#1803 Is God Relevant In 2025? - Rev. Paul Joy

but I was thinking the other day about this. I was thinking, I don't know why, but my algorithm gets a lot of stuff, everything from motorbikes to bloody politics, to religion and god stuff and pro and anti and I thought, why don't I We've never really done I've got I think because of my background, I'll get to

you in a moment. Rev. Sorry, I'm just my long winded But because of my very churchy some might say religious Jesus, I'm quite reticent and hesitant to open the door because I can hear the eye rolling happening from where I sit, and I still, you know, there's I think I'm a person who has faith and has doubts and who has confusion and who has certainty and lack of certainty and all of that, And I just thought, I was thinking, is God relevant in twenty twenty five?

And what is God? And who is God? And so who better to chat to than a man of God who's going to clear everything up? So if you've got any confusion, you'll have no confusion in about forty five minutes. Good a, Paul, how are you? Wow? Oie?

your thinking and then taking action on that. And I would say that all those things that you've just mentioned about yourself, in terms of a person of faith and a person doubt and a person of confidence and a person of lack of assurance and reassurance and a person on a journey, all of those things that you described about yourself, I would put my hand up and say that that describes me too at various times. So I think we're one and the same.

Mom tells me they're like electric where you pay whatever and you and it's the same. I don't know the old days. She used to light candles for me like a world champion candlelighter. She prays for me all the time, and you know, to a range of saints, sometimes God, sometimes Mother Mary, sometimes a range of saints who all apparently have different I don't know, vocations or different reasons

to be prayed to. But yeah, and then I was I went into I came out of there, and I was in the I guess, the spiritual, theological, philosophical wilderness for a while. And then I met some people who hassled me to go to this church. And I say hassled, but in a loving way hassled. I was running a gym. I was nineteen twenty these young guys who owned motorbikes. I had motorbikes and they were like Bogans that believed in God. I'm like, this is a curious mixture.

chaplain in previous A couple of other educational situations. And so probably my career, if you like, in chaplaincy has been just over twenty years as a chaplain and prior to that or as part of that, in education. So I've been in education as a teacher, qualified teacher for thirty years. I'm ordained as a Baptis minister, and that's been sort OF's been just over ten years, and I'm still learning, still growing, still discovering along the way, and there's still plenty more to discover.

pitch to them it's not right and wrong. It's just our stories are different, our experience, our background, our family makeup. You know. For example, we talk about rituals every time you walk in your own house, you practice certain rituals. And I did a survey just in class yesterday. I said, for example, when you get home, some of you get to the front door, some of you enter your home by the back door. Some of you take your shoes off straight away. Others don't take their shoes off. It's

okay to have shoes inside. It's not right or wrong, it's just becomes your norm. What your norm is, your rhythm, your routine, your story, And that's the lens that you view normal from. And in class we explore the notion that just because my normal or my experience is different to yours, doesn't mean mine's right and yours is wrong. Actually, let's find out a little bit about each other's story and see where the connections are. Where you know where

the similarities are. But equally, let's celebrate and recognize the differences as well.

drawn to you. Like you and I haven't spent a lot of time together, but we've spent time together through the various things that I do, where you're often at events, and you've helped us out with your your sketch what do we call it, sketch art, Yes, sketch note, sketch noting, which we'll talk about later. But yeah, I think because it sounds funny, but because you're not trying to shove anything,

like you clearly walk your talk. Can you live your values and your religion, but you're not trying to shove it down anyone's throat. But how does that go down? When like you are in another environment with somebody who's theologically rigid, they're like, no, if they don't do this, and here are the scriptures, Paul, you know, lest the man be born again, he cannot enter the king for God so loved them that every of the shouldn't. And if you're you know, it's like, no, this is it?

