Doctor Lilly and welcome back to the Youth Project.
Thanks for having me, Craig.
As your day going. It's Friday? Are you stumbling towards the end of the week.
Oh, it's actually been a really hectic day, more than usual. Normally my Fridays are less hectic, but my husband's been out of town for like a week and a half, so I've been taxiing constantly and just had more things on over the last week and a half than I normally would. So yeah, I'm looking forward to the end of today, except for this part, because this part's fun.
Well that's good. That's good. Thanks for coming to have a chat with us. What before we get onto our topic at hand, what stresses you like in the middle of the business in Mayhem? Does that produce anxiety and stress or is it just like just it's I'm just busy and I don't hate it, but it's just boxes that's got to be ticked.
Yeah, I think that completely on my attitude on that day. Like sometimes I can, just like everybody, get overly stressed about the reality that I'm in and that just makes everything worse and that causes all kinds of other problems that really aren't necessary, like being touchy or short with my kids or like stuff like that, or like really like road rage. Ye wo wow, I'm very impatient on the road. That's probably the place that I have the most.
I don't know, like I'm I'm the least regulated, I think when I'm driving, probably yeah, And my kids make fun of me as well, which I'm glad they make fun of me, and they hopefully won't follow on my example, and I try to work on it. But it's like
my safe place to express an anger and annoyance. But like if I have a if I have a better attitude, which is like this is just the way it is, and you know, like I'm like, for instance, for the last week and a half, i know that it's up to me to kind of be in charge of everything, and then I'm going to need to work out dinner every night, and I'm going to have to pick up the kids from wherever they need to be picked up from and drop them off and that's all on me.
And if I have an acceptance about that, I don't feel as stressed. I feel like now I'm just doing what I need to do. So I think it just comes down to attitude, doesn't it.
Do you ever feel like a little bit Do you ever feel like people analyze you more closely because you're a psychologist and they expect that, rightly or wrongly, that you'd have less issues and you'd be more in control and more evolved, Like I'm not even you. And I feel like people pay a lot of attention to shit with me, especially if I'm out and I'm eeting and someone comes in. People are very interested in what I put in my math, which is hilarious.
That is interesting. Yeah, Oh, for sure. There are assumptions made. I think about me, and I think maybe anyone in mental health profession a lot. A lot of the common assumptions are, yeah, that you know, I'm in control and calm all the time. I get that a lot. Oh, you're so calm and you must be like that all and your children must really appreciate that about you, And I'm like, you don't meet my kids. You know, I'm not always calm. I'm like a human and I experienced
a whole range of emotions just like everybody else. I think the difference is that I'm less judgmental of myself.
Yeah, yeah, And I.
Think that that's The other thing that people often assume is that I'm constantly analyzing and judging them because that's their perception of what I do for a living. But that's not That's not what I do for a living. Yes, I actually judge people. I don't judge people like that's the whole point of being a psychologist is to understand people. So if anything, I'm less judgmental, not more. But I'm also again a human, So I have moments where I'm judgy, but no more or less I think than any other
person would be. But I have like maybe that extra layer of awareness and insight when I'm doing it. Mm So that I.
Used to have this conversation with with my trainers, and I know, well, it's not a very different job. It's not that different. So when you're a trainer, you know, like especially my guys and girls that the men and women that worked for me and I had over the years, I had five hundred of them, so a lot of trainers.
And my biggest center, which was up on the Highway in Brighton, I would have on the floor in a busy period we would have thirty trainers on the floor right, So thirty trainers each with A or two, and some of my busy trainers would do regularly fifty sessions a week, which is a lot of PT.
That's a lot.
