Tivy and cook, David Bryan K Patrick Gillespian. It's the bloody you project. It's jumbo up the front. Where else would I be? We'll start with the lady in the room, height.
Tiv front and center. You never he stumbled over all of those middle names this time.
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. He's told me I forget. Do you remember now? Do you remember?
I don't remember them my real one. No, I have a real middle name. I remember. It makes that's right. See look at Tiffany wow because it makes an embarrassing acronym.
Yeah, Dad, I thought of that attic as it came out of your mouth. Tiff Have you been cookie? How's the piano career, the musical career has it taken off?
It's it's volatile because I go from in a moment yeah, because you know, I'm like a little bit impatient and I'm like, all right, boring, next, got this mastered, And in the moment I'm onto something new, I get frustrated. I'm like, why is this doing even had? How could they make it make any less sense? Music and reading music?
Really, I don't know that that's meant to be one of the emotional and or psychological outcomes of playing music. I feel like it's meant to do the opposite.
For one, that's where I'm at my best.
I don't know that you're meant to be competitive when you're learning the piano tip.
I know, but that's how I do everything.
How's that going?
Well?
Really it is it? Could I run you through a.
Have I dropped in on a psychology session here or something? Ever?
Sorry? Sorry coming from Australia's leading anti psychology advocate. How are you, sir? How's your day going?
What?
It's Wednesday? Arbo? What's going on up there? Did you go to work today? Did you put on a suit?
I did go to work. I didn't put on a suit because I didn't leave my office to go to work. But yeah, I did some work.
Like an absolute grown up. Well, you wrote a good article that I don't know when you write it, but it went.
Up today on finish it this morning. Yes, it's been in progress all week.
So it's on substack everyone. Doctor Gillespie, as many of our listeners call you, Doctor Gillespie, who, just to be clear, isn't a doctor but could be could be. Doctor Gillespie has written an article silencing the food noise, and it's basically the once upon a time of ozeenpic. So it's now just so it's a g LP one what do they call it?
And yes, yeah, yeah, agonist.
So it's it's intended purpose Originally, I think I have not read the article. I should have. I apologize, but it's lower blood sugar. Was that its original intent? In fact, why don't you just tell us the story? You should read these articles. You know, it's a place I normally do. I had a corporate gig, Thesavo, and so I apologize.
Okay. So it sort of started in the seventies when they were first started fiddling around with insulin and its counterpart of glucagon. Sorry, not glucagen. It's the They were doing it because a brand new disease was starting to occur, called type two diabetes. And it might seem odd to people today to think of type two diabetes as being
a brand new disease, but it is. It really really wasn't a problem before the early nineteen eighties when we started taking health advice from the government and it so scientists were tooling around with some of the hormones which they knew were in this most particularly insulin. And you know, insulin's main job is to move glucose out of the
bloodstream and into cells that need it. So you know, if muscles need energy, then they put receptors up to their cell surface, and insulin comes along and unlocks the receptor to allow the glucose to enter. Glucose just can't really nearly enter any cell in the body. It needs
insulin to do it. And so insulin is produced in response to us eating stuff, and that raises our blood sugar level, which then causes insulin to be released, and then the insulin helps remove the glucose from the bloodstream. But you don't want to overshoot, because you know, you don't want all that insulin in your bloodstream running around releasing all the glucose out, and then you've got no
glucose left in your bloodstream and you're dropped dead. So we have a counterpart to that called gluckagon, which is sort of anti insulin, if you like. And so when blood sugar levels start to go too low, either because you haven't eaten for a while or you've been exercising like a nutbag, then your body needs to bring those levels back up again, otherwise your brain will stop working
and other important organs will probably too. And the glugagon travels to the liver and instructs the liver to release some sugar back into the bloodstream, so bring the sugar back up again. So that's what they knew in the nineteen seventies, and they, looking at that, thought, oh, maybe if we get to fiddle around with these hormones a bit, maybe we'll be able to do something about type two diabetes.
