I'll get our you, bloody champions, Welcome to another installing the you project. It's me, It's fucking Harps. It's Tiff. There we are. Four seconds in there's a swear word. A few people are jumping out. Hi, Tim high Harps. Now, who do you reckons more of a chance of getting a cuddle? Me or you?
From our great game?
It breaks my heart.
It's me.
I think it's you.
I reckon. It's both of us. It's both of us, and I think both of us would like a hug. It's a pity. It's geographically impossible at the moment. Oh look he's blushing, mate, how are you going?
Well, look I'm a cuddler, so I don't shake hand.
I'll take your hand, but I'll give you both a cuddle regardless of orientation.
So there you go.
Were fan fantastic, fantastic. I am one of my mates. Was in the gym last night sitting on the upright vertical bench and he was doing shoulder press and he had reasonably heavyweights. And I walked in and I sat on I straddled him like fucking koala on a tree. There it is to.
Showing a photo of this. That's amazing. Who was there taking the photo?
Mate? So I straddled him like a koala on a tree and it was fun. You know, I need everyone needs a bit of love, mate.
Physical touch, the love language, mate, we need it.
What is your speaking of that book? Like you've obviously read that book or you're at least you're familiar with the love languages.
I used to teach it to the new Commando officers after they passed the Commando selection course and.
Pass over all the scripture.
But replace the word love with motivational value, and it's a way to sort of tap into some extra emotional intelligence, particularly the special force of the world of needing to win over and influence people.
One hundred percent. So let's just let's just I didn't well, actually didn't have a plan. As you know, I never have a p It's good, here we go, So let's just go through them. So quality time is one physical touch, words of affirmation.
Give receiving gibs an act of service?
Yeah, acts of service. So let's start with you, boxer, you fucking pugilist in the top left corner on my screen. What what do you reckon? Your love language is? Actually? Can I tell you what I think.
Oh, oh, I reckon yours.
Yours is from me, from me. What is love for me? For you is words of affirmation.
That is correct.
How you receive love is words of affirmation.
Yeah, from me.
She gives us.
Because I'm her mentor she wants, which everyone does. I'm the same. She wants a people and a verbal hug love a verbal she doesn't like. She doesn't like an actual hug. She's you haven't heard me say this, but she constantly when she's in the well anywhere. Really, she wears a baseball cap with give us a hug and a te a T shirt says, but fuck off.
Though that was Tim two point oh, this is Tiff three point oh. And he's an interesting fact. If I if my love language is actually reflective of me and my animals, it's definitely physical touch, maybe just because there's two.
Remember there's too, so the way you feel love and then the way you show love the two different love languages.
Usually Yeah, but you like being loved by animals because they're not going to fucking break your heart and lie to you and bullshit you, right, I mean that's the same with everyone. That's everyone.
They're authentic they're actually authentic.
There's no ulterium motive except for maybe some food and some hugs.
Absolutely, did you get.
That thing on? I didn't send it to you. I should send it to both of you. It's just this
dude talking about how horses communicate. This is irrelevant. Who knows where we're going on this show, But like this guy who's a genuine horse whisperer and he's talking about how, you know, basically humans are predators and horses in the wild are prey and so they you know, apart from the fact that they don't speak human, we don't speak horse, and so it takes them along like their love part of their love languages being trust is being able to
trust humans and it takes them a long time. And yeah, interesting love.
It was something in there.
I mean, we do a lot of equine therapy in the veteran community to help people with trauma and stuff, and it's you know, that trust and that connection.
I think that is the core part that really shines through.
Yeah, I think a lot, like a lot of people say that that once you have a connection with a horse, it's almost supernatural. There's something special going on. Yeah, I think horses are smarter than we think.
Well, I think that's also a respect piece there, because like a horse would actually kick the shit out of you, you know, it's actually yeah, there's not. You don't have this physical superiority to them as we do most animals, especially in Australia.
Yeah, yeah, what about your love language? TIF Like, what do you what do you get from like your mum and your dad? What is it?
I reckon my mom? Is I reckon gifts? She likes she likes giving gifts? What's that called?
What do you want from? What do you want?
Just the same? Words of affirmation is usually a thing? Yeah? What about how do you show love to them? How do you like showing love to people?
Don't mate, punch in the face.
Come on, Like what makes you feel good? Do you like doing things for people?
Do things for people?
Acts of service? I thought you might like.
Giving gifts, but I get a bit stressed about giving the right gift. So I hate Christmas. I hate buying gifts because I want the gift to be specially and always feel stressed about it.
I reckon that acts of services you like towards me? Because like sometimes like we might do something like this, mate, where we have a chat and then and now a later Tif will send me a reel that she's made of this, which is really good that she didn't have to do. It's not she doesn't.
Have a pick.
I definitely pick Tiff. As an access service I'm the same. I'm an access service person. I like to feel value by doing things for people.
Yeah, I have this innate thing to protect people that I love. I don't know, I think maybe that falls into acts of service, Like I'm very almost like stupidly territorial about people I love.
No, I'm the same. It's a protecting instinct. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. So you've had a quiet So you've had a quiet year.
Yeah, it's been interesting. It's been quite interesting the last twelve months. Almost not much on, not much on.
