I'll get a you bloody champions, it's harps. Welcome to another installment the You Project. You know what for the seven eight hundredth and sometime the other day was episode seven eight hundred and it passed. It came and went, and I didn't even acknowledge it, so I should be mad at me. But anyway, Fuck, it was seventeen hundred and something episodes. We're still here? Did you know that?
The I think it's the average podcast. The average podcast only lasts something like, I don't know, not many three. It might be seven, it might be three, but it's less than ten. So how the fuck we got to seven eeen hundred and something that we've been around six years and people are actually still listening. That's either a testament to what we're doing or an indictment on you listeners. I'm not sure either way. Fucking he fuck we're still here.
I tell you someone who has listened to a few episodes and been to a few workshops of mine and hails from the Sunshine State and has an interesting story and has finally agreed to chat with me on the aforementioned program as Nicole Ladell, who I call Nick. Hi, Nick, hey sore, you go, Oh fuck, I'm so good. I'm so good. It's Sunday, it's five point thirty nine. The birds are singing, the bees are buzzing. It's been a
good day. It's to be honest, it's been a day and a weekend with a few challenges, but we won't go there. Nothing too terrible. But now you were down in Melbourne yesterday you like I said, Sunshine State, and we caught up momentarily and had a coffee in a chat. And I didn't tell you this yesterday because I didn't know when we might do it, and I like telling I like springing it on people so they can't plan.
But I thought, as you were telling me your story that you would be good to have a chat with and before we dive in. So the reason that I want to talk about this everyone is because my demographic is about seventy percent female. Not sure why, so dudes come on lifting you do who are listening that thank you, But if you get a few of your dude mates, that'd be great. But seventy percent female and a lot of women somewhere in the ballpark of thirty five to sixty.
And we know, as I said to you before we started recording. We know that, you know, people listen to this show because they want to learn something, or they want to be a bit inspired, or they want to grow or evolve or improve their situation or their mindset or their physiology, psychology, sociology results in some way. And I'm very impressed with you because when I met you at one of my workshops, how long ago do you reckon our Paths cross? When I'm going.
To say, it was around two thousand and eight.
Right, So that is that is sixteen years ago. So you would have been thirty five years old. And you don't mind me saying that you're fifty one, because that's going to come up. So you were thirty five, and what was life like? What was happening when you were thirty five, because you've had an interesting journey since, But what tell us what thirty five looked like for you? Thirty five looked like a.
I had.
I had lost a lot of weight at that point, so I had followed that online program that we're talking met yesterday and came across you during that.
And I was married and my.
Children were quite young, and I had started doing triathon. I don't know if you remember that. But I used to do triathon.
And yeah, I was married, but it was falling apart.
I'll put it that way, Okay, okay, And so here we are sixteen years later, and it's fair to say that there's been a lot of peaks and troughs and not unlike the host of the You Project, You're gain weight, you lost weight, you got in shape, you got out of shape. You're fucking in the zone, out of the zone, flying, dying, flying, dying up down right. That's it's a typical kind of experience for many people, not all people, but a lot
of people. So I just asked you before we went live, and you've lost thirty five k's I saw you yesterday. You look great. You're fifty one, you fit, you're healthy, you look as good as I've ever seen you. Look. How long have you been in the shape that you're currently in.
I would say so, I've been on a bit of a journey for the last two years. So I've lost thirty five in the last two years. So I've probably been maintained my current weight for about six months, but have been solidly consistently training and eating healthy for over two years.
Great and why do you think it's different this time? And why do you think you won't go back? Like why do you think? I'm sure you think that and I know it, Yeah, you know it. Okay, great, Why do you know you're never going to go back?
I honestly because I've It's not just my body that I've worked on.
So you know, I've done the training, I've lost the weight. But in the last.
Ten or you know, six to ten years, there's been a lot of stuff that's happened where I've really excavated a lot of my own internal stuff.
And you know, kind of looked at.
Patterns of behavior and how I.
Got to where I was and all that sort of thing. And so now my kids are all adults, so I'm not so parenting.
It's me.