How do you go with that? When people are like arbitraryan say no, these are the criteria. They do not meet the criteria. We meet the criteria. And by the way, this happens in a myriad of religions and theological kind of paradigms, not just Christianity. How do you deal with that?

work is in those formative years. I work in a school that we've got students in ELC we call it so three and four year olds right through to eighteen nineteen year olds at year twelve, and at any point along the way, there's the potential for them to be

curious and to be exploring and wondering. If from a lectern or from a pulpit, or from a position of authority, if I'm dictating and forcing and really very very black and white, then I believe that I am going to make those kids run further and further and further away from the exploration. Because here am I, and I think I'm fairly in touch. I think my own children remind me that I'm not. But I'm fairly in touch with

where young people are at. If I as an adult, just because I'm an adult, if I try and tell than what they should believe, then they're going to work very very hard to realize or look for, search for every piece of evidence that they can to say, well, clearly, you don't know what you're talking about, old man. I

want to be on the journey. And so for those theological even pastors and colleagues you know, who are working in a different context, and there are many who surround themselves with people of the faith, people who support their view people who listen to and you know, they can quote Verse in scripture and all those things that you

just mentioned before. They just continue to support that same thinking and mindset and block Whereas and you know, I'm troublably needing to be careful about not dissing what they're thinking. But I suspect that contact with the real world, if you like, in the school system, the learning system, the education system, that we're on a journey of exploration and discovery. Is different to sitting in a church on a Sunday morning and singing some hymns and preaching from the book.

And I do that too, and that's good in that context, but for me, it's more of a journey of self discovery and exploration, not This is the way you must get on board. Otherwise you know you're going to somewhere you don't want to end up.

of an ideological echo chamber. Right and well, this is the best way to eat, This is the best way to connect with God. This is the best way to get in shape. This is the best way to get the country running well is to vote for this party. This is the best way to make money. This is the best way to know whatever. But the problem is, one of the problems is when you unequivocally absolutely think you're right when you don't have data or evidence. You

have faith, which is not evidence. Faith is not knowledge. They are different things. Doesn't mean you, you know, like I believe in things that I can't prove. So I have to say, look, I simultaneously believe this or think this, but I could be wrong. Now, most people I'm not saying I'm great for doing this, but most people don't want to do that. Most people don't want to say, look, this is really what I believe, but I could be wrong because their identity he is intertwined with their belief

and the thought of me being wrong. And by the way, my religion believes X. And there's four thousand religions, twelve major religions, give or take. You know, we believe this, and which means we believe that nearly everyone else is wrong. And for me, that's like a really it's an impractical, unrealistic, arrogant And I was that. I was exactly that. I absolutely thought that what I believed was unequivocally the truth. I never thought for a moment, oh, this is just

my truth this is just what I believe. And by the way, I believe this because this is how been taught and told and trained and programmed. If I was Craig who grew up in India and Mum and Dad were another religion, and or I grew up in another environment,

be that cultural, sociological, geographical. If I grew up in a different mindset and a different culture and a different family with different beliefs and values, like you were talking about coming home shoes on, shoes off, front door, back door, I might never have even gone to a church in my life, but nonetheless I'd be the same guy, but a different version of me.

friend and as a family you go over. If whenever you go and visit somebody, your family would take, for example, a bottle of wine and a bunch of flowers or something to contribute to the meal that you might be sharing. If that's the norm, then you as a young person, you grow up, you know, as a kid, and then a young person, you watch that when you go out

when you're older, you will have a natural inclination. It will almost feel like you're not prepared unless you show up with a bottle of wine and a bunch of flowers or something to contribute to the meal or because it's what becomes your norm, it's what you're used to, and then that just becomes you know, you adopt that. We adopt those things largely through our experience as a young person growing up. And so what happens in the home and the influence of parents is enormous. And then

the adults that our young people witness and watch and observe. Yes, it's one thing to be teaching them. And you know, teaching has changed and evolved, and as it should. The I guess, the style of interaction and our awareness of different learning styles and all of that is continually continuously growing. And we as educators are learning. But the influence of us and us living through that which we teach and that which we In my case, if you like that

which I preach, I have to live it. If I'm not living it, the kids see through that so quick, it's not authentic. I get up on stage or I'm in the you know, in our chapel, and if I'm not living it, they know it. They see it, and the stories, the suggestion, the influence, the perspective that I'm trying to share is just worth nothing. And so I've got to live it each and every day. And that helps me, I guess, in terms of how do I keep showing up in it as strong one who strives