Because type two diabetes is where you essentially have, you know, the blood shower is too high, and the body becomes effectively insulin resistant, that is, it's no longer listening to the signal from insulin telling cells to absorb the glucose out of the bloodstream, and having persistently glucose can start to do real damage. So they thought, oh, well, what if we fiddle around with the glucagon bit of that and see if we can, you know, fix that problem
with a bit of messing about. They weren't terribly successful doing that, but they did happen across some other substances that were seemed to be part of the equation. They weren't quite sure what they did, but they did notice that one of them, in particular, one called GLP one
or glucagon like peptide one, did an interesting thing. It seemed to be released around the same time as glucagon, and what it did was not only suppress appetite seemingly by sending a signal directly to the brain to tell us to stop eating, but it also made us feel physically full even if we weren't, so it essentially would shut us down. It was the biochemical equivalent of I don't know, wiring your mouth shut.
You.
If you were hit with this stuff, you couldn't eat anymore. And so they thought, oh, this is an interesting thing. Maybe if we gave people with type two diabetes some of this g l P one, then they's they'd eat less, but their blood sugar would be lower, and maybe that would help their diabetes. So they started doing some trials. It actually did, by the way. So the trouble with it was that it doesn't last very long in the body.
So they gave it to people. It normalized their blood sugar levels, it made them feel full, but it was gone in minutes. It had a half life of minutes in the bloodstream. Mostly because we have a thing naturally occurring called DPP four, which I'm sure you're all terribly interested in, but it's kind of a molecular pac Man that goes around eliminating GLP one. Because this is all supposed to be being done in real time adjustments minute
to minute in the human body. You know, you've got a bit too much blood sugar adjusted one way, got a little too little adjusted the other way, and so the body is really good at balancing those things, and so pumping us full of one of those hormones, which is what they were doing, didn't really work very well because the body said, ah, there's too much of that hormone. I'll just go and clean that up, and it did
so within minutes. So the only real way it could be effective was to put someone on a drip where they were being continuously infused with it, and yes, then it did work. But that's not a particularly practicable, practical, or saleable way of managing type two diabetes. So this is where the drug companies got involved, In particular, Novo
Nordisk always get their name wrong. Is Nova Nordisk I think it was who said let's have a look at this let's see if we can crack this nut about not having to have people tended to have dripped the whole time just to have this effect. And what they did is they managed to engineer a fatty coating to the GLT one that stopped it being destroyed by the DPP four and it would last thirteen hours rather than
a minute. So suddenly you've got something that you could inject that will last a day effectively because the rest of the time you're asleep, And now you've got a marketable drug. So that's what they first came out with in the nineties I think it was, And from there the development took it further and said, hey, all right,
we're making lots of money from that. What if we could do something that didn't have to be injected daily because even that's still a big ask, just say to someone with type to diabetes where you do have to inject this thing every day. And there was the other little problem, which is that, rather like GLP one, it also tended to make people extremely nauseous to the point of vomiting. Remembering that one of the effects of this thing, GLP one, is to make us feel full, and if
you are on a continuous infusion of this. It is like you have just eaten the biggest meal of your life the entire time, and a lot of people's reaction to that is to vomit. So they feel so nauseous and so sick from being so full feeling that they vomit. So that's a bit of a nasty side effect as well, which limited its use. But it was a little bit less with the one that they made that had the
fatty covering and that lasted thirteen hours. Wind forward a bit and they eventually cracked the problem, came up with a better version of it, one that would last an entire week before it was destroyed by the body. And that's what we call a zenpic now. And so suddenly they'd created all of this time while all this research was going on. Of course, diabetes begetting worse and worse and worse and worse at an exponential race. So we're
gone from the nineteen eighties where it barely existed. They're doing all this research. By the time we get into the early noughties, then there's a market. Then there's a real market, and suddenly they've got a license to print money. Then they paid close attention to something they had noticed in some of the earlier studies, which is, not only did it seem to hold people's type two diabetes in check, they seem to lose a lot of weight while they
were consuming it. And I guess that's not unexpected, you know, if you're having something that makes you feel full to the point where you want to throw up, you've got to eat less. So and then suddenly they found out that if you increase the dose a bit, you can really up that weight loss into the sort of ten
to fifteen percent range for most people. And that's products like Wegovi, for example, which is a higher dose version, and it has approval to be sold as a weight loss medication, at least in the United States.
