I'll get a Tim Craig, Anthony Harper. What's your middle name? Mate, mazee? What's your middle name?
Ricardo?
Andrew Ricardo? Wow? Maeh, up there, up there in the thriving metropolis, meet down here in Melbs. It is the you project. A shes us Hi, mate, how are you good?
We're recording.
We're just I'm telling everyone what I did.
I've just thrown Harps under his own typ bus. We were in flow about ten minutes into it. I don't know whether it was a mistake or whether I was just mowfully, but Harps when jeez, mate, sorry, can we start again?
I haven't pressed record? You looked mortified. I just laughed.
I said, let's go again.
Do you know what the dumbest thing that Melissa did was she gave me control over when the recording starts and stops, And like, why would you give me that much power? You know, I'm an idiot, you know, I just.
Press the red button, don't touch anything else.
I don't want to ask you the same questions that I asked you the first time round, So I'll just I'll just start with this. How's your twenty twenty four been? What did you learn are you Are you exhausted? Are you excited? Are you a bit of both?
Let's answer that reverse. I am crawling, dragging myself like got white on my fingers, is just pulling myself to the line.
Mate.
In fact, I caught up with one of the clients I trained this morning of training for a number of years, is it see Over Big Company. I met him at Bondi Beach. You know, you're a personal trainer. You're never not a personal trainer. So even when I do work with my exec clients, I'd still go for a walk, throwing a few push ups, a few cheneis. And I
saw him at the beach. I'll work with him for ten years, and you know, there's his public face and he's a well known person, and then here's he's personally. He's a good guy. And I looked at him, I could see he was just tired. So I rocked up to him and I just went nothing, I just g I hugged him. I said, this looks like exactly what you need to see. Yeah, I do, but probably not from you, and not while everyone's watching. He hugged me and he just laughed. He said, yeah, I think I
did need that. I think that just sums up the center. But we all need a bloody good hug because I was reflecting on this after our conversation ten years ago. You'd remember this December early December, the engine would stop, like for you and I when we put our keynote hats on, you wouldn't do many keynotes in December. I did four last week ups, like who are these people still doing keynotes? A couple of weeks before Christmas? So
we're now working right towards the end. And I blame a lot of the COVID because we're much more tech set up at home, so we don't have that natural downtime at the start of the day. And then if you do go to the office, you've already been working on. You take a few hours, and then we're getting back on at night. So I just find there's this residual fatigue now everyone is technical term wrecked.
Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting. So I don't know if I've ever unpacked this with you, but i'd love your thoughts. Right, So we it's a little bit nine nineties and nineteen eighties now. But work life balance, the idea of work life balance theoretically is like, if you work this much and you don't work this much, there's this much at work, this much not at work, and there's it's almost like there's a formula or an equation.
And I hate the term.
I vomit.
And someone goes, we need a work life balance program.
Yeah, I hate it, and I'm like, yeah, here's the problem though, or works not equal and you could do ten hours of something you fucking hate, and I do fifty hours of something I love, and your job's worse for you than mine. In fact, my job's good for me. It actually energizes me, stimulates me, grows me, develops me. And I'm doing fifty or sixty hours, and through your lens you might go, oh my god, that is way too much. But ten hours, Well, imagine having a job
that's only ten hours. It's like, yeah, well it depends.
I'd rather do seventy hours where I'm engaged and feel like I'm growing and stretching and get tired. There's times in all of our lives where you push it. The original research I saw on that was back I had hair. Harps were in the nineties, Like you know when they show Homer Simpson with hair and everyone just last year got those two little strands. But the research is on work life balance, and they were researchers and I under underscore that, but they weren't pracademics like you are practical.
They were researchers in a lab. So they said, hey, we've got the data. You should sleep eight hours. How many of your audience sleeps eight hours a night? You should work eight hours and then recreate eight hours. It's absolutely setting you. There's times during coming into holidays, mate, I'm not going to work much at all. I'm pulling the roller door down for three three weeks. But there's
times and you're the same. We bang out sixty seven hour weeks and we love what we do and you just get on with it.
Hey, but how do you do?
How are you? You're asking everybody else how are you?
Where are you? I am good, I'm like all the stuff that people would typically ask about work and UNI and study and all good. I've just got a very close friend who's really crooked at the moment. So that's taking a bit of my internal kind of energy, of my emotional and psychological attention, I guess. So I'm I'm trying to be really supportive there. But other than that, I'm good. I'm I feel surprisingly calm and not exhausted.
It might hit me, but I tend to I don't really kind of have a big end of year assessment new year's strategy. Not that that's bad, I guess I get a little bit more reflective. But you and I are going to talk about, you know, almost having a bit of a look at the year in review and maybe setting us up ourselves up for another year. And this is the time of the year for a lot of people where there is introspection and reflection and some kind of I guess almost assessment where we try to.
I think sometimes when we get away from work, whether that's literally or metaphorically or geographically away, I think we can get a level of perspective that we can't always achieve when we're in the middle of whatever it is. We're typically in the middle.
Of absolutely and a nice segue to get us back on track. We're like Daryl and Dale and the Castle. How's Buck, Dad? Yeah, he's okay. Sometimes we talk for hours. Yes, the power of self reflection. I've done this the last five or six years. Personally, I do it with all my clients and we were chatting aback getting on and doing something before the end of the year. I thought this would be a really good one to do. It's
a bit like driving a car, is the analogy. Eighty five ninety percent of your vision is looking out the front window and to the side, and they go about five to ten percent in the review and maybe five and the side mirrors. So the point of the analogy is, let's look back in the review mirror on the year that's been and yeah, most of you are feeling tired, like my client this morning, need a bit of a hug.
