Hi, get a team. Welcome to another installment of the U Project. Craig Anthony Harper, Greg Patrick, Kevin John, Ferdinand Riley. Now, because I'm clearly a genius and a very experienced podcaster, Greg and I just did about ten minutes of absolute gold that I didn't record because clearly not a genius more to the fuckword end of the scale. So Greg, I apologize, Sorry, mate.
Look serious, I mean some of that stuff you discussed was I'd be going to Donald Trump and elt of Musk and say, how are you need to have halps on the team? That's how good?
Yeah, I mean we couldn't repeat that. You're never going to kick that. I'm sorry, listeners, that was gold. That was the gold that you never know. That's bullshit. It wasn't. It was just me banging on and we all banging on about the GP. We're not going to go there again because it's GP day in Melbourne, it's raining in Melbourne, it's it's a whole bunch of stuff in the thriving metropolis.
But where we were up to when I realized cleverly that I wasn't actually recording us is you were about to You're about to well, you were just starting to tell my listeners a little bit about you so that we can do a deep dive on Craig things and Greg things and human behavior and happiness and all the things that we want to open the door on today. So I'll shut the fuck up and you can restart that little monologue. Take two, Take take two and his Greg.
So I've spent you know, I started on fifty now spent twenty five odd years in corporate banking. So I started off at west Pax when I was sevent eighten it's a tower. I worked my way up there, moved another company for a little bit of time after that, stage, left that, and then moved into a consulting role in the project space through through ain Z for a number of years. So I've held a lot of senior positions running appro's the multimillion dollar projects teams are fifty twenty
five globally across the board. Yeah, so I've had a fair extensive experience in the corporate environment with running teams and delivering on results and projects initiatives and that kind of stuff. And there's there's the I suppose the other part of me is a bit like Clark Camp there's a there's a part of me that's the banker. Then I hop into a telephone booth and come out of Superman. The other part is the psychic part, the spiritual stuff. Right.
So so in my early twenties, wasn't necessarily happy with where the direction of life was going, and I started doing martial arts and meditation and found myself in a tarot course one night and ended up giving a reading to somebody and he just literally went white and said,
how would you get that? I had no idea what I was doing, but ended up basically then, you know, going to that place a better physics and consciousness and the nature of reality and you know who we are and which sort of goes into you know, I was brought up a Catholic and all that kind of stuff. And in twenty eleven I w on the TV show on Channel WAS seven called The One, which then crowned
me as Australia's most gifted psychic. Did that for twelve months, walked away from it, which we can talk about literally did it full time for twelve months and just not doing anymore, and then from their hypnotherapy and you know, all that kind of stuff. No of your causes, Craig,
and it's how we met. And now I just love the part where I'll be able to I hope people enjoy going to work like I hate, you know, I really want people to enjoy life, you know, because I you know, through the corporate side things, I see so many people going to work and they're just unhappy. I just don't like the environment. They don't like going there. They're stressed out, they're coming home. It's not a quality
of life they want to live. You know, those those businesses tend not to be able to have, you know, leadership qualities. A lot of people in those positions, they are insane. Your positions are good at doing something. It's usually outcome driving. I can deliver an outcome, but very horrible the people stuff, and that's not on them. It's like I think, was a ten percent of people and natural born leaders. The rest of us try and learn
how to do it. So so I've always been fascinated since the early twenty, you know, my early twenty is about how the human mind works. Like I'm like you, obsessed with the factors. How do we tick? Why do
we behave? The way do we do? Why is my life so shit, you know, and then try and combine the human side of things, the human psychology part with and the spiritual aspect of how you draw this in because you chose to experience this and this is part of what you've actually chosen assault to encounter and do that, so, you know, and then I love, you know, helping people just tapping into their intuition, Like that's a gift there that I think people very rarely harness, but they have
access to it. And when you look at most people like you, if you actually ask something about how did you make your most biggest decisions? He has there's data behind the decisions, but most people go the got call. I just felt found it just felt like it's like, well, how do you measure that? How do you teach that? How do you Yeah, well can you teach me that? It's like, no, you can't teach intuition because it's a
state of state of being, it's who you are. So so now I just I'm really passionate about leadership, improving workplaces, people's you know, individual happiness as well too, because it all starts with there. And then you know, being able to okay, yeah, that part.
