#1706 Who Am I For You, & Them, & Me? - Dr. Lillian Nejad

physical therapy. What's your favorite face to face thing to do.

see patterns and it's cool. I like that.

T shirts and many Lonsdale T shirts. They're not the same one and any pairs of cat Go shorts. People think I have like one shirt and one No, I have like twenty or thirty of each. But yeah, what do you think that's about? Doc Where I just don't care what people think about what I wear, Like I at all should I care?

like one of my surrogate daughters growing up. And I go, I don't have to wear a suit, do I? And she goes no, And I go jeans and shirt like, which for me is formal. She goes no. I go, what do you mean no? She goes, well, no blue jeans. She goes, you can wear black jeans and a shirt. I'm like, and I'm thinking, for me, ah, black jeans. I don't have black jeans. Now, I've got to get black jeans. That's like formal. That's like for that, I'm like,

it's a nightmare, mate. I think it's probably inherently just laziness.

writing or the gig of you know. It's like, there's not a lot of time in my day where I'm doing not much. Like my most downtime in the day is going to the gym, talking shit, lifting a few weights, sliding into the vortex, which is the crab. My training partner's propensity. He could talk. It's funny like if you don't know him, he's like a mute. He's like shy, But once you know him, he does not shut up,

which we love him for that. Anyway, I digress, But my long winded point is I just think of all the things I need to invest energy and attention in. I don't want to get up every day and wonder about what I'm going to wear and waste time on that. So I just go shorts, T shirt, runners, you know, hoodie done boom.

could see that she was worried about me. I'm like, no, no, don't worry. I'm always in my This is not a sign that ye're.

don't know, for God's sake, harps. But anyway, I thought people would like me more or be attracted to me, or impressed by me or something. And so I think I was so intertwined with what I looked like my identity, in my sense of self and self worth and self esteem I embarrassingly now looking back, but it was what it was. I got so much of that through how I looked or how I thought I looked for others, and not that I don't care how I look now,

like I want to be in good shock. But maybe it's a pendulum swing from that.

So and when you're young, you internalize these messages. I remember being you know, like like I'm from any an Iranian background, and I think there's probably people from lots of backgrounds I can relate to this, but in Iran, like probably the top three values in Iran are education, hospitality, and beauty. Yeah, it's very high on the list, and

so it's talked about a lot. And if you don't measure up to those high standards, or you think you don't, then you're gonna it's gonna feel not quite right and you're gonna start being maybe over focused on your appearance or over focused on how you don't measure up. Either way, it doesn't bode well for the future because it's it's really not one of the most important things in life.

a year ago. Then all of a sudden, you're getting accolades and you're getting attention, and you're getting social approval, and you're getting all of a sudden, you know, there were you know, my chances of having a girlfriend when I was fourteen were minus twenty six and then by the time I was fifteen sixteen, it was not altogether zero, you know, So you get a little bit of confidence and a tiny bit of social acceptance and status, because now like, and this is a horrible thing to say,

but this is how it felt to me. Now I'm not ugly, I'm getting noticed, right, Yeah, And the truth is I did all of a sudden my body changed. And this is a terrible It was both a great but also terrible experience. I'm more popular now. So you draw this correlation between Oh, when I looked like that, I was not that popular or noticed or accepted or approved. Now I look like this, and this has owt come ergo. You know, I don't know it was correlation or causation.

I think it was causation because now I'm like, oh, well, guess what if I look pretty good, I get all these rewards. Imagine if I looked fucking amazing, and then then imagine if I look like a freak. Goddamn freak, you know. And so for me, that just escalated. You're

always trying to get I think, well I was. I think we're trying to resolve psychological and emotional issues with a physical, you know, some kind of physical change, and not that you not that I really understood that that age, But that's kind of because acceptance and approval and love like you said, and connection and belonging. I mean, all of those are internal drivers, and we think we're going to meet those needs with bigger biceps or a prettier face or you know, a leader body.

that's what I look like. So when I had my kind of I feel like change positive change in the like if we're going to think of it as positive, which we actually shouldn't, but how I kind of viewed it when I was younger, around that seven sixteen seventeen age and I and at seventeen, I actually went from high school to university, so I had this way of completely reinventing myself. Right nobody knew me I was the nerdy girl from high school. I was like, it's like.

it's powerful. It's powerful when you get that overt praise for something like your appearance, because then you can get really sucked into that being the important thing.

same or worse, but pretty obsessed. And it's on the one hand, you want kids to be fit and strong and to exercise in all of those things, which is great. Yeah, and you can't be some old fuck.

what's happening on social media. You look at a young attractive female, Yeah, she will have lots of followers because she's a young attractive female, not because she's got one hundred and forty IQ or not because she's got necessarily

some amazing skill set. She might have all of that, by the way, but or if you're a young dude and you're jacked or you know, it seems that things like whether or not you're a good human, or whether or not you've got great values, whether or not you're brilliant academic, or whether or not you've got an incredible skill set doesn't matter in some areas. It doesn't matter nearly as much if we're being honest, as just what you look like and what people think of what you look like.