So it.
That's how we've gotten to today, which is first of all, just trying to find a way to do something about the hormones and fix type two diabetes, which was then not much of a problem but was clearly a growing problem. Now we've got an epidemic of type two diabetes and it's getting worse by the minute. And we've also got an epidemic of obesity, and it's getting worse by the minute. And this drug appears to address both of them, at
least as long as you keep taking the drug. So it is unfortunately the case that as soon as you stop injecting this stuff, your body goes back to the way it was.
But I just ask, and so is the weight loss mechanism is essentially just because people are consuming less calories, so still energy in and out is the I.
Mean it's to do. It does have an effect on the brain's appetite control system a little as well, but it's a transient effect. The primary effect of it is that you feel so full that you couldn't eat anything anyway.
So I guess it messes also with grellin and you know, the hunger hormone, and I think it's leptin, the society hormone or whatever like, so people.
Part of that matrix of the hormones of appetite.
Yes, and then so people, I mean, what unless I'm missing something and I don't know. So this is a legit question because I've done this is my first real lesson in ozen pic Like, I had a vague idea and I knew that it was originally designed for blood sugar regulation or flurering. You know, blood sugar blah blah blah. But and for type two diabetics, which is, as you said,
is basically a new new condition. But like, ultimately the weight loss is still coming because or it's still a byproduct of people just consuming less food.
Correct, Yeah, it's the it's the biochemical equivalent of stomach stapeling.
So you know that.
You could be just as a active by wiring people's mouth shut. It's the same essential principle, except you're doing it with drugs rather than physical impairments. So it's that's the principle of it, and it's effective for as long as you keep taking it or can tolerate it, remembering that the nausea thing is still there and some people can't tolerate that. Think.
I think the lie though, is, oh, this drug makes you lose weight. Well, well, this drug makes you less hungry, and what makes you lose weight is the fact that you're fucking eating less, Like you're consuming less calories because you feel somewhere between full and sick and nauseous. And
I'm reading the side effects here constipated, fatigued. Fuck. You know, it's like like the real reason that you're losing weight is just because you're reducing your calories, which and I know people will jump up and down, but you can kind of do that without these drugs.
Yeah, And in fact, you can do it with weight loss shakes for example, for as long as you can tolerate that. I'm not believing, I'm not advocating for them. I'm just saying that they're the same essential principle, which is you just drastically reduce what you're consuming and then you will lose weight. There is another way to lose weight, which is stop consuming things which mess up your appetite control system, like fructose, and this doesn't help that at all.
You can still you know, if the three grams of stuff that you can tolerate is fructose, then you're not changing anything about what you're consuming. You'll still lose weight
because how much you can consume will be controlled. But the damage that's being done in there by the sugar a you know, which is you know, fatty, liver disease, kidney disease, hypertension, disease, all of those good things that sugar brings to us are all still there, but it's being masked by this drug which is hiding the obvious symptom, which is that you look fat or that you've got type two diabetes. So masking those symptoms is not very helpful.
You're still doing the damage, you're just hiding it. And that's I guess the point of the article I wrote, which is to say, let's understand that this is like having a boat with a leak in it and then putting a pump in, and so the boat still keeps working for as long as the pump keeps working because it doesn't fill with water and sink to the bottom. But as soon as you turn the pump off, you've
still got a boat with a leak in it. And that's what's going on here, only it's worse in that the pump is also hiding some other things that are occurring, which woul whether you were on this stuff or not, if you continue to consume the seed, oils or sugar
that are causing the underlying metabolic conditions. Remembering that we're talking about a condition type two diabetes and obesity, both conditions that barely existed prior to nineteen eighty barely existed, and I know that for all of us living now, it seems like they've been there forever, but they really haven't.
And the fact that that's the case stops us looking for the solution to the problem, stops us looking at the cause, stops us trying to repair the hole in the boat that's causing the leak, and diverts us to investing in better and better pumps to disguise it. Yeah.
