Peach Shepherd, welcome back to you project.
Thank you Craig Harper for having me, Thank you Tiffany Cook, thank you everyone, Thank you all boys, thank you Linesman.
Is that what we do? We thank everybody absolutely absolutely, and that's it. We're done over and now looking back Tomara with more of the same here on Melbourne's Hi tiff Hi, you guys were having the most interesting conversation
before we actually press the go button. So can we just revisit that because Pea Shepherd is now in cyclone Central, living on in Queensland, I should say, in bris Vegas, and just repeat that little story you told us, the little bit of wisdom that your neighbor gave you, and then your subsequent ignorant reasons but understandable. Yeah.
Well, I mean I'm a Victorian at heart. We've only lived in Brisbane for two years. And so I was outside putting the bins out and my next door aber said to me, so you all cyclone prepped for Alfred And I said, mate, like, you got to tell me what that meant because I have no idea what I'm doing, Like it's the house safe as a secure And he said, oh, we chucked the bins out of the house, take everything that's in the backyard and put it inside. You don't
want any projectile missiles flying around. I said that's fair enough and he said, oh, and also you probably want to fill up your bathtub full of water.
I said why and he said, because you might not have drinking water for a few days. I'm so am I.
Drinking out of the bath or like, what's going on? Apparently that's what we could be doing.
Well, you may well be well and for people who are not in Australia. So we're recording this on Wednesday, the fifth of March, and it's due cyclone as a George cyclone for it, sorry, Cyclone Alfred is due in Queensland tomorrow. Am I correct with that? Yeah? Tomorrow night apparently. And what's the state of mind of people? It's everyone pretty cool and organized or people run around with their undies on their head. What's going on?
It feels a little bit like the latter it Actually, I don't know if this is just because it's how I've felt because I'm again an ignorant Victorian.
It's not experienced this before.
But the closest thing I've compared it to is like the start of COVID twenty twenty in March, right, everyone's like there's a press conference every six hours. We don't know what's going on, but you probably just want to go get some supplies, don't know why. So there's nothing in the supermarket shells, you know, people are stocking up on toilet paper.
For like just god knows why.
And then it's sort of eerie when you look outside people are mowing the lawns and like packing everything away, and I don't know, that's the closest thing I've found it to be. So it feels a bit like the ONI's on the head in your example.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean, obviously, the most famous cyclone story in Australian history that we know of anyway in the last one hundred or two hundred years is Cyclone Tracy Darwin was at nineteen seventy four. You're both too young to remember, but Tiff, could you just google that for me? Cyclone Tracy was at nineteen seventy four. But yeah, well that absolutely pretty much destroyed Darwin. So
let's hope there's nothing like a repeat of that. But compared to like about quarter of our listeners, which I didn't really know till the other day. On the EU Project, about quart of our listeners are from the States, right, and they're not unfamiliar with cyclones and tornadoes and bloody hurricanes. And what was.
It ye nineteen seventy four, twenty first of December?
How many people died in that? I think there was not the swow Wow, that's a significant natural disaster. So let's hope you don't get any of that.
Pete was not too I actually speaking of I spoke to a colleague of mine who's American this morning, and the thing I learned in our conversation was, I think this is true. She was talking about a hurricane, and I was saying, what's the difference between a hurricane and a cyclone? And I'm pretty sure the difference is one's North American, that's the hurricane. One's the Southern hemisphere, which is a cyclone. Sorry, one's in the northern hemisphere. Ones
the Southern hemisphere. They're actually the same thing.
Well, TIF will TIF will get into bloody check that. Let's factor Jerry, Google or maybe Lai or chat chatters. So new boyfriend, what is yeah? Well, how have you been anyway? While while our personal assistant is finding that out. How I'm good. It's been I guess a few months since we caught up. It's a new year.
I've just got back from a couple of weeks in Japan to reset with the family, which was amazing. Got to have some time off and now kind of get back into work and get back into trying to, you know, help people in whatever way I can through the lens of sort of leadership development. So all is well, pending the you know, the upcoming cyclone that we've already talked about.