Ah, honestly, it's you know, there's been there's been sprints, but there's been a lot of bliant time as well.
Been it's been an interesting.
Yeah.
I thought twenty twenty was really.
Going to be my year, and instead it's been one of the biggest learning curve of the year that I've ever had a long in time.
To be honest, what have you learned?
Well, so my court case against the ABC finished October last year, and I won. You know, they were found the ABC and two of their journalists were personally found guilty of defamation. And you know, I want to pay out, and they did it so badly. They had to pay for all of my legal costs. It costs millions and millions of dollars attacks Player fund. But I sort of just then expected the everything else to flow through.
I just expected.
What was the original thing I asked for where I took them to court was an apology for my soldiers, for our families, and for me and my families. And getting an apology has literally been the bridge too far for them.
I had to then, you know, I had a few ages up my sleeve.
They published this story, they added gunshots to this combat footage, they changed it, they added circles, They did all these incredible things that I didn't think I'd have to then pull out of the back as well as take them to the federal court.
But I did a whole documentary with Channel seven Spotlight revealed it all.
And all that's happened is for the next six months has been just as what I say is the biggest campaign of gas lighting and ask covering I've ever seen. And again, even when they had to fess up and say, yes, we did edit the footage, they literally issued an apology to all the members of the Second Commander Regiment, which I love, but refused to issue any personal apology to Heston Russell. It's a classic media play, you know, don't
give someone an attention by actually saying their name. And I get it if you know, we were enemies, if it was someone a company that had money to be made, But it's our ABC, it's the ABC IU tip everyone.
We literally pay our taxes to boards. So I've really gone through this bracter in well. I went through this period where I was like.
All of these morals and values and standards that I was brought up with and trained in the military, are they really just only relevant for the military? Am I actually completely out of place in regular society? Is my mindset going to life after service completely dysfunctional? Am I just shitting myself on the foot by having these expectations of, you know, people simply being good, people having integrity, being honest.
But then sort of the pendulum has shifted back because I'm stopped on the streets by just lovely people every day, police officer day having a coffee just saying hey, you know I saw your okay, so listen to podcasts this.
I want you to know like you have our support.
But for me and my mastery is leadership. You know, I was trained to be a Special Force as leader, to spend four years studying leadership before I was allowed to.
Be in charge of anyone.
And I've just really been disillusioned by the leadership of not a single person from Defense speaking out even when we proved the ABC added gunshots to footage. You know, not a single politician, you know, Albow stood next to me when we won the campaign for the Royal Commission when it was good for him and boats. You know, not a single person from the ABC willing to apologize
to Heston Russell and his family. So, you know, I went through a period where, you know, I just went through a big depressive period to be honest, and I just wanted to get out of Australia. I went over to the US for a few months. I tried to build a new life there. I got a new boyfriend that all fell through in a very rapid weight as well.
So yeah, it's been a fascinating year. But I'm back, I'm energized, and I'm putting all my efforts and energy into my book that I'm looking to probably self publish in the next few months to be able to get this all out in detail. And perhaps he who has the last word, has the last laugh or something, how does that thing go?
Who knows who has the last laugh wins or something?
What are you think?
I think? You know? It is really interesting because I find this culturally too, like where I call them cults of thought, mate, cults have thought, where people live in cognitive, emotional, political echo chambers.
Right, Yeah, what the what the fuck is.
Wrong with going? Hey? I fucked up or we fucked up? What is so hard about going? I used to think A and now I think B. But the truth is that people me included I get I probably fuck up three things an episode, and we've done seventeen hundred, so that's five thousand fuck ups conservatively. I'll probably say something stupid or incorrect, right, But I know that, and I own it and I acknowledge it, and I'm still flawed. But why why do you think the ABC can't just
go Look, we got it wrong. We're real sorry, what is that.
Yeah, No, I'm with you, great, Like mistakes and failure are what we spent most of our time on in the military, learning the lessons learn and putting them into practice and not do it again, and you know, writing them down and being.
Public with them, because that's where it growth.
It's just come down to and even what the judge said at the end of my verdict, it's come down to this cultural war and come down to this attitude where the ABC adopts any criticism as a fence and vigorously attacks and defends their position as opposed to objectively
being what they're supposed to be. Like we're having this conversation this last week, the new chair of the ABC, Kim Williams, stood up in front of the Press Council and took a swipe at Joe Rogan, you know, talking about misinformation disinformation like the biggest podcasts in the world, and then the journalists were asking him, you know, how can you make that comment up of your organization literally has been found to have you change footage, added gunshots.
And the biggest issue to me, mate, has been that they appointed one of their own former executives to do this independent inquiry, which by even the term independent is not independent, you know, and they said that it was an error. Someone accidentally added extra gunshots into this footage.
Like it's just it's.
Insane and all that I'm learning. I've learned two things, you know. One camera is a bit and she slaps hard when she comes back around.
Two and two.
Like these people, literally, like you said, mate, in an echo chamber. This dude, Kim Williams, he stood up and said, you know, can't stand Joe Rogan. I don't listen to him at all, but then proceeded to tell everyone why Joe Rogan was so bad. You're the head of a media organization who just admitted that you haven't personally listened to or researched this guy, but you're able to make an opinion that you're going to tell the entire press councils ahead of our ABC. So these people are in
their own echo chambers. They do think they're out of breach. They're this boudoir elite that just need a reality check, and I really do feel that is coming soon.
