Bobby Capuccio, Welcome back to the show, my friend. How are you.
I'm doing all right. I think I feel like I got this Princess Leia thing going on with these headsets. I just noticed that.
You look beautiful, and you're in a new place. I said to him, he's moved. I won't tell you what city lives in. Well, I can probably tell them you live in San Diego. That's not a big deal, is it, But I said.
It's nothing to be ashamed of it.
He's recently moved houses. And I said, oh, where do you live now? And he said, I'm not far. I just moved across the car park to a close I'm like, that doesn't help, which, yeah, I didn't even know which city.
So other than I'm right across the car park from here on Hampton by the seven to eleven, I live there now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious.
Yeah.
Well, and you've got a new studio. Your studio is very nice. And you did tell tell me in secret that you've got fake bricks, So I won't tell anybody what looks like real bricks behind you, but they're fake.
But it trusted you with that. Ye last time I discussed my bricks.
With you, Hopes. Yeah, yeah, don't tell me any state secrets because all they need to do is threat to pull my fingernails, and I'm just coughing up everything. There's no water boarding happening at my joint, that's for sure. Could you imagine dealing with that? I often think about because I watch a lot of bullshit and I listened. Have you ever listened to The Gray Man the book series? Now you heard of The Gray Man?
Now?
Ah? Oh god, oh if you're a I'm being very sexist here, but it's probably more a guy thing than a girl thing. But if you ever just want to escapism. Although I'm sure some women listen to espionage and spy stuff and killy stabby you know, good guys, bad guys stuff. I'm sure some ladies do, but I've never listened to like, in the last I don't know, thirty years, I probably
have not read a book that's been fiction. I'm always just like you, just reading stuff that I think on some level I'm going to learn something, but about.
I don't know.
Not that many months ago, three or four months ago, I went, I'm going to listen to just something which is just it's bullshit. It's not real. It's a story, and I'm not going to listen to something to learn to educate. I'm not going to learn about the brain, or the mind or the And since then, I've listened to nine books in the gray Man series, and I'm a little bit addicted, a little bit in this character called Court Gentry, who's the best assassin in the world.
And of course he only kills bad people. So yeah, I reckon you should take a listen at some stage.
Well, he seems like a very likable game.
He is.
He kills a very important job. He's doing a great job for society, kind of like that stuff. So is it the character? Is there something specific within the play?
Oh, it's just it's the whole. Like they're really good stories. It's really well written. You know, it's bullshit, you know, it's fictions. So the fact that people are getting killed left and right doesn't really matter. As my mum says, he only kills baddies and he protects the goodies, right,
that's what mums. Everything's goodies and baddies. So it's been Yeah, for me, who's always got my face in an actual book or my ears in an actual book or reading like you reading a paper or talking about the meaning of life and going down these philosophical, psychological rabbit holes. It's good to just get out of the rabbit hole and do something that doesn't you know, that's just enjoyment. And so for me, it's been probably an hour or a day. I reckon when I'm out walking, I often
just listen to the Gray Man. So when was the last time you read something like just a story?
Oh wow, that's very long time ago. I think it's a blind spot of mine. I think fiction. I think fiction is more real than real. And here's the reason why I'll say that. So right now, Wicked has become popular again because it was in cinema and you know, it was it was, It was okay, I kind of liked it. I just it's very hard to cinematically reproduce what happens on the stage, and the book Wicked is
so different than the actual play. But when you're reading that book, you realize that if you were reading a nonfiction book, you would not extract from it the same depth and lessons because all of your cognitive biases would pop up, and all of your filters that you navigate through life with would be ever present there, and you'd start to edit and dissect. I agree with this. I
don't like this, Oh she's good, she's bad. But when you're reading about a fictitious character, sure a lot of those filters are lowered, and it's talking about very serious, real life issues. It's talking about how we're told to look at things as a society is not necessarily how things are, and at your first glance you know very little to nothing about what's actually going on in the
lives of people in the world around you. It tackles things like fascism, fanaticism, racism, like all of the really bad isms, and I think that you wouldn't really be able to connect with the lessons that Gregory maguire is trying to convey through the storyline if it was not fictitious. I think fiction is in a lot of ways more
real than real. I mean, obviously there's not a green woman flying around on a broomstick, but what she's dealing with and the backdrop of that storyline and the arc it is is just as real as anything that we need to contend with in our lives. So I think my lack of delving into fiction is is a blind spot. I mean, of course, you know, my wife is former filmmaker.
We watch we watch a lot of stuff like on Netflix, good shows, and we discuss it and what's the lesson we can extract from that, and and what really drove the character arc? What were the series of challenges that had to be overcome in order to facilitate the transformation. There's there's so many things that that we dialogue. We
never just watch something just to watch something. But I think it's it's a lot different when you're reading because so so much of that multi century storytelling is not there, so you have to project that in the backdrop of your mind.