Perfect how you traveled? Yeah, I'm all right. I'm allegedly on the home straight of my PhD, which is I'm sick of talking about it. I'm sure my fucking listeners are. How long is the home straight? How long is the home straight? Well? I might get this wrong by a day or two, but I think my everything's got to be done, dusted, handed in by July seventeen, which means it's actually got to be like my PhD ends on July seventeen, So I'm currently So I've got a sorry
to bore you everyone. So I did one, two, I did three. I ran three quite big studies and of those three studies. I'm writing two maybe three empirical papers. I'm also writing a thing called a systematic literature review, which is much bigger than an empirical paper. Typically like to start to finish writing a systematic doing all the research for a systematic review, then writing it, and that
today is about a fourteen month journey. And then I'm also writing my thesis, which is basically for people who are wondering what the fuck is a thesis, it's almost like the story of your PhD journey. So this is what we looked at, and this is what we did and why we didn't, how we did it, this is what we discovered, and this is why the world needs this research. And this with a whole in the science and the research, and this is what I did to
part fill that hole. And this is what we discovered, and this is what it means scientifically but also practically. So I've submitted one empirical paper which I'm waiting to so I need to have had at least one paper published as in so you can either do it by thesis, whereas you just basically write about an eighty thousand word essentially a book, but that those eighty thousand words have got to be absolutely fucking perfect, like not one comma,
not one nothing like, everything's got to be perfect. That well, the part I've chosen, which is not easier, it's just different, is by publications. So you need to have your work, your papers published by academic journals. I'll be submitting three, maybe four, it depends on how I go over the next few months. I've submitted one. I'll have my litle review first draft finished by the end of this week, and then I've got to write one maybe two more. But because I've got all that, you know, I've done
all my research, I've got all the data. I've done all my what's called academic milestones where you go and stand before the board and justify your you know, your research and please don't kick me out. So I've done all that. So when you say so, it's just up to writing shit. Now, people go, oh, well, that'll be easy because you're a writer. It's like, nah, it's not the same, and can I I've told this once before,
but I don't think i've told you so. You you speak professionally, You're great, I've seen you your world class I speak professionally. I'll let everyone else be the judge of whether or not I'm any good. But I can certainly say that talking to a thousand people, I'm not nervous.
For me, it's fun. Same for you, I tell you, standing in front of a board of four professors or essentially they're fucking judges right standing in front and talking for twenty minutes, right, So you've got to talk for twenty minutes, which for me, I'm not even warmed up for twenty minutes, right, and then you get grilled for the balance of the hour, which is forty minutes on your research, design, methodology outcomes, why you didn't do this,
why you did that. That is for me, the hardest speaking gig or those four things I've ever had in my life. And can I tell you, I'm shit at it. I'm so not in my natural habitat because you know how, when you go somewhere you've got a fair level of confidence and maybe they even know who you are. There, may be a little bit excited to hear you talk, right, they're like, oh this is that guy? Fuck yeah, you know, or better still, if it's public event, they've paid to
see you, right, so they want to be there. Well, in front of these people and completely understandably you're just a number. You're like three, five, one, seven two at Monash or whatever you are. So anyway, anyway, it's like I'm either going to be really sad or happy in about four or five months. If were you looking up something for us.
Yes, a hurricane occurs in the North Atlantic Ocean, the Northeast Pacific Ocean, and the South Pacific Ocean, and a cyclone occurs in the South Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean, and they are essentially the same thing.
That to me seems dumb. It's like it's the same Wow, the same thing. Yeah, yeah, do you know what else? We'll actually have a proper podcast in a minute, everyone, we'll actually talk about something that Pete's here for. Do you know what I learned last night that I didn't know the Isle of Man? Either of you two know anything about the Isle of Man. So the Isle of Man is it's its own, independently governed territory. I might fuck a bit of this up. So it's independent of
Ireland and Scotland and England. It's in the middle of the Irish Sea and it is roughly equidistant from all three of those nations, right, So it's I think it's like thirty odd k's from England and forty and fifty from Ireland and Scotland give or tape. But it's vaguely in the middle of those three. It's self governing, has its own parliament, has its own like fucking jail. It's and only eighty eight thousand people live there, and it's
it's not a country though, but it's a self governing something. Yes, so interesting. I watched this and I thought, there's a place in the world. I know pretty much fucking nothing about it. There's plenty of to our listeners in the Isle of Man. But you know what I do. I'm like, this is what I do. So I watch you shout out to Brian, shout out to Brian from the Isle of Man. But I watched something like that. Then I go, fuck,
I want to live there. I wonder how much a house is, and then I go real estate Island Man. Then I go down this rabbit hole and I'm like, yeah, they have their own currency, they're not part of the EU. So interesting. And you think Australia is relatively small, It's like, wow, we're a fucking metropolis compared to their anyway. So that's what I'm going for Christmas. What's the most remote place, Well, both of you have been to in the world, as in just a not a big place. That is a
good quest. I think maybe.
I mean, Cuba is pretty big in terms of there's a lot of people that live there, but it's remote in the sense that it's very difficult to actually go to and visit because of historical government relations. I've been to Cuba, so maybe Cuba. Yeah, but there's too plenty of people. Yeah, Yeah, it's very interesting. It's basically nine and sixty, isn't it. It's basically your Yeah, it's like you're traveling to nine a sixty. I remember, I'll never
forget staying in this. You stay in people's houses and they just have lound rooms and stuff set up with beds and and I remember being in like the lound room and they were making us, I don't know, a coffee or something, and the owner of the house came home with a piece of like raw meat in his hand. Oh he just that he just ran down to the local person and bought from And they didn't have a bag,
they didn't have a cooling system. They this has had a piece of meating's hand and they started cooking it up like that was that was the means of transporting this piece of meat.
Wow, a piece of meat holding a piece of meat and did you did that subsequently become your dinner? Well I ended up having the vegetarian onward because I was a bit scared.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it was fascinating. No Internet, like it's sue was super remote. Yeah, it was like being in the sixties. Not that I was there to comment.
But I felt like and also sorry tip before we go to you. But but also they don't they don't bring new things in, like they don't import cars into Cuba or am I correct?
