I'll get a team. It's you project. What else would it be? It's Jumbo, it's Harps. I hope this finds you well, Michael cat CDIs Hi, mate, how are you well?
Thanks? Craig, how are you?
I'm good, buddy? Did I fuck up that pronunciation? I didn't get it right?
It's yeah either either.
Either or well. I should have told you before we went live. Mate. We're a very liberal, laid back conversation. We're a very sweary affair. So feel freedom, you know, swear, but well you know, if you you don't need to. You don't need to moderate yourself here or with this audience. My audience are very familiar to colorful language. So I know where you are. But tell my audience where we find.
You today, Brisbane Queen's Land.
Have you been up there forever? You're born?
There?
Is that where you're from?
Or did you know born in Timba? Yes? I was in Twimba most of my life and then with my career to went to the States. So I was in the States for six years. Then the later part of my career started progressing back to Australia. You know, I did like a bit of time training out of Melbourne, and then of course training Sydney with Johnny Lewis, and then back to my roots again, back to with my very first trainer, and then it's mean Gold Coast Brisbane.
Yeah, when you were a kid, did you want to be an athlete? Did you want to be a boxer? Did you like a little kid? Did you have aspirations? Is that what you wanted to do?
Yeah, like a genetical kind of like it's well, my brother and I will both be the same. But for me, I would watch the Rocky movies. I was like seven years of age, and I saw like this guy's overcoming adversity. He had nothing, much like when I grew up as well, like we had nothing and come you know, and you know, I just said to myself from the age of seven, I want to be a champion. I planned the seed. Then I planned the seed then and it wasn't until
I was about the age of eleven. I was eleven and a friend of mine took me down to the local PC y C. I put on a put on a set of gloves and ipp two black eyes and then I love that, you know, I want to get better, you know, so instead of the glass being half full, half empty. It was half fulled, you know, And I was keen to get back there and make sure next time that I didn't get beat up as badly. And I went back in the next week, I only got one black eye. I was like, I'm doing better.
That's fifty percent improvement. Yeah that's hilarious. Yeah, well that's I mean that means you build for boxing, right, because most kids are going to get punched in the face and two black eyes and go fuck that. See you later. I'm going to take up fucking running or something.
But yeah, I didn't see that.
Yeah did you have Obviously you had an innate talent, but how much and you ended up being a world ampion and all of those things and Olympic athletes or fucking amazing. How much of your success do you reckon was innate talent? And how much do you reckon was work, discipline, self control, sweat?
Yep? So, like world champions aren't made overnight. And then you asked any businessman, any successful person, whatever they do, it didn't happen overnight. And you know, and you know, some people look at other people that are wealthy and
they say, oh, look, you're just lucky. You know, but it's not luck, you know, Like they'll tell you there's a strategy, there's certain things, there's certain things in their their genetics so to speak, as I said earlier, the things that they're in their makeup that brings them to being that. Like I wasn't just born being able to cop hits in the head, like I just told you earlier. You know, I got two black eyes, you know, but it was my my will to want to go back
and be better at doing that. Like I found I found a love for it. I found an interest and as like an addiction, like I wanted to keep on doing so whatever whatever people I surrounded myself with, or was the people that were going to better me because I took an interest in what they do that we were interested in the same thing. We had like minded interest and and I want I want to growth and that was just naturally within me. Yeah, what was the.
I'm always interested, Like I reckon, if I had been you mate and I went down I got punched in the face, I would have been fuck that, Like I know, I would have been right. I don't have whatever you have, I don't have. That doesn't mean that you know, it's yeah,
but it's what was the driver for you. Did you did you associate being a boxer with well, if I'm a boxer, I can look after myself and I'll be safe, or did you associate it with getting out of you know, like poverty or you know, financial hardship, and thinking boxing might be a ticket to some kind of financial freedom.
From from the get go. Okay, So if you want to get into boxing to make money in the wrong business and ain't a money business, like only the very few slipped through the cracks, only the very few can make it to the top end. It's a really hard, long road and I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone but the psychological battle and this is the thing that you know, psychological side of things, and you would agree
no doubt. But the I planted a seed from the age of seven, and like, over years, like I always took an interest, like I love the rocky so soon as I see the box and stuff, I took a bit of an interest, you know, so you know, like I would, I would slowly progressively get used to being hit, used to see if you see me now, and then there's something moving towards me, and I moved towards up for the understubled the power. But that's coming from the I'm the target and I'm moving away. So you learn,
you learn, okay, so roll with the punches. It's the saying you're going to roll with the punches, and same as in life, you know, you roll with the punches. And that's something that I became adapted to adapt too. And it was the plant, the seed that I planted in my mind from such a young age, and then I've gone into actually physically doing it. At the pc YIC, I thought it was so great. I thought it was amazing that, you know, these kids into getting there and
having a crack. I thought I could do this. I can have a crack at this and I can actually you know, neutralize their attacks and I can start, you know, cop the damage. And it looks pretty good. It looks it looks it feels pretty good to do this thing. Because when I first walked in there made it was intimidating,
it very intimidating. But to overcome that, to overcome that intimidating and to be that guy in there doing it, and then then to train to the point where you have your first fight, which I did It doesn't matter what age are. You can be fIF fifty years old and have your first fight. But for an eleven year old kid to get in there, and I was so look, I'll go on it. I was so scared to throw my right hand. I was just so scared, scared kid because I was at the Wilson and Pub in Timba
and everyone's watching it. It's like a real packed environment. And I was that guy on that stage, you know that, you know, doing doing the thing, and yeah, I had overcome some real fears to get through that bite.