Yeah, it's almost like we need some kind of this is this is a reach, but almost like a spiritual revolution where people just go, you know what, you get stuff wrong, We get stuff wrong, you know, and they like specifically to Joe Rogan. There's not too many people in Australia who've heard more Joe Rogan than me. Right, he's my go to. I was listening to Joe Rogan before I started a show, and that was This has
been around for seven years. I've probably listened to two thousand of his his twenty three hundred or so episodes and agree with everything sometimes, you know, when they're sitting on talking about dope endlessly or comedy that is, or you know, it's like, I don't agree with everything, but you cannot accuse him of not having diverse conversations with diverse and being relatively I love.
It you hear some of the conversations hit there going like, you know, I never thought that way, I never agreed with that, but you provided me with a different perspective, like it's actually an open progressive conversation one hundred percent.
And even with you know, it's like he had Donald Trump on and people like, oh, of course, I had fucking Donald Trump and then he spoke about invite and by the way, everyone that's not political. This is just about then he offered Kamala to come on, and they're like, well, you can interview her, not in your studio, not for
three hours. You have to come to us. You have to be in this environment and here's a list of thirty five things you can't talk about, and it's going to be sixty minutes, and so it was all going to be orchestrated. He's like nah, and then people are like, oh, why didn't you get the other side. It's like, I offered her to come in, but there were so many stipulations and rules that it wouldn't have been an organic conversation, which is what he does.
You know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I'm with her.
I was just I was literally over in the US for Halloween, the election and my birthday was a very very unique time. And I live in a blue from when I have all my friends in blue states over there, and it was really a fascinating time. But yeah, mate, for yeah, the head of the ABC that we all pay for, that's meant to be an unbiased, mutual organization to even stand up and take a swipe at the biggest podcast in the world, like, how is that smart?
How does that reflect on Australia. How does that pditively impact his job?
Like it's just for me, it's just insane, Like this guy is just up in the clouds anyway, And then that helps me really understand why the organization is doing what it's doing, you know, because you know, leadership and culture all starts from the top and close through.
Well, it's like me or you standing up talking about fuck, I don't know about fucking neurosurgery and going you know what, I think, Well, we don't fuck because you're not a neurosurgeon and you've never done an operation, Craig, and you're a dumbass. Like if you, like, if he'd been away and listened to one hundred episodes or even ten episodes of Rogan all the way through, you know, then maybe, but as he said, he's never listened. Like, dude, you're commenting,
I don't know. Some people say that to me. I don't need to listen to him. I'm like, how the fuck you have an opinion about someone you've never met? In inverted comments, I love it.
My favorite these days at Denzil Washington.
What's he saying if you listen or read to the media, if you don't listen or read to the media, you're not informed.
If you do listen or read or listen to them, you're misinformed or unimportant. I don't know.
He's fantastic, but yeah, we're getting away from what is meant to be their core role and function. And what I love in this diversity of free speech world Western world is you know, just like Joe Rogan, you don't like all these episodes, but it's there to provide that variety, and you can tune in, your tune out, and there's nothing to stop you from going and fact checking yourself.
Like even this government Disinformation and Misinformation Bill which got defeated thankfully, you know, they excluded the ABC and others from it, and so many of my friends even in the current parliament, the current sentiment are just like Senate, you've literally just had the tax payer under ABC be found to have done what is by default misinformation and you're going to exclude them from this.
You know.
What I've again taken faith from is that government might keep thinking that they can.
Provide the parental solutions to the people.
At the end of the day, more and more people are just being more and more free thinking, you know, and even this bill about banning teenagers from social media, you know, bros and coins. But at the end of the day, I just have a blatant issue with people in Parliament thinking that they are better parents, that they're better at on both the nutrition, they better advisers on how we should live our lives as opposed to what
their core function is meant to be. And that's like progressing our country and making our standard of life better and easier and more enjoyable and all the rest. I mean, you just have to watch them and see the edicts carry on with its school yard school yard bullshit.
Anyway, Well, no, no, it's all mate. There's no digression because there's no plan. There's no fucking direction on this show. It's the it's the verbal version of a dog with three dicks this show. So we're okay with that. It's the conversational the conversational dog with three dicks. Speaking of nothing to do with that. I was watching you, you know, I watched the Spotlight show doc and but you know, I've been watching you mate, amazing, and I try not to.
I think I sent you a few things, but I try not to because I know you're going to be and undated with shit.
But what I appreciated, mate, I get to everything. I get to everything, I really do.
Yeah, Actually what I wanted was like, you're clearly very resilient and you clearly have got you know, because of your training, and I would think of personality and your nature.
You know, you've got really good skills to be able to deal with shit, you know, as any soldier needs to be able to deal with discomfort and pain and uncertainty and all those things that human beings don't like, the unknown, the uncertain, the unfamiliar, and the uncomfortable. That's
where you live as a soldier. But this is a different type of pain, isn't it going through like public scrutiny where people are publicly saying, essentially, you're a piece of shit who did all these bad things and it's absolutely untrue, but you can't, you know, like and of course you've been vindicated and it's all bullshit and they fuck up and they were dishonest. We get, but there was a period of time where people didn't know that, right, people like that.