It's like I am the priority. And yeah, I love training, like I love living like this. This is this is where I'm happy. So I'm just not choosing to go back to where I wasn't happy.
So you said you had to excavate some internal stuff. I like that, the internal excavation, right, Wow, what stuff? Like what did you need to change or what did you need to own up to or what did you need to realize deal with what was that.
Just how I show up in the world, and like.
The I had to take responsibility for some of the situations that I've been in. Yeah, I'm kind of just understand and the role that I've played in some of the things that have happened in my life that have you know, caused trauma and drama.
So yeah, I just it was really just.
Taking responsibility and learning how to set boundaries, I think was the big one.
We're talking yesterday. I think a little bit about being discerning.
Yeah, yeah, like tell me the relationship between I know I'm interrupting, but it's relevant soon. So we're not you when I asked you about excavating internal stuff, I was talking about in relation to getting in shape. Then you started talking about trauma. Yeah, so talk to me about getting in shape physically and navigating food and exercise and weight loss. And by the way, when we talk about weight loss, we're not talking about, you know, from an esthetic point of view or an ego point of view.
We're talking about health, wellness function. But then you so talk to me a little bit about the correlation you scientists, between the emotional stuff, the trauma stuff, the body stuff and the changing your life forever stuff.
Well I think so I don't know without giving you my entire life story, which I could do but we don't really have time for.
And I think a lot of women can relate to this. So our bodies are very.
Connected to our emotions. I truly believe that, and to trauma as well. So when I went through some stuff, you know, about ten years ago, I started really looking into sematics, so I read you know, The Body Keeps the Score and all of those trauma informed sort of books, and I just I think just having the awareness of I used to use weight to keep the world out, so if I was overweight and big and not attractive, I didn't draw attention to myself and therefore no one could hurt me.
So I've heard that quite a bit. And so for you, was that a subconscious manifestation Like obviously didn't think, all right, what I'm going to do is I'm going to put on thirty k's I'm going to be So that's a subconscious protection, protective mechanism.
Yes, very much so, because I you know, I've been I've been obese, I've been thin, I've been an athlete, I've been all of those things, and the world interacts with us differently.
You know, I don't care how much people say it doesn't matter. It does matter. The world interacts with us.
Differently depending on how we look. And so I felt very vulnerable in the world. So being overweighted, I became invisible and I think I subconsciously deliberately did that.
And so.
Ah, and then you know, the shame that comes around that as well, because health, looking after yourself and health is also one of my values. It's quite a lot living in alignment with my value. So the shame and the guilt comes on top of that. And but then so part of what I had to learn was being discerning and setting boundaries and having self compassion and all of those things that come along with dealing with trauma.
And so once I realized that I can.
Actually set boundaries, then I can then I'm now I'm comfortable being in the world, not you know, not being one hundred kilos. I don't need to be one hundred kilos to keep people away.
It's kind of a two edged sword that, you know, being bigger and heavier, and now I'm invisible, and I don't get the same kind of attension that I didn't want. And I'm less vulnerable now no one's looking at me, and but it is a two edged sword because but also I don't really want to look like this or feel like this, or carry around all of this weight or put my health at risk or yeah, yeah, what what I mean? So for you, what was? Maybe we'll talk about as much or as little as you want.
Have you either way? Have you ever this your first podcast? Every you've done it right, I've done a couple. You're doing very well. Listen to me, giving you a score five stars. We'll talk about any potential trauma stuff maybe if you want, but like on a kind of an emotional level in terms of because I've said this, like my first book literally was about the psychology and the emotion of changing a body, right, And that was really
before I was too clued up. But I realized early days when I was working with people that you know, changing your body and keeping it changed is not really that much about your body. Like your body is the byproduct of sorting out the ship. You need to sort out the emotional and psychological and ritualistic and habitual underlying shit that just happens to create a body that looks
and functions like X and y. You know. And so because your body isn't making decisions, your body is just bearing the brunt of your decisions, be they good or bad decisions. So what was the emotional stuff that you needed to address?
Self compassion?
So can I what does that mean for you? For me?
I have lived most of my life being my biggest critic, So I you know, I would I would be concerned about other people judging me, but no one was judging me more than I was judging myself. Yes, and so I you know, and for choices that I'd made and situations that I ended up in that caused me harm, I blamed myself.
