Tommy Jacket, Welcome to the Bloody You Project.
Hi, thanks for having me. Craig go oh god.
I've missed you. You and I have not spoken as in a conversation. We had a sixty seconds one a sixty second one earlier today, which wasn't It was like quick catch up and do you want to do a potty and tell me what you've been up to? And you went, nah, can't, it's a secret. Then you went nah, I can, and then you went nah, I can't. I can, uh some of it, not all of it. So I'm curious. But in general terms, Hi, how are you?
I'm great mate. This is a great time of year. Do you like? Do you like like the lead up to Chrissy New Year's I do?
I do? I generally, I generally do, and I won't go into great detail. A bit sad this year because a family friend is very very unwell, someone very close to our family and my family, so it's a bit sad. But in general terms, yeah, Christy is good. It's like everyone like the mood lightens and people take the foot
off the gas a little bit. But it's an interesting time because for some people, isn't it interesting that for some people it's a time of connection and fun and joy and love and giving and getting, and for some people it's a time of isolation and loneliness. And so, you know, without being a downer, yeah, it's it's an interesting time of the year because either way it's going to evoke certain feelings and emotions.
Yeah, I mean, I kind of do have that love hate with it because I enjoy the time and the sort of vibe of Australia around the Christmas you know, that end of December jan break. But then I also lose all momentum I've gathered from the year, and by the time I come back into work, I feel like I've you know, got no steam or I find that I find it hard to pick it back up, even though I have a bit of clarity around, you know,
what I'm doing. But I also find momentum is so powerful from you know, midway through the year to the back end. And then yeah, it is quite disruptive in that way. So love hate, but more love than hate.
Do you think you are? Like how old are you now? I'm twenty two, you know, I forgot so you're thirty five or thirty six? Yeah, And I've known you since literally since you're a teenager, and you remind me of me in that you're better looking than me, and smarter than me and more creative than me. But other than that, other than that, you remind me of me in that it's like you never really wanted a real job. Like
it's not that you didn't want to work. You wanted to work, but you didn't want a traditional Nothing wrong with traditional jobs or roles, but you know that nine to five, put on a suit, drive somewhere, do a job, leave that place, drive home. That's not really for you,
and that's not really for me. But I feel like watching you over the years where this passion and creativity has intersected with making money and supporting your family and meeting people and travel, it's like this synergy now of a bunch of different things that just happens to make money. Does it feel like a job?
Yeah, not really, because if it felt like a job, I wouldn't be doing it. I'd be doing something else. But in saying that, even though my life doesn't always you know, it doesn't necessarily feel like a job. And to be clear, that's probably what I've always had as a driver to work away from So that's been sort of anchored in wanting to find those things that don't feel like work or that aligns so much with the things that I'm passionate about so that they don't feel
like that. But there's been a long time that I made no money, very little, not making you know, millions now, But I'm just I'm making more than I was when I first started out. And that's probably the challenges though. When people try and do things that are a passion you know that they really truly love, Converting it to some kind of monetary reward is tricky, but they still stick at it because it's so rewarding from a you know, values perspective.
Could you give There'll be people listening today who've never met you because you haven't been on for a little while, and there'll be lots of people who know you a bit, and there'll be a few people who know you really well. But could you just tell people what you do? Like, give us a snapshot, Like you and I meet in a bar and I go mate sixty seconds or whatever. Tell me how you make money, what you do and how it works.
Well, if I met you in a bar, I'd say, firstly, what are you doing in about? And secondly, you're my father? How do you not know this stuff exactly exactly?
I'm Tommy's cyber dad. Sorry, good dad, pseudo dad. But all right, pretend I'm a stranger.
I mean, I struggled to say that, but if I was to sort of lean into that, because I would probably ask questions about them first before me. But what I do for a job is video production and podcast production. And I got into that through sort of being passionately into creating myself. So you know, I started out as a personal trainer. I didn't like that. I wanted to move towards something that I was more passionate about, which
was media, the creation of content. And I ended up working in radio for two years, hosting a breakfast radio show, which then led to creating video content, which then led to creating my own video production and podcast production business. And so yeah, ankor In that has been always centered around that personal creation and then helping other people do that for them their brand.