Oh yeah, it's a great observation.
I love to dive into this because you know.
My whole psychology sociology came from being a pretty unpopular fact kid at school to being very successful in the military. But in particular, what I was able to achieve during my time throughout my military career was to be very good at my job and very liked by everyone as well.
Like I always put in the work to be good at my job and a good person.
That's the quote and ethought that my sort of dad gave me from his time in the military. And even when we talk about and lecture about and teach leadership, where you often separate leadership from likability to people focused on.
Being liked and impact their job.
But I was always able to be both because I always maintained a lie. My guys even said, there's hesto and there's hest and like you know, I was able to really put in those boundaries. And throughout my entire career in special courses, no one knew what you did
in your outside life. You didn't have social media, your family on knew bits and pieces, but you had all of the maslows hierarchicive needs, plus all of your love languages catered for by the incredible team that you deployed five times to the Middle East and would literally die for because you knew that's what was required, and you love them like you know brothers and sisters. And my
love language is my love language. The way I received love had always been acts of service, had always been sorry equality time, because I love to do things for people, simply being able to be around people and not feel like I have to do things for them, and have people who just wanted.
To hang around with me be with me.
You know, I never was alone once in my career, and then particularly through the last two years, my love language, the way in which I need to feel love is literally changed to words of affirmation because I.
Have had my.
Identity broken down and learned in front of me by those with the means to do so, and being unable to do so myself.
And I've had more people.
Particularly in the gay community here in Sydney wherever, more people come out with hatred towards me online and whatnot who've never actually met me, and that affected me so much because I'd never been so accustomed to people not liking me. Because I genuinely do everything with the right reasons, for the right reasons and responsibly in my opinion, and I put myself last in the order of a lot
of things that I do. So I then had to go through this period, particularly at the end of the court case, you know, when I was able to prove that I was right the whole time in reassessing what was value to me, decluttering my life from all the people who left when the times were bad, and not only allowing a handful back in when the times were good, you know, and yeah, and really understanding more and more about myself. And it's been a really interesting rebuilding phase
from that. But end of the day, and now I'm at a point where I just appreciate you're never going to please everyone, do things for the right reasons, and stop caring so much what people think. And this is the one thing I say to people when they say, oh, so and so said something about you, I'm like, as have they ever met me?
No? Then, like, I don't give a shit.
If I've generally done something or had a mistake, that's great, Give me a call, give me a text, you know, shoot me a DM. Otherwise I do not care about your opinion.
It's so interesting how much people that don't know us or love us, you know, it can affect us. And I'm you know, I think I'm a fair bit better than I used to be. But I might get a hundred comments on something that are good and one that goes you or I can't. I'm like, that's all I pay attention to. And I'm like, I can't sleep because some of.
I love heart. I put a love heart on it. Now I just put a love heart on it. You know.
I did a few months ago. I did what I call a private workshop, which just means it's for twenty twenty five people, not a big workshop. So it was like half a day and anyway, it was probably five dudes, ladies, and so we spend about five hours together. We spend a bit of time together. We do a deep dive and everyone gets to talk and ask questions and it's good. You know, there's tears and snot and hugs and it's pretty good experience. And one of the ladies goes to me,
just it was in the context of the conversation. She goes, my ex husband hates you. She's just like that hates you. I go, oh, goody, what's his name? And she tells me. I go, I don't, I go, do I know him? She goes, oh, no, you've never met. I go, right, so, have I had a chat with him? She's like, no, no, no, you never know. But he hates you. I'm like, oh, okay, why does he hate me? He goes, She goes, because he thinks you broke up our marriage because I started listening to you.
Right, wow, I mean that I've got layers on it.
Yep.
I'm like, so he was a prick and then you you know, I'm like, that is hilarious, like she started standing up for her self, and and because she stood up for her self, and because she wouldn't be treated like a doormat and nothing to do with him, he wasn't fold at all. Like the person responsible for the demise of his marriage was the the blok who's got the podcast. I'm like, how fucking stupid are you? And how self awareness do you not have?
Mate? That's the key part. So when people say that to me, you know, so and so hates you, like cool? Have ever let me know?
My response is I think, well, that's more of a reflection on them than it is me, because I would never make up an opinion on someone without meeting them. But what I've also learned is because I've definitely been in that place as well. People attack because they're either protecting or projecting something that's going on with them. You know, at the end of the day, the energy we're putting
out is coming from a place. So if someone's unhappy with me or angry with me, or do you know, go on Twitter, mate and see there are angry people on there.
Like I now to sit back and go.
Hey, there's something else going on behind the scenes here, and that's not my issue, that's their.
You know, you want to look like an idiot putting these tweets.
They'll come back and you know, haaunt you in five or ten years time, and you go for a job, go nuts.
Especially after going through the court. Some of the best tweets came from.
The ABC what's her brigger name of data dumped it because she's just a waste.
She was the she was the head of the investigations.
I can't remember her name, but anyway, she said, yeah, no, I never said this, I never said this, And then my lawyer just pulls out like her Twitter account and says, well, these sweets say you did, and she literally.
With court lying in the stand it was okay.