So let's talk about intuition. I mean, I wrote a thing the other day about you know, like, what is it like? Intuition? It's like the stuff that you know without knowing how you know the stuff you know. It's like ship. You know that you've never been taught. And I've had a bunch of experience. You and I have had a lot of talks, right, So I'm I'm just going to say up front everyone, these are just two blokes talking about their experiences. We're not trying to convince
you of anything, steer you in a in direction. But I fucking love this stuff, right, I've been I'm a little bit of like an oxymoron as well, because on the one hand, on this guy doing a fucking PhD in science, and it's got an excise science degree, and it's very methodical and strategic, and how do we do better? Think better, create better? What's the process, what's the occasion? You know, it's all very methodical and framework driven and
all of that is good. However, over here, I'm just like fucking unicorn running around in a field waving my arms in the air, going hack and how good's this? You know? This other shit that doesn't in inverted commas make sense. So this thing that I've been thinking about a lot, I want to talk to you about, fuck so much stuff. I want to talk to you about
that now that we've opened the door. But there's this idea, Greg that we wheel out a lot, and this is the idea that, oh, this doesn't make sense, and then I go, doesn't make sense based on what and what we're really saying is I don't understand this based on what I understand, based on what I think is possible, based on what I think science is or logic, based on all that stuff, which is my frame of reference. This doesn't fit into that. So either one that's impossible,
Two makes no sense. Three it's bullshit. Right. And I've had so many experiences in my life, which, by the way, could they all be Like I've got to be my worst critic in this, right If you just think, oh, I know stuff and you don't, and I've got a gift and an insight and you don't, well you're a
fucking idiot and that's arrogance, right. So I've had a lot of experiences that to me seemed completely inexplicable and like I was getting informed or downloads or insights from someone, something somewhere, some intelligence that wasn't me, and that may or may not be true. I could have been creating that.
But the amount of times in my life where I've had an intuitive, instinctive, almost overwhelming feeling to do or not do something that in that moment saved me from something bad, like too many times, too many times, and
like one that I've shared once on this show. I think I used to work with I used to work with an organization working with addicts and alcoholics, and some of the people that I worked with were I used to go there one day a week and do like half a day and talk to them about you know, all the stuff I talk about. I didn't go and talk about addiction per se. And I wasn't a councilor, of course, But I was working with these boys and girls who are trying to get their shit together, get
their life back on track. But there was some interesting character, let's just say that, and some of them who have very colorful backgrounds, if not you know, presents. And one day I was walking down a corridor to the room, and at the end of the corridor was the room I was about to walk into, and I'd literally been there three years once a week, so it's out one hundred and fifty times or something, and this was let's just say this number. This is number one fifty one.
I'm just thinking about nothing in particular. I'm walking down I'm about to and about a meter before the door, I get almost like this electric shock, and I get this sense of dread and fear, and I just stop and I feel like I just feel this whatever, this awareness of be really careful today. I'm like, oh, I don't even know what that like. I haven't been in yet, I haven't seen anyone. And it's not like I got a briefing from the rest of the staff, right I just rocked up and I was going to do my
thing anyway. As out, I go into that room and there were a couple of really really interesting characters. I won't divulge too much, but it's fair to say that that insight actually was very, very valuable because I went in with a level of awareness and caution that I didn't normally take in. And if I had not had that, I would have got in trouble or I could have potentially been in danger because there were a couple of people in there that really wanted to fuck with me.
But because I knew that was coming, I was ready. Now. There was zero background to that. That's not like I had a phone call with someone the day before and they were saying, listen, when you come in tomorrow, we've got you know nothing. And I've had a form of
that a lot in my life. Now. The thing is when we look at these kinds of things and the stuff we're going to talk to you about, psychic abilities and you know, spiritual journeys and psychedelics and like a lot of the stuff that that doesn't make sense to us in the way that I explained before, through our window of understanding right it. I think it scares us, and so because it scares us, we tend to go not fuck that. Don't want to know, it's not real,
that's bullshit. Whereas I'm I still think what I think and know what I know in terms of science, although even with science, science is constantly getting shit wrong, as you and I discussed the other day over coffee. But I think also, and I'll shut up after this, that we we have this compulsion that we want to know, and if we can't know, then it must be garbage, rather than just saying, look, I don't know if there's a spiritual world. I don't know if this could happen
or not. I don't know even if there could be fucking aliens. I don't When people go absolutely not or absolutely are, well here's my thing, I don't know. That's my bit, I don't know. Maybe you know it.
Look it's strange because I remember, like after the TV show, Yeah, can you be surprised who I've read for you? These people are at the top of Australian government.
Just explain, just explain who I read for What does that mean for our audience?