But there's some good research on this. So when you look at goal achievement, the process of setting achieving goals, but most of it looks moving forward. In the last few years, there's been more around this accomplishment focus about reviewing and reflecting your goals. And when I dug into this a little bit a few years ago, I went, hey,
this is not new. There was a dude back in nineteen thirty three called John Dewey who wrote about how you should reflect and it bridges the gap between experience and self awareness. And now we have people doing PhDs around all this stuff, and you go, my god, this is ninety years ago. Dewey also observed how serious and careful consideration leads to personal growth. So I think to honor the great man John Dewey. I've done knowing, but he sounds like a great man. And to look at
that goal accomplishment theory. I've been at risk of this over the years, half where I've had a year and going right, bang, let's bag it, let's go and have a break, and I'm going to come out next year fresh and go again. What I've found personally and what I've found with my clients is that process of looking in the review mirror. It does a couple of things. It just gives you some time to catch up and
make meaning of the year you've had. Two You then can process yeah, wow, there's a bunch of areas in my life, and we'll take people through a framework where I've absolutely overachieved. I just haven't slowed down and caught up. But there's also a bunch of areas I'm either not happy with or there's a little bit more I can do, which can then help you set up for the following year. So I've found this activity really beneficial.
Yeah, before we do that, I want to ask you, like, I don't know if we've had this chatter before, but one of the things I often ask audiences is about, you know, whether or not they think they're open minded and in general terms objective, And everyone goes, yeah, fuck yeah, super open minded. I'm super objective.
I'm not closed minded.
Who said that? Who told you? Yeah, that's right? And you know, then I explained, I said, well, look that you know. Your version of the world is a subjective version that's not good or bad or broken. That's human. I'm the same. Am I open minded? Not really? Am I totally objective? Nowhere near it? Would I like to be?
Do I like the idea, yes I do? But the reality is I've got preexisting ideas and beliefs and biases and bullshit and issues and programming, And in the middle of all of that, I create my own reality, which I'm well aware as just mine. But when we are reflecting and looking at our year, world's longest fucking set up question, by the way, hurry up ups. But when we are see that self awareness, when we are looking back, how do we find kind of a level of objectivity or perspective which is.
Empowering rather than you know, convenient if I go a layer deep from that is part of that question as well. How do you do this and be really honest and authentic and not bullshit yourself so you're doing a happy shait. How I have done that. I've done this with my team. I've said to everyone earlier this week, let's do this and let's share it, and we shared it in our staff meeting as well. That was a way of everyone to be open and honance. So if you've got a coach,
you could do that with them. Pretty hard to do with your partner sometimes because they'll have a view, a pretty firm view. So as you're leading into Christmas, if your window of tolerance the psychologists will talk about in relationships, you need a big window of tolerance. If the window is closed and it's boarded up, I maybe wouldn't do this with your partner until you've had a bit of time.
I think the main thing would be to share it with somebody else on that Sometimes are the people you know best, they know you too well, so it's that level of connectivity. So that's how I'd answer that is if you find that sometimes you bullshit yourself and say the stuff you want to because you I don't know if you think you're being marked on this. I'd share it with someone and say, hey, here's what I reckon. What do you think am I aligned with how you see the way I show up?
Yeah? And I think you need to be extraordinarily fucking courageous and authentic to do that properly, because people who say they want feedback generally they don't want feedback. They just want praise, they want endorsement. It's like, oh, do you really want to know how you come? Do you really want to know what I think? Do you really
you know? And it's like, oh, it's some of the shit that I've got a few people that have given me like real feedback over the years, and in the moment I didn't fucking love it at all, but part of me knew they were right. How do we find that person? For a start? Because I feel like a lot of people will tell you what they think you want to hear, which isn't particularly value to you unless it's absolutely true. If it is absolutely true, that's good.
But you know, sometimes it's like, sometimes the things I need to do and not the things I want to do. Sometimes the things I need to hear. Are not the things that I'm comfortable with. Any tips for us on the giving or getting side of that equation.
Yeah, I reckon. It all comes back to trust. You've got to have a bed rock of trust. It's someone you know, someone you've got a connection with, and then trust builds that psychological safety. So if you have that and this is not hey, harps are on and off site, you think Terry's a bit of an asshole. So we're going to get you guys to go and build an egg cup catcher. Hey, now, your mates, that's not too bad. That's a fucking horrior like you've been there, I've seen it. Well,
let's do another one another day. The worst team building activities ever, I reckoned. You could put that out to your audience and get some good ideas. So it's not that, but it's actually, hey, let's have a robust conversation and if you've got that bank of trust, and Brene Bras says it beautifully, trust is like a marble jar. It can take a long time to fill up the jar.
One swoop can knock it over. So the person you would be looking for is someone that you know, someone that you've built up that marble jar of trust for a period of time. But you pointed on something really interesting. Every person I work with, every coaching client at the start, I'll we do a whole medical bloods, all that stuff. When we go deep with them, I go, look, how do you like feedback? And they look back me be a little bit O, what do you mean? I said, well,
do you like feedback? Because I've spent twenty five years in the world of a late sport and feedback is immediate, honest, open. Sometimes people don't like that. Ah no, mate, I love feedback. You know. I work in an executive team and then you flex it and then you give them feedback and you look like you've slapped them and go, look are you okay? No one's ever spoken to me like that in my life. I said, you told me you like really open, honest feedback. Said yeah, I've had nothing like that.
And then underneath you, Paul, oh that's goods. You're the top of an organization chart and your feedback is mostly what you want to hear. So getting the right feedback from someone you trust, but then also being open to it one thing to say, hey, I want feedback, but then are you going to do anything about it? Yeah, Yeah, that's that's the thing.
It's like, it's having a real insight into and not in a self loading way. I think this is important. I think some people think that when you go introspective and self reflective that it's like finding your faults. No, for me, it's not about that. It's really just about me understanding me and me, you know, and to the you know, to the topic of my PhD, which is trying to understand how others understand you or perceive you
or experience you. You know, when I explain this, when I go you know, in corporate land and other spaces where I talk about you know, metaperception and theory of mind and meta accuracy and all of these things about understanding how others think broadly and then specifically how others see me or experience me. And you know, so many times I've been told so much shit about me that is really quite somewhere between a bit uncomfortable and fucking brutal.
But at the end of the day, I think, well, I think, look, if that's true or not, I still need to know it, because if ten twenty people think I'm a fucking idiot because of this. But I'm not a fucking idiot, but enough people think it, then one, maybe I'm a fucking idiot. And two, at the very least, I need to understand that I'm doing or saying something which comes across as I'm an idiot. So and it's
not about being a people pleaser. But if you move through the world with zero awareness of how other people experience you, or experience this moment in time, or experience this conversation or this situation, and part of your job is dependent on interpersonal connection, well you're fucked. I give you a quick.
