Doctor Jody, Welcome back to the show.
Thanks for having me back.
Craig, how are you.
I'm good. I'm actually really good.
Yeah, it's I mean, I'm not like it's I'm good today. A couple of days ago had a bit of an incident that really threw me for a six But generally speaking, most days I'm coping pretty well, feeling pretty fit and healthy, and feeling like I'm getting on top of most things. So I've just become more accepting of the fact that I have so many things that I have to leave unfinished when I move on to something else and just
try to get done what's most important. And that has helped with kind of my headspace because I used to just struggle if I couldn't tie off loose ends all the time.
Could you give us without divulging state secrets or anything you don't want to, but I like this. I don't think we've spoken about this, the idea of leaving leaving things that are in complete or like for right now, we can't put a bow on it, so we've got to move on. Can you give us an example, even if it's a hypothetical.
I can Oh, you.
Know me, Craig I'm always happy to talk about what's going on. Oh, how many examples do you want? There's a lot of loose ends. I'll give you an example from today. So I am working on just updating my speaker kit so that it is representative of where I'm at with new presentations and testimonials and all of that sort of thing. And I've had it graphically designed, and now I'm in the tweaking phase. I don't know if you're into a bit of tweaking when you get something done.
And I had a client call, so i was just like, oh, just get this done. I'll just get this done on just get this done. I'm looking at the clock, going there is no one I'm finishing this thing in the next six minutes. I'm like, right, put it aside, get prepared for your client call. Had a great chat with a client, finished that about twenty minutes ago, and then took a phone call from my mum, had a chat with my daughter who's home, and got ready for this.
And so when this, when we finish here today, I'll go back and do another ten minutes on that and then I'll be leaving again.
So that's just one example, but there are many.
Is there? Does it if you have to leave things somewhat incomplete temporarily or up in the air, is that a source of anxiety?
It really is, like I can actually feel my heart racing or just beating a little bit faster just talking about.
I really don't like it.
But I was complaining a bit about it about a month ago.
It was just really bothering me.
But when I spoke to a few friends who you know, lived similar kind of lives, just sort of got the impression that it was bothering me more than it was bothering other people I talked to. And there's no real solution for this. This is not something that you can change. When you work for yourself and you're a parent and you try to keep yourself fit and healthy and well, and parents' appointments who might need driving somewhere, and kids are getting braces, and all of the things that interrupt
kind of the flow. It's not like I'm sitting at a desk, you know, or in a workplace where I can solely focus. I have lots of other responsibilities, and so I've got to the point where it is what it is, and that acceptance has helped for the most part because.
I was.
Talking to Tiff yesterday actually on her potty, and I think of it like sort of taking different hats, you know, taking one half hat off and putting a different hat on. It's like, okay, what's going on now? The parent hat or the uber driving everyone everywhere hat, or the you know, the work hat, whatever it is, Frather, it'd be different. But I also love the life I live and it comes with a lot of highs and a lot of responsibilities and a lot of enjoyment, and so I wouldn't
change it. But yeah, the loose ends do make me anxious, definitely.
I've got a question for you which I think is broadly relevant. So we all get a bit anxious, we all overthink a bit, we all get a little bit distracted or distressed or a combination thereof and other things. But then a lot of us have to temporarily put that on hold and then step into an appointment, a zoom meeting, a job, a responsibility. It's like, if I've got an appointment with you at one thirty, which I do today, and at one twenty six, the ass is
falling out of my world. Bad luck, yes, bad luck.
Ups.
If I'm cracking the shits at one twenty four, or I'm having a bad time at one twenty two. I have to do my very best, which wasn't happening today, thankfully, but it does happen, and then you know, okay, so at one twenty six, sorry, at one thirty today, for example, I have to step into this space with you and do my very best to be present, to be interesting, to be relevant, to be mindful, and to hopefully create something with you that is good for people to listen to.
And I need to get out of my own bullshit for a moment, right, So my question is is there a protocol that you have or that you can share with us, because obviously we don't want to. You know, it's like you show up for work and you've had a bad morning with the kids or whatever. You don't want to bring that to work. But also also you're human and you feel what you feel, So good luck answering that.
Doc My gosh.
