#1839 What if the Drug is You? - Harps & Tiff - podcast episode cover

#1839 What if the Drug is You? - Harps & Tiff

Mar 28, 202542 minSeason 1Ep. 1839
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Episode description

Among other things, this episode is a chat about tricking your mind into believing something that isn't real, in order to create an outcome that is both amazing and real, with your body. The chat revolves around some fascinating research that was conducted over fifty years ago involving one significant lie, fifteen athletes, fake steroids (placebos), and some mind-blowing test results. I love this story. Enjoy.

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Transcript

Speaker 1

Oh, TIF called Craig Harper, It's oh fuck, everyone knows what it is TIV.

Speaker 2

Hello, Happy Friday.

Speaker 1

I should probably be more enthusias I am enthusiastic, but I sometimes think I probably don't need to introduce the show anymore. I probably don't need to say who you are, who I am, what the show is called. Probably seven years later people know, and even the new is people.

Speaker 2

Might stumble in and go, what's this.

Speaker 1

Well they've seen that they've clicked on. Yeah, maybe maybe how are you good?

Speaker 3

Well, look, I'm good, but I've got a saw back so and it's really twingey today.

Speaker 2

So it's you know, when you got a saw back and it's shit?

Speaker 1

Yeah, where about shrawbacks? I don't think. I don't think people are now. These are first of all problems and man problems. I know, nothing compares to giving birth, and I guess at that, and but you know, pain is pain, but really bad back pain, like really acute, like fuck, I've had that few times in my life, to the point where I'm crying and I'm a grown ass man.

I'm not crying balling, but there's literally tears coming out of my face because every time I move, like it's so acute, But what's going on with you?

Speaker 3

Well, I've bent over the other day to shift a weight for a client, not even heavy, just in an awkward dist position and just and it was this feeling that was like I been waiting.

Speaker 2

I've been waiting for the moment, and this is it. If here you go.

Speaker 3

And it's been so so I went to my Cairo today and it's good. It's like there's nothing like, everything's good. The system is just protecting you and now you've just got to just got to chill out, which you know I'm good at that.

Speaker 2

I'm good at that.

Speaker 3

That was so you know, I've changed my training a bit, right, I've backed it off. I'm trying to find and what's now new, the new appropriate? And I go to him and his first thing is, well, sometimes you just got arrest iff, And I'm like, Christian, I am, I am resting because and because I'm getting all defensive because I'm like, you don't understand how little I trained now compared to what I was. It's a big change. But as I was defending myself in my mind, I was like, so

what did you do last week? So if you decided to do some hit training again, and in your first work out of that there was one hundred and fifty plometric box jumps that you did, and you did that same workout three more times over the next week and a bit. He also did some ninety kilo deadlifts, all things which weren't in high rotation in your previous training. So take your I am Christian and stick it up your balm.

Speaker 1

You're lying, Yes, it's not like you to be irrational or emotional at all, so I'm okay, I'm astounded, And also that you would be defensive about anything it again.

Speaker 3

So it's not until you hear your own voice stating your case that you realize you're bullshitting.

Speaker 1

Well, it's like before we were it's now one thirty eight. We were meant nine forty. We were meant to record at one thirty and I'm in there. I was in the zoom room and I'm like, where the fuck is Tiff? I was in at one twenty seven, and at one thirty three I sent you quite a self righteous message going are you coming? Like are you are you joining me today? And then you sent me one at the same time, which was pretty much where the fuck are you?

And then mister self righteousness may or may not have been in the wrong zoom room, and I wanted to be mad at you. Not really, I didn't really everyone, but I wanted to blame you. And then as I was undoing that, I kind of went, yeah, I think I clicked on the wrong thing, so that'd be me,

but I understand it not you. Not wanting it to be your fault, because the beauty of that when it's not, you know, when shit's happening to me and it's not my fault, well then I don't have to take responsibility, and I'm very good at that.

