I'll get a team. It's Harps. Who else would it be? It's Bloody, It's me, s Tiffany and Cook. It's Samantha Wills and it's another episode of you Project. I'm just checking. I'm just NELLI. You know tip when you do something and you think is it Wills or Willis? But I did not have my glasses on because I'm an old I'm an old dickhead. Uh, it's Wills. It's definitely Samantha Wills. But before we get to Samantha, talk to and Cook. The life force of the show, the engine room, the brains,
Samantha said. Samantha said, the brains, and I am a beauty now she said that, not even me, I tiff.
It's a worry, isn't it if I'm the brains of the organization.
Oh dear, you're right, You're not a dummy. You're not a dummy.
You have spent the last decade getting my head punched in for fun.
So well, that's well. You're probably not quite as smart as you were before you started doing boxing for a living and punching women in the face in a boxing ring. You probably should thought that through. Have you ever punched anyone Samantha in anger or in fun.
Not like punch Buggy in the Returns is about as as violent as I've gotten.
Yeah, have you ever done have you ever done any boxing training?
You have done a bit of boxing training.
Well, if you ever in Melbourne, we might have to put you in tip in the ring and we see what happens.
Oh, that escalated very quickly.
That did escalate very quickly. Hey, welcome to the You project. How are you?
I'm good, Thank you for having me.
On man, thanks for being had. Where do we find? Know where you are? But tell our listeners where you are right now and what that place is to you.
It's i mean beautiful downtown Port mcquarie, my hometown. So I've just come back. I've been five months in Bali. I've been kind of setting around doing the nomadic digital nomad life.
So back in Port McQuary for the minute.
What's your favorite other than Australia, which of course is the hands down winner. Of course we know that obviously, But if you had to, if you had to live somewhere else for let's say two years, and the US is not an option, so no US, No Australia. If you had to live somewhere else and you needed to start next week, where would it be for two years?
You know, I've just spent three months in Mexico City and I absolutely loved it. It was I think the word vibrant is overused when you're explaining trouble, but it was a city where.
I got the word vibrant like. It was the creative scene there, the food scene. It was awesome. So Mexico City would be my reco It's funny.
I would not have picked that, but you are not the first person. I wouldn't have picked it a year ago, but now I would be more inclined. But I reckon half a dozen people have told me that in the last year. Really Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never been. I've been to the States a bunch of times, but I've never been to Mexico. Tiff, have you been to Mexico?
I have not. Yeah.
I find it both intriguing and terrifying. Yeah, well, I just because until I don't know how it is. But for a very long time it had one of the highest crime rates in the world, so I don't know where that sits now. But at the same time, the only Mexican people that I've met have been beautiful and amazing. So my interactions and experiences have been all positive. So I might have to I might have to put that on my to do list at some stage. What were you doing in Bali?
Just writing my next book, so we're kind of I had a place in New York for many years and then was like, let's just do a bit of a nomad trip. So I did three months in Basico City, three months in Argentina, and then have just done five months in Bali. So it's been here and everywhere.
Yeah, yeah, what's the what's the place that you went to? I don't want to throw you under the bus, but you know, just for you, wasn't somewhere that you might hurry back to.
That's actually really easy, And I don't want to be mean to Argentina. But I did not like Juemos Aires. It was it felt very quiet. I thought it would be much more happening there, but I didn't. I didn't love it as much as I hoped I would love it.
But the people were lovely, but I didn't love the city that much.
I'm going to ask you a curly question straight up, Samantha. So my PhD is in a thing called metaperception, which is essentially your ability to understand the Samantha experience for other people for other people. So what do you think and this is not a loaded question, this is a curious question. What do you think the Samantha experiences like for others? And that's not to be confused with do
you think they like you? But what do you think the Samantha experience is for you know, friends, strangers, colleagues, family.
That is such an interesting question.
I hope that it is, you know, I I really hope that I lift other people up to see their creative potential.
I very much hope that I'm a.
Reflection of not just what they're doing, but the potential of what their ideas and what their vision can can possibly be. And I think a lot of you know, I work a lot one on one with people doing brand mentoring or personal brand mentoring, and it's I just I feel like I can see in others so much goodness and possibility, and I hope I think they walk away being like, Wow, I never saw that about myself.
