I'll get ada, Bloody Champions. Welcome to another installment of the You Project. And when I say the You Project, not really, well it is, but it isn't. Every now and then I do what's called a co share, where I've been on someone else's show and we do this the other way around to where they've been on my show. But I was recently on Josh Pitterman. Josh Pitterman, Me Me, me me, you know miserrab and, Phantom of the Opera and that world famous, famous or famous even singer, that
Australian product too. He and I have become good friends anyway. He's got a amazing podcast called Behind the Mask, Behind the Mask, you know, Phantom of the Opera, Mask, all that shit. Yep, Sure I didn't need to explain that, Okay. Bianca Chatfield, who's also a friend of mine, who played Neddie for Australia Australian Diamonds, she was vice captain, she played a million tests, she won Bloody, Commonwealth Games and World Champs and she's a souperstar. Anyway, Bianca and myself
were on Josh's show recently. It went for a long time one for a long time. I'm going to say he's chatty, she's chatty, I'm chatty. It was a very verbose experience all round, and we spoke about success. We did a deep dive of success is different things for different people. Different for the fantom of the opera to the elite ex athlete now media personality and the ex fat kid from Latrobalu who's trying to figure out what the fuck he's doing. All different. But it was a
really interesting conversation. So I've decided to take that very long conversation and chop it in two to create two installments of the project for your edification, for your uplifting. Anyway, here it is have a good day.
My guest today, I know strangers to successes. The anchor Chatfield is the former vice captain of the Australian women's netball team, the Diamonds. She won gold medals at the Commonwealth Games and the World Netball Championships. Since retiring, she's gone on to do many things, a role as a keynote speaker, she was a contestant on the Block and she commentates on Fox Sports. Craig Harper is one of Australia's most renowned leaders in health high performance, corporate change
and personal transformation. He founded, owned and ran Harper's Personal Training for over twenty five years, which I believe is the first personal training studio in the country.
He is also a renowned keynote speaker.
Craig has become a dear friend of mine and a great mentor. He's an exercise scientist who you may have seen on radio and television over many, many years, and he's just about to complete his PhD in neuropsychology. Just add that to the mix of successes. But as we know, success is often in the eyes of the beholder, who knows what's going on behind the mask of seemingly successful people. So with the help of Harps and chatters, we're going to go behind the mask of success.
Welcome to the show, guys, love your work?
True? How did he do that all in one bloody, beautiful foul swoop without auto.
Without well just stuffed it up twice before?
Well, you saw I had a couple of false stuff. You saw Coldplay last night. You're a bit seedy. Let's be honest. How was it?
It was epic? That so epic?
What do you love about him? And what did you love about the experience all of a sudden, it's my show.
You're welcome podcast.
Well you said, let's just make it a chat. I'm just following instructures.
As you're off air. Before he went on air, it's the the very very thin veil between his persona and the and the person between the performer, between the mask and the soul behind the mask. He's just he leads with his hearts. So I mean, guys, it's just so authentic, Like it's just you feel like you have a gateway into this guy's heart and his talent and all of that.
But in the process, he creates a oneness. And I think that's what you know in a world is so separate and so divided and has so much tunis, so much duality. Are you you know? Are you positive or negative?
Are you Trump or Paris? Are you this or that? Like, he removes the separate the tunis, the separateness, and he finds the oneness and so fifty five thousand people all become one with him, and that is a beautiful power to be able to have and because we need that one that's because it's that's love, you know, and ultimately it's love that coalesce is the universe, so we need to feel that, we need to feel out more than ever at the moment. So he's such a good conduit, an amazing conduit for love.
And you know, I got that experience. I think when I went to Taylor Swift earlier this year. I mean, Craiger, you would have been at Taylor.
I'm sure.
I love a bit of I mean clearly they're like, oh, someone bought their granddad awesome.
Going into the MCG, which is obviously usually sport. It's usually two different teams or two different countries playing against each other in cricket, And for me what resonated the most. I wasn't a massive Taylor Swift fan beforehand, but being able to go into the ground and experience every single person in that ground just there was just so much joy and so much love, and everyone was on the same team and everybody just wanted to go there to
have the most positive experience. And I was learning from all these little girls who were trying to trade their friendship bracelets with you, and there was just kind of.
No hierarchy at all.
It was just everyone was there to experience this moment in time, and I really felt it.