Story and to give you an example on how this can work. I used to work at a consulting firm and one of the big leaders there said, to be made, can you come and watch me speak? I said, yeah, where.
Are you on?
He told me he was at this conference and he was representing the firm for a client industry forum. And I watched him speak and then in Craig Harper language, he was a fucking train wreck. It was horrible, like it was all slide, slide, slide, and then let me tell you this, and here's there was no vulnerability, no storytelling, no connection and I said to him, okay, so you want some feedback and to understand the hierarchy and a
consulting firm. If I've been here for a long time, fifteen twenty years, even though I was a partner, I've called a junior burger. Because I'm a lateral higher. It's almost an alien. So I asked him for permission. I said, look, you've asked me for feedback. I've taken some notes. Now can I give you feedback as someone who's got fifteen or twenty years domain expertise as a speaker, not as someone who's just joined the firm. Yeah.
Absolutely.
And I hear him and he'd given me permission, and we get on well. And he looked at me after and he said, I've never been given feedback like that in my life. So I've got two questions for your Number one is how are you feeling? And he said it's horrible. He said, I feel vulnerable, I feel exposed, and it's horrible. I said, what is your learning? He said, my learning is God. I wish i'd done this years ago. He said, I've been speaking like that for twenty years.
I said, you're killing me. He said, not twenty years I said, can you imagine how many people have walked away? Because I said to him, you come across as a bit of a dick because all your stories start with I. There was no interconnectivity, no turn and talk. How about we just have a drop in intensity, turn talk to the next you, person next to you? How do you show up? So there's no connectivity, I said, you've only had people in your chorus telling you are you doing
a great job because of the organization chart. That was a really good example in life. I see this guy. I saw him when I was overseas recently. He said, you remember that time made? How could I forget? I said, it looked like you looked like I've never seen you look before. He said, yeah, because I've never felt like that, probably since school. And I didn't get picked because he said, yeah, I wasn't great at sport because I am a bit
of an intellect. And that was just a beautiful example when you ask for feedback and you've got that connectivity it. I did it from a place of care and compassion, and I just said to me, if I don't give you this feedback and you don't do anything on it, you're going to have a lot of people walk away and that go, you're a bit of a dick, But I know you. You're actually a good guy. Anyway, fast track what have been now six years later, presenting in
a totally different way. He's engaging, he's asking questions, he's actually thinking about the audience and how his message is going to land, rather than just giving a slide deck verbal triage and just spraying everyone with a bunch of slides.
Yeah, that's a beautiful story, man, because it's like you pulled back the curtain and you showed him something that only you could show him, or only somebody who had your awareness and understanding and integrity could show him. But that's whether he knew it or not, that was the truth. And you pulled back the curtain and showed him the truth. And that good on him, though, I mean good on him for taking that on board and then doing something
with that. And I think when you like, if you do it the right way, even if it's really direct. I tell people regularly, I don't care about your feelings for the next five minutes. I don't I care about your health for the next five decades. That's what I care about. If you get a bit upset called I don't care. It doesn't mean I don't care about you, but I don't give a fuck about your emotional state for the next two or three minutes. It's not my job in life to make you feel okay. That's not
my purpose. That's your job, right, or maybe I don't know anyone not mine. My job is to help you step in, to see what is, to see reality, to to I can get your hands dirty, to you know, look behind the curtain that I'm pulling back for you. Because this might not be what you want to hear. But from where I stand, and I'm a lot more objective about you than you. You know, this is this is true. You're not accidentally eating all that shit. You're
choosing it. This is You're not you don't look or function the way you do because of some fucking factor that's out of your control. Right. This is you. And I'm not saying you're a bad human. I'm not saying you're terrible or flawed or broken. I'm saying that you are doing shit which is essentially high level self sabotage. Now I can tell you poor you, and I can give you a metaphoric or a literal BackRub and I can fucking join in the pity party or I can
go No, that's bullshit. And if you don't open your eyes, you're going to be in the same place or worse in one, two, five years. And if you surround yourself with a fucking fan club and people pleases, which is what you're currently doing, it's gonna it's going to end bad.
You're just going to have more people at your funeral, and your funeral is going to come a lot earlier the premise with what you were talking about with your clients. And I know you do this. You're similar to me, like people might. Ah, he's been a bit of a preck, but we're a friendly preck.
Right.
It's done with heart and it's done with compassion when you have permission. So even though this guy had said, hey, come and watch me, I watched him. I made the notes and then I said, all right, do you want me to like, can we just strip the hierarchy and can I just really give it to you the permission? So he'd asked me to go there, and then I framed it again so he'd put in the place that
I could be open with him and talk. I think that's really important that we all have people around us like that Harps, because otherwise you can start to believe the bullshit right, and you're in a bubble. I reckon that it'd be horrible to be going along for years and never get feedback, and combine that with no self reflection, you're just going to be bouncing around pissing somebody laugh hundred percent.
I don't know if I've told you this, I might have bet my audience, but bear with the audience. It's nearly two thousand episodes, so there's a bit of repetition unavoidable. But one of my stories is I used to one hundred years ago do vic Fit Bickfit lecturing. So the fitness industry courses SIRT three and four boys and Girls, and one of the you know, we always had feedback sheets. That feedback was mostly positive. I say, mostly, I'm smiling.
I've heard this story.
Oh yeah, but the common you know, like not not like seventy percent, but maybe fifteen percent, was you're scary, you're intimidating. And so I walk into the class with those feedback sheets and go, who fucking wrote this? No? I didn't. I wanted to just for a joke. For context, you're a bodybuilder.
When I first met you, you're still a big, strong lab Now you were Jack's I can imagine you what the front?
All right? Who fucking wrote this up? Now I've got your fucking feedback sheets right in front of me. All right, these people wait for me after glass, there's none of that. But it's like when I first got it and I'm like, oh, okay, they're a bit precious. And then I'm like, oh, he's another one. Oh he's another one. Oh here's another one. And then I ended up talking to Tara, who was working with me in that space, and she's like, well, yeah, of course. And I'm like, what do you mean? What
do you mean? She's like, well, you know, you're intimidating. I'm like, I'm not intimidating, and she's like, you're you're intimidating. She goes, you're a sweetheart, but you're scary to people who don't. I'm like, how am I scary? And then she unpacked thirty seven ways I'm scary. I'm like, all right, So that just helped me, you know, because that was never my intention, Like.