So that's what I think the smout of experience.
I hope that's yeah, yeah, perfect it's a real skill, and most people are not great that kind of trying to understand because the only person in the world, you know, same with me, and that's literally my research. But the only person in the world who sees me like me is me. And so you know, when you think about right now, there's you, me and Tiff in this moment, in this conversation, but no one's having the same experience,
right of course. And so yeah, trying to And you know, you're a creative and you're a writer, and you're a coach, and like, part of how good you will be is about your capacity to understand what others want to read or what others you know, what will inspire other people, what will connect with other people? You know, what kind of book can I create that they won't want to put it down?
You know?
So that's that's a real skill to have insight into what others need and want, you know.
No, definitely, like what is your experience when you put your the cre experience?
What is that?
So I mean, I've got pretty good insight because I've been doing this a long time, but I know that, you know, like I've done nearly seventeen hundred of these I worked in radio for a long time, so I've heard a lot of my own my own voice. I fucking hate my voice, right right. I think I sound shit and other people go, oh, you've got a really good voice for radio or whatever, Like I sound like a fucking idiot. But I realize that's just me. But I know that I can be intimidating. I don't try
to be intimidating. It's the last thing I want to be. I try to be. I mean, the problem with trying to be what you think people want is the you end up not being you, and now you're not a person. You're a persona right, So you know, my values are connection, My values are service and love and kindness, and that sounds cheesy, but it's true. So I try to be a living version of all of that. And sometimes I fuck it up because I've got a big ego and I'm a dickhead, and I'm insecure and all of those
human things. But you know it's I spend my life talking on stages because I'm a professional speaker, but also talking on podcasts, and so for me, it really matters that I at the very least have an insight into the Craig experience, because if I can't understand what it's like being around me, then I really I really can't
create connection or rapport, trust or respect. And so you know, whether or not it's in a writing capacity or a speaking communication paradigm, being able to understand the Samantha experience for the world is it's like an interpersonal superpower. Yeah, I didn't think we'd go there straight up, but thank you for asking me.
Right we're on.
Yeah, No, it's interesting, and I think, you know, and I guess that follow up question from that, And I asked this myself sometimes, like how do people leave you, like when they walk away from you? How how do they feel? What's what's in the fingerprints that we leave, you know, on their soul? And I guess, you know, you can't control what that is. But I think that by osmosis should come across and I hope that people leave me inspired to do their own creative journey.
I guess, yeah, yeah. Do you think that it's funny because my background is in or studies in my first degree was in science, my PhDs in science, But I feel like I'm actually more of a creative than a scientist, right, you know, having written books and having just a whole bunch of shit that I won't bore you with, but I'm pretty good at creating something in my head and then turning that into a real thing in the world, a tangible thing. And that's a creative process, you know.
And even science in a way as a creative process, because you've got to come up with an idea, a theory, a hypothesis, and then figure out how am I going to test that?
Right?
So that's a that's a problem solving creative kind of a journey in itself.
You know.
One of the most interesting elements is when science and creativity come together because science is so formulive, you know, the formula base, but then putting either your own spin on it, putting it through the language that resonates with your audience. Like, I think, there's a real beauty when science and creativity overlap.
And that's really interesting.
Yeah, for sure. So you've written, we'll get into your book. You've written a new book which I'm excited to talk to you about. And I've written I've written two books for kids and some grown up books as well. Now, just quickly, before we do a deep dive into the book. Was this your first time? I think was your first time writing a kid's book? Yeah?
Yeah, I've written a memoir and this is my first kid's book.
Okay, So tell me about what you had to learn and unlearn writing for you know, a completely different audience.
Well, I'm an only child, so I didn't grow up around a lot of young kids. I don't have kids myself, so I had to learn pretty much everything.
But really what I did was I went back.