Everyone's driving around in these old muscle cars. Yeah it's crazy. Yeah, horses, it's it's bizarre. But it was such a Yeah, it was a cool experience.
Tiff for me would have to be the Himalayas. I guess a few days we were up in Negar, which is you're part of the Himalays, where there were just there's nobody except for the odd horse whilla transporting horses or cows across the and that was amazing.
Wow. Yeah, wow, you help there you go. Like, I went to a really small island which is part of Anawatu called a Spiritu Santo, which I think I've spoken about, and I don't know. The total population is two hundred. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but it was when I went, it was like the airport was basically a shed and you have to get a small This is literally what happened. So Port Vila is the capital unless I'm fucking this up of Vanuatu, and I had to get It was for a wedding. I
had to get. I was going to a wedding on a spiritual santo and I had to get a light plane there. Now this was in my bodybuilding days and I wasn't in Christine condition. Let's say that tiff I was off season fat. I was off season fat, which is a euphemism for I was just fat, right anyway, But you can't say that anymore, even if it's about yourself. Anyway, I was fat as fuck. Let's just go with that now. I had been fatter though anyway. So here's the fucking
terrifying thing. Before you get on the plane, they have to weigh you. So it was an eight person plane. They have to weigh all the luggage, they have to weigh all the people. And I get on and this little Vanawatuan man who was just beautiful and weighed as much as my fucking breakfast. I get on the scales and he goes, you're too fat. You're too fat. That's he said to me. You're too like literally, you're too fat. I'm like, pardon, and he goes, you're too fat, like
quite emphatically, no pun intended. So I'm like, well, dude, I'm I don't know what to tell you. I can't be less fat instantly. I'll take that under advisement and do something moving forward. But right now I weigh one hundred and twelve killers. Now to give that some context, today I weigh eighty four or five. So yeah, back in therapy for fat arts. But yeah, that's brilliant. Come
back tomorrow. You're too fat today? Yeah, okay, now worry yeah yeah, no. We basically he literally worked for words, said you're too fat to get on the plane. Went, I don't know, maybe we need to. I need to take out some of my fucking hand cream out of the my moisturizer kid or something. I don't know, take out the cakes I've stored in my bag. Anyway, that was my that was my the beginning of my trip to literally one of the most beautiful places I've ever been.
But yeah, talk about yeah no they did. I just say, yeah, no, yeah, nothing, no, no technology. Yeah it was it was like stepping back five hundred years. But it was beautiful. But anyway, so mate, what I wanted to chat to you about today, Surprisingly not cyclones or tornadoes or hurricanes or remote locations, although all of that was interesting. I've had a phone. How much of your work is one on one coaching?
I don't know if I've got a percentage on it, but I try to cap at at about ten at any one time, So I tend not to have more than ten one on ones at any one time because that enables me to then also be able to group workshops and speaking and sort of longest longer programs.
But even those longer programs now.
I'm saying that are complimented by one on one coaching. So I guess if you looked at it from an hour's perspective, it'd be something like twenty five to thirty percent, right, So it used to be more like eighty or ninety.
Now it's more like twenty five thirty. Yeah, I want to talk today about coaching and get a little bit of clarity. Like all of us do coaching in some shape or form. I know Tip coaches, people like coach, some people not too much anymore, just because my life doesn't really allow it. But I still did. It's pieces,
and you do quite a bit of it. So could you do you just explain to people because I think there's a lot of vagueness totally, or perhaps the lack of clarity might be a better term around what coaching is now. I know it's not one thing, it's many things, But can you explain to us what it's meant to be? Anyway?
I'll do my best because I've I think I've evolved in my own processing of what this means and experimenting with what this means from where I was perhaps when we first started chatting about this, probably years ago now to now. I think I think of coaching as a posture.
I think of coaching as almost almost a philosophy, whereby you have in your mind this idea that the person you're speaking with probably has the solution, The idea the insight the answer to the challenge that they might be facing, and your role as the coach is to try and help them realize that, to try and help them get
unstuck from wherever they may be stuck in. Now what I've come to evolve into spending a lot more time on because of the nature of the conversations I enjoy and because of the nature of my experience and my
area of expertise. I guess you could call it that is, because there's so many different flavors of coaching, is I've tended to focus a lot more on this idea of like a leadership or executive coaching, which is ultimately helping leaders within organizations or executives within organizations that might have very specific challenges like I have to have this difficult conversation with the subordinate and I don't know how to have it. Can we talk about what I might do
to navigate that. How am I managing my own emotions? How am I managing their emotions? How do I navigate that context? So I think broadly speaking, it's about sort of helping people get out of their own way by asking questions and by holding space and by taking on this posture of like you probably already have the answer, I just need to help you realize that. And then I've narrowed it into the context of being a leader in an organization, especially that's where I tend to spend
most of my time. Now not always the case, but that's where I spend my time. Now, what do you two think?