How do you temper that? How did you change that. So after that feedback, did you do anything at the start and then I'll tell you funny sorry about a lady who's really changed perception at the start of the presentation.
Yeah, I think I asked a lot more questions and I was just I realized that I was, you know, I mean, I'm talking to students who don't know, you know, a bicep from a carbohydrate, right, or inflection from extension or whatever. Right. So I'm I probably I may have spoken a little over their head. I don't think I did, but yeah, I just I kind of in a nice way, dumbed it down, softened it, made it more interactive, tried to consciously be a little bit more doory teller, a
little bit more fun, a little bit less. You know, my way or the highway.
Do you know a lady named nin James no means in America now she started on the keynote circuit in Australia. Gotta be fifteen. I think I was at the Ausy Creek to him, that's more than that to be be nearly twenty years ago. And I saw it mean and double E N James j A M E. S So NaN's this little pocket rocket. We're at this HR conference in Brisbane. She was the opening keynote and I was second, so I got in, thought I'll watch Nane. I've heard
purchase a good speaker. She gets on stage, she goes, Hello, I'm Nane James, and I've got a squeaky voice and big tits, So get over it. There's there's eight hundred and nine hundred people in Brisbane hysterical. Her opening line was, Hello, my name is nine James. I've got big tits and a squeaky voice. Now get on with that, now, mate. She did have a very squeaky voice.
Yeah, I knew what. I knew that was coming.
I could see your little giggle. But she had she she had, she had, she had both. She was spot on. But what it did, because I'm sitting at the back before she did this, I'm going, my god, she's she got big boobs, very big boobs. And she started to speak helo and I'd heard she had a squeaky voice. But when she did that, I then just totally giggled and then forgot about it. And not once during the rest of that presentation did I think she had a
big voice or squeaky Yeah. So She totally disarmed people at the start, So I learned a lot from that. So I think given feedback, Yeah, if you can do something in the first thirty sixty ninety seconds that gets people engaged or amused or laughing, it's like a super power. It was an icebreaker. It was a hey, don't just sit there and start thinking about physical characteristics on my voice.
It was beautiful, absolutely beautiful the way she did it, and it came from she'd obviously had feedback that some people were just thinking about that, so she totally cut it out by running at it at the start. So she was aware enough and she'd had feedback from people and could process that and realized that that was going to make a difference by bringing that up at the start.
That's so funny that she would get the voice. I get.
But who's giving you feedback about your breasts now? Before any on the sheet. Let's put context. This is twenty or so years ago, so I think you could say that without people going, oh, you can't say that. So the world is a little bit more politically correct now. But she did a beautiful introduction and then just took away from any distraction from her presentation. And she's a wonderful presenter.
Now i'd be doing you and me and this service if I didn't talk about the fact that for our listeners that were coming towards the end of the year. I think we spoke about that in our first unrecorded attempt of this show, and so I guess I want to just hear your thoughts and ideas and perhaps strategies for our listeners who are thinking about, you know, reflecting on the year that was planning potentially for the year to come. And you know, we know different things work
for different people. There's no five step fucking plan that's universally brilliant. But what do you want to tell our listeners that are you know, thinking about the next kind of twelve months on planet them?
Let's start with Charles Dickens. So I want to try and sound a lot smarter than I am, harp. So I've got a Charles Dickens, quite reflect upon your blessings, of which every man and woman has plenty, not on your last misfortunes, of which we all have some.
For years.
I'd get to this time with you and go right, and I'm going to have a holiday freshen up and my goals are this year I'm gonna And for a lot of people it's the same thing year after year. Get fit, lose weight, stop smoking, learned French, spend all the time with the kids. And we know fifty percent of goals after two weeks are thrown out. By the end of January it's eighty to eighty five percent I've
thrown out a couple of years ago. I started doing this with a few clients and they thought, jeez, this is really good. Let's look in the rearview mirror and how have you gone this year? So, no matter how tired you are, just to spend a bit of time. I'll send you the worksheet. You can put that on your show notes so people can download it. So I've just got a little sheety review mirror, the review mirror likeble and there's eight areas. So why don't we pick one or two of these? You and I can do
it together as well. So the eight areas are you reflect on how have you gone on your work slash career? How have you gone around learning and development?
So what have.
You learned and grown? And it's not just work related, how are you going with your finances? And I find those first two really lead to better finances if you're focusing on it. How are you going with community and spirituality? And spirituality I don't mean just religion, but spirituality that you're connected to a purpose or other things greater than you. Health and fitness, family and relationships. And I've added too, So they're the six that you see a lot of these.
You know you'd look at the goal wheel. So work slash, career, L and D, financewers, community, health and fitness, and relationships. I've added passion and play. All of us have a little kid inside, and so often you get the end of the year and if it's been all work, no play makes people very dull. And I've added recovery because I just can't help it in the work that I do. Very similar to you. Stress is awesome, but you've got to build in a recovery strategy. So they're the eight.
And what I get.
Everyone to do is just to give yourself a subjective ranking on it. And then if you've got that friend that we're talking about, that trust and psychological safety, I reckon get them to do it independently and then match the sheets together. So just go zero to ten on each of those eight areas where are you at? So let's pick one, Harps, you can do one, and then
maybe you can flip it on me. And then rather than just giving yourself a number, okay, do that, but then put four or five bullet points underneath each one, and again the focus on this for everyone looking back in the rearview mirror. What has worked? Don't don't do the hay, I need to work on this. It's hey, what are you really proud of? Or what have you achieved?
All right, So I'm going to go I'm going to pick I could you pick one for me? You pick one for me? Because I feel like, because whatever, I could pick any of those and I've still got work to do.
I'm going to pick a random one because it's easy to go, work and L and D because I know a lot about that. What what do you do for hobbies? Passions and play? So let's go.
Okay, okay, yeah, great, So you want me to start or no?
Yeah? So give yourself a score first of all out of ten.