And I said, oh, lady who does much? You know, she's like this Iranian American psych She lives in a She goes, oh my god, Iranian women are so beautiful. That's my mum. I'm like, really, she goes, oh, yeah, Iranian women amazing, Like there's this global reputation for yeah, for that. And so when you said that one of the values is beauty, it's like, yeah, I And of course there's nothing wrong with being beautiful or handsome or whatever.

Of course it's great. But I guess it's about maybe the relationship that we have with beauty.

of Iranian culture. That's I hear this from so many you know, different families and how people are grown up, Like it's literally the first thing will people comment on. So I think at a really early age, I had this kind of sense of I don't think this is right. And so when things changed for me in terms of appearance and I was getting kind of more approval in that area, I still had this sense of, like, this isn't the most important thing because I'm not a different

person like on the inside. Yes, So I think actually it took me a while before I really realized even like why my family and my family's friends behaved that way, because I actually resented it for a long time, Like I thought this so wrong for people to like think that this is appropriate to make comments about me or

anybody's appearance or body. And then I actually saw a documentary on it was about I think it was about plastic surgery or something like that, and how there are certain places in the world where it's more prevalent, and one of them was Iran, and that the way that they viewed it was like with pride, you know, because and they like, like, you know, in some places, like you want to hide that you have work done, but in Iran it's like, no, you want to show that

you've had it done, because like you're you're looking for this kind of ideal, kind of perfection. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize that that's how they viewed it. And that's the understanding just helped me resent it less, not as like a not overall like I still don't think that that's a healthy way of being, but like resent it from the people from that culture who are making those comments, because that's where they came from and that's

what they've internalized. That's that's where their belief systems came from. But I think what's really important is to question all of those internalized beliefs and things messages that you've grown up with as you get older, because what's really important is what we're actually wanting, which is underneath that, which is that belonging in that connection and that those positive relationships with people. Yeah, that's what we're really wanting.

do we how do we? Like, does identity matter? Like we we the sense of self that I have or you have that I think my identity I don't know, like I care. I mean if I didn't say, if I said I don't care about what people think of me, that would be a lie. I'm not. I'm not obsessed with it. I'm not wildly insecure about it like I once was. Like I care, of course, of course, and I can still get my feelings hurt, and I can

still get upset and all of those things. But is it worth thinking about as us as individuals where our sense of self and identity comes from? Is that that is that a worthwhile kind of so ecological rabbit hole to go down, for sure?

issues around self worth, right, a lot of people. And one of the things that we do together that they may not have done at all before, or have maybe done it a little bit but not enough, is really question where their values and beliefs come from, right, and whether they want to have those values and beliefs still, yes, because we grow up with you know, we're all brainwashed, right, and we're like where we grow up in a particular family, in a particular society, and we're not born with all

of these ideas. We learn them over time, and some of those messages that we get are going to help us develop a strong identity and a healthy identity and others may not. And what can happen as we just well as a children, we just internalize whatever ideas are significant others in part to us without question because we trust that that's what they're telling us and what they're showing us is right. But we can go through life and never question that.

did you decide that that was true for you? Well, that was, you know, was the right belief And people like, well what, because we don't We essentially just adopt, like you said, the people in our world that we listen to, that we respect, that we're around, maybe even some of the people we don't fucking like, but we're around them. They tell me I'm shit, you're shit, You're worthless. You tell me that a thousand times, and I'm a child.