Okay, Well, the first part of the question was, and look, you can I just tell you one thing, like it is not just me, like it is all of us, Like what you just said, it is life. It's being a grown up and sometimes I literally say to myself, just grow up, just you know, like, because there's a little part of me that's having a little tantrum because I don't get to finish what it is I need to be doing in that moment. And then I stop and think, and this is this is my protocol that
I use. I think, right, what is the most important thing for me to be doing now? Not what am I going to be chipping away out? Because I feel anxious about something being unfinished, and I ask myself what's
most important? And the other thing Sometimes when I find myself spending time on something that like I'm presenting this afternoon, for example, I'm doing a virtual presentation this afternoon, and I'm all prepared for it, but on the day of the presentation, all the day before the presentation, I'm always going back to my notes, what deliverables I've promised on, exactly what I'm presenting, you know, just getting in the moment,
getting in the flow. And when I was working on the speaker it this morning, I'm thinking, right, when do I have to have this done by? So it's those two questions, what's the most important thing for me to do right now? And I'll be thinking, right, it's not what I'm actually doing. All right, When do I have
to have this thing I'm working on done by Okay? Conceivably, it's quite okay if I have it done by Monday, Like, that's okay, plenty of time between now Monday, right, So put it aside, and what's the next most important thing for me to do?
And there's that discomfort in disconnecting.
The minute I refocus on the next kind of task and put myself in the headspace of what that is and who I'm.
With, I actually feel a lot lighter.
So it's kind of a bit like when you don't wash the windows for three months and then you wash the windows and you realize, well, actually that wasn't so bad and it didn't take as long, and I've spent three months complaining and worrying about doing it. Yes, So yeah, did I answer the question? Yeah?
Yeah, it's good. And also this is I mean a little bit of a side Andrew Huberman. You know who he is, right, I do?
Yes?
So have you heard him banging on about the anterior mid singulate cortex. Have you heard him talking about that?
Well, I'm familiar with some of its function, but I haven't heard him talk about it lately.
Yes, So he talks about how there's part of our brain IMCC where when we do hard things, hard things that we should do but don't want to do, but we actually do the hard thing, we go oh fuck.
And I'm always doing this to myself where I give myself these little tests all the time, where I like, for example, yesterday went for a big walk and I'd walked about ten thousand step seven eight k's and on the way home, I went into the cafe to get me it was about two to get myself a coffee, and they've got these really comfy chairs and I was just about to plunk myself in a comfy chair and then this little voice goes, don't sit down, bitch, stay
standing right, And I'm like, I so wanted to sit down, but I just make myself be uncomfortable. For like, my back was sore, and I'm like, just be uncomfortable. You're going to be home in three minutes. Don't be a fucking baby. You know. I know this is by the way, everyone don't talk to yourself like I talked to me.
This is definitely not a recommendation, but it's funny because I mean, I think the bottom line is when you and I'm not talking about being reckless, but when you strategically lean into the uncomfortable things I'm talking about were some degree of strategy and wisdom, and you know, like you're not doing dumb shit or silly shit, but you're doing stuff that's uncomfortable. But there's a benefit to the discomfort.
And then over time, the thing that was hard, even though you're still doing the same thing, it's not hard anymore because you've built that muscle, so to speak. You know. So I don't know how I got there, but you know, I feel like that that ability to be able to go right now, this is what I need to do to be the best version of me. So what I need to do in the next hour or ten minutes or whatever it is.
Yeah. Have you read or heard of Brian Tracy's book Eat the Frog?
Yeah?
I have, Oh so good.
I have not read that book, but I know of him and I know of that book.
And yeah, so that the concept.
It's still the shit thing, first, is it?
Pretty much?
Yeah?
Yeah? And there's a quote in the book, and i'ld paraphrase it's it's something along the lines of the most successful people are the ones that can identify what's most important, get started quickly, do it well. That's basically the ultimate key to success. Now, you know, we've got to make good decisions about what's important. But it is. There's so much to be said for it because procrastination is not a time management problem.
Adam Grant was writing about this on Instagram today.
To quote him, he said, it's an emotion regulation problem, and we feel uncomfortable and it's.
Just in our nature.
I think probably a lot of people listening will be nodding thinking, you know, I think we do. We put things off that are uncomfortable, whether it's a conversation or a project, or you know, asking for a raise or doing anything that makes us feel you know, anything but kind of good.
I like it.
We'll put it off, but we have to ask ourselves, will you know I'll give you an example with our daughter. She she had a thorn in her foot, and we have hawthorn trees. I don't know, if you've on our property and they have some wicked thorns, creak like they're all and they can go right through, right through a thong into a you know, we shouldn't be walking around
in thongs. But anyway, she didn't like the idea that it had to come out and was putting it off, and I said, right, let's agree it has to come out.
Yes, okay, it can come out now.
Hang on. She had a thought in her foot and she didn't want it to come out.
She was anxious and frightened about what it would feel to have it pulled out and removed.
Yes, I would think it would feel great.