to be their best and always doing my best. It's because I'm very aware that people are watching. There's an added It's not a pressure because I don't feel and it's a bit like your story, and you don't have to make a decision about whether you're going to drink alcohol or smoke or because you've just never never done that. It's just it's a it's a non negotiable for me. Not swearing, for example, is really really important to me because it's a way that I don't want to get

in the way. I don't want to have staff, my colleagues or students if they hear me swearing, then that puts a seed of doubt in my teaching and my preaching and my example that I'm trying to set, and if I give them cause for doubt, then my message, what I stand for, what I'm trying to share, diminishes very, very very quickly.

full of crap or not? Right, Oh, you know, and if per chance it's not something that meets their expectation, you know, it's funny. It is funny because yeah, and I mean I always say, if you want to know someone, pay a little bit of attention to what they say and a lot of attention to what they do, because

what we do will tell people who we are. I mean, you can say all the things you want to say, but ultimately who you are has reflected in your behavior, your choices, your lifestyle, how you treat people over time, because.

get it right, you know. And you know you've got your version of this is what it means to tell people and share with people, and you know, from even if you go from a fitness perspective, an exercise specifictive, a diet perspective, and you know, most of us who are listening have heard you tell the story of you were living out a certain behavior even though you were

teaching something different. Me too, I am human, and I make mistakes, and I you know, while I strive to support what I say through my actions, I don't always get it right, you know. And that's the fall of

human kind, isn't it. You know that where none of us are perfect and I'm certainly, and lots of the best stories are helping the students to recognize that, you know that we get it wrong too, And the best thing that we can do as adults, let alone what faith perspective we're coming from, or whether we're a teacher or not, but if we can share with young people, whether they are five and six and seven year olds

or whether they are thirteen, fourteen, fifteen year olds. If we can be honest and say, actually, for example, I don't know the answer to that. That's a really good question. Let's find out together. Or I've made a mistake. I got that wrong. And you might be talking about something that happened when I was a teenager, or you might be talking about something that happened last week, or even within a class in a classroom, there are times when I get it wrong at the beginning of the class.

And if I can publicly acknowledge, or sometimes privately acknowledged to that student and say, mate, I'm sorry, I thought this and this or I assumed that and that, if I can go and reconnect and re engage with that young person, then that saves a lot of trauma potential trauma for that young person because we as teachers, even though society doesn't This is a generalization, but society doesn't value the art and craft of teaching as much as

I believe. I'm biased, but I believe it should in terms of our role as educators to create and shape the future. Society doesn't regard that highly enough. But young people, our connection with young people, we have to be authentic. Yes, we've got some knowledge that we need to impart and

share and expose them to. But if we're not showing up or entic and real and human and full of all MSS mistakes and full of all of the problems and issues and challenges and the humanness of us, if we're not willing to share that, then I just think we're in the wrong game.

Right now, maybe we were the problem. I don't know, but that's just my experience. And then when I went on and I went and did other more tambourine banging, you know, happy clapping style of church, like a lot of I would say, most of what came out of my time, you know, doing a deep dive into God,

let's just say that most of it was good. But what I did notice was, and I noticed broadly, is that in the place where you would think there's the most unity, there's often the most division and the most disconnection and the most like not a whole lot of you know, like the theory of the theology wasn't always outwardly practiced, and like for me, for me, unless there's not love at this epi center of whatever the practice,

the theology, the philosophy. And by love I really mean love, I mean kindness, I mean I mean loving serving if that's not at the center in a real way, not just in a theoretical way. And I look at the like most theological texts speak of the importance of love and kindness, etc. Yet there's so much hate, so much not love. How do you You don't have an answer for that, But what do you think about that?

