I get are you bloody Champions, It's Jumbo, It's Craig Anthy Harper, It's the You Project. It's Rena Ingles, It's me, it's you, It's us, wherever you are, whatever you do and happy, bloody, terrific. Renee Ingles, Welcome to the You Project.
Oh it is so good to be here. Greg, super excited. I want to be here.
I'm very excited to have you. I'm like, it's funny when I interview or chat with interviews the wrong word. But when I chat with my friends that I've known for a very long time, it's different. It's a different energy. I interviewed a lady last night who was amazing, an author and a creative and the name's Samantha Wills, and she's a big deal and she's got all these followers
and it was great and she was lovely. But it's a completely different preparation and different mindset and different energy to talking. Like, I feel like I don't need to get myself in a different state. But because I know I know you, I kind of know the vibe and the energy and the emotion, so I don't have to be on guard. You know, when you're talking to a stranger.
You're always thinking, I wonder how this will go. I wonder what they're like, and I wonder how they'll be around me because I'm a lot So I've been excited.
Oh honestly, so have I.
And I would say even coming on as a guest, I would say exactly the same thing. Like, my preparation for your podcast is very different to another podcast of where I maybe don't know the host as well as I know you, And my preparation for you was nothing. I was like, I'm going to show up today and I'm going to be me and I'm going to have a great chat to Crago, and I've been really excited about it.
One hundred per And for those of you who are thinking, what's Craigo? You probably heard me interview Bianca the other day. Who calls me Craigo. Charrell, who's been on the show, calls me Crago, And so people who over the journey have been close to me, like a lot of family and friends. Is probably about aty people in the world who call me that. So if you hear someone call me that, you know that we're at some stage been quite intertwined in our journeys. Did you hear me. You
probably didn't, but did you? Did you know? I chatted to be the other day.
I was about to say, I can't believe I haven't listened to that one. Is that one out yet? Yeah?
Yeah, yeah it came out the other day.
I didn't realize that one of my most favorite people in the whole wide world be.
Yeah, she's such a bloody she's so smart too, bi Ancha. It's like, clearly a very good athlete Bianca Chatfield we're talking about. If you're not sure, go back a few episodes. You'll find her obviously a great athlete and all of that, but really quite creative, quite intelligent, good communicator. She's like, quite good at quite a lot of things, isn't.
She Definitely, and very quiet about it. If you don't realize quite how intelligent Bianchor is, she's certainly not forthcoming with how much she does know, which I think.
I like that about it intrigues me a little bit. Time with her. I learned something different.
Mmmmmm, well when I was talking to her the other day, and well, your bio is significant as well. I learned something about you today that I did not know, but which I'll share in a moment, but yeah, you know. So, she hosts The Nettie on Fox. She hosted the afl W Footy Show for a couple of years. Oh, she does lots of media, lots of corporate speaking, lots of stuff in and around elite sport. You know, she owned gym,
she she renovates homes, She was on the block. She was, of course alongside you are fucking superstar netballer representing the country something times like and and like you a mum and all of that stuff. So it's the transition from sport into life. Well, I know that sport and life are intertwine, but I guess the transition out of sport
as an athlete everyone copes differently with. So for my listeners who don't, rather than me ring out, read out a bunch of stuff, tell my listeners give them like the however much you want the backstory to you a bit of a snapshot of let's just start with the sports stuff and then we might go back beyond. Sure.
Well, for me, I think I came through the pathway really traditionally, I was a Victorian netballer through and through. Started playing for my first state team when I was in grade six and literally just went through every level of state age. Was lucky enough to get a call up to the Melbourne Phoenix as a development player when I was only fifteen and would go in once a month and train with the team, and then honestly my
netball journey just took off from there. I decided not to go to the Australian Institute of Sport because I thought I am in a club and in a team here training with the best athletes and best team in the world. Why would I chose to go on live in Canberra, away from my family and friends and play with girls at my level. So I decided and made the hard decision and was told I would never play
for Australia because I made that decision. But the in Phoenix purple blood was just pumping through my veins forever really and went through and was lucky enough to play nationally for the Phoenix for the Melbourne Vixen's got it to a bit of a plateau in my career, so moved over to Adelaide for six years, was lucky enough
to captain the club there, played for Australia. I went to two Commonwealth Games in a World championships and then from there kind of started life as a mum, went back to netball again, which is probably some of my favorite memories on the netball court. I was after coming home and now I'm sitting over here in Orlando, Florida as my husband plays in the NBA. So it's a seventeen year career. Feels like it just went by in a flash, absolute flash.
Well, you were fifteen when you rock up at the Phoenix, and then seventeen years later you hung up the boots, so to speak. What do you remember of the first time like rocking up? I mean not even a teenager, like an eighten or nine year old, like like three years before you were twelve, I mean you were you
were just what was that like? Going into that environment with, as you said, probably the best club team in the world and definitely some of the best players in the world at that time, what was that like?
