I get to him, I hope you're bloody terrific. No, this is not the show. It sounds like it's the start to the show, but it's not. It's an AD so quick run, but it's an AD for me, So maybe stay. I'm doing a ten week mentoring program. Some of you know that I do those. I've done a couple in the last few months, and he says humbly,
they've been fucking amazing, really good feedback. Lots of breakthroughs, breakdowns, wow, not too many breakdowns, few revelations, but it's not in tears and laughed, a bit of joy, a bit of transformation and inspiration and education and all of that shit. And clearly, if anyone's got all the answers to all the big questions in life's greatest mysteries, it's jumbo. It's
fatty harp. So you should definitely come. No, not really, but I have spent a lifetime swimming in the deep end of the human experience and talking to people for a very long time about their stuff psychology and physiology and emotion and career and all that stuff that kind of comprises our life and how we can think better, do better, create better, and be better. So that's what it's really about. It's ten weeks, it's online, it's on zoom, it's you know, it's you and me in a zoom room,
as the kids call it. And you can watch it in real time, you can interact in real time. You can watch it on delay, or you can do both. Some people come every Monday night, which it is, and they sit in there and take notes, and then they come back through the week and take some more notes. That's what some people do. So we're talking about brains and bodies and beliefs and bullshit and why and how
we keep getting in our own way. And we're going to unpack fear and self doubt and communication and motivation and purpose and money and meaning and mental health and a lot of that shit that we don't deal with until it punches us in the gob. So it's structured. It's kind of structured in that we have a different theme and a different topic each week. But as you know me, I'm like four year old in a lolly shop. I do veer from the intended path from time to time,
but we get there. We cover everything. It's deep and philosophical, but not cheesy and cringey and if you're expecting you know, firewalks and ice bars and unicorns and dream boards and just think positive, well you'll be disappointed. But having said that, I'll probably bring my drain catcher at least one night, so there's that. Anyway, if you're ready to stop fucking around or roll up your sleeves and actually do some work in a supportive and fun and curious and probably
sweary environment, then saddle the fuck up. Kids. We start April twenty eight. Are we there? And I hope you are too. Head to my website which is crakharperdt net crakharperdt net for all the deats, I'll get a team. It's harps. Who else would it be? It's a U project of course. How we roll here a typ central Melissa is here, Sarah or doctor Sarah is here. I am here and I can see through the rectangle window over there in what looks like a black hole with
an abyss behind her looks like eternity behind. Can I see the flames of hell in the distance? What can I just ask? Because our guest pointed out the same thing normally behind you is a YOU project kind of banner Why are you in at it? What looks like? Hell? Why are you there?
I just clicked on it before I jumped in. But you're right, I didn't quite realize that it does look like I'm in some form of black hole.
But have you seen stranger things?
No?
I haven't.
But do I look like I'm off stranger things?
Like you're right out stranger things. It's a little unnerving.
You look like you're in the upside down. You're not even here yet, Sarah. Just steady on, You're not here yet. Go on.
I'm housitting at the moment.
And I just clicked on it before I jumped in that I might just blew out the background. But yes, apparently I look quite strange.
Yeah, it looks you actually look a little bit scary because the entire thing is just blacknessed with your little, very very very white and perfect complexion like the little beacon of light.
I've just come back as a ghost.
That's me. I'm a ghost now, I reckon.
Sarah gives you a run for your money in terms of the high quality skin. Hi, Sarah officially welcome.
Oh, thank you, thank you so much, and thanks for the skin compliment. I appreciate that the camera's actually quite far away. If he's owned in, you'd see the black bags.
I'll tell you what if everyone could see you two and me, I look like a fucking old leather boot wearing glasses. It's it's sad really, But anyway, here we are.
I mean you could say anything, Why would you? Why would you say that? You could say that Mel gibson skin's perfect.
Mel Gibson's seventeen. I think he's worse than me, so right, okay, ye, yes, maybe go. Do you know who's who's got the same birthday as meat? Brad Pitt? So let's pick Brad.
Nice.
Yeah, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I don't know. Imagine being that good looking? What's it like you too? What's it like being that good looking? You too? Oh? It's hard to an anchor. You have to wear around your chair, your neck?
That's right? Yeah?
Hey, where do we find you? Sarah? Where are you? What country? What area?
I'm just south of London and that's where you find me. Got a website to perfect, Sarah Woodhouse dot com. If anyone I'm.
Going to Sarah Woodhouse dot com. Here we go. Sarah is a trauma expert research psychologist Straight Up Smarty Pants author Coach says that in her bios, straight Up Smarty Pants, which is rude coaching, creator of the freedom process, dedicated to empowering you to break free from trauma and create the life you want. There's much more, but will find out that much more as we speak. Why the interest in trauma, Sarah? Were you traumatized?
Yeah, although one of the main things you learn in the book is that most of us are, or at least we've all had the traumatic reaction. But yeah, for me. Before I trained in psychology, I worked as a lobbyist.