Oh no, right, I think it was just really painful. And yeah, and she was possibly anticipating more pain. I suppose, right, right, right, And I just said pretty calmly, look, I get it, I get you don't want this, but let's just agree it has to happen. And whether it happens in the next minute or in thirty minutes, it has to happen. Yes, yeah, let's just get on with it. But yeah, look, you
know it's good in theory. Depending there are a lot of things that influence our abilities about to make those decisions for ourselves.
Yeah, lots of things.
I think self regulation, I mean, self reflection, self awareness, self regulation. It's like the ongoing, ever present challenge, like I'm always obviously because of my research and stuff. But when I say always but consistently and regularly thinking about what is this like for the listener? What is this like for the person I'm in a conversation with or a negotiation with, or what's it like for Melissa to work with me? Or what's it like for Jo to be on the other side of this moment right now?
And that kind of self awareness focused train of thought I think is valuable. But then on top of that, when you have some kind of awareness or awakening or you know, to then be able to self regulate and self manage so that you can get the best out of you in whatever the moment requires to be good for you, but to be good for them. And this is a long winded way of telling you that maybe
well for me. My ultimate example of this was back in the day when I was a trainer on the floor for decades, and in the early years, I would literally do on a very quiet day jode, I would do ten hours of PT on a quiet day, so on a busy day when I you know, because early days it was me and a couple of others, but I would regularly do regularly twelve hours PT and on
the a few exceptional days more, which is silly. But the thing was, so you get up at I would get up at four point thirty, I would train myself. I would get to the gym. I would clean the gym, clean the mirrors, clean the toilets, vacuum the staff, wipe the benches, because I was it. I was the entire staff pretty much for a while anyway, right, And then I'd start training people at five point thirty or six.
And then by the time you get to five o'clock in the afternoon, I mean, your body is going, what the fuck are you doing? Sit down, and your brain is going sit down, lie down, do anything but do this. And also obviously your cognitive functions not at an all time high, your emotions have changed. And that was such a and I'm really glad for that time because then I didn't always do it well. But and I used to say this to myself, and I used to say it to my team. I'd say, now, how many sessions
can you do per day? And keep them all at a very good level, like, because if I'm training you at six am or six pm, you should get the same product. Yes, I can't say to you, sorry, missus, six pm I've been awake for fourteen hours and I'm really hungry and my back's a bit sore, and you're my twelfth client. So therefore you're going to get a four out of ten, Craig. But that's just because you're
training at six pm. But if you want to do at seven am, you'll get a nine out of Well, you can't do that because one, it's unprofessional too, it's bad for all kinds of reasons. And three people are paying the same dough irrespective of the time, and so that and by the way, of course I didn't always nail it, and of course I had better and worse sessions and days, but that me thinking then and then trying to get my team around. I would call it
performance threshold or shit threshold. So performance threshold, how many sessions? Like what's your number? And for some people, honestly, it was four or five a day, which is cool, and I go, so that's your limit. You're not doing seven or eight and it might build over time, but right now, you know, if you can do four great sessions with clients, fantastic, well done. Do four great ones and zero shit ones?
Yes, Well, I'm thinking about what you're saying, and I'm thinking that it's with you and the volume of training that you did. It's really unsustainable to be able to show up for every single one of those sessions and be nine out of ten Craig or even eight out of ten Craig, because you're asking too much. And so I do. I like the fact that you were able to talk to your staff and able to help moderate what.
Their workload was.
But I think that we have to be kind to ourselves as to how we can show up and what we're capable of.
And that is going to vary day to day. Yeah, that is that is.
Going to vary a lot, like for so many reasons. Have you been drinking the night before, how did you sleep? What stresses have you got going on? Like just how's your own you know, all of that kind of thing. And so the how long did you do that that volume of training for and.
Is a lot?
Why did you need to do so much?
Originally? So it's funny as I talk, I'm thinking, I'm picturing it in my mind. So my first studio was eight hundred meters from where I'm sitting, Yeah, on Hampton Street. It was two two five nine A Hampton Street. It was an upstairs, fifteen hundred square foot premises and initially it was me and then a young trainer. By the way, you know, this is just a side bar, but interesting.