Easily and at the time, Joyce Brown was actually the coach as well, so absolutely phenomenal coach. I remember feeling like a kid in that environment. But I remember the feeling just in my hands and running out in the cold to warm up and just going this is what I want to do with my life. I want to be like these girls. I want to be Lisbonila and
Susan Meani. And remembering just I was a static, I was only allowed to come in once a month at that time, and there was your Briany Cargiles and your Julie Prendergast, and we would go as our little young group and train with them, and I aim to just not drop a ball and hope to not be seen, not to be noticed really at that time, and then fast forward a couple of years from there when we're
actually contracted. It's that same thing. The one thing that I would say about the Melbourne Phoenix, which I think has held true through my entire career before and after sport, is just the people that I came into the environment with those older girls around me never treated us differently. They really did take us under their wing and show us the way and didn't give us any favors. Let's say that it was work. You turned up and if you're rocking up ready to train, then you rock up
and ready to train. There's no going easy on one. And I learned that from day one in that environment, and I loved that about the environment. I think when I think about sport now and even some of the teams I played with in later in my career, I think that old school mentality is not around anymore. It's very very different environment and elite now. So I think that held through with me for most of my career.
When I started. When I started working with the Phoenix, you girl, I'd come out of football, so I'd worked in AFL for four years with Some Kilda and then with Port Melbourne and the VFL, and like lots of blokes, I'd worked with lots of men and track athletes and kind of fighters and a few swimmers, and like also quite a few women, but disproportionately more blokes. And then from the rest of my career it has been eighty
percent women, which is amazing in terms of athletes. But I remember coming in thinking, I guess, not really having high expectations because the sport then was semi professional. You girls were paid fuck all. You were all either studying or working and playing netball, and you were expected to train and did train like full time elite athletes, which
you weren't, but you were elite athletes. But you all had to support yourselves, either academically or financially, and I remember thinking, I don't know what I expected, but I was blown away by the intensity and the ferocity and the fucking take no prisoners in training, in training, and then and then I rocked up and I'd never this is to my own detriment, right, But I got asked by the then coach if I would come along and do some conditioning works, which kind of grew and grew
until you know, I was there for a long time and played, you know, in that space, a reasonable role, I guess. But I remember the first game of the first season, when I'd been there only maybe a few months, doing all the preseason and training and conditioning and building a relationship with all you girls slash women, And I came to the first game and I was in the change rooms and everyone was just hanging out and chatting and laughing and talking shit. And I don't know if
you remember this story. I've told this once or twice, but I remember being really worried because I'm like, fuck, where are their heads? Like they are not like they're just talking bullshit. No one's focused, like we're going out in twenty minutes. Everyone's fucking giggling and there's music playing, and there's this is this is bullshit, this is not elite sport and all this because in the AFL rooms, like it's like quite intense, you know, intense, and there
were funny things. It wasn't it was like a good environment, a fun environment. But then then everyone ran out and it was just like everyone crossed that line and it was like two different people, two different teams. I'm like, oh my god. And probably at the top of the list in terms of white line fever. I mean, you were okay yourself, but Bianca who went from being the nicest person to the biggest bitch, and she would say that, she would say that, she said it the other day
and she's like, yeah, I wasn't. Yeah, I didn't want to shake anyone's hand. I didn't want to. I wasn't in for that warm and fuzzy you know. Maybe afterwards, but I remember, I can't I can't remember which athlete it was, but someone held out their hand to her and she pushed it away.
Or one of those girls. Feaver came became worse depending on who we're playing. Like when it was Phoenix Viva Sydney Swift, it was on like it was on.
Yeah.
Yeah, and we're the same at training, Like we got the same at training.
I would expect if I was running past and I was in Bianca's way, that I'd get clipped.
Just get on with it.
So your husband, as you said, Joe plays for the Timberwolves Minnesota timbwlves in the NBA. Has been a bunch of teams. Is he's, without doubt one of Australia's best ever basketball has done incredible stuff. You you did more than what you said. You played sixty seven games for Australia, you won a World Championship, you won common Wealth Games gold, common Wealth Games silver. You've got a master's degree in
high performance, Is that right? You've got you know, you've got to like, you've done some incredible shit, right, But since you were a kid, you've been around high performance, whether or not that's in sport or in mindset or both. Right, tell me about the importance of being around people who drag you up.
Oh, for me, I think being around people that raise your standards all the time of the reason that I got to where I was, I think for me, I had talent and I had skill, But I think it's always been the hard work that has held me to where I am, and I actually think when I think of my career and look back at what I was able to achieve, I'm really grateful for it, But what I actually think about is so much hard work behind it.
None of that came naturally for me, especially physically, which a lot of people towards the end of my career used to think that I was this physical beast, and I was like, yeah, I've worked for ten years to be this physical beast because of some feedback, honestly that I had received when I as young as seventeen eighteen nineteen.
With you guys and your.
Team, having good people around you is crucial for any success. I think, whether that is performance on the Sporting cort, performance, performance as a mum, performance in your relationships, music, whatever
it is that your career does. The people that you have around you, I think is crucial to your success or your lack thereof success, and then also your enjoyment of that too, because you know the team that you're in and the people you're around, the enjoyment that you have, I think that leads to better results and stuff as well. And I think I've always been held to really high standards since literally since I was a little.
Girl in the home that I grew up in.