So so basically doing psychic readings, so people come and see me about Okay, can you tell me what's happening around me right now? Can you give me chap into the field of consciousness and give me some advice on what I should do or what's coming my way or what's in the future. Well, I'm I, you know, prepare myself for whatever's meant to happen, right, So I would do you know future based psychic readings for people, And
it's it's it's again, it's it's on the outside. People will poop pole it because it's too woo woo kind of stuff. It's like, oh, that's all bullshit that they're calling me and saying, greet can I have a chat?
Like I've read for heads of banking internationally, I've read for government people, I've read for royalty right that the people I've read for you'd be going really it's like yeah, absolutely, I mean everyone know it's like celebrities and that kind of stuff, but I've read for heads of state.
Tell me how wow wow, all right, so tell me how that would work. I'm I'm the Prime Minister.
Of goes through a number of different channels first versus like this is full of shit, this is crap, and it's like I don't know, No, this is real. And it goes through Yeah, they don't contact you directly, it goes through backdoor channels and it's never ever to be ever talked about it or ever to be ever released. You sign NDAs and everything like that. There's a whole legal documentation behind it as well too, because they don't just pick up the front of ring you it's just
there is. You sign a legal contracts that you'll never ever talk about this to anybody.
Well, I'm glad you're talking to us about it, and soames.
Kind of stuff roll, you're never going to put it. I read for so and so and so and so right, it's and yeah, so it's. But it's funny because on the outside they will actually say, oh, this is all crap, but on the inside they're looking for you to be able to go, hey, can you teach me this because this stuff is really gold. But yes, but it's a perception based on the stuff. If you actually do this, you look like a bit of a bit of a lonitude.
I think. Also, one of the challenges in their space is, like with any space, I mean, you go with something as pedestrian as say, personal trainers, yeah my background. I mean they're amazing trainers and completely fucking terrible trainers. Yeah right. There are people who have got great knowledge, great skill, great ethics, great value, Like they're connected with their clients, they know what's going on, and they provide an incredible thing. And then other people who are the opposite of that.
So I guess that's true in because I mean, I think one of the challenges correct me if I'm wrong, but is that you know, there are people who work in that space who are full of shit in charlottoas.
Trouble for saying this, but most ninety percent of full of shit right, And that's industry as well too, Like you could you could remember there's there was this is years ago, hay House door in Virtue. You know, of course you could rock up on a Friday, have no psychic ability, come out on the Monday with a certificate cost you fifteen hundred dollars, and you've got to have thing to say. I can go and read for people now, Like,
that's just that's just dangerous. That's that's unethical on that part to be able to do that and say after three days of training, you can go out now and actually start screwing with people's lives. No, like I train, I think I spent. I didn't do my first read until I had seven years of training under my belt. My mentor wouldn't let me. She's like, you're not going
anywhere near people, you're not ready. That's why I did that, you know, That's why I was so sought after, because I had the human psychology part behind me, So I know how people operate, I know their motivations, I know why they're so that's why that's why people saw it after me is like you've got and then the corporate
banking background. Look, I was a normal to do that, played football, right, and people still connect with that rather than have this kind of thing, Well they're just every fair like this guy is a banker, yeah, plays football, who has this ability to see stuff that most people can't how much?
How much of I mean, So let's say you're tapped into some spiritual pathway or insight that a lot of people generally aren't. So there's that that's going on. But also, I guess what else is going on is your ability just to read people from a sociological you know, because you can see I mean, you don't need to have a spiritual gift to go old mates shitting himself or you know, I think this lady is lying her ass
off because there are all these tells. I mean, So I guess it's almost a convergence of like this spiritual kind of insight together with your general awareness of human behavior.
Yeah, and that's the asset like it you are, right, There's that's where most of the psychics go wrong. You can read people. You can sit down and look across as someone, you can actually pretty much read you know, some of the cues are actually giving out if you're a smart cookie and you understand this stuff. But where the real talent lies. You combine that all that stuff together and it's a very unique gift. And that and that in itself that in the business world, the corporate world,
the leadership world, you are in the one percent. Like you learn this, you're getting head hunted the next day and people will come after you because that's how this that's how good you know, combining these these these talents is needed today.
What were the pros and cons of sitting with very high profile, famous and maybe even infamous who knows people like and reading masks? The masks what does that mean?
Well, it just what they're presenting like that, it's there, they're present. Most of them are lonely. Most of them have got more stress you can poke a stick at. Most of them are unhappy, most of them can't relax. Most of them are looking for someone who's trying to
take over what they're trying to get. Very few people could show a part of themselves that was comfortable, and there was always this thing I need to get more and have more is drive externally to try and control things that they were control freaks, a lot of them.
Wow.