When you like, you've just been working on what is for you and would be for anyone in your line. Quite a big project which we'll talk about. I'm not sure how much we'll talk about it, but we'll talk about it at the end of it. When you do something really good, I feel like for you, of course, you've got to make money, pay the bills, you've got kids, you've got a family, you've got responsibilities, all that normal
grown up stuff. So proud of you, but I feel like you're more interested in how good it is than how much it's going to make.
Yeah, which I guess hopefully you can convert that to making you some money and it also being how good is this? It can be both, yes, and I think you should. It's hard because then it's just a hobby if you can't get it to convert into some kind of financial award.
But what about what about the eye around like and this is you know, I coach a lot of would be speakers and people who are speakers and want to be speakers, And I guess Tiff is in that. Tiff who works with me who you know, well, she's in that, and we're always you know, for the last few years I've been coaching her in terms of opening the door to professional speaking and coaching and running groups and mentoring and how that works. And we talk a lot about
the perception of value and the psychology of value. And there was a time when you would make a video for someone to promote their business, and you would charge X, and then a while later you would charge five X. And now these days, I don't know what you charge, but maybe fifteen or twenty X, and which is understandable. Like there was a time when I was doing talks for fifty bucks, you know, and now it's up to sixty bucks, so I'm killing.
It, you know.
But that that kind of evolution of not only your own development and creative potential and you know, business acumen, but being confident enough to charge people a lot to do something and when they could get someone in inverted commas cheaper, how did you go with all of that?
Yeah, it's such an evolution. You know, if you don't believe it at the start, you're not going. As in, if you don't believe you're worth more than what someone's willing to pay you, you're definitely not worth anymore. So you are worth fifty bucks to talk. But I think, yeah, over time, the experience, you know, runs on the board confidence in your own abilities. Half the time, I think creative industry and you know, these sort of self taught pursuits.
A lot of people are self taught now, photographers, videographers, you know, podcasters. There is that level of confidence in what you do that sort of comes over time, so once you have done it for other people. But I don't know, maybe you probably know me in a perspective that I don't even know me seeing my level of confidence in what I'm doing, which I don't think I
did have that early days. But I had the ability to push through that uncomfortable feeling of unsure and don't know my worth to where to being able to charge today good money for what I do.
Yeah, I think for me it's like seeing you from the clumsy clearly talented and likable and charismatic and all of those things which you were. But it's kind of like reminds me of being at lots of sporting teams that I've worked with, AFL clubs, VFL clubs, National level Netball League clubs, where some somebody comes in and you're like, are this girl or this guy? They've got good genetics.
They've got good genetics. They can run, fast, jump high, they can catch, they can throw, they can kick, they can handle, they've got good durance, they've got but they're a fair way away from being an elite player, you know, And that's kind of where you were, Like you had all the ingredients and all the potential and all the possibilities, But there are so many people that have that, but they don't then do the required work to turn that potential into a real world thing that is now valuable,
that is now sought after, that is now in demand, that is now at a very high level. Like I always had the potential to be a reasonably good corporate slash professional speaker rights or whatever, but there was a lot of time where I didn't have the experience, I didn't have the skill, I didn't have the confidence, I didn't have the knowledge. Like the potential was there, but potential is really just the stepping off point. Like for me, you're especially in the last I reckon four years, it
seems like you've matured ten years. It's like you're a much more grown up. Like you were like a fucking twelve year old too, you're about thirty.
Yeah, yes, go on, now I feel like an old thirty six year old.
Yeah if you're like a fun twelve, but you were like a big kid. I'm still like that big kid. Sometimes I still have to rain my shit in and go all right, well, you know you're actually doing a big gig and you're talking at the wherever.
