I'll get to him. Welcome to another installing the U Project. Craig, Anthony Harp, Tiffany and Cook and doctor Gillespie up there in the bloody Sunshine State, just crushing it in the hammock, the jacuzzi by the pool he used to work. Allegedly he still does a little bit before we chat to him or so sail load to Cookie. Hello, tiff Maybe.
I could go up for a little long weekend in the Sunshine State. Have you got to spare him?
Gillespo Oh, Probably you wouldn't come to our Brisbane place. You probably come up with the coast. It's nicer up there.
All right, Well we'll go to his second home, to his second house. Yeah, how's that conversation with his missus going to go? So there's this young lady that does the podcast with Craig. It's all business, but she's going to be staying with us, and by us I mean me. So yeah, good luck sorting that out.
Yeah, now that you say that, Craig, I might have trouble selling it.
Yeah, you might have to recant that offer your honor. How have you been made?
Yeah? Pretty good? How are you?
Yeah? Very good? Very good? T If you made it back.
From the gym, shure did just in the nick of time.
You did some squats for the first time in a while. How long do you reckon it is since Gillespo's done any squats? And do you reckon he's ever done a set of Barbelle squats in his life?
I reckon he did some last Thursday. All right, I'll have you know.
I did one this morning because I have to. You know, we have the water bottles that you put on the cooler, and they weigh fifteen kilos and you have to pick them up and put them on top of the cooler.
So aren't you worried that those in competition.
Aren't you worried about the thallades from the plastic that hold your water.
I'm more worried about the fluoride that's added to the water in the town water up here, which is why for the last fifteen years I've been buying water that way.
So there is for those of us who for those who haven't heard us talk about this, I don't know if you and I have spoken about it, definitely not in detail, but yes, luride's kind of inversely correlated with IQ, isn't it? Cognitive function. Don't they reckon? It literally makes you dumber.
It can in serious quantities, I don't think anywhere in Australia. Most places in Australia probably haven't got the sorts of quantities that would do those sorts of things. The big problem for me with variety is feeding it to children. Its mechanism of operation is that it makes hard surfaces brittle, so like bones and things, which is how it works. On teeth. It gives them a harder outer surface. And
that's great when it's in your toothpaste. It's not so great when you're swallowing it because then it ends up
as part of your skeleton. And so my concern with six little kids is that when Brisbane to switch to fluoride in the water supply, I just didn't want my kids being ghost on this stuff with unknown potential consequences, so decided to switch to I looked at all the potential options, but the only way you can reliably get water that doesn't have it in is using that methodology where essentially it's evaporated and recondensed and so on and son you have to buy it because the home ones
use more energy than it's worth to do it.
Yeah, So for the bloke who's and we'll get to the topic at hand and we'll still be out in thirty minutes. That's how good we are. But the bloke who is still and was at that time a lawyer, I guess, and a programmer, all of that in the tech space, when there was there something that precipitated your curiosity around all things health, like did something happen or was that interest always there?
No, I didn't have any interest in it until I figured out that everything I'd been being told about why I was so fat was wrong, you know, it's it's that was the shock to me. I had zero interest in health that I thought all I had to do to be healthy was just listen to the authorities. They would they'd obviously done all the research, they knew all
the answers. You know, if they said fat made you fat, then I guess it did, and and that meant that I was perfectly okay eating ninety nine percent fat free marshmallows because you know, they were fat free. So it was quite a surprise to me to discover that that
was all nonsense and based on nothing. And when I saw that, I thought, well, how much of the rest of what I told his nonsense too, And so that's and when I started digging around and discovered the issues with seed oils and then fiber and various other things, I thought, Wow, almost everything we're told is nonsense when it comes to health, and the people who were putting the messages out are basically chunks. And I was really
surprised by that. And what I guess one of the turning points for me is I used to do a regular radio gig on radiop here in Brisbane with a talk show host after Sweet Poison came out, and he used to hear me say this kind of thing, and he used to always be keen to get someone from the authorities on the show to debate me about it, and he succeeded once in getting a cardiac surgeon representing the Hart Foundation, and we had an on air debate
where it became abundantly clear that this guy knew absolutely nothing about the science that even what he was supposed to be saying was based on, and let alone what I was saying. He couldn't even identify the different types of sugars or different types of lipids or any of that sort of thing. And I thought, Wow, this is the authority that is being bored as the person with all the answers and they don't even know the basics.
