I'll get at and welcome to another installment of the show. I hope you're bloody great. It's it's Monday. It's Monday Arvo. It's just hit the AVO. It's thirty three past the point where it becomes the ARVO. Tiffany and Cook and Matt are on the call. We'll get to mad in a moment. But the girl over there with the biceps who likes punching people in the face and was quite chuffed on the weekend because someone asked her if she
was about to go in a bodybuilding show. So the ego, So the whole Dalai Lama thing, the whole kind of serenity humility thing from India, that's well and truly gone.
Hey, I think it's the della alarmaed biceps. Like he'd give them a little flex as well. I reckon he give them a little flex.
Imagine that if the Dellai Lama got on the fucking on the gear to get it on the gear, settle down. I didn't say you were anyone, but imagine if you got on and yeah, imagine. I don't think that's going to happen, though. I think he's a little bit more evolved than you and I. How are you, Tiffany? Very well?
Thank you.
Has your Monday morning been?
It's been good.
Monday morning's always a busier morning with clients, but I had a little gap this morning, so I got to do a little bit of training, a little bit of fun training myself in between, and I like Mondays.
They're busy, but they're good. I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, good, that's good. What about you, Matt, how's your morning been? Sunshine?
Yeah, a heartskit A. Tiffany, my morning's been great. It's sunny here in Horsham, so it's a hot one. Yeah, being busy, a couple of zoom calls this morning, but I actually had some time to go for a little walk before it heats up too much, so that was great.
So no, loven't it? And just on the bysets, Tiffany.
When I met you in person for the first time at the mine Ash Health goer, you know, I've got four percent vision in one life six percent of the other eye, and I could see your bysets, So yeah, you're kicking goals.
I feel validated. Wow, wow, you do. So the guy who can hardly see has seen your biceps and been impressed. She'll be out of control all day. Now, mate, you shouldn't have told her that. Now.
I saw a tiff, and I'm like, this is a woman you don't want to mess with.
That is you're not totally wrong with that. But she can be either intimidating or a big basket case in the corner just sucking her thumb. I mean she alternates between those two.
Well, that was that was a red carpet event, so I was I was very much the second option there. I was a bit out of my comfort zone.
Yeah, did you wearing what did you well?
What did both of you? I can't imagine. Sorry, man, I mean, you know, like you're an impressive young man, but red carpet. What did you both? What did you both wear? Tiff? Did you have to rent something or did you look right in the back of the cupboard.
I had to go out shopping.
I bought myself a silky black jumpsuit, so it was you know, I mean, you can get away with a jumpsuit. I did have a mini breakdown about frocking up, so I met in the middle and I think I threw some red lippyon if I remember correctly.
Yeah, like a grown up. But what about you, Sunshine? Just a black suit, just like a straight up pumpin.
Yeah, I went and bought it a new tux seed over myself, so I treated myself. I thought, Oh, first event, Crown Casino got to look the part. So no, I got the full tucks, the shiny shoes, the whole kittenkaboodle.
I felt like I was at the brown Low Medal. So it was a great night.
That's hilarious. Has anyone ever told you you'd be quite good on radio? You've got a good voice, Matt.
I have been told I've had a great face for radio for many years, so who knows. I actually did a radio course with Vision Australia earlier this year, so that was really exciting. And yeah, jumped on a few podcasts over the years. Me and a mate used to do a podcast years ago, so I have done the speaking for quite a while.
But yeah, I have heard that in.
The past, for sure, but it's usually always been the term you've got a good face for radio.
Tell them to fuck off. Man, you're a good look. I wish I wish I looked as good as you look, Sunshine. Don't worry, Oh so do we call you Matt, Mattie, Matthew, is it just Matt.
Just call me Matt. Yeah, you can call me Matt. You can call me whatever. Really, but yeah, I do double trouble to tease, but yeah.
Anything but late for dinner. You can call me. Tell us give my audience a little bit about the Matt de Gricci story, like just to give them an insight into who you are and a little bit of your backstory.
Mate, Yeah, for sure, So get everyone. And my name is Matt Griucci. I'm currently twenty eight years of age and I am a blindness and disability advocate. I also do some subcontracts consulting with lived experience experts, so that's really exciting and it's all in the disability and inclusion space. But how I got there was when I was about six to seven. It was probably just in the early
ages of grade three grade four at school. My parents first started noticing I was bringing my school work back home and I didn't complete it in class. So I wasn't completing my assignments in class, and I also was looking a lot closer.
At it than what my peers were.
So that was met with a little bit of skepticism, but we went to some appointments. I was given bifocal glasses, misdiagnosed with dyslexia, you name it.
I had the work.
So this went on for probably about the best part of two years, maybe around eight a months.
And this was lots of different appointments.
So in a nutshell of the disease that I have is Stargarts, which I'll get to in a sec but at the time when I was diagnosed, it was quite hard for the standard optometrists just to have a look in the back of someone's eye and go, okay, that's Stargart's disease. So it was quite hard to sort of pinpoint.
So that's where I had a few misdiagnosises. But anyway, going on, about a few months later, we went to this appointment and there was this optometrist and he goes, nah, nah, I reckon, you're just faking it.