So I'm going to give myself an eight, which is very braggy, make brag start, but can I can I give you my all right? So I'm going to give you. I reckon this is the trickiest one. Community and spirituality. That's what I'm giving you, done right right, So for me, I'm going to start right so passion and play. I
talk about this a lot. I talk about strategic fun, which sounds unfun, but you know, one of the things I ask people when I'm coaching, which especially when you're coaching a fifty year old bloke, can you go, so, do you like having fun? And they look at you like You've just asked them the stupidest thing of all time, and they go, what do you mean? I go, fucking do you like fun? Do you like laughing at silly? Do you like fun? And laughed? Yeah, I'm like cool,
So what's your fun plan or strategy? They're like what, I'm like, what's your So you've got a business plan, you've got a health plan, you've got a fucking career plan? You got I go, tell me about fun? And it's like there's no real So I like and not that it needs to be, you know, fucking operationalized on a
daily basis with it. I'm laughing at ten and I'm laughing at twelve, and I'm laughing at two, but just so that we're perhaps integrating stuff into our day to day, which is there's no point to it other than fucking fun. There not creating any measurable outcome. It's not about a KPI or you know, maybe the KPI's laughter. Maybe the KPI is dopamine. Maybe the KPI is fucking getting a cuddle or playing with your dog or you know. So every day I train with one of my best mates,
and that's not some days. That's three hundred and sixty five days of the year unless one of us is away seven days a week. Unless someone's away every day, that's amazing every day, every day. So we would probably see each other because I travel a bit, he does a bit, but I'd probably see him three hundred and twenty days a year. And I would say our training
to talking shit ratio is thirty seventy. Right, So we talk shit, we have fun, we hang out, we spot each other, We talk about the fucking meaning of life and silly shit. He sends me fucking ten videos a day that I wouldn't want to watch, right, I did that today already I trained with another friend as well. I rode my motorbike to the gym. I've got a bunch of bikes. I rode one of my bikes to
the gym, which for me is fun. And because I live eight hundred meters from the beach, I walk to the beach every day and I I just it's just me time, and it's it's not fun per se, but it's it's I guess that kind of morphs into recovery. But for me just having because I'm like you, my life is intense. I'm with a lot of people, like I told you today, I'm doing three three podcasts. I've
had meetings, I've had UNI stuff. I've had coaching a couple of people, which is very cognitively intense where this is not, and some people with some real issues. So me being a fuck wit and funny isn't appropriate. So you've got to put on the serious hat and be a proper grown up, you know. And then so I might have eight or nine or ten hours a day some days which have very intense and very very cognitively and emotionally expensive, but I need to offset that with
some complete bullshit. So and I'm really good at doing that. I don't and I don't say I'm good at many things because I am not. But that the proof of that is that I rarely get stressed or anxious, like rarely. I sleep like a fucking champion, don't get sick, I don't get sick much much would But yeah, I don't get sick much. I don't feel anxiety. I don't feel stressed.
And I think that's part of just like I've been choosing hardship for forty years because I've said this to maybe you before, but I've definitely said it twenty times on this show. Because when I was growing up, mate, I wasn't super fucking great at anything. Like all my friends were either great athletes or great academics or great this, great creatives or great whatever. I wasn't in it any of those groups. I was like mister five out of
ten and everything. And so for me, my mediocrity became my platform to resilience and strength and work ethic and grinding, and then that became my superpower, like just my ability to keep going like that that's kind of set me up. So that's so I think things that would stress. I spoke about this the other day, like when my gym, when the guy was talking about that. I trained today I think you know the story. He died five years ago at the gym.
Do you know that story had a heart attack.
Yeah, yeah, so he had. He actually had a cardiac arress so his hearts. There was no heart attack per se, but his art, of course stopped beating. And I don't know why, but in the middle of that, I was completely calm, and everyone else in the gym was freaked the fuck out. Nobody would help, nobody would come, and I don't know why, but for whatever reason, I'm very thankful. I don't really get stressed very much.
You know, it's relative because you've stressed yourself a lot. That's called resistance training, it's called presenting, it's called starting multiple podcasts, it's called starting a heap of businesses. The biggest misknowment of people go, I need to get rid of stress in my life. No, you don't. You need to have short, sharp, regular hits of stress, and then you need to downregulate and chill the fudge out physically
and psychologically. And that's how you get your growth. And it's not just growth in the gym, it's growth cognitively, growth in your relationships. Like I heard someone say recently, oh, Yeah, there's stress in our relationship with God. If you've got kids, you've got a partner, you're trying to function in your head let alone someone else's. There's always going to be stress.
Well what's the drop? So you know what?
I love asking you that question on the spot. I didn't send you this this list before. You just go on bang bang bang bang bang. So you build hobbies, passion play into your life, and you've obviously worked out a way to do what you do and a bang out three hundred podcast in a year, crazy mofo, because you've got a way to down regulate. So I've got one other question on that, and this is this is
for the learning for your audience as well. How did you feel when you rattled off your answer on that eight out of ten all those areas So in that process of self reflecting, get a bit better on me.
Yeah, I feel content. I don't feel like there's no arrogance orry ego in that I'm I'm quietly like for me. Of course, I know that I'm not objective, but I think I am pretty good in terms of self assessment. I've spent five years studying it as my PhD and other things but i'm you know, when I do a gig, I finished the gig, and I'll talk to Melissa, who runs my life, and she'll go, how was it? And I'll literally give her a number, and it's an out
of ten assessment. And if I've crushed, it might be an eight and a half or a nine, or if I was dog shit, which I'm not too often dogshit these days, but it could be a four. But if I was just like okay, but I wasn't super happy, it'll be a six, you know. And so that when I say I'm an eight or an eight and a half in this, there's no real arrogance attached to that. That's just my my experience of it. But there are other things on that list that I wouldn't give myself that score.
Side note, I'm going to start giving myself a score out of ten. Every presentation that's a that's a gold one. So pick one or two others where you don't score as well.
I would say, not work, but more business development, like I am, I'm shit at I'm shit at business development. I just because like I don't I'm not driven to make lots of go I make good money anyway, and I'm very grateful and there's no ego in that. It's like and for a long time I didn't make a lot of dough and then I ended up with personal training centers that was more just great timing than great
business skills because I literally had the only one in Australia. Right, So if you've got the only one of something, then you fail. You're fucking terrible. Right. So you remind me of Frank Walker National Tiles. If all you do is tiles.
