#1604 How Vulnerable Exactly - Harps & Tiff

You're the best. That's so funny, And then someone else sits down for an hour and writes and rewrites and drafts a fucking thousand word email to tell you that you're going to burn in an eternal lake of fire and that you're being whatever. I'm like, okay, but I understand both, and I'm not mad or you know, I get it. I get it. I get it, and who knows, who knows? They could be right? They could be right.

don't you so? And we forget that this is a podcast that people can just walk People can walk into that room at any point and not necessarily know Craig Harper deeply and all the sides of him in his background and his experience with religion and the times you've spoken about it in different ways. And then they come in and hear a bit of a joke and a bit of a snide remark that they take as a snide remark, but you know that's like, oh, they're only hearing one version of Harps and.

to that inspires you. But I think, like I'm as long as you actually want to vibe with someone, doesn't have to be me, and listen to someone or learn from someone, or you know, if if all you do is criticize everyone you listen to and everything you read, and then that's that's probably a different thing, but one. And even sometimes there's no bigger critic of Craig Harper

than Craig Harper. And I listen to things that I've said, like every now and then I'll like, the other day we put up Harry Garside that an interview I did about two years ago, and I thought, because Harry just fought obviously, and we all know he didn't win his fight, but he was just so amazing and gracious and gorgeous post fight, and the things he said, and I went well, let's you know, and I've been running up and back and forward to the country to kind of look after

my folks a little bit. So there's a bit going on on Planet Jumbo. And anyway, they're not two short stories. I went, I'll have a bit of a listen to me and Harry to see because I never listened generally back, and I went, I kind of listened to twenty minutes, and I went, Harry's brilliant. But I'm a fucking idiot. It's like that's and I know I'm not an idiot, but I honestly I cringe when I hear my own shit, which is part of the reason that and I know

that I know that sometimes that's warranted. Sometimes I'm not doing a great job, for sure, And you've got to be that honest and that brave, I think, because otherwise, if you always think that everyone else is wrong or you are doing a good job when you're not doing a good job, then you can't really learn and grow and evolve and get better because you already think you're there. But I listened to it, and I went and I waited up, and I went, well, is this worth putting up?

Because I didn't like me so much in it, and I think overall it's quite good, and I think the main point is Harry, and Harry's really good. So now, before we go too deep into this chat, Melissa will sack me if I don't mention the fact she's like said she ranging me. Just before we started, She goes, could you please remember now, I'm going to say that I am quite terrible at business, and I am terrible

at promoting the things that I have coming up. Considering how much normal people in my position promote the fuck out of their books and programs and you know, offerings, I'm shit. So here's what I'm going to tell you. I've got some workshops coming up.

But it's all about helping you become a better version of you physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, practically, behaviorally, whatever that means. It's called Understanding You. August eighteen in Bendigo. It's three hours, it's two to five. It's cheap as fuck. Get on board. Also, I'm doing one in Melbourne, same workshop in Melbourne on September eighth, That is at Deacon University. That is nine thirty till twelve thirty on a Sunday. Also Malulaba stand by,

stand by, Malula bar fuckety fuck. I'm coming up to the Sunshine Coast to do some corporate work and while i'm there, while i'm there, because I can, I am doing an interactive kind of workshop called Stop Wasting Your Potential. This is a private workshop for about twenty five to thirty people. Where is it at I think it's at the Mantra. Often what I do when I'm traveling in state and i'm doing corporate work is i will book the boardroom of the hotel that i'm staying at and

I'll just do a private workshop. So if you are in or around the Sunshine Coast that is happening on August twenty two, that is very different. That is where we're all essentially sitting at a great, big table and it gives you an opportunity to be very involved if you want, or you can just sit there and be a participant in that way. And the last thing I've got to promote is which everyone can come to. You don't need to be in Victoria or the Sunshine Coast

or Bendigo. You can be anywhere in the world. I'm doing a workshop, and this is a new workshop also called Love your Body. It's an online workshop and opening a few doors. Obviously, my background is in running gyms and owning gyms and being an excise scientist and working with tens of thousands of bodies. But I'm going to be I'll give you a hint. I'm presenting more. Yes, we're talking about the anatomy in physiology, and we're talking about nutrition and sets and reps, and we're talking about