To what would I have wanted when I was a kid, and that was kind of my starting point. And you know, as a creative kid growing up, I really wanted, you know, and growing up in the nineties in small town Australia, there wasn't this window into the world of the internet
and what was possible. So for me, I kind of saw, you know, hard working people and in my mind, smart people went on to you know, get go to university, get a degree, be lawyers, doctors, engineers, and then people like me got jobs and then did their creativity as a hobby. So I was like, you know, if I could say to my little self, no, you can go out there and be creative for your career. You can build a life base around creativity because I just didn't
see that as an option growing up. So that was kind of my starting point for this book to say to kids, hey, your creativity is valuable, your ideas matter, and there is this avenue for you should you wish to if you don't feel smart at school, which I didn't. You know, the message in this book is you can't score smart without art. So that was kind of my starting point to get that message.
You So tell me about that. Tell me about being at school and not feeling smart.
What was that Like?
I just it was a bit numbing, to be honest, Like I was like, I wasn't like, oh, I know, if I try harder, i'll get there. I just don't think my brain worked in the way that academic kids' brains work. And so when the teachers, you know, in the marks or in the class, if you're in the top ten percent of the class, it's usually based on academics.
So, you know, I was.
Doing really well in creativity and art and kind of all these creative subjects, but I.
Just didn't feel smart.
And I think as a kid, when you take that feeling into adulthood, it dresses itself up as imposter syndrome.
So it kind of grows with you, it just changes.
Outits And so even you know, in the outward facing by all accounts success I've had in my career today, it was still filled with imposter syndrome. And you know, it's kind of this whisper of you know, this is just a fluke, This is just borrow time you succeeding here, Like you know, people will realize you're not that smart, So it definitely masquerades.
Yeah, I think that that imposter syndrome, self doubt, overthinking, fucking self sabotage. We swear on this show, by the way, good yeah, so feel free. I'll open their fuck door for you.
I don't need to die.
Yeah, good good. But that's I think that's everyone. You know. It's like I've been doing a version of this forever and I talk to you about one hundred or more audiences a year live, and I still get up there and think, yeah, this is the day you're going to fuck it up, because like you you know, it's like, Craig, you've done really well. You've been honestly, you've been pretty lucky, right, You've had some really generous audiences. You're not that good.
You're not that good, and you know that I don't think that really. I mean, I guess for some people it goes away. And this is going to sound weird, Samantha, But for me, a bit of self doubt and a bit of imposter syndrome is good for me, not overwhelming, paralyzing fear. But it keeps me humble and I never really take it. It keeps me humble in that I don't take it for granted, and I don't think I'm great, and the fact that I don't think I'm great makes me work harder than if I thought I was great.
You know, that's just me.
Yeah, that's an interesting and I think if you can make imposter syndrome and fear work for you, and that's how you make it work for you. For me, I'm like, I'm not even going to exert my energy trying to overcome it.
I'm just going to be like, hey, I see you, I acknowledge you.
I'm just going to step to the side and do this speaking gig, do write this book, do whatever it is.
I'll come back to you in a sec. And I find acknowledging it rather than trying to.
Overcome it for me, just silences it for enough time for me to do the thing and be like, oh hey, old pal, well that together again.
So it is a bit of a cycle. But to your point, I think.
Everyone deals with it in a way that finding how it works for you.
I think is the trick.
Yes, And I think also what you're speaking about, I say kind of the same thing in a different way, which is I know that my self doubt, which is a fear based thing today, you'll fuck it up, You're not good enough, they won't like you. That's all fear. That's emotion, right, it's all fear. So but but I have data, I have evidence. I have a track record that said as well, Craig, you know you can do this because you've done this a lot and this company is paying you to come back, so you can't do
that shit. So I think there's this paradigm, there's this place, Samantha where the self doubt and the fear and that all that bullshit can coexist with the knowledge I can actually do it, you know.
So I don't know that does your self fither come from?
Like do you have a degree in what you're going to talk about?
Like did someone externally validate you and be like, Okay, you pass the test, here's your certificate. Because I feel like my self data that I never went to university. I'm completely self taught. So I'm like, I don't know, adult gave me the permission slip, and you know there's I have this thing room like you've got to sign your own permission slip. But I'm always like and I'm just waiting for the adult to come in. I'm like, no, no, you're the adult in the room, like you need to
get this together. So, yes, that was my question. Is your self doubt based on something that someone else has validated for you?
That's so clever, that's so good. I want to speak to your lack of degree in the moment because I have some advice that you may or may not want. Right, Okay, if I start coaching TIF, just tell me to shout the fuck up.