Wow.
Yeah, and that was it was really fun actually, because I was working for a music industry body, which was it was way too cool for me. And I'm not a cool person. Anyone knows me knows I'm a total geek and tell terrible jokes. So I had to leave that industry due to lack of coolness. They didn't tell me to leave I should anyway.
Is there a psychometric test for that? Yeah?
Basically it's how much you sweat out of your face when you're around famous people. For me, a lot, a lot. That's that's what I learned in that job. As I was at the Britain Wards. I was like, oh, no, I can't do I can't talk to anyone. I'm stumbling over my words, I'm sweating out my face, I dropping things. I just couldn't. I couldn't sustain myself and be myself around that level of coolness. So there is definitely a scale.
But my last project for them was working with a fantastic charity called Reprieve, and they basically repatriate people from essentially secret prisons, so they were really key in helping us all understand what was going on at Guantanamo. So I was working with them because what they realized is that music was being used as a form of torture. So obviously they called on us to kind of have conversations about that and support their campaign, which we did. As a result of that, I met a lot of
the guys being brought back. I met a lot of clinical psychologists who were specializing in trauma, and at the same time, in my personal life, my own therapist said to me, look, a lot of what you're bringing to me leads me to think that you have trauma. And so I was completely taken with this because the guys that were coming back for severely traumatized. You know, it was high, high levels of PTSD, you know, flashbacks, essentially
difficulty functioning, and there was me able to function. You know, I was anxious. I was highly anxious. I was having panic attacks, had history of eating disorders, so that was me and I just didn't understand how it can be the same thing. And I got completely taken with that question, really, and I approached the UNI of Sussex and just kind of set off on this. I mean, it's been nearly well fifteen twenty years of trying to figure out what trauma is because it is the most curious of constructs.
It's the most odd thing because it is both of those things. We both had trauma, and that's odd, isn't it.
So were you traumatized by listening to their stories of trauma?
I wasn't. But that is a real thing. Vicarious traumatization is a real thing. Absolutely.
We had a guest on who, well, listen, do you remember? Sorry, Jodie, You probably don't because I think I did it with Tiff. But it's that lady tip of my tongue. If she's listening to this, because she listens, I'm so sorry.
You also did an episode with doctor Ingrid on that as well.
For me. Yeah, but this lady is from Edith Cown University. She's a professor and she interviewed all these people from nine to eleven survivors and then she got PTSD from speaking. So yeah, it's a real thing, Sarah.
Oh, it's a real thing. It's it's it's huge, you know within the emergency services. You know, is a great example that the trauma isn't happening to them of course, that they're witnessing it. So it's a very real thing and it's something that you know, all psychologists, therapists, practitioners
have to be aware of. And that's especially true if they've got a trauma history, because we're more likely to have a traumatic reaction as adults if there's something there in the past that's kind of set us up for it in terms of our nervous system.
What's the relationship Sarah, between if I mean, this is a bloody messy question, but trauma, stress, anxiety, you know, are they all in the same family, are they or they just different levels of the same thing or different expressions of the same thing.
I would say yes, I would say they are. I mean, they're almost different points on the on the journey, but they're certainly all linked. You know, stress, that's an interesting one, isn't it, Because stress can you know, if you live within heightened stress for a long period of time, that can be enough to push you into a traumatic reaction. And of course then part of a traumatic reaction is
anxiety like symptoms. That's primarily what we'd see, because that's indicative of the fight flight response, yes, which is that you know, going up in sympathetic activation before you might then drop into freeze, which is kind of you know that that's real shut down. But yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I mean they're not the same thing, but they're very closely interlinked.
Is is. Obviously, trauma is on like most things, when we're talking about a physiological, emotional, and or psychological state, there's a scale. You know, there are levels like there are levels of fitness, there are levels of you know, every trauma and levels of I guess happiness and whatever the state is is people's trauma response is does the
trauma come? Obviously, there's the stimulus, there's the thing that happens, and then there's the there's the reaction and so I guess the level of trauma experienced by the person is dependent on their interpretation and their physiological response. So sorry, I'm thinking as I'm asking the question. It's fucking terrible. I apologize everyone, but I'm thinking that trauma is not a standard response. It's an individual response to what might be the same stimulus.
Yet oh totally yeah, that's what makes it so fascinating. Two people can experience near identical events and have completely different reactions, and.
One might experience absolutely no trauma and the other one experiences.
All the trauma, experiences all the trauma. Then within that, within the you know that it's not just trauma or nothing. It's a sliding scale, you know. My hope actually is that eventually we begin to realize that trauma isn't you know, the medical or the medical the psychological psychiatric of necessarily obsessed with determining as and when you reach a certain category. Yes, does that make sense? It's like, okay, you're there, you have OCD, but or whatever it might be PTSD generalized
anxiety disorder. But I think then because we tend to view I think the effect of that is that we lose sense of the spectrum and the fact that actually we're all on there somewhere just because you've reached the level at which they then diagnose. You know, it's an extreme example, but say the level for PTSD you've got to reach is ninety out of one hundred and twenty. What about the people that get eighty? They don't have PTSD? What have they got? You know, they've got express They've
still got trauma. But you can say the same of any construct in psychology. It's really interesting.