So when when she said I didn't say that, and then he produced evidence that she did say that. What did she do? Then?
Yeah, my barrister's sucras ant, what is this?
She was just a hearty.
She was a terrible, terrible person. She was just every answer she had she was like spitting fire out of the you like you just to watch it.
You know.
I was sitting in the back of the court and like, my barister that morning had run me through what she's going to do. And she's like, so, miss Puccini, Joanne Puccini, that's it. She's she's now the head of ABC's investigations.
It incredible.
She's like, so you never said that this article was linked to this one or was never talking about Heston Russell.
And she's like, yeah, that's correct.
She's like cool, Okay, here are your tweets that say Mark Willisy upheld Heston Russell.
Blah blah blah blah.
And you just watched her drop like three or four inches and exhale in the chair and it's just like gotchaw.
My embarrasster too, just looks over her shoulder at me. It just gives me a week and I'm trying to maintain my composure.
You know, people thinking that and this is embarrasses me. In the DAT She's like, the truth comes out. The one thing you'll learn about, you know, good lawyers and legal process is truth comes out. Yeah, and that was even incredible. Mate, Like this, I'm saying, this is all the stuff that's come out. The ABC head of in investigations unit was caught lying on the stand.
But hey, you know, she's probably going to be promoted next week. Who cares.
Hey, I want to talk to you about trust. Tell me about it. I'm just going to go trust. Just if on that for me before I ask a specific question.
Griff On that my personal journey with trust has always been I trust people too far.
I trust. I historically trust people first, and then you lose my trust.
And again, when we spoke about this shift in the last year or so, people really no need to earn my trust because as soon as I trust.
I think the two values for me that are very interlinked.
I trust and loyalty, Like if I trust you, then you have my loyalty. And I think loyalty is probably my strongest value and skill set I'd bring to any sort of relationship.
Yeah, it's I think I did it the other way around? I oh, okay, no, maybe I did know. Maybe I was yeah, yeah, we don't have to be the same, mate, No, no, no, But I did you ask me once if I if you trusted me, and I said not completely because it was early day, or you said you did know?
You said you did, and I was like, right, But I've had trus.
No, no, no, no, I've I've had people that I've known for a while, like you know, and there's no tragedy here or no self pity. But like over the years, especially in my twenties and thirties, I trusted, like, not only trusted, loved some people, like would have pretty much walked over a fucking broken glass for them who did some horrible shit, right, none of it life threatening, but horrible nonetheless. And so for these like these days, I
just takes me quite a while. Doesn't mean I distrust someone. It just means I don't trust them yet. You know, I'm kind of almost on the fence because that, yeah, especially when you.
I think, I don't know, that's important. That's an important back to there.
Mate, Like you said, there's there's not trust and distrust, there's just this area in the middle where you just I'm sure, yes, a lot of people feel like you need to be you don't need to be hostile, you're just you know, not willing to put that food forward yet.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And there's people that I know quite well, you know, but I'm I'm known for a bit, and I still don't. Like I said, yeah, I don't distrust them.
But there are.
People that that I and I'm like, I'm a big baby too. If I fucking love someone, I loved them, and if they do something, I'm fucked. I'm like, oh fuck, because I mean, nobody needs fucking Batty Harps to tell them that loves a motherfucker.
How are you when someone loses your trust? Like, are you done?
Oh? If I don't trust them anymore?
Yeah, distrust them. I'm like, I'm an elephant. I never forget never.
No, I'm like, nah, so yeah, I mean it has to be significant. Like if they fucked up accidentally or incidentally, that's cool. But if they consciously did something, knowingly did something and chose that, and that's have to be pretty bad. But oh yeah, I'm but like, even with the people that have done shit to me over the time, I don't hate anyone like I don't. I pretty much like I hate things that people do, but I don't hate humans like I just don't. I don't give them any
space in my head. You know, it's like, no, I don't hate that person. I just genuinely don't fucking think about them, like I don't, like they take up zero percent of my emotional energy or focus. You know. It's like.
I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire, that's all. Might just a sprinkle just then go sorry, it's all I've got. I'm sixty one. Well I've got.
Did well? Love it?
Fuck and thank you very much. Well what have you? What have you learned about you? Not what have you learned, but what have you learned you in the last year or maybe maybe more than a year, because it's been like you've been through, been through something that most people will never go through.
Yeah, I've learned that I'm where near as resilient as I used to be. And I really understood that that came from, you know, the times where I was in combat, the times where I was life or death, you know the whole career of life or death. I realized I had two proactive layers of resilience being the officer and
being the leader. I had the mission and then I had my team, and my head and heart always had those two protective barriers where I was always forward thinking, forward feeling before I was ever inside my own heaven heart.
And I've had to go through a lot of this with some great support from some very close friends and family, but it's really been a very lonely time, and particularly a lot of those people who you know, even my former military bosses and politicians, and you know, I had former prime ministers on my podcast when the time was good.
You know, when I was in combat.
In Afghanistan and if it looked like we were in trouble, I could jump on the radio and call in the finger of God, calling support called and the rest. And when I have picked up the phone to ask for support, from even trying to afford the legal costs through to achieving real accountability and help some one my soldiers along the way, you know, it's been silent and it's been
a really lonely time. So I've appreciated that I am less resilient when I'm by myself, and how I really need to invest more in bloody lower keets, I need to invest more in the people I keep around me because midtaly, I definitely spent my time maintaining much more of a social friendship group and not a lot of people who could really be there for the hard times.