Speaker 3

Well, it also felt like I have really backed things off and made some you know, and I wanted to acknowledge that to myself, and I didn't want to admit that in the doing of that, I'm still I still haven't got it right.

Speaker 2

And so it's like it feels.

Speaker 3

Like admitting that I'm the problem, which I obviously am. I also can't acknowledge that I have done some really smart things with my training and movement.

Speaker 1

Yeah, of course, of course. Well I mean apart from you know, and if every now and then you have a bit of a back injury, which is somewhat debilitating, not massively debilitating. Well, in the overall scheme of things, you're going pretty good, you know, right, I was going to say you're forty two, but we all know you're not forty two?

Speaker 2

Almost though, Huh.

Speaker 1

When's I now? I've asked her, when's the day again?

Speaker 2

Best of May?

Speaker 1

Wow, it's not far away. I'm not going to ask ever again May one. Well, I had been wondering whether or not I'd offended you because I have not seen you at the gym. It feels like a month, but it's probably a few weeks. So what have you been doing? Like, what have you changed? Because I actually want to talk to you about something today which is fucking fascinating and it's about the mind and it's about the body, and it's about training, and it's about drugs and it's a

story so interesting. But what have you changed with your training and why? Well?

Speaker 3

I've changed well, because you know, I've struggled a lot over the last at least twelve months with recovery and training intensity and getting that right and fatigue and watch, you know, is this burnout?

Speaker 2

Is it perimenopause? Is it?

Speaker 1

Like?

Speaker 3

What's going on? Why am I not able to do what I could do before. And I guess just like I came back from Tazzy and the little bit of disruption with my gym closing for a few weeks meant that I had a bit of a change in things. So I decided to take some days off. So I've changed the structure of how I work, which.

Speaker 2

Is very long overdue and very grown up of me, but also.

Speaker 3

Signed up for a course, so changing the way that I work, so rather than doing everything every day, I'm trying to add structure but still keep the level of variety that I need in order to be tiff and b bit so spontaneous and not get bored. And then trying to structure what does tif's training look like now

that it's different. Before it was doing something every day and I'd slott it in and be all over the place and it'd be a bit of boxing, a bit of everything, and it's like, Okay, what does my body need because I can't do that because that is burning me out. So I feel best were some high intensity training. I'm trying to reintroduce that there was a period, a little period of time where that just my body felt a level of disdain at the thought or the action of doing that.

Speaker 2

I'd want to do it.

Speaker 3

Then I'd start training and be like, I hate this. My body hates me right now. So a little bit of running in the interim and running, bit of strength and now just trying to figure out, well, if I do do HIT training doesn't have been our how long does my body want to do it? And then how much recovery do I need in order to feel great doing it because I missed Doing it makes me feel great, but I have to get the timing and intensity right.

And one hundred and fifty box jumps in a session three times that week probably has come out as not being the greatest plan.

Speaker 1

Wow, who would have thought. Maybe you could have rung your friend the scientist and said, I'm thinking of going from zero zero box jumps to one hundred and fifty times. Haven't finished. Sorry we're talking while you're interrupting, right, Sorry, But you might have wrung me and said this is my plan. What do you think of my plan? And I would have gone, oh, hang on, let me think. No. No. On the outside that was used to own a jym and is a trainer and was a kind of a

professional athlete. How does that girl make that decision.

Speaker 3

Because she has one set of rules for her clients, and what set of rules for her?

Speaker 1

Now, just quickly, for the thirty percent of our listeners who are going, what is HIT training? Could you just give an example of what HIT training is for our listeners who are thinking what is she? Well, if it's not running, and it's not bike and it's not lifting weights, what the fuck is it?

Speaker 3

High intensity interval training? So I was training hard for a burst of time and then recovering in between. When I say HIT training, for me, I like to do it in the form of things like kettle bells or plyometrics, jumps and things that are quite intense and explosive. But it can be. I mean, you can do HIT training with running. It's just sprint training. So it's just training at a high intensity resting in between.