Well I believe it now because that's the messaging I'm getting. And I never chose to have that belief. I just have that belief as a byproduct, as a terrible byproduct of a horrible situation, or as you said, as you said, you know some of them serve us and positively, and some of them don't. But it's like, yeah, when do we do It's almost like when do we do a

stock take on our own beliefs? When do we kind of put them up on the metaphoric hoist like the car and the garage and walk around that belief and kick the tires and fucking lift up the hood and go, I don't know if this works for me? Like is this actually? Do I believe in this? And if I do, why do I believe it? Where did the belief come from? Yeah? Is there any chance that this belief could be bullshit? Yeah?

around storytelling. So what they actually found was the more that families told stories about their history, not just their own immediate history, but of generations before. The more that the children knew those stories and were able to even

detail the stories themselves, the better their identity. The stronger their identity, the better their self esteem, the stronger their resilience was because they developed an identity that was more than just about themselves and even just about their immediate family it was like this intergenerational identity yes, wow, yes,

so interesting and very robust results. So they came up with these kinds of questions that aren't actually that complicated, like to start with, like do you know, for instance, where your mother was born, Do you know where your father was born? Do you know how they met? Do you know how your grandparents met? Do you know you know what were some of the challenges that you know, the people in your family experienced, you know, one, two, three generations ago, what were the outcomes of those what

were their personality characteristics? And the more that they can that children can actually not only like know that information, but also relate themselves into it. So for instance, oh, I'm like, oh that characteristic of my grandfather that sounds a lot like me, or like that's something that I would have done, or like what I think I would do in that situation. The more that they feel that

connection and that belonging that goes far far deeper. Yeah, and that really can create this really strong sense of identity that goes beyond you know, these superficial things that we get inundated with via social media, society or even sometimes within our immediate families.

tech danger, or it might be curiosity. But you know, we're always detecting and assuming and labeling and inferring, and sometimes we're wildly right or wildly wrong. But knowing that, I feel like some people move through the world worrying about worrying about what other people think of them and not.

Now let's talk about let's differentiate that between between that and my research, which is having an understanding of how people perceive and experience us, you know, which matter accuracy, like being able to know what it's like to be around you, which is used the right way. It's a social kind of superpower into personal tool that we can use. Right.

So there's that which is just knowledge and awareness which can be used positively, but at the other end of the scale, there's this worrying myself sick about what the guy in the second office down the corridor thinks of me, or my boss thinks of me, or that whoever. Like, how do we because it's not like we want to

move through life not giving a fuck about anyone else. Yeah, because we want to be, you know, all the things that we want to be empathetic and kind and awareness and have a bigger than us awareness and all those nice things which we do. But you don't want to spend life being worried about what people think you, right, So can you speak to that? Yeah?

you know when it's going awry? And often that's through I guess, really knowing what are your behaviors? You know, like if we're, for instance, we're overly relying on other people's approval and we're anxious and fearful about being judged or rejected or abandoned, that can lead to dysfunctional people pleasing behaviors for Insteah, and those are things that you can like see and notice and monitor within yourself, like what are you actually doing? And is that helpful or

is that unhelpful? Is that healthy or is that unhealthy? Is that functional or is that dysfunctional? And I think one of the main, main, main things and the most important thing in all of this is that can you evaluate all of this without judging yourself?

to throw her under the bus. But the other day, so I think it was on the weekend, I trained a young lady that I've helped a bit ash who who was on the podcast, and she's lost seventy kilos and she's gone from really unhealthy to really healthy, and she's changed her life and she feels and functions better and life's better and all this stuff, right, And she was in the gym training and I took like a ten second video of her training, and I thought, my

listeners will maybe be interested to see here's the girl that's lost the seventy k's and you know, right, so I put up the video and it had twenty five thousand views in twenty four hours, right, So I wouldn't call that, you know, what do you call it viral? But it went pretty well right, and all of the comments were good, except one person asked a question which I didn't think was negative. I think it was a genuine question, and Ash sent me a message because she'd

thought that that person was being negative. And I'm like, it's so funny because the overwhelming response was, oh my god, you're amazing. That's fucking great, well done, incredible, like it was all good, all love, all positive. Then one person asked a question which was really just a question, and then she sent me a message, Oh, what's with the what's with the hate or something? And I go, what what? I'm like, dude, you know, but it's funny that. And

I've done the same thing. I've done gigs where I got overwhelmingly good feedback and one person who didn't love me, but the majority, you know, it was somewhere between pretty good and really really well received. And one person got their nose out of joint because something I did or said or a story and they came up and let me know. And it was literally one out of five hundred people, And all I thought about was the one. Yeah, the four ninety nine had no positive impact. It was

all about the one. And I drive home being angry and frustrated and because one person didn't like me. What the fuck is that? Doctor?