Can you tell me you were eleven years old when you had your first fight?
Yeah?
Yeah, what the fuck in a pub? In a pub?
That's right, that's right.
That's surely that doesn't happen now. Like they're not. They're not. They're not putting eleven year olds in boxing rings in pubs in twenty twenty four, are they?
You don't have to be ten, to be honest with you only have to be ten, and they are, they are, And it's a it's a real look, it's a real you know, well back in the day o case, they growing up, you know, got that you know, like like guys would have a scrap right, and that you know, they'd have the differences and they might have a scrap and you know they do the old old English, so you know, they a punch.
And they shake hands after it, you know, yes, yes, hiding in.
Backyard boxing, it become like a part and part of the parcel. And these days it's like kids don't even know what they're doing by the time they get in the fight. They don't even know how to control these emotions. They don't know how to match the physical with the emotion they're feeling, and they just go stupid to pick up a knife and stab someone or kick them in the head when they're down. And there's a lot to be said about the old school method of learning and
that and I really respect that. Yeah, maybe you know, the psychological side, you know, there's a lot to be desired, but there is like you know, maybe they didn't go a bit too far, but there is some good that was taken from that. You know, like to learn it in the boxing and you know, to learn a bit about the art of art of war. And you know, I really did like the old school way of doing things.
Yeah, look, I mean I'm a big fan of martial arts and boxing and all the various forms of training in that space. And I mean, the only the only thing. There's only one thing I don't like about combat sports, and that's potential brain damage that comes with it, right, and that's just because that's because of who I am
and my job than like I work. I've worked with lots of people that have gotten the CTA and one of my one of my athletes that I trained, I won't mention his name, but he ended his own life and because of that, you know, so that I hate that part of it, but I fucking love you know, the discipline, the structure, the accountability, the environment where you're learning how to use your body in a different way.
You're learning how to defend yourself if you need to, you know, And you're right, Like you make a really good point, Michael, and that is that you know, kids growing up like they've still got all the same emotions that we had thirty years ago, you know, like when I was a kid fucking two hundred years ago, but like you're growing up, you've got all these emotions. If you're a boy, you've got testosterone fucking running around your
body and you're a like you're a fucking idiot. You're full of testosterone, you've got the IQ of a wombat, and you're trying it and you're trying to figure shit out right, And yes, but you're getting back in the day, and I'm not recommending at anyone, so don't send me an email. But back in the day, you know, we were always in scuffles and you know, like not necessarily punching each other in the head, but just like minor altercations and disagreements and everyone, you know, all of my
group survived and it's all okay. But but now that because we've kind of and I'm not suggesting you know that people resolve problems by punching each other in general society, I'm not recommending that, but having an outlet, having an environment where you can go and learn to hit a speedball or a floor to ceiling, or hit a heavy bag or hit some pads, you know, and move around and feel what it's like for somebody just to you know, throw a punch at you, and just I mean, it's
good on so many levels other than boxing.
Right, Yes, well, you say what you will about it, you know, like people have their own opinion. However, look at the youth crisis these days, and look at like the way kids are reacting when when when they're confronted with stuff at home and the trauma that they're not dealing with, they have no outlet, there's nothing, So what is the better alternative? But you look at the way of the old, the way that we were, and then the way that people have. It's just it's just an
unsaid thing. You don't like, they don't they don't carry on the way they're carrying on now. And this is part of my mission now, Like I see, like you know, I've gone through what I've gone through. We can speak about that, but you know, I can't wait any longer now, Gary, I'm at the point where Craig.
That's all right, Brian, you got you got here one too.
Many times, son, I know because I speak.
So good, so good, carry on Yeah anyway, Yeah, say what you will, but you know I can't wait any longer.
And you know, I like to, you know, empower others. I like to see, you know, like to see kids out having to crack and doing something with their lives and have an adverts you have something they can have the energy you know, spent on.