Yeah, yeah, it is that you might an incredibly valid point. All right, so I want you I don't want the academic definition. I want the Sarah definition of trauma. No pressure, no pressure, doctor Woodhouse.
Drum wrong, the Sarah definition. If I was explaining it to her mate, I'd say.
If you're just talking to someone who's never heard of the term, and they're not an academic researcher, I would.
First explain that things have got a bit confused because people use the term to describe the event, and that's why I think we've all got a bit confused. So first i'd point that out, is that the term trauma doesn't actually it's not the thing that's the trauma that's the event, the experience, the trauma is the reaction. Yeah, they're interchangeable words, you know. It's you could say trauma,
you could say really difficult reaction. But it's essentially a reaction to an experience that made you feel And I do think it's really useful to think about the three aspects of it that have to pull together because you
need to feel threatened or afraid, right, Yes. And a really interesting thing to note there is that what we're learning is especially we're all so interested in CPTSD now, which is kind of it's complex PTSD the type of trauma you get from it's essentially relational or all these kind of long living within these difficult environments, home environments often for a long period of time, and so we're very interested now in that kind of relational side of it.
And what we can see is that even shame can trigger. So it's not just fear, is what I'm saying. It's something that makes you feel really ashamed. Your body reacts to it as if it's a threat because we so need those social connections. Does that make sense? So basically it's it's it's an experience that makes you feel threatened, but that's not just about fear. And I think that's also where people can get quite confused, because threats to a human are just about threats to life. So that's so,
that's so that's one key point. So as well as feeling afraid, it's feeling overwhelmed and out of control. And it's when those three come together that that's when you see these prolonged traumatic reactions. So that's essentially what it is. It's it's in the moment, in the absolute moment, trauma is feeling threatened, overwhelmed, and out of control. That is, that is what it is in the moment as it's happening because and I and I use those terms because
they're really human. We all know how it feels to feel really overwhelmed. We just all know that, and we know how it feels to feel out of control. But what's happening underneath is that those terms are explaining quite complicated things going on in your nervous system and that fight flight freeze response that's happening, but they are our felt experience of it. So there's no point saying, okay, well the dorsal they you know, the veil nerve does this,
and if Okay, well happen. How do I know? Will you know if you're feeling overwhelmed, threatened and out of control?
So interesting because I'm thinking, like, you know, when we say all that or that's a traumatic event, but in the middle of that traumatic event, there's three people who aren't traumatized.
Oh totally. And of the people that are traumatized, you've got some that will go on to have you know, extreme levels of PTSD. You've got others that will have a fairly minor reaction that will resolve, you know, even if it's within six months. Then they'll do the processing
necessary to move out of it. Yes, And you've got people who experience post traumatic growth, so they'll have a traumatic reaction and then not only do they not have PTSD ten years later, they're awesome nearly swore then because you led the way on that they don't.
You did so fuck an awesome serious because.
It nearly said that is so that's so fascinating, isn't it. Yes, that you can actually you know, we hear a lot about that now, don't we that, Like from trauma to thriving it's a real thing. Post traumatic gross gross all so good, such a good growth is a real thing. You know, we know that adversity can not always but
can make us stronger. And you can you can see a real reaction to that concept within the trauma community, people who are dealing with trauma, because it can feel very confronting when you say that, because it can feel so wildly different to what they're experiencing. So it's such a confusing construct thing. Yes, it is a very tricky constructs.
Go fucking slippery, that little geezer, It's really slippy.
And the thing I find interesting is that I first started doing, you know, publicly explaining what trauma is, maybe five years ago, and I find it harder today than I did then because I know more about it. And then I've spoken to four hundred people with it, and now I've spoken to, however, many thousand. It is a confusing thing and an evolving thing. And actually the worst thing about human beings is our need to say we are right and we know everything right and within this
within this field. If you hear someone do that, it's like, oh, hang on a minute, that can't be true. We don't know. All we can do is observe and be open minded and responsive and curious you know, curiosity has to lead the way with this and listening to people that have lived experience of it.
I'm with you. Or firstly, you're absolutely right. It's like the more you study, the more you research, the more you dive in, especially in the pych space. You know, it's like, oh my god. You know, my research is on self awareness, and self awareness is an ocean of different things, you know, like I thought it was a glass,
it's an ocean. Like there's not even a consensus on what it is right for a start, And the more rabbit holes you go down, and the more papers you read, and the more research you expose yourself to, and the more conversations you have, which is okay, the more you realize you don't know, and the more you realize the experts don't know. They've got ideas and theories, but there's very little, especially in the sych space, there's very little that's concrete, you know.