Speaker 1

Yeah, interval based stuff. And so when you're back, was that its worst? How is it right now in this moment? Is it at its worst now? Or is it a bit better?

Speaker 3

I'd say it's kind of it's tinkering on it's worst still now it's gone ebbed and flowed a bit, but it's just a real you know when you get that sharp pain and it's kind of like right now, it's just there consistently. And I'm supposed to meet a friend's turning fortieth heavy birthday, Tarran.

Speaker 2

She's turning fortieth this week.

Speaker 1

But.

Speaker 3

I'm supposed to meet her tomorrow on the motorbike in back Marsh. We're going to ride to Bendigo to her play. That was all planned and I'm like, I can't. I'm not like, I can't be getting on a bike, especially not for that much time.

Speaker 1

No, that is not it. You know. It's a friend of mine. His name's Mark. He listens to this sometimes, not the Crab. Also. Mark is a friend of the Crab and mine. But he's a trade and he does stuff for me. He's amazing. Anyway, the other day he was driving his ute, his big ute with his big trailer, and someone ran up the ass of his trailer, which then smashed into his ute, like totaled his trailer. They're not sure about whether or not the ute's going to

be a ride off. Anyway, I just went from one of my thirty two walks a week that I do just before this, and I bumped into him and I'd heard about the stack, but I hadn't spoken to him. He's just working eight hundred meters from my house and I'm like, should you be working? He's like, oh yeah, I if I move, I'm all right. If I sitting's no good. I'm like, okay, what did you do? You know, you know blokes that are like blokey blokes. He's a blokey bloke, bloke bloke right. I'm like, all right, well

what did you do? And then he described in some detail. And then I was just looking at his body and I looked at one forearm and it's twice as big as the other forearm, and so I kind of grabbed it gently to kind of you know what they call pal pate it, which is touch it. And I'm like, I touched it. And I'm like, does this herd here in Nelly fucking fell down? I'm like, I think you've got a broken arm. I go, what did you do

to this? And he's like and he described what he did, and I go, so, you know this forearm is twice as big as that forum? Yeah, yeah, I go, how sore is? It's like very I go have your hat at X ray. He's like, no, should I I'm like, I think, so, I'm not a doctor, but that looks broken as fuck to me. And then I'm like, what about here? Ribs, back, shoulder. I'm like, dude, please like and he's working, he's on the tools. He's like, I'm

all right if I keep moving. Yeah, you're not You're not. No. So what's it like when you get out of bed? He goes, yeah, no good? I go what happens? He goes, it's pretty hard to get out of bed, and then it's pretty hard to stand up. I'm like, oh, well, of course you'd be at work wielding tools and doing a heavy, heavy physical jop so I know. Oh no, it's like the opposite end of the you know, like, what do they say a self care day? He's doing like a self destruction day. I'm like, dude, and I

said to him, did so he saw the doctor? But I don't know, maybe he didn't. I don't know who he saw. But they didn't do any tests or X rays, and they gave him a bunch of pankiller. I'm like, so, what are you taking as Oh? Nothing, I'm like, okay, well, maybe like if the doctor gave you something, firstly, go back see the doctor again and show them your big fucking fat arm. Ah. So I'm on the side of the street in Hampton holding this bloke's arm and just

poking bits of his body randomly. It would have looked interesting, trying to trying to, you know, not really but diagnose what the fuck is going on. I would not be surprised if he's got multiple fractures, like his back is really saw his shoulders fucked his elbow. His elbow could

be broken as well. It's like there's I'm like, yeah, it's good to be tough, but it's also good to be you know, smart the hell speaking of training, I want to share this with you, right, So I love this Now full disclosure, everybody, Obviously, this is not what I'm about to read as written by me. It's an article that was written quite a while ago by James Clear. You know who he is, Tim, Yeah so the article. Yeah yeah, yeah, So you can look it up. It's

interesting to read. And what I love about this is it just reinforces. It just reinforces how fucking amazing humans are when we can get out of our own way. Now, I don't want to give you any more than that, because you're figured out as we go. So I'm just straight up reading. This is called what Happens when you Believe You're taking Steroids by James Clear. If you google that, it'll come up. Fifteen athletes were scattered around the room.