Yeah, when was the first time somebody said to you, you might be really fucking good at this, like you you could like when did somebody first encourage you and say, you know, it's good that you're doing all this, but you actually are talented.
Yeah. Yeah. I had really good support from my parents, you know, like they we my brother and I both chose to be in the sport of kings, you know, racing and boxing. So whatever we wanted to do, they didn't say this, and you're going to boxing today. I chose to go to boxing, you know I did. My brother wasn't made to get up at three o'clock in the morning to start picking up shit at the stables. You know that he chose to do that. That was his decision. You know, he chose to leave school before
grade ten. He chose to becoming a fan of Shocky. He would run up and get the newspaper every weekend, especially the know in Timber when we had the big wheat Wood Cup every year. You know, he would get that every time without fail. You know, that was his drive, you know, like he wanted. So we were very self driven and we had support from our parents. But they did answer your question. I didn't really care. You know,
I didn't. I didn't really care. It's just like I took my like I look and and there's another question as well, like I like, you know, was I just gifted? You know? Did I have the talent? No? I didn't, you know, I didn't. I chose to, you know, I chose to get better. I wasn't the fastest guy in the world. I wasn't the most skilled person in the world.
But but I I built on those those strengths, you know, you know, and then my weaknesses and you know, like I was looking at some guys you know when you're a kid, and then you're watching this when we never went Fox Fox TV, I still come out still and Fox Sports, and I went first to pay TV and you're watching a five season. I saw these guys fighting, and I was like, Oh, we're ever going to be
that good. These guys are amazing. And then eventually I was looking at this guy called Joel Psmas are three times on MPI and gold medalist, and he's a Hall of Fame and he's all this and all that. Then one day I've gone from this fifteen year old to this twenty eight year old, twenty seven year old was he was standing across me on the other side of
the ring. You know, we're about to fight, and wow, I know and like I said to myself and I knew this, look my best way to shorten these guys boxing the ability was to hit them really fucking hard. You know, that's a really fucking hard like you know, I know you guys can do all these moves and you've been brought up and learning all these fancy things and that. But I'm going to hit your real fucking hard and put the fear of life into you, and then we're going to see how good your boxing is.
And that's that's just that was my way of overcoming their fancy skill things. I just get right in their face. Given the room, that was my psychology, that was my mentality, you know, like you want to be tough, you want to be heardache, I'm going to go harder, you know, and I'll just keep on stepping it up and stepping it up. So I do the same sort of thing in training as well. I'd get really really really get a big role and I get really really tired. But
have I got any more? And I dig a big deeper. Yeah, I got more. I got more and dig deeper and deeper, and I keep going and have I got Yeah, I got more. I just keep pushing it and keep pushing it, and then eventually that I'll become this thrashing machine.
I reckon. You know, that's interesting. I reckon in life, like a lot of it is about in boxing, but in other sports, in building a business, in building a brand, in getting through some of the ship that you've gotten through in the last few years, which we'll talk about, yes, but it's like about how much pain can you deal with?
How much?
How much, how uncomfortable can you get and.
For how long? Right?
How much? Because you know, here's the here's the My listeners are sick of me saying this ship, but you and I are talk him for the first time. So like, where we grow is in the pain, Like where we get better is in the discomfort. That's where you develop awareness and in a boxing sense, skill and competence, understanding windcraft, all that. Like, but you can't get good at boxing without going through the two black eyes you got on day one, right, Like, you can't get good at what
you won't do. And there are so many talented people in boxing outside of boxing, you know, in business, in fucking singing, in music, in whatever. They just won't get uncomfortable for long enough. Like you and me sound a little bit the same, like in that I'm not very well. You're definitely a much better athlete than I would have ever been. But what I mean is, I'm not the smartest. I'm not the most creative. I'm not the most physiologically gifted.
I don't have you know, all that stuff. And you get to the point where you go, well, I can't wake up tomorrow with more talent or better genetics, So I better just fucking work hard, you know, Like, because that's the one thing I can control. I can control how hard I work, and I can control to an extent, how strong I get, how fucking aerobically fit I am. I can develop my skill, you know, and I can be courageous because that's a choice as well.
Right, that's right, it is, it is. And look, look I did get like I did get a lot of the warning signs, you know, like like some people said to me, Look how long did they say? In American I think it was Max Calluman who would interview on me. And yeah, and a lot of interviews I've seen my style. I was just in that face. I'm just pushing up, pushing up, pushing up, you know. Always it's been right in the face ID like top three hitches to given one and they would say, how long I can't see this?