agree with you. I even was having a conversation with my mum last night, and she was unpacking a version of an event that she saw with be in a church community that she's part of, and the treatment of people within that church where they received everything but love that you would hope that, you know, And that's what we're kind of we were chatting about going We ought to be able to expect better from an organization, whichever faith group that you might be belonged to, or which

whichever place of worship you might be attending. And you'll I agree with you that fundamentally, love and interaction and care and concern for people is at the core of most religion. We should be able to walk into any of those places and feel it and receive it and and not not the opposite. And unfortunately, the very institution that professes to love and to care and to cherish and all those things, unfortunately is way too often the

perpetrator of malpractice. And you know all of the negatives, and you know, and there are things in place now to try and prevent that. But and therefore, people's experience of those places, and in my context I'm going to talk about church. People's experience of the church and the humor within the church has a direct impact on their

association to God and faith and and understandably. You know, if I'm if I'm the chaplain and I've got a reputation, you know, the kids here they call me Rev. They understand that, you know, there's some connection between me and God and faith and and kind of that that that bigger than me concept. If I if I'm nasty, horrible and terrible, then their understanding of God, who I'm a representative of deteriorates. It's me, it's horrible. So I have

a responsibility. If I genuinely believe in faith and hope and love, and the greatest of these is love, then I've got to be living that out every day, like we were saying a little bit before. But unfortunately people don't always get that as good as we would hope.

It's like science itself is not good or bad. It's just that humans are involved and so science can be brilliant. And it's like some people could go to a church, as I did. When I went to a different church, I went, oh, my gosh, I've never had anything like this in my life. Hey, everyone, notice how I'm not swearing today. Look at me. And I made a commitment

to Paul. But yeah, I remember thinking, I mean, I've never experienced like this, anything like this, and everyone was, you know, nice and kind and interested and like the was different than music was amazing. But that was just my individual experience. But I'm sure some people go for the first time ever to a church and then they're scarred. They'll never set foot in another church in their life. So it's not is church good or bad? Is God

real or not real? Or is Buddhism this, or is you know, Islam that, or It's like a lot of it is really about what was your experience when you interacted with that person or that religion or in that mosque or that synagogue or that church, Like what happened, you know, And because people, you know, if someone has a bad experience in a certain environment, for better or worse, they're probably not going back.

One of my one of my wonderings is if if we look at the challenge of living today and again the challenge you know, you and me, two white fellas in a very affluent country. You know, we really don't have a lot to complain about. Orbit individuals are going to have their circumstance and their story, and you know, and rightly so, and we would listen to that and absorb that and affirm that in some ways as well.

further here. Back in about twenty eleven, the state government here in Victoria and other governments followed, pushed religious education out of state schools. You know, we used to. I grew up having a volunteer come in and you know, a little dotty old lady, and she would come in and she would share some Bible stories, and it was a half hour once a week. That no longer happens

in schools, in state schools. And I wonder whether there's a correlation between a lack of God, if you like, in our young people's experience and therefore the values, the principles, And I might even go so faris to say the Christian values are not being heard and understood through the stories.

I wonder if that has a flow on effect to how you know that then young people there now, young adults, the becoming parents, the adults of today, the decision makers, the leaders, the community influences of today, are missing that part of the Christian values because people in droves are not going to places of worship. These days. Sunday used to be for most of our childhood until about you know, I looked it up before. It was around nine ninety

ninety one. Sunday trading became something that we were just exploring, just experiencing. Prior to that, everything shut on Sundays. There was one day, and depending on your tradition, you might call it a sabbath, a day of rest and an opportunity to connect with family. My experience, not everybody's, but my experience was church became a place, a meeting place for community, and I got loved, I got cared for,

I got taught, I got engaged. Sometimes it was boring, absolutely, but I met with a group of people and it was the village. It was my parents' generation cared about me. My grandparents' generation who not my grandparents, but people of that generation within the church community. They looked back for me, they cared for me, they were interested in me, They taught me, they cared for me. And so my experience of growing up in church has absolutely impacted my values.