And yeah, just it's helped me really reassess what are my values, you know, how I go and feel love and what I actually need to make sure I don't get bottom like I kind of did a couple of times this last few years as well.
Have you ever had a relationship or you might have had several where what you kind of wake up one day and you go, oh, this is a transactional thing. I didn't realize that, you know, where now I'm not I'm not valuable to them anymore. So I don't hear from them. Oh that wasn't a friendship, that was some kind of strategic arrangement.
Yeah, and this has been look, I see my psychologists psychologists each week, and this has been a lot of the sort of decompartmentalizing unpacking that I've gone through.
Is that particularly, you know.
When I went from a place of not being able to make friends in school to having lots of friends in my military career and then once leaving that I've always been able to bring acts of service as my value into friendships, I end up on the one instigating a relationship where I feel like I need to do things for people to be transactional for people to maintain
those connections, and I've been chasing instead of attracting. So yeah, it's really been even shifting that complete mindset and feeling relationships as opposed to thinking or planning about relationships.
That's something that I'm still trying to work through myself.
And what are you doing now, mate? Like, what are you up to, how do you feel in your days? What's your job? What's your focus as your attention?
Yeah, So the Veteran Games.
We just completed the second year of the Veteran Games on the Gold Coast. Next year October will be October twenty five will be our third year and it's just grown. It's doubled in size. Veterangames dot Com check it out. It's an event I came up with myself through my charity, and we're helping the highest SAT risk demographic of veterans identified by the Royal Commission.
But we're having fun.
We're getting people together, forming teams doing obstacle courses, doing all good stuff, and then post my courtcase when Corporate's kind of liked me again. So I've been getting back into doing some keynotes and some workshops intermitted.
But I also spent a lot of time.
This year overseas with my mates in the US and taking a bit more personal time for myself. But yeah, twenty twenty five, more travel, more engagements, get my book out, and really work hard on the Veteran games for October next year.
Do you spend I speak about this idea or this concept quite a lot, Witheople. I spoke about this this morning with somebody, the idea of spending two or three days a year where it's just you with you, no phone, no no one, no newspapers, no interaction, no how much time do you spend alone where you're not distracted by something and it's just you and your thoughts? So you're good at that or bad at that.
I can sit in my thoughts all day.
That's actually my issue. My weakness is being present in the moment unless I'm really ripped into that moment through a period of joy or through a period of achievement. So I can, Yeah, my head will just sit there
and plan, you know, for decades and dynasties. Yeah, right right, Yeah, it's really I don't know, it's always I think my imagination, particularly being a fat, lonely kid on the cap at home, you know, back before they're on mobile phones and you're waiting for someone to call on the landline.
Yeah.
Yeah, my imagination has always been a for me to escape to. And then my military career my ability to plan, but then particularly just continuously think about what ifs and continguency plans and what happens here and to bring out what might come.
That's all my head's really good at.
But sometimes I just wish I could take it bill and switch it off and sit there and you know, meditate.
Meditation is my biggest issue.
I have to go and like watch the ocean or you know, play with a dog or things like that.
Yeah.
I'm guessing that for you, of course, Craig Harp is going to say this, but I'm guessing that really working out is part of your therapy, is you know, part of your anxiety reduction, stress management, emotional kind of wellness.
It really is, particularly.
Like I love, I've incorporated much more like yoga and pilates, like low intensity stuff because I find my body winds up and gears.
Up too quick.
But in particular going to the gym and just lifting and doing what my heo birtuby training, listening to music or just having earphones in so people don't talk to me and just listening to my own thoughts. It's fascinating how that's where I do some of my best thinking. And my friend Sam, who's a COO for the charity, obviously like sending a mesters, but he's like, you're at
the gym, aren't you, it's just my thoughts. Well, I think just doing something manual, you know, again that brings you into the moment and doesn't require you can't really overthink, you know, doing your repetitions. You're trying to focus on my muscle connection. It just enables some form of better alignment in me that allows some thoughts to sort of flow. Yeah.
I talk about this idea, mate all the time, of people finding the optimal version of their normal operating system.
Like everyone has a normal operating system. How you do life, how you do food, how you do relationships, how you do money, how you do career, whatever, What are the things that you have to do to not lose your shit, I mean apart from exercise, but like, what what's the heston a kind of operating system, be physical, emotional, psychological, professional, personal, What are some of the non negotiables for you to stay sane or as close to saying as.
You can see? This is it? Like I'm actually pretty? Is the word low? Guy?
Like, I don't need a lot of fine trimmings, you know, I can you know can rough.
I don't really care. But I think for me, at the end of the day, it's purpose.