How long do you think your career will last like this? You know, like you know, and looking back hindsight, it's such a wonderful thing. And that's where I'm in this position now where I can pass on the message to other people, know, you know, like how long can you keep on doing that for? Because you need to you need to also, you know, think smarter, not harder. You know, there's one thing to be hard. But there's also some guys, you know, they get in the gym and they want
to be harder. They want to be hard man. They want to be hard man. But look that the fights don't like I relate boxingto life in a lot of ways. But like they get in there and they start sparring and they're doing a show right there in the gym, and by the time they get their first fight out of the bad, they're already construct they're just pissing up the war contest his ego contests, you know, like work on your skills in other ways and smarter ways. There's
definitely a lot smarter ways to do things. And that comes back to you know, like you've done a lot of work in the sport sports physiology and that look, I actually speak to a doctor every every week. I'd meet up with him because we'd have some really interesting conversations and he'd work on the psychology side of things with me. And I was as this ego kid, you know,
I had this ego like you said, testosterone, young gumfuller. Come, you know, you can tell me things a thousand times and unless I actually respected you, you know, like, and I knew back now now thinking back talking to this doctor that I sort of thought I knew a bit better than him.
I don't know, I just thought.
I just I just know that I had that little chip on my shoulder. And he was saying, now, Michael, because I'm undefeated, right, twenty three fights, twenty three wins, twenty one knockouts, like I'm thinking on the ship, right, And then she says, how are you going to react when you have your first loss? You know, like just asking the question, he just went and I'm like, fucking, how do you consider that? I'm to have a loss like that, that was my attitude fucking now like I did.
I didn't see that one coming, and not only to have my loss, like I lost my brother as well, so it's just gone crash boom boom boom. And he was like, you need to prepare yourself. Don't prepare yourself. He was saying, basically, don't prepare yourself for failure, but prepare yourself for things not always go the way that you're plan you know, but they're not always going to
go the way that you're plan. Like I just recently spent a couple of days with George Cambosas for those who don't know who is he's a unified lightweight world champion of the world and he's just he's lost his title again recently. The bloke has done things that you know, no other Australian fighters have done, like very if you have done anyway, and he's a big name, you know.
But I see the way that he does things. He's just like he does things so neatly and so everything is accountab like he puts everything neat in the place and has like a structured way of doing things. But there also comes this other part where you've got to roll with the punches and you've got to adapt and stuff. And like I'm just I'm telling you our harps, you know, Like I wish I listened to guys like you a
bit more now. So if it's any message I can pass on to these these kids and everyone's well wherever. The psychological state of mind is so powerful in everything we do every day. I can't even express it enough.
It's like, yeah, you know, some of us are slow learners, mate, I am you are. That's okay, but we're still fucking learning. But I think also, you know, like obviously no one'm wants to lose, but life gives. Life gives no fucks about your feelings or my feelings, right, Life doesn't give a shit about you. Doesn't mean nobody gives a shit, but life doesn't care about your feelings, or your outcomes
or your boxing record. Life doesn't care if I have three listeners or three million listeners, or if I'm making a few bucks or all the bucks. Life doesn't care. And it's like that, even though it was painful that first loss, and even though you wish you never had it, I guess, but you learn something about yourself, right, and it might not be something you want to learn in the short term. But like if you don't know how to deal with disappointment or failure or pain or grief,
fucking good luck trying to live. Because disappointment, as you know with your brother, grief, loss, pain, tragedy. Fuck dude. I mean that's just like this is just stuff that the human experience means that we've got to deal with that eventually.
Right.
Yeah. Look, I'll tell you now, like had I prepared myself to deal with things when it happened, maybe my life wouldn't have taken the road that it did. But you know, when I had that first loss, you know I was I look back and I can look back now and I can tell you clearly like I planted that seed in my head for that loss back when I was a kid watching watching TV. Think when I said to myself, I'm never going to be that good.
I said, I said it to myself there and then, and I was punching these guys all that come before me. They would fall, and I thought I was this olter Ego god, this Achilles warrior, half Greek rah rah rah blah blah, and believe in my own lies and just
and and then then comes the problems with addiction. You know, then you find something and you're like, you like picking up a drink, and then you start swinging into the drugs, and then your life just starts tumbling and falling and it just becomes like an avalanche and just one thing leads to another, and like you're looking in this this spot and look, yep, I tell you I landed in jail. You know, I've got myself for two years jail, and I'm sitting there and I'm thinking to myself, well, fucking
how great is this? You know, how great is this? Because I have gratitude. I'm thankful I'm here now, and I know I know the only way I'm going to get out of the ship is by looking up and forward and don't look back, and just share my story, okay, talk about where I've been and tell other people that I don't want to go there. It's a fucking ship place,
you know. And I have gratitude that I'm alive, I'm well, and I've had the luxury of having the support that I've had, and I've have so many people that do care about me. I'm thankful for the life that I've had, and I'm going to get out and I'm going to tell my story and I'm become a much better person than I was before.