And I think that's why. Sorry to interrupt, but I think that's why my main one of my main goals is to not say I'm I'm the queen of trauma and I understand it completely and you should all listen to me, but figure out ways to commute, just to commute to talk about it, Yes, because I think I would say to you you don't need to completely understand self awareness and be the and be the dawn of it. What you need to learn to do is communicate about it.
Because that's the tricky thing is taking these bizarre, you know, mind body things that are going on and bringing them into public consciousness and talking about them in a really clear, accessible light way. And I think academia is not good.
At that that you are very good at. I'm not pissing in your pocket. That's an Australian term. Do you use that in Britain? Pissing in your pocket?
It's excellent. I'm going to commit now to you.
Pissing in your pocket means, like, you know, kind of falsely praising you. I'm not, I'm not pissing in your pocket. But no, you're good at.
That's Why would you piss in someone's pocket that you need?
Well, clearly you're not in Australia. You don't understand the warmth to piss in the pocket. I don't know. Stop making me think about stupid fucking Australian expressions. I bet you've never been on a podcast like this Week swear
worn out every three minutes. But yeah, I think that that ability to be able, Like I don't think I'm great at many things, but I'm okay at and you're very good at sharing what can be pretty complicated ideas and concepts and constructs in a way which is listenable and use a friendly and understandable because so much of you know, science is pretty complicated. I mean, even even
trying to read academic papers is just so unenjoyable. It's like we're not right the same thing, just in a way that's one understandable and two not so fuck and boring.
Yeah, my PhD basically involved me submitting multiple drafts and my supervisor, who's an incredible guy, Professor Brown, taking out all the adjectives. And I was just like, I can't exist in this space. And here I was just like, you know, I'm a natural writer. I love it. I love using flowery language to communicate. I love that moment of connection that you get through language. It's not about that we.
Don't want we don't want any sense of you in this writing s. You need to remove all the unice, right, we don't want this cannot be engaging at all, So not at all.
At the moment, there's a whiff of it, they rip it all out. Yeah, that's why I left academia. Actually, yeah, not allowed to swear in academic papers, are you?
What's up?
You're not allowed to swear in academic papers. That's you, even if you were to reference it correctly, that's right.
But I could reference this book, which was one of my first books.
Oh wow, you really went for it.
Yeah, that was a work I just held to stop tucking around everyone. That was. That was just a fun working title for the book that I was writing, which was a small book. I've written a few. I've written seven, i think, but that was just a small and that was a working, fun title, and a bunch of my friends said you should actually call it that, and that was. That was almost the forerunner to all the fuck books.
So words, so that my book You're Not Broken and had considerably more swear words in it, and Penguin were like wrong audience, which you've misunderstood. If you swear about draw it makes it much less scary.
You and I have a similar this is very boring for the listeners. But so that book, this book that I'm showing him holding up, stop fucking around. Was followed by this book, which was published by Penguin, Well, pull your finger out, which is a shit title, right, So that was published by Penguin, and I said to Penguin, I don't want to call it that. It's a shit title.
And they went, oh, we've done all the research and the group testing and the blah blah blah, and the fuck book outsold the Penguin book about six to one, and the Penguin book is a better book with a shit title. And I said, for them, it won't work. They're like, you're the author, you just write stuff. This is what we do. We market, we sell, you know, just trust us. Anyway, I feel like I've thrown Penguin
under the bus a few times. I'm sorry Penguin. I do appreciate you that you took me under your wing.
But well they're amazing and they're keeping us on the street. And narrah, imagine the world without people telling us not to swear. I swear just a bit less, Just a bit less, guys, Just.
You should a reprint of not You're not broken, by the way, everyone have a look at that. You're not broken. You should call it you're not fucking broken, geezer.
That's too good.
You should do that.
You should do that.
You're not fucking broken, geezer, you're just having a bad day. In you an anniversary edition, I'll write a forward. Enjoy this, you fuckers. Oh that's hilarious. So is there a relationship between Like you said, jumping back into something kind of serious, but you spoke about having and eating disorder when you were younger, and did that arise out of any form of trauma? Is there any relationship with that and you know some of some of your struggles later. Yeah.
Absolutely. I was molested when I was a kid, which most bizarre thing about saying that is I had always known, and probably the most interesting and useful thing to say about that is that I was always aware, but somehow I wasn't. It was like this bizarre memory where I knew, but consciously I would just push it away all the time. And I think the fact that I think, the fact that I have that experience, and I really have that lived experience of that cognitive avoidance, helps me be the
practitioner that I am, because that is bizarre. I mean, the mind is bizarre, so so incredible, so interesting. So yes, But as I say, what you find is that there's usually a trauma before. Okay, so that was potentially you know, we don't know, and there's genetics as relevant, you know, inherited trauma and all of that kind of stuff. But say that was the first one, then it really sets you up for the next. So you know then in life that that there were more So for example, I
was I was really bullied, physically bullied at school. And that's been a really tricky one to navigate actually, interestingly on picking that because I was I was within feeling trapped, feeling out of control, overwhelmed and highly threatened and not able to leave for how many years, four or five years and deeply fearful, you know, having to run away coming home with bruises, you know, some really really gnarly stuff. And because it was prolonged that it's had it's had
a big impact. Actually. Yeah, So that's that's been a really tricky one to to unpick. And I can, and I can.