I walked away.
I do some work with the MCG, and I walked away from that and said, every single person who is on you know, the trust, the MCG trust with me had to realize that this was a real game changing moment for at Victoria. I think and what we use the ground for, because it's far more than just something that we go and watch sport for. It's far more
than something entertainment like. It's actually these life changing moments and these beautiful connections that we can bring everybody by having people like Taylor Swift play at that venue and so many hundreds, you know, one hundred thousand people can go in there and enjoy that experience altogether. And it wasn't about alcohol, It wasn't about you know, what you could kind of how much you could dream, just to
have a good time. Everyone was just high on life and it was just amazing to experience.
I just want to speak to that and continue on that thread of oneness and twois were used to a venue like the MCG being a place for positive tunis. You know, are you going for Brizzy or going for the Swans and the Grand Fite, like yeah, one or the other. Are you going for assis are you going for India this summer? And cricket, But it's that space can also be a place for amazing oneness and music is a vehicle for oneness, like because we're all feeling
into the same same thing. So I think these meeting grounds, these amazing meeting spaces that have been meeting spaces for you know, many many, many thousands of years, they were originally meeting spaces for oneness. And it's the connection.
Age is irrelevant, Like it's you know, dads and their daughters and moms and their kids, and you know, older generations and younger generations and everyone just coming together and experiencing something together.
It's so powerful, which just needs so much more of that.
It's not about anything but music, Like it's all. It's like this convergence of diversity and unity. It's like this myriad of different people, different cultures, backgrounds, religious shape sizes, genders, sexuality, preferences, likes, dislikes, all in one joint. And all it's got to do with is the experience and the music, and so all the other stuff becomes redundant, all the stuff that we obsess about the Wii, the macro Wii, who do you vote for, who do you barrack for? What do you wear?
What do you why you eat meat? You don't eat meat? You None of that matters, you know, And to I think, to be able to bring that energy and to be in a place for whatever it was three hours where nothing matters but that, it's like there's something to be learned from that, oh, you know.
And the presence of it, you know, something to be learned in that too, Like it's it's you know, it's very much. You know, where are you here? What time is it now? And that's that's that's so important. So there's no anxieties, there's no fears, there's no worries, there's no ship going on in instruction, there's no distractions except there was one moment where Chris Martin said, okay, everyone turn off your phone. Phones away, phones away, and guy.
I love how we just did that, all right, you fucking.
And the guy in front of me like, everyone put their phone away, and it was just this sort of really connect into the now sort of moment. He was sort of leading a meditation of sorts through song and one guy in front of me just put his phone up, and I.
Was like, turn your fucking phone off.
I was just that guy just just like screaming at him, and and he did for a second, and then then.
That addiction just came back and he's like, no, I need the phone. I can't I can't do without the phone. It's the one thing that pisces me off.
What do people do with the footage like stuff on the Graham But is it like good quality footage or do you post the footage because it's like, I was there, I want to kind of note that this is my moment in time I was there.
I mean, is it like, isn't the Graham grid just like a you know, this is this moment photo album.
Yeah, yes, that's kind of what it is.
But I mean, like when you're experiencing that actual concert. It's funny that we all take all this footage. I do it too, certainly, I'm part of it, and it makes me laugh because you go back and watch it and you think, what was I even thinking? I can't even see half the stuff that I was seeing in real life when I was there.
I've watched a little bit this morning.
It did sort of just take me back to the moment and a re experience of the feelings that you feel in the moments.
I think I think there is a there is a place for it.
But I also think there's a place for putting the phone away and just like being there when I When I do gigs, I did, I did. I've done a fair few recently. I asked people to not take footage and not and not not because I don't want shit posted on you know, social media, because that's probably really helpful. I just want them to beat, Like like Chris Martin, I just want it to be a meditation for them. I want them to be their present in it.
How do you go performing seeing everyone with their phones?
Ah? It just it just shits me a bit. Yeah, I think that's what it is.
I just like, yeah, so, but I'm guilty of it too clearly, So practice what you preached. Hey, you guys, we've we've heated up the space with a little prologue as we as we like to do. But I want to know, on the topic of success growing up, what did that mean to you? What did success mean to you?
What did it? Yeah, what did it look like to you?
I think for me, it wasn't something I specifically like, that wasn't a question but I think this is for me. This is interesting because I talk about this in stuff.