Right, s me an invoice? So coaching session, no, not at all, not at all.
So my self doubt probably is without trying to sound weird or deep like, it's not. It's just it's like a small voice, right, It's not this overwhelming scream and it doesn't paralyze me. But I mean, you know, at the risk of boring my audience. So I was like a pretty mediocre kid. I was morbidly obese in school and all this stuff, right, pick last for teams. Not a great academic, not a brilliant creative, not like literally not amazing at anything, like so fucking average it pretty
much everything. And I think for me, because I knew that I wasn't brilliant, I'm still not still know that, still okay with that, right, But I knew that I knew that I wasn't outstanding in anything. But so that kind of lingers a bit that I think. But it's almost just like, I don't know, it's like you had something cut off when you were fourteen, off your forearm or something, and the scar is still there and the thing, the thing's not there anymore, but the scar is and
you're aware of it. Right, So it's almost for me like a psychological, sociological and or emotional scar that I have a bit of an awareness of, but it doesn't fuck me over. But just quickly back to you. I was talking to a lady yesterday. Her name is I can't pronounce her surname well, but it Sarah Rushbatch. Is that her name, Tiff, you know, the Gray Area drinking lady.
Yeah, yep, yeah.
So I was talking to her, and I don't think she'd mind me talking about this. So she specializes this. You're going to go, what the fuck is he talking about. I'll come back to you, right. She specializes in this area called Gray Area drinking, where you know, people they're
not our coolics, but they're problem drinkers. So they might not drink for four or five days, which is not typical of an alcoholic, but then they'll get devastated every weekend and then they're no good till Tuesday, but they'll
only drink two days and all of that. And she started to work with companies and you know, she started to go in this space and she's like, I feel in some ways unqualified to talk about mind stuff, for brain stuff, for psychology or human behavior because i'm you know, and I said, well, here's the thing, and this is and I've said this to Tiff, because TIFF's also a corporate speaker and coaches people, and you know, I say,
you're not one. You're not pretending to be an expert in human behavior and you're not claiming to be too you're not pretending you're a psychologist. Right, It's like, you don't need to be a dietitian to tell someone that McDonald's is probably not your best choice. You don't need to be a fucking genius to go, hey, Coco pops are probably not optimal nutrition for Brecky. Right. You don't need a degree, and neither do you need a degree
to go, Hey, everyone, I'm Samantha. This is what I've learned, this is these are my experiences, this is my journey, this is what worked for me, this is what I've come to understand, this is what I think and believe, and these are the reasons why I'm going to share with you my philosophy, my ideas, my experiences, and then you take out of that what you think is relevant and if you want, apply it. Right.
But I think that's even your voice changed in how you're saying that, Like, I think it's very different to be like, here's my experience, my lived experience, rather than here's some hard data or you know, McDonald's dad, or
whatever the hard data is. And I think that's a really empowering lens to approach it with you, like, this is my experience this is my lived experience, and I want to share up with you rather than I'm an expert on this topic and let me tell you why I'm right and you're wrong.
So absolutely, yes.
Yeah, yeah, And you know, like even the experts, it's like I would people might call me an expert in terms of exercise science because that's been my background. I'm an exercise scientist and blah blah blah, and I've done a lot in this field. But even when I prescribe someone a program, for example, it's still an educated guess.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I still don't know what the fucking outcome is going to be because everybody's body responds individually, like everyone's physiology is different, just like everybody's brain is different. Nobody's got the same mind as anyone else, you know.
But in your.
Case, you're like, here's the data that I have to back up what I think is going to happen. So it's I totally understand it and agree with what you're saying. And I think in any any time you're speaking, though, whether you're giving advice, whether you're just telling your story, it's a place of vulnerability and you have to arrive at with a place of vulnerability.
Otherwise it's just arrogance.
And I think, and to your point before, like, if you're not feeling a bit uneasy when you've been vulnerable, you're probably not doing it right.
Yes, definitely, But I also think I agree with you. But when you are in front of an audience and you you kind of have this vibe of hey, everyone, by the way, I'm not a guru, just letting you know, not a guru, not an expert. I'm just going to share my journey and story. Some of you will resonate,
some of you won't. That's cool, you know. And I think like the data that you have, the evidence that you have, the science in inverted commas, that you have your results, like everything that you've been doing until now in your business, with your creative journey, with your books, with your writing, with your business development, with your online with your offline. You could call all of that research.