Young people for a generation and more have not been going to church because families, while they liked the idea, then not doing it. Schools while they might somewhere along the lines, like the idea, the church is not allowed in there anymore, and so they're not doing it, so kids aren'tetting it that way. I would suggest to you, perhaps your honor, that there is an and comes down to privilege. I understand that. But the spike that we're seeing in independent schools right now is enormous, and I

think that it's because families are concerned. They're concerned that they're young people, their children not getting the education, including the values in the local primary school that an independent school and very often aligned with a church a faith community, whether by aim or by action, sometimes both hopefully both. Families like the idea, they're not getting it from their religious organization, so they're going to their school, and their

school is becoming the one stop shop. School is where we develop our values. School is developed where we develop our mind. School is where we develop our sporting prowess and our physicality, and our interactions and social networks. So much is dependent on schools nowadays because that has become the new hub of community. Where As it used to be a church it I'm a sports club for a while, and now with the rise of independent schools and the

growth of independent schools. Unfortunately, that leads to the next impact, and this we don't yet fully understand, and that is families are stretched to the limit in order to get their children to get to an independent school, paying through the roof to get to an independent school, and the stress that that's putting on relationships and family and marriage and time together as a family unit. It's work, work, work, work. We've got to earn the money because we want to

do the right thing by our kids. And it's just this cycle is we just don't yet know where it ends. And I'm concerned for the impact of the lack of faith that our communities, our societies, our people. They're searching for it, they're seeking it, but they're not finding it in their local church or synagogue or mosque or temple.

bit of a pr problem at the moment. Right. I feel like people that are Chris are like, yeah, we're awesome, come and be on our team. Jesus is Ace. But from the outside looking in, people who are not not everyone, but I think a lot of them are like I Nelly swore, well, thank goodness, Christians are fully you know what, like hypocrites, Like they go to church and then they do this and that, and I don't blame them because

it happens, you know. And the amount of preachers and priests and people who are coming out and who have been busted for this and that, and they've done all this a moral, ungodly horrible And I'm like, well, no, I don't blame these people, you know. But the problem is that we associate, like I said before, that we go, oh, that person did that. Therefore all Christians are this, Well no it doesn't. That's actually you know, like I've got quite a lot of friends who are you know, I've

got friends that are Muslims. I've got friends that are Buddhists, I've got friends that are Christians. I've got friends that are atheists. I love them all pretty much the same, And all I care about is are they good humans? And are they kind and nice? And let's not debate about which is right or which is wrong, but on the most base level of human interaction. For me, I

don't you know. For me, a Christian who isn't for the most part walking their talk is like somebody who wears a tracksuit that never trains and says I'm an athlete because I wear a tracksuit. No, you're not. You're just wearing a tracksuit. Like to be an athlete, you need to do all of the work that is required to be so.

the most amazing human beings ever. And I've also met some of the biggest hypocrites I've ever met anywhere. But that's not to say that one or the other is because of God or because of church. That's just how those people are, you know, And I think you can put them in any group and they're essentially going to be that version of themselves in any group anyway.

who haven't been brought up in it. In terms of a newcomer coming in and you know, the churches have these rules, and unless you are in the in crowd, you therefore don't know the rules. And therefore you come in and you go, I'm not sure how to behave here. I don't know how this works, and there's nobody there necessarily welcoming you in to show you how to do this. You know, how do I open this book? Or what do I do with this candle? Do I stand?

and and we across the board. As a generalization, probably haven't recovered came much much easier to stay at home, you know, a little bit like work. Actually, you can flick on the washing, you can do a few bits and pieces in between. Doesn't mean that you're less engaged or that you're less productive. From a church experience, what you can do is you can watch online, you can tune in online, you can you know, effectively absorb it.

But what you miss sing out on by not showing up is you're missing out on what we call fellowship connection, the cup of tea afterwards that you know, how did your meeting with such and such or the doctor you were going to the doctor, like all those personal connections. Unfortunately, the church used to be the hub of that, and it was regular and it was very normal, and it

was part of a community. Nowadays, the church also has gone online, like much of our social interactions, like you know, like for example, you know, you and I were doing a reasonable job of connecting and being even though we're not in the same room. You would recall how much different it is to record a conversation like this if we were in the same room. There's a different energy

there's a different buzz. There's something different when you actually get to connect and you know, shake hands, give each other a hug, kind of you feel the energy which you just don't get in this online space. And our young people and us as old folks as well. So much of our interaction now is on a screen, and

it's missing something. And as I was saying before, it's not until you work out you'll try and put something back in, like connection, like real human connection in the same room where you can push shoulders and nudge into each other. While that's missing. Until you put it back, you don't realize that it's missing. But I'm telling you we're missing it.