He's a billionaire. Frank Walker, is he? Yeah, he's literally a billionaire. We're trying to get into conference entrepreneur conference I'm involved in, and yeah, they said to me he is literally he's cleaned up and that's not his voice. He did his first radio ad. It's like it's Frank Walker. I said, no, I just got to be something different. So it's like Frank Walker National Tiles apparently speaks nothing like it. It was just a caricature they created with the radio station.
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting.
Sorry, I digress.
I just think for me, like business development all that stuff, like I end up like this. This is I mean, this is a very little example. I shouldn't even say this but fuck it, I'll throw myself under the bus. So yesterday I coached this lady who for her to be coached by me is not easy, it's not cheap. So she'd I guess saved or whatever it's like, and booked in a session with me. And I did a session with her, and it was good, it was productive,
she enjoyed it. But we got to the end of the time, we got to the end of the hour, and she's just there was so much more to go through. And I knew that it would take her another you know whatever, that she couldn't afford another session next week or probably next month. And she was crying and it was like it was very emotional. But I knew that I'm one of the few people in the world I guess that she felt comfortable to just because she trusts me.
But we're not friends. She trusts me, but we're not family. Going to share anything that she shared, right, so it's a safe space. And she was just open and vulnerable and honest and a little bit fractured. And I couldn't, Andrew, I couldn't go. Her name's not Donna, but I couldn't go. Okay, Donna, Well, time's up. Have a great life, you know, all the best over an now, Craig Harper, you would.
Be there do it. You would have been there hour knowing.
You No, no, I can't. And I had an appointment. I said, all right, I said, this is what I want you to do. I said, January. First week in January, send me an update, tell me what's going on. I gave him my phone number, which is a big no, no, you don't fucking do that. I gave him my phone number. I said, send me an SMS. I said, don't be the crazy person who rings me at night drunk. Don't don't do that or just block you, but send me a message. And I said, a day or two after that,
we'll do another one of these. And she's like, oh, but I go no cost, And she's like, really, you know so and I know that's not a big deal, but I I you know, I for me, it's a real dichotomy. I know I've got to make money. I know I've got to build a business and brand. Could I fucking I can't say well, I can say no
because I have to. But yeah, so sometimes I'm I'm probably less entrepreneurial than actually serves me from a business sense, but in terms of my my values and my internal sat nav, I'm pretty comfortable with it.
Can I dig into that a little bit? Yeah, when I heard you talk about inadverted Cooma's Donna, that's that's the right thing to do. I do Similarly, you don't coach and teach and open studios and work with sport. We've had a similar career trajectory. You've had much much bigger businesses and personal training. But we like people, so we're not assholes. But there's a little bit of that where I go, Okay, let's tease out, because dichotomis thinking is I've got to be nice and I can't make money.
So it's not either or Either I'm really nice to Donna, or I'm a capitalist pig and I'm an asshole and I drive around get picked up in a Bentley and I hyphenate the surname.
Harper Smith. That's a great half A smile.
Smile is much better. So to me, it would be not either or, it's and so how can I help Donna? And so if you're saying on your BD your business development is not as great. You are great at storytelling, You're great at building a tribe in a community. You are great at having authentic, open conversations. You know, I'm one of many regulars who come on and have learned a lot, and we want to drink the harps kool aid as well as be ourselves. But how do you
get out of your own way? That would be my thoughts, mate, Like there's a U two song I love, get out of your own way? How do you do what you do best? And then maybe get someone to come in and be your business development manager and go turn this shit upside down, treat me as a product, and just commodetize it.
This is what I'm like. If I've got I've got a workshop, like I did a workshop this week, two nights, three nights ago, Tuesday, and I don't know, fuck Tuesday or Wednesday anyway, Wednesday night, I did a workshop, so two nights ago. And this is how bad I am. I've got a bunch of things coming up. I don't want to talk about those things that I've got coming up to the group because I don't want to look like I'm selling them anything I don't want to be.
I don't want to. I don't want them to think that I ran this cheap workshop which was twenty seven dollars fifty or twenty seven bucks to the general public online, so it was online. I didn't want them to think that this was a carrot to get him in the door. And look now that you hear everybody, but ah, you know which it wasn't that. But I hate that, like that makes my skin crawl. And so it wasn't that. It wasn't that.
And do you believe that you help other people genuinely to improve their lives? I think.
I do, but I don't know, Andrew, I have.
This do you get regular feedback run with me? And yeah, I just I feel like the psychologist and something about mary Ll But there she goes time she's up. Let's delve into that one next time? Shall we just putting on that thread? And I know it's your podcast and I'll go back to being the guest at the moment, otherwise I'll never be a guest on your poty again. But it's interesting in this activity and even that that's
a great example for your listener. Just even that question on self reflection on working career, Yeah, what is it around business development? Tease that out a little bit. There's a real opportunity for you to get someone to come in and do it authentically. And even if you're like that, you could just sort of step aside, go I don't like the money stuff. Say here's Cheryl. Cheryl comes out and goes, hey, Harps has got a program on. We're at moraban two weeks time. We're going to do all
this stuff. Come and see me after. It's only five hundred bucks. Yeah, change your life.
Look, you're right, you're right. I mean, I just I have I tell you what makes my skin crawl. People who present themselves as the answer, like, I fucking hate that so much. And people who say this is going to piss off a few people because a few people that listen to me do this. Oh ah, well fuck it. They say, I change lives. Like, no, you don't, bro,
No you don't. Maybe some people change their life because you said something that was of value and well done, and maybe you were a tool or a resource or just a tool.
I'd say, just a tool.
If you go it around saying like change lives, well, it's like, literally, I have a look on Instagram. There's so many people who talk about how many thousands of lives they've changed. I go, I've never changed one. The only one I've changed is me. I can't get out of bed for people. I can't have discipline and for people. I can't make the decisions for people. I can't be resilient for people. I can't be brave for people. They've
got to do all that themselves. And if there's some you know, kind of benefit from listening to me and then they choose to turn that theory, because all I'm doing, all you and me are doing right now, is espousing ideas and words and theories. And if someone listens to us and then they choose to go and make a decision and do a thing and create shift and create a positive outcome, will There'll be ninety nine people that haven't. So neither of those are because of you and me, you know.