You could call that the Samantha project and equals one like you're the you know, it's you in the middle of this experiment, and so people can't argue with your own research or your own outcomes, and you're not telling people what to do.
Do you know what I mean, no, definitely, And I think that's that's the realization that I think through the journey you get to you you're like, Okay, the way that I explain things, or my methodology or my you know, however I look through that lens. That's why people resonate with you. And then someone could be saying a very similar experience but explain it a different way, and that's
that's how people resonate with them. So that's you know, when I say about the imposter syndrome, it's probably more beer based around you're just not good enough, not so much, you.
Haven't done the time, you don't know what you're doing.
So it's that continual dance with it, which to your point, I think sometimes that you know, and the retaliator in me is like, well, I'll show you imposter syndrome.
So in a way I do make it work.
So yeah, it comes around. So everyone, well not everyone, but a lot of people that I have on who've written a book. Actually someone who's recently published Congratulations. By the way, as we record this, it's the thirtieth of October. This will be up in the next day or two. Samantha's new book got released yesterday the twenty ninth Am I correct in saying.
That that is correct. Yep.
And the book is called Marigold's Magic Stars. Before we talk specifically about the book, I want to know about your writing process. Is it instinctive? Intuitive? Is it learned as have you? How do you do it? Like? What's your protocol? Yeah?
Well, I mean obviously very different from this kid's book versus the memoir. The memoir I found quite difficult. I think going back to, you know, the darkest, most vulnerable parts of your life, revisiting them, pulling them out and putting them on a page to be consumed, you know, within a chapter. Definitely was a longer and more arduous process. But you know, it metaphorically felt lighter with every page that I wrote to get it, to get it out
and onto the page. This spook actually Marigo's Magic says. I wrote it in one of the lockdowns, and it's been that long in process to get it out here today. But it actually arrived to me almost fully formed. And I talk about creativity like this kind of bubbles that are always floating around us and just waiting. You know, Elizabeth Gilbert talks about there trying to find a human collaborator. And I just feel like Marigo kind of landed on me one day and it was a middle beginning end
and I sat down at my desk. I didn't get up to you know, check the fridge, I didn't get up to p and I was like, this needs to come out as it's coming into my mind and wrote kind of the first draft in one sit down go.
And felt it felt like a story that needed to be told.
But it's you know, that feels like an idyllic case as a writer, because most writers, myself included, love having written.
But hate writing.
So it definitely felt like a unique story that downloaded to me.
So it's been three years in.
The making though from that point, but I'm excited to have her out there.
And it's like I think sometimes with creatives, it's like that you know, Marigold was there, you just needed to get her out. It's like, you know, just percolating away. I think tip was it Michaelangelo that sculpted the David and Bob Bobby always talks about when somebody asked Michelangelo how we sculpted the David, which is arguably the most famous sculpture in the history of art. He said, Well,
the David was always there. I just needed to I just needed to get all the bits, the non David bits, out of the way.
Yeah.
And I think that's the most powerful way to look at creativity and not just as you know paint and pottery.
Will's creativity like. Creativity is life like.
What we're what we're destined to do is there if we are brave enough to take inspired action to meet it, if we're brave enough to take the feared and remove you know, the unknown and walk towards it, it's there waiting for us. But I just don't think, you know, that's a lot easier said than done. But it's very similar to be our process.
Hey, I don't know if you heard about this tip. I don't know if we've spoken about this either. We might have, But so recently, do you know who banks he is, Samantha, I do, yes, yeah, so tif do you know this Banksy story that was circulating recently? Yeah, yeah, So Banksy gave this this man I think it was eight original Banksy Samantha and to go to a market in New York. I don't know this story here.
It's brilliant and.