Yeah, And I think also it's worth noting that when people lose weight quickly, like a lot of weight the short time, generally what they're losing in order is water, muscle, and fat in that order. And then when they regain it, which is not inevitable but common, they regain water, fat, muscle. And so somebody who's gone through rapid weight loss, whatever the means of the rapid weight loss was, that you can find, for example, you know, somebody might start it.
Let's just say one hundred kilos. They lose twenty kilos in eight weeks, which is two and a half kilos
a week, which is too quick. Generally, they lose a lot of weight, and a fair percentage of that is lane tissue, is muscle, and then they regain the weight because the wedding's over, or the school reunion or the whatever is over and then they end up back at one hundred kilos, but now they've got a higher body fat percentage at the same weight because in this yo yoing cycle they've lost lane tissue and that as well.
It's because you're not, once again not addressing the fundamental reason why you needed to lose weight in the first place, which is that something is malfunctioning in your environment that's causing you to eat more than you should. Something is interfering with your appetite control system. And believe it or not, we have a perfectly functional appetite control system. It's all controlled by hormones. It's all perfectly well regulated. As long as we don't mess with it, we will stop eating
when we've had enough. We will know exactly how many calories is enough because our appetite control system will shut us down. The only time that doesn't happen is when
we do something that breaks our appetite control system. So that's the fundamental thing, and it's a problem also even with most dietary prescriptions these days, whether it's will go over you or anything else, which is there's this fundamental thing assumption that what you've got to do to lose weight is get in there and manually start counting calories, which is idiotic because you don't do it when you're
wanting to put on height. So when you're growing, you know, you didn't start out, you know, the fabular six foot five you are. You started out significantly smaller than that, and your body automatically allocated calories and resources to get you to the height that your hormones programmed you to be. But somehow when we and nobody would argue with me there if I said that to them. But for somehow, when we're talking about growing vertical, of growing horizontally rather
than vertically, suddenly it willpower is required. It's like, in order to be six foot five, you had to will yourself to that height, and that's nonsense. You are that height because hormones made you that height, and the same goes for diet. There's this building in assumption that fault is involved, that in some way you are a weak person.
If you're overweight that you are, you know you have some sort of moral fault, And bizarrely, it's a moral fault that's really only occurred in the population in the
last fifty years. Prior to that, no one even gave it a moment's thought because prior to that, there was no significant corruption of our appetite control system, and our bodies did what they did, which is, they allowed us to eat when we needed to eat, and they stopped us eating when we'd had enough, and no one knew how to counter calorie and never needed to.
Yeah. I saw a photo the other day of I don't know if you've seen that you too, I don't know. I don't know whether it was doctored, but it looked legit. It was like a photo of a bunch of ossies on the beach in nineteen sixty three. It was like hundreds of people.
Yeah, I've seen the phone.
Ever, Yeah, everyone in shape.
Yep, you know, not necessarily in shape.
I mean, well, what I mean is there was they won't overweight, no apparent obedity, is what I'm saying.
And you don't need photos to see that. There's very good statistics on it. So the reality is that our current environment and our current population, this is the first time in human history that we've had any more than about ten percent of the human population overweight or obese. But we're up around seventy percent, and that's not ringing alarm bells, people looking at that and saying, oh, well, there must be some sort of moral turpitude, there must
be some sort of fault, a lack of willpower. These are obviously weak willed individuals, And that's nonsense. It were this anything other than something that you could look down upon people about, were this growing an extra arm or whatever, we'd be trying to solve it. We'd actually be looking at the real causes and we'd be sorting it out.
But for some reason, when it's something that you can sneer at people about and have a judgment about, suddenly, oh, well that's just because they're weak willed.
Yeah. Interesting, Wow, it's that kind of you know, the inability to feel satisfied. You know that some people like where some people eat and it's like it's never enough, not because as you said, they're weak willed or they've got some psychological issue, but because that satiety they don't experience it.