You agree? Do you disagree? Yeah, that's interesting. I love all of that. I tip interrupt whenever you want. What do you think? And I know it varies, right, And by the way, everyone you probably not going to get a convergent consensus. You're probably not going to get a single definition or philosophy. But just because there is a proliferation of coaching courses and accreditations and fucking and some of my look at you know, and I just think, by the way, I don't think I'm the high watermark
by any means. And i just go, old mates done a three day coaching course. I'm like, brilliant, well if and I go, I don't know, maybe it's amazing, maybe it's not. I just think the bars too so low, and it's a it's not even an industry because it's so different and there's no regulation like there's no anyone can call themselves a life coach. Anyone go, I'm a life coach? Cool? What is that? Even it's not really a recognized thing in an academic sense, which is not
to say there are not brilliant coaches. There are. In fact, I think some of the best coaches have next this will get me in trouble sometimes no actual accreditation or academic you know, that's me. Yeah, I mean yeah, not that.
Not that I'm one of the best, but like that's I am one of those people that I don't have a formal Bachelor of coaching. And people don't really like this, but it depends, you know. It's like you could literally, I mean, I think we all know someone who's got a psych degree, and psych degree is not good or bad. And some people with a psych degree you can sit
down with them and it's brilliant and they're amazing. And that may or may not be because of their psychic degree or their sociology degree, or their masters or their PhD or their whatever it is maybe related or you know, like one of the smartest people that I know in the world is my dad's best friend, who's my surrogate dad, Gil he finished school at year eight, and he is profoundly fucking.
More intelligent than me and wiser than me. I'm a dumb ass compared to him. Right, So, and he's been coaching people without calling it coaching his whole lot, because he's a brilliant leader, a brilliant teacher. There was just no label, Like when he grew up, that wasn't a thing. Yeah, what are your thoughts? TIFFs? Like you coach people? What's your philosophy?
Yeah?
I guess that's why I moved away from the term coach and called myself the mind pt like and when I do my coaching with groups, I introduced myself as the facilitator of the thing we're doing, you know, life, because I think everyone has a different idea of what
coaching is. The book that I've just written a chapter in is a collaboration between twenty four other coaches that are talking about their concept of where they've gone beyond the traditional model of coaching and how they do things differently, which is really cool. I can't wait to read all the other aspects of that.
But yeah, yeah, do either of you think that coaching has a brain and the image problem?
Yeah, for sure, yeah, definitely, And I agree with Tiff that I've in certain contexts, I don't even like using that word to describe what I'm doing. I think facilitator, for sure, is a great word to describe, especially if it's a group. You know, you could call it a group coaching session, or we could call it I'm facilitating you through this workshop, and it's sort of the same posture in a way, but it comes with a lot less baggage and image problems. I tend to agree with that.
It is a little bit cringey. You know what else is cringey? This is hilarious the two things that I do. What else is cringe is personal trainer. I mean, like and shout out to all the personal trainers. I love personal trainers, and I grew up in the personal training space. But it's not you know that that's not necessarily held in super high regard, is it.
Yeah, that's interesting that some support that there's like certain associations with status that we make weaving the broader population when we hear these terms, And I think a lot of it's based on our own experience or based on the fact that we know this person we went to high school with who's now decided they're a coach and because they do their to our course, like you mentioned, and you're maybe a little skeptical about whether that's actually
possible and legitimate. And so I think you're right that there is an image problem. And it doesn't mean there aren't awesome coaches out there, because I think you two are clearly awesome coaches. I think I'm doing an okay job based on the you know, thousands of people I've coached at this point.
But that's not to say.
There aren't people out there that are a little more a little more shaky in terms of their credentials.
I actually go on to.
The tough thing with personal training. I mean, no, I did my qualifications years ago. But you're in a tough spot as a personal training because you go and do these courses and half of them are shit. You leave the course, you don't know how to train, how to train anyone. The way that you've gone to learn. What you've learned is how to not get sued and how to not let people die in your under your care.
Then you have to go out and start your learning whilst saying I'm now personal trainer, and that's the beginning of putting yourself in imposter syndrome and being a bullshit artist, and then eventually, after years, you slide into I know what I'm.
Doing now that's fascinating. Yeah.
I think this is where I got so lucky, a bit like your dad's friend Craig, where I was working in a corporate as a like account manager and senior account manager, helping leaders in organizations solve challenges through this series of consulting and programs that we had at this company I.
Was working for.
And then I ended up doing this online workshop which we've talked about before, Seth Godin's Altaba, and that was where I first interacted with a coach and what I started to uncover and I was asked to join the team as a coach, And when I started to realize was like, oh, this is I think this is what I've been doing for the last eight years, but people just call it coaching. In other context, it's asking questions to help people solve challenges. And I was like, oh,
you can call this coaching. So I think I got super lucky in that I'd been flexing that muscle and doing that thing for so long without realizing it. So when it came to time for when someone said to me, can you coach me? I was like, oh, I think I know what that means, and A I think I can do it because I've done it for so long without realizing that's what I was doing, which is very different to what you described to it with the PC.
That's fascinating.
I was lucky because I started in a boxing gym, so I was training people to box, so I could go and learn the other stuff before taking those clients. I think I would have hated the proces because I knew boxing back to front, so I was confident in that, and if people wanted a bodybuilding program, I would just move them on.