So when it opened, when I opened the first Harpers, there was no personal training qualification, there was no personal training industry, there was no accreditation, there was no insurance. So I was in an industry that doesn't exist, and I was constantly coming up against barriers and hurdles. Of course that would be broken down over time. But even when I went to the council to get permits to they're like, well, it's a gym. I'm like, it's not
a gym. There's no members We've got gym equipment, so it's a gym, and I go, no, it is. I've also got pictures on the walls, but it's not an art gallery, right, So like people did not understand. I go, I'm a consultant and I consult people. And there are no classes, there's no mass. People can't walk in off the street and pay for a membership or pay for a session. Everything is you know. So but yeah, I did that for a long time. I did that from well,
I started peteeing. I started in the fitness industry in eighty two as a gym instructor, so I was eighteen. By the time I was twenty, I was running gyms twenty twenty one, twenty two, I started peteing in other people's gyms when no one knew what it was. I was essentially really taking people through up program and getting paid for it. But then rather than going on, here's the card, I'll take you through the card, then I'm like, fuck the card off, I'll just train you freestyle. And
that morphed into what we have now. And of course it would have happened without Craig Carpet was going to happen anyway, but I was just on the ground floor. And then you know, and then I opened my first center when I was twenty six. But from when I was probably twenty three or four, I would have done at least fifty personal training sessions a week until I was at least forty five, and I owned I owned a gym, and Tola was about eight or nine years ago.
Yes, but what sort of a toll did that take on you?
Yeah? It was all right, I mean, like physically, I will say I got lazier over the years, I will say my effort and my focus over because I ended up where I had three gyms, I had at any given time at least fifty or sixty trainers across those three gyms, two other businesses, and so my attention to detail with some things wasn't there. And yeah, but it took a toll. It took a toll. But also I don't know, it's you come out the other side and you go, yeah, look, I mean, here are some of
the costs, but the benefits far outweigh the cost. I mean, I learned how to punt of business. I learned how to lead people. I learned how to perform under pressure and make hard decisions about hard things. I learned how to resolve conflict. I learned how to navigate a million different people and personalities. And I learned how to teach
and coach and mentor. And you know, you just like at the coal face of building a brand and a business and all of the moving parts, you know, technical and human and professional and biological, psychological, sociological, et cetera. Like it's way more educational than any course you can ever do. It doesn't matter what the course is I learned more in my first year of business than I've learned in I'm now in my tenth year of UNI.
So UNI is great. Yeah, but you really want to learn fucking jump in the fire.
You do.
It's so true.
The same was true with teaching when I'm back in the day thirty thirty years ago. Almost not quite. Yeah, you just because yep, you have to think on your feet and the unexpected happens, and you have to be able to, like you say, solve problems and lead people, answer questions and deal with all the balls.
In the air.
So are you now that it's funny? Like this is not my podcast, but I just wanted to ask you another question.
It must have been hard to let go of all of that.
Because you've worked so hard, like it's something to be incredibly proud of what you built, and it takes a huge amount of courage to step up and say, yeah, three gyms, lots of staff, you know, like to be able to it must have been very very hard to sort of start whinding it back or imagine perhaps you sold the gyms. I'm not sure, but hard to step away from something you've spent so much time on.
Hey, yes, and no, yes, in some ways very much, because a lot of my confidence and self worth and brand was Craig the fitness industry, not but guru, right Craig, you know the personal training pit that guy. Right. Yes, I never saw myself, but I got introduced at fitness conferences as that and all of that stuff that was really nice and good. But I realized earlier, like you know, by the time I was thirty three or four, I'd already worked in fitness for sixteen years. You know, that's
a long time. And so by the time I'm thirty eight, I've been in for two decades and I'm still not old. I'm only thirty eight, right, Yeah, And I realized that, I mean for me, And again this is like I think some people will do a version of the same job for forty years and that's kind of good for them, and it kind of works for them, so there's no judgment, just acknowledgement. But for me, I cannot. It doesn't matter how much money I'm making, Like, I can't do the
same thing the same way all the time. I've got to be doing new stuff, for different stuff, for developing stuff for So I got to the point where even though I was pretty good with bodies and anatomy and physiology and biomechanics and all that shit and nutrition and energy systems and adaptation and progressive overload and all those exercise science things. I realized that I wanted to learn
more about people. I learned I knew enough about bodies for what I needed, but I wanted to learn more about the people inside the body, And so I moved away from I started, you know, I got a whole bunch of managers for my gyms and eventually got out of them. But like I didn't even go to UNI until I was thirty six for the first time. But
I realized that understanding anatomy and fears, et cetera. Was good, but it was really only a small part of the how do I help people really change forever and be inside? Had out different equation, So trying to and I'm still you know, you're still learning. I'm still learning. It's like, of all there is to know about humans and human behavior,
I know fucking nothing, right. So that for me was a real kind of moment where I went, I'm going to move away from being the fitness industry boften, I'm still going to do stuff, but that's not my priority or focus. Yeah, and then I just I started doing I mean, I did my first paid speaking gig at twenty six, the same year that I opened my first gym,
and I was terrible. It was terrible, but I realized that I liked it, and I thought maybe I have some potential despite the fact that I had no skill, no awareness, no miles on the clock, fucking you know. But it was terrible. Like, as a product, it was pretty terrible, but the moment and the experience for me was not terrible. Yeah, And so from there I just
went ah. And even now, like I think, I think, like, how good a podcast because it gives me and you an opportunity to do this and talk to you know, ten thousand people, wow or whatever it is. It's like, oh, what else is there? You know? It's I'm always you know, I'm really curious about just evolving and doing new things. And Yeah, but even if I'm doing something that I really like, if I do it the same way day
in day out, eventually I won't like it. I need some kind of left turn or right turn or expansion or development or I need to keep learning and growing. There's no anxiety around that. But I also like people think I'm a workaholic. I'm not. I but I am somewhat obsessed with doing shit that I like doing and that I'm interested in.