So yeah, yeah, I don't know, I think. But also you're right in the middle of the fiction, like so this guy was you know, her government, Operative CIA, all these things and I won't ruin it, but anyway, he's always in these very very you know, high pressure situations.
And although it's fiction, it's based in like there's a lot of truth in the organizations that they talk about and the roles that these people fulfill, and the kind of scenarios and situations and challenges that actually get dealt with, probably more than we mere civilians could possibly comprehend. Right, there's so much shit going on all of these like literally covert operatives that government sanctioned, but not government you know,
they're not government employees, but they're anyway. And I just thinking about and listening to these people dealing with pressure, like a kind of pressure that we probably wouldn't although pressure is subjective and blah blah blah, but and objective.
But you know, I'm just thinking about this guy dealing with all of this stuff and wondering how how would I I would go, Not necessarily with being a fucking assassin, of course, but just the kind of situations that you need to be in and to be able to self regulate. You know, your emotions, your nervous system, you're breathing, your heart rate, your words, your actions, your responsors, like and I think that translates well, of course, that translates to
life is how do I deal with pressure? How do I navigate situations and circumstances that I didn't choose or didn't want? And it's almost like everyone's a bit of a theoretical self help personal development human behavior genius until the shit hits the fan and then we're all fucking blithering idiots, you know. So it's like, how do I how do I be that stuff? How do I apply
that stuff? How do I make this operational functional? So that all of these these ideas and lessons that I kind of lean into, am I actually doing something with that practically, so that I'm building a version of me that can cope with stress, that can climb the mountain, that can have the hard conversation, that will actually go to the gym when I don't want to go to the gym, that will do the thing that's inconvenient because
it works like That's the the I don't know. That's the ongoing thing I think is being able to overcome that, you know, that innate desire to take the easy path or to the quick fix or the magic pill, and then you wake up and you're five years down the track and you're still languishing.
You see, But even listen to what you're saying, there are certain belief systems and principles and assumptions and that, and you've got to ask how much of that did you arrive at from your own life experiences and conclusions, which I'm sure is a bit, and how much of that did you arrive at because of story, because people have figured out there are certain patterns in life that work out best for the community, for society, and make
life easier for the individual. Like if you're someone who is working hard and you're focused on something and it's serving yourself, Like think about every single archetype. It's about somebody who is living in the status quo. But then there's an activating event, something that is disrupting someone's life for better or for worse, and they have to go
out and meet that challenge. At first, they're reluctant because we want to seek the path of least resistance, but eventually not engaging with that thing is more precarious than engaging with it. And then when we go out and we engage with that thing, we produce certain outcomes, and some of those are not expected and some of those are not desirable. So they present in terms of challenges,
and we have to overcome those challenges. And we can't overcome all of those challenges alone, so we have to then find allies and people to take this journey with us. And then we have adversaries. They want something that's in conflict with what we want. But you have to keep on the path and stay disciplined and overcome challenge. You have to challenge until you grow into the type of person that can transcend that and then you're a different person.
That's from story. So a lot of the societal like principles about how you should be to live an effective life, it comes from fiction. It comes from those archetypes. So those narratives, I think kind of help to shape us and guide us. That's what makes a great character. Can I identify with this person? Now, obviously I'm not an assassin. I would make a horrible decision. I mean, don't give the Turette's guy a gun. You might as well give a chimpanzee like a gun and cocaine and let him loose.
It would probably be a better idea than giving the Tourette's guy a gun. But like, there's certain things that you see that make this person effective at well killing people, but at their job. You know, it's it's your job. You don't want you know, you don't want to judge people because of what they do for a living. And you're like, oh, okay, you know I can relate to that. Or there's a little bit something even at like one percent, I can emulate. I did an interview with someone recently.
He was he was a senior intelligence officer for the CIA. That was an interesting guy listening to, Like, Okay, when you're a senior intelligence officer and you have people under you that are spies, was it really take to be an effective leader? That was That was a very very interesting conversation.
Yeah, I'm sure it would have been. I'm sure I would love to check to that guy. But I think also though I could connect. And there are people who do get dealt hard hands, or people who do have challenges arise, and not everyone always takes that challenge like
some people capitulate, like some people, you know. And that's the like learning, learning from these stories and these archetypes and you know, all the stoic kind of messaging that we're getting these days, which seems to be super prevalent, which is good because most of it's pretty solid. But at the same stage, there are some people that are going to be Two different people are confronted with the
same what appears to be the same challenge. One runs into it and grows and evolves and adapts and becomes fucking amazing, and the other one sits in the corner and has a meltdown. So there's there's still something on an individual level that the person in the middle of that, whatever it is, has got to be able to overcome
that nobody can overcome for them. And so while I'm all for allies and support and lavav and all of that, but I actually think for many people, it's what they do when no one's looking, no one's cheering, no one's supporting, no one gives a fuck for me personally. And I'm blessed, I'm lucky. There's no silking here. But most of my breakthroughs and most of my achievements were not because of
anyone else. I've had great people, but I've had more resistance than support, especially early days trying to get personal training operationalized in Australia and building all the shit that I did. But for me, it was more I achieved more through the falling down and getting up and the pain and the mess than somebody cheering or clapping me on. That's my story anyway.