You're a bit of an attention seeker.
Wouldn't really take me seriously, didn't want to do a half assed test in his opinion.
I don't know where he got that from.
And yeah, he turned and he looked at my mum and he said, well, if your son can't read this. He must be a retarde. When I was about eight years old and I've just been labeled there a retide by someone that you kind of look up to, someone that's going to help you and you fix this vision. Because at the time, I kind of thought, yeah, i'd have a few appointments, I'll get this eye problem sorted out, and then I'll go about my way.
I'll keep watching the Simpsons, I'll keep living me life.
I didn't really actually think that there would be any weight to what would actually happen in the future, so that was a pretty confronting experience.
But I still hadn't had my diagnosis yet. And then I did.
Meet a lovely fresh Outer University ophthalmologist. She had just studied Stargarts disease, which is the disease that I have.
So that is.
How I actually found or got my diagnosis. I went to an optometrist and she found the yellow like flaky specks in the back of my eye, which is a build up of vitamin A. So, in very simple terms, my Stargarts disease is affected by the build up of vitamin A. So I'm sure we've all heard over the years the expression eat your carrots that are really good for your eyes. I'm sure we've all heard that one. Well,
actually not in my situation. So my eyes can't break down vitamin A that builds up it turns into this yellow like bugger substance in the back of my eye and that's what kills off the cells. But anyway, got the diagnosis eventually, and it was really like at that time a switch turning off. That's when the visual degeneration
started to happen quite rapidly. And I really did shut down because I saw around me in the very early days when I did go to a few different excursions and experiences that were meant to kind of get you prepared for losing vision, and I noticed there was this bubble wrap or a gold star approach. It was kind of like, oh, here's your gold staff for participation, but not really getting the real go at things. And that really scared me because I just wanted to have a
normal crack at things. I just wanted to do what I wanted to do and not sort of be sugarcoated. So I actually, yeah, really doubled down and hid my disabilities. So throughout my school schooling years up until the age of probably sixteen, when I couldn't really hide on disability anymore. It was the age where everyone's getting their license, getting a taste of.
That freedom and go and driving.
And here I was, and people are asking me, well, why don't you have your l plates matter? Why aren't you doing this? And initially I'm not ashamed and saying it. Initially I would actually just make up white lives. I'd just say, oh, I just haven't got men l plates yet, or I just haven't done it yet, or you know, I'll get there eventually. But it all stemmed from shame, Like I felt really guilty and shameful for having something qute wrong with me that I didn't actually put on myself.
But that's how I felt at the time.
I really had this victim mindset that I was a bad person, having something wrong with me that was never my first, like my choice in the beginning in the first place. And that was really my mindset. Really was like a light's on, but no one's home kind.
Of deal, and it really was. It was sugarcoated, it was the bubble wrap.
It was all that sort of stereotypical stuff that really scared me.
And yeah, it shut down.
It was kind of like the I guess in a way, it's like the five stages of grief, like get into the acceptance of my blindness, because early on I was very very much in denial, so I would not believe that I was going blind.
And you know, I would pick up a can of you know, I could.
Be a can of soft drink, or it could be a bottle of water, and I would turn it over to the back of the label, and I would really strain my eyes, almost to the point where I'd give myself a migrain and like tears in my eyes. I would strain that much. And it was kind of to trick myself into thinking that if I could strain enough and be able to see one of the words, oh, yep, I'm fine, I don't have Stargut's disease, and then this big bad dream would be over. That's how my brain
functioned at the time. So I went through the denial and then you know, obviously you kind of realize, wow, I am still losing my vision, Like this isn't going away.
So you go through, you.
Know, the angry stage, really angry and resentful and feel like the woe is me? This happened to me, this is so unfair, and then you kind of, you know, you do go into the bargaining stage where you kind of try and like trick yourself and you're like, Okay, well, if I do this, then I'm still independent, or if I do that, and then I would kind of then
actually not ask for the supports that I needed. So in turn, it still made me struggle a bit because I couldn't actually absorb or take in the information on the whiteboard or the blackboard at school. And that was so bad that even a teacher on my last day of school didn't even know that I was legally blind and losing my vision.
That's how good I wasn't hiding my disability.
So I got through all those stages very very poor mental health.
So it actually led us to it.
It was a family style intervention that around the age of yeah, getting your license.
Saying a load of freedom.
I was really a shell of the person that I was as a kid, and yeah, it was a family style intervention. I got the canceling sessions. I think I got ten free canceling sessions that was at the time, which you could get through your GP. And honestly that
it was such a shift in mindset. One of the things I remember from that time, and it's funny because I don't actually drive a car, but my cancelor got me to draw a picture of me in the driver's seat taking the power back the steering wheel and taking control of my own life and what I.
Wanted to do. And it was all a metaphor, but it was so powerful.