Yes, well, I think also on a slightly different level, but still similar, like people who who get exercise advice from doctors who have zero training and exercise programming, like they don't know. You know, they know that exercise is good, but so to plumbers. But you're not asking a plumber for a fucking exercise program.
Right well, I think if you talk to doctors and ask them to antswer, honestly, most of them would say, we're not taught anything about you know, exercise or nutrition or anything other than in the vaguest terms and basically the stuff that's regurgitated in dietetics textbooks, which also has no foundation in fact. And yet because they're medical, people think, oh I should get that advice from.
Them, exactly the amount of And this is not a slide on doctors because for what they are meant to do, you know, most of them are somewhere between pretty good and really good. But over the years, like when I trained lots of people, obviously thousands of people, and I trained I don't know, I trained at least twenty doctors as in had them as clients over the years, and nearly all of them asked me what they should be eating like, and some of them asked me what supplements
they should take, if any. And obviously I would preface that with well, I'm not a dietician and you know, but let's you know, so I would talk in general terms about what might be advantageous and not prescribe anything. But yeah, they're working. Knowledge of you know, nutrition and exercise, physiology, etc.
Is non existent, but that's not their job. But the general public think that, you know, they their knowledge covers everything, which obviously by their training and you know, their job describe well.
They're also not good at saying I don't know in my experience, you know, they're not good at when it goes outside their expertise, saying well, I don't know, maybe you should ask someone who's a specialist in that. What they do tend to do is give you off the cuff advice. That is the general stuff you here, you know, the stuff the Heart Foundation puts out or the Dietitians
Association puts out. You know, you know, eat healthy and what does that mean or that means everything in moderation, which is defined as whatever you want, and you know, eat lots of fiber and fruit and vegetables, and if you ask them why, they'll come up drive pretty quickly.
Yeah, you and I were chatting. I won't say the brand because I just don't want to, but you and I were chatting, and I sent you two pictures of side by side protein bars which I just happened to see in the supermarket. And on one of the bars is for women, and one of the bars is for men, and they're different colors and apparently different products. They're called
different things. One's all red and pink, the women's one, and it, you know, talks about being low in sugar and low in carbs, and it's got the low number of calories in it. And the man's one as black, of course, and it's got about all the protein in it. And as you know what's coming, because I've already told you. But then I turned it over and I looked at what's in it. It's the exact same identical bar in
two different rappers. And the bit I didn't tell you was both of them have a five star health rating, and I'm like, then I googled that, and I thought, how do they get that? And I did it and went in and it's backed by the government and created by the government. This rating, this particular rating system, and I'm thinking, and the star rating goes between half a
star and five. So this highly processed stuff in a wrapper is the highest of high water marks for like the highest you can get for anything in a supermarket is five stars. And this is it. Wow, what would broccoli be? You know, what would a chicken breast be? I don't know.
Well, but now the interesting I've written quite a bit about that star system because it's an abomination. It's actually best used in reverse. So we go for the foods with the lowest number of stars because they because the system is heavily biased to how much saturated fat is in something. So something like butter has half a star, Margarine has five stars. Right, Margarine's full of deed oils and will kill you. Butter is perfectly healthy and excellent food.
So I found that the best way to use that star system is in reverse, go for the foods that have the lowest number of stars.
Wow. Well spoken and authorized by David Gilleston. Yes, so have a lookout folks. You know, you might see you might see that it's a very well known brand. You wrote something today, was it about fish?