all the fundamentals of getting in shape. But we're really opening the door on why the fuck we do the stuff that we do good and bad to our body. Stuff with food, stuff with sleep, stuff with a drugs, stuff with booze, stuff with you know, like starting, stopping, What is that about in the zone, out of the zone, losing weight, gaining weight, getting fit, getting unfit. And now I'm fifty. So we're going to talk about the psychology, the sociology, the emotion, and the physiology of changing your

body forever. That is September ten, online, seven toll nine pm. It's called Love You Body. All of that shit is on my website. Melissa is going to be so proud of me. It's Craig Harper dot net. Get the fuck along, book yourself a ticket or twenty five bring one hundred friends, bibdybobbity boo. Did I do good?

It's a fucking love in. Of course, we get a few husbands who have reluctantly been dragged along, sitting there with their arms and legs and minds crossed in road fifty two, going what the fuck is this bullshit? Why did you drag me to this, darloon? We get a few of those, and we convert a few of those over. We drag them out of the darkness into the lights. The revelation of the gospel of self help and personal transformation.

But yeah, so I'm excited, and it's good to be back in a room with people that I like and people that hopefully like me, and apart from having some fun and a good experience, hopefully for many people anyway, this will be and not because of Harper and not because of the day, but hopefully that experience will be a catalyst for long term change. Speaking of long term change, I'll shut up after this. Did you see I put

up on a put up on Instagram yesterday. I'm looking for it now, which is not a very professional thing to do, but I put up introducing my brand new body transformation program. Did you see that?

minded interest and support and accountability. And some of my most valued opportunities and friendships, to be honest, that I have now and that have taken me places or moved me forward, whether it's just mentally, psychologically or actually in the world, have come from connections that came from and some of them from your workshops, some of them from

people that were in your rooms, big opportunities. I worked for Ambulance Victoria through COVID because of that, and that was the catalyst for what I do now because I've met someone I connected with at that event, and I just think community and the people that are around us are the reason we change. So that's where people will meet the reasons that they'll change.

and stupidity. And I'm like, I like that because you know some of the shit like like, well, today we want to talk about how real and raw and vulnerable we should be. But you know what I don't joke about is like I would say, on average, every week of my life, I talk to two people who are thinking about ending their life, like at that time when I talk to them, right, sometimes it's three, sometimes it's none.

Sometimes it's more or less. Or people who are deeply darkly rest or life, debilitatingly anxious or overwhelmingly fearful, or they just have like a nihilistic kind of paradigm of like what's the fucking point, Like I don't feel like there's a you know, and like those are those are hard conversations and you have to be present and you have to just love people, and you you know, sometimes I don't know what to say. I don't know what

to say. All I do is I just listen, and I value them, and I value their feelings and I validate their feelings and I don't try to fix it, and I just be present, and you know, and then there are other people on a more practical level that come to me that need to lose fifty ks or they need to get over their shitty back or fucking

lower their blood pressure or fix their fucked relationship. And obviously I'm not the answer to anything, but like we are, and you do similar, Like I am always dealing with complicated, pretty intense, pretty serious stuff. And when I'm not doing that, you know, for me, storytelling and laughter and silliness, and

that's that's my therapy. You know, that's where like me sitting and we've spoken about this, but me sitting cross leg and trying to meditate, that doesn't work for me, Which is not to say it's not a great protocol, but it's not a great protocol for me. But what makes me feel good, what produces dopamine and joy and fun and kind of a version of lightness for me,

is laughter for me. Is silliness for me is connection and love, And you know, so I think that in the middle of all of this, you know, this kind of silliness that we have on here, and the inappropriateness and the funny kind of videos that you put up of me being a dickhead talking about people sheltering under my nose when it's rain and you know, and then people going, oh, you know your noses all right, I'm like, fucking no, it's not whatever. You know, it's all just fun.