You know, I want to always have like this huge leap in what they do. So it's like you obviously get runs on the board from doing the thing that you do and you slowly chip away. And maybe maybe not everyone actually has that progression when they are having just chipping away and having run the because things come into play, like self esteem or self worth or just not being able to view themselves in a way that
increases their value. So I get that that is also a reality, but I kind of always have just chipped away. So you know, the video projects or the podcast projects I work on today are quite they feel much easier than they would have five years ago because my skill my skill level has caught up. And then the belief is sort of in myself and being able to do these kind of projects or work with big clients has also strengthened. And so it's it can only happen over time.
It's unless you unless you have a big opportunity that allows you to take a huge leap. And for me, it was like doing the radio thing. I'd never done any kind of real tangible project or you know, being employed by somebody who was other than just making my own content, which is a very low barrier. Anyone can do it. But then when you you know, quotation marks get picked by somebody and they say, we think you're
good enough. I'm on board, like you know, that is one way to sort of level up and feel really sort of insecure about it, but then be able to say, oh, they must think I'm good enough. They gave me a job, and then and then, but then that was just that job was you know, two years of every day doing the thing, and so then you get just I got the opportunity to be able to hone my skill in this area, which yeah, that that helps you then progress, that's that that generates that momentum in your value.
I think also you don't realize because you're you, and because you're with you every minute of every day, you don't see your own progression because it's like if I don't see you for a while, like I don't think you and I have sat down and had a coffee for months, four or five months, maybe.
No, no, just before I left three it could be three months, Jesus away for seven weeks, was it?
I okay? But when I don't see you for an installment, like three months, four months, I noticed change. I noticed development, but you wouldn't notice it because you're you, right. And it's like the other day somebody was asking me about somebody wants to as does everyone start a podcast? And they're like, can you give me a three minute workshop
on podcasting? And I just gave them literally that like pros cons, what to do, what not to do, what my thoughts, my peaks and trots, what I did well, what I did terrible, blah blah blah blah, and I finished, and they're like, one, I never thought there was so much to it, and two like, oh my god, you know so much. And I'm like, I still feel clumsy
on a podcast at times. And then I think, well, like when I think about all the stuff I did with you before the new project, the stuff we did, the stuff I did with Bianca and Francis, the stuff I did with the Australian Fitness podcast which was mine
that I gave to Russell, blah blah blah. I've done, you know, just in my own I've done over two thousand shows, and then when you're all the other shows I've been on or episodes, I would say at least another five hundred, so that's two and I think, oh, yeah, I'm probably good at this, or I'm probably I've got some skill and some knowledge and some understanding of the you know, the science for one of the better term,
the science of it all. But you never I never stop and think, shit, I'm good at this, and then somebody points out that you're actually fucking good at it, and you go, oh, am I here.
Well, all the beauty of time allows you to then have sort of that tangible evidence to pull on that yeah, I have done this. And so the project that I've just been working on, a documentary traveling across America, where I was hosting it with my mate Josh, who I had the Daily talk show with which you were on
many times, and we've both been on here. We hadn't been in front of camera together or doing anything podcast related in years, but not even thinking can we do that or not, we just stepped into the project knowing and for me, I'm only talking for me here, but I knew that we've done this so many times, thousands we've been. You know, I've done thousands of episodes of podcasts in my time, including the radio stuff. It's like, yes, yes,
and so. But if that was fifteen years ago, I would have been shitting myself, not knowing if I could do it. Do I have the skill set to be able to.
Do I want to talk about your docco in a moment, But I remember years ago, early early days of Harper's and that's my gym's everyone and I got interviewed for a few things. I got interviewed on radio sporadically, like four or five times a year, and I really enjoyed it. I got interviewed for a few mags and for the Herald Sun that I ended up writing for, and the radio stuff I really liked. And I thought, how do
I get into radio? Not that I want to be a radio person, but and then a friend of mine said, why don't you do some community radio? And I'm like, well, I don't even know what that is. And basically, it's it's it's it's a volunteer as you know exactly. It's everything's the same except no one listens. So you know, you might have fifty or one hundred listeners and it's not commercial and it's not paid, and there are they're not advertisers.
What are they called sponsors?