It was, you know, looking the right way, presenting the right way, working hard, finishing things that I start. If you commit to something, you're committed to it. There's no dropping out, there's no quitting. All of those sorts of things up and through teams and coaches and you know the expectations and goals that you have to meet. And I think that's both been a strength and a weakness
for me. Always wanting to be the absolute high performer has been something obviously that I look back on my career and I'm grateful for because of what I was able to achieve.
But I think everything comes at a cost.
I was going to ask you about that, so beautiful segue. Thank you for doing that. So one of the dichotomies of sport is that on the one hand, you almost have to be, if not have to be obsessed. An obsession ain't healthy, right, It's like, well, you have to sacrifice a lot, Like there's a even if you're talented, and there's still all the work and there's still all the external variables, you know, diet, nutrition, sleep, recovery, injury management,
you know, psychology, all that. There are so many things that contribute to the end product, which is your performance as an athlete and also the performance as a team. But in the middle of that, you know, sometimes what we see, what you've seen, definitely, what I've seen is people who are amazing athletes but kind of almost broken humans because you know, in some ways their world class and in some ways you know they're emotional messes when
no one's looking right. It's not an easy thing because everything comes at a cost. Tell me a little bit about what if if you're comfortable to some of the stuff that you struggled with off court in terms of you the human, you, you, the mum, you, the sister, you, the daughter, you, the person just trying to figure out how the fuck life works.
Yeah, how deep do you want to go? Craig?
I think want to I think that for me, sport and how hard I was able to work and what I was able to achieve through that became my badge of honor and my shield. So when it came to emotions, I didn't show any It was really easy for me physically and even psychologically to lock in that there is this greater cause and this goal I've got to reach and anything that gets me in the way, I'm going
to tear down. And I think I lost myself along the way in that, especially as a leader, in that I grew up in a time and felt in the house that I grew up that emotion was weakness, and that leader, I always had to be the strongest one, the fittest one, and that meant not showing the emotions, getting on with it, having that grit and that resilience and all of those things which I think left the human renee behind, and robot machine renee was made and that was the easy part of doing it.
I was able to do that.
And then I think when you get into the next phase of your life and after sport, when all of a sudden you're not achieving things, or not getting the external pat on your back, or not connecting with people as well as you would because that's not what you
knew you would naturally do. It's incredibly hard. And I just think life as an athlete as another layer to that is you have to be selfish, You have to be obsessed, and you have to be selfish when it comes to what you eat, what you drink when you sleep, what you wear, like when you train, Everything that you do in your day revolves around you and your performance.
And then for me, transitioning out of that and becoming a mum, which you have to be the most unselfish human being in the world because nothing is about you anymore,
has been quite a big identity shift. But long story short, I think I lost my identity along the way in my career because so much of who I was was tied up in Renee as the netballer and Renee is the athlete, and in all realms of my life, I would show up as Renee as the netballer and the Renee as the athlete, and that was my brand and lost the human side of me along the way.
Wow, where did you Where did you learn that? Without trying to throw anyone under the bus, any family member under the bus, but where did you learn that emotions equal weakness?
I think I grew up in a house that we didn't have a lot financially. I think my parents were incredibly, incredibly hard workers in their own right and together trying to put food on the table and keep the lights on in the house for my siblings and I I was the oldest, so have always taken the care take
a role. So I think I learned really early on that one if I was achieving, and if I was people pleasing and essentially being this chameleon that could mirror the person sitting across me and give them the answer that I thought they wanted from me and nice mind and be the easy child, that that was the way to go. And I think just even growing up in a time where like showing emotion and be like, I don't play like a girl. Like you'd hear that, don't play like a girl. So I was like, ohyeah, I've
got to be the top all of the time. And then I even just think about like my teenage years, a couple of teams that I missed out on where i'd be really upset. I think I got good feedback around how tough I was to like just pick myself up, get back in the gym the next day. It's hard, work out to be better next week or to make the next team, And started getting recognition from that, so you start going, Okay, I'm on a good thing here.
So yeah, I think just over time it chipped away, and then leadership positions and stuff I think connection for me wasn't something that came naturally because I was quite shy. I've always had a pretty low self esteem or like critiquing in a voice with me, So I think connection early on wasn't easy. So I think I felt like if I was showing emotion, that I was putting something on someone else. So I always wanted just to be the happy one, the nice one, the one that wanted
to be liked and valued and loved. So I to say thing rather than say my thing.
Yes, yes, I mean my time you know, spent around you, me and a coaching role, you were in an athlete role. It was I've never told you this. It was almost like you were a little bit like, give us a hug, but fuck off though yes, yes, like I always say, Tiff who works with me? Tif TIFFs, TIFF's really the
ice is broken with her. But for a long time, it's like she wears a T shirt that says, give me a hug, and at the same time a baseball cap that says, nah, fuck off, just kidding, you know, And you were like, you're always pleasant, you're always professional, You're always nice. But it was I found it hard to get through the renee Veneer, you know, and then then but I mean we got them well, there were no problems and it was all you know, it was.
It was friendly enough. But then it's funny because you and I have reconnected in the last I don't know, month or two, and we've spoken a bit, and we've you know, we've connected interacted, and you've jumped in one of my groups and fucked around a bit and contributed to the group, and we've spoken like this. If you and I feel like I've gotten to know you more in a probably you know, four or five chats than however many years that was because you're you're the same, but you're not the same.