And I think that's a common story. And in every story and archetype, there's a point where you're confronted with the abyss, where you have to go in that alone, you have to confront the big epic trial and the story. And in order to do that, which is really hard, because something has to die, whether literally, like if you don't if you don't succeed in this challenge, it means your life or maybe it's the person that you used to be, the life used to live. Something has to
be sacrificed. But what's on the and your allies can't help you. But what's on the other side of that is meaningful transformation. But I think in my experience it always involves other people. Like the better you do, the more resistant, you're probably coming up with a lot more resistance. I think that's true for most people than assistance for a lot of reasons. But then I think there are
times where there's nothing you can do alone. Like I was in a company meeting the other day and my boss started off this exercise where we went around the room and said, Okay, talk about your biggest accomplishments that you brought to fruition this year. That's a really great way to start a meeting because it won. It creates acknowledgment two. It identifies what we the people, the resources, strategies, environments that help you succeed. What was it about you
that you can duplicate? There's just I think it sets up a more creative open meeting. But when he got to me and I was kind of, I don't know, I kind of I'm dramatic sometimes with things. I don't know if you've noticed that said what I was being half facetious, but I really meant it, and I wanted to make a point. And I was like, you know, this is a little bit awkward for me because I don't have any wins for twenty twenty four the last year. And the reason why I said that is because we
launched a coaching program and it's going really well. But you know, sitting next to me is my operational partner and she's amazing. You love her. She's just she's just mental in all the best ways and brilliant and committed. And I love work when hard. I'm looking over at my coaches there and I'm like, I'm not sitting in those sessions, you know, like day after day with all of these clients. Yeah, I developed the curriculum, Yes, I trained them. We constantly developed, but if it wasn't for
their commitment and dedication. I can't see these people by myself, they would be they wouldn't be served. And then I'm looking across the table at my former team and I'm like, yeah, we have created and I wrote the content for it, I organized the information, and I delivered it in the field. We have twenty signature seminars that we deliver. They can all be disassembled and reassembled to meet eighty percent of our requests. So there's customization and expedience there their modular tracts,
which so there's continuity. I know they've made a difference with our client base, but it's set up those meetings and operationalized that. I couldn't have done any of that without my three partners that I used to have sitting across the table. And then I'm looking at a series of managers around the table. I'm like, I'd be useless without all of you. So yeah, without those allies, I could have really done anything last year.
So yeah, but at the same yeah, I get it. But without the syllabus, the content that you created, there wouldn't have been that to deliver and to operationalize and to share with people.
So right, so no one could say it's me it's weak.
Yeah, yeah, but there's still I mean, look, I get it, I get you, but I mean I think I'm for the average punter listening to this. They don't do what you do. They don't do what I do. Right, I'm thinking more, and what you're saying makes sense, But I'm thinking about for the average person who's gone. My life sucks at the moment, my back'sare I'm not making enough though. You know, it's like I struggle to stay motivated. It's like, fuck, my old man's a prick or whatever it is.
You know.
I just think for the average person that it's it's it's going to be you know, of course, peaks and troughs. It's going to be a grind, it's going to be it's going to be good days and shit days. It's going to be laughter and tears. And I think our.
This.
I could be wrong on this, but I feel like in twenty twenty five, there are a percentage of people, there is a percentage of people who can't kind of do anything unless there's somebody cheering them on. And I think while we all love being cheered on and we love approval and support me included, right, I love recognition. I'm an only child, I'm insecure. Fucking tell me I'm amazing. But if I can only do the work when someone's
doing that, I'm in trouble. And so I think for me, it's really very much about if there's support and love and connect and all of that, great, but not everyone has that. Like a lot of people listening to this do not have what you're talking about. They don't have a team, they don't have people that tell them they're good,
they don't have people that cheer them on. So like I'm talking to those people, I'm like, yeah, it's great if it's there, but it's like, motivation's awesome, but you don't need to be motivated to do something like you
don't need to be in that state. And I think too, you know, for the average punter who is just trying to i don't know, improve their life a bit, or their health a bit, or the bank balance a bit, or their relationships a bit, or to be a little bit less unreliable and a bit more reliable and a bit more consistent. And you know, these are the things
where I reckon. It's in those moments of self awareness and self reflection and a little bit of self control where you can start to take ownership of your own story. And that's not to the exclusion of other people in your story, and it's not to the exclusion of you helping others and serving others. But yeah, I just think that that's important.
That that we we realize that ultimately, like despite all the resources and people and friends and teammates and colleagues and all of that, which are great if they're there, but ultimately, you've got to rely on you because the only constant in your life, the only constant person in your life from birth to death, is you.
And the only person that's always with you is you, you know. And it's so much about that. And I'm like, you like, when you and I work together and we've done it a bit, I love it, and I love working with you, and hopefully that's reciprocal. But there are times when you're like, all right, well, if I'm not doing this, no, it's not going to get done, you know.