But we can't, you know, there's got to be there's got to be a pendulum swing, you know, And so too, even with personal development. Yeah, we want to think better,

do better, be better. We want to make better decisions, you know, look after our health, optimize our da da da da da, live in line with our values and all that, of course, but also some days lie in the bed and watch Netflix do that, just fuck around, you know, just some days do nothing much, some days eat a bit of cake, some days have a beer. Like it doesn't We don't need to be these personal development robots on this constant linear improvement path because that's

just one completely fucking unrealistic. And two, you know, like you've met and I've met people who are so obsessed with personal growth, that they've just developed a new addiction.

unpack and the one that I'm about to unpack. Sorry about the noise of the paper, because I'm about to write while I talk is very much just my version of my interpretation of my encounters with people from the observer point of view. That is me observing them and me watching them and me knowing them and me understanding them and interacting with them. So there's that the observer, and then there's from me the experience or the creator

of my own experiences. And I think in a way, and I'm sure we could come up with many different models that kind of explain the same concept. But if we're speaking in metaphors, I think the metaphor is that we all have a door that kind of you know, in many situations we keep closed. That is, there's just me. Nobody's going to know this me. I'm keeping the door closed and there's only me on this side of the door. So I call that version of me secret me, the

me that nobody gets to know but me. And then from there we open the door to varying degrees to reveal an amount of ourselves to the world. And you know how much we do that is really an individual thing. So let's start from the top down. We'll come back down to secret you. So at the top is what I call public you, and public you is and then I want to know where you sit on these tip and how wide you open the door and what that is based on for you. But public you is just

the one that that's you. That's the you that everybody sees. That's the you at the supermarket that talks to the bloke or the lady who's doing the register if you do that, or the you know, the uber driver that you jump in or whatever. That's the one that there's no you know. I mean there's a filter, of course, but there's that's the you that you're happy for the world to see. And then then when we close the

door a little bit, we get personal you. And personal you is the one that probably close friends and family, I reckon this could be five to twenty people get to know personal you, where they know stuff about you, they have insight into you, they have experience of you. They have a level of connection with you that most people don't have and most people don't have access to.

So that could be a few people. You know. It's like I look at the Crab, my training partner, God bless him, and I reckon he's one of those people that there aren't too many because he's quite you know, the crab quite well, like he's a beautiful human being, but he's not the most vulnerably open or emotional. So I reckon in his personal kind of version of the personal version of him. There's maybe five people I reckon. I reckon I'm one of them. You know I might

not be. I think I am. For me, I'll tell you about me after we hear about you. So public you, personal you, private you, private you. I reckon as generally one or two people. So private you could be your mum, It could be your dad, It could be your partner, brother, sister, It might be a few people. Often it's one or two. And then secret you, that's the behind the door you. That's the you that you don't want anyone to see

for whatever reason. Secret you, and only you get to know that person, understand that person, and experience that version of you. And then a recent addition to this little

kind of model is future you. And future you is the you that you aspire to be, the version of you that you would like to be for yourself, based on your values, your beliefs, your goals, your intention, what you would like your life to be, and also yourself for others like as my mum and dad get older and more vulnerable, there's a version of me that's emerging,

and there's shit coming up. There's things happening that I realize, Oh I'm things that I've never had had to do or think about I now have to do and think about. And it's like it's almost like an emergent component to the totality of me, you know, because I've been a single bloke most of my you know, like in that well my whole life. I've been in relationships, but I've

never been married. And and but now all of a sudden, I have parents who are becoming increasingly dependent on me for a range of needs, which is absolutely okay, And then you know, it becomes less of me and more of them, you know, So that moving forward, I want to be future me. I want to be that where as much as I can, for as long as I can, i am. I am basically making their life somewhere between,

you know, okay and great. So that's it. So it's public you, personal you, private youth, secret you, and future you. And I just wonder like, what do you think or firstly, for you, Tiff, what do you think are the variables or the determining factors in terms of how wide you open the door with people?

We have these parts and experiences we might share. But I don't like calling them versions because it brings up that idea of the facade, like the Tiffany Cook that existed until she was thirty. It was a facade that had a secret she hadn't really dealt with. And so yeah, that's I.

that's childhood sexual abuse. So that's a consequence. So this, so I think, when, but what I would say about when we share, they're out secret us or riv at us openly. And I've had this conversation with a lot of people. Some I think that we need to be self aware and really understanding of where we are at when we share it, and that it's not a burden to others, but it is. It is a place of connection,

understanding and inspiration. So I can say this happened to me, which is a heavy topic, but when it's said to people, they can go, oh, wow, me too. There's light at the end of my tunnel, or I'm not the only one, whereas there's sometimes people can be at the very beginning of their sharing and they're not healed and they're hurt and they're angry, and it lands with other people and there's this expectation that the other people they're not getting inspired.