Yeah.
Yeah, tend to have a really good skill and capacity to get other people to do this shit I don't want to do.
I hear. And I was doing some work on Sunday at the pool. So our daughter has a gym membership, the local sort of recreation center. It's huge, and I thought, look, rather than drop and go and come back and on a Sunday the bus is running, I'll just take my laptop. And I forgot to put my parking in the in the car, you know, pay for parking. And there was
a feller beside me. Oh gosh, I'd be guessing his age, maybe in his maybe sixty five maybe, And I just said, oh, look, can you know I've just got to run out in the rain to put a parking ticket in. Can you just mind my stuff? And was halfway through a yoga you know, just all the stuff you don't want to pack up. And I came back and we got chatting and he's like, you're working on a Sunday, like is that what you're doing? And I'm like yeah, he goes, gee whiz, you must be.
You know, like love what you do.
And I was like, well, actually, I'm like you, Craig, like any any type like I have to constantly. I mean, I want to be a really present parent, you know, at sixteen and fourteen, you know, nearly seventeen and fifteen. Actually, like the time is so like I always wherever possible, I want to prioritize that time. But also I love my work. Incidentally, this fella said to me, if I wasn't married, he would have asked me to a dance. Wasn't that so cute?
Oh my god, Oh my god.
I haven't been proposition like that in a long time.
Wow, he would have asked you to a dance?
Isn't that lovely?
And I hope you said, well, if I wasn't married, I would have gone to the dance. No, I hope you didn't say that because.
I didn't know what to say.
I laughed and said that's really lovely, thank you so much, and.
Probably a better response than me.
But in light of what you were saying before, you got me thinking, because you know, they are like there are a lot of us over the course of our careers who have kind of taken lots of different chans and changed professions, and there'll be you know, listeners now sort of maybe in the middle of that, like what do I do? When do I make the call? And
how do I let go? And I distinctly remember because I started as a teacher and I left to go to work for Beyond Blue because in my last year of teaching, I'd experienced major depressive disorder because of my diagnosed anxiety, and I was sort of coming through that. I thought, I really want to work in this world of mental health. I don't want other people to be
blindsided like I was. I left Beyond Blue. I won't go into the details, but yeah, that kind of contract of mine that shifted into State and I didn't want to take up a different contract there, so I thought, I'm going back to UNI.
And because I went back to UNI.
When I finished my PhD, I actually started writing articles for sports science magazines.
Did you know I did this, Craik, Have I ever told you this?
I did not.
Yeah, well, I realized with my PhD, I really like writing. I'd never known that about myself and I love sports science, and I love well being and I'm still writing to mental health. So I started pitching sports science articles to like Australian Motorsport, Rugby League Week, inside Cricket, you know, football,
inside football and anyway. I started to develop this career as a journalist, I suppose, and I loved it so much, variety and just I loved telling the stories of the science and bringing a new kind of perspective to everyone who loves this particular sports so they could learn more about what's happening with their athletes. And I also wrote about depression, interviewed Heath Evans.
You know, I spoke a lot.
I wrote a lot about mental health as well, and one interview completely changed the course of my life.
And it was a real.
Recognizable turning point where I was kind of feeling like I had a foot in two feet in one camp and I was going to be would I be prepared to let all that go and go in a new direction.
And that was when I interviewed the head of the AFL Players Association, Dr Joe Mitchell, and we talked about all of the ways that as psychologists and leaders in the AFLPA, they looked after the players and that's when I got introduced to the science of well being and acceptance and commitment therapy, and I was just like so enamored with what she shared with me, and I just thought, oh goodness, I think this is the direction I want to go now.
I want to know more, I want to learn more about this.
And I remember saying to her when I started going in that direction, and it meant sort of starting to leave behind what I'd been doing. She said, how long have you been doing it? And I said seven years? Seven years kind of writing and working as a freelancer, And she said that's good for any relationship, isn't it.
It's okay to say goodbye.
Yeah. Wow.