It's interesting because I think coaching is just a newish term for something that's been done forever anyway. We just call it different stuff, right, and we somehow went, oh, this is new, and it's like wow. It's like when trainers go to me, they wheel out some weird name for something. They're like, oh, what do you think of? A I don't know some name I've never heard of,
and I go what the fuck is that? And then I go, oh, show me what it is, and then they do this thing I go, oh, well, that's called x YZ. Or It's like, what the one thing that hasn't changed in the last thirty forty years since I started is anatomy and physiology. Right, It's like we've still got all the same muscles and all the same joints, ligaments, tendons, bones. You know, extension is still extension, Flexion is still flextion,
internal external rotation, abduction abduction. If you know where your muscles originate and insert and crossover, what joints, and you understand planes of movement, then you know you can look at any movement and know exactly what muscles are working because you know, right, and there are some things that just don't change. And so too when we look at whether it's psychology or coaching or mentoring or teaching or leadership.
You know, the same principles that kind of applied when the Stoics were talking about similar stuff two and a half thousand years ago about self regulation and self management and leadership and understanding the mind and human potential and self awareness. You know, nothing's really like the principles are the same. We just give it a different fucking badge and go, hey, we invented something. No you didn't at all. It's the same, totally agree.
One of my favorite stories is one of those old stoic stories that my brother and I often joke about, is I think it was Socrates, but maybe I'm getting the stoic wrong, But it was someone who ended up hiring an individual to be their humility servant, and basically this person's responsibility was to remind them that they're not as awesome as they think they are, to keep them grounded.
And it's like, basically, even thousands of years ago, this idea of being humble and having humility was seen as virtuous and it was a really hard thing to do, especially when you're in power and you look around organizations now. I mean, I talk to leaders all the time about how humility is a superpower, not a weakness, and so what does it look like to remind yourself of that and adopt this posture when you're talking to other people.
You don't have to puff your chest out and pretend like you're the most important person in the room and have all the answers.
Actually there's merit in doing the opposite. But that's not a new idea.
That goes back to Socrates in his humility servant, Like, it's ridiculous.
We have humility servants. Now are people who provide that service. They're called commenters. They might be slightly different. I think that's trolls, isn't it. Listeners shout out, yeah, no, I mean most of our listeners are very no truth, Tolly,
most of our listeners are very positive. Like the amount of hate we get this non invitation, it's minimal as well, I think because none of us pretend we're awesome, you know, like I think that people love just healthy conversations with people who kind of maybe are good at a few things, not so good at other things, and you know, just trying to help people do the same which is learn and grow and evolve, and you know, we're all doing the same thing at the same time, I think, you know,
slightly differently. But so one of the things I'm interested about with you Pete especially, and then TIF if you want to jump into is obviously every person that you have is different, so mentally, emotionally, physiologically, sociologically, practically, background, different brain, different experiences, and so we know that a four step coaching plan doesn't work because for obvious reasons. So do you have a set starting point. Do you
have a set protocol? I feel like you're probably going to say no. But is how much is ductured and planned and how much of it is freestyle intuitive and let's just see what happens.
I think I would say ninety something percent of it is fluid. And that's for a couple of reasons. One is, sorry, you should go back. There is structure in terms of the way the conversations usually happen, in terms of like it's sixty minutes it's every two weeks, for example, or
it's ninety minutes and it's once a month. There is structure in how we agree to run the series of coaching sessions that we're going to have, and then within that structure, I have deliberately create total freedom for a tow of two reasons.
One is, I think it's foolish to think that.
There's a twelve step program for all individuals as it relates to coaching. As you mentioned, were a four step program. And I think that a really important part of great coaching is to meet people where they're at, and that requires adaptability and fluidity because you don't know where they're at until they start speaking, and so there might be a common question that I ask at the start, like what's on your mind right now, what's the current challenge
that you have. Let's work with that, and then from there it goes in whatever direction it goes in.
So I.
Adopt fluidity because I think it serves them and selfishly harps and tears and listeners. I enjoy the fluidity more and I actually think I'm better at that that I would get so bored of myself if I was constantly following the exact same process. As part of the reason I didn't operate very well in a corporate environment because I was required or assumed to take on certain scripts and certain behaviors in a certain way all day every day.
I need the fluidity for my own intellectual curiosity. And you know, I was going to use the word arousalor, but you know, intellectual arousal or. I find it more interesting if I don't know what's going to happen. Yes, what everyone is like that, I get that, But for me, that's I love the fluidity because it energizes me.
What do you do to increase the chances of that one or one and a half hour interaction, that one one and a half hours of literally theory being operationalized. After the fact, you mean, yeah, so okay, you're coaching me. We chat for an hour and a half, I'm seeing you in a month, and I go, that was great, Pete bye. Yeah, And then four weeks later you're like, how'd you go? I go, what you know? I haven't fucking done anything? Let me talk Yeah, yeah, like, well,
one of my challenges. I know I can talk underwater. That's not the issue. I know I can share thoughts and ideas and strategies and information. That's not hard for me. What's not hard. But what I'm more interested in is how the fuck do I help or improve the chances of this person literally taking action and keep taking action in between our sessions.
