I get it Team Craig, Anthony Harper in a key, Unworth Unsworth, whoever that is? And Tiffany Cook. Now David is rocked up using who is it in a key? Can we shout out thicker? I'm sorry. I give a shout out to Nica.
Whose who INCA is? So? Inca is the CEO of the Free School the you know, the charity that I run for the video I do.
And you have hijacked her laptop. Clearly I've hijacked her account. I'd say, okay, all right, well that's fine. Hi tiv Hi you all right, Yeah, I'm good.
Thanks.
You're a little bit you felt a little bit left out, a little bit like a virtual orphan because you couldn't get into the call and you cracked the sads and your bottom lip was out. You opened my abandonment wound and that I'm nursing it now, but I'll be okay, I've been nursing it for years.
Right, Well you rip it open again.
Well, you jumped on the call with two other people, and of the two people on the call, but you told Gollespo he was your favorite. Fucking hell really, in that moment with that open wound.
He was, Yeah, he was.
Now David Gillespie makes me look good at self promotion, and I'm shit at self promotion. He's worse. He is he needs to do a workshop or get some self esteem or I don't know. But so he's putting his articles on substack, which is a really good repository of interesting information.
So you go to H. D.
Gillespie dot substack dot com forward slash. Did I fuck that up? David?
Yeah, I don't know. I think that's right. As you point out, I'm really terrible at marketing. You do either go there or you just look for the name of it, which is ra in hell r A I S I n h E double L.
I will have it all in the show notes. I'll have.
Terrific thank you.
At least there's one person who's got a.
Fucking one who knows where to find one.
Yes, And when he says it's called when he says it's called cracker biscuits, it's not. That's an article he wrote. So his repository of articles is not called that. That's one of the articles. All right, So firstly, welcome and thank you again as always. Well, I won't say that because you could be ship. So I'll just put an asterisk next to that for the moment. Do you know how many people love you? I get sick of people going I love David on can he come on once
a week? I'm not like, fuck him? No he cannot. He's on once a fortnight. And that's almost too much. You did an article, No, not at all, you did an article called cracker biscuits. I'm going to read the little the little blurb. Supermarket cracker ales are daunting, a daunting landscape. Shells are packed with options, boasting a huge variety of flavors, textures, and crucially fat and sugar contents.
But fear and not. Cracker connoisseurs are brave the aisles scrutinizing the nutrition labels of how did you do this? Two hundred and sixty two different cracker biscuits available at our major supermarkets, Colls and Woollies? So you don't have to? Can I ask before you tell us the outcome and the data? How do you do that? Do you'd use some program to analyze the info that you get from the internet?
And I wish, I wish I could, but no, I actually just go and look at their websites, and then even then their websites are a bit rubbish in places. So sometimes I just go to the supermarket.
Wow, two hundred and sixty. I mean that would take a week?
Yeah it did, Yeah, at least. Wow. That is the worst bit about it is that the particularly the fat content, because one of the things I'm really interested in is the pollyun search rated fact content. We can talk about why, but they're not required to label that property properly, so very very few brands do, and you've got to actually work it out based on the bits and pieces of information they give you, and that can be a bit challenging.
Yeah, they're reasonably evasive. I always say to people the reason that the actual information is in the tiniest font of all time, at the bottom of the back, in the most inconspicuous place ever, is because they don't want you to read it. You know, the stuff on the front is not information, it's advertising. The actual information is hard to find, all right, So speaking of information, what did you find?