Now, totally agree, and that has taken Obviously, I'm a lot older now. When you first met me, I was seventeen eighteen and trying to navigate what that meant for a young girl in elite sports and trying to work out relationships and all of the things. But yeah, I think, through more of my career than not, that is the
way I was. I thought letting people in, I mean you know this, you know this in relationships, but letting people in gave me the opportunity to be let down, so not letting people in was easier, and wearing this hard armor and just being this elite athlete.
I thought it was going to serve me better. Now.
Of course, if I had my time again, i'd do things a little bit differently, but you.
Know, it's all part of it. It's part of growth.
One thing that I will say throughout my entire career, even since I was a little girl, I've loved to learn.
I've loved growth. I'm obsessed with learning, obsessed with growth, want to.
Be better, I love evolving, I love learning new things
about myself. So that is a part of life now and starting to get closer to the age of forty and up there that I'm actually really enjoying that self awareness piece and how much that is growing, and why I want to do the work that I'm doing at the moment and work with athletes and people that are still doing it, because if they can harness some of that stuff about who they are as people, not just what their job title is or what they identify like with are they an athlete or whatever, who they are
as a person away from the court. Because I didn't give enough time to that. I just put everything whilst I was still studying and working out what life was going to look like and navigating those relationships that so much of my identity was tied to the athlete and who she was.
I know there's a million answers to this, but in general terms, so now you're the thirty eight year old mum of three elect an ex elite athlete, wife to a current elite athlete. You're in and around high performance and have been most of your life, and now you've got more experience, more miles on the clock. You've got a different perspective, you've got more understanding and self awareness and other awareness, and mentally, emotionally and socially, you've evolved
a lot. So now we plunk you in front of a group of people who are basically a version of you twenty years ago. What are the things that you want to share with them? How do you want to connect with them?
For me, I think it's about them understanding themselves. So I'm not asking them about their sport. I'm not asking about what teams they have or haven't made. I'm not asking about what their goals are in that realm. I want to know what they're passionate about, what fills their cup? What do other people? What do they bring to other people? What do they love? Who are the relationships?
Who's holding them up? I think?
I think what I've learned is that connection can really affect your quality of life, and connection really affects your performance.
So what do those connection pieces think?
Because I have always thought and any girl that sits in front of me, and even my daughter is eight and I'm trying to have these conversations with her now that my badge of honor was how independent I was. I'm this independence wrong, kick ass, superhuman, right, But there's only so much I can achieve on my own, and that interdependency is what actually, that connection piece is what's actually going to make us thrive, not just survive. Because for a long time I was just driving, so I
would who's in your corner? How are they helping you? And how are you helping them? And what is it you actually love? M I think so much of us I would or like if people back then had said to me, hi, who are you? I would say, Hi, I'm I'm an buller.
Yes, so interesting. It's like independences, like that defiant independence. It's like a two edged sword because on the one hand, it's like, fuck people, I don't need people. I'm fuck
I can do this. And on the other side, you're like, well, if I need people, that's a dependency and that's weak, right, yeah, And that's I used to be a little bit like that too, because in a different realm, but trying to me, trying to succeed build something that would work, not as an athlete, but as a whatever, as a business person, entrepreneur, creator, scientist, whatever, trying to figure it out, and it's it's the same.
And you know, the other I guess curveball in the middle of this is as an elite athlete, when you're in demand, like you you work for a very long time and still are to a level I'm sure, but there are a bunch of people who want something from you.
So I think sometimes it's like I get you probably get as many I get, I don't know, ten times a week someone who has an opportunity for me, And then I look in I go, the only person that's an opportunity for is them, you know, because they want something from me, and it's just it's a sales pitch
dressed up as a fucking opportunity. And so you know, not that you want to be overly cynical, but you still have to be careful about for whom you open the door to your heart and your head, right, And so there's not everybody is not everybody that's here to help is here to help. No.
I agree, it's such a hard thing to navigate. And I think what I'm learning now and a lot of this especially, and you know, it's a bit of a buzzword, but like vulnerability, is that you've just got to take the risk, like with other people.
I think.
I was never the one to get vulnerable first or put myself out there because I was scared of what was going to happen.
But it almost takes that.
I don't know. I just think I would love to I would love to play this. I'd love to play this chapter seventeen year old you, you would have gone, who the fuck is that?
I literally would? Yes, Yes, I know.
Tell me about so knowing what you know, having been where you've been, and kind of you and Joe have had, you know, like similar journeys from a sport and development and getting to the pointy end of where you could get to in your chosen field. And now I know you're much more than this, But part of your role, I guess is support crew for him. You know, of course you're a lot more than that, but that's you know, to support your husband. And what does that look like?
How do you how do you know how much to say, when to say, when to shut the fuck up, when to step in, when to step away? Because I feel like that's a skill set.
One thing that I would say, and Joe and I have been together now about fifteen years, never ever have I ever given him any sort of feedback on a basketball skill ever, nor because he'd laugh in my face and say, what are you talking about?