Love this question. So the consistent thing I do, I guess this is part of the X percent that's somewhere under ten that is similar in each session is I will ask them to make a commitment at the end of the session. So, based on everything we just spoke about, Harps, what's the one thing you're going to do between now and an next session? Take as long as you want to sit there and think about it for four minutes. If you have to I don't care. I'm going to
sit here until you answer that question. And then depending on who it is, because some of my clients are like they'll do it by tomorrow they're really operationally active, and others I know I'll need to send them in a reminder in two weeks time or in a week's time just to go, how are you going with that commitment that you made, and they might go, oh shit, I didn't do anything. Thanks for the reminder. Let me
go and put this into action. Certainly not full proof, as still times where I get to have conversations with people and they go, oh god, I completely forgot to do that thing that I committed to doing. But I think there's more merit in them putting themselves on the hook than in me saying this is what you now have to go and do. That's at least what I've found to work better is like, you need to put yourself on the hook. And that's going to feel uncomfortable.
I'll hold you a cook to account, but you've got to put yourself on the hook. What's the commitment you're going to make?
Wow? I love that. I love that. I don't know if this is a good idea or a bad idea, but workshop it. After all, this, let's workshop it. So I'm doing a I'm doing a group on Monday nights. I call it a private group. There's seven people, so not so private, but it's a private mentor in group that's relatively expensive. It's ten weeks and what are we Wednesday? So two nights ago we did communication, connection and understanding others.
So every week there's a theme. Anyway, So we did all the stuff, and you know, like the actual sessions, as far as I can tell, are good. I get good feedback. There's a fair bit of interaction. There's a lot of note taking, there's a lot of head nodding. They can ask a question at any time, you know, obviously, wait for a gap in the proceedings, put up your little electronic hand, and as soon as possible, which is usually within a minute, I'll say, Pete, wa'ts your question?
What do you want to know? Or But I've started saying to people, look, here's what happens. Most times when I do something, or when sessions like this happen. Statistically, most people will do fuck all between this session and the next. I mean, really make decisions, take action, be proactive and productive, roll up their sleeves, get uncomfortable, like every day for the next seven days. Like, the chances
of you guys all doing that are zero zero. The chances of half of you doing that are probably three percent or five percent. And I go, I'm not saying that to be negative or to dissuade you. I want you to prove me wrong. I cannot emphasize enough how much these sessions and the value in the ten weeks, ironically is not about the ten sessions. Yeah, it's about the in between. I know, and you know. You can
turn up. Both of you can turn up and do your thing, Like can you stand and be articulate and funny and tell a good story and be a bit inspirational. Of course you can. But you get to a point where I don't even care about that. I don't care about that because that's without being arrogant, that's somewhat like, that's just an that's expected. You just got to do that. That's your fucking job. That's you know, that's that's the base. But then on top of that, you know, what's what's
the next layer. I absolutely agree with this so much.
I think about this more than I think about how do I come up, how do I have everyone think that I'm a really smart person. At the end of the session, I think more about how do I get out of the way and create the conditions for them
to actually do something. And so I will, like very tactically do things like if it's virtual use breakout rooms, where I go, what's one thing you're going to do based on everything we've talked about today between now and the session, go into a breakout with two other people, share it with them, write your names down, and now you three are an accountability group and you've got to keep each other accountable between now in the next session,
because I can't be the person holding your hand. And I think more and more in the value that I try and provide leaders and teams and people that are taking part in the sessions that I run is I don't actually want you to go that thing I just heard from Pete was so freaking helpful. I want them to go that conversation I had with that person that
was also there that was freaking brilliant. And so I'm seeing my role more and more as like creating the conditions for those conversations as opposed to being this like one voice that has to impart wisdom.
And.
I don't know, I find that more effective at least to create the conditions for actual change to happen. Doesn't always happen, but I think it's more effective than you know, go on to the days a little bit where we sit there and listen to the lecturer who's got the information that none of us have, because we all have all the information all the time at our fingertips.
Now, yeah, yeah, And it's almost like the I did the Peach Shepherd or the tiff cook course and it didn't work. What, yeah, I did it. It didn't work. What do you mean it didn't work? Like? Did you do the work? Like? Did you like all the stuff that was spoken about and all the head nodding and all the note taking by you and all the like. And it's like, at some stage we all need to go us three included. So I've told people a million times I'm not the answer to anything. I'm just a
guy pointing to the answer, and which is you. Generally the answer is going to you. I'm a tool, and many people will agree I'm a tool. I'm a resource, I'm a conduit to something. But you know, it's like, Hey, I can't be disciplined for you. I can't get out of bed for you. I can't have a good attitude for you. I can't make decisions for you. I can't work hard for you. I can't be brave for you. I can't be resilient for you. And all of those things are what needs happen and I can't do any
of that. Only you can do that.
And I think it's actually more generous for you to say that and acknowledge that with them to go. My role is to open the door and turn on the light. You need to be the one that walks into that room and do whatever you need to do in that room. I'll try and open the door and turn the light, and then it's on you. It's totally on you, And that's generous.