have been the stimulus. But the reason that I didn't make you is because I said it to a lot of other people and they didn't feel what you feel. So you created that. But I've done that myself where I get myself into a tease and it's it's definitely me, that's the problem.

your brain. It is actually not almost like it is like you have to train your brain to notice and appreciate and elevate the good things in life, the positive messages, the healthy, the healthy things, the things to be grateful for.

you know, and we've spoken about this. You've energetically and perhaps spiritually and emotionally and psychologically turned a bit of a corner. Blah blah blah all of that, which I do mean to say that flippantly, but that's where you're at So my question to you and maybe to you also literally and is what's your criteria for trust, like with people that you like? You know? It's like my metaphor is like I know a lot of people, but I don't trust a lot of people. Now that doesn't

mean I distrust the majority. It just means like, for me to truly trust someone, it takes a bit because I've had and there's no self pity in here, because I'm just one of many. But I've had a lot of people fuck me over a lot and backstab and bitch and do some horrible shit, people that I really loved and trusted and valued. So for me to actually really trust, it's not a quick process. What about you? What about let's start with you, Tiff.

of this. But I feel like maybe right now I'm learning to observe who I am around people, and because it's a me thing, like I identified a long time ago, trust was a me thing, not a them thing, my ability to feel safe in the world. And so I think that's what I watch now. I watch who I am and how I am and how I feel, and then I go from there. I said to one of

the clients in my coaching group this week. I was having a one on one chat with her and I and I said that I was I am so extremely grateful for you, because I feel like now I've popped out the other side of a long, funky, weird time that I didn't know I was in the middle of.

Where I feel like my perception is you must have fucking had a shitty version of me that you would have been experiencing a lot of the time, and you obviously could see it, and for some reason that I will never understand, you just stood by and like you knew, and I was like, I don't know how you knew, but I needed someone to do that and like, wow, so thanks, but yeah, I'm still processing how I how that's all coming together for me? So good question.

not our best selves, right, and I'm the same. Some days I get to the end of the day and I'm like, excuse my language, doc, I can say it in front tip, but I was a count today, not all day. But I'm like, I'm better than that. But you know, I see in her, I see in you. I see in people the potential and the good. And I also sometimes I'll meet people where I'm like, there's a whole lot of darkness going on there. I don't really want to get involved, you know, but and I think my question, how did you?

or deserve. And I don't know where it comes from, whether or not it's a subconscious wisdom or some kind of fucking divine insight or I don't know, but there has been many times, and I could give I could give at least a hundred examples of times in my life where I've known something that really protected me or really saved me, and nobody taught me. I never learned it. It wasn't as a result of another experience I had,

you know. And I just think that I think like I I have an in sense with a lot of people about whether or not they are This sounds bad, but whether not investing time and energy in them is a good investment. And I don't mean as a potential return on investment. I just mean they're worth it. You know. I had a guy last week. I won't say his

name because I don't want to embarrass him. He's in my mentoring group that just finished, and he had his one on one mentoring session with me, and there was just unfinished business and it's just like I didn't want to just go see you. So anyway, I made an arrangement with him, and he really needs help and I really don't have the time. My days are mental, and I just went fuck it, And so I made four appointments for the next four weeks with him. And I don't say this to sound good or bad. I say

it just because it's relevant to this. You know, no costs, know anything, and I can't do this, you know, blah blah blah, but for everyone, of course. And he's like, why are you doing this? Like he was crying, and he goes, why are you doing this? I go, do you need help? And he goes yes. I go, well,

that's why, that's it. I got it. You know. It's like it's it doesn't and I think that I'm banging on, but I think, you know, and sometimes I'm selfish, but I think you know when we talk about that, that model that I've spoken about that starts with self reflection and it's self awareness and then goes through self regulation and then self actualization and it ends up at self transcendence, which for me is like that intersection of purpose and

spirituality and fulfillment and you know where because I know when I am all about me, which is very easy because I'm an only child, and I can be selfish, but I unequivocally have data that tells me the more selfish I am, the worse my life is, and the more generous I am to a point. You know, you can't be all things to all people, but the better that my life goes. So what, I don't know how the fuck we got there? What about you? DOT? What

about you? And trust? And you opening? Because I feel like I shouldn't say this, but I'm going to say it because I'm in a fucking roll. I feel like you are quite reserved. I don't know how often you open the door, like even with me, and we've had a few copies and it's like we get on. Well, there's no problem. Like I like you, I think you like me. We have a good connection. But I feel like, yeah,

