I'll get a welcome to you know what it is. I don't even know why I say it anymore. Fuck it just I'm not even going to say where you're out or what you're listening to. I'm just going to say Hi. I'm going to start with the lady in the room, lady, and the lady looks around. You're a lady. You know you're a lady, but you're pretty much I mean, you do declare that you're thirty percent dude, but you're at least seventy percent lady.
That's a lot too, isn't it. That's the majority? Good?
Yeah, like you are? You are pretty much yep, three quarterswoman. Which part of you is more dude than do that?
Maybe my biceps and my mouth, my language, you.
Do have a body mouth. I don't know how much of that I want to take credit for, but either way, I'm proud.
Thanks for the influence.
Yeah, you're welcome. Hi, Bobby. Hey, what's going on over there? Well?
I'm on a podcast, obviously, Yeah that's good.
How's it going?
So I'm gonna say where I am or what it is, because we're not doing that this episode.
Apparently, no, no, no, or.
Trying to calculate, like what percentage doude I am? I don't know, Like what are you reading in this get up? It's kind of hard to tell.
In it it is were you wearing something that looks like a cross between a cardigan and a vest and a shawl? What is that?
It's it's very it's ambiguous. I'm not even sure just myself.
I'm not going to speculate some kind of well color would you call that tiff burgundy? What would you call that item of clothing that he's got over him?
Peculiar?
What would you call it? Me?
I don't know, like something like like a colorful version a Fiddler on the Roof. A friend of mine actually said, like, I look like Fiddler on the roofs, Just like do you realize you dress exactly like.
You're just like doing a play on Fiddler on the Roof.
And I never noticed that before, but yeah, now that I look, I look in the mirror before I go out, and I'm like very wavy, like a lot of layers and long things and usually like something.
What's what's a temperature where you're at? What's the typical temperature where you're at at at the minute, Like day to day.
Oh, it's been it's been different. Like today, it's really great.
Today it's been about I would say, nineteen degrees, but it's been it's been like seven eight degrees for the whole week, like a windy, rainy seven eight degrees.
We're just coming towards the end of out our warm spot. So it's I think it's going to be about thirty degrees today, but I reckon in the next week or two that's kind of plummet. But ah, dear, how's work mate? Are you doing well? Are you loving life? Are you peaks and troughs like a normal human?
Like a normal human.
I wanted to talk today, which you two know because I ran it by you and you were both underwhelmingly enthusiastic. So see if you can fucking turn up the volume a little bit now that we're actually recording the idea. I was thinking to myself about the amount of conversations I've had with people who want to do something but they're never ready, Like they want to whatever, build a business, build a brand, do a course, you know, whatever it is, but whenever I talk to them, it's not the right time.
Like a lot a lot of people it's not now, but it's soon. And some people you talk to twenty five times, and no matter which of the twenty five times you talk to them, it's never the time. It's always coming. It's always a Monday, or it's always January. It's always when the kids are on holidays or not on holidays, or when you know they reach this number,
of this threshold. But and so I was talking about the idea of essentially starting before you're ready, in inverted commas, or starting scared, or starting insecure, or starting you know, just just starting knowing that like when you look back at Tiff, like when you look back at your first ever recorded podcast that you did of your show, and you know how much now you didn't know then. Not that you wouldn't have started, but you realize that you
can't get the skill and knowledge and understanding. You've got nearly a thousand episodes in of yours and probably a thousand of mine, so probably two thousand plus episodes without all the fuck ups and without the good episodes and bad episodes, and without all the lessons.
Right.
Yeah, I remember pledging at the beginning, I'll never not put an episode up because I wanted to learn from every episode I recorded.
And I did.
I didn't want my own insecurities to get in the way of putting things up because sometimes we record and we think we're shit. And if you don't put things into the world and get the practice, you don't you don't get the feedback, you don't get the lessons, you don't get the improvement.
Yeah. Yeah. When I started UNI the first time, I was thirty six, so day one university. It was two thousand. I was sitting at ACU in the city. In my first ever lecture was in a computer lab. I didn't know how to use a computer and they tell me to log on using my student ID code. I don't know what that means. So I asked this seventeen year old next to me, can you help me? And they look at me like I'm some kind of fucking know,
unintelligent dinosaur, which essentially compared to her, I was. I couldn't even I couldn't and I'm like, where do I find that? And she's like, it's on that thing around your neck. I had land right, I go oh, and then I look down there's a student ID number. I'm like, ah, that I mean, I was so not ready for university. I was so I didn't understand the language. I hadn't been to school for eighteen years. And then when I
was at school, I didn't really do any work. You know, it's a whole new culture, it's a whole new environment. I was literally double everyone's age, and I definitely wasn't ready in terms of practically and you know, technically, but you just learn. And the first semester I was so inept and so ill equipped. But you just start and then the things that you need to develop and understand and learn you do. But like, how would you ever be ready for university without going to university?