And I think those are so many airpoints. Yeah, but you know, I think there's I think there's a nuance here where I mean, with anything I'm pulling this from the meeting as well. Another question I was asked is what was what is one skill that you do not currently possess that you would really want to develop. And for some weird reason, so many people on the team wanted to do things around construction, like I, you know, I want to do like corpentry, I want to make stuff.
I want to design things, electric work. It's like, okay, wow, we could be a bunch of builders. And the point there is if you don't show up for your bit, you're not going to attract allies. You're probably not going to attract a lot of adversaries either, which is the other side of that, Like if you don't have adversaries, if you're not getting criticism, because this is something that I have struggled with a lot, and it's like, it's not I don't think it's your job to go out
there and purposely so division. There's there's already enough of that in the world. That position has been filled. You don't need to do that. But if you're not encountering resistance and criticism from people, you're probably not doing anything really impactful. Because people have their own reasons and conflicting interests, and I think that's one of the markers you're gonna show up for your job. Otherwise you're not gonna You're
not gonna have anybody willing to work with you. So absolutely, I believe in the power of teams, but I also believe in the power of individual effort and contribution and excellence.
Well, most of us are going to be by ourselves more than we're going to be around a team or a group, like over the context of our life.
And I mean, in my case, that's not a choice. I get it.
I've got a lot of issues. But but yeah, I mean I've said this too many times on the show. But one of my lecturers or one of my in fact, one of my professor's first time around at the university, he said to me, he said this to harper if if What did he say? Basically, he said, if you don't want to piss anyone off, then say nothing, do nothing,
be nothing, and stand for nothing, you know. And I'm like, it's so true, Like I'd never heard that, and I went, oh, yeah, that's you know, that the moment that you stand something, the moment that you have an opinion, and it's okay, people don't need to agree. A lot of people disagree with me. I'm fine with that. A lot of people have diametrically opposed ideas, and over time, I've changed my ideas over time. I mean, I think this is the other bit to this, too, mate, is our willingness to go.
I used to think this, but I don't think that anymore because I changed my mind. And these are the reasons I changed my mind. Is because I met this person, or I had this experience, or I had this conversation, or I did this thing, and then I had this fucking epiphany about you know whatever, like just that even down to and it sounds contradictory because I own a business and you own a business and you work in an organization as well, But like sometimes I just go
what matters, just that, just that, what matters. And I sit with people. I sat with somebody earlier this week, and I said, in the middle of all of these variables and moving parts in your life and your relationships and your health and your body and your business and your money, and I go, what matters, like what's like? What matters? And they go about what? I go, you
just tell me what matters? Because I don't know. I put up my hand and I think I've wasted so much time, effort and energy on things that in that really for me anyway, I look back, I go, that was such a bad investment. It's like that shit does really it really doesn't matter, you know. And I mean it's easy to be philosophical when people that you love get sick or die and all of that. We have our moment of reflection and we get back onto the treadmill of life. But yeah, I just think going, does
it matter? Does this matter? Does it matter that I do this? Does it matter that they liked that? Does it matter that I think A and you think B? Or is it just all okay? Like do we all need to agree? And also do we all need to fucking hate each other? You know? For sure?
Not.
There's there's this show that I was watching with my wife and it's called Dying for Sacks.
Can you just say Amy? You don't have to say my wife all the time. You can just say Amy.
Well Amy, But not anybody knows who Amy is. If I make Amy, he's watching because you're always my wife, you understand the relief because you understand Amy's relationship. I mean not everybody's going to understand that, Like Amy is my wife. So that's why I preface my wife.
All right, let's let's let's asterisk this moment on the you project from here moving forward, everyone, When Bobby says, I'm he's talking about his wife. But then of course there'll be new people. So maybe my wife.
My wife, Amy, We we are, we are a creative forced to be reckoned with.
All right, going your wife, I me go on.
So and there's this show Dying for Sex and it's about it's about this woman and it's not all about sex, which was very disappointing, titles completely misleading. And she's in remission from cancer. Cancer comes back and it's her only in like, she just has this feeling this is a little bit different than the first time coming out of remission. This this might be it and you know, I don't.
Oh god, there's a lot of spoilers in this. But she she has no choice but to confront the brutal reality of her life and the things that she's avoiding and what really matters to her, and the whole thing
with sex. Has has a backstory about something horrible happened to her when she was she was a kid, a child, and it was her mom's boyfriend and you know, you could fill you could fill in the gaps of what happened there, and she it had affected her in her relationships, her romantic, really intimate relationships, and she's find like, I have to I have to explore this, I have to figure this out because I don't have a lot of time.