Its sponsors, Thank you sponsors. And but I did I did four years of a show by myself that fucking thirteen people listened to. But I got four years of training, like literally playing music, taking calls, you know, time checks, station id, weather checks, having conversations in and off of mic. But and so by the time I got to work at SCN, which was a few years later, I'd already
done hundreds of hours of radio without the pressure. So so not all of it, but a lot of the development, the learning, the fuck ups, the understanding, you know that the miles on the clock, I'd already got under my belt before I sat down in a proper studio where it really fucking matters, you know. So I'd played one hundred games before I played my first game, so to speak.
Yeah, yeah, and there not everyone's willing to do that though, as in putting the time without any reward, and so yeah, that's the trouble. That's a challenge with people who want to get into doing podcasting nowadays is there's would they do it if someone said, Okay, here's money for you to show up and do this thing. But that's why, really, I think that's why there are so many great standout ones, because it's all off the back of someone having so that real drive to do it themselves.
I think also, you know, the willingness to do something that you know you're not going to be good at initially and being okay with that and recognizing that the only way I get good at podcasting is by podcasting, just like I can't get good at running by not running. Yeah, I can't get strong without lifting, you know. And so you go, all right, well, I'm going to start a podcast and there's probably going to be somewhere between one and five people listening, and it's every chance it's going
to be shit. Yeah, and it might be shitited somewhere between shits and average for a long time. But the only way I can get through the shit an average phase is to do that. You know, This is how I get good is by acknowledging and being bad or not skilled or not competent at the start and then doing the work to get good. But people don't want that painful start.
Yeah, it's painful, I get it.
What's the average number of episodes that podcasters do, isn't It isn't the average podcast loves last seven or something episodes?
Yeah, seven or eleven? I think the number. Maybe it's because I like seven eleven as a shop. That may be just coming to mind.
I do remember, we'll talk about your doco in a minute. And I know you don't have too much time. Do you have tool? It's twelve twenty one. Now have you got to forty five or no?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So.
I remember you did tell us there's so many cool things that you've done over the years that our listeners would know of. But remember you did the coffee the blind coffee test where I think that was you where you've got a seven eleven coffee and actual some Barista made coffees, like some five six dollar coffees and one dollar coffees.
Or seven eleven coffees mainstream. Now, if you're not drinking it, what are you doing? It's no, but it's seen now as like it's just a part of you know, everyone. If you're running late or just need a quick hit,
you go to seven eleven. This is not a sponsorship deal, But I've been drinking seven eleven coffees from day one, And my point was in this test was that when it's a long black, Sure, there are some cafes that do like an exceptional tasting long black that do stand out amongst other long blacks, But when you are just having black coffee, can you really tell the difference between something that's just shot out of a machine for a dollar inflation now two bucks? Can you tell the difference
between that and a barista made coffee? But that was on the that was on the podcast with Pete Sheppard. I got him to taste test the barista coffee from the cafe downstairs of the studio and the seven to eleven coffee that I ran and got, and he chose the seven eleven coffee as the tasty one, which really, which is yeah, I mean, it's it's that is hard, but yeah, that's it. I think it just shows that it really is just.
I mean, taste is taste is subjective, of course, But every like most days, I train at four and then on my way home at five point fifteen, there's a seven eleven fifty meters from the gym, which you know, and most days, especially if I've got to work, especially if I've got a six pm podcast, especially if I need to be a little bit of a stim on board. I get a seven eleven coffee and I have a fancy coffee every morning at the Hampton's and it's good.
And I don't know if the seven eleven is as good, but to me, it's very much in the It's not like I'm drinking, you know, ness cafe out of a jar from the pantry. It's to me, it's it does the same job.
Which one do you pick? Which coffee?
Which coffee? I have a medium which is three bucks now, and I have a skinny flat white, which is it's a double shot.
I think, Okay, I like, what do you do? I've gone the piccolo now some of the machines are they're you know, they've upgraded.
I didn't even know you could do a pick. So piccolo is like just a small amount of water and a single or a double shot.