That you I have written it and haven't even published it. So you're getting this hot off the pre presses. Wow, wow, this is your listeners are hearing this before it even appears on the internet. Do tell Okay, So Fish. It's an interesting story because you know, it's kind of related to the things we've been talking about, because you know, we've we've had all this advice, Oh, you know, you can't eat saturated fat, stay away from the red meat, all that sort of thing. It's going to give you
a heart attack and all that sort of thing. And often what's put forward is the alternative is, you know, you can either become a vegetarian, which isn't too palatable to most people, or well, you know, of course you can eat fish. Fish is perfect food, very very low and saturated fat high. And Amiga three is heart healthy,
excellent stuff. And then the other workplace that we get that recommendation from is probably in the last thirty years or so, people have started doing studies that suggest that our Amiga six and Amiga three ratios are out now you've probably heard this before. We're supposed to have Amiga three and Amiga six ratios in equal amounts in the body. The Amiga six is pro inflammatory, the Amiga three is
anti inflammatory. Our immune system works on the basis that if we have roughly the same amount of each, then the body can run the immune system and the information response perfectly. And if you look at ancestral diets, they do deliver about equal quantities, about one and a half grams of each per person per day, which seems to be about exactly what we need. Not surprisingly, we're evolved
in an environment divides that. So the problem is that if you look at modern diets, a Mega six is way out of whack because we're using seed oils, vegetable oils and so on that we've talked about a lot before, a like canola and sunflower oil, and safflower oil and soybean oil, rice brand grape seed. Well, all those oils
are very very high in Omega six. And because they are the oils that the Heart Foundation tells you to consume instead of eating things like meat and butter and so on, then the modern diet tends to be quite high in a mega six and quite low in Amega three because there's not a lot of Amiga three in most of that. Although surprisingly you can get exactly the right amount, and this is worth knowing. You can get exactly the right amount of Amiga three and Amega six if you eat a cheat sandwich.
Did you say a cheese sandwich.
Yeah, because dairy obviously it contains if it's grass fed dairy, the fat from a grass fed cow, which is obviously what's used to create cheese. If it's a grass fed one is exactly half and half a Mega six and Mega three. And the amount you get from a cheese sandwich if there's butter you being used on the bread rather than margarine, is exactly the amount you need for your daily supplies of it. Because we do need it.
It's an essential fat. We can't manufacture it ourselves. So yeah, you could have a cheese sandwich, but that never makes it into the dire dietary advice. But the problem is that all these studies keep coming out saying, oh, we're all eating too much Omega six and the Heart Foundation and all the dietary gurus say, oh, well, the solution to that is easy. We just need to up our Amiga three intake. I didn't get it back into balance. It actually is impossible. I can't remember I tried to
find it for this article. I'll have to dig it out. It's a truly extraordinary amount of fish we would have to consume to get a Meiga three up to the level, because most of us are now running at about twenty five to one a Mega six to Omega three, So you'd really have to consume truly vast amounts of amega three. And there's no guarantee that that would help at all anyway, because it's a problem not just of the ratio, but of the amount of Amiga six. So the true answer
is reduced the Amega six, not increasing Mega three. But I'm kind of straying a little bit away from the point here, which is the answer we've been given is well, you should be eating fish because fish is chokers with amega three, so it'll get your Amiga three balance up. And it's not red meat, so you know you won't have with all that nasty saturated fat. So what you should be doing is you should be having a lot of fish. Now, we've listened to that since the nineteen seventies.
The average Australian is now eating more than twice as much fish, So that message has gotten through. We have really started to power up on the fish. We eat a lot of fish. We're eating a lot less red meat, eating a lot more chicken, and a lot of fish. Now, the problem with that is there just aren't that many fish, and so we have to farm them. And so you know, more than half the fish we eat now in Australia it comes from farms. It's not wild caught. And you
might say, also, what so we farm them? So what the problem with that is that farming fish means you have to feed them. And if you want fish to have a higher amega three content, which is the point after all, you have to feed them ameiga three because fish are no more capable of producing amega three than we are. The only reason the wild caught fish have high levels of omega three is because they eat other fish, and those other fish eat algae, which is where they
get the omega three from. So amega three isn't produced by fish, it's produced by algae that is eaten by fish, and then those fish are eaten by bigger fish, and then eventually they get big enough that we catch them, and so we get our amega three from fish in that way. The trouble is, if you farm the fish, none of that happens. You've got to feed the fish. You've got a lot of them in a small place. How do you feed them? They feed them the same way they feed feed lot cattle. They give them a
whole bunch of grain, so they're grain fed. So farmed fish are grain fed, and grain fed fish, just like grain fed cattle, have much more omega six in because grains are high in omega six than omega three. Now the fish farmers know this and know that that's a bit of a problem. So what they do is feed fish oil to the fish. And you'll be thinking, okay, well, hang on, where are they getting the fish oil from.