And you know, throughout the throughout the whole the whole show, there's these beautiful moments where her friend is everyone looks at her as a screw up because she's this free spirit. You know, it's like the person that you know just got like everything fallen out of a purse when she
walks into a room and maybe not really focused. But it turns out that this person is a beautiful, loyal, compassionate, strong person who is the rock for her friend as she's and she's walking down that aisle towards the inevitable with someone she loves more than anyone else in the world. And then the relationship between her mom and her and how strained it is, and when she's in hospice, they're just holding each other crying because that shit doesn't matter
in the last few days of your life. It's like, God, like, why does it take this to get us to that.
You know, Yeah, I'm with you. I've thought about that a lot, especially the last couple of years. You know. I had a friend of mine, a really good friend, die about six months ago. I had another my second mom died a few months ago, and you know, and the crab died at the gym six years ago and then didn't die. And like just those moments in time
where and everybody experiences what I'm experiencing. So there's no self pity here, and there's but it just I think because in a way, the busyness of life, or the boxes we've got to tick, the things we've got to do, the money we've got to make, the conversations we've got to have, the car rides we've got to you know, that just hijacks your your attention. And it's understandable because they are a thing that on a practical, real world day to day they need our energy and our focus
and our attention. And so but that doesn't mean that underneath all that that other things aren't more important in the context of life. But I do think our our
mind and our attention does get hijacked. But I think also, like I have this little process that I do every morning, which I share with people too, mate, and it's a version of I sit at the cafe that you and I have had breakfast at many times, and I ask myself in terms of what I want to do be create today, in other words, in terms of the things that I want to do and get done, what's the best use of me today, Like what's the best use of my time and energy based on what I want
to achieve? And that that sets me up, you know, not for a perfect day, but a more conscious day than an unconscious, reactive day, a more focused, conscious, proactive day where when I do that properly, which is not always, but when I do that properly, I tend to be more productive. But yes, it is that. I think the answer to your question is, like, why do we wait
for the last whatever? I just think that because it's not in our face, and it's not you know, and it's so easy to just go down a rabbit hole of you know, nothing in particular. And I don't think that's bad, by the way, I just think that's human. I don't think we need to hate ourselves for this, you know. And even if it was a flaw like hating yourself doesn't fix it.
Sorry, that's that's actually that's the worst path forward. So Barbara Frederickson, she's brilliant. I love her work. I love her research. You know, a lot of times when we think about self compassion, we think about that is being soft or overly permissive with ourselves. But that's not the case.
Like self compassion is grit, it's rigor. And it's just people who are compassionate with themselves and their evaluation of what they've done and why are far more likely to do the work, especially when it gets hard around changing. It's people that don't engage in that. It's people that have this shame based identity about what I've done versus what I should have done, and fucking hell, I'm the one, to the point to finger here that gets stuck in
that identity loop. It's it's almost like facing the shadow aspects of your personality and understanding that and say, okay, well I accept and I embrace this, But who do I really want to be?
Now?
Now? What you know? What I mean?
What is that? So two questions? My first question is if you can remember those two first question is all right, let's just go with one. Then the other, what does self compassion look like? Practically? Give us an example, because I'm I love the idea, I don't know exactly what it looks like.
Okay, so self compassion like today today at a meeting, right, I hope that. I hope nobody's at this meeting was listening to this. It's kind of a workshop, and I meet with I meet with this, this, this group at a school site once a month, and I really like these people for a lot of reasons. And it was someone's birthday and they brought in obviously like cakes and candies, and I was feeling a little bit off today, so I was like, I definitely don't want to eat that.
And then I was like, okay, I'm hoping this is a good example. I was like, I don't want to be like rude. It's someone's birthday. It's like, oh yeah, I would love it. I would I would love one. I ate one. And then I was feeling really sick, not just sick to my stomach. I was like feeling dizzy like and confused, like like you know when you're just like taking way too much sugar, and you know I have had a propensity in the past. Fucking hell,
the fuck. You're such a people pleaser. God, you couldn't just say no and have a little bit of discipline and self respect. Fuck you always do this? God the fuck? What's wrong with you? It's like that is a great way to repeat these patterns constantly versus Yeah, you know that probably didn't make me feel as good as I want to feel. But you were basically considering someone else's feelings and celebrating the birthday of a participant that you value.
You know, I think if you looked at anybody else doing that behavior, you'd have no negative opinion. You know, next time, you might want to consider doing this a little bit differently given the outcome you're experiencing. That is self compassion, That is, like I am, I'm not an undisciplined person, you know what. That was actually fairly empathetic of you. Didn't you know, didn't really do this, or maybe you said something at some point to somebody that
in a way that you shouldn't have said it. It's not your identity, it was how you behaved in the moment. Does that make sense?
Yeah?
I does. My only question your honor is in that scenario. Either way, you're eating the cake you're eating the cake and feeling guilty and like a piece of shit, or you're eating the cake with a bit of self awareness and self compassion. Cool. What about the third scenario where you go, hey, thank you.
But no, but that doesn't that doesn't do you any good after you've already eaten the key. Yeah, yeah, okay, all right, if you're about to eat the cake.
Well when you fucking do that because you didn't want the cake, you say you doesn't want the cake.