And so self compassion.
Was big on the on the list of things that I had to learn to do, like to be able to say that even good people make mistakes or you know, no one is all good or all bad. And yeah, so just kind of understanding me as if I was dealing with myself as a friend, Like how would I talk to my friend if my friend was going through the stuff that I was going through. So that allowed
me to be softer with myself. Lots off there, but also understanding that my body actually belongs to me, not the world and not a partner or not any man down the street, or you know, like my body one hundred percent belongs to me. Now I actually really believe that now for the first time, at fifty one, that it's mine to do with what I want to do.
You know. Tell me just like like on an intellectual level, you always knew that. Like if I said to you when you were thirty five, Nick, do you know that your body is you'd go, yeah, of course, But tell me about the divergence between intellectually understanding something but at the same time not feeling it, Like what you say, now you know your body's yours. What was the status before?
Well, the status before was the whole people pleasing thing, you know that, which I.
Know you've talked about a lot.
Yeah, and the belief I think it comes down to those world views and those real internal call beliefs. So when I talk about excavating, it's like really getting through what are those core beliefs that are driving the behaviors. So I grew up, like a lot of women, and especially my age, believing that our role was to please others or to you know, I was talking to you yesterday about going to UNI and my dad when I left school, and my dad said, no, you'll get married
and your husband will look after you. Don't need to go to university. Girls don't go to university. So I was the conditioning that my whole role or reason for even existing was to just please other people or two you know what I mean.
So just so you wanted to go to UNI. And dad went, no, you won't go to UNI. You'll marry a bloke and he'll look after you.
Yep, that was his exact words to me, was you don't. Girls don't go to university.
Because I had I had I was. I wanted to do either psychology or drama.
I had applied for both, and I had an audition for the drama program. I can't remember what it was now or even what UNI it was. And my dad said, no, wow, no, girls don't go to university. I'll get you a job in a bank, which he did. He got me a job because.
He knew the bank manager.
I'll get you a job in a bank and then you'll get married and your husband will look after you.
And that's I mean.
I went around about it a different way, but that's essentially what happened.
I didn't. Yeah, okay, so we'll jump around a little bit. But one of the reasons I wanted I wanted to chat to you was because at the astonishingly old age of forty three, you went back or you didn't go back to UNI. So did you do year twelve?
I did you twelve and I had done I think it was maybe two years or a year before I went to UNI. I did finish a diploma, so but that was that was it. I did year twelve. I think I finished Year twelve in I can't even tell you what year it was.
So you finished year twelve at eighteen, and then you started university at forty three, yes, so that's quarter of a century. So all right, So one of I mean, firstly, I don't think I definitely don't think everyone needs to go to university. I think for some people university is and not because they're not smart enough, just because I don't think it suits them. Right. And in fact, if you I'm glad I didn't go to university at eighteen nine and twenty because for me at that stage it
wouldn't have suited me. I wouldn't have been very good at it. I may not have even gone, but when I did, when I did go to university for the first time, which was when I was thirty six, I was mentally, emotionally and practically in the right place. But tell me about like I love the fact that, like I said to you at the start, so many of our listeners are you know, it's like you're almost the demographic.
You know, it's really broad. Of course, we have teenagers who listen, and people in their seventies who listen, and men and women and people from all around the world. But I'm always encouraging people to learn and to be curious and to you know, whether or not that's formal learning education, formal education or informal or experiential or you know whatever. But so, what precipitated the decision to go back to UNI? What was it like? How did you go?
Were you great at it? Were you fucking terrified? What was it like?
Well, the decision was made on a whim. I was.
It wasn't long. I remember you came up and we caught up for coffee. You come up for something and you caught up for coffee.
And I was a little bit of a mess at the time, because I was coming out.
Of an emotionally psychologically abusive relationship. Yeah, so it'd already I'd already been divorced for about five years at the time, and I was I was a bit lost.
So not long after that.
I had a kind of it's that proverbial rock bottom, I think where I had. I kind of came to the conclusion that I was never going to depend on a man again financially.