No, that doesn't because they have a malfunctioning appetite control system. And you can actually make this happen, like in animal experience, you can make it happen. You can disable the part of the brain that does control the appetite and they can't stop. Anyone who's ever owned a laborador knows this. You know, they're unable to be satisfied until they finished eating your socks and all the pebbles in the garden
and half your car. You know. It's it's an actual malfunction in the human brain, and you can make it happen, and we are making it happen. We know we can make it happen just by giving humans fructose, which is half of sugar, and there's forty grams of it in everyone's you know, sorry, not forty grams, forty tea spoons
of it in everyone's diet today. So giving some giving everybody forty tea spoons a day of something that we know in affects appetite control, you should not be surprised, so that we would then have an appetite control problem.
Forty tea spoons of sugar a day, So a tea spoon is five grams. That's two hundred grams of sugar a day.
Four grams, yeah, so four sixty yeah, and people will have.
One hundred and sixty grams in a month.
Yeah. But people will say that sort of thing to me when I give that statistic and if I point a couple of things out, So for example, if you sat down to breakfast of a Heart foundation to prove breakfast cereal, say something like a Sultana brand and a glass of orange juice, you're at twenty tea spoons right there. That's before you go near a Mars bar or a coke or pushback on the breakfast table. Okay, So it is very easy to get there on healthy food.
Okay. So and again everyone, we're not recommending, we're not. So can you give us a snapshot of somebody for somebody who's listening to this, who is resonating with what you're saying. And I haven't actually asked you your opinion of ozeenpic, but is there Do you have a pros and cons list of a zempic of people using it or are you just like no.
No, it's good for what it was invented for, which is it is. When you can compare it to most of the drugs which are available for controlling type two diabetes, it is significantly more effective than most of them. But you have to go in with your eyes open and understand it's not fixing anything. It's controlling and the methodology for actually fixing type two diabetes is to change what you're eating. Yeah, So as a holding pattern, it's clearly
good science. It clearly does what's advertised in the box. I'm less keen on it as a weight loss solution because it's not a solution to anything. It's a masking. It's like, and I don't know if we've talked about this another time, and if not, we can do it another time. It's exactly the same as putting teenage girls on the pill and then missing and then missing some fairly significant medical problems because you've masked so many of the symptoms.
Yeah, if do you know anyone? Obviously, without mentioning names who you uses it.
I have been told of people that have tried it for a short period of time. I'm not a fan.
I've stopped using it.
Yeah, she needs I just had to get myself down into a respectable weight category. David.
Yeah, I see. Craig hasn't stopped using and he's still going yeah. Yeah, you're waste away, Craig. If you if you can't using that.
Stuff, you know, well, I think I think Tiff is the labrador in this cruise so definitely if anyone, well, you definitely don't need it because you do eat a lot, but you don't you don't gain weight, do you per se?
No?
Not not so much like I. I just have a Yeah, I'm a I'm a feeder. I eat a lot, I ate a lot of.
That could be a combination of two things. Firstly, you know lumber lumberjacks have fifty eight hundred day calorie diets right because they do may do a lot of exercise, and Tiffany may well be in that category. And she just may be genetically blessed too, where she's just really inefficient with her calories and has to eat a lot or can't maintain a reasonable body weight.
Isn't it funny to think that somebody that gains weight easily, they could survive in the bush longer than you, tiff like you and me.
Because I'd be so hungry that I would go away with them just through.
You'd eat them. If I got up to twenty percent body fat and you got up to twenty percent body fat and we went and got lost bloody hiking, you'd die before me.
I'd have to drive to go and find food.
And imagine all the energy you'd expend doing it, that's true.
Well after she'd eaten you, she'd then move on to finding other stuff to eat. So you know that show alone. I think the third series of it, I think starts this week on SBS. It's I think, yeah, the one, the one who wins is the one who put on the more weight before they started. Usually you know they're the one of going in carrying forty extra kilos because it seems to be mostly a starvation contest.
Have you seen that show? Tip? No, No, it's brutal. It's brutal. They absolutely yeh. Always good to chat, sir. Where can people find all of your stuff? If they want to go and have a little bit of a read of your fine work.
Go look for me on substack. The thing is called raisin Hell, but you could also just find me on Facebook and there's links to it there.
Perfect. We'll say goodbye, fair but once again, thank you sir.
See you next time, solute pleasure, See you next time.