Good on your man. I love that. I love to hear that. And you look amazing. You look clear and clean. It's sober and articulate. And for a bloke who's been punched in the head a lot, you can even string up a few words together. Now, there's no there's no obvious cte. So well done. You must have a head like a fucking coconut.
Yeah. I don't know about the CD yet. We'll find out.
Yeah, No, let's keep our fingers crossed. It's it's it's I mean, I only just met you, but I'm I'm kind of proud of you, even in this short term of where you were to, where you to, where you've come, and where you're heading. So I want to So one of my roles, which I didn't tell you before we went live, is for quite a while, about four or five years, I worked as a consultant for a drug and addiction rehab Yeah. Yeah, So I spent a lot of time working with people battling booze and addiction in
gender broadly, right, So I'm interested. And so for you, do you think that, like for a lot of people, using using whatever it is they're using, is a mechanism to get out of psychological and emotional pain, like to escape that because you just don't want to fucking sit in that feeling all that sit in that mindset and when you use all of a sudden, now I'm in a better place in inverted commerce, right yeah? Was that part of it for you is to get out of that pain of having to deal with stuff?
Yeah? Yeah, So yeah, looking back, I can say that because but before I could even realize that. So if you're sitting there right now, listen to this and you're pissed off, your brain off, your high as a kite, you know you might not be able to see this, but leave me when I say it. You know you're like, you need clarity to really see you need clarity. You need to have the clarity. And look like, I had a lot of pain. You know, I was dealing with loss.
I was dealing with you know, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what I dealt with. You know, I lost my brother and I grew up very very close. We talk all the time he was Australia's leading jockey. He was racing in the Melbourne Cup. And it was a week till he rode in the favorite shoot out in the Melbourne Cup. And I was fighting in three weeks. In three weeks, I was fighting against to count the pound best fighter in the world. So this is a
fight that would make my household name. I'm on the phone with my brother and you know, like we're talking about his right next week in the Melbourne Cup, he's going to win the Melbourne Cup. Like the times present. Him and that horse have good relationship. My brother was going to be after all these years, all these worker, was going to be the best writer in Australia. And
when the Melbourne Cup, it's a big thing. And we had a long conversation at least a couple of hours, and then you know, in the morning, I get a phone call from from Brendon. He says, meet me at the gym. Get on your motorbike, because we get around the scooter motorbikes in Thailand. I was in training camp and I get it and I knew something. He said, turn your phone off. So I did exactly what he said. I get on the motorbike and I go down and
meet him. I said, Brendon, what's happened to someone who's died having a and he said, yeah, it's your brother. And I just fell to the ground and started crying, mate, and just even talking about it now, it's just really living like his face. You know, he was the same
as me. He's just found to picture. It seems the media hard about Stathi and I it was a hard thing, and but look, I want to share that because I want to share that because you know, when you look at like, you know, I got close with a lot
of athletes and people like Mick Fenning. You know, just just the reason why I mentioned Mick Fenning's name is because he's the guy that lost his brother as well, and he had a choice on which way he wanted to go, what he wanted to do, And I just decided to start masking the pain immediately, and in three weeks time, I'm fighting the pound for pound best fighter
in the world. I decided to stop drinking and doing drugs ten days before the fight, because I, you know, I just thought I'm not going to be able to have the fight, you know in the first place. If you don't pass a drug test, and you know, and I've just the media couldn't mention his name to me because I would burst out crying. Is they they put a media ban on that. But I've dropped the pound
for pound best fighter in the world. I put him on his arse and then as I've gone to finish him, I could hear the complicators yelling, and he's thinking of his brother. And for the first time my fucking life, I've hesitated when it come to finishing. I just went in my own head and I started like thinking too much or maybe I shouldn't shure know. I just went to that wow, and I would never give a fuck
what was going on outside. I was My eye was on my poont what his hands were doing, what his legs were doing, what his eyes were doing, what is and where do I need to execute to finish this guy? Like what I need to do? And my mind was elsewhere. Mate. Anyway, he's recovered, he's come back later in the fight, and then they stopped the fight in his favor. You know, we could be having a different conversation today, but I can tell you now I won the fight. I was
fighting Shane Maizy. It was it Shane Mozy, But I was I set the fight MANI Pacio, I set the fight, Shane Mazi. I was on the list for Mayweather a few times, you know, as a four through guy. But I was that guy. I was one of the most
exciting fighters in the world. And I can tell you in now half if I'd become that world wide household name, all that would have happened, as the plot would have thickened, the money would have been higher, and my might tumble and paw would have been barg greater than what it already was. So I have gratitude. I have gratitude. I'm a sitting funny and now saying I'm glad I went to jail. I'm glad I learned the hard way because that was the only fucking thing that was going to
bring into clarity. It was the only thing that was going to bring bring me into recovery. And one thing that I learned in recovery is the best way to keep something is by giving it away. So I'd start my level NA and narcotics anonymous and aa AA groups. There is talking with groups and prisoners in jail and stuff, and I really related to a lot of people I really a lot of people there, and there's a lot of people that's dealt with a lot of trauma in their life, a lot of abuse, a lot of sexual
abuse and violence, and they had problems with addictions. And I could relate to a lot of these people because guess what, I was one of those kids that was sexually abused. That happened to me, and that changed your whole fucking mindset. That fucks you up, you know, And I would love the chance. I've just recently found out the name of the guy that did it to me, and I would love the chances to sit in front of me and say, hey, mate, you really fucked my life.