But when it.
Comes to body language, how is moving his facial expressions, how his energy looks, how he was contributing to the group or not contributing to the group, what he is doing in the lead up. Is this beneficial for you and your performance? All of those stuff around who he is an athlete? Absolutely, I say it, and we have really good healthy conversations around that. But I would just never ever give him any sort of skilled basketball advice, just on the reverse that he would have never done
that to me in netball. But I would have to
say that as being an ex athlete myself. Is one of the best things about being married to Joe, and one of the hardest things about being married to Joe is that my career is done, and there's almost this sense of like, oh, if I'd done this then, or I know this, so you should know this now and let me help you with this, or do this because it's differently, and one day that'll be gone and you know, all of the feelings of what I've lost that he still gets to do, and then the feeling of me
walking into his stadiums and sitting there and being so happy to love and support and watch him do his thing.
Of course as an.
Eleinem in my heart where I'm like, oh, I'd love to be back in the stadium full of people that are cheering for me out there. But yeah, Joe and I our entire careers have gone about things completely differently.
We're like chalk and cheese athlete that he is as opposed to the athlete that I am, and our preparation and who we are as athletes has always been really different, and I actually think that has been a really nice balance because he can calm my farm and I can energize him and have some more of those high performance behaviors that he wouldn't necessarily have had in the first place.
What's harder? I think I know the answer. Elite's elite sport or being a mum.
I'll be a mum by far. Elite sport is easy. That is the easy part as compared to.
Being a mum.
Best, best job in the world, hardest and most mundane, resilient, twenty four o'clock that never ends, but worth every minute.
Definitely tell us about the kids.
I have eight year old twins, Jacob and Miller and Jack who will before next month. They are all they're three independent, completely different to each other kiddos, which keeps me on my toes. Jacob, who is one of the twins eight, was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder when he was two and a half, so we've been navigating that for the last six years or so. Sounds crazy saying that it's been six years, but I am raising three American children. They have American accents. They don't know the
Australian anthem, they know the American anthem. They Yeah, it's crazy, three little American kids over here.
That's so interesting, isn't it. I didn't think of that. I didn't think of that. And yeah, wow, and do they they just see themselves as American.
Yeah, yeah, I think the twins now, as they get older, they're starting to understand now the difference and oh, we are from Australia.
Jack of course has no idea, he's too young.
But yeah, starting to understand now that Australia is home, and especially in this last trip and in June we came home, so that was really nice to see family. But yeah, and I think they're only just starting to comprehend how far away Australia is as home, and also starting to understand the relationships that their friends have with their families here that have aunties, uncles, grandparents all around them that they visit weekends and do things with. And
that's not something that we have. So conversations that are starting to pop up in our house.
And I know Joe recently, well not well recently, recently went to Minnesota and you're still in Florida. How's that going?
It has been? We moved three times in three years. We were in Salt Lake City for eight years, then Joe got traded to Portland, then got signed with Milwaukee Bucks.
Moved to Milwaukee, and then we were.
There for ten months, and then he signed with Orlando, so we moved here to Orlando, have been here for twelve months, and honestly expected him to be signing here again a very last minute that like in the NBA, the business that it is, that changed and he had an opportunity to go to Minnesota. And before that had happened, we'd had the conversation that if he was going to be moving again, that it wasn't fair for the kids to be in four schools in four years. Three was
a lot and a lot on me as mum. So yes, he moved to Minnesota about a month and a half two months ago. Now, I think for the first month I was riding on the high of we're used to this, we've done this before, We're used to him being away and on the road. But I think I have also grossly underestimated the mental load that it has on me of not having a finish line. So this is not a five day road trip. This is not a ten day road trip in two days home into five days away. Again,
this is completely different. And Dad has his own house and lives in a different spot, and we have to try and work out times to get to him, and then when our weekends work that we could fly there. He's of course on the road in the West Coast, or you know, logistically.
It is a nightmare.
Even though it sounds really nice that we can fly between two cities and have two houses and give the kids snow and sunshine and all of that, but it's been incredibly difficult, probably more difficult than I thought it would be. But I think that's also on me and the super woman that I try to be for my family and the glue to keep us all together.
That I can't keep.
Juggling all of the balls all of the time, I don't think so navigating through some of that at the moment, and how I can get better support around me so that Renee doesn't burn out.
Yeah, I think the idea of some lifestyles is way better than the practical lived reality. You know, when you think husband's in the NBA, I'm living in Orlando. It's beautiful, it's Florida, it's it's you know, and while in some ways it's fucking amazing, but the experience is not always amazing, right.
I have thought that since day one, and I will be the first to say that before Joe had signed in the NBA, like I would look at the NBA and go wow, and this wag life that people I genuinely think people think we have this most luxurious, incredible sport lived life, and that it's quite a lonely existence, especially for the families, and then especially when you get to a point in the player's career like Joe has been where he's one of the veterans, and that they
are moving around a lot more. We actually were really lucky that we were in Salt Lake City for eight years with the role that Joe played, that's almost unheard of. So we were quite lucky to be able to entrench ourselves in a team and a community for that long. But it's definitely not the luxurious wag life that people.
Think it is.