Right.
So if you go into a room full of people and go who wants to be a failure? Nobody goes me, right, So everybody wants to be successful. But that represents different things to different people, and it represents different things to
the same person over time. So if you said to me, Craig, we're going to have you working on a gym floor, it's going to be your gym floor, your gym, your equipment, there's going to be a team of people there, your team, and you're going to have all this shit going on, I would have gone, fucking you, fuck, that's amazing, and I would have loved it, and the idea would have excited me. And that's what I created and that's what I inhabited, and I was very grateful and right place,
right time. A lot of things fell my way, but I also worked really hard, and so there was a period of time where me being in the gym doing my thing was like ten out of ten success. I'm in the moment, I'm loving it, ticking all the boxes, but everything kind of has a used by date. And then there was a period of time, I'm like, yeah, look.
It's good.
It's good, Dad, it's good. And then you eventually get to the point sometimes not with all things, where you go, NA, that's enough now, Like I've handed over enough dumbbells, I've done enough hamstring stretches, I've set enough bike seats, I've programmed enough treadmills, I've spoken enough about anatomy and physiology and blah blah blah for the moment, and I want to do other stuff. And so I think I think
it's different for different people. It's like if you said to if you said to any one of us, three, mate, I've got a gig for you next Monday. It's at Vodafone Arena. It's five thousand people and you all of us would be excited because we all love that shit. For most people that would be mind blowingly terrifying. That
would be the worst news they could get. And so it's really a subjective interpretation of a thing like to me, you know, building connection, building rapport, helping people help themselves. That is a form of success. You know, some people going well, I've raised three great kids. I'm awesome. You are awesome. That is the high watermark. Face. That's probably way more important than the shit that I do. Let's be honest. But the shit that you do helps. Yeah,
so that shit, yeah, nine of them are shit. Well yeah, but I think it's really down to it. I say to people, put up your hand if you want to be successful, and every hand goes up. Then I go, cool, write down what that is and they go what. I go, write down what that is? So it's it's people. I don't think we define ourselves or a success for ourselves enough. And I also think, and I'll shut up after this,
but I feel like we live somewhat unconsciously. It's like we wake up and we go, fuck, it was five years, this wasn't I've told this many story, many times, but not on this show. So you know, people will come and sit to me and they're forty five, forty fifty thirty five and they said, actually say to me, this wasn't my plan. And I go, what do you mean? They're like, where I'm at, this wasn't my plan. And I go, can I see the plan? And they go what?
I go, the plan? Can I see it? They're like, and I go, well, there's no fucking plan, Like you didn't have a plan. You just had an idea of how things would work out, because if you live unconsciously, you're going to produce unconscious results. Like we need to be if we say I want to live a life aligned with my purpose and values and beliefs and faith and who I want to be and how I want to be, or there needs to be some strategy and
logic and accountability and timeline and process like that. Shit, doesn't you becoming You building a world class podcast and you growing it to where you've got a million people per show. That's not going to accidentally happen. You're going to do the work, you're going to learn, you're going to refine skill, you're going to understand the audience, blah
blah blah, and over time you'll build it. But you're not going to sit here accidentally once a week and do something and you're going to end up being Joe Rogan.
Yeah. It requires you've got to have intentionality.
And you've got it. I mean, I reckon. The biggest barrier to success for most people is they just don't like the work. Like they love the idea of the top of the mountain, but they don't want to fucking climb. It's like the theory of success and the practical reality of doing what is required to succeed. They are nothing alike because one's just a theoretical construct. One is a motherfucker of a process that you will probably hate half the time.
But success too also, I think it evolves definitely over time. So when you talk about what you thought about it when it was young, I don't think I even thought about what it looked like or what it was what it could be for me. But it also can be the tiniest little things, and I think that's what I've learned over time is around success sometimes can be just getting your morning done okay, you know, and not not really struggling in that process. And I think I learn
over time following other people was what I thought. My version of success was, so seeing someone else do something and I was like, Okay, I think I can do that. My older sister played netball, and that's the only reason I really got into the sport was because I watched her start to make teams and think, hmm, the competitiveness in me.
I was like, I reckon, I could do that.
So my version of success back then was simply bang out a tick off the same mark as that she had done. And it wasn't until I started to really, I guess, feel confident in my own skin when I stepped onto the netball cord or the basketball court or whatever I was playing. I started to really embrace that the asset that I have that not many people have is my height, and it's not something to be worried about or ashamed about, or you know, stress about.