Everyone was looking at Gideon Ariel. Now, Gideon Ariel is the guy who did the original research on this, is a PhD researcher. You can go and find the original paper, which I also did, but I thought i'd read this article because it's much more user friendly. So he's the lead researcher, and he also did it with I think he did the research with one of his PhD students or you know, graduate students. Anyway, So fifteen athletes were scattered around a room. Everyone was looking at Gideon Ariel.

We're going to give you steroids, he told them. It was nineteen seventy two, an Ariel was conducting a study on athletic performance with his research partner, there you go, William Saville. On this particular day, the two men were offering the athletes an interesting proposition. Now I can give you a bit more context because I know the background.

So they weren't necessarily athletes per se, but they were people who trained regularly, and I think they all had a minimum of two years training before this research was done. It's about strength training, and so they all had a fair level of strength, a fair level of conditioning. There were no absolute novices or beginners, so you could say,

for the most part, they were experienced weight trainers. Now, with that in mind, somebody who's already training a lot that are about to go into a study where they're going to do the same lifts they've been doing for the last two to ten years, you wouldn't expect a lot of gains to happen because they're already doing all that stuff anyway. It's not like anything new is being introduced. So that's the background. So on this day, the two

men were offering the athletes an interesting proposition. Ariel explain that the study would last for eleven weeks. The athletes would lift weights for the first seven weeks, and those who made the most improvement during that the seven week period they would be rewarded with dianabol, which is an

anabolic steroid, for the final four weeks of training. So the gist of it is, all these dudes got together, they were going to train for seven weeks, and whoever improved got the best improvements, the greatest adaptation, the biggest numbers over the seven weeks. They would then be put on an anabolic steroid for the final four weeks, all under control conditions, all done with ethical approval from the research from the the research lab in the university. So

all tikety boot, all scientific, right. What the athletes didn't know was that the researchers were lying to them. After the initial seven week training period, the scientists randomly subject selected six athletes as the winners. However, despite being told that they were getting real steroids, the athletes actually received placebo pills. What happened next surprised everyone. Four weeks later, when the researchers conducted the final testing, the athletes set

all time personal records in every exercise test. And so this is all the tests and all the athletes. Now what I'm about to give you is the average across the group. So this is not the best athletes, This

is the average across the group. So in the seven weeks when they were just training with nothing for what they believed nothing, which it was before the steroids in inverted commas, the lifters added on average two point six kilos to their squat, So over seven weeks, their squat went up two point six kilos in seven weeks, which

is really pretty minimal on average. And then after they took their four weeks, which is not much more than half the time, After they did their four weeks of taking steroids, nudge nudge, wink wink, they added on average eighteen point nine kilos. Right now, Remember, in seven weeks, they added two point six kilos to their best lift. Now, in four weeks, which is about half the time, they added forty one point eight pounds or eighteen point nine

kilos of weight to their best squad. Now that's a seven times increase in gain in half the time, right, just over half the time. What was the difference, Same guys doing the same lifts, under the same conditions. Everything was the same. The only variables is that they thought they were on drugs that would make them stronger now, and they got way stronger. The same happened with the

second exercise. During the first seven weeks, the lifters increased their bench press by four point five kilos, so that's drug free four point five kilos in seven weeks. And after the next four weeks believing they were on steroids, the athletes added on average thirteen point three so a three time improvement in half the time with no drugs thinking they were taking drugs. Now, this one's fucking amazing.

On military press, which is it's a shoulder press every one where you've got the bar just sitting at the top of your chest where I'm showing Tiff like she needs me to fucking show her, but anyway, and so you push the bar straight up vertically from the top of your chest. That's called a military press, or it's a form of a shoulder press. Right. So on military press they increased by an average of zero point seven of a kilo. It's a hard lift, by the way.