I don't think the door's been open opened. You know, it's been opened a bit, But I feel like with you, you're you're, there's not This is going to sound wrong because it's not in an insincere way, you know, person and persona. I think there's there's the professional public you and sometimes I just want to mess up your hair and pull back the Liian curtains. See what, I just want to mess up you, wipe off your lipstick and pull back the Liian curtain.

and it can be really small. But for me, because I'm like, if someone tells me something, I'm a vault Like that's my job too, rite like, but it's not going anywhere, like you can trust, Like the trust being trustworthy is like part of my identity. Yes, So it's hard for me to understand sometimes when other people aren't like that. And so I don't have that expectation for people to be as good at it as I am.

But therefore they're not going to get as much until I do have that expectation, like until I know that they are. Yes, yes, And honestly there's probably not a lot of people that are mm, So you know, I'm probably like on the vulnerability scale, like not super high. I'm not Brene Brown, but I related to or you. But I related to what she said about vulnerability, and

I agree that you that it's important. I obviously every person that comes to see me has shown vulnerability, right, yes, And so that's why I actually respect everyone that comes to see me so much, because I know the courage it takes.

know too. I was just thinking something then identify I can articulate this properly, but I was thinking there were times like, do you remember when you first started kind of you got on board, you know, working consistently with me as a paid gig working on Obviously you got your own business and your own show and all that, but you started working with me, and then I needed a certain commitment from you. And remember it freaked you

out because you're a little bit commitment phobic. And there was a period like there was a honeymoon period and then you felt a bit like there was it got a bit messy for a while, right, and then we had a talk and it's like you were I don't know. There was a few lumps and bumps and it all sorted out. But then over time it's like you and I almost have had this almost like dad daughter relationship,

right despite what other people think. Hey, everyone's never been anything right, non right, despite all the people that go, are you and if I go, no, never have been and no disrespect to tif, never will be all good? Right, more like dad and daughter that don't get on sometimes. Right. But I think I think sometimes what you did was because I think you couldn't believe that I was just there for you and I just cared about you with no agenda, and so you would push back to test it.

And I could see when you're being like a momentary spoilt brat. You weren't really, but you like you were being at times a little bit of hard work, and I'm like, yeah, I'm not going anywhere. You can throw your fucking toys out of the cop I'm not going anywhere. Yep,

I'm still yep. You're shitting me today. You're a pain in the ass for ten minutes, but I'm still going to be here and you can try to fuck it up and you can test me and see if I'm like all the other fucking men that have let you down, I'm just going to be here. And by the way, I don't want anything. I don't want your money, don't want your body, don't want to get in your pants.

It's all good, you know. And that I think because other than your dad, I don't know that you ever had or maybe your uncle as well, that you get on well with, but too many men that just didn't want anything from you in that way.

get it, because that's not what happens. So I knew that there'd been several experiences in my life where strong, independent, courageous tiff gets overtaken and by whatever happens when you have a dissociated type experience, and lets things happen. And then so I think there was that. That's that's why the wall is there. It's like, well, I can't keep myself safe because well, Craig's paying him now, and no one, no one gives anything without taking things I don't want

to give. No one ever does that ever, So if he's now paying me, so our first issues arose for me. It's really, you know, like on a subconscious level, when all of a sudden you're a part of the team. We're going to give you money. You're not just giving service and leaning on me for mentoring. You're a part of the team. There's an exchange. I was like, oh, I'm a commodity. He's buying me. What does he want? He gets to take whatever he wants.

because a Delhi's not safe and I'm alone. My friends weren't there yet, no one knew where I was, and I was like, and I felt different because I could feel that I wasn't that same person and I knew that I was in control of the situation and I wasn't going to slip into the seven year old that just pretends something's not happening or allows things. I felt

very different in the experience. So you know, eventually, when you have awareness on this stuff and you bring it to the surface and you work on things and you lean in, it changes. And that I felt like was a really profound experience and opportunity to happen so quickly to come up and go, oh, I have changed. I am safe in the world. I don't need to be the fighter that you know, like, I don't need that.

I think that's why I've been the boxer, the fighter like I've got guns and I'll fucking knock you out. And I'm not an attractive female that's feminine because I don't want you to come close to me.

you like. If you want to learn some stress management techniques or learn how to do mindfulness practically, you can listen to my voice as much as you want.