So it's just a shot of coffee and a little bit of milk. So it's like the cup it becomes half full, so it's just like a taste stronger, so.
It's like half the milk but the same cough caffeine.
Yes, do you remember when I did that video going down the rabbit hole of seven to eleven, the where I worked out that a large would fit into a medium. Yeah, all right, it was a bit of an expose or as a medium fits into a small, and so there was just something there which, in fairness, I can't even remember what I did, but I'd worked out that one of the bigger cups fits into a smaller cup and it's like the same amount of coffee, so you're basically
better off just getting the small. But then I was on the project talking about that just being an absolute scally wag. But I looked into like where the coffee was roasted, found out it was out like out past Alfington area. So I went out to the plate like just the Yeah, it was a real time in a moment in time when that was just sort of coming becoming mainstream.
Well, I mean it's it's still ground coffee beans, right, it's And it's like the thing about seven eleven, like it or not, is that it's consistent, Like there's zero variation in my coffee. I know exactly what it's going to taste like, exactly how hot it'll be and exactly how full the cup's going to be, no matter where I get it from or when it's exactly the same. Every time.
I paid six dollars yesterday in Brighton for a piccolo coffee and that's suck. I could not believe it. And at that point, like you just it was. I was having a meeting. I was like, oh, but I still got it. But it really annoyed me that I had to pay six dollars for something that's a dollar fifty and it definitely wasn't any better than a piccolo from seven to eleven.
I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but fuck it. Live on the edge, jumbo. Have you been to Ing?
Yes?
Have you had coffee in England?
I was twenty eleven. Was it was trash when I was there, But I.
Was there about six years ago. I guess I did some work there and I've been there a few times. But last time I was there, the coffee was like four pounds, so like eight bucks, and it was it was lukewarm, it was weak, it was fucking terrible.
Well, I think the coffee around the world I think has got better. There has been this time. So I was in America for seven weeks recently, and America is always slammed for having shitty coffee. Well they do it differently. It's all the just percolated, just coffee on black coffee. It's like closer to something like tea. You can drink like four cups of it without your head blowing up. Versus if you had four long blacks in Australia in a row, you'd be ye, you'd have a.
You'd have chest pain.
Yeah, yes, and so but across across America the coffee is so much better now, and so there is I think there has been a catch up in the last ten yeah, ten years.
Yeah, all right, tell us about whatever you can. So you just got back from the States. You were doing a doco, correct what I get wrong? But you were making a doco for someone else, your production company, but someone was paying you to be there, so you weren't funding it. You were doing it for someone else with a view to potentially this being streamed on a big platform internationally. Is that right?
Yeah? Well, to create anything, there's no linear path these days. Back in the day, you know, you'd get picked by a network or you know, you'd have an agent, and then you'd someone's creating something and it's usually a work that are funding it and then so there's you know, lots of sort of red tape and then the thing gets created and distributed. Now you can there's a million ways to fund something. You can create it, you know bootstrapped, you know, just with your time and then hopefully it
gets picked up. So a lot of documentaries come out that way or a network, you know, the old traditional path, or private equity, which is what we had funding a film that will then go on to a streaming platform. So you then sell it onto a streaming platform. So that's just the way we got to this project. But yeah, seven of us went to America to you know, seven Ossie Ossies went over to America and we spent a month driving across the country learning about gun culture within
America through the lens of Australians. You know, it's very different in this country. I mean, have you ever seen have you ever seen a gun? I mean, you've got a shady pass, but have you ever seen like a gun with a criminal or something like that isn't on the hip of a police officer in your time? Have you seen?
Have you only when I'm in the States, so I mean, but well, no, that's not true. I mean I grew up. I've shot guns, you know, because I grew up in the country. But back in the day, when you know, you would you would go, you know, rabbiting and all of that hunting. And I don't do it anymore. Everyone don't get mad at me. But back in the day. But that was a very long time ago, Like that was forty forty five years ago. That was pre port
Arthur and all of those things. And it was it was less of a you know, like a talking point like it wasn't but generally you know, no, no, but in America. Yeah, like I've been in Texas and Mississippi and Louisiana, and like Texas is open carry as you know better than me, I'm sure, but but yeah, it's it's so, how was it? How was the trip? Yeah?