It's a mindset, isn't it being ready?
Yeah? Yeah, I think so.
It's not even in a place because by the time you're where you once thought was ready, you've moved that goalpost.
It's what the success goalpost.
It's like, well on this now, but there's better and I'm not there yet.
Do you remember a moment in time, Bobby, where you did something for the first time and then you looked back and realized how ill equipped or ill prepared or unqualified you were, but it ended up okay eventually.
That's about eighty percent of the things I've done, and that's just for the first time, like on one hundred and first time.
That's where I landed.
So like being that we're talking about being inept and this whole thing about getting ready to get ready. Last week, I gave a very important presentation and it completely bombed. And I'm only saying that because several of the participants told me you completely bombed, so I believe them, but I did not. Oh, it was bad. It was really bad. Actually I had to get cut off because I thought I had double the amount of time that I did, so I had to like actually cut me and have
somebody jump in and take over for me. It's like stop, Bobby, Like, ah, okay, wait, so I'm not supposed to be talking anymore. I think they cut my mic. So yeah, it's just not one of not one of my better performances, but to be fair, by far not my worst. And one of the things that we were talking about, or I was talking about for a very long period of time apparently, was dimensions of well being and how we utilize eight dimensions of well being. And you know, there are obvious reasons for that.
One being well being is not about one thing. It is a highly integrated dynamic state. But when you take a look at eight different dimensions, if you want to identify where somebody is within their level of readiness, since we're talking about readiness, and you pull from like James Petraska in the trance theoretical model of change, you can kind of all most determine where their level of readiness is by where? Importance right, like how much do I
what's by why? And confidence? Do I have the skills to engage in the how where do they intersect? And another variable is readiness? Right, So yes, I'm confident it's important, but am I ready? And if you look if you look at those dimensions, given the context of what's happening in someone's life at any given moment, one of them is going to have a very high degree of importance or readiness or confidence versus the others.
But the most important.
Variable, like if you look at motivational interviewing, and like decisional balance sheets and like okay, resolving ambivalence. When you want two things that are in conflict, what drives behavior most? Is it is it mitigating the content sequences of doing something the things you fear? Or is it the positives? Is it the benefits that you're going to gain?
Now?
I used to think, because of the negativity bias that all human beings have, it's mitigating consequences, But I was dead wrong. The research shows it's how many benefits? How many reasons do you have for doing what you're doing? The deeper your why, the more resolute you're going to be in a house. So I think a lot of times when people set out to do something, why are you doing it? There's usually an outcome out there and that's what, Oh my god, what if I fail? What
if nobody likes this? What if nobody buys this? What about your intrinsic reasons? Like why are you doing what you're doing? Because sometimes getting started requires you doing something for the sake of doing it in and of itself. And like TIV said, when you start doing things like that and you start putting things out, not necessarily because you're attached to the outcome, but because you want that feedback,
like how did I do? And it's like people tell you like, oh that was amazing or I really like this or this was complete shit. Yeah that might hurt, but that's essential. That's essential for growth. It I don't think it's even possible on a neurobiological level to learn and to grow without a level of frustration, without a level of pain. Now now, too much you develop anxiety, you just completely frustrate.
I think we talked about this a couple of weeks ago.
Too little, you're just not going to have the level of dopamine or epinephrine to facilitate learning and growing. So if you're frustrated, if you're if you're scared, I mean, if you're absolutely terrified, maybe scale back on the audaciousness of the first step. But if you're not scared at all, that's troublesome because how are you going.
To get into flow states?
How are you really going to get into a zone where you're getting better and you're struggling because you stay there for a little bit. It's like going for a run, Like the first like I would ever go for a run, but I've heard for people who have gone for runs, first ten to fifteen minutes just suck. After that, it's amazing, it's so engaging, it's like it sets you up for
the rest of the day. And I think it's like that with any endeavor, you've got to be willing to go into the suck and embrace what you don't know if you're ever going to get enjoyment out of it, because if you're not getting any level of enjoyment and fulfillment, you're probably not going to get very very good and you're probably not going to facilitate the exact outcome you.