Okay? So if if you don't mind, well, let's divide in the world is divided into I guess people who can deal with gluten and people who can't but if you're one of the people who can deal with gluten, then the absolute best choice rye cruskets or ryveaters, as long as you don't mind eating cardboard, which is pretty much how I feel those things are. But you know, if you want to be absolutely top of your game, I am not eating any unnecessary polloy unsaturated fat. I
am not eating any unnecessary sugar. They are it. If you're more interested in stuff you can shove under your cube of cheese at your Sunday afternoon barbie, then you might be tempted to go for something like jats, which would be a bad call because they have fairly significant amounts of pollo unsaturated fat. So let me just say how much that is. That's around ten point six grams
per one hundred grams. Now, to put that in context from an evolutionary perspective, we need about six grams of polounsaturated fat to day, and we get it anything we eat. We don't have to specially, you know, just eat a normal diet. You'll get that easily. So having ten point six just in what you're putting under your piece of cheese and adding a teaspoon and a half of sugar for every hundred grams there, and you are necessarily adding
some significantly pro inflammatory fats into your system. So we can come back to why that matters. But so there are better choices. Water crackers are a terrific choice, even better than that wafer crackers. So the sort of fancier version of water crackers, you know, just playing wafer ones.
Good for the Catholics, good for the Catholics to know.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And the even better news is the cheapest ones are the best of the coals, and the Woolies brand wafers really nice choices there.
When you stay wafers, like, what are they called? Are they called wafers?
Call wafers, Yeah, wafer crackers. Sometimes what do.
They just flour and water? I'm assuming much much? Yeah, so they don't tend to add fat to them.
So so those are the choices there for wheat eaters. If you if you're not eating wheat, then you've got your rice crackers. And there are some good choices on the on the rice cracker front. The Fantastic brand seaweed flavored rice cracker has no fat in it at all. Zero.
Wow.
So it's a it's a decent choice. And yeah, there's quite a few good choices in rice crackers, because there's quite a few where they don't add fat to them. But if we look at the other end of the scale, too, some of.
The worst choices are things that people do toaut as being particularly helpful.
So I don't know if you've noticed or not. You know, probably on the on the party circuit, like you all the time, you probably have noticed this. But there's a bit of a trend, a bit of a trend towards what they call seed crackers, which aren't really made of flour or rice or anything like that. What they're made of is sort of little compressed discs of seeds. So you know those things they used to give budgies to chew on in their cages, the little bells.
Yes, I think they still do.
Yeah, imagine that. But flat as a cracker that is sold as seed crackers, and there's quite a lot of them on the market now, like quite a lot of them. They are really really bad choice. Like so the worst I found was a brand called Olinas, which is simply seed crackers. They are come in at thirty two point nine grams per hundred grams of plout saturated fat. And it's not because they add any fat to it. They don't add oils or anything to it. It's the seeds themselves.
So just eating I compressed bunch of the seed gives you enough of this plown saturated fat to make them quite really quite something to be avoided. Do you know.
I just want to ask you something, so I'll just get a little pen and pay here. I'm trying to do some maths on the go. There's an interesting thing that So did you say thirty two point nine grams of fat per hundred grams?
Yep? No, no, no, not of fat, of fulling out saturated fat. So that's yeah, the total fat is much more than that, really per hundred gram per hundred grams?
Yeah, ballpark? What do you reckon it is?
Oh? I could look it up, but yeah, so let me have a look here, all.
Right, because I've got I've got something else I want to talk about related to this. Yeah, I think people don't think about, so just find out.
Okay, here I hang on it. Yeah, I'm almost there. Scrolling through the Forredschieck forty seven grams forty seven grams of fat almost half fat.
Now can you tell me while you're there, how many calories are per hundred grams of fat? No, per hundred grams of the product.
Oh, I don't know per hundred grads of the product, but it's nine for fat and four for everyone else. I know that. So what I was thinking, that's looking at about half Yeah, so it's about nine hundred, no ninety, So you're you're a guy with the pen and paper.