Exactly, They're getting it.
From wild caught fish. It takes five kilos of wild caught fish to create one kilo of farmed fish with the same amiga three content.
Well, what that seems like a very inefficient model for anything it does.
But those fish that they're catching and feeding to the other fish are not fish we would buy at the fish and chip shop, right, So they're small fish there, fish that you know they're not the kind of fish you could sell to humans, so they're using them to turn into fish oil to sell to feed to the fish. Trouble with that is, as you'll pointed out, that's not a particularly sustainable model and it doesn't work anymore, and it's largely being replaced by feeding them a different kind
of oil. Guess what seed oils. So the fish are actually being given seed oils which are largely consisted of a Mega six and grains which produce higher Amega six fish. The end result is, if it's a farm fish, it
probably has almost n Omega three in it. And so the solution that we've been given to a avoiding saturated fat and b increasing our a Mega three levels is to eat something that does that actually increases the Amiga six level, even if we didn't deep right in seed oil at the fish and chip shop, So it doesn't actually deliver on the promise of giving us a Mega three, and worse than that, it makes the problem worse for us because then we're getting even higher levels of Amiga six.
You shall full of good news, and so is there any I actually have a fish story I want to share after this?
So you go why did I even look at this? How did they even know to look at this? Because it's a pretty rarefied thing. And the reason I looked at it was because I did a book launch something or other somewhere, you know, where you do a talk about a book, and after it, a research scientist who works on fish came up to me and said, I want to give you the tip you need to look at fish. Because her job was studying fish, and what she was studying in particular was what happens to those
fish that have fed those seed oils. So they have much higher rates of death, They are much less commercially wiable because their skeletons are the rubbish. They die of cancer much more quickly, they die of a whole bunch of conditions that, you know, making money out of fish kind of difficult, and so her job was to try
and figure out what to do about that. But she was saying, you should have a look at this, not just from the perspective of what it's doing to the fish, but the fact that people it isn't generally known that this is what's happening with farm fish anyway.
So are there any any fish options that get the Gillespie tick.
Absolutely wild caught fish, and in Australia we're really really lucky that frequently one of our most popular fishes is wild caught and that's barre mundy.
So I'm guessing anything in it can no.
Not necessarily, it's I wish it were that easy. I wish it was easy enough that you could just say, oh, this is definitely wildcourt or this is definitely not. But what we want to try and encourage manufacturers to do is say whether something is wild caught. The trouble is that the percentage of fish that is actually available for wild catching now is so small that if it's available, it's going to be massively expensive.
Hey, here's my fish store. So Tony Robbins, you know who he is? Yes, yep. So he was a vegan or was it Yeah, he was a vegan for like twelve years and he married this lady called Sage, and I think she she encouraged him to start eating fish, started eating fish, so veggies and fish and whatever, and within a few years. So I just I just googled it. I don't exactly know what the unit of measurement is, but the mercury level, like the healthy mercury level is
around ten. His mercury level was one hundred and twenty three, and you've.
Got to be really careful with mercury, and particularly in tuna.
Like he was basically dead, like they they had like I think the point at which is meant to die is eighty or ninety. He was one hundred and twenty three. Then he had to go through this like this whole significant protocol to basically save his life. So I don't know, I don't know what kind of fish he was eating, but yeah, mercury is an issue as well.