And with the PT, apart from you know, lift this, run there, skip that, whatever stretch that there's all the physiology that's going on, but there's the psychology. And even though you know the trainers on the floor are not psychologists or counselors for the most part, they are kind of and not trying to play the role of one either. But the reality is that when you've been like I trained one lady five days a week for sixteen years, right, shout out to Pauline. Now, we had tens of thousands
of conversations. I don't know it's tens, but thousands of conversations because you can't only talk about dumb bells, barbells and biceps, right, So of course she'd talk about how she's feeling or how that thing went on the weekend, or her kid or her husband, or her sore back or her menopause or perimen pause or all. So you have a multitude of conversations. And this is true for most personal trainers. And I used to have this conversation
with them and I called it their shit threshold. You would probably call it the excellent threshold or performance threshold. But I basically ask them to think about and pay attention to how many sessions they could do per day with a client before it went to shit. In other words, how many sessions can you show up for a client or in your case, a patient and be fully present and be the absolute best version of you for that hour?
How many times can you repeat that through the day, Because if you're doing twelve sessions a day, you can't say, to number twelve, listen, I'm exhausted and tired and hungry, and you're my twelfth person. So you're going to get a three out of ten even paying ten out of ten fees.
Yeah, absolutely agree with you. I feel like it's an ethical issue, yes, and I do limit my sessions to an absolute maximum of six per day. Probably five would be maybe the best number, but six. I feel like I'm still doing good work if I do six. But if I was to do beyond that, I don't think that anyone's going to benefit as much, you know, and yeah I do. I do know other people in my field who see more people than that, and that's often
financially motivated. But I don't think it's particularly ethical. And if I was seeing someone I would I would, you know, if I'm the second or the one hundred percent?
Yeah, yes, I think I think that just having that awareness around how much of whatever it is, by the way it like with me, it could be study like, how long can I read this paper? And I'm reading this paper and I'm absorbing as much as I can. Well, the answer is not two hours. Yeah, the answer for me used to be three minutes, and then it prepped up to five, and then it crept up, you know, and now it's I don't know, five years down the track.
It's probably if I'm being honest, it's probably twenty minutes, maybe thirty on a good day, you know, brand new
brain in the morning. But I think knowing that what is your threshold for anything, how much of a particular thing can you do really well before you might need a break, or you might need to do something else for a little while, or you might need to change the way that you're doing it so that the people that you're doing it for or with, if they're not being disadvantaged because your focus or your skill or your attention or whatever has dropped.
Yeah, and I do think you bring up a good point that there are it's about knowing your personal limits, and your personal limits might be different to somebody else's, so yes, maybe you know, some other people might have more stamina and be able to see eight people effectively, whereas I don't think that I could, or you know, even from a day to day perspective, like if you're going through something, you know, like I don't know, something significant in your life, you're not maybe going to be
as effective at work, and so maybe then it's up to you to reschedule or you know, like think about reducing the load that day because you know that you're not going to be able to do you know, the work that is expected of you, or that you know the person deserves. So really understanding what your personal limits are and then I think, you know, like putting ethics first, I think is so important. No, I don't think a lot of people think about ethics.
Yeah, and I think if you go.
From that framework, then you know, then you're going to put yourself in good stay.
And I think over the long term, like if you're doing I don't know, twelve shitty sessions a day, or you know, three good sessions, three okay sessions, and then you know you actually do yourself a disadvantage over time, and because that's going to impact on the quality of your work and what people say about you. And you know, it's just that I've got a gig not next week, the week after, and the company that I'm doing it
for wanted me to do four hours. Well I'm doing four hours, and I said, because they want to essentially nine to one, you know, with a little break, but nine to one. And I said, how about this, how about we do two hours before lunch and two hours after lunch. And they're like, oh, okay, I go. Can we just because you'll get a better me Like I can do four hours straight, but the last hour you might get seven out of ten me or six out of ten me. But if I can do two hours,
I can. I can be flying for two hours and then I don't eat lunch, So I won't eat lunch with them, but I'll go somewhere, chill out, put my feet up, put my head down, listen to some music, relax a bit, go for a walk, suck in some air, recalibrate, regroup, and then start an hour later and I can hit my stride for another two hours, and I just know that. I said to them, look, I can do either, but if you want the best value for your money and the best me, this would be the way to do it.
And they're like, great, let's do that. So I think knowing things like that, you know, yeah, and.