Would want in the first place.
So it's like, I think it's those stages of this shit sucks engagement. I didn't even realize I was engaged because I was too engaged to realize I was engaged.
But after the fact, Wow, that felt good.
And then putting that stuff out there and seeing what the reaction is and learning and growing and moving forward.
I love it. I feel like there's different I think too. When some people say I'm not ready, they're really talking about psychologically or you know, emotionally, and they're saying, I'm scared. I'm not ready. I'm scared. So there's that kind of not ready, But then there's the I'm not ready because I don't have the skills or the knowledge or the
understanding or the practical tools or resources. And I feel like when I started UNI, I was ready mentally and emotionally but in terms of how to do it, I was completely ill prepared, like practically, and I should have done Look looking back, I could have really prepped myself much better. But at the time, I had three three gyms, I was working full time, and I just showed up
on day one. And while I absolutely didn't expect that I would be a superstar academic by any means, I realized by the end of this literally lecture one, what a steep learning it was going to be and how unlikely it was that I would even get through one semester. And that was just because I don't even understand these words. I don't know how to Like. I was literally looking at a keyboard, pressing my left index finger on each letter. It would take me a minute to write four words.
And then I'm sitting next seventeen year olds that are just writing I don't know, sixty seventy words a minute, not even looking at their fingers. I'm like, that's fucking voodoo, that's magic. How are they doing this? You know? But that was the starting point, and I think there's that,
you know, being able to Like. When I wrote my first book, I was so riddled with insecurity and self doubt and imposter syndrome because clearly I could never write a book, and clearly no one will publish this, and clearly no one will read it or buy it. And then you start with a draft and you go, well, it's terrible, but I can make it better. And then by the tenth version it's it's less terrible again. Then by the time I wrote book number four or five,
there's a level of it. And it's not that I had innately more talent, but I just had more skill and more understanding. And so now you go into it with a level of preparedness and readiness that you couldn't have had without doing Book one with all your ineptitude.
Right, well, I don't know.
Like my first book, I had absolutely zero and pastor syndrome. I was really engaged and I was confident. It was after I read it, when it was published, then I had it pasta centdrome. I was like, yeah, this is this is pretty bad. So it happened in reverse for me.
But you're an idiot.
So I just wrote a chapter for a collaboration book and I agreed to that. When I got back from the Humalayas, I was invited to do it, and I sat down one day and I did some writing and I ended up writing I think it was about three and a half thousand words, so it's just a small chapter.
Wrote it all out. I thought, I'll come back to that, I'll do some more work on it.
And then it got to this got to some deadlines looming, and I just emailed and said I'm going to step out of this, thanks guys, because I'm not feeling it. And I hadn't even gone back and read it. I was like, what I wrote was a bit shit, So I'm not going to do it. And Susan said, can I change your mind? I picked you for a reason, and so we had a quick chat and I said, all right, i'll go revise what I wrote. I'll do some writing, I'll figure it out. I basically just sent
through what I had written and she loved it. So it's getting published. But and I was like, you know, I'll probably read it at some point and go that was shit. But it was like I almost did what I tell people not to do and just pulled the pin on something i'd already done the work on because of imposter syndrome.
Yeah, but you can't care better at what you're not.
Doing right, So exactly, you know, next time.
You write a chapter or a book or whatever, it'll be better. You'll start from a different you know. It's like you and you're boxing. The first time you started boxing, you probably got punched in the face or the equivalent. Then eventually, you know, it's like that changes because there was a first time that you did it where you were scared, where you're incompetent, where you're insecure, where you are unprepared, but there was still a first time. That's
my point. It's like, I feel a little bit like we we sometimes won't do anything if we think we might not be good at it, or we might look silly, or we might fail, or we might not measure up or as be as good as the others. Well, that's literally where we start with everything, isn't it.
Imagine how many incredible books are available now that mightn't have been available, Or imagine how many amazing manuscripts are sitting in someone's been because they've decided what I just did, but now they've gone on to become an incredible author that's written life.
Changing books, not saying well I'm going to do that, but you know, like there'd be so many people that did what I did.
Yeah, Stephen King, Steve, I don't know what it was, but his first book, Ease Me, supposedly like he had he had sent it out and got so many rejections from so many publishers that he had he had just thrown it in the bin, the manuscript, and it was his wife who took it out and sent it to one more publisher and that started his career. I mean, your brain is an asshole. I'm not talking to either of you.