Yeah. So I've got a couple of parallel thoughts I want to stitch together and one random thought. You published a bunch of books, my first book, which is called Flip the Switch in New Zealand. Every time I was doing a talk, Andre is a bestilling author of Flap the Swatch, So I always kick about Flap the Swatch, And I had books, and the company had bought one hundred and fifty books for a bunch of bankers. And
this lady said, oh, we sign your book. And I made some sort of jokey you don't want me to sign your book. It won't be worth anything when you try and sell it, and she I bore me, and she said, young man, why would you write a book if you're not proud to put your name on it? And she grilled me. She said, is this book full of good content? I said, absolutely? Has this book taken you a long time to put together? It's probably ten or fifteen years, she said, own it. And when someone
asked you to sign signed. From that moment, I got out of my insecurity, my Phobo, few of other people's opinion, my thoughts of my mates from Darbo, Mario, Ego, Dino and Lapo. And you can't make this shit up. No, it's a big head sign in books thinking he's a hero. They're not there, she was, And it was like this metaphorical slap. Why don't you own it? Now, let's stitch that back together. Your content's awesome. What's your potential? Nina James big tits and a squeaky voice, harps, love you
all coming along here today. You know, I'm a shit salesperson. I'm horrible and I have people ask me all the time and I don't do it anything. So step aside. So if any of you would like to come to the program, here's Bugsy. Bugsy's got something to say. You totally do it authentically. You don't have to be there in your teflon suit and your gold tooth.
But wait, there's more.
Yeah, so how do you reckon that could work?
Yeah? Yeah, Look, you're right, you're right. I need to I need to get better at that. I need to get Look, we're going to wrap up, but before we do, you need to unpack yours. So yours was a courtesy of me telling you what it was, community and security spirture.
Yeah, before I wrap, can't help it? Go how powerful is self reflection?
Amazing?
Like just because we created the space and there's trust and you went down the rabbit hole and then go yeah yeah, well so your reflection as you run the year, you could get Bugsy the gold tooth and test on suit and you're going to make more money. It's not for the money, but more differences, more impact.
All right, mine? Now, part of me wants to give you a cuddle, and part of me wants to tell you to fuck off. So you're welcome.
Yeah, so can we talk about the fuck off bit?
Ha ha, because you're making me deal with shit, you know, but it's exactly what I need. Yeah, you're right. It's like you are right, Like there's nothing that you're saying about me in this moment that is not true. It is, it is true. And I still like when I say to people I'm still insecure, I'm not saying that because that sounds humble, like that is true, you know, I know,
you know. And there's this, as I've said before, there's this ability we humans have to feel inadequate while knowing, well, I'm not inadequate, but I feel inadequate, you know. So they can coexist, that emotional negative with that intellectual kind of positive, you know. And it's I mean, I don't know about you, but I still get up or before I get up, if I'm doing a big gig to a big audience, and there's still part of me that goes, well, today's the day you're going to fuck it up. It's
all going to come undone today. Today, I'm like well, of course, you know, after seventeen million fucking gigs, this will be the shit one and this will be my demise.
I think if you don't have it, it's that version of imposter syndrome I spoke to you about last time. If you don't have any imposter syndrome, you're a narcissistic asshole. If you have too much imposter syndrome, it's stabilitating. And I get this every time I start with a new sporting team or a new exec team. I was with a big insurance group last week with I've bet the Ceobody's executive team. I walk in there every time I start one of these gigs and go, what do I
know about insurance? What do I know about working in rugby union? What do I know about doing a podcast? But you want enough imposter syndrome that you're alive. It's like Locks and the Three Beers. This amount of imposter syndrambi is just right. And I think the wrestle with that, it's healthy, It's really healthy. And then so back to your question, mine was stopped deflecting. Mine was community and spirituality that you gave me. I've divided it because I
think they are quite different in the answer. I'm going to give you a community. I've given myself an eight spirituality five the community. Back ten years ago, I was involved with Combank.
I'd had a bike ride.
For two years. We went from Sydney to Newcastle in the year two, which was twenty and twelve. Out of the twenty four people thirteen, so more than half way from Combank. Another guy i'd met, Quentin Boys, ragged me up a week after that said mate, can I join your bike ride next year? I said, why don't you sponsor it? He said, what do you mean? I said, you got a little bit more on your balance sheet a Combank than I do. My business back then was
called the Performance Clinic. So we had a coffee put an idea together we do a community ride to a three day ride. We took it to Matt Common, Matt now CEO at that stage he was running retail Bank. Matt said, look, I love the idea. We're looking at doing something for engagement community. He said, the biggest risk though is safety. So mazy, you know, how do You're not going to be run through the small business so we need someone to work with just It was absolutely
SERENDI but It's two weekends later. I was up visiting my mum and dad at Swansea outside Newcastle where they used to live. I'm in Cole's on a Saturday night and I run into Bruno Morel, the chairman of Tour to Qre Mazy Bruno in the Fruit and Ved section. Mate, what are you doing? I said, I'm seeing mom and dad.
What are you doing?
I've got a held a holiday house. He said, no way, do you bring your bike?
Yeah?
Went for a ride the following morning stitch together the idea went back to Matt Common said, yes, that's ten years.
I go now.
Can for Cancer is a three day bike ride. Every year they do half marathon walks every major city and they've got regional ones they can do online. They had a swim this year and also a team marathon. That little idea has now twenty million dollars that go straight towards two to Cure to help fund research for cancer breakthroughs.
Wow, that's incredible.
So when we had our ten year this year and out on the bike ride there are only four of us that have done all ten, I just went, I'm so proud of Combak because they get beaten up and I've been saying their so it's all about money in the banks, and this is something that they do that's literally impacted so many people, So twenty million dollars so on community, I feel like I really belong with that tribe, and I'm so proud of what that group and had part of the idea at the start, but to be
there from the start and see where it's come now and how Combank have really made this. It's their biggest community activity and now what they're looking at and we're helping them behind the scenes on this because they've hit about seven thousand employees this year, seven and a half thousand employees. To go the next level, they're looking at donating plasma to try and get fifteen thousand. So it's still the next evolution. So from a community point, I
feel totally engaged with that. From a spirituality, a very good looking, very intelligent, very skillful dude that you put me in contact with, Josh Peterman, I interviewed Josh last week, So thanks for the connection, and Josh gave a very different view on spirituality. It's not about religion, but it's about that connectivity and how you connect with the world
around you. So is Josh's frame. I need to work on that, to work on for me, And I make the excuse I've got four kids, run a business, do keynotes, work with a few sporting teams, love Chattna Harps. But it's an area that I'm going to do more work on as a reflection. Just is it going to church? No, I do go to church twice a year because mum's devastated if I don't. It's just more thinking about what else is out there? Yeah, exploring that I.