Then you know they get to make an informed choice. You're managing their expectations. You're being honest, and if they had chosen were actually, we don't have time for that extra hour between. Then you know you've managed their expectations. So they already now help you know what to expect. I'm sure you like seven out of ten still pretty good, So they might have decided like that's good enough. Yeah, but you've been honest. I think that's really important.
So I wanted to chat to you today about something that I realized. I deal with with people a fair bit, and I'm going to be honest and go, maybe I understand it slightly better than the average person, maybe not, but I definitely don't understand it as well as you. So I'm being a little bit cheeky and selfish because I need you to help me, to help others help me, but I think it's really Yeah. Yeah, well it's you know,
I want to talk to you about perfectionism. Yeah, so firstly in your terms, in Layman's terms, not necessarily in clinical terms, but can you just explain to us what it is.
I think it's a really subject and I don't think it's super straightforward. I think it's actually complicated to explain because I think it's like a mindset or a world view that influences how we think, yep, and behave, and it kind of involves a few kind of different aspects. I think one is just having unrealistic expectations. Yeah, and that might be like for yourself or for others. But you're if we're talking about perfectionism, well, we can talk about it as high personal standards.
Yes, but as you said, maybe hardh but.
Realistic, right, So like unnecessary or unattainable standards for like rigid rules of life that involve you, like having to do things that actually aren't particularly realistic, and.
If they're unrealistic and unuttinable, then yousoltely as setting yourself up with disappointment and failure.
Well exactly, so, I mean one of you know, perfectionism has a lot of negative consequences because, yes, because of that aspect, because standards won't be met. They might be met sometimes, but most of the time they won't because
they're unrealistic in the first place. And so that leads to a lot of harsh, you know, self criticism, and it can have an impact on your mental health and your sense of self worth and how you relate to other people and you know, the work that you do, and it can like alter your behavior quite a bit.
Like if you're afraid of making mistakes or see success and failure as kind of this binary, dichotomous concept, then you're probably not going to do a lot of things that could lead to potential failure or mistakes.
So why do you think, why do you start to interrupt? Why do you think that some of us? I don't think I'm a perfectionist, but I'm pretty hard on myself, and I you know, I can when I have this dumb habit. I think men definitely do this more than women do. But I could be wrong, but I quantify things. And so Melissa will go, I'll do a gig and on the way home, Melissa, who runs my life, everybody who's my business partner. She'll bring me and she go, how did it go? And she'd been asked me that
for fifteen year, fourteen years? Right, So if I go it was a seven, it was a nine, it was a six, she knows what it means, right, And I I don't like to give myself kind of too much of a pump up or too many platitudes because I don't know. I think subconsciously, maybe I'll drop my if I go, oh, yeah, that was a nine and a half, then I'm like, oh, I can't get any better. Well I just peaked, so it's all down ill. I don't know. But I'm a hard task master on me, but not
so much on others. I mean, if that makes.
Sense, Yeah it does. I think I might be similar. I think my expectations for myself are more than what they are of other people. I think sometimes, like if you, I mean, there are probably lots of reasons for that. One aspect of perfectionism is this kind of over reliance on achievement for self worth.
Yeah, yes, yes, that is so good. Yes yeah. So then we get our sense of value and self worth and identity from what we do and create.
Exactly, and if we're not achieving to the standard that we are expecting of ourselves. Yes, then we feel unworthy and we feel not good enough. We start fearing other people's judgment as well. And this is the interesting thing
about perfectionism is that it's it's perpetuated. It's not just perpetuated by the person like we're a perfectionist will perpetuate it by their own kind of unhealthy mind habits and beliefs and rigid rules for life that come from you know what, you know so many different places, but you know, often they're significant caregivers and experiences in life and all and models and all of that sort of stuff. But
it's also often reinforced in society. Right, So if you are achieving, yeah it, and you do well, you're going to get a lot of reinforcement for that, a lot of praise, and that's going to make you feel more worthy as a person. When what we really want, as like a person or a human on this earth is to not view achievement or productivity as your metric for worthiness.