Because in that moment, other things came up for me which caused me to reach out and eat it. One. It wasn't grand theft auto. It wasn't like, oh it's my birthday and I really like to carjack people this time of year. All right, let's go do that. Okay. That's an epic fail on a lot of different levels. It was cake. Do I eat cake all the time?
No?
And it's it's probably not discipline. I just really cannot. I don't like cake very much, and when I eat it, I pay for it, so it happens very rarely. But the point is I eat the cake. Now, I could tell myself, oh, you should have just said no, no shit. I could have said yes, no, whatever, how I communicate myself dictates the probability.
Of doing that again. You know, yeah, gotcha, Okay, that makes sense, but next time, done it the cake, but also don't cake. Tell me about the relationship between self compassion, question without notice, self compassion, self awareness, and self loathing. How they kind of like the interplay. I feel like, yeah, I feel a few things, but you tell me so self awareness, self compassion, self loathing. What's the kind of the interplay between those kinds of I guess state.
Well, I think defining them first, because the interplay is a little bit a little bit harder. You know. Self awareness is the ability to kind of like step back and observe in the moment how you are engaging with the world around you people around you, mostly the impact that that's having, and being able to self regulate behaviorally regulate in the moment in order to in order to adapt to like what information is coming up for you.
So ah, man like, like, if we're we're going through some interviewing processes right now, and you know, me and my team we get on so well, and I have one person on my team where the thing that concerns me is I always find myself agreeing with this person and vice versa. But there's another person on the team we disagree on not on mission, but almost everything else.
And I love that now we're we're really tight. Like if he was like, you know what that idea you just presented, You're a fucking idiot, I would laugh and go, Okay, tell me more about that. But let's say, you know, you look at somebody like, well, that's not gonna work, Jane. You know we've already tried that, and if you would have, if I'm not aware of how I'm coming off, i can't adjust my approach. And I'm not gonna get any further with Jane, and I'm probably gonna I'm probably gonna
hurt Jane, not accomplish what I'm seeking to accomplish. And there's there's basically no constructive reason to do that. And you're a bit of a cock on top of it, where if I could go, you know what, I'm a little bit heated right now, and based on my emotional intensity and state and how and how I'm delivering this,
I could hear this in my cadence. Let me step back and ask Jane a question or try to try to ask try to point out what Jane's concern might be that's driving her perspective and ask her a question that opens up the door for a different discussion. We can have the same conversation, but self awareness is going to make that conversation a lot more impactful. I think self loathing comes from shame. It comes from a which
is different than guilt. Guilt is where you feel bad about something that you've done, like cake related offenses, for example, where shame is feel good. I'm using that as an example. I don't think people should feel guilty about or you do something that hurts somebody's feelings and it's like, that's not the person I want to be. Guilt is really good because you can look back and go, that is not acceptable behavior and that's not who you want to be.
Where shame becomes destructive is it's not about the behavior, it's about the person.
It's about me.
This is who I am, and I hate that aspect of me that's going to come out in really ugly ways, either perpetuating that pattern or creating strong suits that are not really constructive or even narcissistic traits. To kind of deal with that, with that self loathing. Yeah, so, and what was the other one you were talking about?
What you were talking about so self awareness, self loathing, self compassion. But what is interesting? As you were talking about this, I was thinking, if only we knew someone who's doing a PhD in metaperception is understanding that you experience.
But yeah, that's that guy would have great insights.
Yeah, well I don't know. I reckon, I reckon, you got me covered half the time, more than half the time. But yeah, that that that is part of that. I talk about that affair bit in you know, in business with leaders and with teams and staff, is just just even that simple question where people can respond somewhere on the scale between fascination and curiosity and anger and defensiveness when you say, what do you think it's like being
around you? And they're like some people are like, oh fuck, that's such a good question, and other people are like what are you saying? Like your how? How? I'm literally just asking you what you think that you experience is like for the rest of your workmates or your team or your colleague.
I go, I'm interested in such a great question.
It's like, just let's not be defensive. Let's not be positive negative. Let's be curious, like, what do you think that you experience is like? Because I think that's a question worth asking and a curiosity worth having and some knowledge worth gaining, some insight worth gaining, because you know, whatever you think of you isn't more than likely, isn't what they think of you? And also how you think they see you statistically is very unlikely how they actually
see you now without feeling judged or evaluated. The more insight you have into how other people see you, the more accurate insight, the better for you, because now you can create a level of connection and a poor and trust and interaction that you couldn't without that knowledge, right, because you are operating on an erroneo assumption, which is called the false consensus effect, that they think like you and they don't, so rather than assuming how they think
or or guessing like lean in you know, and that's I'm sure it happens with you. But every time, nearly every time I do a corporate gig, I get feedback and I get sometimes they say me, all the evaluations, it might be one hundred and fifty evaluations that I can access online, and I never read one hundred and fifty, but I'll often read twenty or thirty or forty. I'm like, oh, some of this is really good. Some of this is
like a little bit emotionally oh olch. But nonetheless, if people think something, I actually want to know, because even though we like to tell ourselves, oh, I don't give a fuck what people think of me, Well, if you don't care how people see you or what they think of you, you're an idiot because it actually matters in the real world. That's not to be obsessed with. Do
they like me? We're not talking about being insecure, We're talking about literally what you're talking about awareness and being informed.