And I actually even got back into drawing because that was a skill that I guess I hadn't lost. I was still quite artistic and creative, but I just stopped doing it once I started to lose my vision because yeah, prior to diagnosis, as a youngster, very very very active, very creative, arts and crafts, all that stuff, and I really shut down and just stopped doing all of the
things that I enjoyed as in my teenage years. So getting to that step of acceptance was probably the biggest thing for me, being able to accept my disability, because then that gave me the power to not have the fear, not have the anxiety of thinking almost holding onto that hope of a cure, because that really was the thing that yet shut me down. I would google Stargart's disease. I would be google and research and it was all
with the sort of mindset of denial. It was me wanting to get rid of this so then I could go back to living my old life, rather than just accepting it and being like, Okay, this is a deck of cars. I've gotten life, and this is what I want to do with it. So yeah, in a nutshell getting myself to a place like that. I've started to share my story. I do keynote presentations at schools and stuff like that, and it's all happened pretty unconsciously because I never thought I would ever do speaking.
I never thought that. I never put myself out there like that. It was actually a.
Teacher in it might have been year eleven at school and we were doing a high school musical and he goes, you need to be the MC in this musical. You need to be the disc jockey, and I pushed back. I didn't want to do it. I remember, right up to the last training sessions before we went live with the musical, I even was full of anxiety.
I hadn't really learned my lines and stuff.
But I went ahead and I did the musical and I did really well, and I thought, oh wow, I might be able to do a bit of speaking. And then this was still when I hadn't told anyone about my blindness. No one knew accept me initial family and made him best made Ben. Apart from that, yeah, no one, So kept going on with that, and then it was actually Foundation Fighting Blindness that reached out wanted me to
make a short video. I did it, not really thinking that it would have the impact that it did at the time.
So this has going back quite a few years ago. This is before TikTok.
This is back in the blog post days of the early Facebook. So at the time I did a video for the how You See a campaign where I explained my condition, just the little tips and tricks that I'm using in my life to get by, and it kind of went viral at the time or for what it was.
And yeah, before I knew it, I was going over to America and meeting the two blind brothers who also have Stargarts disease, which was awesome because apart from meeting one other person in Australia the Stargarts and my sister who has been diagnosed in recent years, I haven't actually.
Met too many people with the same disease that I've got.
So to go over there and meet two people that I look up to, that you know, have just kicked goals in life. They've been on the Ellen DeGeneres Show, and now you know, I'm doing a presentation sort of thing alongside them. That was an incredible experience and it really launched what I do now. So MDV that's what I do now, that's my brand. It's Matt de Bridge Vision and we hyphenated it. And it started out just as a blog post.
I was on the way.
I was on the way to an ac DC concert back in twenty sixteen, and I was still working at a retail shop at that time. So I'd worked in retail for about ten years. So I never let my blinder stop me. I was always working, I was always hustling. But I just wanted something more. I didn't want to just be, you know, to check out chicks, so to speak. I wanted to do something more and real, non tokenistic, disability and inclusion training is my vibe, that's my niche.
So that's the direction that I headed in. And yeah, it started off as a clothing brand. It really did, selling a few T shirts and you know, I would pack all the orders up, and before I knew it, it did start a little bit of a movement. I started the campaign what makes You Visionary coincided with the ability not disability, and everything centered around Yeah, taking the power back and the focus away from putting all that energy onto a disability and instead focusing on ability.
Because that's where I've achieved the best.
Things in my life is when I haven't really focused about my blindness. I don't wake up in the morning and think, oh wow, I'm blind or I can't see, and yeah, I might bump into a wall or make my morning cup of coffee with orange juice instead of milk. But like, I still go, I do that quite often. I do that more than I'd like to admit, I'll
tell you. But yeah, that's where the biggest achievements have happened in my life is not yet not living my life conducted by the thought and the label of oh I'm disabled or I'm blind, and it's all focused on yet the ability. And that's not to say that it takes away from equity, Like we all need the supports to be able to thrive in life. It's not to take away from anything because I still use heaps of technology. I'd be lost without it. I use triple tag zoom
on any computer device. I use screen readers. I've recently partnered with a company in the US called Iris Vision, and they do headset technology with screens really close to your eyes. And because it's so close to my eyeballs, I can actually see quite well. So I use technology. I use so many devices so I can be able to do the things that.
My peers do.
But yeah, it's all with a focus on ability, and you get that, you get the job done. So in a nutshell, a very drawn out nutshell, that's sort of what I do.
I don't think you know what. I don't think you know what a fucking nutshell is. Mane, let's be honest. But no, that's amazing, that's amazing, No, honestly, all silliness. Guide. You're an inspiration. It's great, it's great.
And then yeah, I had the privilege of meeting Tiffany back in May, so that's been fantastic.
Got to be the highlight, doesn't it.
Oh, definitely one of them for sure. Yeah.
Well mate, well mate, you are indeed in inspiration. All right, let me circle back and ask you a few things. Thank you for that synopsis that overview that It was great though, because I love it when I can sit back and somebody can just share their story very, very efficiently and effectively. All right, So tell me about tell
me about the intervention. So like when we think of interventions, we often think of somebody who's struggling with addiction and the family comes in and goes, listen, Champ, this is not working. You need to get your shit together, or we need to get you in rehab or some kind of therapy. What tell me about the intervention. What led your family to do that, What was happening, and how did you feel about that and respond to that, and
what did the intervention. I mean, you told us a bit about sessions, but tell us about that point in time.
Yes, yeah, for sure.