What's your advice for people either, t if I'm going to start with you, So people that want to be coached and they go, I'm I'm going to go to a coach, how do they get the best out of that? Like, what advice do you have for them to get the most value from And whether or not it's about nutrition or fitness or business or life or overcoming an addiction
or self regulation. How do we as clients who are going to see work with someone and by the way, that someone could be a dietitian or a physio or an exercise scientist, store a life coach, it doesn't matter. But how do we as clients get the most value?
Be honest, be curious, and be brave enough to go deeper than you thought you were going in to go. Because when I think about people that don't make change, I think there's as much power or maybe more in just helping them self discover the process of why am I not making change? So I don't care if you change at the end of this program that you said
you wanted to come in and change this. But if I can loosen the lid on why you think you want to change it and why you're not, and if you walk away at least scratching your head and going on there's something in that, then one day you might be closer to changing.
Yeah.
Nice's good answer. Yeah, I agree with everything Tiff said. I wrote down Attitude is a skill. So I think about the thing that I want you to have is an attitude that is can juici of to learning and growth. And self discovery and a willingness to figure out what your blind spots might be or where you might be getting in your own way. And so in my mind,
that requires a certain attitude. The good thing I think, at least in my experience with enough sort of filters, is it's pretty rare to get to a point where you're talking to a coach and you decide you're actually
interested in being coached. Like usually people opt in that are relatively attuned to doing this kind of having these kinds of conversations not always the case, especially if you're working with a corporate and like someone's recommended you have a conversation with this person, they're a bit like why am I here?
My manager told me to be here. So I think it comes down to attitude. Yeah, yeah, I love it. Well, you can talk. Yeah, Look, I just think that we really need to be like Tiff said, you've got to be You've got to be honest and a bit vulnerable and go, look, some of the shit that I need
to do I won't want to do. And people or tiar four Craig might say something that I find really uncomfortable and I'm not talking about anything inappropriate I'm just talking about, you know, like, if I'm being brutally honest, most of the big problems that I've had were mostly me. You know. There have been other variables and other people that weren't always awesome. But if I'm being honest, mostly me, Like,
mostly I have gotten in my own way. And I think something I've spoken about quite a bit lately is this stupid need that we humans seem to have to be right about things. It's like, oh, fuck, how many times have I gotten something wrong? Oh? Just probably a million. So even some of the things that I now think i'm right about, I know a percentage of that I'm probably going to be wrong about almost definitely, And that's okay.
And this willingness to go into the metaphoric room where you're the white belt, not the black belt, where you're the dumbest, where you're the worst, where you're the least skill, where you're the least capable and competent. Go into that room and don't run out to fucking go in there and learn and grow and pay attention.
You know.
That's like most things that I'm now good at, And I say that with an asterisk. I was not good at when I began.
Yeah, and I feel like as we get older, we put ourselves in those situations less and less and less and less and less.
Yeah.
Yeah, it it feels like it goes back to the humility servant, right, It's like having the humility to go, I don't know everything and that's okay. In fact, that's a good thing, because I totally agree with the Harps that like, there is this weird desire for people to be right, but they're not just to be right, but to remind everyone of like, oh, I predicted this.
Twelve months ago. This is exactly what I've said would happen. It's sort of like, yeah, yeah, and that's that whole kind of I did. It seems to be a bit of overlap and reoccurring theme here at typ But I did an episode a few days ago which I think
you would like this concept, Pete. It was called the fence Hitter, And I'm actually an advocate for sitting on the fence, right, because it's all sometimes it's seen as you know, weakness or ignorance or whereas I think, well, let's maybe reframe that if I'm sitting on the literal fence or the metaphoric fence. I can see what you guys who are on either side of the fence can't
see because I've got a different vantage point. You've got a Yeah, I've got maybe a level of awareness and insight and a perspective that is valuable up here right this whole kind of societal and cultural kind of I don't know, collective mindset of you have to pick a side. I'm like, how about this, how about don't tell me what I have to do. How about I just figure out and look that I don't want to be in either of those camps. I just want to be able
to think for me. And there'll be some things that I agree with Group A, something's group B, some things Group C. But I don't actually want to identify necessarily with some echo chamber of behavior or thought or culture or religion or whatever it is or philosophy. I just I want to think for myself. And if Pete and Tiff and I all happen to agree on a thing,
that's a coincidence. It's not a plan. Yeah, Like we're not all hanging out because we all have exactly the same And if you and I and Tiff all thought the same on everything, I'd be extremely fucking scared, and I I'll be like, wow, there's something wrong, right. I love that idea. Fan sitting is a good thing, I think. I think it gives you the last thing that I
wanted to chat about to you. TIF and I did a podcast yesterday where we spoke briefly about, among other things, setting goals and stuff, you know, old school goal setting one o one. But you know, when I talk to people on a really fundamental level, we talk about the thing that you want, then we talk about why you want it, and then we talk about how you're going to get it, and then we talk vaguely about when
you're going to get it. So you know, what do you want, why do you want it, how are you going to create it, what's your plan, what's your strategy, watch your protocol, and then you know, watch your timeline, give or tape. And it feels like with a lot of people, I want you to speak to this if
you can. When you do a deep dive on what people want and then why they want it, sometimes they actually go oh, because it's the thing that they initially want, which they think will open the door to the thing they really want, which is the why, the reason, the motivator, the driver. So like I might go, I want to earn five hundred grand a year, and the reason being it's going to make my life better, me better, I'll be much happier, I'll have all this flexibility, I'll be
able to do all these things. And then the bottom and then when you filter down through that, it's cause I'll be happier, I'll be calmer, and I'll be and then but when you do a deep dive, you're like, well, maybe maybe that will equal that, or maybe that won't equal that. So talk to me about that. Do people ever with you come in with a certain focus or intentional plan and then realize that maybe I'm climbing the wrong mountain. Yeah, I would say all the time, because
I think so. One of the things I think about is goal setting is important for the very reason that you just described. Is it because it can clarify what you're actually valuing or you're actually striving towards, or what you're actually pursuing and why you're pursuing it. But I
think goal achieving is overrated. I think the process of getting clear on what things are motivating you and why that might be the case is super important, which is goal and I'm repeating myself, but I think the process of in pursuing that, you are going to discover a bunch of things that hopefully enable you to unlock new doors and see things differently and realize the five hundred gramd was and actually the thing that mattered it was actually something else, and the fact that you wanted to
be in a different job, and so like, why don't you go and get a different job without the need to have the five Like the process of discovery just by setting the goal, to me is so much more important than like, oh I got the five hundred gram, but I'm miserable. Yes, okay, So like the achieving part is overrated. It's the especially if the process is robust, which the one you describe is. It's the process of self inquiry basically to go, this is the thing I think I want. Why do I want that? Why is
that important to me? And who would help me get that? And maybe in.