So remembering that had already been doing all of these lifts, now, in the seven week initial phase of the trial, where they knew they weren't taking drugs, the average improvement was a mere point seven of a kilo. Now, then during the four weeks, again about half the time where they believed they were on drugs, the average improvement was seven point six kilos, which is a one thousand percent improvement on the preceding seven weeks. So they ten exed it.

It went from point seven to seven point six, which is a ten x improvement in four weeks over seven So so what does it tell us? Well, and there's no opinion in this, there's no there's just data. So the evidence was clear every athlete, every athlete got fundamentally

much stronger because they believed they were taking steroids. So whatever had to happen psychologically, physiologically, and so there's a bunch of theories around this, but I think that the implications for us are and we could talk about, you know, the psychological physiological link and what might be happening. But I think the implication and the one of the many takeaways is, oh, when I believe that i can do this amazing shit, right because I've got this magic drug

in my body that I know. Oh, I know about steroids. They make you stronger, and I'm on them, so I'm going to get stronger. So there's this correlation between absolute expectation and belief and output and outcome. Like there's no hesitation, there's no self doubt because all of the six participants new in inverted commas, they had this they have this hormonal advantage. Well, actually that just been lied to how fucking great is that?

Speaker 3

Do you reckon any of that comes into How beginners, when you first start training, you get such great adaptation to weight training, and then once you're you're a seasoned like strength trainer, you don't get quite the games. Do you reckon? There's anything that comes into just because all of a sudden, it's like I never used to do this stuff.

Speaker 2

Oh now I do this stuff.

Speaker 3

I'm going to get strong, and then it becomes something you just do every day and it's just the normal in your mind.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Look, I think also, I mean, we do know purely just from the physiology point of view, you're going to make. You know, if you do everything properly, you're going to make your greatest games in the first six

months because you're starting at zero. But I do think that, you know, like there are times when for example, last week, Yeah, so I typically do when I do chins, I do typically sets of you've seen me, I do sets of eight to ten, right, And last week I was in the gym and I looked up at the clock and I had to I think I had to actually race back to do a podcast with you. I was like three minutes late leaving the gym, and I'd realized I hadn't done any chins, and I went, right, I'm just

going to do one max set. Now, Normally eight to ten is hard, but I knew that I could only do one set because I didn't have time. And I did seventeen, right, So I did about double what I normally do. But I thought, well, I've only got one minute, I've only got one set, so I'll fucking blow him my back apart. I'll do everything I can. And so the sixty one year old body with fucked everything did

seventeen proper chins, right. And it's not like all of a sudden I've got more strength, or I've got better genetics or but it's just funny when you go, I'm gonna Now, if you had to come up to me at number seventeen and said here's a thousand bucks, do three more, I could not have done it. I couldn't have done it.

Speaker 2

Do you have a number in your head?

Speaker 1

No? No, I just went, I'm just well, I was. I think I was thinking fifteen, but I thought I'm probably not going to get there. Yeah, and I got to thirteen with relative ease. You know. Anyway, my point is like a completely different Like I didn't go in thinking eight to ten. I just went, ah, fuck, I need to If I can only do one set, it better be an amazing set or I'm going to get

no benefit, you know. And I just think I love this story because you know, it's not about drugs, and it's not about how much they lifted or didn't lift. It's about, Oh, isn't it amazing? And we've had this with Jeffrey Riddeger and numerous other people talking about place Ebos. It's just incredible when you go, ah, what could I actually do if I get my mind out of the way, or perhaps even better, I get my mind totally on board where my self belief or my expectation is in

a way different place. Now.

Speaker 3

Yeah, it reminds me of I've been revisiting one of Brene Brown Brown's books and she was talking about this part where she was researching and asking everybody and having this real grapple with herself like do you really think people are doing their best? And like she talks about being in with her therapist and she's like, do you really think everyone's doing their best?

Speaker 2

Like trying their best? And she was grappy.