I'm speaking in general. Where like lou Wit Tim said, it's like I almost did what I encourage people not to do, and she wrote, this is like, nah, I'm just my head's not in this sent it out and somebody else appraised it as this is exactly what I was looking for.
This is brilliant.
We're not objective, like we tell ourselves a story constantly, it's probably not a true story. Like Martin Sullig, this guy is the father of positive psychology, is the head of the American Psychological Association for years, and he was talking about like we have such expectations of what something should feel like, going back to what your earlier points Greig, it's like, you know, sometimes it's like that's the worst strategy.
He was talking about fighter pilots and snipers, and just like, okay, if you're trained to be a fire pilot, you've got an instructor there, and they're gonna send that plane into
a nosedive until the trainee is terrified. And in that point when they're terrified, they're going to learn how to pull that nose up because you're going to be sleep deprived, you're going to be under so much stress, things happening so quickly, and you're gonna be shitting yourself and you've got to keep that under control and be able to handle that plane if you want to be able to
come back home. And he's like, well, if you if you talk to like a lot of people today, they'll be like, okay, well, oh jeez, you know you're tired. Put them on medaphanel and you know, maybe do a gratitude journal before you hop into the plane.
You're going to die.
It's maybe bring your mum and you'll be all right. You'll be all right. Have you had breakfast?
You know, talking yourself out of something.
I think also conversely, what about the people who are smarter and more talented than us three, which is a billion people, I'm sure, no disrespect to you too, but who were super smart, super talented, got such incredible potential, but never actually pressed the button, you know, because of whatever.
And that, you know, those people that could have written that best seller, or could have built a billion dollar brand, or could have started a charity and done incredible things or could have, you know, but because of fear or because of self doubt or you know, they never did. That's that's kind of sad as well. I think, you know, what's that saying don't die with your music still in you?
You know, I think that just being able to I think part of it for me anyway, is saying, look, I'm going to try this and I could fail, and that's okay. I'm going to try this. It could suck, that's okay, I could be shitted it. That's okay, because that's a practical reality of the human experience.
Right Well, Graig, what do you think, what if somebody doesn't know because a lot of people don't know how to do what they do before they've done it. What if somebody doesn't know exactly what it is they want to do, Like how powerful is the why?
Like, what do you do?
I know there's something I love and there's contextually something I want to do, but I'm not really sure exactly what that is.
What are your thoughts about?
Yeah, that is a great question. I mean a couple of things come to mind. The first thing is, I think I used to do this thing. I don't do it much anymore because it's I'm working with a slightly different capacity. Bit when I would work with people and they knew that where they were wasn't where they wanted to be, but they didn't know exactly literally or metaphorically, they didn't know really exactly where they wanted to be.
So we would do this reverse goal setting process where you just go, all right, do you want to work in an office? No? Do you want to put on a suit every day? I do not. Do you want to work a nine to five I do not. Do you want to?
You know?
And then all of a sudden you eliminate a million jobs, you know, So you start to get clear about the things that you don't want. And even if we reverse engineer things or we use that same protocol with things like do you want high blood pressure? No? Do you want to be out of do you want to be poor? Do you want to be whatever? You know you can go?
All right? Well, then well then if you don't want to saw back and you don't want to high blood pressure, and you don't want you know, a shitty immune system, and you don't want to be predisposed to disease because you have a crappy lifestyle or crappy habits or behaviors, then let's put in place of protocol with aligns with
which aligns with that, you know. So I think there's that, But also I just think, you know, like, even though I'm kind of doing you know, my researchers or science based, I actually think I'm more naturally creative than I am academic and scientific. You know. For me, creativity I find easy, not that I'm brilliant at it, but I find it much more like creating things and being funny and telling stories and coming up with an idea and turning the idea into a thing and having a concept in my
head that becomes a real thing outside my head. That's a creative process. I find that my more my natural habitat than me writing academic papers. Like for me, that is me doing a hard thing that it's not something I'm great at, it's not my natural habitat, you know.
So I think if you can get clear about the things where like where do you feel the best, what's your you know, what is like for you your version of your natural habitat where you feel like you most belong, but also maybe you can do the most good, Like I feel even with this podcast, while we share lots of stories and ideas and information and research and that
I still over the top of that. My My priority is that we create an experience that firstly is just really good to listen to, Like is this an interesting conversation? Are these good stories? Is this relevant?
You know?
So for me it's like I guess trying to help people find that part of maybe what they haven't found, versus I've got to have a job and I've got to pay the bills.