Yeah, does people's opinion of me inform me or define me? Those are two totally different things. Perfect explanation, and you can get absorbed in that. When I first started speaking, I would go through evals like like like it was Crystal Math, not like I haven't offenditedy for Crystal Math. I don't, but like someone who has an offended if for Crystal Math will go after cross that. I went after it like an addict, and I.
Would work analogy of all time. Can you come up with another one that doesn't involve a legal drugs place.
Yeah, I was, I was. I was like a dog on a bone.
Okay, here you go, here you go, or like me in a cake shop? Yeah, may at the talk shop? Do they have talk shops? So what do you call a you call them a canteen or a chaos? What do you call them in the states that that at school? Oh?
Can it would be a canteen? Or just right, cafeteria?
Oh yeah, cafeteria. It's funny.
Canteen is basically the worst.
Anyway, I digressing touch shop? There you go. What's the etymology of tuk shop? Yeah?
But Gelling, so I would, I would look through everything, and mostly I would look for the worst comments.
Yes, and I would.
I would just get so hung up on that. And again, you know, there's a couple of ways that I look at evaluations.
Now.
One if I don't if I don't get enough criticism, if there's not a few, And I don't want to get a ton of criticism because you're there to serve people. But if you get one hundred evals back and five people do not like what you had to say, you really didn't say much at all. Going back to your point about what your teacher told you in school. So
five to ten percent, that's fine. But I would get even if ninety percent came back and said, I love this presentation, was amazing, and five percent was like, oh this was good, it was all right. If five percent of the room is like I couldnot stand this guy, which happens, I would just ruminate over those. But from me, it's like, if I get to like twenty percent of people saying the same thing and not not I didn't
like him. I've had people say it like he talks too fast, he doesn't speak fast enough, too many stories, not enough stories. You know, he's got Tourette's. It's visibly distracted, you know. It's it's like this guy's so short. I can't even see him behind the podium. Where is he It's like, is there anybody up there at all? You know, so you get only just up. Yeah, I'm kind of making he embellishes, So all of this criticism, I can't
do anything with that. But if it's like, well, I don't like the way he answers questions, because I feel my first question is who else is saying that? Right? If it gets to about twenty percent, I need to make a change because I'm having a negative impact on people if it's kind of like ten percent, Because you got to ask, where have I heard this before? Is this a patent? You know, if somebody says, well, you
know what, I think you're rude. If a lot of people tell you that, often, I guess what you're probably like. You know, if a fight breaks out in every pub you go to, you'll have the problem most likely. But you've got a weigh that. Because I with the CIA guy, this was interesting if I could sum up what he said was the most important skill for leadership and in
the CIA with stakes are really high emotional intelligence. Yeah, if I don't understand how I'm affecting you, and I don't understand anything about how you're communicating and your experience, and I can't adjust to that, there are a lot of consequences. I mean, I guess, if you're a spy, the consequences are death. I guess if you're working in
a certain field, the consequences are career death. Eventually, it's going to be slower and painful, not as painful, fair enough, But you have to navigate through self and other awareness.
I did a gig for a friend. It was last year so I don't know, eight months ago and it was a free to a friend of mine who owns a gym, and they anyway, it doesn't matter where or how are why but anyway, I said, sure, I'll come and talk to your members. And I went down and they cleared out the Group X room. So there was quite a few people, not millions, but I don't know eighty people one hundred people in this room sitting on fitballs and whatever, sitting on their ass on the ground.
And I'm there and I'm doing it for nothing because I'm trying to be a good human and I'm just off and running and I'm doing my thing and creating a bit of fun and engagement. People are laughing and asking a few questions. Anyway, there's this one dude about twenty feet away from me, and he's just looking at me like you are a piece of shit. Right. Nearly everyone else in the room's nodding, engaging, smiling, and he was just giving me daggers. And I'm like, why the
fuck would you come? I'm thinking to myself, like and I was one hundred percent certain he didn't like me, and he didn't like what was going on. Almost to the point where I wanted to go, Are you okay, Champ, like, is there something anyway? Obviously I didn't, but I will say it. It didn't derail what I was doing, but it certainly distracted me. Right anyway, I got through, and you know, they seem to enjoy it. It seemed to land.