It's had something to look to look forward to be that, particularly for me having a social trip, you know, a trip overseas or something, and the next sort of the next knowing that I'm going to go away somewhere and escape somewhere for a bit. I think it's something that I find that I really really need because a big fear for me is getting stuck and stagnant sort of where I am. And a big part for me, mate, like my nutrition is actually a really big grounding part
for me. I really struggled with sort of food as a kid, and again in the military, you just sort of eat to fuel and you never really learn a lot of about it, but particularly as I get older and having a routine and regiment for my eating and not you know, eating on the go or grabbing ship food, because my body just responds and my mindset responds so much to the food medicine that I put into it. So most people know, even when I'm traveling, if there's somewhere I can work out and I can get like
good clean food, I'm set. Like the rest the rest of the routine can be chaos.
Is it? They're a pstutic hang for you, hanging out with guys and girls that you've served with, like people who have kind of been through a version of what you that seems to us fucking civilians like there's some special amazing not with everyone, but I listen to lots of people who have served, and it's like there's this magic that happens between you.
There really is.
And the last four years in particular running my charity campaign for the Royal Commission all the rest, like I get inundated and contacted and hang around with veterans all the time, But.
At this point of time in.
My life, I actually think I'm a bit emotionally fatigued because I'm actually hyper cautious of constantly.
Being drawn back to what I have done.
And there's actually a point of me who wants to bring forward the lessons learned and make sure that the pathway for the next veterans isn't what I had to go through. But I just from a mindset perspective, constantly being around veterans these days and veteran issues isn't healthy for me. And that's why I really am putting my
exit energy into the Veteran Games. When we get together for that long weekend, it is on and it is enjoyable and it is great, and want to connect with people on ans that day, like little counts, little shots in the arm are great. But whereas previously I've been completely immersed and surrounded by it, there's a lot of trauma. There's a lot of different people's journeys and different people's transitions from service life to regular life.
In particular, I find it very relatable.
Is great to lead about the good things, but in particular what I've learned is particularly my journey has been so unique because most of my soldiers you've got out have gone on to have families and to have kids, and I guess me being the only gay commando, I haven't really got a lot of people like me who connect with That's.
Why I have my gay community, I have my bedroommates.
I kind of have to get little bits and pieces from all over as opposed to being able to sit in one place and get everything that I need.
That's what I've probably learned a lot more.
Are you literally the only gay commando that's that's public?
Yeah, I think so, but like I mean statistically yes, yeah, and particularly the only gay commander officer, like the only gay Special Forces officer in Australia period, which again I find so fascinating. I had I don't want to go down this path, but just from a mindset perspective, you all get it. Like I can take it on the ABC. It's meant to be like the biggest friend into the rainbow community. And I'm literally like the only openly gay
special Forces officer in Australia's history. And as opposed to coming in and being a credit to them, they choose to like attack me and push it and saying with the Marti Grad crew here in Sydney, like I had to take a flaming sword to the last year when they wanted to exclude all uniform police from the parade based on one guy at a uniform murdering his ex boyfriend. You know, it's like, yes, it's these activists as opposed
to personally on the side. I get flooded with messages Craig and Tiff by just other gay men who see me as a role model for them, just because I present a different way of being gay where I'm not fully defined by my identity, isn't fully defined by my sexuality, and that is what I wish I had for the fifteen years I was trying to figure out what gay was. So, yeah, you just got to again that shift from wanting to
be popular with everyone. Yes, yeah, just I get most frustrated by a lack of opportunity when there's like potential there. You know, I could be turning all these things into good things and helping, you know, mend the rift between I don't know, like I get more support from.
The straight community. It's hilarious the amount of straight guys reach out like, hey, mate, no homo, but I think you bring inspirational and you thanks bro.
No I imagine starting a message with no homo but oh that's fine.
I say some screenshots on day, the amount of mysters I have, heyesto, no homo, but.
I go stilly, a little bit unsure, but you know that's where i'd start, could.
Be well, there are some of those messages too, mate.
It's like, hey, like, I've never thought I've been gay, but something I'm really attracted to you.
I was like, cool, mate, have a good base.
Yeah what oh that's hilarious.
That's worth of information I don't really need, but I appreciate it.
So fucking funny. We're going to wind up. I want to know. I want to know. Probably fame's not the right word, but you're in the ballpark of fame, like you're well known. Is that good? Is that bad? Do you fucking hate it? Do you like it? Is it practically good because it gives you leverage? But how do you feel about that?
Great question? Mate?
Because there was a period where I wanted to be famous. There is a period where, particularly when I won the Royal Commission, and nearly every political part except for the Greens, you know, offer me to run for the Senate for theam and things like that. And I'm lucky that I didn't become famous because I probably would have self destructed. And having gone through what I've been through has been
a real big wake up call. And it's been that hold, the struggle between entitlement and responsibility and you know, whatever I do, whatever my profile is, as long as I can use it responsibly, that's what matters. But there is a lot to be said, particularly in Australia, where the more public you are, the less enjoyable life is because we do make mistakes. And my experiences of the ABC
have left me going fuck. If I stumble out of a club at like three or four o'clock in the morning and you know, some guy takes a picture or video on his iPhone, you know I'll get plasted.
But now I'm like, who cares. I'm fucking human and I'm having fun. You know you're not gonna You're not going to see me beating up anyone in the park. I'll just be dripping over my own feet.
But yeah, and it's also been interesting, crazy because someone had this conversation the other day, like the reason why a lot of people don't understand even whole a famous piece like I'm not a sports star, I'm not a movie star, I'm not anything you know, my sort of small levels of fame have come from just you know, social campaigns and things like that, and it doesn't fit into a box of fame that people are used to, so people don't understand it.