I needed to take care of myself. Was being financial for me.
Being financially dependent on somebody, which is what I was raised to be, wasn't safe for me.
So I needed to create my own life.
And then a friend of mine had finished her social work degree and I jokingly sort of said, I'd love to I wish I had it gone to UNI or something, and she sort of said, well why don't you.
I said, I'm too old now, and how would I How can I.
Put food on the table and go to use it is not possible, And plus the degree I want to do is a six year degree, and you know all of these reasons. And then another friend of mine, I've mentioned it to another friend of mine and she said, you should just do it, And I said, well, I couldn't even afford the I think it was at the time sixty nine dollars queue TAC fee to apply and the semester was starting in a week or two weeks.
To tell people what q TAC is, Oh, que tech.
Is the Queensland Tertiary. I can't remember what it stands for, but it's it's the application center. So you you have to apply through them and tell them what university and program you want to do, so they're the ones that decide, and so you.
Have to pay a fee to apply.
And she this friend of mine just gave me her credit card number and said do it now.
So I just jumped online and did it.
So at the time, you couldn't even afford that fee.
No, No, at the time, I had friends were buying me groceries.
That's that's where I was at. It was I could. I was barely paying the rent and I had.
I was shopping at the food co op some days this without sounding over dramatic, but some days I didn't send.
The kids to school because I didn't have any lunch for them. So it was bad. It was pretty bad.
It was pretty bad.
So it was really just a it was kind of like I have to do something, Like I had to do something to change the trajectory of my life.
And I didn't.
I didn't know beyond each day what the next week was going to look like.
So I just decided to go to university and suck it and see just show up every day and see where, like just one foot in front of the other.
One semester one thirteen.
You know, semesters are a thirteen week block, and it was like, just get through each thirteen week block and you're moving closer to something. And I started getting so I got that. I got a job at the university pretty much straight away.
Hang On, hang on, hang on, hang on. You didn't tell us about your applied you got accepted.
I got accepted.
Well, tell us about one. What the fuck did you study or what did you apply for? Tell us about getting accepted. How did you feel when you go, fucking hell, I'm a university student.
Yeah, so I did a psychology degree, which is what I'd always wanted to do. And yeah, I got the email to say I got in, and it was, you know, a holy shit sort of moment. I went to O week. I was telling you this yesterday, I went to open day, and I was lost. I had never stepped foot on a university campus before.
To me, university was.
Always something that other people did like it was never I was told that it was never for me, so I believed it was.
Never for me. I was not one of those people.
Right.
So I'm on campus, I'm walking around. I didn't know a single soul. I obviously looked lost, and somebody said, you know, do you need some help? Can I help you find your way? And I said, I'm looking for this building? And they said to me, are you undergrad or postgrad? And I just looked and I went, I don't I don't even know what that means. I don't know what and she went undergrad. If you don't know
the difference, then you're undergrad. I went, okay, And of course, now I know undergrad is like, you know, primary school versus high school.
Could you just explain to our listeners who are basically a version of what you like, what is maybe just go through undergrad? You know, honors and butt like, what is the hierarchy? What does it mean? Just so for people who have got their l plates on with this language.
Yeah, so an undergraduate degree is your first degree right, it's the it's the primary school, I guess you could say. So undergrad is usually the first three to four years, and then once you finish your once you finish your undergrad, then you go to.
Oh you could do honors.
So for the psyche, it's like three years undergrad psyche and then a fourth year of it's called an honor's year.
So that's a level up.
And then you can go to master's level, so a master's degree and then a PhD or you know, a PhD is the highest level of education, so undergrad is the beginning.
pH d is, Yeah, but not everywhere. You don't have to.
Do the whole and so some people might do for example, like an undergrad degree. Generally they're called a bachelor's degree as well, you know, so a bachelor Bachelor of accounting or like me, my first degree was a Bachelor of Exercise Science, or you could do a Bachelor of fucking you know and pitten plaster scene. I don't know, but it's yeah, it can be a start and finish in itself, or yeah, you can build on it. Yeah, so you did your degree, then what do you do after that? After your undergrad?