It's so hard, though, right, because what you say is true, I agree, But also we are unintentionally taught that, you know, success is about all those external things, what you look like, what you have earn owned do, what people think you your brand, your likes, your comments. How many listeners have you got to your show, Craig, How many people listen to your show? Not like, oh what have you learned doing a podcast? Still it's like how many people listen?
How manys do you have? How much money do you make? Like everyone cares about all the fucking metrics. I'm like, including you. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, that is true. But I mean, like when I'm doing it, like right now, I'm just having a conversation. I'm not at all thinking about any of that stuff. I'm like just in the present, having an interesting conversation. But yeah, but we do, we do kind of, I guess, get our sense of self worth and me included, especially when I was younger, from
all the stuff that people can see and judge. Yeah.
Absolutely, And I think like one of the helpful things to do is to understand what your rules for life are, what your thoughts and beliefs are and where they come from, yeah, and how they're actually manifesting now, Like, what are the thoughts and thought patterns that you kind of live your life by? What are the underlying beliefs that you have about yourself and other people in the world, and then be open to challenging all of that. Like you just said,
like society has this definition of success. It's based on external factors like achievement and money and all of that sort of stuff. And it's like, well, that might be true, but that doesn't have to be your truth. What's your definition of success? Like what is the consequence of buying into this other definition? You know, the definition of your mother and father are the definition of you know, your teacher,
or the definition of society in general. Like it, these are all just constructs and they don't don't need to be believed. They can be challenged and you can have your own personal you know, beliefs and thoughts and ideas about what success is. And I think what's important to you?
Yeah, And I think it's like putting putting things under the microscope, like these accepted kind of paradigms and ideas where we go our success is and then go, who do I know that successful in inverted commas and also miserable?
Go, well, then they're not right exactly.
Yeah, or successful in inverted commas by whatever standards. But also and I don't mean there's no judgment, but just as an observation, also medicative for anxiety or depression of sleeplessness. But great house, great car, lots of money. And then you go, so maybe, you know, if we're generally I think we would correlate you know, happiness and content and
enjoy with success. Then you go, well, maybe on a level they've got it, but as an experience, like from the outside looking insuccessful, but the inside out experience not so much, you know, And yeah.
That might be their metric for success, but it doesn't have to be yours.
Correct.
Yeah, So, I mean I think that that's part of the work that I do with a lot of my clients is just helping them understand what their mind habits are, Like what are the thoughts and thought patterns and beliefs that you have that are just automatic, like not even conscious. Sometimes yes, that you just decided to believe, but you didn't decide, actually you just believe. Yeah, and you know, like do you still want to believe those things?
Yeah? Yeah. I've been writing down all these words which I think relate to or can relate to perfectionism. I'm going to throw them all out at once and then you go wherever you want to go. But I've written and you've mentioned mine, but anxiety, So perfectionism and anxiety, self loathing, fear, O c D, question mark, identity, overthinking. I feel like all of those things can intersect and collide a little bit.
Yeah, absolutely, burnout, imposter syndrome. Like there's so many fit eating disorders. Yes, there are a lot of things related to that perfectionistic mindset, and that can be negative consequences. You said OCD as well. It's it's like checking behavior
can be a compulsion for people who are perfectionists. Yes, like checking over, Like if you're a perfectionist with school or work, for instance, and you know you like read over and over and over to make sure like every T is crossed, every you know I is dotted, And it can it can be an aspect of OCD or just like a symptom that's related to that disorder. But yes,
it absolutely has a number of negative consequences. I think it's also important to not be black and white about perfectionism as well, and to maybe this might be challenging for some people to think about, but what are the functional aspects? For instance, So.
Do you mean light the pros.
Yeah, like, okay, so in like the one I'm thinking about, Like, I don't obviously, as a global mindset, I don't think perfectionism is as pros. However, there might be certain jobs, for instance, require a level of perfectionism that are important or positive. For instance, if you're a surgeon, or if you're.
You know, I was thinking about that.