Speaker 3

She was like, I don't like she couldn't handle everyone's going like yeah, yeah, And then she asked her husband and he thought about it for ages, and then he goes, I don't know, but I know that when I believe, when I think that people are doing their best, my life's better.

Speaker 2

And I loved that.

Speaker 3

It's like the power of what you choose to believe if you analyze it, like, if I choose to believe that everyone is doing their best, then I can be more empathetic, then my life can be better. It doesn't matter, Like the only thing that matters is the difference it makes to your life.

Speaker 1

Oh, there's a couple of things in that. I thought you were going to go somewhere different with that, because like what came up for me was when I think of am I doing my best? I'm like, is this absolutely the best I could humanly do? Well, no, I'm not doing my best? Then, do you know what I mean? Yeah? But I also understand it turned around and I think, also, you know, what is the best for you today Friday might not be the same what is the best for

you on Monday? Because I'm Monday. Your back's a bit better, You've had a great sleep, you've been laughing your off. You fucking you're happy as a pig in shits. Your energy is through the roof. So your Monday best could be quite different to your Friday best. I don't think our best, whatever we're talking about, is a constant. I think it's a variable based on a bunch of other variables.

Speaker 3

You know, Yeah, everything that's going on for people, and you know, like where they're at. But and just the idea of judgment, like a what sort of person am I when I have judgment on others? What's really going on inside my mind? And how does that affect me?

Speaker 1

Yeah? And also I mean, now getting philosophical, like what does it matter, like Craig, if you do seven eight chins or three sets of eight in the grand scheme of things, does it fucking matter? Oh? Probably not? Probably not. Like being functional and being somewhat strong and being able to do you know, having a body at sixty odd that works? Okay, that's the main thing, isn't it.

Speaker 3

Yeah?

Speaker 1

I guess so, you know, so there's it's almost like that. Well, so you know your job, yeah yeah, yeah, for the most part, enjoy it, yep, And you make pretty good dough yep, so it's all okay, right, It's like, so you don't need three times the income or no, no, and nothing wrong with making three times, but you go does it? Like, is the angst is the effort? Is the And sometimes the answer is yes, it's all worth it.

But There's been a bunch of things that I've done over the years where I've fucking nearly killed myself to do the thing. And then I did the thing, and then I went, why do I do that?

Speaker 2

I was on a you.

Speaker 3

Know, on a ride the other day, a pushbuck ride, and I was just letting my mind wonder and thinking about things, and I was kind of analyzing my mindset and my current like what am I doing, what are my goals? Where am I at? How is my life? How do I think? And I was like, do I I wonder how much of my drive and ambition shifts to hold on to some sort of belief that exists around whether or not I'm allowed.

Speaker 2

To be happy?

Speaker 3

Because I was out for a ride and I'd had a huge week of focusing differently and doing lots of work, and you know, I was like, this is good, right now, I have this moment of time I can just go outside and go for a ride by myself and be in the sun, and how beautiful. And there was this underlying oh, out in the sun, just going for a ride. I hope no one rings you and asks you what you're doing. There was almost a thought of it, like someone rings you and ask you what you're doing? Like

who are you to? I was like this, what is that like? And how much of that drives my business and everything that I do? Like it's quite comfort It was pretty confronting.

Speaker 1

Yeah, what's the origin story for that? Because that is that's almost sl oh Well, if you're not being productive and effective and efficient, then you should feel bad, you should feel guilty, you should feel convicted, Like what's that about?

Speaker 3

Yeah, and I think that can fall into self sabotage at times or that or just I don't know, Like we make decisions to prove an unconscious point, and what if the unconscious point I'm trying to prove is you'll never be enough and you don't really deserve to be happy, So keep striving for shit that lives just outside of that happiness because you're not allowed to be you're not allowed to live inside the happiness realm.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 2

By the way, to would agree, but well.