It's quite lonely and logistically and mentally like incredibly tiring, not only on us, on Joe as well, And like I know they of course they get all of the bells and whistles and they get paid incredibly well to do what they do, So I'm not denying that for a second. We're very grateful and privileged in that aspect, but you know, eighty two games a year in all different states, all across the country. They work bloody hard too, and very, very tiring and exhausting in its own way.
So there's a lot to navigate in this lifestyle, and a lot to navigate without a village around us.
What happens when? What happens when the superstar you, it's just you. The kids are in bed, Joe's world away, it's just you and your thoughts and you and the shit hits the fan with you, like Kudie, who's your person? Who do you reach out to or what do you do like when you have, as we all do, when you have a bit of a moment or a meltdown, How do you navigate that?
Good question.
I don't allow myself to melt down that too often, if I'm being completely honest, But I do think if anyone's copying the brunt of that, that is Joe and I think that's actually been a good change in our relationship over the last couple of years.
Before then, I didn't used.
To unload to him because I didn't want to affect his performance or you know, have any marriage issues or whatever. How deep we get down that way, I think I have really good people around me, not a whole lot of people that understand this lifestyle, which I think is difficult. But my brother is a really good support system for me. I have a younger brother and a younger sister, but Tom, he too has three young kids, just like I do, and is just a good sounding board for me in
that way. And I also have one of my really good friends in Salt Lakes, sity Emma, who I call on quite a lot and she usually gets like the mom side of the meltdowns. But I think your own mum's always on speed dollars as well. But I try not to call my own mum because I know that she'll worry too much about me as well. But I have my people, definitely help my people, But Joe is probably my biggest sounding board there.
How has your mindset, thinking, feeling, operating system around managing your body changed. Obviously you're not training like an elite athlete, and you're not an elite athlete anymore, but you're still in I mean, you look like you could play right now. You look fucking amazing. How has that changed? Because I know a lot of most athletes that I've worked with have let's just say interesting relationships with their body and
with food and with exercise. How does that go now that you're a thirty eight year old mum of three.
I think I'm in the period of finding that the most difficult that I ever have. I think because I used to get paid to be fit.
It was easy.
That part of my job was being as fit as I could humanly be and put all of that time and energy into my body, and I needed.
My body to perform.
My body doesn't need to perform in the same way as that it used to as an athlete. But I think now more my focus is on long term. I think about you know, I think about me compared to my parents, and we have had kids quite a lot later than what my parents' generation do, And I think about my kids and if that gets later again, well, I want to be a grandparent that's around, that can look after my grandkids and play on the grass.
And kick a football and do all of that stuff.
So a lot of my focus now, i'd say is long term rene rather than now. However, I would say that I sit in the hardest part now when it comes to body and meat and self esteem, because I'm obviously not as lean as what I used to be as an athlete.
I don't need to be.
I also don't have the time or energy to put in as many hours and effort into all of that stuff as I do.
It's just craziness.
And I just you know, I'm thirty eight as well, so I don't think the intensity that I used to put my body through would do the same as what it did five ten years ago. Do I believe that if I worked hard enough that I could get out on the court and smash it and play again. Yes, but there is nothing to gain from that other than honestly filling the external pat on the back achievement.
A little bit. Again, I would say.
My relationship with my body over my entire career has been pretty consistent in that a lot of how I performed and how I felt about myself was connected to how I felt physically about myself. You may or may not remember this, but when I was seventeen, I was sat down by coach Lisa Alexander. I can put myself on the chair at the Courts where I was told that I looked great for an average person, but was carrying too much weight for an athlete and of course, as a seventeen year.
Old girl, what I heard is your fat.
So I think since that day, I was like, right, I'm always from this day going to be the leanest, the fittest. I'll never have that red mark against me, and I think I came pretty close to achieving that. However, I think in terms of, you know, I don't need to look fit, or tend or any of those things in a dress anymore. But that doesn't mean to say that I don't look in the mirror still and go, oh, but maybe if I just smashed myself for another couple
of weeks or go back to these old habits. Of my vice was exercise, So I wouldn't say I had an unhealthy relationship with food in that I would restrict calories and stuff, but not enough to affect my performance, but enough that I would feel and look and new enough and even in the degrees that I did what I needed to do to fuel my body to stay and look the part, but also offorn with that as well.
And I think coming out for retirement, coming into retirement and not training the way you always used to train, of course you're going to look and feel different. And then another layer that you didn't ask for, is that you come into this NBA wag life and I don't look like your average wag, right, Like I don't wear a lot of makeup. I don't have the big, beautiful curly hair over here in America.
I'm not a tiny little whippet.
I'm like an ex athlete, right, I've got muscles, i still work out.
I'm like a taller, bigger girl.
And that is quite hard from a self esteem perspective as well, when you're mixing with all of these beautiful, social media perfect girls when it's not me.
Ah, that makes me laugh, But I get it. I get it.
It just like yeah, and then you do you laugh at yourself, and then I go, well, I truly don't have the time or energy to do that anyway.
Like even if I could, I could have my whole team.