Unbelievable. So, I mean it was just the fact of having sort of a like that small team. It's quite a big team, but it's a small in the scale of documentaries or Hollywood fild or anything. But yeah, so we started in.
So just tell us what the seven were. So you and Joshua John camera, but it also as a creatives and producers and.
Yeah, we had two producers with us two camera guys, a dop and an assistant cinematographer, and then we had a soundo who was managing all the microphones and labs. And so we started the trip in Los Angeles and we had this massive Ram twenty five hundred. We wanted to sort of lean into that American experience of having a big truck and you blend in quite well because everyone else has got them, and so.
We got that's a great for my listeners, that's a great, gigantic, big ut Yeah.
I mean it's a pickup truck. It's it can bloody transport a crane if you had to like this thing. We because the challenge with getting any kind of higher car is you know how they say it's going to be a Subaru or similar, and so we picked the biggest cars that would be like an f f F fifteen hundred, F one fifty sorry or similar, and somehow we lucked out. We got a Ram twenty five hundred. This thing is I'm six foot two, it's it's you know,
standing at seven foot at the cabin. It's ginormous. And so we were so pumped that we got to have this thing for the full four weeks of driving and where it was next level. So we started in Los Angeles. In prior to going, we we had a bunch of sort of destinations or people we wanted to speak to, and then we spent a couple of weeks in Los Angeles working out who we could talk to, connecting up with people, and planning probably two weeks ahead on the
road trip. So yeah, we got, you know, as sort of bright eyed Aussie guys trying to understand what the gun cultures like. It's you're already thrust into it. Even in some way like Los Angeles that's very liberal and you know it's I guess, very strict on guns, but in respect to the other parts of the world, it's very you know, las in comparison. So you still can own a handgun, you still can own an ar fifth day, and there's you know, still so many of these things
that to us is so foreign. And so within California before we even left, we'd met someone who had been shot at a mass shooting, one of the biggest mass shootings in American history. We did a Hollywood experience where I got shot with this blood exploding out the back, you know, like a Hollywood scene that we did and then and then yeah, we moved on to Vegas, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Louisiana, Chicago, like and so we worked our way across the country.
But it's a very eye opening coming from this country and just.
Did you I bet you met like did you meet any meet any characters where you're like, how does this person even exist? Like is like this guy's like something from a film?
It is. The thing about America is there's so many of those types of people, and they absolutely love talking about what they're into. And so the fact that we were Rossie's, the fact that it was about guns, the Second Amendment and the culture that exists in America around guns just meant that we were sort of drawn to
these people. But the reality is, I think people could watch the documentary and think that we've you know, picked out only the people that said that they had a gun or said that they had a story, But genuinely, it was all the people we spoke to. There really wasn't many people that didn't have an experience around guns, didn't have a thought on it, a belief about it, or you know, had had a story from growing up and so you know, We went to New Orleans and
we spoke to three people. They all had a story. One guy had a gun in his bag, pulls out his handgun just in the main street, just unloads it. Yeah, give it here it is holding it. You know. We what was there?
Sorry? What was their attitude around you? Because it's not like most Americans will never meet, especially a Tommy Jacket, They're never going to meet seven Australians just on the other side of the world doing that. Were they receptive?
Oh so receptive? So we discovered, you know that we just from a timing perspective, we had all of our dates were moving about because we hadn't started the trip yet, and it just so happened. We'd booked our accommodation in Las Vegas, and we'd planned to sort of have our first experience shooting a gun as Australians in America. In
someway like Las Vegas, there's a machine gun experiences. It's like a gun tourism within that state of Nevada, and it just so happened we had the date booked at a machine gun experience was the same date of the biggest mass shooting in American history, which was the Route ninety one country music festival where yeah, there was fifty something people killed by a guy who was up in a hotel room shooting down the crowd.