And you know too, And you know to be in a space where you sit there and you can see in someone's secret life, the part that they don't tell anybody, not have their partners, Like, that's a gift. That's a place that I respect. I take a lot of respect with that. And sit there and come out, I've seen a part of you don't show to anybody else. And my thing is like I want I want people to be happy, you know, I want them to heal beyond
this because I've been there. Like when I stayed your course years ago, my marriage was about to break down. Like if I hadn't done your course, I wouldn't I wouldn't be together. Wow, that's how important this stuff is.
Well now, by the way, everyone that's got nothing to do with me, that's got everything to do with Greg doing whatever Greg needed to do and hear and what he needed to hear. But what what did you need to hear? And what did you need? What came out of that for you? That was so transformational?
You you listened, you connected, You didn't blame, you didn't judge, You saw the real person, not the what he was trying to just overcome. I remember there was a week two or week three it came out that I had been on the TV show and stuff like that, and I think he kind of saw that I had carnage from that as well too, so and then over the top of it, it was really understanding how people perceived
the world of perceptions, how the mind works. Like you know, it's you tell me, Craig, where do you sit in the body? Where is you? Where is Craig inside the body? For me, yeah, that was one of the questions you asked me originally, is like tell me where are you? Where are you in the body.
It's like I'm not yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I learned so much about why I always behave in the way I did, but in a very very simple terms. Right, there's so much stuff out that's complicated. It's like, just do this. It's as simple as it is. Dumb it down.
Yeah. I think also, if you can listeners, if you can find a person that is coming this sounds up, fuck it? Why do I always do that? I'm just going to say it. If you can find someone that is coming from a place of love, not coming from a place of strategy or self service, but coming from a place of I just want you to be the best you, right, and what that that doesn't have anything to do with me. It's like, there's no I don't need anything out of this. I don't want anything out
of this. And it turns out that you and I get on well and we become friends, which is a bonus, but that was not a plan, right, And I think also to be able to you know, the beauty about people that genuinely only want the best for you is that you can trust them. And we don't know who we can trust generally, because there will be a lot of people who present themselves as friends who aren't. And this is not being negative. This is just a fucking
fundamental of life. You probably all realize that now that not not all sheep that are dressed up as sheep a fucking sheep, you know. So the ability to be able to or I guess, the freedom to be able to just trust a person who goes listen, Greg, I can see you in a way that you can't see you, just like you can see Craig the way that I can't see me. And so I want to go, Greg, what are you seeing? And you want to go, Craig,
what are you seeing? And it's like and as soon as we which is easier said than done, but lose the ego and lose the you know. And when there's no judgment in any of this, there's just awareness and love, it's like, oh fuck this is. This is two men having an experience and a connection that two men don't often have. I fucking this is. I want this more.
Yeah, but yeah, there's also as men, we're not driven to have conversations like this, you know, we're driven by a testosterone with in itself. Is a is a hormone that fixes and finds solutions? Yes, is the one that actually gives us the ability to sit there and listen, to learn and connect. Right. So, you know, most men are fighting against their biology. That's why most therapy for
men fails. Most of it does because they to the testosterone side of you know, the hormones wants to find a solution to fix it straight away, rather than just go into the talking and the empathy. This is why you know, in relationship council, you've got to meet people halfway and understand women talk like this, men talk like this. This is why most communication goes backwards in relationship because they understand understand hormones.
Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, and that that intersection of thoughts and feelings and biochemistry and hormones, and then you throw in fear and anxiety and beliefs and fucking programming and conditioning and childhood trauma and oh it's a the ship show. Yeah, it's a shit festive human experience.
But to really to answer your question, there was it was care. There was real, genuine care about me, and you know, you saw beyond what I was presenting, Yes, like you saw the real person underneath there that that I hope someone actually saw one day. Yeah, yeah, which is a talent.
Yeah, well, thank you. I think Also, you know, like a lot of the high ish profile people that I've either trained or coached or counseled or spoken with, you know, I kind of eventually go to them, you know, all that famous stuff like without being retud by the way, well done, it's amazing, But I don't give a fuck about that, and they're like, it's almost like they're good.
I don't want to talk to the persona. I just want to know you and whether or not you're an actor on the telly or whether or not you're driving a Bobcat and fucking, you know, making holes on a construction site. I really don't give a fuck. People say that, but I don't give a fuck.
I can tell you now, the more money you have a lot of people, the more problems they have. I know many many more depressed and drugged up entrepreneurs are over millions of dollars versus Bobcat drive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that's not say one causes the other, but yes, that and we've kind of, you know, we've opened that door quite a few times here, but that I think that being just coming back a little mini circle to where we're talking about how open like when you and I first met, and I could, you know, see in you stuff that maybe other people didn't see with you, and maybe in a way you felt like I'm being seen for the first time or maybe for the first time in a long time, where this guy
sees me, not the show or the brand or the persona, but.