So for our listeners. So he went to this stall he set up, and I think there was like eight or ten. So a banks is worth whatever one hundred and two hundred US thousand dollars that he does in fucking twelve minutes. And then you know, But it was funny because then it had on the stall, it had original Bankses and they were like sixty or eighty bucks and they didn't even sell. I think they sold four or five of them or something, but not all of them,
and people were haggling. People wanted it for forty, not sixty. But it's funny, how like, I'm fascinated. I don't know, we're digressing, but we'll come back. I'm fascinated with the psychology of value related to art. It's like because if you think, like, let's say I drew something that was identical to a Banksy and everyone thought Banksy did it, what's worth two hundergrand? But if it's the exact same thing,
I mean, identical, same canvas, same paint, same everything. But fred Smith did it or Craig Harber did, it's worth a dollar thirty five? You know what do you think about that? The psychology and the value are I.
Mean, it makes absolutely no sense. I appreciate it. I think art is valuable. I think artists should be paid at top dollar. But to your point, like it makes no sense when you do it that it's a very fickle world to live and revolve in that said having and more so now in the same age when digital is so easy to replicate, all things are so easy to imitate.
So I don't know, I'm not throwing my.
Money at art, but I do appreciate the process and I admire it from a distance. In that echelon of when we're talking about that type of money in art, you.
Think about think about the psychology of money and value and perceived value. It's like, there are I was going to do a gig. I was booked to do an event with Now this might what I'm telling you is true, but the number might be flawed. But I was booked to do an event about a decade ago, and there was like five speakers, and one of the speakers was
Lance Armstrong. Now this is before the shit hit the fan with his right, But I was told he was being paid quarter of a million dollars for a forty five minute note, right, And I you know, let's just say I wasn't getting anywhere near that, obviously, but at the time I'm thinking what could somebody do? Like what could how on earth? And I was just so blunt. Even if it was fifty grand, which it wasn't. It
was way more than that. But even if it was fifty grand, right, And I looked, I look at that in the marketplace, and I think, you know, it's like people who would spend a million dollars on a car, or people who would spend Even where I live there's a whole lot of guys and a few girls. It's a very very cycling focused area.
Right.
So if you have a bike, if you're out on Beach Road near where I live, and your bike's not worth ten grand, you've got a shit bike, right, you know, it's like, who the fuck would want to spend ten or fifteen thousand dollars on a push? Well, a lot of people, you know.
It's interesting.
I think with the speaker one is interesting because that makes more sense to me because I'm like, if Lance Armstrong is going to draw a lot of people to spend money on ticketing, that makes more sense in the creative world to me. The bike thing, whether it's you know, an identity a visual statement, like same as what you choose to wear, things like that. But when you talk about art on a canvas, that's where I'm like, oh, that's that's a harder one to explain to me.
Yeah, yeah, all right, So give us the snapshot of Marigold. Tell us about or as much or as little as you want to tell us about them.
Yeah.
No, it's you know, it's an eighty page book, so children's literature, you know, I say it's in a children's format, but it very much is for any creative adult that feels like they've kind of drifted from their creativity. I think as kids, we are so innately in tune with
our intuition and our creativity. And in the book, Marigold's intuition is represented by stars, so when she's inspired, you know, they dance her hands and through our minds, and you know, she has this experience where she's kind of not everything's about creativity and get your head out of the cloud and stop daydreaming, which I think every creative person has been told.
And you know, you talk about the scar that you said has.
Healed over when you're fourteen, but the DNA is still there, And I think very much when we're told those things as kids, we hold on to them as truth. So, you know, if we're a creative kid and we're now a creative adult, but we've suppressed that creativity, it's going to kind of sit as a rub on us where we might not feel like we're doing what we're, you know, what we meant to be doing in this life. We're
doing what we've been told we should be doing. So that's what I hope the story resonates with people, bit kids, be it adults, that it's you know, we have been guided by our creativity to align with I say, our higher self and our higher purpose, and it's our responsibility to follow that. So I hope it encourages people to get back to their creativity and really follow that passion within.
And what kind of age group do you think, Samantha, Like, I mean, you said adults, but did you write it with an age group in mind? Particularly?
I wanted it to feel I would say the age group is about six to ten. It's a hardcover book that comes in a first edition collector's box, and I really wanted it to feel like, if you say it, you know a seven or eight year old. You can read the book entirely by yourself and it feels like you've read a grown up novel. I wanted them to feel that sense of achievement at the end of it. If it's a younger kid, you're probably reading it to
them over two or three nights. And we've collaborated with Emma Leonard was an incredible Victorian illustrator, and she has bought the world of Marigold to life so beautifully through these watercolor and digital illustrations, and it's an illustration on every page.