It's me.
And as soon as I started to love being out there on court because I felt comfortable in my own skin, and then I started to feel confident about myself, then I started to be able to go, oh, actually I could do a little bit different to my sister, and then what do I really want to do and what's the big picture for me? And so it kind of took me being a bit more self aware of why
I was doing it. And it seems I would not have understood this at the time, but it's something as I've really reflected back on my career, I realized the only reason I started playing sport and enjoyed playing sport was because I felt comfortable in my own skin. Whereas when I was with my friends and when I was out at school.
I was just wanting to be like everybody else. I was wanting to be.
Little and you know, wear the same clothes as everybody else, and not be this gigantic person that stood above everybody else, even though you know, I I'm six foot two, so I was naturally always going to be tall. But sport really taught me to love myself and my body and to really be able to embrace what an asset it is to be tall, and so that to me then really drove what I could do with that and how much I felt so good being out there on court. I wanted to do it as much as I could.
So then success for me was like, right, how far can I take this? Can I get into the Australian team? Can I win gold medals? And you know, eventually you do it, But it certainly doesn't just happen like that. It kind of is this gradual rollercoaster ride of ups and downs that you get to eventually, but a bloody lot of hard work and a lot of setbacks along the way. And I look back now and the gold
medals are great. Yes, they were something I aspired to get and wanted, But it's the little things that I ticked off along the way, the little moments that I had, whether it's with my teammates or it's things that I was able to overcome personally, that really I look back and I feel more successful because of those little things and what it's taught me Now I'm not an athlete, and what drives me now that I'm not an athlete that I'm like, Oh, they're the things that really matter,
not the shiny stuff.
I want to pull on a couple of threads there, which is that the court became your happy place. What we're talking about there is the feeling that you experience, not the thought of the projection of what it could be.
It's actually how it made you feel.
Yes, And I'd argue that that's not something that enough people actually really sit in and marinate over with when it comes to success. They think that when I get the house, or when I get the new car, or when I get the extra zeros in my bank, or when I win the gold or whatever, then I will be successful. But really I don't believe that it's any of those things. It's the feeling you think you're going to feel when you acquire those things. And so really
what we're probably asking for is more feeling. What is the feeling? And I think that feeling from a Hindi perspective or Hindi mythological perspective, is called an under which is which is bliss, but not the bliss that English language uses, which is euphor eken up and out and but grounded, peaceful, calm, contented, safe, loved, unified together. That that's that sense of peace. But this is my This is a space that I feel absolute, the deepest level
of comfort in. And I love that you felt that. On the court, there's the outcome or the situation of success. While beyond Chris successful, she works on television, she's got a great bloke, she's got an awesome kid, makes pretty good though, like our our culture says that success is about what you have, what you're you and what you drive, where you live, what you look like, what people think are you.
They're the KPI all extrinsic and we talk whatever.
So but what we know is and we all know people, and we may being the people where from the outside looking in, people are going like I had a moment, sorry to interrupt you, but when I was in my early thirties, I had five businesses and one hundred staff. I had three gyms, two other businesses, and I was making lots today. All my businesses were making money. And every night I would go to bed and hardly sleep.
I would go to bed with a spiral bound had by my bed so when I woke up nine times, which I would, I could write down the thing so it was out of my head and onto a pad so I could relax and kind of sleep. And I was in the situation of success but not the experience. And when I coach most people, when you get through, so there's when we talk about goal setting and we talk about what you want. There's your what, your why,
and your why is what you really want. So like when I wanted when I was a morbid OB's kid, I wanted to lose a bunch of weight. So my what was weight loss, but my why was I want someone to love me. I want to I don't want to be picked last. I don't want to be embarrassed. I want it. I don't want to be socially invisible. I want to get a girlfriend. I want to fucking belong like But then you dig deeper, it's like, well, I just want love I just want to love right.
And so when we get to the bottom of everything, I think what you said, which is most people that I talk to, yes, they want practical stuff. As we all do. Nothing wrong with that because we live in a world somewhat driven by money and dependent on money and all the practical.
Talk that recent episode with Ben Crow.
So there's nothing wrong with one of needing those extremes I things we needed to live.