I remember that. I remember that.
And I found a woman online who lived in California, but she was there and she was shot three times in the face, in the back, in the arm, and she was a mother of two. And I connected with her and told her who we are, what we're doing, what we'd planned on doing, and how it's you know, our plans were changing based on understanding this, and we
wanted to understand her story. And yeah, she just so she wrote back to me straight away and she was so open and we went and had the producer and I went and had coffee with her in California, and that before we even started filming with her. But just she just wanted to meet us and make sure that we were legit. And she was the most beautiful person, just and ended up having a perspective that I didn't think one would have after being involved in something like that.
So as Australian, you'd think she'd be anti gun, she would be very much against it, and that wasn't her situation. She you know, grew up with guns in her family, police officers. She understood, she knows how to use guns, but she she doesn't. She understands people's rights and you know, beliefs around own gun ownership, which is obviously tied to
the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms. And so yeah, she she you know, gave us this perspective that once she was shot, she felt like she was asked, oh, you're going to be that the now face of anti gun you know, you're going to be coming to the rallies. And she want nothing to do with that, you know.
And so this is the nuance of the gun conversation in America is going in and as Australian with a perspective that we have just from the reality of what we face here or don't face because it's not something that's on our mind. It just sort of opened the door to so many of those perspectives that were surprising to us.
Is there one thing and I mean, obviously we've all got our own I guess probably a lot of our listeners don't really think too much about guns, although some may. But what might we as Aussies find surprising, Like what you just said, that's surprising, But in terms of what you saw or what you became aware of or experienced, what would the average Australian find quite surprising in terms of what you know?
Now, Yeah, I mean from my experience speaking to people, they're more on the side, not even on the side, they're more in the middle that they understand the rights. Americans have their belief on freedom and there's more people that see eye to eye on the subject. You know, a lot of gun owners don't agree with any of this pain that's been caused by them, and it's a very small minority that are actually doing those heinous things.
But I mean, once you start understanding some of the statistics, like suicide from firearm is one of the biggest causes of death from firearms, so it's sixty percent makes up almost sixty percent of the gun deaths each year come from suicide. And so it's interesting when you hear about some of these statistics, how you understand the media portrays
things in a certain way. And that's not to reduce the reality of mass shootings, school shootings, but they are such a small minority, small number within the number of these deaths per year. But obviously it's so triggering, and you know, there's within the documentary we're at a school learning about a whiteboard on a wall that folds out into a safe room for kids. And I've got kids. I'm crying the doco talking to this guy trying to
understand this. And so we learned about this firsthand. You know, this thistle room that can hold up to sixty elementary school children. It's just heartbreaking, and so you know this there is the stark reality of what can happen with them, and then you sort of you know, so it's it is very nuanced, and this is what we're putting forward. It's not a hit piece on America. It's not pro gun,
anti gun. We're trying to sort of tell this story, one that the media doesn't communicate and one that is very much the people being able to share their beliefs, their experience as Americans.
Do you know who Tim Kennedy is? Yeah? You do, don't you?
Yeah?
Yeah, So Tim Kennedy, for those who don't know, is an ex soldier, Special Forces Soldier, UFC fighter, you know, fill in the blank, imny things. But I heard somebody I can't remember who it was, but the context of the conversation was they were talking about banning guns and getting guns out of hands and all of that, and he teaches people how to shoot and he's a you know, sniper and all of that stuff, and was he essentially said, yeah, the problem with that is that the bad guys are
not handing their guns in. You know. That's the thing is, like even if you say like it feels like to me in America, like if you could remove all guns, if there was zero guns in America, then there could be zero deaths by gun, right, But you can't do that, Like it's past the point of no return, it seems, because even if they went right, it's illegal to have
a gun. Well as if the bad guys in inverted commas are going to be given their guns, So what then you're doing is you're keeping all the bad guys armed and all the people, all the civilians who aren't bad guys, and they now can't protect themselves. And I'm with you. I'm deaf, not not pro gun, and i know people are going to go well, if there were no fucking guns, there'd be I get it, I get it. I'm with you. And in an ideal world that we do not live in there would be zero guns. But
that's not the world we live in. But Australia has done a good job though, I mean, I mean.