That the post.
Yeah, I've probably spoken twenty times in six years about this, so I'll be brief on it, but you've heard me talk.
I think I talk about public you and personal you and private you and secret you, and you know, public you is this you know, like you in the shopping center, yeah you on Instagram whatever, Right, Personal you is the guy that people might meet in the cafe where you have a little bit of a deeper chat and it's a little bit less formal, and you might be a little bit more vulnerable and revealing, and you know, some
kind of peripheral friends. And then private you is really the you that only maybe a few people in the world get to meet, you know, maybe close friends of course, your partner. And then secret you is the person that only you know. And I really try, I really try to present private me to the world, and not for the sake of anything other than I think if I can teach the things and share the thoughts and ideas and strategies that I didn't invent. By the way, I'm
just the con I say, I'm not the wisdom. I'm the conduit, Like I'm the conduit to the wisdom, to the information to the a When I'm not the awareness,
I'm just fucking pointing you towards it. Right, But if in the middle of that I can be as vulnerable as is appropriate, we don't need to everyone does need to know everything, of course, but on top of the wisdom and insight and strategy and revelation that you and I might share in our jobs which didn't come from us, just through us, if on top of that, you can be a person that people go, ah that, oh, he's so not what I thought he might be or she might be, you know. And which is not to say
that I don't fuck up. I fuck up regularly. But even with that, I like to tell people when I did something fucking egotistical or selfish or stupid or which you know, seven times a day. But I think that combination of you know, allowing yourself to be vulnerable with people that might not normally expect it, like you and me, right, two blokes and we didn't know each other well, and most blokes and I'm not saying Aunt Gregan Craig Grave, but that most blokes aren't opening that door anytime soon.
This is the thing, like two dudes and you know, all just say that's without being a bit wiky sort of alpha malesh kind of stuff like we've got to shit together talking about this stuff like it's really cool, Like he's really really really cool talking about you know, human behavior, spiritualism, you know, nature of reality, consciousness.
It's so cool, yeah, yeah, and so good to be able to think that. You know, I love people listening to chats like this that don't normally listen to chats like this, you know, just because you're like, oh, what even is that?
Now.
I'm not saying anyone needs to take any kind of action or do any kind of thing, but sometimes you think, like, if I was listening to this and I was probably you know, if I was a bit stuck maybe, which I know some listeners are a bit stuck or a bit you know, things are okay, but things are not brilliant, and they're maybe doing things that don't work, but they keep doing those things that don't work. Sometimes you go, fuck, what else is there? Maybe I need to open another door,
Maybe I need to have another conversation. Maybe what I understand is just you know, a drop of water in an ocean of what there is to know, you know, maybe, and maybe what I think is all of what there is to know is hardly anything you know, and being you know, without being ridiculously vulnerable or stupid or putting yourself at risk, but just you know, opening these doors
that might be expansive. Where I grew up in a you know, like we've spoken about this a lot, but I grew up in a very you know, constrictive framework and ideology. And I grew up in what I call a thought cult, where you have to think this way. In our thought cult happened to be religious, but it could have been anything, could have been any kind of group. Right. But then, and then what happens is when you grow up in this cult, that cult, that cult, that cult.
And we've all been in cults. We don't think we have, but we've all been in uh, you know, either spiritual, religious, cultural, sociological, sporting, professional, corporate, like they're all cults in that's worst and controlled and manipulated to think a certain way and be a certain way. That's the price of membership. And then when one day you get a bit, you know, you put on your big boy pants or your big girl pants and you go, I don't know, I don't think that, what about this?
What about what about I don't agree? Oh god, what about even better? I don't know? And it's okay that I don't know.
The problem is that most most people are driven from a place of belonging and acceptance. So opening up these doors is quite a confrontational thing sometimes because you can't unsee what you see now. Once you're tap into this place, you can't undersee it. And sometimes for some people it's better to stay in the matrix, so to speak, and actually open up the door. And that again, because it takes a lot of It takes one hundred percent accountability
for your life. You can no longer be a victim of life or blame other people or you know, circumstances of dictating to me and my behavior and all that kind of stuff. It is a radical shift one eighty in the way that you actually experience life in itself.