It wasn't my best, it wasn't my worst. Anyway, After the thing, people are coming up, asking questions and saying nice things and whatever. And anyway, I see this guy making his way towards me, and I'm like, oh fuck, here we go, here we go. I'm like, all right, batten down the hatches. And he holds out his hand to shake my hand and misses my hand and then tries to locate my hand and his vision impaired. He fucking loved me and loved it, and he goes, that
was brilliant. That was brilliant. So I am completely misreading something. I had made all of these stories, I had drawn all of these conclusions. I was creating stress for myself. I was getting myself anxious and angry. I almost fucking stopped myself to I almost like there was actually no problem. Not only was there no problem, he loved it. He loved it, and he wanted to know where he could hear more of me and all this kind of stuff. And I just drove home and I'm like, how funny.
Is that is?
Like I looked at something, I didn't know what I was looking at, I didn't understand what I was looking at, and I drew a conclusion and I created a problem out of nothing.
Yeah, I think we do that often. I kind of thought the story was going there, because I think anybody who's ever been in front of a room has had an experience like that with an individual or a room. Maybe you're in a certain part of the country or you're a certain part of the world where people are not outwardly expressive and they're just sitting there, Like there are some countries in the world and you've spoken in them, Where don't you dare ask the audience a question because.
They're just going to look at you.
No one is going to respond to you, and you're making all these assumptions and it's impacting how you're delivering, right, And then it turns out they loved you. And the opposite happens as well, where people are like laughing and oh this audience is amazing, and you get the emails back it's like, oh, okay, that was not as impactful as as it felt like it was. And we're making all these assumptions based on stories. Well, what do you
think is a good litmus test? Like in the moment, yeah, to can't say, okay, how much of this is real?
I did it. I did a gig last week. I'll cut it really short. But it was a bunch of people who don't normally do things like this. It was a bunch of tradees. Do you use that word in the States? Tradees now? So trades people?
Oh right, okay, yeah.
So all dudes, all dudes who work as tradesmen, right, and so this company had never done any professional development and anyway, I'm for me. I before I went in, the husband and wife around the company, who by the way, were great. They're like, so this first time I've done this, And I said, what do they think like? And they, to be honest, the guys were not excited, like it
was just a thing to do. And so in that on that day, my litmus test was really just how present they were with me and how you know, if I got a smile, if I got a head nod. It's all those like nuanced little things that you and I would notice where you know they're engaged. And also I had to I had them from eight thirty and to one o'clock, so it's a long time, but knowing how to like for me that they'd organize. Okay, you're going to start talking at eight, then we're going to
have a break at quarter past ten. At nine point thirty, I'm like, I'm not going for another forty five minutes because this is about their cognitive threshold in this environment with this kind of thing at the minute, like all the signs were there, and I said, all right, boys, so we're just going to have a little break five minutes. Check your phone, have a we have a drink, whatever
you need to do. And so I just broke it up that way where we did about four or five fifty minute installments rather than these two hour pre planned slabs, which would not have worked. So for me, it's about that, I mean, And I think the opposite of that is if there are people looking at their phone, for me, that's a that's a big red flag. That's that's an I've I've Fortunately, I don't get very much of that.
But I have been in presentations where it feels like half the rumors on their phone and not looking at the speaker, and I just my heart goes out to them, because that is tough, because you can't you can't crack the shits and tell people not to look at their phone when you're talking to a room full of adults.
Now, but that is that's the thing, Like I'm always saying, just observe what you're observing. Everything else is just a story. But that is a little bit rude though, Like because on the one hand, it's like, if you're having a conversation, that works, but there are certain rules of social etiquette you don't do that.
You know.
It's just like, wow, I agree with you. But I think if you're on stage and you go a version of how you people looking at your phone, I'm talking, that's rude. You look like a fucking EADI.
Oh god, yeah, no, you just first of all, you just took low status in front of the room and not and not in a way that is effective, like the way now you're the insecure knob in front of the room. So you just made yourself really small. I had a friend of mine who someone's phone went off in the middle of a lecture, and this lady is like quick as anything, and she's super charismatic, lodging life. And he goes to answer it in the middle of
her presentation. And this wasn't like twenty people in room. It's like four hundred people in a room, like a massive presentation. She's doing her thing. She sees this, flies straight down like she's walking towards them, and then walks past them but grabs his phone and she's like, Hi, this is well, I'm not going to say her name, This is so and so. How you doing. Oh yeah, so we're having we're having a seminar. So who are you looking for? Oh yeah, he can't come to the
phone right now. And it was just so funny. It was such a boss move. But because she was like cracking jokes, the whole room is laughing. She owned it and it was It was just brilliant because like, you're going to take a call in the middle of someone's session.
Well speaking about emotional intelligence and social awareness and situational awareness. I mean, that's the that's the fucking one out of ten version. Mate, We're gonna fly. I love chatting to you. I'm glad that you've moved across the car I'm glad that you've moved across the car park. We all feel so much better. Uh, congrats on your fake bricks. They look beautiful. How do people find you and connect with you, my friend.
Well, they can just reach out to you, because clearly you tell everybody everything. So yeah, they can get me on Robert Capuccio dot com, the self help antidote dot com. I'm on LinkedIn, You're.
On all of it. We'll say goodbye here, but my thanks again.
Thank you everyone, Thank you. Craig Jeers,