So then I did the Psychology Honors, which is a twelvemonth degree. It's coursework as well as a research project.
So you have to do a research project.
And what was your research project on? It was.
Perceived impacts of stress on train driver performance.
Wow, hang on, let me perceived effects of stress.
On train drive train driver performance? Yeah, so how do other systems?
Are the stakeholders in the rail industry as well as train drivers, so how do they perceive acute dress would impact a performance? And then we compared those perceptions across all the different jobs and stakeholders across the rail system just to see whether or not the other people and the other people working in rail understood the same. It's the experiences of train drivers because they're the ones making all the decisions.
So that was basically what it was about.
Can I just backtrack a tiny bit? That's that's interesting. I just want I just want to know what the first semester of day, one week, one semester one of university life. For the girl who didn't know what an undergrad degree was, it was.
Yeah, I knew.
I went and sat in my first lecture theater. I can still feel the feeling and I'd never been in a university lecture theater before and they're big, like they seek three four hundred people, right, and in fact Monash.
Is probably he's bigger than ours.
But sat there with one hundreds of students and the lecturer comes in and I'm just like, wow, I'm here. This is where I like this is. I knew that that's where I needed to be. It was this deep innate knowing that that was the right place for me. I had no idea, and you know, I struggled the first semester. I white knuckled it. I didn't understand, you know, I took about mean and medium and mode and all
that sort of stuff. There was basic knowledge that I didn't have that there was assumed knowledge that I didn't have. So I struggled in the first semester of just trying to even understand the basic stuff. So there were times where I thought I don't belong here, Like there were times where I thought I can't do this, and then I.
Was just like, well, just suck it and see just see how you go.
And then you know, you get your first assignment back and you get good marks, or someone.
Says you write really well, or you know, just the little things along the way that just keep you going.
So it's like and it's like for me, going to UNI was like going to a new country where you know that everyone speaks English, but they also speak another language that you don't have. I'm like, oh and now, as you well know, now, although you you were better prepared for me because Nicole's now doing her PhD. But you know, that's a whole another level of language and culture and understanding and and the way that that that you know that that level of academia is yeah, that's
like going to Russia. Well that's like kind somewhere definitely where they don't speak Craig. Like where I'm at, nobody speaks Greg which neither should they. But it's it's a new world, isn't it.
Yeah, completely different world.
And I did everything I could to to make sure that I had the best chance.
To do well.
So I sought out all of the academic skills workshops. I went to every everything I could go to to help me build skills.
I went to.
I engaged in everything possible within the university, and that was you know, later on down the track when I started working with new students and stuff, it was like that was my That was my key piece of advice, is just engaging everything possible to support yourself through the process. Because I hadn't I really had no idea.
So I want to know about the dough. I want to know about the dough, ray me, because before you started, you had no money and you're worry about how do I put fucking food on the table. Now you still don't have a job, and now you're a student on top of that, so like, how did you How did your children not starve to death and die of neglect.
I applied for scholarships and worked really hard, so I didn't go one semester where I Apart from the first semester, every single.
Semester after that I was awarded some.
Kind of scholarship, even if it was just one thousand dollars, So anywhere from one thousand dollars to five thousand dollars. Scholarships were available for students. Some of them were merit based, some of them were bursary based, you know, demographic based, so that helped.
That helped a lot.
After the first six months, I started applying for jobs at the university and I got a job, a casual position in students Central and then I became a student ambassador. So I just I just ended up with a few different casual jobs around the university, which subsidized because our study doesn't really pay a lot. And so when I finished my honors, I was working. I had started working for a research center who I did my honors with.
And then when I finished my honors, I took some time off to take care of myself and do all the things, and then I worked full time at the research center for eighty months, and then before I started doing the PhD. So yeah, it's over time. I just you know, it's just having faith at what you're doing. I think when you're in alignment with your values, and I know you talk about this a lot, but I truly believe it. When you're in alignment with your values, it's almost like.
I had no idea.
What was coming next, but I had faith that I was doing the right thing because it felt good and it was in alignment with what I wanted in life.
And it was almost like the red carpet.