That resonates with me, like what do you really not want and what's on the other side of that. Yeah, I don't even think you have to have a correct answer. It's not like this lightning bolt hits you. It's oh, it's clear. I think there's also an element of go out and play with that like we talk about like carving out a path and stick to.
Itiveness and all of this is very important, but.
Mammals human let's talk human beings dedicate a good portion of our life to play. Like Stuart Brown in his book Play, he poses a question.
Why would we do that?
Because that's such a crazy thing for a human being to do, or any primate to do. Because the time that you're playing, you're not hunting, you're not vigilant for threats and predators. It's kind of dangerous because it helps create that creativity. It helps us imagine and test out scenarios that are going to make a difference when we're in real life survival situations, and most important, create socialization, like how do we work together to survive and then thrive.
Go out and play with shit, because you know, you might not have to rate that next book. Maybe it's about playing that next instrument for you or I don't know, maybe you want to be a forest ranger. I don't know where that came from, but I forest Rangers's like a pretty cool job. But play with shit and be okay with like, hey this isn't for me, but oh man, there's some elements, there's some elements of this that I really like.
It's like, oh God, what is that? How do I dissect that?
Yes, yeah, when I when I started working, I figured out which I've shared many times here, so apologies, but it's relevant to this chat. I figured out quite quickly that I didn't want a job. In inverted comments, like I wanted to work, but I didn't want a job. I didn't want to work for someone else necessarily not. My bosses weren't terrible, but it wasn't an inspirational relationship.
They didn't I couldn't learn a lot from them. I felt like I was stagnating and turning up at a certain time and going at a certain time and doing a set to do list of things and like I could do it, and I did it, and I did kind of eight years of that before I opened my first business. But yeah, I was really clear by the time I was about twenty or twenty one that me having a job was not a thing that I wanted for my entire adult life. I wanted to work. I
wanted to create. I wanted to make money. I wanted to take ideas in my head and turn them into actual things in the world. I wanted to build my own team. I wanted to learn, you know, all that stuff that I would learn outside of that other kind of environment and that other model of work. And it's not that the other model of work, the standard or the typical model, is a bad model, but it is
for me. And I think this is one of the other challenges, is trying to figure out not what's good for Bobby or Tip or Craig, not what's good globally or not what's the standard protocol or what are the three or four steps too, but rather for me, the listener, the individual, with my personality and my outlook and my passion and my purpose and the things that like my fire, what's optimal for me, because what's optimal for even us three is not the same, and we're probably quite similar
in a way, you know. But and then that trying to and that's one of the tough things about being coached, I think, is that you know, whoever coaches you, like it or not, they're going to have said ideas. We've
all got said ideas. I think hopefully we're open minded, but at the same time, I'm always looking through the Craig lens at the world and you two are looking through your lens, and it's trying to it's trying to help people to understand themselves so that they can understand for them what's the best door to open for you? Because you're best or will be my worst door.
I think this is why, no matter what we're talking about, whether it's writing that next book, pursuing your dreams, self awareness is the key to of the lock on any forward mobility in your life.
Like what what am I really about?
You know?
What am I? What am I afraid of?
Like? Why am I different than someone else? Like for me, I know I didn't really care if I worked for somebody or if I did my own thing.
I've done both.
But the thing that the thing that for me has been crushing about and not always, but there have been times where I had very specific ideas within an organization. I saw the world in a certain way and the organization did not see the world that way, and I was like, Okay, my ideas are going to have to either be repressed or are they're going to die because this is just not the environment. We're not here right now, We're not going in that direction. And now, when you
love something and you can't and express it. It hurts, and I think.
It dampens you. It's like a dimmer switch on your brain.
Yeah, And also I think, like why could or not want it or not? Most of us live in a kind of a collective mindset and culture where certain things are the things to do and you need to you know, like, you get married, you have a kid or two, you might get divorced, you might get remarried, you have a job, you have a car, you have a you know, there's you know, you get an education. Of course I get it.