They're kind of having to hold this space and go what do we do with this? This is dark and heavy?

you know. And I think like this is you know, we've spoken a few times, and we won't open the door too wide on that. But you know that Abigail Shreier, the author who wrote Bad Therapy, essentially, she wasn't saying that talk therapy is bad. She was saying that talk therapy isn't always the best thing for every person in

every situation. And there might have been a time where I don't know where you might have opened the door, or you might have revealed that experience to the world or to someone and it might not have produced a good outcome. But you know, you don't know, do you. And it's like that's why I mean, this is a great conversation because I think it highlights the fact that there are no fucking absolute rules to this stuff. It's not like, oh, did you have this happen? All right?

Here are the five steps? You know, you know, this is how you grieve, all right? There's a chart put it on the wall, you know, first seven days and then day eight to fourteen. It's like it doesn't It's like it's like the fucking food pyramid. It's like how do you get strong? It's like, well, who for whose body? Who's mind, Who's life, who's genetics? Whose experiences? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And that's why I think like leaning in and feeling what you feel. But like you've spoken a lot about

doctor Bill. Now I think hard of you, correct me, because I do not know and you do know. But I think part of the progress and the I guess the growth that's come through your work with him has been at least as much about just who he is as a person as the actual technique of therapy.

therapist self seen, they've been all very, very different. So you've really got to figure out I guess what and at different times, at different times you need to talk and sometimes you need to do some of those weird

woo woo somatic get stuff out of your body. Do you deal with nervous system I reckon, I've still got a lot of somatic stuff to resolve, like where my nervous system sends me into an unconscious spin and then you can't talk therapy yourself out of that because because that just takes place, and then our little reason making machines in our head just go and tell a story. Hmm.

it was probably ten years ago. And I mean not falling apart, but just like fucking shorter breath and like and sweaty hands, and I don't like I don't like it, so I have it only how we all have these little protocols and habits and rituals, right, So if I'm doing a gig, this is what happens. Like I've done the last couple of weeks a gig in conference centers where you go and generally they'll go, well, Craig, you're

on at nine point thirty. We want you to Sometimes I'll say we want you to do a sound check at eight, which is quite silly because you walk in and go check one, two, and it's like anyone could have done that. The microphone's working, and so are the speakers. But anyway, I think it's because they like to make sure you're in town, you've arrived for the event. But I do that. But what I don't like is when, which is nobody's fault, it's just something I've got to

deal with. Is when let's say you're talking at nine point thirty, So you get there and you walk in the back at nine point fifteen and Brian puts on a lapel mic and then you look down and you go, all right, well, I'm on in nine minutes. Cool, and then I go I'll be back in a second. I generally walk out of the room and I'll walk three hundred meter it is one way, three hundred meters the other way. Then I come back and I'm now I'm on in four minutes. But sometimes they just go on

and on and on. So you're standing at the side anyway, I was meant to go on it, let's say nine point thirty, and at ten to ten, I'm still not on, and I'm just like, you can only peek.

a complete fucking idiot. I know anyway. So I do five seconds in, five seconds, hold, five seconds out, five seconds hold. I do that for about ninety seconds, and I feel my whole body just calm down. I feel my heart rates slow, I feel my sympathetic nervous system just calm, calm the farm just kick in. I could you know, I mean, you don't know, but I literally

felt the adrenaline. It feels like I felt the adrenaline just kind of disappear, and my whole emotional and psychological and physical state went from like elevated in a bad way to calm in a good way. So, yeah, you're right, there are some things that we can't just think our way out of in the moment. We need to do

something to create that physiological shift in the moment. And whether or not that's box breathing or meditating or fucking you know, going and punching a heavy bag like you might for one minute, or lying on the floor and cuddling your dog. Right.

to pull on my strings. And then I get there and my opponent's changed anyway, so then it's I'm fighting a chick ten kilos heavier, all right, all right, whatever. But I remember being in this in the side room. I'd got I thought of my very first fight and I remember having like red jelly beans before get blood sugar, like, get ready. I'm in there and I'm psyching myself up. Do you reckon? Tiffany hook needs any psycing up already, So so I get in the ring, total adrenal dump.