Of all of that, and I could dress in the labels and the fashion, but it's just not me. I'm like Deans and sneakers and Joe's teamhood because that's all I could throw on after getting the kids to bed and rushing to a game. So I think too, Like, obviously, given my age now and I've got three kids and Joe's been in the league for as long as he has. I don't care about that stuff as much as I did year one. But of course that I'm a woman think about Oh, I do.
You know what, but I don't. Just yeah, firstly, I totally understand. But even you know, I'm a sixty one year old bug an idiot, and I still care what I look like. You know, It's like anyone who goes, ah, it's only about health and performance and function. For me, I'm like, I call bullshit. Ye, everyone everyone cares a little bit what they look like. That doesn't mean you've got to be vain or conceited or egotistical. But I
don't know. Maybe they exist, but I don't know that I've ever met anyone who absolutely doesn't care at all. I'm not saying that needs to be the focus or the priority, but I'm like, well, you know I want to be My priority is definitely health, wellness, you know, function, performance, fitness, definitely, But also I don't want to look you know, I want to look as good as I can look for what I've got to work with. I think that's healthy and normal, and I think anyone who says that that's
irrelevant is a fucking is a big fucking fibber. Hey, so you guys, I think he just turned thirty seven, like just last month or something. Yeah, so he's on the home straight of his career. He's probably not going to play till he's fifty. So whether or not that's another year or two or three, who knows when that's done. Are you going to stay there? Are you going to come to Australia or you're not sure? Or are you going to what are you? What are you going to do?
This for us has changed over the last couple of years. I think we've always said the day that Joe retired, we're on the first plane back to Australia to be in Melbourne with family and friends and all of that stuff.
We have house and stuff in Melbourne.
Navigating the school system for my son who is autistic has been incredibly difficult, and with the changes and Australia at the moment when it comes to autism and special needs and even neurodiversity in schools is quite far behind compared to over here in the States. Anyway, we'd still plan to come back until we landed in Orlando and the three kids in the schools that they are in.
This is another logistical nightmare. Craigar I have three kids in three different schools and no husband here to help, so it's a nightmare. But they're all really happy and thriving. But Jacob is in a school that he is He goes to school really happy, he comes home really engaged, and is just a different kid, which is part of the reason why we didn't move to Minnesota as well.
But seeing him thrive and be happy in school makes it incredibly difficult for us to say, yep, we're on the first flight back home, because I don't I think for him it would be a step backwards in his education and the resources that he has around him. Then and then we'd also say that we landed in Florida and this was just like this La La land for us. I was like, I know, Disney's there, I don't know much else about it. Well, first winter here in Florida,
it was just beautiful. We absolutely loved it here. So we went, oh my gosh, we've been over here in the league for ten years and we've done nothing. Let's get our green cards. So we got our green cards, so that now at least we have the option I Joe says that whenever he retires, whenever that is however many years A way that is that he just wants to sit on the couch and not do anything for twelve months, and I think that'll last a month of being like stay at home.
Down and trying to kids.
So I agree.
He'll go into like coaching or something like that, a role with a team or front office or something like that, I think pretty quickly, which may keep us over here as well. I think we're just keeping our options open of what that can look like at the moment. But definitely a hard decision to make when it comes to Jacob and his schooling because it's just so important that he is the happiest version of him, and we've found that place for right now.
Well that makes total sense. I mean I think it would almost be, you know, at this point in time, would be kind of unfair and a little bit mean to drag him out of that thing where he fits in well, you know where where you know just what you said, like he goes to school happy and he comes home happy or whatever you said. You know, I mean that's but for kids with those kinds of challenges, that's not always. In fact, that's often not the case. So you don't want to let that go in a hurry, right.
That's exactly right. It's like what we talked about at the start of this call, though. I think with everything good, there is a cost, and that for us is that we are a long way away from family and missing our nieces grow up, and my parents aren't getting any younger. I'm obviously now stepping back into bits and pieces of where I can in my career and fitting that in with the flexible remote stuff that I can.
But I mean, obviously i'd.
Love to be working in sport in Australia, and you know, I missing netball a lot and that environment, and I'm navigating that however I can. But yeah, there's a cost where there is also a reward. But what we will never ever regret in the future is picking the best place where the three of our kids are the happiest and thriving, and for right now, that's in Orlando.
Before we wind up, tell us about you and I have spoken a little bit about the work that you're just starting to do and the business that you're developing, because you are very entrepreneurial and creative as well, what's the stuff that you're starting to do and want to do more of in the high performance landscape, whether or not it's in corporate or with athletes, or tell us about the work that you're creating and building.
Yeah, I'm about four to six weeks away from launching a new business and I can't give you the name and all of that softest yet or my there'll we fire coming out of my team's ears.
But what I can say is what it's.
Not called the You project? Is it?
It's not.
I promise I'd love to take that from you. Know, I'd actually love to do that with you. I think
you're on a good thing, Grego. But no, it's an opportunity I think to get people to disconnect from the digital space and the world that we live in now and reconnect and collaborate with other like minded and even disagreeable people to reconnect again, in particular to start with women in a way, I think we're just getting a little bit lost as to who we are in this world and around What I touched on earlier.
Actually is we're all better off.