But like, for example, I couldn't actually tell you how many, but it would be well over a hundred times people have said to me what is wrong with you? As in what's wrong with me? I don't get it. They're like, I don't get it, what's wrong with you? Why are you not married? Like? Which is? I get it? And that doesn't really hurt me. But it's a really fucking offensive thing to say, right, and because they think and
that's cool, I'm I'm not at all anti marriage. In fact, I think for most people marriage is a great choice, or at least it's the right choice, you know. But but for me, I never did and it wasn't a goal that wasn't something I set out to do or not do. It was not part of my to do list. If it happened, it did, but as it turns out, it didn't. Not good or bad, that's just my journey. But yeah, people when you don't do the thing that they think you should do, Like literally, people say you,
But I don't get it. You're like, you're so normal, though, and you seem so It's like they're trying to figure out what's wrong with me or what's broken about me that I wouldn't be married, and you know, without trying to over explain yourself or without trying to rationalize or justify, I really don't get into it. But I'm amused how with things like that, how judgmental people can be without
even remotely thinking they're being judgmental. Like, I'm like, that is so fucking rude, And you don't even know you're being rude because you're you're essentially insulting how I live and how I've chosen to be.
I'm curious why it's so important to someone else that you're not married. Yeah, like, are you living next door to them and their cheating spouse? Is that what the concern is, I mean, what, how does it affect their life if you're not married?
Yeah?
So I think.
I was going to say, tif do you get any of that? Sorry?
Yeah, of course?
How old are you now? Forty two?
Right?
Forty two in May? But you keep putting me there far earlier?
What day in May? So we can all start saving first of May?
May day, May day, May day.
May day? Does it bother you or do you get it often? Or how do you deal with it?
It doesn't bother me. I just tell people I've got a lot of issues.
Yeah, do you tell people you've got three blokes on the go? I'm doing all right.
Sometimes I wish I could just say I was gay so that people would, you know, so blokes would just leave me alone.
Well, you're thirty percent dudes. So I don't know why I said that. I don't think that makes any difference at all.
Yeah, it's interesting, but I guess people are just a lot of people that have followed that same that path are around people that have all done this. You know, they've grown up, they've done the same thing. They've It's just an expectation. It's interesting and it's not something we think we're choosing. When we follow the herd, we just do what people are doing.
Yeah, And I think that's why I think it is. What's that.
I don't think people are doing things for their own intrinsic reasons.
I think they're doing them.
And I'm not saying in general a lot of people are doing I'm not saying if you're married, you didn't marry your spouse for intrinsic reasons.
But this.
Obsession with everybody doing the same thing that I do, Like, oh my god, are you married?
No?
Why aren't you married? Oh you're married? You have kids?
What?
No kids?
Why?
What's wrong? What's the matter? If you think about the.
Most fulfilling thing you've ever done in your life, yes, you want to bring other people into it, but you're not overly obsessed and preoccupied with who's doing exactly what I'm doing and who's not because you're doing your thing. So I wonder how much confidence we have in the things we do if we insist that everybody's got to be exactly like us.
Yeah. I actually you think that most people like I personally think this is not a broad thing. But for me, most of the things that I do that work for me I would not recommend for other people because I think for a lot of people the stuff that I do, they wouldn't like, they wouldn't enjoy it, they wouldn't be
living their best life. It wouldn't work for them because they're not like me, not better, not worse, you know, just not me different, And so the shit that works for me, especially by the time you get to my age, when you've lived by yourself for decades and decades and decades, right, well, you just you have a certain operating system and you know what works. And looking through someone else's lens at your behavior, they could go, you're weird, and that doesn't
bother me. I would say, by your standards, I'm weird and I get it that and you know, and by my standards, you might be weird, and it's all good. And we don't all need to as you were inferring mate will need to be on the same team or doing the same thing. But I think like ultimately, this idea that there is a single best way to do pretty much anything is a pretty flawed. You know, there's the best way to eat, No, there's not. There's the best way to have a relationship. Nope, there isn't there's
the best way to build a business. Nope, there are a million great ways to do a million different things right, and it's trying to find out what is the optimal protocol for that individual based on a myriad of variables. It's not about you want to get to be well. The way that you get to be is these three steps. But I think that this is the idea that we get sold a lot in our culture is that there are you know, that there is a best diet, that there is a best business model, that there is a
best podcast, whatever, there's the best podcast in the world. No, it's not. But some people, some people love this show. Some people listen for four minutes and go, this is fucking bullsh I don't blame them, you know, it's like but for some people it's inspirational, it resonates, it's a bit amusing, and for those people it is it literally is that experience, and for other people it's not. So we're not trying to be all things for all people.
And we realize that, you know, there is no I guess, universal process that fits or serves every person.
What the tyranny of homogeny?