So the reason that started it is my mental health was just bottom of the barrel. It was full depression, full anxiety, and probably also OCD mixed in with that. So I was very anxious and just very depressed. And I also really turned to food at that time as a copy mechanism. I really sort of ate myself almost towards an early grave. So at the time when the family intervention style thing did happen. I was almost one hundred and fifty kilos. In fact, i'd stopped buying myself because the scale.
Wouldn't even weigh me. So that's something I'm quite proud of.
Over recent years, I've really changed my lifestyle in health ways, because, yeah, throughout my teenage years I was very morbally obese, and at that point I was just I was very sick. I was living on three different pills a day just to slow down my heart rate. So that's pretty scary to be, you know, eighteen years old or seventeen years old and to be on three medications just to slow your heartbeat. Was also taking i think two medications at the time for blood pressure, which is just not a
life to be living. So I was incredibly anxious. I was incredibly depressed, and the sort of well is me mentality about my blindness, and then I guess, yeah, the comfort. The comfort for that was the food, so it was the overeating. So it was a combination of so many things. It was definitely, yeah, some health struggles and definitely mental health.
But the conversation initially looked like a conversation around the dinner table and of course, when you know my parents, When my family voiced their concerns and they wanted the best for me, of course I pushed back. I didn't want to have the call with the cancer. I didn't want to you know, I'm fine all this and that everyone else is the issue. I'm not the problem. Everyone else is the issue. That's very much how I saw it. But anyway, I did persevere, and it wasn't It wasn't
straight away. It probably took me three or four weeks of me pushing back and then maybe letting them in a little bit, and then pushing back a little bit more. But actually I did go to my first appointment, and quite instantly I did feel very comfortable with the counselor.
She's an amazing woman, and even to this day I still do have conversations and catch up, so probably more so as a friend now and sort of the similar fields and careers that we were in, but definitely an incredible experience and the ten free sessions that worked out, and I definitely I couldn't recommend it more.
If it's still a thing that is.
Offered to people, it really just allowed me to unpack some of the mindset shifts so you know, I didn't have the knowledge or the skills to even understand that some of the reasons I was acting was because of my anxiety or maybe some of the thoughts and the opinions that I had for possibly even being called a retard or the four eyes or being bullied in school. Like, there were so many different things that I didn't even have knowledge or ways to unpack.
So being able to.
Sit there and go, hmm, I don't actually have to believe that, I don't have to assign meaning to that thought.
I can just let it pass.
Go about my dad because I guess, yeah, definitely definitely. Back in my early teenage years and leading up to my crisis, essentially I would get latched on to every thought and it would snowball and I would Yeah, I was a hypochondriact. I was always concerned that I was dying too. Yeah. I would always tell myself that I was dying of lakemia, dying of a brain shreamer.
There were so many things that it.
Was really bad, that was so bad that I actually there was one day I just had a little bit of dirt on my arm. Now, obviously I do have low vision too, so I might not seeing it as much. But I went up to someone and I was like, look at this bruise on my arm. I've got cancer. I'm gonna die. Like that's how hysterical I was. And someone just white the.
Dirt off my arm and they go, Matt, that's dirt.
So I was really, like I said earlier, it was really like lights were.
On but no one was home.
Like I was just on autopilot of fight and flight mode for sure.
That Matt, do you think thank you? Do you think that? Because like you're a fucking maye in communicator dude, Like I'm sure you've been told that, and yeah, you can talk well and you've got a good voice.
But.
Your ability and I'm sure you've you've refined it over time. But for a twenty eight year old navigating the world with a disability and doing what you do and also with lots of great abilities on top of your one disability, but like you're an amazing communicator and share of thoughts
and ideas and storyteller. Do you think the fact that your vision is so limited that all your other senses and skills have kind of become better than Like I'm thinking, I wonder if this bloke could see normally, if it'd be such a great communicator because you have to rely so much on listening, whereas we can. I always say to people, and this is an indictment on me, I say, pay attention to a little bit of what people say
and all of what they do. You know, like, I'm more interested in what I see than what I hear sometimes, But you don't have that luxury. I feel like the fact that you can't see what TIF and I and most of our listeners can see. You've had developed this like almost auditory superpower where you can here but also see with your ears, if you know what I mean.
No, I one hundred percent.
And I love that you said that, because, in all honesty, if I did have twenty twenty vision, I don't think I would be as an effective as a communicator. I don't even think I would be doing anything in the sort of what I'm doing right now. So I actually love that I've got Stargus's disease. I think it makes me the person that I am today. I would never change it for the world. So that's definitely a contrast
to years and years ago, for sure. But as although it does, it is meant to be a myth on paper that you know, any other sense is enhanced because you lose one. But for the people that I've spoken to and from my own experience, I do think that it is true. Like I definitely pick up on energy so much more than I get I think other people do.
Like so when I walk into a room or if I'm doing a presentation, I'm not seeing the facial expressions, I'm not seeing the audience, so I'm picking up on vibe ships and then I'm thinking, Okay, well this is where I need to go with my story or this is where I need to go now. So I'm a big believer, and people will forget what you said, people will forget what you tell them, but they'll never forget
how you made them feel. So I'm a big believer in that, and I guess as far as the communication goes, it would be Yeah, me ten thousand hours.