Like well, even in you know, we got a little biblical before, but even then the New Testament. People misquote this scripture. They go, money is the root of all evil. The actual scripture is the love of money is the root. It's not about money, it's about your relationship. It's about what it means. It's like you can like training, for example, we all work out, we all go to the gym, we're all you know, there's there's a point where training is great, and then there's a point where it's now
obsessive and destructive and toxic. So in science language, everything's dose dependent. Yes, it's dose dependent. Like everything, there's a dose that's healthy, not everything, but most things. And so that when you dig past what do you want, I want to do this own that live there. I want to get a PhD. Da da da da da. You know, Like for me, the idea of doing a PhD was like super sexy. The practical reality is it's a motherfucker. It's like I tell my friends, don't ever do it.
People have gone to me. Do you think I go? No, No, don't.
Why did you do?
It?
Probably feel a little bit more credible because I'm wildly insecure and I've felt like a fucking fat pasta fraud, you name it. Like, what's hilarious is this capacity that we humans have to simultaneously feel like a fraud but know that we're not. Like I know I'm not just because I've got enough data now to suggest that or I've got enough evidence right, But do I still feel not good enough? Constantly? Constantly. It's like when when Josh was introing you, I'm like, what the fuck is you
going to say about me? I'm like an ex fat kid from La tro Valley.
I've done four things, oh, World champion, common shit, Commonwealth games on the block TV, you know, And it's just like even in that, but I'm aware of what's going on.
Yes, but that which is really important. It speaks to your work is that I said that you've become a really good friend and a mentor and.
You've really helped me.
Yeah, and for me, I go, that's a huge marker of success in someone because it is in the the whold or so for me, I go, You're you're so successful because I watch you help people, and I value people that help people.
I tried selfishness for a long time. I gave it a good crack.
I think we all do.
I'm like, I'm I was, I was the center of my world and it just you know, it's like there's this model that I didn't develop of kind of expanded it, but where you go through this journey of self kind of self reflection through to self awareness and then you know, self regulation and it ends up the last two.
There's eight tackle and self loathing might be.
Yeah, self flagellation, and but the last two, the last second, last one is I'm self actualization, which is you becoming kind of who you want it to be and how
you want it to be. And I'm I think I'm like in that ballpark, But the real goal is what I think is the final step, which is self transcendence, which is having a purpose bigger than you, So it ain't about me, and I know that for me, and yet it sounds mother Teresa and people might go, oh, that's good saying a podcast, and I get it because I'm definitely not it a lot, But I try to be where I do have a purpose bigger than me, and I'm I'm about genuinely about whatever love looks like,
whether it's kindness, whether it's quality time, whether it's a hug, whether it's you know, literally giving someone a few bucks, or whether it's encouragement or you know, every now and then it will be some tough love, but you know it's that transcendent kind of existence because I think in that model of successes about what I can get and what I can have and what I can own and earn,
and what people think of me at the best. What that brings us is a fleeting change of emotion and psychology, like there's not It doesn't bring my experience, it doesn't bring that deep contentment, and you think about I reckon in for those of us who live in relative first world comfort, most people really want, which you mentioned, is just to be calm, the absence of anxiety. Everyone's fucking anxious, Like, what do I really want? I just I don't want to feel like this. How do you want to feel
like the opposite of anxious, the opposite of stress? Put up your hand. If you're an overthinker, everyone has that going shitouse, you know, And it's all of this, I mean anxiety, stress, overthinking, self doubt, datata, all of that. It's a manifestation of fear. And then you go, what am I scared of? Let's let's dive rather than run away. Let's run into it and let's see what's there. Because you can't deal with the thing that you won't acknowledge. You know. Am I lazy?
Yep?
Sometimes? Am I driven by ego?
Yep?
Do I have to bite my tongue because I want to impress people? Yep? All of these things. And that is not self loathing. That is just honesty and reflection and self awareness.
Yeah, and that's self awareness part.
I think that's something that you learn a lot more about the more you spend time on it. Right, And even when you were just talking about that imposter syndrome, and I think every single person in the world would have that at some stage. And it's about knowing and understanding that you're having those thoughts and that's okay, and you just not that you're letting it pass by, but you're kind of thinking, what is it in the moment that's making me feel like this? And what can I
do to get myself out of it? Or what can I do to kind of pass through this and be okay that that just happens?
Do you agree with that?