Not only my life, but my brother like because he too found masking of the pain and at the end of drugs and alcohol and now he's dead as a result. And it's affected my family and my career. My entire empire has crumbled. And these predators are predators that are out there. Listen to this. You fuck the society, you fuck people's lives. Because most of these guys in jail that are fucked up have done these suba things. I don't even know where they are and what they're doing
because of that out of their brain. They just want to master pain. And that's due to a lot of this. And like you've been really, really surprised how many people are victims of sexual abuse. I don't know how we even got onto this.
But made it's relevant, it's in it. It's I mean, it's like he's like I said to you before we started, mate, I don't care where we go, let's just change. And I think, but here's the thing, right, it's is it a comfortable conversation with people?
Know?
But is it real? Yes? Is it necessary that? Yes? Do we need to china light on this horrible fucking thing that happens? Yes, we do, you know. And the thing is that you what I love about this moment right now is here's this tough guy, this fucking world champion box of this Olympic athlete who's done some great shit and some dumb shit, like all of us, haven't you. I mean, it's true, right, I do dumb shit every day,
you know so. But in the middle of all of that, you're being raw and real and vulnerable, and you're telling us about stuff that a lot of people understandably would struggle to share. But you're not doing it because you want glory or attention. You're doing it because you want to help other people not go through what you went through. You want to stop the fucking morons that do it. And also you want people to realize I'm putting words
in your mouth. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that it can happen to anyone.
Right, yes, and it can. It can. Yeah. Look, I just needed to ask the question to my brother's last partner that he had, and I said, my memory doesn't certain me so good, but I said, we're getting babysat. At the same time, I said, did start there saying anything to you? And she goes, oh, I just started crying. It really a lot of burst out crying. She said, he told me inever to tell anyone. Yeah, you never tell him, but yes, yes he did, you know, because
I had this dream that that something happened. And it's just common sense, right, we're both being baby sat and then he's and he's one kid that would the same thing, and he would just keep everything in, He'll keep everything all bottled up, and it's no one of the drugs end up killing him. Because if I had an out first, like more physical absertion, not saying that jockey. Being a jockey isn't a physical desertion. But now, first, I'm a
bit more outgoing than what my brother was. He was very much an introvert, and then when he found something that he loved it, it just killed him. You know. He loved riding, he loved horses, loved it, loved it, loved it. But then when the pain of what happened was still, we're still there and ultimately that's yeah.
Wow, yeah, and that was what was that like twenty.
Or yes, October nineteen twenty ten, So.
It's like fourteen years ago, but it's really like three minutes ago, isn't it.
Hey, I can tell you I procrastination prolongs the pain because, like I said, with Mick Fenning, with what he did with his life, you know, like he just he we would have went home. Look, we all have hard days at work and stuff, and then some guys want to get home and they want to pick up a beer. Fucking wear it on a chim mate. It's been a hard day, Wear it on a tin. Do it you've got to do, and go to bed and get up
fresh in the morning. You don't have to piss you know, drink drink it away and it will do the drugs or whatever, whatever you do, whatever your masking agent is, you know, just yeah, you just got to move forward. And that's a route like, look, what could have At that time, I said to myself, I want to you know, I want to do what my brother would have wanted me to do. My brother would have wanted to fight the pound for pound best fighter in the world. My
brother would have wanted to knock out one. And you're markets and being this glorified champion. But guess what, STARTHI wasn't with me anymore. STARTHI was gone. And really, really, when you think about it, STARTHI would have wanted me
to do what was best for me. And when we're flying in an airplane and the air hostess says, you fixed in the case of an accident, fix your mask before you fix your childs because you can't fix anyone else's anything if you can't help yourself, like I really needed. What I'm saying is I needed to look after me. You look, you need to look after number one. And look, and as I think you said earlier, you know some hard truth that I was told no one really gives
a fuck, No one really does. It's just until you've got like minded people and they are for what you are for and it all comes together and then yeah, okay, then you know, then people can care because you are full the same sort of thing. But you know, I should have dealt with that. I should have not taken that fight, because by doing so, and then by taking drugs, by drinking alcohol, I have procrastinated, and it's prolonging the pain. And fourteen years later, I'm here telling a story which
which I'm thankful for too. I'm thankful that I can share this story, and I hope that anyone listening doesn't go down the same road that that I go, and can actually listen to what I'm saying, so that if you like watching my fids, if you like what I've done, you liked my career, and you like that, then maybe you can take some respect and you can you can maybe you can respect what I say and that you know it can happen to anyone. As you said earlier, yeah.