And I feel like it's it's getting harder and harder. Well for me, it's getting harder to talk about taking absolute ownership of your choices and your behaviors and your outcomes, because when you talk about to me, that's just something very logical and practical, and you know, it's like, well, you know, like, for example, generally, when my life's gone shit or part of it's gone shit, at the very least I had something to do with it, you know. Most of the time, like when I was out of shape.
That was all me. You know. When business went good or bad, that was me. A few other variables, but mostly me, because I was the captain of the ship. When a relationship went great or shit, that was at least fifty percent me, you know. And I just think that that without self loathing and without you know, throwing hate at anyone else, just being able to say, look where I am, Some of that's me, some of that's not me. There are extraneous variables that I can't control,
that's okay. But in terms of where I am and who I want to be and how I want to be moving forward. One what's working and not working on planet me? And two what's in my control? What's in what's not in my control? As Donald Trump is, the government is the genetics I was born with. Is what happened last week? What that person thinks, what what the
you know? All that shit's not But what I can do is despite all that other shit, I can ask better questions, do better things, create better outcomes, be brave, be resilient by choice.
Well, and this is the power of the work that you know people like you when I do. Is that we talked about this break of the day about the twelve steps to enlightenment. You know you are here and iditate these twelve steps to get to a version of you sometime in the future that when you get there, that you will be happy in that place. It's never going to happen no ever. And by the right questioning,
you can actually reveal to people their true self. Like people say, well, how do you do this, It's like, well, let's just picture a lamp like and a lamp shade.
Like.
All I'm doing is removing the lamp shade. The light was already turned on, was already there. I'm just taking the lamp shade off. Yes, and then from that point of you are the light. You then take action from that place. But too many people are upsetsed. We'll give me a process, give me a system, give me a tool, give me something to do to get to somewhere, and that's then created. You were creating more trauma on that stage because you're just going round and around the circle,
because you're always externalizing it. Again, then you're always saying that, you know, I need to become someone because right who I am right now is not good enough. And we'll actually you know where you are right now might be perfect, but where you're.
At, Yes, and what about the story that we have greg that when I have this and earn that, known that and look like that and build that and get that, then I'll be good.
How many people do you know when they get there there it doesn't feel anything.
Everyone everyone like, I've said this before, but how many people do you think in my life I've gotten not I've gotten working with me, they have gotten themselves in great shape. I mean fucking thousands of people that came to me. Now. The one thing that everybody has in common when they come see me is they want to change.
Nobody goes, here's a thousand bucks. I want to look the same or be the same, right or whatever it is is not but you know, and then so they're at the start line and we go, okay, why are you here? What do you want to do? What do you want to change? What's working? Telling about your food, telling me about your exercise, telling me about your lifestyle? Cool, what are your goals? And then we get clear on that and we go, right now, let's create a plan
around those goals. And then we get there and they never say, oh, I'm good now, thanks, see you mate, Right, because it's like it's never you know, there's a level of satisfaction, but that is generally short lived. And this was the same with me because I was very externally focused,
I was very fearful, I was very insecure. I got my sense of self and self worth and validation through what people thought of my body because I was the fat kid who got fucking shit canned, and then I was the fit, lean, strong, athletic kid who got lots of approval. So the lesson for me was, oh wow, things are a lot better when I look like this. Now imagine if I could look like this plus twenty percent, life will be heaven, you know. And then so you'd
learn these bad lessons understandably. Also, by the way, just take a look on Instagram or Facebook or any of those TikTok Like, if you're young and beautiful, you're getting rewarded in a way, but that sets you up for pain over the long term because you know the dose that used to give you that great feeling, and the dose was one hundred likes, Well, now you need a thousand likes to get the same response. Now you need
five thousand. Now you're getting ten thousand, and you're fucking miserable because you've desensitized, you don putman in response, right, and now you're never happy, and now you've got an eating disorder on now you've got some OCD issue or now And yes, I know that's also genetic, but we just open this door wider and wider where we try and resolve internal issues with external stuff.
Yeah, and that internal drivers never solved, right, So it's this hungry dragon that needs to be fed all the time. And the funny thing is that people get addicted to it. They get addicted to the insecurity version. People talk about tell your story, Tell your story. I know a coach here, you know, Australia, and she's got a pretty she's a very very good coach. Every time she gets on stage, she talks about this version of her, right, she always
talks about it. Now it's so intertwined into her story that she can never heal from it, right because it's driving her success right without the story? And who is she rather than just letting her, let's say, her skills and success stories speak for themselves, is to keep driving the other story?
And so, did do you think that in some ways some people need to kind of keep fanning the flames of that identity.