If that's so, the reality is that I get to come home and live in a place like this. But when you when you go over there and you realize, okay, there's they're never going away, and you start to understand the belief system of a lot of Americans. You know, kids are brought up understanding the Second Amendment, how the country was founded, what firearms mean to you know, the history of America. It makes more sense of where they
are at today. When you try and place the Australian lens on America's challenge or situation, it just it doesn't work. And so that's where my mind before going over there, I was, you know, very much of that understanding, just because I was coming from this place where you don't ever see guns. I mean sometimes, yeah, sure there are
guns in this country. There's probably more than you think, but it's really not like to own one in this country, you need a license, it's registered, the cops know where it's registered too. Like that's not the reality in America. So it, yeah, it's very confusing to Australians and so hopefully the documentary allows people to have a greater insight into what it means to Americans.
We're gonna let you go soon, just quickly. I've got a couple of practical questions. So give or take? How much footage did you shoot? How many hours of film do you have from that trip?
Do you reckon over one hundred hours? Over one hundred hours for sure?
So out of that over one hundred hours of film that's got to be condensed into what length? Ninety Yeah, so you've got to give or take give or take ninety nine percent of what you filmed you won't use.
Yeah, so you do?
You just look at I'm going to give you two options, and you tell me if one of these is right or there's a third option. But to me, it seems like option A. We filmed all this, let's get all the amazing shit that we like, the this bit was amazing.
This has got to be in. That lady was incredible, she's got to be in and then you fit a narrative around that, or do you have a narrative and then just pick and choose the film you know, like without I don't mean like trying to be disingenuous, But how on earth do you figure out the storyline and what will be in and what won't be in.
Yeah, I mean there was a plan before we went away, and then there's the plan that sort of had opening along the way with the director's vision, and then you start to see that come together in an edit, and then that's where you can start shifting at a bunch so you can see what actually works. So there's the theoretical version of it, and then there's bring it together and seeing what's really strong, what isn't, what's a motive? You know, how you're balancing it out so it's not
feeling like it's one side or the other. And so yeah, it is a it's an absolute puzzle that you're trying to work to and amplify the bits, you know, just amplify the story through different bits. But you start to see what sort of comes out from the themes, you know, what the big question is that's being answered. All these kind of things start to come out within the process. But it's like anything, it is a process, and it is there are challenging bits.
And I guess, yes, like I'm even thinking down to smaller than that, I bet you've already thought about what's going to be in the trailer or the trailers, because apart from the fact that you want to do it with integrity and you want to do something creative and insightful and real, you also want to get bums on seats. You also want to be back to our discussion earlier about Korea. You also want to produce something that's commercially successful, right, Yeah,
So it's trying to bring all those elements together. Yeah.
I mean, I think the old school approach to these kind of things, there would be a lot that you'd never see the light, that would never see the light. So I think, I don't know. Hopefully, at the end, you know, say gets onto one of the big streaming platforms, there is a way that you can utilize a lot
of the content that we did actually film. Think about gaining extra access by some kind of premium access to a documentary like think about all the docos you love, Think about how long the interviews would have been and how good it would have been to listen to the whole interview, and so that would be amazing. That's what I think. As content like this evolves and streaming platforms. Hopefully people can sort of pay a premium to get deeper into the stuff that never went to air because
there's a lot. There will be so much out there in great docos.
Mate, you're a gun, You're an inspiration. The student has become the teacher. Look at you to fucking grown up, So proud of you. How do people I don't even know? Do you want people to find you and connect with you these days? Do we still do that? Do you still do that?
Well? You can follow me on Instagram then maybe you'll see when the doco comes out. Tommy Jackett that's my handle t J.
Right mate, we'll say goodbye affair, but thanks for having the chat. It's been nice to catch up. When are we Are we going to see each other in in the three D version soon?
Yeah? Mate? Next week?
Ah love your love you