But that having that self awareness and not trying to fight those feelings but letting them just be there and knowing that it's not going to take over me in this moment, or you hope it doesn't, and even if it does, you figure out a way to work through it. Yeah, because it is your PhD in self awareness.
Yeah, essentially.
Yeah, But what I think is that's what Yeah, that's a part of huge part of neuropsychology.
I can dive into it, but we don't want to boll people. But I think really what is really really valuable and just not taught and told much is just to be okay with being wrong. You noticed at the moment everyone wants to be right, and it's like one of the problems with thinking that you are right, Like if you think I don't want to pick a topic because people instantly get polarized. But just any subject, any topic,
any idea, any construct, any philosophy. When I think that I am unequivocally right, then I also think that everyone in the world who disagrees with me is unequivocally wrong. That's a fucking dangerous mindset. So and I, you know, I grew up in a very religious theological paradigm, thinking and behaving and living and socializing in accordance with that. And you think about, like, everyone listening to this right now, I mean, I don't know. Let's say ten thousand people
are listening to this. Ten thousand people are listening to the same three people in the same conversation, but no one's having the same experience as a listener, Like we are always creating our own experiences without intending to. And so and we grow up, you know, we grow up in an echo chamber of thought and behavior and values and culture, and you become a product that. So by the time you're pushed out of the nestadata in or whatever, you see the world a certain way, and most of
that worldview you did not choose. It's merely a byproduct of where you've been and what you've been in you know, And so this is a self awareness question.
And what you talk about harks back to what we chatted about in the prologue about Chris Martin and Coldplay and the oneness. Yes, that humans inherently enjoy. The duellism and the duelism plays into the rightousness and the righteousness. It's like, I need to be on this side of the I need to barrack for this, yeah. And I need to be right in barracking for this, yes, Because the idea of the one this actually means that you have to remove judgment, increase open mindedness. You have to
relinquish fear, relinquish prejudice, relinquish projections. You have to relinquish so much to get rid of your rightness and righteousness that that's too heavy a burden, too deep a place for a lot of people to go to. But really, that dualism, that righteousness is a fear manifest It's not it's the inability to park your stuff because you're too scared of what it could be if you don't happens. I'm too scared of being wrong because what is the
pathway of that? And so really that dualism is the opposite of love because it's driven by fear, and fear is the opposite of love really.
And also, you think about whatever we believe, generally, our identity is intertwined with that belief. So if you question my belief, you're questioning me exactly. And if my belief's wrong, then who the fuck am I?
Exactly? So my belief is right, but you're not your belief. Yeah, so you're not.
And and so you need so you need to really dive into is that conditioning? Is that you know, I've had lots of sort of disagreements with some mates at the moment around what's happening in the Middle East because they sit on one side of the equation, and then there's a bunch of mates more in the arts who are on a totally different side of the situation. This is a really challenging topic at the moment. But once again, spoken on this on an earlier episode, I'm trying.
To find.
And move away from, you know, the fact that I'm Jewish and I have to side with something because I don't I see, I'm like trying to find this middle middle space where and I go where is where is where is love?
Where is peace? Where is calm in this?
And and I've said that it's a sad thing, that very sad thing, that that concept is seemingly you topian in this day and age, that oneness is utopian, But it's it's really about going, hey, I see it from your perspective, and I see it from your perspective. I'm not putting my head in the sand, but I'm taking the middle ground between between the two rather than going it has to be.
This and you always have to have an opinion.
Yeah, and you can just listen.
Yes, it doesn't mean you're being naive or you're ignoring what's going on.
I think a lot of people feel like they've got to have an opinion, and unfortunately it's like the loudest opinion and everyone needs to know shout it out to everybody. And that's how people feel like they're getting, you know, their thoughts across and they're also being part of a conversation because of that. And I think there's so much power in sitting back and listening and not feeling like you have to add to it. But you can just sit back and take it all in and that's okay too.
I just yeah, I don't know. I find that with a lot of you know, just the people I'm around, whether in work or just life, that everyone loves to have their opinion.
Here we are having all sorts.
Isn't it cool though, to go I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, and I can make some up I don't know.
Yeah, yeah, And I think a lot of people do get smells down this rabbit hole of making stuff up.