And it was a really like I'll never forget.
And it was kind of like just that pivotal moment where you go, Yep, I've been working like I was being interviewed, you know. I was regularly at the AFL headquarters. I was makespertise was shared during the drug scandal at Essendon, like I had established myself, and I was just at that point I just turned my back on it and couldn't be like more proud of myself for making that decision, because sometimes those decisions are.
So hard and we don't know what's coming.
But yeah, that was kind of like one of the kind of daisy chains in my history. But I fully believe nothing, nothing's ever wasted, that everything you do builds on what you've done, even though out of context it might not make sense to people. Yes, that's that's my experience anyway.
It's funny that we're talking about this, you know, stepping out of something that we're good at. We know we're good at. We've got recognition, we've got acceptance, we've got security, we've got familiarity, you know. And then but and then to step into something that you don't have any of that right, and you're stepping into, for one of a better term, an unnus space or new territory near new
unfamiliar environment or whatever. Yeah, And I just finished a podcast an hour ago with Tiff and Bobby, who's a regular, and we're talking about this idea which is worth revisiting momentarily because it's relevant to what we're talking about. Yeah,
which is this idea that I like. It's called starting scared. Yeah, Starting scared, Yeah, starting scared, Starting insecure, starting unprepared, starting not ready, starting with all your bullshit, starting with all your self doubt, starting with all your just fucking start. Of course you're not ready. Of course you're scared. Of course you've got self doubt. Of course you of course
you're human. Like if you wait until you're ready, or if you wait until you've got no fear, or if you wait until you've got no self doubt, you're going to wake up in a minute, and you'll be sixty and you will have been living in a holding pattern. Yeah, and hating your life and hating yourself because you never took a risk and you know, Okay, so you start and it doesn't work. Cool, big deal, like life. You know,
you get embarrassed. Also, fine, you lose a few dollars, Fine, you know, you learn a few things, You grow, you revolve like we literally you know, cannot grow, I mean grow grow in comfort. We've got to get uncomfortable to adapt to improve. Doesn't mean comfort's not good. I love comfort. I love lying on bed watching Netflix, chilling out. Like somebody said the other day on my thing, nothing good comes from comfort. I'm like, well, that's just not true.
But we don't need comfort all the time, and we don't need discomfort all the time, it's like finding that sweet spot of let's do some hard shit, let's do some silly shit. And also not everything needs to be logical and strategic. Sometimes we just do stuff because it's a fun fucking thing to do. There doesn't need to be any deep philosophical.
Meaning, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's such, it's so good to revisit it. And it's really what everything comes back to. And if we can do that hard thing, eat the frog, or start scared.
Or you know, feel feel the fear and do it anyway, it is.
Like it only gets easier when you do that and then you rest. So you take you take that because we need to. We need to manage the state of our nervous system. We need we can't be because when when there's a threat, when when there's uncertainty, it's threatening, we respond to that physiologically and we need to close that loop, that that stress loop that gets opened and activated. We need to be able to close that and recover so that we can do it all again the next day.
The other thing I think for us all to be really cognizant of is that when when because it is threatening, our brain does detect a threat when there's uncertainty or we're.
Out on a limb.
We are out on a limb, and we we want to be where the limb takes us. We want to be where the limb takes us. We don't want to kind of.
Be on it.
But in fact, that's the beautiful part of any of these experiences, is what it takes to get there. But it can for some people. The anxiety that when that alarm sounds, the physical symptoms that can be triggered by that are so intolerable. Yes, and look that used to be me.
Yes, it used to be me.
I've been, I've been. You know this table I see it in our dining room is my office, and I remember sitting at this table thinking, I want to do this when I feel better. When I don't, you know, when the fear goes, you know, like what you were saying before. Yes, And then my brother more or less said to me what you were just saying. You and
Tiff and Bobby were talking about that. In fact, to start my career as a freelancer, I've been given the number of Julian Cribb, who he was an author and a writer who was connected I was connected with and I had his number, and it took me months to pick up the phone and ring just to say, hey, a mutual friend of ours is passed on your number and recommended I get in touch and my brother and I was just waiting. I was just waiting to feel good about it, to feel calm and confident and secure.
And on a phone call with my brother, He's just like, well, that's not going to happen, and he said some really wise words that prompted me to do it. Scared, but I just really want to spend a moment just for because I know that somebody listening out there is going to be thinking, I know all this.
It all makes perfect sense for me in my head.
It's logical, I get it, but I just feel so overwhelmed by my symptoms. I just feel like I'm groupled by it. And if you are listening and that is you, please please get extra help, because there's a whole world waiting for you, and sometimes we need, you know, other professionals to help us. Just you know, like just start to get a little bit of momentum and then we can take it from there.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that was that was.