Exactly exactly, mate. What so, if if anything, what what did you so like you said earlier, you spent two years life job, what did you what did you take away from that did you you know, did you I mean, I know nobody wants to be in jail, but did you learn? Did you grow? Did you get clarity? Did you get awareness like what happened?
Yes, I got clarity because I got sobriety. You know, well, it's just before I went to the job, when I found out that there was a wearing out for my arrest, that there was an investigation and on when my fingerprints were down on bags of cocaine and the safe at the house that was a raid was done on. Look, look, you know that was it. I said, right, that's it. Okay, I quit okay, and that's it because it was so fucking real, like when you get that phone call Ado Michael,
it's the it's the handred police here. And I was going to let you know, look, I followed your career and I supported Green. I followed your brother's career. Right, yeah, This this is how the conversation went. You know, like I was, I was high as a kite. I was sitting there. I'll tell you this. I was high as a kite and I was like sitting on sitting on the poker machines, and I just said, like I was
just like I was just really lost my life. I wear my life going to and I've gone through shiploads of money and I've gone through the last cent just literally the last ten cent bet one cent bet. And
then the phone call wrings it's a private number. Hello, this is Detective David Brooks from the handred of PlayStation just kind of let you know that, you know, first of all, it was very polite and respectable and the way that he said things, and you know, very you know, and then friendom my career, but it's going to say that your parole has been revoked and that you were remaining in jail until these matters are dealt with and blah blah blah blah blah, and I just went, you
know what, I said, thank you very much for letting me know. I appreciate the phone call.
Wow. Yeah, And then they came and collected you or what happened?
No, I went handed myself in there. Oh wow, yeah you want just here go yeah, hand up me. I've got to get off drugs. I got to stop drinking alcohol. Like man, like when you're a three time world boxing champion, when you're saying you come from the same your brother and know you're both like rubb and shoulders with the likes of Oscar the la Joie. You know, I got Australia's best athletes as well, like I got some great mates here in Australia and the successful business people I
always love talking about. Made a trip vis the owner of the Melbourne Storm, like I love being able to have these people lean on for support. And I rang him and I told him, I said, I'm going to get hid myself in, like I put my hand up in you and you and I went and and you know, I just owned it. I owned it. What else can you do? Like you I own it, like you pull your head in. You know. That's what I had to do.
And was it after two years inside? Was it a big adjustment coming out? Yeah?
Wow? Like the technology, like the way they do, like you can do everything's on the phone now everyone's always on their phones. By the way, now I've noticed, like you know, there's the big changes with a lot of that stuff. And everyone looked a lot younger.
That's hilarious and I've a lot older, you know, but things and a lot of changes happened within me, like things slow.
Down a lot, yeah, you know, like my wanting to run as much as you know, always like running, always like being active and all that logo. I just feel like I need to take my time with everything that I do. And I still I'm still a very active person. Look, look I am. I'm finding a lot of pleasure, Like I find a real I find a lot of passion and want to help people, you know, So I've got now on my Instagram, like I'm advertising I'm doing a bulletproof mindset course, so you know, people, I just want
to really want to help people find their best. That's what I'd love to be able to do this full time for work and help people and get something out of that. But you know there are other people out there that that do need help and want help. And you know, I guess I found a lot. I love what I love doing, and you know, like I've got business on the side as well, Like I've got a foreign company, you know. You know, I like, I like giving everything that crack. You know, it's just you know,
you want to make the most. I've got beautiful kids out there, and I cried, you know, I missed my daughter, and you know, I got married when I was in Vegas and I had a daughter when I was in now she's in Japan, and well, look, I made a lot of mistakes and love a lot of Like I spent a lot of time now like basically unraveling and fixing everything I did with for the time that I was in addiction, like a big mess that I created for myself. But like you know, every day it's getting better,
you know. And it's what people may not forgive me straight away, and I have to accept that because it's part of the actions that we do when we do and you know about all this being and the treatment of addiction all that like this, and look a look, I'm no scholar, Like I'm no good with the twelve steps, so I couldn't turn the order that they come in and that. But I do know that there's growth in myself.