Once a week, I reckon what do you think? I don't know. Why I get asked is what do you think happens when we die? O? I don't know. I could tell you what my upbringing told me. I could tell you with what a whole lot of you know, other religions think. But what I don't know, I don't know.
With the work you're doing and the work we're all talking about doing, which is to just being more aware. In that awareness, I think what we find is the ability to go ah, that thought that I'm having, or that righteousness around that topic that is a part of my conditioned belief system. That's an indoctrination that's been put upon me. It doesn't have to be to be right, it's just what I've been fed and that now lives in my subconscious as right, maybe that's not the only way things need to be.
Yeah, And I think for me, I reckon I learned so much from playing in a team sport because of the fact, and then that's what since retiring, That's what I really noticed out in the big bad real world, is that in a team and especially when you're spending a lot of time together training together, you know you're working your asses off to try and win, and along with that comes a lot of conversations and you're getting feedback constantly, whether it be feedback about your performance from
your coaches and what you need to work on. But in a team environment, especially with the Aussie team, your delve so deep into each other's like who we are as people and what we need from each other in those moments when under the most stress, and so you are getting this feedback from everyone about yourself and it's the most frightening thing in the moment to actually listen to your teammates give you this feedback. But they will sit you down and it'll be like, when I'm feeling this,
what do I need from you? So if you're struggling with how you shooting in that moment? What do you need from your teammates? What can we say to you to help you when you're feeling like that? I love this and it's it is confronting. It takes a lot of work to get to that point of these conversations
and big like that. But I think that's helped me so much, be so aware of me, my body language and what that tells people when I'm acting a certain way and when I'm frustrated or I might not have been playing that well, you know what I needed from my teammates and being able to ask for the help in that moment. What can you do for me to help me in that moment, because it's only going to
be for the better of the team. And if someone might be struggling with their mental health, what do you need from your teammates when you you know can't you can't possibly train today because you're not in the right space to do it.
What can we do to support you?
I mean, this is so beautiful to hear that that that that you're actually delving into. What would the feeling of the other individual not just are they missed another shot? They got the yips there's going, why what are they experiencing? What can I give them? You know, back to what you were talking about pulling on that thread. Half's about going. It's not about me. It's about how I can help another and what I can give like this, that's beautiful
that that does that happen. And this is another interesting question. Do you think that happens more in women's sport than it does in men's sport?
Is there?
Well? I think because women naturally lean into the emotional parts of things and men struggle with that more.
Just But I also think women it takes a while to really not take it personally as well. Whereas men can quite easily give each other feedback this is very general generalization, can give each other feedback and just move on and accept it, whereas I feel like women can often sit in that space of like, I can't believe she said that about me, or I can't believe she thinks I'm struggling in that way.
But it does.
It comes down to trust, right, You have to really have that layer of trust before you can then move into that next part. And you said you spoke to ben Crow, and I mean Crow is such a big one for that being able to have a space where you can talk about it, be vulnerable and also accept help. And I think most of the time it's coming from a place where you have to come with a solution to You can't just say I'm sitting here in this I'm not playing well, don't talk to me like you
have to actually help them help you. And I think that's where it comes for having a bit more thought process around it too.
So when I'm in this space.
And I'm feeling like this, this is what I need from you, so that when people are doing that to you and delivering you what you've said you've needed, then it's up to you to show up to that too. You can't just then be dismissive of that you've told them, You've given them permission to do that and to talk to you in that way. That you have to also then show up for yourself and get yourself out of that frame of mind that you might be in.
And this is beautiful to around it back to the topic success. This is a beautiful way to to create team success that it does ask for vulnerability, it does ask for meeting people's needs, but ultimately, like trust, like if you don't have the trust within the framework of a team.
You can't be vulnerable. You know you can't. You won't feel safe to be vulnerable.
So and getting out of your own skin really and you know that empathetic part of where you go and sit where someone else is at right and be there with them in that moment and then try and work through how you're going to get better, because you're only going to be as good as you know, probably the weakest person on that team or the least inexperienced person
on that team. You're only as good as what they can be in that moment, and so you've got to do everything you can to all try and be at a similar level and work together to try and problem solve. I would have been hopeless an individual sport. There is no chance I would have been successful in sport on my own. I really embrace the fact I had team mates around me, and I love that got the best out of me being able to help other people out there.