I was like, oh God, yes, so I've cooked it. I've cooked this. I've just burnt the motor out. It was such a I was like, that was a silly thing to do. You needed to calm down. The body was producing all the adrenaline and nor ap nephyn that you needed, and you've gone and jabbed more in there with your mind crazy.

If you're a level of arousal is like one hundred meter Olympic finalist right in the on the track, so nine and nine point seven seconds of glory, but you're about to go and do a ten k run. Well, it ain't gonna work. Yeah, that's so what happened? Did you get?

that's what happens in somatic. This is when I talk about sematic stuff in therapy. This is what happens when you have a sematic response and you dissociate or you and then we're in a dissociated state. You agree to things, or you let things happen, or you behave in certain ways, and then you step away from that, look back and go the fuck have I doubt? Like why am I letting this happen? It's very it's like you against you. It's really confronting.

that's what I say. When like this level of dissociation, people pleasing someone asks, and even just in a work sense, leaves asks for something, I'm like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, whatever, whatever whatever, until I walk away, And then that when the body relaxes, I'm out of that situation. I'm like, why did I agree? What do I agree to things that aren't the best for me. I've talked to doctor

Bill about this. Children that experience that in childhood don't they often have the same experiences in adulthood because they don't their body. They don't understand red flags, they don't understand boundaries. Boxing was appealing to me because there's clear boundaries I can get in a ring. I know the rules. The rules are clear. I don't make the rules or set them so I can enforce them. In life, setting boundaries is really hard, and in adulthood, I've myself in

situations that my mind boggles. I look back and go, how could you have not seen that that was going to happen and happening right under your nose? And it's confronting. So and as each experience happens, I think it has made me more and more have my walls up and fear. And so what it ends up is a lack of trust in self, which is really hard because when you don't trust yourself, I mean, you can't trust anybody because you're the one, You're the person.

make to trust somebody or something else? So tell me about how you and it could be women or men, and it could it could be you know, business life, money, relationships, intimacy, anything. How does that work?

learn from him. And then when you kind of accepted me in that world and said yep, you can come, and you know, I was doing some volunteering at your events, I was like, wow, how lucky. And there was this almost that validation of I'm so lucky. Oh wow, wow, you know. But then I think there's that unconscious awareness of why. And then when we worked together, I think that came up a lot. And I don't know how much you felt it, but I know that when we went from me just helping out to you're a part

of the team and we'll pay you. Now, we'll pay you and you can you can do some work with us, Yes, there was a shift in me and I was like, what's this all about? But I found there was this layered expectation. What does he want from me? What does he want from me now he wants and I had this dichotomy of I am giving so much, I want to do so well, and then also he just wants to take what he's just going to want to take

from me. You know, I've thought good people have come along before to be on my team, and they've really done bad things. So if I thought they were good people, maybe I'm thinking Harps as a good person and maybe it's not. What if I'm wrong? And I asked you once, maybe a year or two in do you trust when we were having a deep mail do you trust me? Do you trust me? And you said yes. I remember thinking, well,

why why does he trust me? When because I knew, I still had walls up, and I'm like, why would you trust me when I know I'm hard to get to know and I'm not giving you and I'm being a little bit elusive at times. So that challenged me as well. And thank god you did trust me.

need perfection. I need authenticity, and you know, for you, sometimes you like what I do like about you as you essentially go, I'm having come of a day. I don't know why, whereas most people would go, oh yeah, all good, all good, but I know it's not all good. So you're lying to you and you're lying to me. So just I'm having a shitty day, and I go, cool, okay, can I do anything? You're like nah, I'm like all right, Well, if you have a revelation and you need something miserable, prick,

I'm over here, you know, So it's all good. Like this is the you know, like there's a couple of ways and this is going to say I've never said this ever. I've never said this to you either, So this is big, right, and it's not about it. It's just people might find an interesting. So there's you, the person that I even care about and know and want to succeed and like for me. You know how I said to you we're talking about recently. I think I said to you. I definitely said it on a podcast.