Just kept rolling out in front of me, and I just kept taking a step. I had no idea where it was going, but it was moving me forward. So yeah, and so now you know.
What, do you know what this reminds me. I've had this conversation with Melissa and a few others. I don't know if I've ever mentioned it in seventeen hundred and two episodes, but it's like, I always think, what about if, like that really fucking person who's awesome at that thing, Like let's say Serena Williams had never picked up a tennis racket. Yeah, Let's say she grew up in a
different place and her dad wasn't interested in tennis. Let's say her dad drove trucks or a dad was a lawyer or whatever, and she went to school and but that same woman or that same girl at that stage, with the same potential and the same genetics in a different context, with different interactions and resources, And I feel like it's like somebody handed you your tennis racket at forty three.
Yeah, it was very much like that. And I think, you know, I was very fortunate when I started working at the research center. My boss there is just a phenomenal woman who and it's you know, it's academia can be very difficult where it's a lot of academics, bless them, have the point of view that they did it tough and they'refore sociod.
You right, and it's ed it.
You know, it's not that it's rare, but when you get when you come across an academic who is willing to take you under their wing and mentor are you, it's a gift, like it really is. And I've been really fortunate in the center that I work for. It's they're very supportive of helping you develop skills and grow into the space. So it was almost like they saw
my potential and then showed it to me. Yeah, because I had no idea that what I had no idea what I was capable of until they put some things in front of me and I went, oh, I can do this. Yeah, so I was yes, literally was handed.
Yeah, it is. It is funny that you think about what what dormant potential do people have, Like what do we like imagine I think about that for myself, even like I don't know, like who would I be if I had you know, let's say I was the same genetically the same, and I have the same brain and the same body and the same genetic potential and the
same innate potential, creative, intellectual, academic, whatever, sporting, whatever. But I was just raised in a different place with different interactions and experiences, and I wonder what I would have done and who I would have become. Or imagine if you know, like imagine if you know somebody not you know,
clearly I never would have been well probably not. But somebody had to give me a tennis racket when I was six and they went off, you go, and here's a coach, and here's a you don't know, you know, or if somebody you know, if my mum and dad were academics, I would have probably been groomed to be
an academic. Or if you were raised in a you know, you were living on the beach and bloody Queensland, I might have grown up with a surfboard under my arm or you know, or not saying I have any athletic potential anyone, but you know, it's like you just don't know, and so much like you think about how much of who you were at forty three, not that that was good or bad, but was essentially just a by product
of life happening. It's not like you consciously, it's not like you said, you know, when I'm forty three, this is where I want to be. No, you woke up one day and yes, you'd made choices along the way, good and bad, and you know, but it's like, in
many ways me included. You know, you get to a point where you're like, okay, so I'm thirty or I'm forty, or I'm fifty or and you know, I'm kind of to blame or not or you know, some of how I got here was about my choices and behaviors, but some of it it's just a byproduct of shit that happened to me around me and here I am. And then you think, like, even at sixty one, I think I still think what can I do? What can I learn?
What can I get better at? How do I how do I Like yesterday I did a forty five minute stretching session. Right now, I know this sounds ridiculous, but so one of my goals in the next year or two is to be able to do the splits, because who the fuck you know at sixty one, who's got ship flexibility? And I go, I reckon, I can do that. I probably can't, but I reckon I can, you know. So, like I'm so fascinated just with and not just for
the sake of doing something. But but you know, leaning into that curiosity around well, you know, like you, well, now you're doing a PhD and you're a you're a legit academic, and you're a researcher and you were a research assistant or I think you still do some of that. Brothers, It's like, oh, so if you had a mate, you know, on that day, if that lady didn't say, I reckon, you should do it, and I'm going to pay for that whatever it is, and Mama, maybe we wouldn't be having this chat.
No, I'm and in fact, I dread to think where I would have ended up really like and I and I do think about that sometimes. You know, my kids probably would have ended up having to go and live with their dad, and I would have ended up living with my dad, had rent you know, living in his spare room.
And I just.
Yeah, the timing was it was it felt just in time. Yeah, you know, I realized my potential or just not even that I just went for it.
Just in time. That's how I feel.