Completely in that space, that she'll never be happy either, like she's constantly driving that yeah, incredibly successful coach in the millions of dollars per year space. Yes, incredibly credibly driven, but incredibly unhappy. Can't hold a relationship down.
All right, let's put the handbrake on and let's high five each other and let's do a left turn. Release the handbrake. I want to talk about. So I hadn't seen you for a long time, probably more than a year, right, I don't.
Know, probably twelbot's Yeah, yeah, and I saw you.
We've texted, we've texted. I mean, we stay in much, right, but we see a fair bit of each other, and you know, now reconnected and we have to anyway, so be as vulnerable as you want, or you know, I feel like you're going to be vulnerable. But so the other day you and I sat down and straight away before we'd really chatted, and I didn't tell you this. I knew that you were different. You didn't go I'm different.
You didn't I'm like Greek's different, and you know, so that intuition, that awareness, and it's like you like you sat down I went, oh, some shit's happened. I wonder what the shit is? You know, It's like we were twelve seconds in. I'm like, Greek's different. So there's that, and I knew that straight away. I didn't know what the difference was. But you, like, I looked at you and you were okay. So I'm going to tell you
what I saw. And you and I haven't spoken about this, so I could be completely wrong, but firstly, you seemed happier than maybe I've ever seen you. Not a life without problems or challenges, but you just seemed in yourself happier. You seemed compared to a version of you that I had known, lighter and like less heaviness, and like perhaps more clarity and like almost this is the word that comes to mind, like relieved of something. Right, That's all. That's what I got from you. And I went how
are you? And you basically went, I'm fucking great. And it wasn't like a pretend I'm great. Yeah, it's like, no, I'm great now, not to say everything's going great, because everything isn't going great, and in fact, there are challenges. And I I just spoke to your beautiful wife and nessa before we start. And she's got a few challenges that you may or may not want to talk about, but she's very brave and dealing with some hard ship. And you as a family and her and you two
as a couple. And you said when we first met, things were, you know, on the rocks a little bit. But you said something like, and I'll shut up after this and you take up. The last three years have been the hardest of my life and the best of my life something like that.
Yeah, it was literally to the edge and looking over the edge.
Of the abyss And what took you to the edge?
One was trying to redefine my business. I've been trying to get rid of this whole psychic stuff for a long time. It's trying to get through that and restart, you know, the leadership business, and that that's been a hard slog because I've said, people saw see you as a certain thing. So's that's been difficult. Dropped sixty grand on the marketing agency with not one leads. That was
an interesting stop experience in itself. But on top of all that, as you mentioned before, like unless I say Verdigo, like really bad Verdigo for you know, for three years three years plus were a point where she can't get out of bed. And if anyone's had vertigo, it's not like you can just watch Netflix. Yes, like you're you're literally can't do anything, and the whole room is spinning
around and spinning around and spinning around. And it's is a horrible, horrible experience because it's you just want it to stop and it doesn't. And then you there's medication you can take, and that that doesn't help. Sometimes we go on some really bad antipsychotics which then has other effects as well too. It's it's a complete ship show. And so you've got that where you know your wife's can only just lie in bed. I will not lie but sit up in bed. And they're not sleeping either
because you're not sleeping. And then I've got a business to run. We've got three young children, so you've got that schooling, sports parties. And then you've got to also understand that you've got to maintain some kind of you know, you've got to maintain it together for your kids. You can't let you you can't let your kids see this
is breaking every part of you. And to see your partner in such a place breaks your heart as well too, because she is everything to me, like she is my life and so on my kids, and to see you go through that, it was it's a horrible experience. And you know, there are times there where it got really really really bad, like you know, I want to end at all, just because it just to make the vertigo stop. And that was two or three times. We're just like, we're not doing this, We're not doing this, and.
Can I interrupt? Just did you that I don't want to be here? Did you and her chat about that?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, because I got that bad that, you know, how do you make a stop? And then on top of it, it's like, well, I'm having no value to the family. Everyone's I'm just I'm just I'm here and I'm dragging everybody down. And you know, the kids are seeing a certain thing with mums in bed and it's not She has to be like it can't function. You
literally can't do anything. Having a shower is literally that's a that's a task in itself, right, Yeah, And you know, the new neurologists and all that kind of stuff don't really have much of an idea how to fix it. Trying multiple different things to try, and you know, diets, hormones,
different treatments. We've been that many different diets, different experts that many different hormonial people, and not having an answer is probably one of the worst things as well too, Like if you've got if you've got something, and you've got an answer, and go do this and you'll get better. You're with that. But they sit there and have no answer and try just trying things to see if they work was literally, you know, just horrible. So so it
was stressful beyond all imagination. And then you usually got three kids there you're going to maintain that focus for and that you're going to maintain a happy household. And I was well, I said, the other days, I found parts of myself I never knew existed. Like we went to the darkest of darker places, and we've come through in a way that I am extremely proud of, extremely proud of the people that we are and who we are,
and we're not we're not perfect. We still screw things up and we still have our days and look like we spoke to it for she's so much better, so much better, Yes, But it took us to go to some places that were quite dark and deal with some shit as well too about our own behaviors, our own past, because the Verdica was also love it someone's stress related as well too, So so there's a multity of different things we actually did, but the connection we've got through
that experience is unbreakable now, like we people these days walk at the first side of any kind of difficulty in the relationship, like we went and looked over the edge and came back, and I'm so proud of that, But that wouldn't have been possible without understanding some of the stuff that I've learned, like together.