Yeah, yeah, so if you're you know, like if you think about being a chef too, like you're cooking and mistakes that you make with food could cause a lot of health problems for people, right or like you don't know, I don't know when this is coming out, but the F one Grand Prix is on right now if you're I've just watched the whole season seven because I'm not even into car racing, but it's on a psychological level,
it's really really good. But if you're an F one driver, but you have to have perfectionistic tendencies to be successful, Yes, if you're an elite athlete, you have to have this kind of striving for perfection and this attention to detail and discipline and high quality work and focus, like all of those kinds of positions required that, right.
So this is interesting, Yeah, I because you made really higher rousal but low anxiety.
Right. So the thing with perfectionism is that normally what happens is you're constantly fearful and anxious of making mistakes and not being perfect, which gets in the way of you doing a good job. So you don't want to be perfectionistic in that sense. You want to strive to be potentially as perfect as possible, but have that balanced out with a reality acceptance and also like self compassion, because we are all human and all we can do is strive for that, but we know that we can't
achieve perfection, we can't be perfect all the time. So yeah, you're absolutely right. I think it's it's that's what I'm saying. It's like a complicated concept, I think, more complex complex, And maybe how it's often presented as this like bad thing, Well, there are aspects of it that mostly it is. Mostly
it's very unhelpful. But you can take aspects of it and make it functional without taking the whole, you know, the whole shebang where you know it's unrealistic and unhelpful and stressful and anxiety provoking and all of those things.
If one is a really interesting sport because it's like you need incredible you know, obviously reaction time, spicial awareness, kadia, vascular fitness, strength, like I need incredibly strong necks because of the j for like mind blowing cognitive skill, focus, attention, and like I said, arousal. But yeah, without without the potentially associated anxiety. But then also it lasts for like forty minutes. It's not like it's a thirty or sixty
second thing. Like they've almost got to be at a like a lot of things where you've got to be at one hundred percent very short, you know, like a sprint or something like that. But there's no in F one. Like even a sport like tennis, which requires speed and power and focus, we have you have time off between sets, as you know because you're a tennis fan, or even in Australian rules football. Well, the ball's up the other end of the ground and I'm standing with my hands
on my hips. I don't need to do it. But in F one, every second of those forty or so minutes that they're racing, Yes, it's got to be completely somewhere in the ballpark of perfection.
Yes, and it's dangerous to not be yes. And also there's so much psychological pressure just based on the fact that there's only twenty people in the world who get to do it, So there's just there's no job security at all. There really isn't. Like literally like if you see I mean, I don't know if you've seen the show, but like if you see them interviewed, you just see like they might not say it out loud, but the
stress behind their eyes. Yeah, it's the anxieties that it's real, and it's like they have to deal with that sense of pressure constantly, not just when they're driving all the time.
You think Daniel Riccatti is genuinely that lied back. He seems to be.
Look, I think there's more to him. There's a lot of complexity. And he said in this most recent series, and I'm sorry this is a spoiler for people, but that you know he got to a stage where he wasn't sure if it was worth taking the risk that you need to take in order to be the best, and you know that's a level of stress and anxiety. Then that's sometimes I think I think potentially is adaptive, right. I think as you get older and you have more experiences,
you are more risk averse. Yeah, but I think that might be a natural condition of aging.
And then or less testosterone in the case of a blog.
Yeah maybe. But also I think that your priorities change, you know, like it's not just about I'll do anything to win and I don't care what I'm risking, and you know how it affects anything else in my life. It's not that, right, which a lot you know, a lot of the young men who start enough one that's that's it, Like, that's the attitude and that's probably what
his was too at the beginning. But when you get older and you have a fuller life and you've got other priorities and you might have you know, family and children, and you know, there's other things that come into play, then yeah, you're thinking differently and that's going to impact you know, probably a range of things. It's probably why, you know, one of the reasons why it's more of a young man's.
Yes, you know, don't tell Lewis Hamilton that though.
There's always exceptions.
I feel a little bit sometimes like perfectionism is the symptom and fear is the driver. It's like the reason the manifestation of you know, perfectionism is driven by fear of something, fear of failure, fear of embarrassment, fear of not being accepted, of not being pretty enough, or lean enough, or rich enough, or successful enough. I feel like fear is a big component of it sometimes at least.