Still I wish I was there. I would have protected you.
It's awful, isn't it. Yeah, it's so awful. It's so busy and who knows, I mean, you know, I'm sure that those that they were kids, you know, Paul, then what was going on at home to make them so angry and vicious?
You know?
And and of course there's there's my part in it, which is I was the type of kid that was essentially going to let them do it.
You know.
I didn't have that that that grit, that pushback, that that confidence to kind of say no, leave me alone. So it was just years of being kicked in the head.
How are you now with all of that? Because you seem incredibly great, like, how are you are you just a great communicator? And but does that is this still hard for you? This stuff?
No, it's it's really not. I mean I don't enjoy I don't enjoy that being my truth. You know, It's not like it doesn't fill me with joy saying. But the thing that I have absolutely learn and I would just really hope that anyone listening really gets this, is that you can't heal any of this in secret. And the more that you talk about it, the more that you kind of stand up into it, into the memories, into the truth of it, your truth, not an objective truth,
but just your truth. I'm aware that people listening might be like, oh my gosh, she was only bullied. It doesn't matter. Somebody else's objective opinions of what happened to me doesn't matter. What matters is that I can stand up and say this is my truth, this is what I experienced, and yes it was traumatic for me.
Again, that's because trauma is completely personal, isn't it. It's like for me to get on stage and talk to a thousand people as exciting for a lot of people, that's completely fucking terrifying.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, It's.
All about how we respond or what that means to us. And it's not just psychological, it's emotional, it's physiological. You know, it's a full body experience.
It is a full body experience, and that's what trauma is, you know. And I'm obsessed now. Before I was obsessed with figuring out what trauma is, and now I am completely obsessed with figuring out what we do to heal it and the steps that we need to take. And one thing that is very clear is that you have to heal the body. You have to heal the nervous system because essentially this it lives on as dysregulation, right
as hypervigilance. We're constantly looking out for threats, and it's fascinating when you begin to get really clear about how it's affecting your physiology. So, for example, people with trauma have a much narrower vision because they're just they're literally looking for threats a.
Vision, literal vision as in physical literally Wow, their peripheral vision is not as good their periphery.
They when they are in hypervigilant modes, they they tunnel vision. It is complete tunnel vision. Yeah, So what they're doing and what happens is as they do that, as they begin to scan for threats, and these are often relational, right, I mainly deal with relational trauma. So they say there're a I don't know, a family, a family event, something like that that subconsciously they know this is a or the sense that this is a place where they're not safe.
So then it's one example of so many physiological things that are happening. Their vision will narrow because they're trying to literally trying to spot the threats. But as their vision narrows, then that physiological action then signals more threat to the body. So you've got this awful cycle of so so anyway, I'm using that as an example to say, okay, so what's the solution with this, With this precise example,
what's the solution. The way that you signal safety to your body is to leave the room and go and look at the horizon, right, you know that I'm just that blows my mind. But understanding that this system response is affecting the way that you move, the way that you walk, the way that you talk. So we need to learn to selectively embody safety and that's a really important part of healing, you know. And then a lot does that make sense?
Yeah? I love it. I love it. And also things like so we have a guy on here who's also doing his PhD, a friend of mine who's got a master's in uh excise physiology and nutrition, and he's doing his pH d in psych and his name's Paul Taylor. Shout out to PT. And we've spoken a bit about post traumatic growth as well. But it but the whole you know, like trauma to me seems like it's multi dimensional.
It's there's a psychological, emotional, and physiological component of course, but you know that it's unders like I think when we talk about trauma, a lot we think about the mind. But also you know, the physiological consequence of this emotional and psychological stuff is you know, like you said, is sympathetic nervous system being switched on and you know, all the stressful mons adrenaline and cortisol and you know, this
hypervigilance and elevated heart rate and breathing and this. You know, you get in that on a semi regular basis, and then you're starting to create this like inflammatory response in the body on a cellular level. And you do that often enough, and you're literally creating disease, Like you're creating physical like trauma and stress and anxiety. You know, long enough, over long enough time, often enough, literally you know, suppressed
immune system, greater risk of all of these things. I don't want to be too doom and gloom, but like nothing operates in isolation with humans. Like we kind of treat the mind and the emotions and the body separately, but it's an integrated system that needs to be treated systematically, but as one.