Yeah, yeah, So four twenty three calories just in fat. Now what's interesting. The interesting thing about this is people would look at that and go, oh, it's forty seven grams of fat per one hundred grams of product, and then I go, no, hang on, four hundred and twenty three calories are from fat of the total calories, which might be something like six hundred, give or take. What that means is that from an energy point of view, about eighty or eighty five percent of the energy or
calories come from fat. So when you measure, you know, it's like, if we go by weight, we go it's forty seven pcent. But if we go here's the total calories, how many of those calories come from fat? You find out that it's more like eighty five percent fat rather than forty seven. Because what matters in any food with these things is like because if it was only about the weight of food, you know, it's because like a Mars bars is sixty grams and it's probably got more
calories than half a kilo of watermelon. Right, So it's quite deceptive and misleading that thing. Where we go it's like four percent milk, they say it's four percent fat, But when you have a look at how many of the fat the calories in one hundred mili of milk are from fat, it actually ends up being around fifty percent fat if you use it as how many of the calories, what percentage of the calories are from fat versus the weight. So what matters in things is not
the weight, but the nutritional kind of and the energetic content. Anyway, Well, although luckily good point, mathematical you know, mathematical point, thank you, sadly totally irrelevant in that it's not irrelevant. Don't make me come up there. That make me come up there.
Because evolution has a role in all of this stuff. We have a really really well evolved appetite control system that can detect exactly how many calories of fat are in food and modify our appetite accordingly, so that I.
Don't think most people have that. Have you had a look there's have you been to a fucking shopping center.
I'm a lawyer. So there's an asterisk s aff for that, right. The asterisk says except if you consume fructose, which is half off sugar, because fructose messes with that appetite control system and makes you unable to properly detect how many calories from fat you are actually consuming. So in a perfect world, i e. One without a lot of fructose in it, which is not our world, what I just
said would be perfectly accurate. In an imperfect world, you have to do all the kind of maths you were just doing to have half a hope, and then you are still fighting against an appetite control system that says, you know what, I'm not fool.
Yes, So I might have point out that while we are not in that perfect, that utopian, that utopian world that you described, we don't live in that. We live in this shit world where everyone eats all that crap. But there is a way you are supporting my case, your honor, I.
Am, But there's a way to get to that utopian world, which is just stop eating fructose. Yeah, that will take care of itself.
Yeah, but people can't. I mean they can theoretically they can.
But it's like it so it's a bit tricky.
It is saying of the bloke who's smoked it may just stop tomorrow. Yeah sure, sure, good theory. But I've been doing it forty years and I'm super fucking addicted and by the way, I love it.
Luckily, someone in this call has written a book called The Sweet Poison Quid Plan.
Oh well, when did you do that?
That tells you exactly how to do it?
All right? You got me there? Fifteen love Gillespie, You got me there. I'm fuck now. It's going so good too. I had my tail up, I had a bit of wind behind me. I was feeling cocky when you just come and then the best selling author in Australia comes up and fucking smashes it into me. All right, well, good point, well smarty pants, carry on.
What's that hell will we talk talking about?
You were just self promoting and I couldn't be proud of It's about time. What's that book called again?
Ah? The Sweet Poison Quick Plan.
Yeah there you go, you've got a sugar issue, but you've got a sugar issue, or in fact, any issue. Just buy one of his books. We's you know, he's doing it hard at the moment. Let's be honest.
We're even having to do Bloody Free podcast with Craig Harp.
Do people kind of wonder, like, what's happened to you? Do you get? Do they go? Why do you do that? It's like my community outreach project.
You know what, I don't care because I enjoy it.
Well, that is that is that is the main thing I think. All Right, So before we talk about something else, I want to talk to you about that rhymes with Coco pops. Wrap up the wrap up the biscuit conversation for.
Us, Like, Okay, I've said, I've said a few times, we go come back to white matters. Let's just give it the pod version of that. Okay, The more poly unsaturated fat you have in your diet, the more likely you are to have cancer, The more likely you are to have Alzheimer's, the more likely you are to have MND, the more likely you are to have Parkinson's, you name it. This is seriously dangerous stuff. We do not need to
overload it in our diet. The point of doing these guides like that cracker guide is if you want to eat crackers, it's possible to do it. It's possible, in fact, in almost every food category in a supermarket if you actually analyze it, go through and read the two hundred and sixty two labels of the brands of stuff in the supermarket. There's plenty of good stuff there. There's probably
twenty or thirty brands there that you'd happily eat. But you've got to do that work because they're not going to tell you.