It's like I used to say to my trainers, don't pretend to care, really care, like actually care. So I know that that for me to be really living in alignment with my values, I need to want you to do great as much as I want me to do great. Right, And that's not always easy because we are selfish and I'm selfish, But as much as I Craig Harper have the capacity to, I genuinely want you to succeed and thrive. And if that means that eventually you do way better

than me, I still want that, right. So there's that there's that art where you you care about people, and I care about you. How your dad is? Like? You care about how my dad is? You know, how's your dad? Can I do anything? I'm like, how you know what's going on? How's you know? When you know when Coach passed away? You know that was fucking horrendous. I can't even imagine for you because you know she was your child,

and then it hurt me to see you hurt. You know that, you know, like for me that tells me how much I care about you is that I didn't want to see you in pain like you know. So there's all that, and then there's the other, much more practical component, whereas I go, well, if I'm just being real, tif's pretty good at about twenty things that are of

value to me. So there's a practical component, and it's like, I'm valuable to you too, Like I've helped be your brand, your currency, I've given you exposure that you wouldn't have got, blah blah blah blah blah. But at the same time, you've done all that and more for me, right, So this is the beauty of Like when people think that a strategic alliance can't coexist with an authentic friendship, it's

not true. It's because on a practical level, you bring skills and attributes and qualities and talent to the you project that I do not have and Melissa doesn't have, but you have it. Melissa brings stuff that I don't have. I bring stuff that you too don't have. You know. So, But at the same time, in the middle of all of this collaboration and this synergy, can we be good humans?

And the answer is yeah, you know, and it's like that, but like for me that I know we're getting deep now, but that truly walking the talk that like not just the shit that you say on a podcast, not just the you know, the public persona and the whatever and the you know, what are your values and I but actually, like when no one's looking doing that, that's hard. And if anyone says it's not hard, they're not doing it properly.

Because it is so easy to be selfish and self centered. Yeah, you know, and that's that that for me, it's that having like what makes it easier for me is because I do genuinely have a purpose that is bigger than just me and that doesn't kind of go away that that purpose and those people and the needs. So you know, but how do you feel talking about this stuff publicly now? Because it would have terrified you ten years ago? I imagine.

that's interesting. I'm just such a big advocate for talking about your stuff, sharing it and in the right way obviously, But I don't know. I don't think we can grow without doing that, and I don't think we can connect. Like for someone who struggled with connection and being real and being open and being seen, I mean, that's my therapy,

so I welcome it. And if for some people that looks like oversharing and being the center of attention, what I'd grapple with is because of that lack of trust and that independence and that self preservation, it leans me into feeling disconnected and selfish. So I want connection more than anything. I want collaboration, but that relationship with trust and it up against what's previously happened at times prevents that.

So sometimes I feel both lonely and selfish, like you're a lone and selfish, that you're a self fulfilling prophecy. And I'm still trying to figure out how I really overcome that.

and I've said this to you. You know, I'm twenty years nineteen years older than you, and I think you know, it's like you're especially because you know you've really only been doing this for five years, you know, like where you've been in this space of where you've really opened the self awareness door and changing your life and your thinking and habits and then influencing others and having a public platform, like in the context of my life, you've

been doing it for five minutes and you're any very good, So you know, now speaking and very good. We started the show with a couple of promos. Don't forget everyone, Bendigo, Melwyn, Malula, bar Jumbo, go to my sidecocarba dot net. But Tiffany and Cook also is running a little kind of program that sounded condescending, a great, big, fucking, a huge program,

fucking the program of programs. So if you want to get punched in the face or learn how to punch someone else in the face, tiff how do we do that?

really it's amazing. So and also so that starts on eighteenth for four Sundays in Port Melbow and next Sunday I'm going to do a free anyone can rock up and do it. Taste a one hour session at probably eleven thirty. So go to my website and send me an email or something if you want to come and just do a bit of a learning overview, connect, throw some punches, learn a bit of technique.