Yeah, you know, we spoke yesterday, you and I about both kind of being accidental academics, and you know, I don't know if I told you this bit, but no, I don't think I did. But I told you the second bit about my PhD. But my under the story around my undergrad is so I used to have a trainer who worked for me, who was had a double degree in still has a double degree in physiotherapy and occupational therapy. Really smart, and you know, we talk about stuff.
I would consult with her around certain things with clients because you know, not only was she a training but also in OT and a physio, which is very handy on stuff. And she was always saying, you know, you should do a degree, you should do excise science. And I'm like, ah, you know, I'm not that guy. And I'm you know, like, but it was really I was interested, but absolutely thought I was too stupid. I lacked confidence.
I lacked I didn't know. I was like you if you had have said, I didn't know what an undergrad degree or postgrad degree, I didn't know. I didn't understand the language. I was like, So anyway, I didn't apply for UNI. She applied for me. She applied for me, and then I got place at UNI the first time.
Like by the time she'd applied, she told me and I went, and then and then I was involved from them, but the initial application, all the stuff, like she just sent it in as though she was me, Yeah, I hope I don't take the degree back now, but no, I did the work. Yeah, but there's no way, like I would not have made that decision because I was too scared. I lacked confidence. I was probably had too much ironically insecurity and ego, you know where you're like
insecure because what if I look stupid? Ego, what if I look stupid? What if I go and I can't do it? Because I already had a profile, and you know, I was kind of well known and I owned three gyms, and I was writing for the Herald's son and you know, in the tiny fish bowl of my life, I was someone in my mind and my mum's mind. But then you go, well, fuck, what if I go to university and I'm too dumb and I have to drop like
all the shit. And then and then, as I said to you yesterday, for my you know, the post grad stuff, for I literally got asked to talk at Monash at the Neuroscience neuropsych Lab which is called Brain Park. I went and did a talk and spoke to the students and the faculty about my work and what I do and how I do it, which was hilarious because, as I said to you, I was the wildly the most least qualified person in the room talking to all the
people with PhDs. And then after that, I had a coffee with one of the dudes who said, have you thought about doing a PhD? And I laughed, I'm like, have you met me? Do I seem like an academic? And it just went from there and it wasn't I mean, he wasn't urging, but he was like, oh, you could, and you know, like you the shit that you do, you could do something in the psyche space. And I'm like,
it never dawned on me. But if he had not said I think you could do it, I think you might go okay at it, and I think you might like it, because on no level did I think that I was worthy, qualified, smart enough any of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah, So it isn't it funny how like this kind of happens, right?
Yeah?
And I remember when I finished the third year of psych it was like, I don't think I don't have what it takes to do honest. That was what I was telling people, I'm like, I don't think I'll apply for honest, I don't think I have what it takes to do honors. And luckily, again it was you know, the people around me that said, yeah you can, you so can.
What else you going to do?
Like, what can you do with you know, there's not there is options for three year psych degree, but you can't become a psychologist with the three year degree.
You can't. There's not a lot you can do without going a little bit further with the side. And I was working at the center and my boss was like, yeah, well, you know, we'll do you.
So my bosses at the research Center were my psych honors supervisors and they are now my PhD supervisors. So they have carried me through my whole journey of academia. So I've been very very fortunate, but also taking up the opportunities when they present themselves, like seeing them and I have a thing, you know, encouragement is just borrowed courage.
So if someone encourages me to do something, it's they're just lending me some courage and I'll take that and I'll you know, you just keep moving forward until you get your own momentum.
That's what it's been like.
Yeah, and how do you I mean it's hard because you you know, your your view of the world, like my view of the world is subjective, and the way you see you as subjective. But how do you think so fifty one year old you versus forty three year old you, how do you see the world differently? How do you see you differently? Has your how is your you know, your cognitive emotional paradigm shifted.
I have a lot more respect for myself, you know, and my capabilities, and my voice doesn't shake so much when I talk to people who I think are smarter than me.
You know.
It's that kind of I kind of feel like I've earned my.
Place in the world, not because I've done a degree, but because I did what.
I didn't think I could do and I did it well.