I'm a big believer in that.
You've got a craft that put your ten thousand hours in. I've been doing this since twenty sixteen, probably on a professional scale since twenty twenty. So yeah, working towards you always got more to learn. I will never ever leave a talk or I'll never have a conversation with someone and think, oh wow, I nailed that. If anything, I'm always going through and thinking how can I make that better?
Or how can I learn more with that? Like I'm always wanted to get better.
I never sit back and think, oh, yeah, that was bloody awesome. So I feel like that's a good quality to have, probably as well, because I'm always thinking and I'm maybe not like, not that great, so then I'm trying to even become better, which is a good still skill. But yeah, definitely, I definitely have what's it cold when it's hearing, but you can kind of hear what you want to not hear. There's a word for its, selective hearing.
Good one tip. Yeah, I definitely have selective hearing. Don't get me wrong, but I can definitely hear conversations that happening in other rooms where other people would just go.
Completely off the top of their head.
A few years ago, I was actually on a trip with a bunch of friends and I could just yeah, hear the conversation in the other room and I just made a funny joke and they were blown away to.
Think that, how did you hear that?
Are you like ears drop and I'm like, no, honestly, I'm just sitting here, but I can hear it. And I just think that's because I'm not giving much energy to my eyes. I really it's hard to explain because people do think I still really use my vision and what I can see, but a lot of the time I am so on autopilot. We're just getting from A to B, and I kind of know my bearings and I really do switch my eyes off. I'm not really paying much attention to anything that's coming through, and it is.
It's all on sound and vibes, honestly, sound and energy.
I think also, like you said that, maybe technically your hearing doesn't get literally better, but I think what you do with your hearing changes because you're not distracted by seeing shits that like you are hanging. It's like if I go I had this epiphany a few years ago, mate, because I sit in front of a lot of people and talk to a lot of people, and I realized that, you know, there's a difference between being a good talker
and a great communicator. Right, A lot of people can talk, but they're terrible at connection and communication and creating a great interpersonal experience, and I realized that I wasn't terrible at my job, but I don't think I was great, And I probably over talked a little bit, like I think for me, if I'm coaching someone, if I'm one on one, it sull be about ten percent me ninety percent them in terms of the talk time, right, but it was probably more like thirty seventy, so too much.
But also I realized that I wasn't always fully present. And I can't remember what precipitated it, but I had this moment where I went, how I'm become going to become much better at this is by you know, when that hour starts or whatever the session is. You know, it's like done over two thousand podcasts, right with this show and some other shows that I did.
It's amazing effort, your kicking goals, many thanks.
Man, thanks, but just being able to go all right, and I'm talking with Matt at twelve thirty, and at twelve thirty, I'm fully present. I'm not looking at my phone, I'm not thinking about other things. I'm not distracted like you do your twelve or fifteen minute monologue at the start, which I fucking loved, but I'm fully present, I'm writing notes, I'm listening. And I think when you whatever it is, whether it's with your hearing or your vision or some other sense, but.
You you can kind of fine tune that, you can develop that and you block out the shit that you don't need to hear or pay attention to, and then like really focus and even though you're technically you're hearing is not better, but you're actually hearing a lot more.
Because of what you're paying attention to. Is that right? Or is that in the ballpark?
No, that's one hundred percent right, harps. And Also I'd like to elaborate that when I'm listening to people talking, right, rather than my eyes catching the visual cues, I'm actually appy. So if anything, rather than using my eyes, I'm also painting a picture to make the story that that individual is telling me even clearer. So I do think I sort of subconsciously extremely actively listen and I am painting the picture of the sort of missing pieces of that puzzle.
So in my brain.
But because yeah, I definitely believe when I am in a lot of situations, I'm just there. I'm in the room, I'm with the person. I'm not really seeing too much, and for what I can see, it's nothing to really even yeah, because it's so blurry, I'm not really going
to put my energy towards that. So I do think that allows me to be with people or to kind of absorb more information than others, because sometimes it might be a little bit overstimulating, so a little bit of the information just goes over top of people's heads.
That Yeah, what how can I ask you? Just I'm an exercise scientist. I'm interested in the height and the physical health and all that shit. Right, So how tall are you? Oh?
I think I would be like maybe one seventy centimeters. I would have to like measure myself.
Okay, so yeah at one round one, at one fifty, you're at one hundred and fifty kilos.
You're a very big boy, right, Oh yeah, yeah I was. I would have been.
I classed myself and definitely the doctors classed me at that time.
Is more but the obese. Yeah, and what did you get down to? Because you look healthy and fit and strong like, well.
I'm actually I'm probably about currently right now, I'm probably about ten kilos heavier than what I would love to be. I have been about ten kilos lighter than I am now, which was around about eighty kilos. That was the fittest I've been, So that was, yeah, probably my biggest weight loss. And now I do hob around the ninety mark. My body is comfortable there. But I did love it a few years back when I did get down to eighty because you know, I felt the rip this I'd ever been.