Oh totally, And you actually can't. You can't treat trauma if you view them as separate. Yes, it's not the mind and the body, it's the mind body. You can't that you have to pull them together into the same space, yes, or you don't stand a chance. Really, And actually the thing that has to come first is that the kind of physiological nervous system healing. So the phrase we use, which of course you would have heard, is disregulation.
Right.
So if you're living with trauma, prolonged stress whatever it is, or heightened anxiety even you know there's those three links together again, you have a disregulated nervous system. It's not operating in the way that we need it to. Essentially, that means that you go up into sympathetic activation really quickly, so you're constantly scanning for threats, things that might be wrong, whether that's in the relationship space, whether that's at work
or you know, whatever that is. And of course if you're scanning for threats, you're going to see more, right, it's that kind of tunnel vision thing. Yes, you go up into sympathetic activation and what a regulated system. It still feels stress, right, So they'll go up and then there's that lovely bell curve because then they'll come back down,
so the parasympathetic will switch on and pull you back down. Now, what we know of a traumatized nervous system is that that doesn't happen, So there isn't that beautiful rhythm that's necessary. They go up and they stay up essentially, and once they're up, once they're stressed, they're much more likely to then go into a full on fight flight freeze response and be really triggered.
Is treating trauma. I don't know if that's the right word, but you know, like healing treatment blah blah blah is like in medicine and even in exercise physiology, which is my background, right, It's everything that we do is an educated guess because not everyone needs the same medicine, not everyone needs the same program, even if they have the same goals, Right, you know, some people might want to build overall body strength, and ten people come to me
with the same goal, I've got to prescribe ten different programs because of their unique physiology and background and training history and all those variables. I would think too, that healing from trauma, recovering whatever, I would think that there's you know, there's a multitude of I guess PANACEEA is based on you know, where people are at and what
they best respond to. Because what might be healing for someone you know, it's like for somebody like Melissa who's a dog lover, lying on the floor with a fucking labrador puppy is literally therapeutic. For somebody else, it's.
Trauma regulation all over that.
Yeah, And if somebody else lying on the floor where the dog would be traumatic because they're scared of dogs. So really about the individual.
Right, that is absolutely true. And I used to be very careful in the way that I described it because what I saw was that it tended to be easier for people to begin to process. So the first thing to point out is that as we have really is that trauma exists in the body, in the nervous system. It exists cognitively, so in the mind and thinking patterns,
in overthinking, you know, all that mind stuff. Emotionally of course, which is you know, felt in the body, and behaviorally, so we see all these often it's compulsions, but behaviors designed to help us cope with moving up into that arousal aroused state, you know, dealing with that kind of too much energy, and also avoiding those avoidance behaviors. Okay, so we've got the whole raft of them, and it's really important to see that that's what's that, that's what's
going on. That we've got the main you know. So it's about the body, it's about the mind, it's about the emotions. And I used to say, or I observed that it was much easier for people to begin talking about it, gentle. Processing. Processing just means moving through something in a way that changes it. Because when we experience trauma, we don't process what happens. Okay, So a normal memory is far away in our autobiographical memory, a trauma memory.
In fact, that's an incorrect term. There's no such thing as a trauma memory. It's just this disparate, disparate spread of information. So we need to process. That's really important. We need to process, to move through the information in different ways. And what I noticed is that for a lot of people I spoke to, it was easier to talk okay, yeah, But I had another segment of people I would speak to that would couldn't at all. They didn't want to go there, and they had to do
body work for us. So they had to work with somatic experiencing practitioners say and begin to process what was going on in their bodies. And that was personality driven, you know, all sorts of things going on in that. And then also you've got people who were you know, so far into an addiction. They've got to stop drinking before they can do anything else. Yes, so it's really
dependent on where we're at. Yes, but I now confidently say that every single one of those people or personality types or you know, wherever they're at, the first point for all of us is to learn how to regular I really believe it's so keenly now that from there, then yes, you might, you might want to go and cognitively processed, you know, you do talking therapy, you might want to go down the somatic or look at your behaviors.
But we can't properly do anything until we learn to regulate, until we learn to feel how it feels to be going stress, stress, stress, stressed, and learn gentle calming ways to bring ourselves back down. Does that makes sense, because because as you're doing that, you're building capacity into the system. Once you can do that, and it's not that we need to all do it perfectly. We're supposed to be disregulated,
we're supposed to be stressed. You know, these aren't terrible scary words it's okay, but we do all, every single one of us needs to learn how to regulate.