Kind of one of the things that jumped out at me when you were saying what you were saying.
It's so funny that, and I totally agree. Sometimes we just need someone who kind of gets it and gets us and can hold our hand for a moment. You said you were catching your thought for a minute, right, And as you were doing that, I wrote uncertainty. And then you came out and you said, because I wanted to remember, I said to you, I want to We had a little moment everyone that you didn't hear, where we had a little ten second break. Yeah, and I said,
I've got something I want to talk about it. But that was it, and then you started It's so funny because like it's interesting how in tune people are sometimes. But I think that whole idea of you know, like
starting scared. You could also call it choosing uncertainty. And all of us, you know, people with anxiety, in inverted commas or not, we're all attracted to predictability and certainty and familiarity because you know, our brain's always looking out for us and all of those things are low risk because we know what's coming. And I'd rather know what's coming. But sometimes the key is to fucking step into you know what you don't know and what you can't see coming.
Yeah, and you're exactly right.
And one of the things that can help, I think is going well, you know, I mean it's classic anxious thinking. What's you know, like catastrophic thinking going to the worst case.
But with catastrophic.
Thinking, we're actually in the moment leaving that the worst has happened. Whereas if we can in a measured way ask ourselves, well, what is the worst outcome here? And it could be that you are applying for a new role you don't get it, Well, are you worse off than where you were to begin with? Absolutely not, because now you've got a cracking CV and you've had a bite at the cherry, you've had more interview experience, you're
a bit closer to that next step. And whilst it can be so devastating and disappointing when we don't get what we want, and we don't always, one other thing that can help is to go you know what. I've probably been devastated and disappointed before and I got through it. I'll get through it again. But we've got no hope of getting a step closer to our goals, our dreams, our ambitions our Maybe it's a person in your world who you want to, you know, approach, might this great
likelihood of rejection and that's a risk. Do you want to stay close to the trunk and never know? Or do you want to go out on the limb and you know it's I often think, not that often, but occasionally think about if I go tomorrow, Am I okay with that? If you know, hit by a bus? What would I be okay like? And I think the answer to that is yes, still obviously want to spend How old am I fifty?
What do you reckon? I've got, Craig, maybe another.
You've got I reckon you've got about forty years of really good operating and maybe you'll slide into about one hundred and two. The last twelve months, last twelve months could be a bit dodgy, but it.
Really could be, couldn't it?
And as hard as it is, I think, is it Tim Ferriss who said read the obituary?
Is you know, make it a habit of reading.
The obituaries, because you know, like we've all lost someone, We've all, you know, most of us have lost someone special, and we always sort of feel like it's most of the time it was too short, not enough time for them, and and you know, eventually our numbers up, and I just sort of just sort of for me, you know, and for the people that I get to connect with in my orbit, I just want people to kind of feel like, you know, I'm making in roads towards the
things that are important to me, and I'm not you know, I'm not comfortable. I'm not feeling confident necessarily, I'm not sure of what's going to happen, but I'm going to try.
Yeah.
Yeah, And that's you know, there's this duality of you know, being human. Is there the stuff we know and the stuff we feel. You know, I can simultaneously no, I'm I'm you know, I've got some skills and some competence while feeling completely incompetent, like feeling like a fucking idiot, but knowing because I've got data and evidence to suggest, well,
you're not a complete idiot. You know, You've done a few things that would indicate a modicum of intelligence and skill and competence, but that you know, when you you know, for one of the ones for me, not so much anymore, but sometimes is standing at the side of a room
you do the same thing as me. But standing at the side of a room, especially if it's a big room, especially if it's a big stage, especially if there's lots of people, and where I'm a little lapel fucking microphone and some blow or girl that you don't know is talking about you and doing your bio and telling everybody how fucking incredible you're going to be, And I'm like, ah, keep that down, will you. You know, let's set the bar low, let's underpromise, let's over deliver, not the other
way around. Right and then and then, even though I've done that literally thousands of times, now it's part of me like, yeah, this is the day where you're going to come crashing down and they'll all figure out that you're not funny and clever, you're actually shit. And that's today. So enjoy that all the best.
You know.
You should rewrite that introduction, just like lower the bar.
Yeah, that'll help.
Here's Craig Harper could be shit, sometimes funny, often not. Thinks he's clever not so much, but look he'll have a go. I can't promise anything, and now here he is.
Yay.