And I think I enjoy that, and that's my whole thing, is like, you.
Don't need to be anything special other than like who you are, and you know, act on what you believe in. I think that's the most powerful message, and I'd like to be more inspirational in that regard than you know, famous. Famous is definitely you know, I think that's an objective that we shouldn't focus on.
Fame is like a self serving objective.
I think, Yeah, I'm with you. I think the idea of fame ain't the fucking reality of it, and I think.
It doesn't play the bills made.
I think also, like especially now sound like an old person, fuck it, But I think we confuse popularity, even which is a popularity with love. It's like some of the people that I've coached over the years, who are you know, really well known household names some of them some of them you know, gorgeous, wealthy, famous, fucking miserable, like away from the razzle, dazzle like can't sleep, you know, medicative
for anxiety and depression life. So the you know, from the outside looking in razzle dazzle, but the inside out, you know dog not everyone of course, but you know, we have this idea that wow, if I could have that and be there and you know, and then you get there because you're trying to feel you know, emotional and psychological or sociological holes with a fucking new face or some bigger biceps, or a new motorbike in my case,
because I'm an insecure idiot. So if I get all the motorbikes just for if anyone wants to know, it doesn't work. You know, it works a bit for you, though chief doesn't working quite well until you said that.
I think it's sitting down.
The biggest body of work I think I've had to do myself is sitting down and figuring out what actually makes me happy.
Now.
I know the stoics say you're not meant to chase happiness, but like otherwise, I'm a person who's used to chasing success off achievements and it's just an endless string. And when I got to La or a US, I have great friends that are billionaires and all the rest, and some of them are very happy. And I've seen other people where all the money in the world just brings more problems in the world, brings more responsibilities in the world.
So I think it's for me.
It's been getting back to values, love, languages, understanding.
What actually makes you happy. One day we're all going to be old and saggy.
So while you enjoy your body while you can, but it comes down to the personality and how you treat people, you know, because Karma is a bitch and she remembers and slaps hard. So yeah, I think a really important thing has been defining what actually makes you happy, and it can't be something you know, continuously extrinsic and achieving. And I mean, I'm not a motorbike fan, man, but
there's so many motikes you can get made exactly. And when he said if I had a bad experience with a motorbike once, I was riding on my mate's farm down in Park's Peak Hill and about five kilometers from home. I laid it on inside, cut the fuel line and had to wearing a single cut myself up and had to push this like back five k's and I pushed it through the fucking horse paddock and got attacked by the fucking horses and everything that day. I've only ever
ridden the quad bike. I don't do motorbikes, to do quad bikes.
And he definitely doesn't do horses. And by the way, if you're a horse.
I like, mate, I like horses.
I appreciated that I interrupted their domain, but as a fourteen year old kid, I was in a world of and I was so embarrassed and everything.
Yeah, so that's my motbile story.
Now, mate, I don't know. I love chatting to you. I wish we could have you on a regular basis, but you're too famous.
Do it, mate, I've got plenty of tight less to do it busy one, mister seventeen hundred podcasts.
Well, I'm just And when you said old and saggy, I didn't take it personally like I.
Said, I've been hearing your ad pumping on other podcasts.
You're doing well, so keep up with the work, right.
I'm no you, mate, but I do what I can just quickly. If I don't know if you want any more followers or people to connect with you, but if per chance people want to follow you, on the interwebs. How do they do that?
Do it my website Hesteron Russell dot com, especially if you're going to come and speak, or I'll be on my book there soon and then mainly my Instagram, so I don't really.
Check much else.
It's just at Heston Russell to us is two l's you got with no Homo.
So we'll go from there.
Yeah, yeah, no Homo and he'll definitely lean in funk. I wish I could use that as the title, but somebody's going to kick up.
Nah, I don't, it's not worth it.
No, Yeah, that's my fucking That might be my last day on the Nova platform? Where did Harps go? And who knows?
Take no Homo?
Yeah, if you say it, surely I'm allowed to use it as a title.
Do we know up to you?
Do we know the name of the Yeah, it's called Heston Russell and Unconventional Perspective and it's got a little subtitle that says Special Forces Sexuality and Suicide. I think we spoke about it. This is what when I had that plotty with you, Tip, I think you actually use that as the title. So yeah, it's broad ranging, but at Heston Russell and unconventional perspective, because again, what I've
learned is all our lives. It's just our own perspective, and the story is mine, and people might not agree with it, and it's a pretty controversial shit now and.
I can't wait.
Well, I'm writing that down because that might be both the title of your book and the title of this episode. We'll see. Hey, mate, we say goodbye, but you're the best. We've both got a big brush on. I hope I.
Can really appreciate it.
No, I've got to be crush, I know, I fuck it. I could be. I'm not because I'm shipped with women. So maybe maybe I'm the lowest to the party, gay guy and who.
Haven't found the right one? Mate, just haven't found the right one. That's it. Don't chase the track. That's the new mantwer. Don't chase the track.
Okay, note to self. Cool, Thanks Tiff, Thanks Heston, thank you.
Thanks Greig and Tiff. Take care,