Oh definitely, I think that if you if you think about family of origin, and I mean it's definitely has a significant impact on whether people develop perfectionistic tendencies. It's like how they've grown up, what they've been around, Like, it's not uncommon if you grow up in are in and around people who are demanding or punitive, and that might not be in every aspect of life, it might be in one, Like we can be perfectionistic about one
aspect of our life too. It doesn't have to be every aspect correct so or And then you know, if you grow up in a family who they don't tolerate expressions of vulnerability or disappointment, and mistakes aren't couched as learning experiences, there are things to be ashamed of and punished for, then of course you're going to grow up
being afraid of showing any weakness or vulnerability. And that again is like that fear perpetuates the perfectionistic tendencies, and then anytime you're doing well and you get reinforced for that, that reinforces the perfectionistic tendencies as well.
So should we treat the fear or should we treat the perfectionism? Or am I thinking about it incorrectly?
Well, they are very like your thoughts are linked to your feelings and behaviors, so I don't think yes, you can actually target each You know you can target feelings, you can target thoughts, you can target behaviors, but you also recognize that they're all connected. So you target one, it's going to impact the other the other aspects. So yes, I think that help A helpful way of dealing with perfectionism is like a cognitive behavioral therapist would say, yes,
most likely target thoughts first. You target the thoughts and the beliefs that will impact feelings and behaviors. But sometimes if distress is too high, then you can't effectively target thoughts. Your brain's not going to be working particularly well enough to do that in an effective efficient way, So you would target feelings. Then how do I reduce the level of fear and anxiety in this person so that they are able to think more clearly and challenge and modify
their thoughts more clearly. So, or you could say target behaviors and you know, doing things like exposure therapy or behavioral experiments like for instance, with a perfectionistic person, you might say, go out and make mistakes on purpose, like to choose an activity. You know, we'd be very specific about it, like what are some things that you do.
Let's say play tennis, and you know I have to win every point, okay, Well I want you to like make an error on purpose, like I want you to lose on purpose or whatever whatever the experiment is, so that they can learn, yes, to tolerate the distress of that, and that it is possible, and that also it's not really a measure of their self worth, Like people are still going to be accepting of you even if you don't win match, for instance.
And also understanding that if if their approval and acceptance and love and whatever is contingent upon me achieving some metric, well that's not anyway.
Right exactly. So that's a really good learning thing learning
aspect as well. So I think like no matter where you decide to target, yeah, you're going to impact the other areas and I and you know, for me, when I'm seeing someone who who is perfectionistic or has fear and anxiety is like a main component of their issue, then it's really like knowing that person and where they might have the most success to start with, Like where where were we going to have the most impact if we target feelings, thoughts, or behaviors.
First, So as we wind up and I know there's no single starting point, like there's no three step plan for virtually anything. But for someone who's listening and going, that all makes sense. But I'm a perfectionist and it's making my life worse, not better. What might what might I say a starting point be not necessarily a particular strategy, but just where would we start to address this?
Yeah, I think the first thing, like you said, was just just being aware that it's a problem is really a step in the right direction. So like, well done. If that's where you're at and you're like, this is this is I'm noticing this in myself and I'm seeing the negative consequences and I'm aware of it. Great, that's great. First step. The second thing is understand what the function
of it is for you? Like, what is what I mean by that is, like we don't normally do things if there aren't any benefits to it, right, So they might not be healthy benefits, but they're still benefits, right, So what are you getting from thinking and behaving in that way? What are the positive consequences for you? And then what are the negative consequences? That again, that raises your level of awareness of what it is for you personally.
And I think the next thing would be to maybe write down some of your perfectionistic thoughts, like what are your rules for life that are you know, influencing your perfection perfectionistic behaviors like that you should be perfect or else or success means a D and C, or you know, whatever they might be, and then have a go. But like understanding where those beliefs came from? Yeah, who you
that weren't born with them? We all learned. Yeah, we're all brainwashed right in somewhere, you know, from our experiences and influences. So where do they come from? How is it? Well, we've talked about how is it impacting you the positive and negative consequences? And what can I do to adjust these thoughts and beliefs to make them more reasonable, realistic, flexible, balanced, adaptive, so that I reduce the negative consequences and increase the positive consequences.
