiding you and gently kind of going, hey, maybe not today, maybe tomorrow. So you pay attend to that.
Yeah.
Yeah, And when I'm on, I'm on like when i'm when I'm in, Like you said to yours, I actually sat too many hours on the laptop yesterday. But I was on a roll and I was and I was in flow and I was being really productive and then I was like, eh, I'm going to take it easy today because I pushed yesterday. Because it's always going to be there, like there there's no one's going to die if I don't finish the PhD in three years. No
one's going to die if I don't. You know, what's the worst thing that can happen?
And upset? Hey, can I give you a compliment?
Sure?
How many podcasts have you been on in your life? Like episodes? Like so this is two on this one?
Yeah, I've done two with Tiff, Yeah, and I've done maybe three others.
So you've done seven interviews or podcast chats in your life.
I think.
So you're very very good at this, and I should probably tell you that off air, but I'm going to tell you on here.
Should I have my own podcasts.
You should, Well, I tell you why you're great because there's no bullshit, there's no person, there's no razzle dazzle like I asked you, like look, and I'm not. I mean most of my guests are somewhere close to that. But there are people that come on and it's it's very nicely. I'm ungrateful. This is the problem in my mind, I just ship comes out. No, But there have been people on that I get off and I'm like, not many, but that was bullshitty, Like that was just you know that?
So no, that was somebody doing a public appearance of saying all the things they think they should say. But what I love about you is, you know, so you're on this academic journey, which is great, this personal and professional development kind of path that you're on, which is amazing, but you're also you've been an experiential learner at the cold face of life, doing shit super hard. Right, So I definitely think you you could do. Do I think you should. I don't know that's up to you, but
could do? I think you could because I think what people value, especially I don't know not all people, of course, but I think my listeners value not necessarily me, but they value conversations that they know. There is nothing scripted, there is nothing choreographed. They clearly don't have a fucking plan, which you said. I sent a message to you, said do you want to do a podcast later? And you went,
you're funny or whatever. I went, well, whatever, you know, I'm a little bit disorganized lately, like the next few days a chuck a block with pre organized guests. But and I said, anything, you have you got any ideas for where you want to go what you want to talk about? You went nope, And I went gide up see you at six, right, and even before we started, like we spot for one or two minutes, I'm like,
oh fuck this, let's just catch up. Let's catch up while we record, right, Yeah, And you know, there was no we didn't have any discussion about what we were going to talk about. So you're very I just think I want to recognize that, you know.
Thank you, and I appreciate that because I think what happens, well, what happened for me is I became so exhausted from trying to be whatever I was going to be accepted or what you know, like turning yourself inside out to impress or to have you know, I mean I probably did it with you you over the years, you know, all the workshops and that. Yeah, I'm doing really well, you know, like I don't even fucking care anymore. Like it's just it's like it's exhausting. It's exhausting to live
life not being you and not being authentic. And I have no doubt that my age has a lot to do with it. And you know, they people joke around how menopausal women kind of don't give it lying fuck about anything, And it's because.
Our hormones change it. We're no longer as agreeable as what we used to be.
And I'm sure that that has a lot to do with it, but I don't think it's a given that that's going to happen for people. And I think that it is doing the work, and it is looking at the stuff, And you know, I just want if I've lived my whole life wanting people to see me and recognize me for being a good person or being whatever, then I have to show up but authentically. Otherwise, any compliment I get, or any feedback, it's it's external feedback
I get. It's not really valid anyway, because if you're not being authentic, then what are you getting feedback on?
Like, yeah, and you know the irony, the irony of trying to impress people by you know, manufacturing some how you think they will be impressed, Like, what do I need to do to be impressive? Yeah? People see that now, Like, and the irony is the thing that you want, which is to be impressive. You're pretty much the opposite. And then when you finally give up with being the people pleaser and the whatever and you're like fuck it, I'm just going to be me, Then people like you more anyway.
Yeah, yeah, and the people and the people that you have in your life sorrow that as well. So like my friendships are all really meaningful, genuine authentic friendships because we're all we're all the same. I can't be around I can't be around fake anymore.
I just look.
Yeah, you know it's that.
It's and perception management. So trying to manage other people's perception of you is fucking exhausting.
Someone should do a PhD in that.
That's what I'm doing, that's what that's what you're doing.
What you're doing, Yes, exactly, exactly understanding how it says.
Now there would be reticent and meat. Let's see if you can answer this in one minute, because I want to kind of send you on your I don't want to keep you forever. But you said ten to fifteen minutes ago you lost thirty five kilos in the last however long, and there are people listening to this going
ask her about that. How did you do that? And also how does a menopausal woman lose lots of You know, I'm not saying anyone needs to or sure, don't fucking send me, but you did lose thirty five k's give us slight the sixty second synopsis of how you did that and why it worked.
This time, I was introduced to a completely different concept of eating, which was not starving yourself.
Wow, took a thought.
So I gave that a god under a guidance of some coaches, and was very kind of hesitant. But like, I lost thirty five kilos eating around nineteen hundred calories. But which is you know in my mind, you know in the past you always had to eat twelve hundred calories to lose anyway, So strength training, I was like, I need as much muscle as I can possibly put on my body so that I can eat more food. And so strength training eating tracking my food.
And I just enter up.
I just tell people why being muscle matters is because must what we call metabolically active. And so what that means is, let's say we had two identical Nicoles, and let's say out about what you way, I don't want to know, but let's say we've got a seventy kilo Nicole who's strong and jacked and got lots of muscle, and her twin sister, who's also seventy k's with the same genetics, doesn't weight train. She's the exact same weight, but her body fat percentage is higher and a lean
tissue percentage is lower. Same weight, genetics, same body. Essentially, that's done different work. Well, the more muscular seventy kilo version of Nicole needs more calories per day just to break even, so muscle muscle is actually a metabolic advantage.
Yeah.
So yeah, so strength training tracking, Uh, discipline, doing the things even when I didn't really want to do them. Discipline is freedom for me now, so yeah, that's how I did it, Just commitment.
That the show. Discipline is freedom.
Discipline is freedom. Consistent imperfect action.
Wow, oh hang on consistent imperfect action. I probably shouldn't write this down as where, but anyway, fuck it. Hey, how can people connect with you if you want to be connected with or but I don't know, Like, I know, I don't know on socials. I know you're on socials.
I don't really most of my socials are private.
But I mean LinkedIn is probably if you want to if you're interested in like where I'm going with my research and all that sort of thing. So LinkedIn is good. Nicole Adele on LinkedIn, you can send me a request on Instagram Nick underscore Laddel, I'm not on there a hell of a lot.
But yeah, I realize I haven't asked you at all about your research. Well, you'll have to come back and tell us. I mean, I know we did the first time, but just quickly before we tell people what your research is.
About, it is, I'm looking at intimate partner violence, specifically the use of technology to perpetrate intimate partner violence, and I'm looking at how we systemically respond to it. So we're looking at the system's responses to like what enables it systemically and how we can address it.
That is so important, that research and so unfortunately relevant. Yeah you all right, we'll say goodbye a fair bit. You're a gun. Congrats and and talk again.
All right. Thanks Tops,