I think it's very liberating when you realize this and a loving way. Oh we're all a bit fucked up, we're all a bit traumatized, we've all got issues, we've all been bullied or similar. You know that, because I think when you just live with it yourself, you know there's part of you that I guess intellectually, we know that we're not the only one. But in that space, in that kind of you know, in that moment, in that feeling, in that experience, you feel like it's just you,
and you feel like you're the weirdest one. Like, yeah, there are other people, but no one's as weird as me. No one feels like I feel in this moment. But it's you know, it's almost our perceived weirdness is a common bond, like we all feel. You know. I've felt in my life often weird, like I don't belong, not good enough, like not worthy enough, not fucking athletic enough, not smart, all of these things, you know. And I was in a minor way. I was bullied at school,
but not a lot. I was a fat kid, right, but I escaped relatively unscathed. But you know, all of that stuff that four decades ago, I can remember stuff clearly, well it seems clear. Maybe it's distorted, but it seems very clear to me that happened forty years ago because it was you know, and it's like you it's only relevant to the person. But as I look back now,
I think, fuck, that wasn't really a big deal. But to the fat fourteen year old, it was a really big deal, you know, and that being able to self regulate. Do we need to Like one of the things that I say, which is kind of cliche and it's making me think about whether it's accurate, is we can't overcome what we don't understand. Do we need to understand trauma. Do we need to understand how it works to be able to deal effectively with it? Or do we just need tools?
No, we need to understand that, right, We are absolutely, one hundred percent need to understand it. And I think one of the ways that we do a disservice to people is to provide really dumb down information because we need to be clear, definitely, but we we don't need to, you know, do a puppet show we're we're yes, all of us need to understand. It's not it's not hard to understand. There's the sympathetic branch, there's the parasympathetic branch.
You know, Okay, this is what's happening. It's it's liberating to understand that. It gives you a sense of control, and that is what we're looking for. That is the an today, right, Yes, you think about that, that that weird equation. I do.
So.
It's threat, overwhelm and feeling out of control. So of course clarity it speaks to that piece. We want to help people feel in control, you know, and that overwhelm also has helped I would say by by that connection that you've just talked about, you know, understanding that you're not on your own. It's actually it's normal to be triggered, it's normal to be dysregulated. Most of us have experienced well all of us have experienced a traumatic event. And
we're humans. And I'm one thing I'm really noticing at the moment is I obviously speak to a lot of therapists, a lot of trauma therapists, and loads of them recently have started using this language around how our generation is particularly traumatized because because the changes and how we talk about mental health have been so vast, and looking at how a family forty years ago was talking about emotions and what was going on in the home and what
wasn't was and wasn't kind of acceptable in terms of emotionally I'm talking about compared to now. And also an awareness of the systems that we're living in. You know, the school system, for example, promotes dysregulation. It's not great.
Yeh.
Kids are rarely taught to regulate. They're rarely teachers. You know that their role models aren't going no, no, I just need a moment. I'm just going to take a break, Okay, I just need to just rest. That's not going on in businesses or schools all across the world. Instead, what's happening is go go, go, go faster, go stronger, you know,
just keep going, keep going, push through it. You know, in our generation, not only have we got the kind of generational trauma in our systems A lot of people would say, you know, from the world from World Wars. You know, grandmother's, grandfather's parents. We're growing We've been growing up in this really intense system that requires more and more from us. Plus we were parented in a way that didn't teach us to regulate. Yes, So I don't
mean to start depressing at all. My hope is My hope is that by us conversation.
No, it's not, it's not. It's very relevant.
Because they weren't having these conversations ten years ago, exactly exactly. So the more we talk about it, and the more I say, yeah, I was I was molested, and the more I say yeah, I had an eating disorder, and the more we can move towards it and call it what it is, the more hateful that in you know, our kids and the next generation will have better tools.
You're You're amazing. I'm not just saying that, like I'm so sorry that what happened happened, but I'm so thankful that you're so evolved and so articulate and so okay that you can come on here and talk the way that you talk, because you know, it's it's liberating and it's But more importantly, I think, aspart from what you're saying, which is really interesting and fascinating and insightful and educating, I think just people listening to you, not only how
okay you are but how brilliant you are despite where you've been and what you've seen and what you've been through. Like for me, that's just as important because I find that encouraging. I find where you are at your okayness. You know that's I think that's a big encouragements people. Do you are you? It's not the right word, but you'll know what I'm talking about. Are you proud of the journey that you've been on and the how functional and how good you are despite what you've been through.
Yeah, I'm really proud. I am really proud. But I also need all your listeners to understand that my okayness is totally fallible. Okay, I am a human. I have really bad days, right, you know it's a very human okayness. And do you know the main thread of my okayness comes from complete self acceptance, accepting the things that happened and accepting my bad days, accepting that there are parts of me that misspeak, accepting their parts to me that
are anxious. Sometimes you know, it's it's it's that's it's that. I just I think self acceptance is the number of it is the heart of it.
Really, How do you balance self acceptance. Sorry, Sarah, how do you balance because I'm with you but not like what happened to you is not okay. But at the same time, there's got to be a level of acceptance because I guess you can't spend the next thirty years being angry and bitter and frustrated about things you can't change.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. I haven't really talked about that aspect of it much. Absolutely right. Of course it's not okay.