It's a beautiful art book as well.
And who did you, if anyone well other than the adults that read it to give you bloody you know, technical feedback or robmatic you know, did you test drive it on any kids?
I sent it to my god kids. I've got a few early readers that.
Read it and the most heartwarming feedback and when I knew I was on the right track with it, where they said, oh my gosh, Marigold is me.
I see myself in Marigold.
And I think with any type of storytelling that is the goal, right We want to see ourselves reflected back in a character and their experiences so all the early readers that have had it in the last week or so have said similar things, so it's very very encouraging.
That's amazing. Well, congratulations. Hey have you have you ever heard of a guy called sir Ken Robinson?
Of course, yes, yeah.
Do you remember did you see his Ted talk where he spoke about you know, do you remember this tip where sir Ken Robinson spoke about the young girl who couldn't focus in class and they thought she had some intellectual disability and blah blah blah, And the assessor came and said, oh, she's not she's not handicapped. She's an artist. She's a creative and of course her name was Gillian Lynn and she went on to choreograph Cats and some
of the best shows in the world. It's like, the really interesting thing about intelligence is that it's a spectrum. It's not a thing. It's lots of things, you know.
It is that I think for so long, I know myself growing up and I'm not sure what the school system is like now, but for so long it was greater just on one thing. So you kind of grow up not thinking that that you're that, and I think, you know, looking at what creative people have gone on to do that might not have had that encouragement as a kid. It's just wildly it's so intelligence all of its own, and it's quite mesmerizing.
Wow, yeah, I'm with you, and it's look, I think there on now you know they're you know, there's a bunch of different you know, Joseph Steiner and Jiff what's the other one, the other model of education. That's a lot of people, Monsorry, yeah, Monsouri. There's quite a lot of new kind of academic models coming out, and I
think also in mainstream schooling they're catching on. But I'm with you, Samantha, Like when I grew up and I'm fucking one hundred years older than you, but when I grew up, I was I mean, I wasn't a dummy, but yeah, you were all it was pretty much all about academic intelligence. And I think now we're starting to open the door and understand a little bit more broadly what that can mean. But hopefully meet kids where they're
at in terms of their unique intelligence and ability. Just quickly before we let you go, super good to meet you, by the way, Great chatty, what's your next book about?
I've got two kind of on the go. I she had got three on the go. I was in film.
School in New York a few years ago, and it was when Roe V. Wade was overturned, and I took it as inspiration to kind of plot out this dystopian world of what that might look like twenty years from now if that continues on.
So I'm working on that very dark and heavy material.
So it's my internet search history is quite grim on that one. And I've already worked on the second book of Marigold. And yeah, I just got a few little projects on the go, and I keep jumping between between them all because I feel, you know, creatively, when I'm kind of in a project and get writer's block, I
don't want to step away and stop being creative. I kind of want to just pivot or creative rulette I call it, and kind of move to the next project and allow the creativity to flow through that way.
So it still being creative, but just on a different channel.
Perfect. Now, what's this split between reading a hard copy book and listening to books? What are you? Are you all books or are you audible? Are you old?
I prefer old school.
I definitely prefer to have a book in my hands because I travel so much. I definitely am a kindle girl, but I do love an audiobook. If I'm on a road trip, I cometing to focus unless I'm in the car, but that's definitely an audiobook.
Time great, Now, before we let you go, what do you want to plug? Where do you want to tell our listeners to go and look at? Obviously? The book everyone is called Marigold's Magic Stars by Samantha Wills, illustrated by What's your Friend's Name? Emma Leonard.
Emma Leonard illustrated it, and it is available exclusively at briobooks dot com dot.
Au perfect perfect, Hey, well, we appreciate you. Congratulations the book. The book looks beautiful. I've got an e copy and I'm not just saying this everyone, it looks fucking amazing. So well done you, good for you, Good for you, and good luck. We'll say goodbye off air, but for the minute. God luck with the next books as well, good luck with this. I hope you sell a squillion and keep doing what you do because you're really good at it.
I appreciate that. Thank you so much.
Thanks Amantha,