them I can answer, some of them I can't. I mean literally I don't have the answer, and people want help and people want you know, and I put out an episode like this every day of the year, seven days a week, for however many years we're heading. We're past eight ten hundred episodes the other day. But it's funny, I was thinking about a week and a half ago, mate, about what can I actually do that's practical, like other than just get you know this. What we're doing now

is good. It's talking, it's theory, but there's no action attached to this unless somebody decides to and that's cool as well. And of course, you know, so this is a theoretical kind of forum where you and I share thoughts and ideas and stories and beliefs and concepts, and then people go, yeah, that was rubbish or that was good, or hey, I might give I might look into that, or I might give this ago whatever. But last week so I decided I'm going to actually create a program

that people can do. They can volunteer. There's going to be five different areas, you know, cognitive and person development and cardio and strength, and one another that slips my mind anyway, and different activities in each thing so people can just go, I'm going to do this thing with Craig's group, and I put it on the New Project Facebook page and every day I'm recording a video. We've

got hundreds of people doing it. I'm writing a new program every day, which takes me over an hour to write because I'm trying to factor in all of the variables around different humans and different bodies and brains and needs. And it's honestly, it's a lot of work, but it's cool, and I'm charging and I'm not trying to say I'm a good bloke because I'm not that, but I'm charging zero. And there's nothing at the end that's not like, oh

you do this, and now I'm selling you that. There's no cell right, and the amount of people who just feel loved and valued because I'm just doing something for nothing, and of course I do other things which are not for nothing, but consciously going and I reckon. I've had twenty thirty more. I've had at least fifty messages and emails from people going thank you, thank you, this is awesome, this is what I needed. And I'm like, my privilege

You're welcome. I'm so glad you're doing it. Keep going, you, You're amazing. And then a bunch of people going, I'm really glad you're doing it, But why are you doing it? This is a lot of work. I go because I just like, I just want people to get that sometimes someone will just do something for you. It's not about

my brand. It's not about money. Like there's a lot I could build my brand without doing this, or could I could take the time that I'm an energy and invest in something that's more financially rewarding and all of that. But I love that where you go do something for somebody that where there's no strategy in it, Like there's no strategy, you can't get anything back, and this is

just you going ah. And I know you do this all the time time because I know your work and I know you and what I'm talking about right now you do every day. But then extrapolating on that kind of biblical principle and in many other religions, it's a principle of kindness and love and service and unconditional you know, care and all of that. But then on top of that is this other personal benefit that is when you actually have a focus and a purpose bigger than you.

And I know I've said this many times, but I will always say it because we can be very self centered and self focused and selfish, but it doesn't work like there's a time where you've got to focus on you in terms of you know, getting your head out of your out of the dirt and you know, getting your stuff together and you know, looking after your health. I'm making that I'm not talking about that. I'm talking

about that propensity. We have to be selfish, but when you open that door is like I'm just going to do something for someone and yeah, I'm going to do this other thing over here where I make a few bucks. But it's like it taps into a bunch of principles that just seem to work on a range of levels.

you want to help absolutely. Their reason for getting involved might be, well, let me try this, or let me be part of a community that's doing this. I like the idea of being able to say, you know done at the end of my session. We in our school, and lots and lots of schools, whether they're state schools, independent schools, all the schools love the idea of helping

our kids get into action. And by action, I mean and we call it community service or community links where we and I'm kind of involved in it, where I love getting our young people, whether they're our three and four year olds at their level, our fourteen, fifteen or eighteen nineteen year olds, roll up this leaves, get some dirt under your fingernails, and go out and help somebody. So we you know, for example, we not this weekend.