Because you're saying there's got to be acceptance, and part of me when fuck acceptance. But I know what you mean. I think it's more for your mental health than your own healing.
But at the business you know, it's not. No, it's not like a religious kind of you've got to accept it and forget if I don't mean that, it's more the phrase that comes to mind is it's calling a spade a spade. It's seeing it clearly, it's stating it. So when I say when I say acceptance, I suppose, especially in relation to our past, I think it's more clearly stating your truth seeing it, just holding it there like yes that happened, and yes that was my reaction.
No more did it happen, did it not? Should it have? Should it not? But just hold it? See it almost It's tricky, isn't it. But there is a sense of ownership there. So in that space, that's what I mean. Really, it's truth telling. That's what it Just get.
To the level of okayness that you're now at. When did you start just going this is what happened. I'm not you know, I'm not flowering it up. I'm not embellishing, I'm not value I'm just saying, this is my truth, this is what happened. When did that happen for you? When did you get there? A year ago, ten years ago.
Probably about five years ago? Really really was able to five years ago. It's a very interesting story. Having kids the same age as I was when it happened. Wow, more memories. So I had to then do a lot of work with some great therapist, great sematic practitioner, great IFS practitioner, internal family systems, which I love. It's so good to support me through that. The stuff that came up, so it's layered. You know, everyone was an onion, isn't it.
That's what they say healing it's an onion. But that is just the truth of it. You know, the only way not to do it is not to do it at all. You just little steps forward. It doesn't really matter what direction that's in. And I've always had this for us. I am in the twelve Step Fellowship. So I went to OA for my eating disorder, which is over each synonymous, terrible name for someone with anorexia. It was very very conflicting for me to go there, like overas s anonymous.
Yeah, you don't want to wear that libel? Is there? An underrated? Is anonymous? Anyway?
I think they've created one for all the egoistic anorexics that couldn't possibly walk in the room. Yeah, I'm joking. Sorry, I'm being terribly silly.
It's not.
And within that it's it's quite a spiritual thing, you know. It brings a spiritual dimension necessarily because really, you know, if you if you have any kind of addiction, you've got control issues. That's what it's about. So that there's a big dollop of let go go with the flow, try and trust everything's okay. They're trying to bring that aspect of it, and I think that was really important for me in this space around this particular.
Yeah, Wow, incredible. I don't know what your availability is, but we definitely need to get you back. I'm going to tell you right now. I can tell you that my listeners, our listeners are going to fucking love you. Oh no, your if you lived over here, would be friends. Even if you didn't want to be my friend, you would be. I'd bully you into it.
I definitely would.
Be traumatized by how friendly I was.
No, I definitely would. I'll tell you why, because all my dearest friends wear an enormous amount and it gets me in a huge amount of trouble. Safely, I went to my youngest daughter, she's four, and I went to a birthday party that was all very proper, and I ended up accidentally saying to a mum that a venture she was doing was fucking weird, and I was laughing hysterically. I meant with so much love, and I was bit I'm just I mean, I'm a I'm a schoolgates disaster. So we definitely would.
I'm sure they bloody love you. I'm sure you know you need to write a book with fuck on the front, or like I said, you need to do second edition. If you're not fucking broken Geezer.
Actually my next book. The chapter in it is called fuck the System.
Yeah. Perfect, see you liberate everyone, Sarah Woodhouse dot com. Go there, buy You're not Broken? Buy ten copies. And how do people find you, follow you and just generally fucking love the shit out of you on social media? How do they do that?
Well?
Yeah?
Please do that? Make me so happy? I'm at the Sarah Woodhouse on Instagram and Facebook, and I'm at sn underschool Woodhouse on Twitter. Sarah Naomi. You see middle name Sarah Naomi.
We've got Melissa, Marie, Craig, Anthony, and Sharah Naomi. That's perfect. Hey will you come back?
I would love to come back.
I think you can.
Liberating Glorious Experience sweary.
How much better is this podcast than anyone you've ever been on?
I mean, like a lot, or just a bit, it's so much better. I'll tell you what I'm actually I don't know if this is terrible. I think my favorite podcast is broad Topics. Have you ever heard it? No, It's it's wildly rude, but it's it's next level. It makes you seem like a preschool teacher.
I need to lift my game then, because I do not want to be seen as a priest for a range of reasons.
So I'm totally down with the vibe of this podcast. If you listen to broad top topics, you'll go, oh wow.
Yeah yeah, I'll think I need to ramp it up. Sarah stay there, will say goodbye off here. But you're fabulous and thank you for what you do. You're a gift to the world and we appreciate you. Burning on the You project.
Oh, thank you so much. It's been an absolute blast. Thank you, thank.
You, Thanks Melissa, thank you both. That was brilliant, it was Thanks everyone. Don't you just love her? Don't you want to just squeeze her a little bit till she fast with a squeeze? Yeah, squeeze would be good. Thanks everyone.