With connections and relationships and helping one another in those relationships. So hoping to just connect people again to each other so that we can all get a better quality of life and better performance out of ourselves in all realms of our lives. So I'm really excited to come into that space and obviously use you as a mentor, Cragio
and pick your brain around aspects of that. But it's funny that you said that I'm entrepreneurial and creative, because I feel like I've spent my whole life feeling like I'm not creative and that I was going to go into like a job with one title, and that's what I thought that I was working towards with all of my study and all of that stuff, and life after netball,
it's just gone in such a different way. But it's keeping it fun and exciting and just trying to, i guess, make an impact as I can while I can when I've got young kids and living in a different country and making the best of it and having fun with it. So it's actually it's been really nice reconnecting with you over the last four to six weeks.
It really has. It's fun. There was actually one thing that I want to ask you about.
Actually I'm ready.
I have just been thinking about it because, as you know, I've been listening to a lot of your podcasts, and on nearly every single one of them, you say that you get the feedback from people that you're intimidating, And I think about seventeen year old Rena would have called you intimidating, whereas thirty eight year old Rena doesn't think
you're intimidating. I actually think you're a big, soft, cuddly teddy bear that throws out some big swear words sometimes and acts tougher than what you really are in the interior. But I just about the people that are telling you that you're intimidating. Are you intimidating or are they intimidated.
It's interesting because, like feeling intimidated or feeling any way about any personal around any person is an individual response. So I might have five people in front of me, and one person's intimidated, and one person's curious, and one person's excited and whatever. Right, So we have these five different kind of internal realities going on around this one external stimulus, Craig Harper, and so intimidation around me is an individual response. It's not a universal response, Otherwise I
wouldn't be able to navigate life. But it is a good question because you know, look, even if and I had to realize this that but Craig, even if one in every twenty people says you're intimidating, and it was probably more than that at a time, was probably not in five or ten, I don't know. And even if I did not want to be timidating intimidating, which I didn't, And yeah, I am a fucking softy. I'm I love people, I want to help people and serve people, and I'm intense.
I'm intense and I'm passionate. But never in a million years has it been on my goal is to be intimidating. But I think it's a little bit of both intimidating.
I think That's where I'm coming from, is that I don't think you are intimidating. I think I think that people find it intimidating that you come across as very self assured.
Probably look and I mean, but also look, I think what I think. I say, this is what I think, but I could be wrong. Who says that? And I go by the way, I get more things wrong than right, you know, And that's like the thing is being in a position like I am, which not that I'm anybody special, but where I have thousands of people every day listen to what I say for me, It's an absolute privilege and an honor right. But I also want to be the real, raw, honest me, not the fucking the Craig Show.
And I can do. Hey, everybody, welcome back to the You Projector's harps. Today we're chatting with Renee. Yeah, come at you live from Florida. It's five pass Yeah, coming up. I can do the bullshit because I did twenty years of radio and even then it wasn't bullshit. But people don't, you know. I just have to accept that some people will be inspired by me, some people will think I'm a fucking idiot, some people will be a bit intimidated. I try to move through life with an awareness bigger
than me. You know, theory of mind that I've spoken to you about, understanding how other people think and see. But if I am constantly overthinking, am I am I? Does this person like me? Am I scaring the shit out of them? Am I intimidating? How do they feel about me? And if I'm constantly doing that, then I'm not being present? So I'm well aware that, you know, the only person who sees me like me is me, and I'm well aware that my version of me is
no one else's. You know. When I was at UNI first time, a guy called doctor Paul Callery, who played footy for Richmond and Saint Kilda. He was ahead of head of school for me, and he said to me, he said, if you never want yeah, if you never want to offend anyone, he said, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing, and stand for nothing. And I always remembered it. He's like, because some people, you know, like, I know,
sometimes I'm a lot. I'm a lot. But at least with me, you know where you stand, you know, and I you know. But yeah, thanks for the question. I try not to be but it is an interesting thing. And I find just an add on to that question. And this chat is when people say you make me feel like this, I go, Am I in charge of your feelings? Now? Am I in charge of your Oh? Wow? Wow? I'm somehow in charge of your No, I don't make
you feel like that. You feel like that, because if I was in charge of how everyone feels, I'd make everyone feel happy. You know, Hey, it's been really nice. We should do it again, and I'm looking forward to coming to the States in twenty twenty five. I don't know what that's going to look like, but you and I am maybe going to do a one day or a two days something. They'll go, who the fuck is that old preck over there next to that young hot elite athlete. But anyway, we'll figure something out.
We'll have some fun persently.
We definitely will. Hey, if people want to find you, connect with you, you know, learn a little bit more about you. How to they do that?
You can just find me on Instagram at Renee angles or renee angles dot com is my website as well.
But yeah, usually Instagram is probably.
The place, the easiest place in this landscape, isn't it. It's what people do these days, young people.
I think it is. I think it is. Or just send a pigeon with a bloody message in its beak. Hey, I will say goodbye fair, but for now, Nay, thank you so much, love your guts, You're amazing. Congrats on everything you're doing. You're an inspiration and you are a creative You know what are creative because apart from other things, you're always solving problems and that's a creative process.
I appreciate that. Thank you. It's been good.