When you write an article like that. Do you do that just for that article and just out of curiosity and just to put something good out, or do you do that with a view two getting that in your little mental refidex just on a filing cabinet in your brain and go, I'm probably going to use some of this in a book down the track. Or is it really just for here and now?
It starts with here and now. But yeah, I find doing it myself means that I know a lot about our food supply. You know, I could pay people to do this and then just look at the results. But I find doing it yourself and understanding exactly what food producers are using and what they're not using and how that's changing just helps me understand what I'm writing about it.
Yeah, yeah, all right, let's talk about So you also put out another little I don't know if this was an article.
Or just a pause just the post.
Yeah, just a post. And so there's an image of cocoa pops and you write, apparently you can have your cake and eat it to cocoa pops, which twenty four percent sugar, so a quarter sugar, and get four health stars from whoever hands out health stars, the Istralian government, I guess indirectly, but what I directly, Yeah, well what I loved was and this one, this version of cocoa Pops. It's got the promo on the front is seven essential
vitamins and minerals and it's got source of fiber. It doesn't say what, just says those words, and then it says twenty five percent less sugar, but nonetheless it's still one quarter sugar. Yep. And yeah, go on.
Yeah, So the normal full strength Cocoa Pops thirty two percent sugar and they only get two and a half stars. So the little monks at the labs at Cocoa pop Land have had a look at the formula used to calculate these health stars. He said, do you know what, if we chuck a multivitamin in there and really up the fiber count and take a little bit of the sugar off the top, we could get ourselves four stars. This is pretty much health food then, And to me,
that's the problem with the star system. It is a formula. It takes account of a lot of things which are frankly irrelevant, which is the fiber content, content, you know, things like that, and produces this thing, which is people are meant to take as a recommendation. Now, the trouble with that is I have found that if as a general rule you use it in reverse, it's actually pretty handy.
So but for example gets one star, margarine gets four or five stars, you know you'll find yourself veering towards a real food diet, as our ancestors ate, if you really just buy one star food and avoid with as much as possible anything that's got four or five stars, including this garbage.
How ironic, how funny, how interesting? I mean, there must be a couple of exceptions. But as a kind of a rough guide. What else off the top of your head, what else gets one or two stars from the government that you would think is five?
Well, anything, so anything. The star system bias is heavily against saturated fat because in the bad old days of nutrition, which is probably still pretty much with us, the dietitians say saturated fat is bad for you because they have this ridiculous theory that you know, fat makes you fat and saturated fat gives you heart disease. And neither of those things are true except in very particular circumstances, and neither of those things have ever been proven scientifically in
any kind of a study that anyone would respect. Nevertheless, it's the basis of our nutritional advice, and it's certainly the basis of the Star system. So anything that's got saturated fat in and it's going to do really badly, yogat's going to do badly, Cheese is going to do badly. You know, milk's going to do badly, except that they put an adjustment into the formula to sort of fix the fact that milk was doing badly even though it's
clearly not bad for you, you know. So, and things that will do well are things that food manufacturers can look at the formula and say, okay, well, how do we manipulate this. We reduce the saturated fat content. The best way to reduce saturated fat content is used something like soy oil or canola or something like that. Lower saturated fat, higher polyunsaturated fat. So they're actually doing the opposite of what the science says is good for us. They're putting
our food for polyunsaturated fats. They get more health stars by doing it because saturated fat is lower, and the formula rewards them for that. And the end result is that they recommend foods to us which are really very very bad for us. And that's why I say, if you must use the health stars, use them in reverse.
This is a whole other conversation. But some people would be listening to this saying, if all that is true. You know that butter is not bad, that you know steak cooked in you know olive oil is not bad, and that cheese is not terrible, and you know, then why is the government so slow to catch up to science? And like what what?
You know?
What?
For?
Most people now know that something close to whatever whatever you want to call it, a whole whole kind of food or paleo where you're eating lots of different meat and good oils and veggies and few fruits, and most people kind of, I think, understand that that's way more healthy than we once thought. Why is it still so? Why are we trapped in the food pyramid, you know, low fat, high sugar thinking. Why does it take so
long to change? Is it just because of the leverage that companies and organizations have in terms of controlling the market and influencing the government or what is it?