Discovering that year, oh, actually I realize I have twelve people in my network that could probably help me do that.
That's pretty cool.
So maybe I'll go talk to those twelve people and I'm less attached about because it's going to help me do the thing, but more in those twelve conversations, maybe I'll end up in like a bunch of different directions I couldn't have predicted at the start. So I like the process and I don't necessarily think the outcome of achieving the goal is as important as we think.
Yeah, so interesting, it's about cheesy, but it's about who you become on the climb, not you know, not the summit. And like to this point, which you said, you know it's like the achievement or the goal itself. Yeah, it's good, but I think back. So I started training people in nineteen eighty two. Well, I started writing programs, working gyms. I started pizzing in eighty six, which is next year, forty years right. I literally have trained thousands of people
who their primary goal. I'm not saying this is a bad goal. Anyone done crack the shits, don't send me an email. But their main focus was to reach a certain weight, or to reach a certain body fat level, right, and in some cases, to reach a certain bench press number or whatever. But they were all of these essentially measurable, quantifiable numeric goals now the amount of people that got to their goal weight and then went, ah, that's it, I'm here, I'm happy pretty much zero zero, yeah, really
much zero. It's like they came in, they had a goal, they achieved the goal, and then when they got to the goal, there was almost no contentment or no last contentment, right. And I think this is probably an episode for another day.
But I think we think sometimes that when we tick that box, or we hit that weight, or we hit that bench press, or we get that body composition, or we get that income or we get that fucking PhD or we get that that we're going to somehow that external achievement is going to equate to some internal reality that is pretty much nirvana. And then we get there and we're like, oh fuck, there's no nirvana with this. I make the same person. Yeah I've got to lose
three more kilos, it's definitely three more kilos. I'm still the same person with the same brain.
I feel like this is the same is true with you know, people who think they need to move overseas to escape the thing that they're currently experiencing in their day to day and they get overseas and they go it's all in my head.
Still it's still. Yeah, the fact that I live on the isle of Man isn't helping. The fact that like that that helps, damn it is.
I Oh, but I also want to go into that a little bit. For having the goals, It's almost like having the specific bench press goal is cool as long as your happiness and success and contentment is not contingent on hitting it. It's like, yes, can you enjoy the process of trying to get the one hundred and fifty kilo ground bench press and not only be happy or content if and when you get that? Because I think that's where we set ourselves up for failure, because you're right,
you hit the bench press. We I've have a benchress one hundred and fifty. But say you did, and you.
Go, oh, I still feel a bit shit, Like what's going on there?
Yeah?
I need to do one hundred and fifty one? Yeah? Why am I problem still here? Exactly? Yeah, I'm living on the isle of Man. Oh, Apparently my problems weren't geographical. It's psychological. That's true. I think it's so true.
It's like if people to go on a holiday to escape the reality, and they realize when they get back or when they're on the holiday is like, oh, I'm still the same person with the same noise rattling around in my head.
That's the way, mate. I love talking to you. My audience loves you, Tiff. It's got a hard crush on you. She's only a human. How do people connect with you and find you and follow you? I mean human?
Periscope dot com is always the best place to go. My email's on there and there's a bunch of tall metaphors that people seem to enjoy it because I'm a tall human. So feel free to reach out any point. I always get a lovely email or three off your listeners every time I want, so thanks, thanks to you, and thanks to the listeners for being so awesome and gracious.
Well say reach out then, because they have to reach shirt high.
I didn't, but I'm going to start doing that more deliberately. Now. That's great. Yeah, get on your tippy toes a thank you mate, Well say goodbye fair but two meter Peter, it's been fucking great. Thanks team