Why do you think people because the Comedy's Festival's on on what I'm doing a lot of watching reels and stuff. Why do you think people get so angry and expressive
when they don't find a comedian funny? Like, there's been a few clips of Dave Hughes on different things lately, and I always look the comments and so many people are like, he's not even funny, he's not even funny, but they're so angry about it, And I'm like, well, he makes his money from his humor, and people are buying tickets to see him, and people are laughing at him, and people are enjoying what he does.
So why are you so.
Angry that someone you don't find funny is having success? And why do you want to bring them down?
That's a good question. That's a good question. I think I love that the truth. The truth is, it's like, well, he's not funny for me. Yeah, to me, Comma, he's not funny, But you don't speak on behalf of everyone, So shut the fuck up. Just preface everything you're going to say with in my opinion, and maybe we'll listen.
Yeah, there's a type of person that I see emerging more frequently, and to me, I think it's because things.
Are disruptive and what we're talking about with lack.
Of predictability, you have a harder time grappling with adversity. I mean, to me, I'm thinking, one, if I got to see a comedian and I reserve the night out paid money and comedians not funny, all right, that sucks because I could have grabbed the.
Curry instead and just like stay at home.
But there's if I'm watching a YouTube video, it's a very different story is and I what I'm seeing is that comedian is not funny. It's almost like they don't deserve their success. I deserve success because I'm a real person, working a real job, making a real contribution. Yeah, because like what the fucking thought leaders and comedians ever contributed to society?
Like get over yourself.
And it's like and if I'm not living my dream doing real work, why should somebody who is an entertainer who just tells jokes for a living, why should they have.
All that success?
And it's like, wow, what is that contributing to your life or anybody else's Because this person's living their dream, right, this person's contributing. I think comedians are people who turn a mirror and have us look at ourselves as individuals and society, and they frame it through humor in a way where it's palatable, where I don't automatically reject it, because there's a common, undeniable truth there, which is what makes it funny.
So I think comedians are one of the most valuable people in society.
Not saying they are, I'm just saying from my perspective, that's how I see it.
I wonder I wonder that, like, why would that because it's the question you asked. I think that all the time.
Why are you so angry about you not finding someone funny?
What do you think is because you know, if these people jump on and bag Dive Hughes for example, like tiff was, by the way, I love Dive Hughes. I know him quite well. I've trained him a dozen times and you know we've done shows with him, and he is a rock solid human. May not find him funny or you may either way. That's okay. But obviously when someone jumps in this little online platform and they're just screaming fucking venom and whatever, you're like, okay, but we
know that it's not going to change anything. It's not like anyone's going to change what they're doing because you're saying this, right, I wonder what the motivation is. And I think, like, I think of all the things that you could be doing today with your time and your potential and your brain and your ability to type and to pay attention to things. Of all the things that you could do, this is what you're choosing to do
to write this horrible, hurtful you know. And it's not even I mean, it's just an opinion of a person. It's not like we're even talking about some global issue. Like what's the reason for that? Do people just want attention or validation? What do they want? Bobby?
No, But you're right, I should probably stop doing that. He did so much time spew and vanom on the internet.
Yeah, you should maybe wind back on that. Like, there's a dude out the moment. I'm not going to say his name, but he's been on a lot of podcasts I've listened to, and I find him he seems like a really nice guy, really likable, bit lovable, bit of a lad. But I find his stand up unfunny, which
is why I'm not going to say his name. But he's got a new thing out at the moment, and I wish he was funny, And I'm sure people do find him funny, but I look at him, you know, when you really want someone to be good, but to you, they're not hits like that. For me, I want this guy to be funny because he's a good guy and I like him, and he's got some good stories. But when he walks out on stage and does stand up
to me, it's completely unfunny. But I would never write that, or I would never And at the same time, I don't like. I literally look at it and I go, I don't know how you get ten thousand people in a room. I don't know how he does it. But there's no jealousy and no resentment. It's like, I'm like, you're fucking amazing. You're amazing that you've got this ability to do this, you know. But that's the thing, is like someone else would look at him and go, no, he's a comedic genius. You don't get it.
What about how much I used to dislike for no reason, Jimmy Carr. Now I can't get enough of him. I binge him all the time. He's very full on, very controversial, at times.
But now he's one of my favorites.
Yeah.
Wow, and only because I listened to his podcast on Dirivis Ceo heard him as a human went oh, you're very smart and very good.
Well that's the thing I love about him too, is that. And while he can be fucking a lot politically incorrect as anything, but yeah, he's to me anyway, he's super intelligent and he thinks things through, and he he's not a sheep. He's not living in the fucking the ideological echo chimber at all. He's got his own little space and if people like it or don't like it, he's okay with that.