I was going to the beach without the shirt on, and it was that was the first that was such a big experience for me to be going to a beach without me top on. Wow, that was massive for me because I'd like never done that before. I was always so self conscious of taking my shirt off. So yeah, to be able to kind of be fit and feel normal, just like, you know, in a normal body, that was amazing. So yeah, but yeah, around eighty to ninety I sort of now, but yeah, I'd like to get back there
for sure. I've got to pull we figure out, so to speak, get me ars in the gear and get running because I actually am planning to do run Melbourne next year as well. So I did the five k last year, I want to do the ten k this year coming. So yeah, I got to get back into running for sure.
Well, and so when you're running, like, how does that work? How does that work? Do you run with a partner? Do you just bump into shit constantly?
So I when I'm in locally, so when I'm back home in Horsham, I know the surrounds of Horseham.
I've lived in our entire life, and I've had the luxury also.
Growing up in town when I did have twenty twenty vision, so I have great muscle memory of kind of where things are. So I can quite comfortably go for a run or go for a walk around our river because it's got a nice pathway. It's quite nice, and I can get myself from A to B pretty well.
They're unassisted.
If I was to go for a walk or a run somewhere in the city or a suburb in Melbourne, I yeah, especially if I was going for a run, I would want to go with someone, Especially the first few times. I wouldn't just sort of will and literally just go for a run and see where I get to.
And I definitely still could, but I feel.
Like, yeah, if you wanted to do it on like a professional level kind of thing and actually do it consistently, I would like to sell up a routine with someone. But yeah, around locally, Yeah, I know my bearings pretty well. That's not to say I don't get lost every now and then. Occasionally I kind of go off path and I'm sort of in amongst the sticks and I think.
Oh, hold on, I think I'm a little bit shrew with here.
It was actually funny too, because earlier this year I was going for a run. Back when I did, it was one hundred k away for Vision Australia, so it was April, and I was running up towards and I thought there was this big stick on the ground and then as I ran over the top of it, I saw it move. So it was actually a brown snake. So that kind of wigged me out a little bit. That was the first time I'd seen a snake that close in the sort of wild.
But yeah, or.
More specifically, hadn't seen a snake. I've seen us seen a sticky mate like in the old days. I don't know if this is still a term, so excuse my ignorance. I've got l plates on for this conversation because I don't know is the term legally blind? Is that still a term?
Yes, yeah, I still use it. That's how I refer to myself quite often.
So what qualifies somebody to be legally blind? Like what percentage of vision or how does that work?
Yes, so depending if you're in America or Australia, there's different eye charts and different signals depend on what you are. But essentially it's if you look at the eye chart at an optometrist and you can't see the very big top number. So if you can't see that sitting in the optometrists chair from the distance you're sitting, that means that you have lost significant vision and you're class legally blind. So that essentially means you have twenty two hundred vision.
So that means that what someone could see often to the distance from two hundred meters away, you would only be able to see from twenty.
Meters away, and it would be a lot blurrier than what someone with twenty twenty vision would see.
In America, they actually go by twenty sixty vision, so they would say that sixty meters away, someone that could see something off into the distance sixty meters you would only be able to see.
From about twenty meters.
So that's the very baseline of legal blindness and then yeah, you can still definitely continue to lose more vision after that. But yeah, very few people are considered completely blind, which that isn't actually the term. It's called NLP, so no light perception, and that's when you have no vision whatsoever.
But yeah, that's probably.
Yeah, less than ten percent of people that are considered yeah blind or legally blind would have no light perception. So yeah, quite a lot of us will still see some colors some light. But for me personally, if I'm outside, I have to wear pretty dark sunglasses because yeah, it look like I watched like a romcom or some mighty sad movie for two hours.
My eyes just start crying in the sun.
If you and I were let's say, I don't know, if we're in a room and I'm in front of you, I'm three meters away from you, and it's a pretty well lit room, what are you going to see?
So I would be able to see the color of your shirt and pants, probably, I don't know if I would be able to differentiate, Say, if you're wearing a blue pair of jeans and a black shirt, my eyes just might pick it up as a dark navy color mixed together. So I might be able to see sort of the shape of your body kind of thing. I would be able to see the shape of your head. But most people, when I look at their their face, it usually is just sort of a mix of their yeah,
their skin color sort of mixed in. I can't see sort of eyeballs or facial features.
Nose, mouth, that sort of thing.
I do see a little bit better out of my peripheral vision. So something that is worth mentioning is that the bulk of my blindness is my central vision.
So when I look directly on at.
People right in the face, so you know, respectfully, we make eye contact with people when we speak to them.
So I still actually do that to this day.
I will look at people in the eye, but it's only for the other person's benefits, so they think that I'm respectful because I can't actually see when I look at them in the eye that way direct on, I would actually be better off kind of looking side on. And I do see a little bit clearer out of my peripheral vision, it's still not super clear. It's not like twenty twenty, or I wouldn't be able to probably tell someone, oh, you've got green eyes or you've got
blue eyes. I wouldn't be able to do that, but yeah, it's a little bit better than looking dead on.
Well, if I want to give you any shit, I'm going to stand straight in front of you for sure. Thanks, thanks, thanks for the heads up. So let's just weel back to the first time you went. I don't know if it was the first time you went to an optometrist, but I don't know what on earth would I mean.