Poor people are like fuck, really, what are we budgeting. But it is funny where when you do a certain thing, it's like people think I'm an extrovert because I can do this, and I'm not really a hard introvert. But I'm definitely not an ex revert. Like I don't if I'm out in a group or wherever. The last thing I want is to be the center of attention. Just to be the center of attention, I have zero desire. I would much rather be in the background, like happily
in the background. Yeah, the need to get in front of a group because I like being in front of a group for the sake of it. No, I haven't none of that at all. Yeah, you know so, but it's yeah, so there's still that that. Yeah, you can simultaneously have certain skills and capacity to do things in front of a group or an audience or to host a podcast. But also you know that it depending on the situation. There are times when I'm not shy, but
I'm quite reserved. Like I'm like, no, really good things. I get often asked at social things or at like sometimes an event if I'd like to say something, and I go no, definitely, I really don't. Thank you. It's like, oh, yeah, but you're you're I go, nah, I'm good, thank you. Like at people's birthdays, big birthdays and shit, do you
want to say something? I go, nice, I don't, you know, if it's my best mate and he wants me to, maybe, but other than that, no, I have no desire to just get up there at all.
So yeah, you know, I get that. When Annie Jenny, when Uneie Jenny died in October and we had her celebration of life, then obviously well, I mean, maybe it's not obvious, but at this particular event, which was not a funeral, it was, you know, a gathering of people tan coffee and afternoon tea and some people speaking about her, and then there was kind of like open mic, and I had I had thought about all the things that I would want to say, but then I realized I
actually have said everything to her that I wanted to say, because we were bedside for twelve days in the ICU and she was conscious for a lot of it, and I sort of had decided I'm not going to say anything, which I think when I sort of told a few family members, you know, I've decided not to say anything, I sort of felt like I didn't feel the need to do that. So I planned that. But then on the day, after watching all those the photos and all the memories and feeling so moved, I was compelled to.
But yeah, it's interesting, isn't it. Maybe the assumptions that if you you know, I mean, it's they're fair assumptions, aren't they. You've daily podcast and professional speaker, and so surely you've got something you want to add.
Yeah. I often in a room, I'll feel like I'm the least interesting person. And I'm not saying that. I'm not fishing like it depends. You know. It's funny. It's all context dependent, isn't it. It's like I say this, often, depending on what room you're in, it could be the smartest or the dumbest. You could be, the most talented or the least. You can be, the most skilled or the least you could be. You know, It's like, I'm often in rooms with other people where I'm the least
interesting person in the room. I just want to listen to you. I just want to listen to the others.
You know what, I think the rooms to be in, aren't they That's the best.
I want to I always say to people, I used to say this, and it kind of expanded from this. But you know, when I was really young and I was training people or teaching people, I'd say, and this is purely about you know, training and sport, I'd say, train with people better than you like whatever you do. If you're a tennis player, play with someone better than you.
If you're a if you're a want to be bodybuild or a power left or just a gym junkie, train with people that are better than you, better genetics than you, stronger than you like. Do that, you know, have debates with people that are smarter than you, like whatever, you know. It's like, yeah, if you're the best in your group, then go get in another group.
Yes, the ego can stand in the way sometimes, can't it This willingness to sort of say, hey, I don't I don't know, help me. You know, I remember saying to Pete, We've we've got a couple of acres.
And you know, righte on Moro and a handma and.
Lots of you know, busney bits and stuff like that, you know, the stuff that you sort of need. And you know, originally, when something would break down, neither of us had the skills to fix it, whereas you know, we know people who can go, oh yeah, I'm just out fixing the mara and would have I don't know why I'd.
Made them sound like an old fellah, I'm pracked from the maa.
But you know the skills to do it, and and you sort of get a bit down yourself and you realize, I've never learned. I never learned. I never was interested to learn. If I wanted to learn how to fix them more, I'm sure I could. Peter could as well. He's actually taught himself a lot. There's a lot that he can do now. But when we were in our early twenties and just starting off no clue, and I think we can be really hard on ourselves sometimes and we're like, well, I don't know, I'm not one of
those people. I don't know how to do that kind of stuff. And it's like, well, you never learned. It's as simple as that, And if you wanted to, you could, Yeah, yeah, just go.
To a different room. Hey, Joe, always awesome your butte. And you know, if I hear about you whisking away with a sixty five year old man from the swimming pool, I won't be surprised, poor Pete. Tell people how they can connect with you, please and thank you.
Ohwa's love chatting with you.
Craig. Yes, well, Hello Anxiety is my podcast, so come on over and have a listen. And yes, also Instagram a LinkedIn, and yeah, have a website as well, So yeah, reach out, connect, say hello, and yeah look forward to connecting back.
You're the best. Well hello anxiety, best known for podcast in the world. Well, hello Anxiety, see you next time.
Thanks her, see you next time.
Bye.