Tell me in relation to that, you know it is. It's funny too because I think people, some people, I should say, don't understand how completely sold destroying and debilitating Bertiego can be. Because even with and we don't wish cancer on anyone in cancer is horrible, but at least with that you go, well, this is the treatment protocol. We're doing this and you know, which is still it's obvious a horrible, terrible disease, but at least you know, and it's.
Like and you can function as well, Like you sit there, you can put on Netflix and have you chemotherapy, right, yeah, you can't do any of that, stopping it to go. There's not a functioning at all at.
All, and probably a bad example everyone. I apologize, but on the probably but her mum's had cancer three times and she's still here, God bless her. But I think on top of that, like you said, when you go, okay, so there's this problem, and you talk to a range of different experts, you know, and they're all kind of experts in their field, and no one really knows, and when they go, well, we'll see how I mean, and that's not their fault, you know, but it's like essentially
educated guessing, and then well that didn't work. We'll try that didn't work either, And even you know, three years down the track now, and I spoke with her just before we started recording, and like you said, I was good this morning and then I went out and now I'm a bit ship. I've got verdigo again. But you know, it's not as bad as it was, but it's still still very debilitating and limiting in that you know when it you know, when it takes over, well, you don't have a lot of say.
Yeah, yeah. The other day is like I sort of just put this down. I went, Okay, right, I'm in this situation and I've drawn this into into my existence for a reason. This is where we go spiritual woo woo. Soide of the world is that I'm ready. That's why am I creating this experience? Why is but there's the creating this experience for me? Why is she sacrificing this aspect of herself for my life? What is she doing? And I went, let's see how how hard you can step up?
Mm hmm.
Let's see what kind of man you could be. Now, let's give you the hardest thing I'll ever ever encounter and see how you how you deal with it.
So when your your wife is essentially and the person you love most in the world is kind of in a way not operational, she can't really do anything for herself. I mean that respectfully. And also thinking about if I can just say it openly suicide, right, which obviously she doesn't want and you don't want, right, I mean that,
it doesn't get much darker than those two variables. Right, How how do you And then like you said, three kids and we've got school, and we've got food, and then we've also you know, emotional and psychological needs for those kids too, and getting everyone showered, ready for bed, and all of the myriad and then you're going to go make some money, Greg, because you know, the fucking the hell. Sometimes I think my life's hard, which it never is, by the way, but I'll just think about you.
What did you learn about you? And what did you hold on to? And what did you let go of? If those questions?
I am so grateful that I actually invested in myself all days years ago. That's probably the first thing. I am so lucky, and I'm so grateful that I come across some very very cool people and I heavily invested, not like two hundred bucks like this, are the hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last twenty eighth years. There's a really key programs about human behavior. I'm one so grateful for that that I actually did that. Two would I learn that by myself I can overcome anything.
And the most important thing to me in my life is my family, m Above everything else. I will die for that. M Wow. And what did I let go of? Probably a number of masks keep talking, probably the you know the the like I'm a pretty look you know me I'm pretty guarded. I don't show a lot. I'm I'm I kick to myself and I'm not one to sort of jump from jump on Instagram and look at me,
Look how good I am. And you know, here's my breakfast, and here's my six pack, and you know, here's here's my whatever lifestyle and here's my business class trip to wherever I'm going. Because I need to show you that stuff. I think I just became, you know, generally centered and happy and content. In the moment of sheer shitness, I was in the middle of complete darkness and I was completely okay.
Good, I groover. As you probably figured it out by now, But this chap with Greg I went way longer than I thought it was going to. I really enjoyed it. I enjoy most of the chats, but I really enjoyed this chat. I hope you're enjoying it too. I think it gets better in the second half. I'll be back tomorrow. Will be back tomorrow with part two. See then,