I know you're not lying, I know it's true, but I can't I almost can't believe that a medical professional, an optimologist would say, would call you, would tell your mum that you're a retard, because when you have a legitimate, serious issue with your eyes, not only do they not figure that out, they insult you. I mean, apart from how that was for you, which was fucking horrible, and like,
I don't even understand how that happened. Was there any firstly, well, tell us about how that was for you in a minute. But before we get there, was there any consequences, because I want to punch that person in the face.
Definitely, there was definitely a few stern words, you know, from your mother's and definitely I was probably yes, seven or at the time, so I didn't really understand that the weight of the words that were said.
It really kind of affected me a few years after.
I really feel like that's when it started to affect me, those couple of experiences getting my diagnosis.
But yeah, it was probably six months before that.
We'd had multiple different diagnosises and dyslexia, and then you get the bifocal glasses, and then you know, you get all these different tests and they were all pretty fine but didn't lead to any answers, and then yeah, we had the sort of the specialist appointment and I can say that he is no longer practicing. It wasn't I didn't personally or our family didn't personally put in a complaint or anything like that.
But it wasn't the since learning.
Otherwise, it's not the first experience of being called retired, Like I wasn't the first person where who's had that experience with that particular optometrist. So really, yeah, this is back in two thousand and six too, so it was a bit of a different time.
People really did feed into the stereotype.
So I rocked up at the optometrist appointment, and I didn't I guess I didn't look blind.
I didn't have a cane, I didn't have.
A guide dog or the real dark sunni is at the time, And because I could still be quite independent, it was like they couldn't understand, like, if you're saying you can't see, well, how are you doing this?
So then I guess it really frustrated them.
And it was also a combination of it, Yes, starguts not having much research or not being easily detectable, that really, I guess, yeah, infuriated him. It kind of reminds me of I tell people, especially when I'm I guess at younger school groups, I say, you know the movie inside.
Out with all the different characters.
You've got happiness, you've got joy, you've got sadness, and anger. Well, he reminded me of anger that day, Like I really felt like you could feel the steam coming out of his ears.
And yeah, I feel like it probably did affect my mother.
And my family more at the time that experience than it did personally me. I have found out in later years that that was quite challenging for mum and she was very upset, and so with my grandparents at the time, And so you do learn after the fact.
Hindsight, it's a beautiful thing. I guess.
Yeah, my family, I suppose tried to protect me or shield me a bit from that side of things, and I guess they were so shocked to think that I'd been cold, a retard or it was directed at mum, but I was there present. I feel like they did that really did sort of scare them into the next steps of Okay, well, how do we get a diagnosis? But yeah, we were lucky enough that we did find the amazing fresh out of Uni passionate ophthalmologist, and yeah,
we got the diagnosis. And it is important to note that Stargut's disease, the gene that is connected to Stargus's disease, was only discovered in nineteen ninety six, so they hadn't had a hell of a lot of time to really research it.
In a heap of detail. And when I was diagnosed yet, it was in two thousand and five.
Two thousand and six was that period of the diagnosis journey, So it was only yeah, nine or ten years since they'd really understood what Stargus's disease is.
So you know, what I think is what I think is ironic is that that he I don't even want to say the word right, but he laid you that right.
But ironically, I would have I think you were probably much smarter than average, not even average, but way smarter than average because people couldn't even tell that you had a disability, Like you navigated life without this incredibly important ability that nearly everyone has, and you were so good at faking it for one of a better word and problem solving, like you're navigating the world not being able to fucking see and people don't even know. I mean,
that's a whole different kind of intelligence. Like that's social intelligence, that's emotional intelligence, communication like that is that is so the fact that you figured out how to do that so that people couldn't even tell you how to disability at such a young age, it's kind of amazing.
Yeah, I really do.
Actually, Like in hindsight, I look back and I think, you know, the mental health side of things and the depression and that side of things that was, you know, a byproduct of my experiences that you know, it definitely shaped me into the person I am. But I wouldn't go back and wish it upon any young person because it was.
A horrible time in my life.
But you know, that's why I do what I do now, is that so I can bring others out of their shell and then still confidence in others. But yeah, definitely at the time, I look back now and I do think that because I didn't want people.
To know that I was going blind, in a way, it did really.
Allow me to almost be like I sort of referred to it as like, you know, the undercover blind person or the you know, the Bruce Wayne of blindness. And yeah, I don't regret it at all, because you know, I just lived. I just woke up every day. In my family. I was never treated as someone who was blind. So that was also a really good benefit because I just lived normally, So there was none of that sort of
bubble rat gold star approach. But it was because I didn't it happened, and in a way it did take away from sort of me being able to connect with certain people, and you know, it did turn into that victimhood mentality. But now I'm in a place where I am today, I actually kind of redefined that chapter in my life and I actually think that it had it gave me the skills to this day, I still navigate very well, I'm still very independent and very confident, and.
I really do feel like it.
It's so hard to describe, but yeah, there's so many things that you just learn how to adapt, and I don't get it right all the time. Sometimes I'll see a blob and I'll think, oh, that's the fridge door, and then it turns out to be a microwave or something.