Speaker 1

You know, it's somebody. Somebody said, I think this is

a funny thing. Right. That doesn't happen a lot, but it happens somewhat regularly where because I do a lot of talking with people, as you do, and you know, I regularly, at least four or five days a week, I talk to someone who's really not in a great place, right, And some times those conversations are twenty minutes and sometimes they're two hours, right, And I love that, and that's a privilege, and that's part of part of what I think I meant to be doing, as fluffy as that sounds.

But every now and then someone comes up to me and goes, are you okay though, which is nice, right, and I go, yeah, I am. And then they're like, yeah, cool, I know you say that, but are you right? And you know, when you think you're okay, but then you're like, well, fuck, maybe I'm not, like can hell, They're looking at me like I'm actually not, but I don't know it, you know, And then I go, fuck, am I all right? And I think the fact like that whole happiness is such

a weird construct it's such a weird. I know it seems like not weird, but I reckon it's weird because well, what like if we associate happiness with an emotion or a feeling or a state or a moment in time one, what does that feel like experientially for Tiff? What does it feel like for our listener? What does it feel like for me?

Speaker 4

And is it is it like is it like that? Is it like joy? Is it like just calmness? Is it contentment?

Speaker 1

And for me, the feeling that is the most enjoyable probably not the right word, but the feeling that I enjoy the most is almost like a mix between calm, contentment and relief, you know, where there's just do you ever get home from a big run and you just sit down and it's like you just fucked, but you feel it's like a great fucked. It's like all the anxieties out of your body, all the nerves all that, and you're just like it's like a kind of a bliss.

Yeah right, I love that that bliss where I'm not happy, Like I'm definitely not unhappy, but it's not like I'm like, oh, yeah, fucking the hell, come on? Yeah, Like that's not going on at all. It's just this deep sense of gratitude. And I know this sounds fucking cheesy, but contentment bliss come like for me, that's my version of my happy place, Like that whole kind of euphoric joy punching the air. I don't get that that much. Yeah.

Speaker 3

Yeah, Like I feel like happiness is would be so different for different people, because for some people, the feeling that we describe might be something that's interpreted by way of just hitting pause on the anxiety, the worry or the state of tension. It's like, oh, when that disappears, it's like toxic relationships. Oh when something disappears and then I feel good for them and I feel familiar. So oh, this is happiness just because that feeling of anxiety disappeared.

Speaker 1

Yes, yes, I was thinking yesterday about I'm always writing articles which eventually get turned into a chat with you, right, or or or a solo episode or a or part of a workshop. But I was thinking about this idea of for one of the better term shiny things, right, all the shiny like I reckon.

Speaker 2

My blood love shiny things.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I know, Yeah, you're the fucking shiny thing. Queen, what's that over there?

Speaker 2

What's that?

Speaker 3

What's that?

Speaker 1

What's that? Right? And I was thinking about how much it's almost like and this is not about you, this is about all of us at some stage, me included. But it's also it's almost like the seduction of the superficial. It's like I need that. Oh I want that fuck And then I get it and I'm like, yeah, but that didn't. Yeah that's not enough. I need more. I need another one. I need fucking a bigger one, you know, And I'm you know, I've done that mile life with shit.

And then you go, all right, all right, well, what is what is that about? You know where you're you're kind of trying to do a deep dive or I've been doing a bit of a somewhat deep dive under trying to get underneath my my motivators, you know, like you know, you talk philosophically about I want to help people, I want to do this, I want to do that.

Do you like, do you though, or do you just say that because you sound good when you say that, because you know, there are times when the evidence in my life is not always in alignment with what's coming out of my gob trying to sound good on a podcast. Just go look in the garage at the four motorbikes, right that might you might go, I don't know, mister deep and spiritual, what the fuck are all these about?

Speaker 4

You know?

Speaker 1

And I'm like, yeah, what And it's not I mean, I don't think. Yeah, I don't know. It's an interesting thing to try to have. And again, this is not self loathing, but to try to have a level of real self awareness that is almost unnew, like an unnew level where you're like, oh, we're not beating yourself up,

but you're also not giving yourself a break. Because I think there are times when we need to give ourselves a break of course, bit of self care, bit of self love, of course, but I also think there are times when you've got to go, nah, Craig, you're a bit full of shit.