Yeah.
I mean, you make a living observing the world and extracting insights and delivering it in the way that's humorous. You have to be highly intelligent. What I love about Jimmy kar is and I like his comedy a lot, but a lot of times I'm sure the two of you have done the same thing. Where I'm not watching someone presents something, I'm studying them. His delivery, his timing
is exquisite. Like if you had if you had a script and you memorized everything that Jimmy Krr said in one of his shows and you got up in front of a room of people and you said the same exact thing.
One you're plagiarizing. Shame on you, two.
It would be it wouldn't be funny at all because you wouldn't have his cadence, you wouldn't have his rhythm and timing. It's just so damn precise and his brain's working that quick. Because one of my favorite things about Jimmy Carr is he'll rock up and probably know exactly what he's going to say, he's rehearsed at a hundred times, but then he'll open up the audience to heckle him. He has no idea what's coming, but he has certain
patterns of thought. It's almost like a chess master. It's like they don't think fifty steps ahead of the average person. They just recognize patterns easily. So he's gonna have a comeback and it's going to be on point nine out of ten times. To me, Wow, that's even more impressive to me.
And then you get some jourius in the audience who thinks he's gonna fucking decimate Jimmy Carr, who's a tenth then verbal black belt. It's like, yeah, good luck, Champ, you fucking good luck, good luck. Do your best, but do that I mean for hecklers. Yeah, it's kind of stupid, isn't it. But in that environment, like do they really think?
Or is that just part of the fun because he's opened up to the audience like, you do your worst and we're all going to have fun.
And I have to laugh at your expense a little bit. But no, how I'm done.
Yeah. Look, I think people who can do comedy and you know, recognized as being very funny. Ah, yeah, it's a different people. Don't people underestimate what kind of intelligence that takes and situational awareness and social intelligence and emotional intelligence and timing and skill and memory, you know, to stand up there and make ten thousand people laugh. That is that. I'm jealous of comics because I would like
to be, But I'm too terrified. If you said you've got to talk, You've got to do a corporate speech to three thousand people, I'm like, no worries. If they said you've got to do three minutes of stand up to five people, I'm not showing up. I'm too scared.
I've done it. It is brutal how'd you go horribly? Because the very first time I did stand up, I did it a few times, and the very first time I did stand up, I got what I thought now in retrospect, I didn't realize that then it was the worst possible response because people were laughing. I mean, they weren't like laughing, like if there was a real comedian up there, but for someone who was doing an open
mic night. There were quite a few juggles within the five minutes, and I got this thought in my head, Oh, I could do this, and then you come out on thet I'm the next big thing. No, I'm not that delusional, but I was like, I could do open mic night just for a laugh, and if I work on it, I'll get much better. And I could carry this in
into my day job. And then you get up a couple of more times, and what happens in those evenings with those audiences is what should have happened the first time, where man, you're.
It's just silence.
You bomb so bad and it hurts, it hurts you feel I don't care. I don't care how resilient you are, I don't care how thick skinned you are. It really hurts I remember the second time I got up at this show and you can't see anybody because it's like just lights and it's just blackness, but you see the front row.
The only response I got from the.
Audience was this old guy giving me the middle finger and running his finger across his throat, like saying something to the effect of get the fuck off the stage. And I was so grateful for that guy because that was the one person that was willing to engage with me.
He made me feel like I was alive.
I would in my fantasy, like other life, I would have liked to be a comedian.
The only problem is, like I'm not that funny.
I mean, I'm funny, but after you get over my physical appearance, that's only going to take me a minute or two.
So you gotta have material beyond that.
Stop it, stop it. It's our jomp to put you down. You stop that. This has been a hotchpotch of a conversation. This has been a fucking fruit salad, a verbal fruit salad. I'm not sure how we got where we got, but it's always good to catch up with both you, Bobby. How can people find you, listen to you, connect with you?
They can find me on the self ubantidote dot com. They could find me on Robert Capuccio dot com. They could find me on Tiff show. I'm there quite a bit. Haven't been in a while, haven't been invaded, to be.
Fair, have you been invited so much?
What?
When?
Oh?
This was last time. Okay, that's a fair point. So you can find.
Yeah, I love it when you two have a fight on my show about your shows, Jiff. We'll say goodbye for us three.
But thank you Tiff, thank you, thank you Tiff, Thank you. Craig