Right, Yeah, it is for some types of fish, particularly tuna and certain certain of the species of tuna. Unfortunately, it's one of the most popular fishes consumed in the world because you know, it's what you get in cans, and a lot of people eat tuna, and there are real recommendations about safe levels of consumption for tuna. There's a chart I knocked together once for one of my books. I think that shows the mercury levels of the various fishes. But yeah, it is something you have to watch out
for the way to avoid that. There's certain species of fish, wild caught fish in and around Australia. I think I can't remember the top of my head, but some of the Australian salmon's and someone that have really really low levels. But yeah, I can dig out that data. But yeah, it's a known issue with certain types of fish, particularly tuna. But this is something else entirely quite apart from the
mercury killing you. You're also probably not getting what you think you're getting on the tin, which is a primary driver for a lot of people, at least those of us who aren't Catholic and eating fish because it's Friday. A primary driver for people consuming it is that they think I'm eating this fish even if I don't particularly like it, because I know it's you know, it's full of Amiga three and good for me.
Yeah, makes the criteria. Yeah, before you go, I wonder if you could give us three minutes on you did an article the other day, just just a snapshot, and maybe we can go into it next time. But the new study linking seed oil consumption with increased risk of macular degeneration.
Ah, yeah, now that that was a quite an interesting one. So this has been one that's been around for a while, which is that the story has been there since the nineteen sixties. There's in fact a Sydney doctor I think his name was Mackay or McKay who first put it out there and managed to get himself kicked off various authority boards and someone for saying for daring to say this. But he suggested that consuming seed oils and this is very early on, so he's basically saying consuming margarines was
likely to be bad for macular degeneration. Now, macular degeneration for the younger members of your audience, who probably haven't encountered that much, is that I think it's the second second biggest cause of vision loss in Australia, second or third, and it is quite a nasty thing that basically you lose the middle of your eyesight, so you know, the middle of your field of vision is blacked out and you can only see around the edge, which makes seeing
anything pretty hard. And it's a significant disease in old restraints. It's becoming much much worse in younger Australians too. And he said as far back as the seventies, I think the cause of this is set or consumption, and he gave really good reasons why, and it basically boils down to our eyesight uses polyunsaturated fat the Amiga threes to produce vision. In that the way we see things is by exposing Amiga's three fats to light, which burns them, and then so the pattern of it burning off in
our eyes essentially creates vision. And we have really sophisticated systems in our eyes to clean up the rubbish that gets created when you do something like that. The trouble is our bodies not particularly picky about the fats that it uses, and if it says so we've got mostly Amega six fats, all good, I'll use them instead. Trouble is our garbage disposal systems in our eyes don't know how to deal with the garbage that's created from Amega six fats. The study that I referred to in that
piece proved that point. So it proved that it is in fact the case that if you increase the Amiga six levels in the eyes, you produce maculate degeneration, and they could reliably produce it, and they tracked through the mechanism in a little more detail, following through on something we've talked about before, which is the four hn E, which is the extremely dangerous aldehyde, which is created from a mega six fats that wasn't talked about back in
the old days. I hadn't discovered it, but that's all part of the process. In long story short, the science is right now really nailing what was previously just a guess, a pretty educated guess, but a good one. The science is now saying, yeah, well it is actually the a mega six is. The interesting thing about that and a few of the other things that I'm writing about at the moment, is that there's a lot of science going into now for any because the drug companies think there's
a pathway there to make money. If they can find something that neutralizes for HN, and that's exactly what that study was about, then hey you've got a pill that someone can take that might help with macular degeneration and half a dozen other things. So there's a lot of drug company money going into this research at the moment, which means enormous amounts of new research is being produced on the dangers of seed oils that even ten years
ago just wouldn't have been imaginable. Because the drug companies are chasing money in this area.
Yeah, well wow, that'll be interesting to see what unfolds in there in the near future. Mate, We appreciate you. Apologies for starting a bit late. I blame Tiff and youtubee. She's got a makeup on it.
You haven't, so who's really to blame?
Greak you too, Well, yeah, we'll let you two sort out your holiday situation. For both of you on the Sunshine Coast allegedly missus Gillespie. I apologize, we'll say goodbye fair but for now, thanks again, mate, Friday, see you later.