I speak to my sponsor, you know, and I'm not someone that can sit down and go through the twelve steps of how that all works. But I'm very adamant and firm on recovery and how important it is to have that clarity.
Well, and I think also mate that you know, as we said before, it's like there's no three steps to even though there it is a twelve step program. I think that, like different things work optimally for different people. Yes, yeah, And it's not like everyone. It's like with boxing, Not everyone should fight the same way. Not everybody should eat the same diet, Not everybody will work with the same psychologists, right, Yes, not everyone should fucking run on concrete. Someone's going to
run twice and get injured. Someone's going to run a thousand times and not get injured. Right, So it's trying to in the middle of all of that, it's trying to figure out how do I get clean and sober, how do I stay clean and sober, how do I become a better human? How do I create a new operating system that works? And what are my values? And how do I live my values? Right? And that process is going to be different because we're all fucking different, right.
Yes we are. So. Look, Look, if you want something more than you want to breathe, I think that you're going to get it. Look, if you want a good life, if you want a good life and a better life, you're going to get it. And if the problem is standing in front of your ways out pole or it is drugs, just say for example, it might be something else. It might be other things. Okay, let's just say, but there is the support out there if you want to get it, you don't have to sign up to some
government thing will do that. Then there's not a big brig morale things like that. What I found was this is, for example, if you want to get on to a meeting and alaholics anonymous meeting or narcotics anonymous meeting, there's one every thirty minutes all over the world. You can get online and these people you don't even know, you're never seen them again, say share whatever the funk you want, talk about whatever you want, because they're just been actually
hearing yourself talk and say things. So that's what I started doing. What I decided to get clean before I even went the handle myself in. It took me eleven days to let all my kids know and you know, and just get things sorted. So my time actually went in there. But like I did, you know, and I was dragging my ass around made dragonmark. But every spare chance I got, I jumped online and I would start learning about this because if I want to have a
good life, I've got to get clean. That was my problem, that was my thing, that was my thing that I either deal with, but the other people have other things. Yeah, yeah, I totally get that, but that was me at that particular point in time. Anyway, the resources are available if you want them there and then look at and you know, and if you do need some help, you know, well guess what, you know, this is what I found really too.
Like you know, when you get when you put out in your ass and you get out of jail, they give you a Vinni's card and they give you like a train together.
That's what you've got. Hilarious.
Yeah, you've got your flip flops and you like you're just and you know, like you can you can call like and as and as. People might not see this, but you might have money, or you might have a career, you might have a lot going for you. But if you don't want to call lifeline, you know, you know that you can call Lifeline and that they'll tell you whatever it is, doesn't matter what it is. They'll like some people that are trained in this ship, they'll tell
you which way to go and what to do. And you don't have to be but you can be anyone. But just got to drop your fucking ego, you know, like just yeah, there's always resources available that will put you in contact with someone. This is one big, one big network the way the whole world and technology the way it works. You can't use it, but just people need to drop the fucking ego and there's a lot of shit out there and it is, it is available.
I really find happiness and enjoyment and working with people that help me move forward, you know, move forward and going on on and upwards.
Yeah, the best way to look after yourself in some ways is to have a purpose bigger than you, you know, because when you're all, yes, you need to look after number one from a mental and physical health point of view because that helps you do But in terms of having a purpose, you know, part of the reason I do this show is like we're sixteen hundred plus episodes
in and I did. I did two and a half three years of this show losing money, but I still enjoyed it because we were still helping people and having good conversations. You know, Yeah, I made it. Your ace, I think your fucking ace love you. How do people? How do people connect with you? Follow you? Find you? So give us a shout out to whatever your web side or your social media or however liple can connect.
Yeah, Michael Catz this Instagram. Just Michael Cats. This is my name. Cat's he k A T s I d oh, yes, Michael, Yeah, that's the best way. You know, I've got a bulletproof, bulletproof mindset of course what I'm doing, and I have the great blueprint with people to want to learn the boxing, but if they want to learn the mindset, you know I've got I've got different modules about mental clarity and where I've got my strength from a different stages in
my life. So yeah, yeah, Michael kat on Instagram.
Yeah, mate, you're you're a gym. Now, I'm just going to tell you a little interesting story before we go. So, the one of the girls who's on the podcast with me, her name is Tiff She's she sometimes sits in and she edits for me. She's a boxer. And you've said, you've said Rolling with the Punches a lot, and she's got a podcast called called Roll with the Punches. Oh yeah, man, it made It's been great. I appreciate you. Thanks for
coming on the you project. You're a gun. Good luck with everything moving forward, and maybe we'll chat again.
Yeah, yeah, that'd be great Harps and I appreciate you mate and everything that you do.
Thank you, you're a good man.