So it was that It's more the climbing of the mountain that has given me the confidence, not the certificate. It was it was doing it in spite of And I've earned my place in the world not because I have an education, but because I did the hard stuff and came out at the other end, and I now
don't let people push me around anymore. Like I just I'm like, no, that doesn't work for me because I I have a more solid sense of self now after doing that, because it was hard and it was you know, and I was so parenting the whole way through and that was hard, and no one can take that away from me that I did that.
Yeah, isn't it funny how many people, you know, once they do something hard, whether or not it's you know, overcome cancer or build a business or brand or do a course or whatever. You know, even raise kids, which is maybe the hardest fucking job, you would know that.
It's not like.
I mean, but it's it's like so many people say a version of it's not about the summit. It's not about the top of the mountain. It's about the climb, and it's about you know, while getting a degree and an honors degree and eventually a PhD degree, which fucking congratulations, by the way, it's amazing, and all of that is great, but like I see a profound change in you, like profound the way that you talk. You're this is this is this is going to sound silly, right, Not that
you ever seem dumb. You're always intelligent, but it's like you seem smarter, but you're not smarter. You're just more confident, but confident in a good way. Not not arrogant, not you know what I mean. And I love that, And I love the fact that you've grown and learned and evolved and you've done some you know, like some stuff that is been really challenging and we don't have time to day, but you also went through a lot of trauma and abuse that maybe we'll come back and talk
about one day. And you're not you know, you're not bitter and twisted and hateful and hurtful, and like you're philosophical and you've learned and grown and you know, you're kind and you're aware and you're empathetic, but you won't put up with bullshit, which is good. Like you're a little bit terrifying and a little bit gorgeous like my mum. Like my mum's gorgeous, but don't fuck with her. You know, she's five foot nothing of absolute fucking terror, you know,
Like I love that. Well, so we've got to wine, but no pleasure. It's true, you know, it's like who you become is the key, you know, I think with all this, you think about people acquiring and doing and box sticking. Nothing wrong with any of that, but like, Okay, you've got this, you've earned that, you own that, you've got this title, you've got that body, you've got that car,
you've got whatever. This many followers cool. But in the middle of all of those things that you've done and achieved in boxes, you like coop you become and how are you? Are you happy? Are you in field? Are you content? Do you sleep great? Are you you know?
Are you mentally, emotionally, physically healthy? And you know, there are so many people that have done so much stuff which is good, and they've collected and owned and whatever, accumulated so much stuff, and in the middle of their stuff, they're fucking broken, you know, they're unhappy all feel and it's like, nothing wrong with building and accumulating, but we need to work on us as we do the building and accumulating, right.
Well, yeah, and I think too because I say to my kids all the time, like I couldn't really I don't.
Really care what my kids do with their lives.
As long as they're as long as they're not shit humans, like, as long as they care about other people and that they're available for other people and that they're you know, as long.
I want them to be well taken care of.
And make sure they've got food on the table and the roof over their heads and all of that and successful in that way. But and I say to them all the time, your happiness through life is directly correlated with how well you relate to other people and your relationship with other people. And if you cannot get that right, then it doesn't matter what you own, it doesn't matter. If you can't have healthy relationships, friendships, interactions.
With other human beings, then what's the point. What's the point being here? So, yeah, that was That's a big thing for me.
Yeah, Hey, you're quite good at this. If people want, are you okay for people to follow you on Insta or wherever? Or send you an email if somebody I don't.
Really have a presence, I don't really I mean apart from just my personal accounts.
But so if somebody wanted to message you where, would like on Facebook or Insta or should send us an email and we'll forward it to you.
But uh, yeah, on Insta, I'm Nick Underscore.
Liddell, so and I see underscore L I double D E double L L yea, that can. Yeah.
And because I'm just knickknack on Facebook, so that's not really.
That probably Facebook.
Yeah, yeah, Hey, I know you've done a couple, but this is your debut with us. That was great, that was so interesting, and I'm super proud of you and keep being amazing. And thanks for taking this call on very short notice.
Thanks, thanks for inviting me. It's an honor.
Thanks Nick, You're great. To see you next time. Yeah,