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah, that was another. I guess it feels relatable to when I was writing and thinking deeply and I was thinking about like me and my independence and that I've just done a session on boundaries with my coaching group, so I was thinking about that and the work I've had to do in life, because boundaries was one of the biggest lessons I had to learned, and I was just thinking, like, one part of me is really aware of how self ish self like, I look after like

in an independent way selfish, I look after me. I'm very protective, I've been I have to be really aware of that. But also I was reflecting on at the very same time that lack of boundaries and the putting myself last, like putting everyone else first and prioritizing what everyone else's needs. And I was like, well, because that's the opposite of selfish. So are you selfish or aren't you selfish? Like how do these two aspects of you even live in the one moment? And how can you not be.

Speaker 2

Aware of that? And you have to figure out how they even work together.

Speaker 3

Yes, they sit for they feel like the polar opposite. I'm like, oh, I believe it's they come out in different moments. Oh, I'm really selfish because that fits the narrative in a moment, But then in another moment, Oh, I've got no boundaries, you know, I just I'm all about everybody else.

Speaker 2

It's like, well, yeah, what's the where's the truth live?

Speaker 1

I want to I want to read you something which kind of insects with what we're talking about a bit I'm writing. I haven't named Tom Melissa this because she'll sack me. But I've started writing a book, but I don't have time to write a book. What it's, don't you?

Speaker 2

Bloody schoolwork mate?

Speaker 1

My schoolwork? Yeah? My pants. Well, it's like sometimes I have an idea, well all the fucking time.

Speaker 2

Sometimes sometimes you have an idea.

Speaker 1

I know it's too fertile. I get out of the shower. I have a big white wood in my bedroom which is eight feet long. I often walk dripping two because I don't want all the shit that's in my head. So I walk wet on the carpet and then I just write this shit so I can get it. I need a whiteboard in the bathroom, That's what I need.

Speaker 3

You need to not tell visual stories like that for us visual humans that are all listening to the show right now, with pictures we never needed.

Speaker 1

As are you saying that me walking from the shower, dripping wet as its.

Speaker 2

Move on with the story.

Speaker 1

Okay, well we can't all be fucking awesome. Can we.

Speaker 2

Tell me you've got a teel around you?

Speaker 1

Yeah? Of course, yep, now of course, Oh there's nothing inappropriate hanging out because that's what I that's what anyway, this is much more savory than what we're talking about. So I was putting down some shit I was writing about, you know, pursuant to the shiny things idea, one of the core teaching. So this is in a Buddhism. One of the core teachings of Foreknoble Truths says that suffering is caused by craving, including craving for success, for praise,

for recognition, that is, chasing the stuff. Chasing that stuff endlessly is part of what keeps us stuck in dissatisfaction. Buddhism doesn't reject success, but redefines it from having to being fucking love that it invites people to trade the appearance of success for the experience of peace. In the way success is often defined by accumulation of titleswell status, In Buddhism, success is measured by reduction, not accumulation, reduction

of ego, of craving of suffering. Buddhism teaches it the more we cling to external validation, the further we drift from peace. True success in this tradition has nothing to do with being seen or celebrated, and everything to do with being free, free from comparison, and less driving and the need to prove ourselves. How good's that?

Speaker 3

I love that you remind me of a quote I fell in love with recently. There was something along the lines of the rich man is not he who has the most, but he who needs the less the least.

Speaker 1

Yeah, love it, love it.

Speaker 3

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Well on that very fucking spiritual come by, you know moment. Let's not think about me walking out of the shower to write shit on the whiteboard. Let's erase that. Let's get back on this wisdom that we just shared. And for you visual learners, I'm sorry. Ah wow. We'll see you next time.

Speaker 2

Thanks tip, Thanks Hart

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