So if I was, you know, a tennis player like I listened to Jolena Dokitch and Todd Woodbridge on your potty and I loved listening to them, and I just think they're mentally next level the way that they can do it and get themselves out of tough spots on their own in a place where they don't have anyone around them, and it comes down to them. I think there are a totally different breed of athlete to what a team sport athlete is.
What were the sort of routines or rituals or things that you put in place for yourself or that the team put in place to feel like you were moving closer towards the success that you were you were after, and you might Craig want to talk about some of those key characteristics of things.
That's the crazy.
Especially in the early start, Craig would work on a lot of that with us too. It started as a street and conditioning side of things, and then you move more into the space of actually working with us from a leadership perspective, and you know, setting ourselves our values and behaviors and what we were going to stand for and what the behaviors that we would set, what we
would have to hold each other accountable to. That probably became the more powerful piece what we were going to accept of each other.
But did you do things like a morning before a game or not for a game.
I need to have a speaheta blinads morning for a game.
I need to mourning for a like, or I always you know, meditate, or or I always do this movement activity or like. Do you have these sort of practices that you put in place.
Yeah, you would, definitely, And I was very much. I had to be really prepared beforehand, so I would watch if I was watching any video or anything about the team I was about to play, I had to do all of that the night before because prep tick that off the night before.
I wouldn't you.
I would always generally have like salmon and rice the night before a game. But I wasn't stuck.
On the fact.
And I think Crago got me out of this being stuck on the fact that I had to do that, because if you didn't.
Do it, what were you going to do? We're going to just crumble and heat.
The next day salmon shortage. Where am I going to get my bigga three fatty assets before?
So I think like we used to think it was, you know, you're quite strict about it all. And then I relaxed later in my career, I was so much more relaxed about it. But what I enjoyed doing was getting to a game and being able to muck around and have fun in the change rooms with everybody and enjoy because the joy and not focusing too much on it allowed me to then go out there on court
and play my best. If I was too caught up in it and too focused and too analytical, then I would get in my own head and the old overthinking would get in my way. So I really needed to just make sure that I arrived and I could have a bit of fun beforehand.
So I mean, I'll get you to speak to this soon, Craig. But preparation you've mentioned, and play you've mentioned. When I sort of work with people in this space and in my self, something that I've sort of formulated is what I call it, like five five p's to controlling what I can control to be the most successful I can be in it.
In a moment, can I.
Tell you that you two think way too fucking much? You both overthink it?
No, both c D.
Probably a five p's preparation. Preparation is the is the first one you go. I've got to, you know, like if I don't really know my ship, I can't I can't trust it. Presence, you know, So what do I do to stay present? And sometimes when you get in your head or whatever, like just a sensory thing like just go, you know the feeling of my feet on the ground, or you know what I what I can see, what I can hear, what I can smell?
And purpose? What's what's my intention? That's what? What's my why? Why why am I here? Passion? You know? To go? You know what?
I do that feeling? Yeah, lean into the feeling that I want to feel. The last one is play and I think you know plays once again, Crowie talked a lot about play on our episode, but that idea of just bringing that in a child into it, like well, that's the joy, that's the fun, that's like why, that's the curiosity, that's the adventure.
Like what would I Why would.
I be doing this if there wasn't an element of play in it? And then what happens happens? You know, I've done the part that I can do. And this is I definitely do this before auditions or before major performances. I really sit into this because I know I can't control what those you know, five six, twelve people on the panel think I have no say in what they think. But my power is in those five things, and if I screw up any of them, I just throw in
the sixth one, which is persistence. Just go, you know what this tomorrow like and sack sort of Kobe Bryant Bryant thing, which is like, whether you win or you lose, you just got to rock up the next day and go again.
And you go, get that's the persistence thing.
So that might be a for thinking it, but I actually think, do you know what that helped? That has really helped me to just create a framework for success in a way that I go, I feel like I have some control, and we spend a lot of time trying to control the things we can't control. I'm trying to control what that panel think of me. I kind of control what the two thousand people think of me. I have no say in it.
And I think it's understanding that different things work for different people. And so like there's a fine line sometimes between superstition and protocol, you know, because a lot of athletes are superstitious and you go, yeah, I've got it. You know, there's nothing. All that does really for them is reduce anxiety because they feel better there's no scientific validity to a lot of it. Well there was. That's the that's the completion of part one of this chat
Bianca and Josh and myself. Hope you enjoyed it. We'll be back tomorrow.