Grew up in a very religious paradigm, as we've I think covered on. But for me, you know, the ever present theme in most it's some stage in most theological texts is love. And I just think that the way you treat people can be a form of you know, spiritual practice. How you are, how you show up in the world, how you love people, whatever that looks like.
You know, how you connect, how you communicate, how you listen, how you care, how much empathy you have and express and not in a strategic sense because you're trying to be spiritual, but just because that's an expression of who you are and how you are. And you know, for me, a part of my spiritual expression is having a purpose
bigger than me, because I am inherently selfish. So there's this model that I kind of developed out of a bunch of other models, but it starts with self reflection and self awareness, and number seven is self actualization and number eight is self transcendence, which is essentially just having a purpose bigger than you. So I think, yeah, I think you do it, mate. I think you're very kind and generous, and you're very plugged into people and also
being like I think you can be. You know that I don't think kindness and love always needs to look all fluffy and more. You know, sometimes kindness is going Hey mate, I know you don't want to hear this, but this is what I think. And I know a fair bit about this stuff. And I'm telling you because I would love you to live twenty years longer than you're probably going to at this point in time.
Yeah, it's interesting. I like how you flip the coaching and.
I don't think it needs to be well, where's your DreamCatcher? Bro? Where are your fucking sandals? And it doesn't need to be.
It doesn't like I you know that idea is not a bad idea, but I don't think that like I think that the I think if you can walk, can talk, and live for the most part your values, and if your values part of them are rooted in love and kindness and generosity, and when appropriate selflessness go, that's just you know, that's you just being a conscious, aware, evolved, spiritual being, just walking around in a biological spacesuit.
Two things on that. One is I'm totally on purpose. I've got a clear purpose, and we know the research on purpose, a clearly articulated personal purpose. It's got to be bigger than you, future focused and excite the living daylights out of it. So with work and sport, I'm totally on purpose. What I take out of what you've said, I need to build in more time. How ironic is this I'm getting on to say, Hey, we've all got to look in the review mirror my reflection on our reflection.
I just need to spend a bit more time and create some space to think a bit more about the connectivity and.
What is that? Yeah, yeah, like this is what I think about. Like right now, a whole lot of people are hearing you for the first time, and I know you're going to share this on your show. So there'll be some people who are hearing me for the first time and they can never ever hear you or me for the first time again, ever again. You know, there's
only one first time. There's only one first impression, and without being manufactured and strategic, it's like when somebody it's like today, this is what I was thinking about, how a tiny thing for me can have a massive impact on someone else. Right. So, I don't know if we've shared it, because we started this podcast twice. I don't think we talked about Joe Ingles on this, but I interviewed Joe Ingles, who is an NBA player, and one of my friends their kid is a budding basketball or
a young girl and names Indy Luski. Shout out to Indy, and she's twelve and she's in a state team and she's still a state team for football, and she's a fucking little superstar. Right. Sorry for saying fuck to her, mum, but I thought, how good would it be if I could get an NBA player, one of Australia's best ever basketball is a multiple time Olympian blah blah blah, to
give a shout out to this little girl. And I said at the end we finished, I said, mate, I hate to be cheesy, it's not for me, but is there any chance? And he goes, of course, and so he goes, I'll just I'll just do it into my phone when we finish, and i'll send you the video. So he did this beautiful video where he goes, hey, Indy, you know it's Joe Ingles blah blah blah. You know, I hope you're great. I've heard about you. You're killing you know. And so it's thirty two seconds. I think now.
It took him thirty two seconds, and it took me a bit of discomfort to ask him because I didn't want to fucking ask him. Well, it's just made her year, Like her mom like just was.
Like, oh my good, best Christmas present you could possibly give a young girl who's in the sport.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and it's like, yeah, how good. And I just made me happy to make her happy, Like that almost gave me more joy than actually the podcast, and I love the podcast. He's great. But yeah, I think that, you know, I think that's how that that spiritual component to your life can operate. It doesn't need to be overtly fucking Dreamcatchery or caf Tanny or you know, it's like I don't. Yeah, And in fact, you know, the irony is that telling people that you are spiritual
is fundamentally not spiritual because there's ego in that. You know, there's there's self in that. You know, there's like it's so such it's quite ironic.
See, we've got deep, haven't we. We've reflected and.
Haven't we look at us?
Yeah.
I just want to tell you that I love you, Andrew. And I just want to tell you, hey, mate, Tell my group we're going to wind up. We're got to wind up. Kids, I'm taking up your whole night. Tell my people how they can connect with you.
On socials at Andrew May is my handles and our website is performance Intelligence dot com.
Perfect. I appreciate you. You're always a superstar. You're very generous with your knowledge and your insight and your time. And I'm sorry I made you do a quarter of a podcast only to start again to do another podcast. My apologies.
A really good test, am I practicing relaxation?
That was good.
I really enjoy our chats. And just in finishing for your audience, we've ducked and dived and dodged and all over. But the red thread through all of this is reflect. The red thread through all this is don't just roll into Christmas and whatever you're doing in Christmas and then just go right. I've got to set goals for a new year. It really is powerful to look back a little bit. And this could be linked gratitude as well
and appreciation for what you've got. I've just found out the lone few years mate, it's really helped me and mcclent. So for your audience, just that discipline. We'll send that link so they can go to your show notes. Just spend twenty minutes, thirty minutes, grab a cup of two or a coldie over Chrissy, and just look back in the review mirror before we ramp up for the year ahead.
Perfect finish, mate, Thank you. I'll talk to you off air, but for the moment. Thanks for being on the New Project again.
Pleasure buddy,