I think what's interesting too, is like some of us, well I think probably all of us at some stage have maybe it's not absolute perfectionism, but we have these underlying all be happy when stories, and then the when arrives and we're like, oh, I'm not happy, Like if i'd do this or change that or own that or earn that or look like that or achieve that, I'll
be happy. And then we get we get to the top of that mountain and we're like, hmm, I don't feel like I thought I would feel whatever I thought was going to happen inside when I did that thing, outside that external thing, I thought there'd be a corresponding internal thing which would be very positive. And so I must be on the wrong mountain or you know. It's like, no matter where we are, it's not where we want to be. We keep shifting the goalposts.
Yeah, And I think that that's a really good point. I think that because perfectionism is so tied to self worth, and so what you're actually doing is you're setting these goals so that you feel worthy, and then you realize
that that isn't making you feel more worthy. So one of the things that you can also do is define what that is, what is self worth to you and challenge that or like even like I've had people do exercises where I say, well, you know, like you're you're wanting to be this whatever self worth worthy successful person. Think about somebody in your life that's like that, or you know, it could be someone who you don't know what are their characteristics.
Yeah, I think that can.
Be really enlightening for people because I think sometimes you get people will get stuck on a goal, like a weight for instance, a weight goal I have to look a certain way, but when they actually describe somebody they think has a lot of confidence and self worth, there's nothing about weight on that list, Like it's not about that. It's actually about how do I accept myself fully? You know, no matter what. That's a that's confidence.
And I think I don't know if it's just because I'm all but like being comfortable going I guess what, I'm not the best to this and that's okay, Yeah I fucked that up. That's okay. I'm not as strong as I used to be, that's okay. I don't look like I used to look that's okay, Like it's all okay. It's it's like I'm not saying we're giving up or we're not trying. But oh I did this thing and I got it wrong. Okay, cool, that's all right. Not like I'm an idiot. I'm a fucking no, I just
got it wrong. Did you want to get it wrong? No? I didn't. Did you try to get it wrong? No, but you got it wrong. Yeah. Cool. So that means you're human. That's a pretty big club. You're part of that club. It's okay, like fucking up, okay, not knowing things okay, you know, slipping up and being you know, doctor Lilly and getting shitty in the car okay, you know, snapping at the kids every now and then. Not optimal, but every now and then as long as there's no
damage done, okay. You know. It's like, oh, like, we have these ridiculous standards that are essentially unachievable, and in that pursuing the unachievable one, we never get there. So that's frustrating. But two, we literally make an emotional and psychological prison for ourselves because we're perpetually not fulfilled and unhappy. Because the goal that we've set is literally not within our grasp.
Yeah, And I think it's we're very change focused humans, like, yeah, I want to be better, do better, feel better, Like we're always in that. Most of us are always in that mode rather than balancing that. I'm not saying don't do those things, like those are adaptive in their own way, but if you're always there and you're never in. But I'm accepting myself fully also, like I can accept myself fully as I am today, and I can also know that I can do better and feel better and be better.
But I can do both at the same time. It doesn't have to be either or Yeah, and it doesn't have to be like punitive. You know, if I don't do my best today, that doesn't mean that I'm bad or wrong or people will hate me or judge me, or or even if they do, that's not necessarily a reflection on you. You know, that's that's something they might need to work on, not not you. So yeah, I think the balance between acceptance and change is.
Really important always in lightning, Doc, thank you for packing that with us. We love that you're a regular now and I'm getting you on in between your regular gigs, which is very your, very accommodating, so thank you.
You're very welcome.
How do people find you and follow you and learn more about you?
Websites A good spot doctor lilliananjad dot com. I've got some if you go to stuff you there's a lot of little free resources for you and that will help with stress and anxiety and sleep and yeah.
Perfect, perfect, Well, thank you again. We love you being part of you project team. You're great at it. People love you. We get only good feedback.
That's nice.
We'll say yeah, see ya bye,