So there's definitely things that I completely mess up. But for the most part, all those years of really trying to yeah, not be known as the person that was losing their vision, Yeah, it really helped me to be able to navigate around pretty much undercover, even to this day.
A lot of people, if I walked past someone down the main street, if I didn't tell them that I was, you know, losing vision or something, or if they didn't see me try to get my phone out and read a menu with my screen or eader on, they.
Would have no idea.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, what do you what's the This is a selfish question, NA, what's what's the what's the deal with guide dogs?
When do we get a puppy? Is there is there like do you qualify for a guide dog?
Or I've got I've got currently a little guide dog at home that's not actually a proper guy dog.
I call him Boris the Bastard. He's a true Hour.
So my sister got a dog a few years back at the start of COVID.
And it latched onto me.
So now I'm the owner of a four year old Chu Hour, So I'm stuck with him until I'm probably blenty forty, but definitely the definitely in the future, when I'm older or my next dog, I will definitely look into getting a guide dog. How it works is so you first do cane training, so you do accessibility training, and you learn.
How to use a cane.
Now I did that years and years ago, and I only to this day still only use a cane in situations where I'm very unfamiliar, so maybe like an airport or when I arrive at Melbourne at Southern Cross station, I'll get my cane out that sort of thing. But for the most part, I even to this day, still don't use a cane a hell of a lot. But definitely you first start with the cane training and then you can if you want.
To look in to get in a guide dog.
There are sort of characteristics or credentials to get a guide dog, you have to be significantly visually impaired. But I would definitely fit that criteria, but I just haven't looked into it personally myself. But definitely in the future, Yeah, I'll definitely get a guide dog in some chapter of my life. But yeah, currently at the moment, I've got a two hour.
Yeah that seems more like a problem than a fucking assistance. Oh yeah, it seems like they're going to add work to your day.
I never would have like, I love him now, of course because he's more but I would have never personally like to how I used always want like.
A corgy or a pug or something.
But yeah, definitely, though in the future I want to guide dog. And as my vision does progress, because it is a progressive disease, so you know, when I am forty and when I am fifty, my starguts disease. There is a high chance it's quite stable at the moment, which I'm very grateful for. It's been quite stable for many years, but it will continue to degenerate and then as I do age, my vision naturally will get a little bit a little bit shot over the years as well.
So in the future I think it will definitely be one hundred percent beneficial for me to have a guide dog, but I can't see it happening.
Yeah, in the next.
Few years while I got my hands full with Yeah, boris the bastard, that's for sure.
Well, boris the bastard. Now, speaking of speaking of relationships, can I be cheeky and ask you about relationships? Are you track? Are you tracking steady as the old people say with anyone?
No, I'm single as a at the moment, But over the years I had a few sort of friends and benefits kind of deal and a few nice but yeah, at the moment, yeah, single as a pringle.
Friends with benefits, you heard it here first, friends with Well, I think we're looking more than that, Matt. I think we're looking for some kind of you know, Hey, mate, you're a gun. It's fucking so nice meeting you. You're funny, you're clever, you're an inspiration. Tell my audience about how they can connect with you, or if they want to book you for an event or to work with their team or their company or their school. How do they go about that?
Oh, one hundred percent? Well, you can find me by typing into Google. Matt Degricci Vision or you can type in MDV. I'm also on the social so Instagram and Facebook, YouTube LinkedIn all that stuff. I do also post my stuff on TikTok. I don't personally use it because I personally and bias against and I think that app is
the devil. But that's that's the day and age believe, so I've got to post my content on there so you can find me across all the platforms at Matt Degricci Vision and on my website at mattd Degoucci vision dot com. But I just I should also say I have the I suppose the unprivilege of having sharing the same name as another person whose name is Matt de Grucci, who is a serial killer who murdered his family. So I have had the battle over the past eight years
since doing my own disability and blindness advocacy. That yeah, the Google results when you type in Matt de Grucci, you will probably be met with a few pages of the serial killer version that's not me. Please don't get it confused, because you would be surprised how many dms and our website messages I get saying you're going to hell, You've you've committed crimes against humanity, and I'm like, that's the wrong Matt.
That's the wrong Matt. But you can find me for sure.
I know I did the exact same thing. He's absolutely everyone. Because I had a bit of you know what happens is because I do a podcast every day, Melissa or Tiff sends me through some info and I just read a bit of an overview or a bio or a synopsis, and then it was quite short. I'm like, okay, cool, And then I thought I'd just jump into you know, doctor Google, and then this fucking person who killed his family. I'm like, what have we got this bloke done for?
It's not the thank god, it's not the same.
I'm working on it.
I'm trying to get my name to appear higher on Google than the serial killer version of my name.
So that's a work in progress.
Yeah, that is. That is kind of terrifying but funny all at the same time. Hey, Mabel, well say goodbye fair but for the moment, Thanks so much, Matt. We appreciate you and you're genuinely an inspiration, and thanks so much for what you're doing and all the work that you're doing and sharing insights and stories and information and helping people with disability as well. It's amazing.
No, thank you for having me Harts, and thank you Tiff, it's been great. Thank you, thank you,