Next weekend we're doing a walk and we will have one hundred and fifty of our community go out and do this walk. It's a fundraising walk for the local Monash Children's Hospital and shout out to them. We'll walk and we'll support. We do a massive We have about five hundred and fifty of our community get out on Good Friday shaking teams for the Royal Children's Hospital Good Friday Appeal. We get kids shaving their head for the Leukemia Foundation, we get kids giving up stuff for the

forty our FAMN and World Vision. The more we can help our kids to realize their situation of privilege, to get into the muck, get into the weeds, get into that and go. You know what, there are people who are way, way, way more in need than you. What can you do with your time, with your effort, with your skill, with your expertise, or with your money, go

and make a positive impact in other people? And I love the thrill of watching these kids then go out and do it and they feel good about it because there is kind of a it's that funny loop of selfish doing it for others. But you actually fill your own cup while you're caring for others. It's a win win.

insights and messages? Where do you stand? I'm not trying to catch you out by the way, because I don't even know where I I don't know where I stand. I used to think everything was absolutely literal. Now I probably don't. But what about you?

stuff actually happened. I do believe in miracles, and I believe in the miracles that the Bible speaks of because they're still happening today. Then we're not parting the waters of the Port Phillip Bay, but people are being healed through the point.

come from? Where did that start? Tell us a bit about it. And when I say he's good, everyone, I'm not just saying it because he's on that like his stuff is world class. Now I'll tell you when I do a live event like You Project. Now, oh hey, everyone, pencil this in your diary, just lightly because we're not positive, but it looks like June one. We're doing a typ event June one, all day and a bunch of other guests from the You Project, and Pastor Paul might even

be off to the side of the stage sketching. Who knows, but he comes along often and draws the speakers as they're speaking. I don't know how you do that, so you actually sketch the speakers speaking and also at the same time almost do like a highlight reel in written words of their message. I've got no idea how you do that.

I've got to capture all this information and write it down, and then I'll go back and i'll read it and i'll study it, and i'll learn it, and i'll know it, and it'll all be good. Very very rarely would I go back and read it and study it and know it. I came across this concept called, and it's called different things, graphic facilitation sketch notes, the idea of combining sketching or

drawing some visuals with written notes. And for me, when I started to play with it and practice at what I found was I could go back to a page of sketch notes which has got some visuals and got some hand lettering in it, and it's enjoyable for me to look back at. I like going back and looking at my sketch notes, and those little visual representations of

a main message, a core message. They are the prompt to help me remember the story that was being told, or the principle that was being shared, or the message that was being delivered. Through the visual it takes me right back there and I can hear the story happening again, and so the visual for me, I'm a visual thinker, a visual learner, and so the visuals helped me. So

now I create them, I listen. It has improved my listening and lots of my practice in terms of learning how to do it was sitting in church and visually capturing through sketch notes, the message that the preacher might have been delivering, sharing and then at the end of the message, I would share that on you know, I'm young enough and old enough to be able to share that to the church Facebook page and then share that with people, and people would walk away with a visual

representation of what the preacher just spoke. And I find it's good for me and I like sharing it with others.

I think it helps people. And one way to hear it is on a podcast or go to a conference listen, you know, go to a workshop and it might be an online workshop over a series of Tuesday nights or whatever it is for me another way, because I'm because I'm a learner and an educator, I know that not everybody likes to hear it audibly sometimes visually as a powerful way for them to resonate with the material, And so I want to try and help people be exposed

to those visual reminders and prompts and lessons that you might teach orally I can capture them visually and then together they become a powerful combination.

of the conference, and yes, you were suitably impressed. And I appreciate that and have enjoyed being involved in that over the journey.

In fact, if you are a person of if you're a religious minister or similar, and you listen to this show, send me a message because I think Paul's the only one.

And from my perspective, you know, I come from a perspective that says, you know, there's a creation, there's a fullness of life, there's an essential gifting and talent that we have, and I would want to try and help people find that talent and then use that talent. I think, in different words, you're trying to do the same thing. You want people to dig deep inside of themselves and find the best that they are, and then find a way to share that with others, to deliver that with others,

make an impact with others. You want people to live their best life, and so do I. We go about it differently. We use different stories and different language and different mediums, and we've got a different audience, but we're actually both on the same game. We're trying to help other people be their best.

I've got an email address. Do you want an email address? Your phone number? Two email address? Probably the best one again is hand Drawn Today at gmail dot com. And if you contact Craig, he'll probably give you my phone number and we can chat about that too.