It's a couple of things. It's that which is there's a lot of money on the line here. The two biggest supply industries in food sugar and seed oils. So the big big worldwide conglomerates control both of those and they have a strong vested interest in not having those markets damaged. But I guess more importantly on the ground is I don't know who said it tiful, no doubt
know it and can look it up. But you know, nutrition science or science improves one funeral lot of time, and that's never ever more so than in nutrition science. What they mean is that you have to wait for the previous generation that had built their careers spouting that nonsense to move on before anyone's prepared to stand up and say, you know what, this is what the ex science actually says.
Yes.
Yes, people who've spent forty years building a career telling you that saturated fat will kill you are hardly going to decide five minutes before they retire that oh, actually I was wrong the whole time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well when I did my first degree, which wasn't that lot, well it was twenty years ago, but even then, that was in two thousand to two thousand and three. That's what we were taught, and it was already it'd already been kind of disproven in or disproved in some circles. But yeah, part of that.
Trial is it's never actually been proven. The problem is that when you actually look at the science on this stuff, there were some guesses made, some very big trials funded in the sixties and seventies in the United States, and they failed to prove anything and didn't get published. And so it's not you know, the embarrassment of doing a massive trial, wasting millions of dollars of taxpayers money, and then failing to prove the theory you set out to prove.
Overcame everybody, and they didn't publish them anyway. What has happened, though.
Is there's been some really good work, particularly out of the National Institutes of Health in the United States, where they have gone back and relooked at the data from these trials and concluded, actually, this is what they should have published, and things like people on saturated fat diets had significantly greater all cause mortality as well as significantly greater mortality from heart disease.
It's no wonder they didn't publish it. Yeah.
Yeah, there's an article I've just open up. It's called ansel Keys the Greatest Scant. So he was the guy, he was the head researcher in that thing that you're talking about, and it was originally it was either twenty one or twenty eight countries that they looked at, and they ended up wittling seven. That's right, because it was either fourteen or twenty one of the country's bays.
Convenient.
Yeah, contradicted, completely contradicted his hypothesis, and so he just chucked out all the data that didn't suit him and went, oh, we did a seven country study, you know, and forgot to tell everyone about all the other countries that didn't kind of fit in his fucking narrative.
Yeah, it has been realalyzed, and when you put all those countries back in, what you get is nothing, get no correlation between saturated fat intake and heart disease death. And that would have been a bit disappointing to publish at the time. So I guess he didn't.
Well, especially when I mean, I'm trying to remember this, but I'm pretty sure his research was funded obviously, I mean obviously it was funded funded by people who wanted a certain outcome.
So well, not the least him. He and his wife created an empire of out of selling the Mediterranean diet. So the Key's Mediterranean Diet, I think probably made him a very wealthy man as well as his day job of being a senior health advisor to the US government. And his Mediterranean diet really proceeded on the basis of that seven country study, essentially saying, look, the people who don't have heart disease are the people who live around
the Mediterranean, and we're going to copy their diet. Except he didn't really bother trying to find out what their diet was. He just made up a largely plant based diet. With a bit of olive oil in it said, that's a Mediterranean diet.
Of course he did. Oh, Gallespo, you're a gem. So everyone Tiff is going to put a link to Glespo's sub stack, kind of little extravaganza that he's doing there. So he typically puts up one article a week and maybe.
Another two or three at the moment, go on hot.
At the moment he's on fire, he's on follow him.
You know.
He doesn't get a lot of attention, especially at home. His wife fresh airs him, his old news. His kids don't acknowledge him anymore. So if you could give him a bit of love, that'd be great. And his son, who's better looking and smarter, is currently hogging the media spotlight. Good for him.
Yes he will again too in a couple of weeks apparently, so stay tuned for that one.
He's killing it. He's killing it. Will say goodbye fare but yet again, mate, thank you, appreciate you, See you later.