Good a team. Welcome to another installment the You project. Yesterday had the amazing Tammy van Wissa, who regaled us with stories of swimming all over the world and ducking fucking logs and snakes and having ongoing battles with infections in the Murray River and swimming the English Channel multiple times, and it was a great chat. We're back now. We're just finishing the conversation, So welcome back, Tam.
Oh so good to see you again. Into be Beck. Thank you for having me.
Oh it's like it's like we only stopped chatting minutes ago. Really, I know, it.
Really does feel like that.
Oh my god. All right, so let's continue the chat. So we got all the swimming stuff. What do you do now? Like, what does life look like? By the way, happy birthday? So what is So your birthday is the twenty third as we're recording this, of course it's still the twenty second. I was being silly everyone, but this is part two. And can I be really rude and say that you're fifty five tomorrow? Is that right?
No? Fifty six fifty six?
Yeah, I know. I don't even think about the numbers anymore. I actually have to do check, Oh what year was like? What an't others at sixty eight?
Yes?
Okay, yes, I'll be fifty six tomorrow.
Yes, apart from your incredibly different hair, I'm not even saying this to make you feel good. You look about five years older than when we used to hang out together and train together and work together. You look so different, so similar, I should say, like, you don't like I look at me compared to them. I look my grand like my granddad do not? I do?
So you you don't, No, you don't. Don't miss silly.
I think we're all we're all super critical of ourselves, aren't we Like it's just that's normal. But I think the same of me. I look at myself and go, oh gosh, holy is.
But you've got no fucking wringles anyway. So what do you do now? What's the what's the story? How do you feel in your days? Now?
Okay?
So I have just been through a very, very challenging couple of years. So I'm in a rebuild phase at the moment, so to put you in the picture. So rewinding the clock back to twenty twenty two and the way that that unfolded, My mother passed away very early
on in twenty twenty two. She'd had dementia Alzheimer's for seven years, and so I'd actually been caring for her and it got to a point where she was in an age care facility and so it was very very difficult look a blessing in disguise because she didn't know who I was for the last couple of years.
So that was a very tricky situation.
So that happened, and then six months later I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
So that sort of really was a big shock for.
Me, like there was a bit of the universe throwing me a bit of a curve ball that I never saw coming.
And it's funny the way things happened.
But i'd actually been to like this really awesome conference where there was a number of speakers and there was a woman who spoke and name's Kate Gail, and she spoke about her breast cancer journey, and you know, basically it was a really great wake up call because she called us all to action and said, don't forget do your checks, get your mammograms.
And of course we just come out of COVID.
I hadn't had a mammogram, and you know, it wasn't in front of mind by any stretch of the imagination, so that that actually made me do a self check. And so I went to the GP, and sure enough, within the space of a week, I was having biopsies and thrown into this world of hearing all these.
New medical terms and.
Being told that I'd need surgery and so making decisions about stectomies and implants.
And all sorts of things.
I am after the shop war off, I guess, you know, I'm kind of pretty lucky because, you know, the mindset that I'd gained from, you know, the years of marathon assuming. I've always tried to keep sort of an optimistic mindset. So I sort of thought to myself when she was explaining the options, I decided to get immediate implants put in, and I just went, this is okay, I'm going to get new boobs. I'm going to be but Kennie ready for a change.
So went through all of that, had the operation, and.
I I just asked, did you have a double mistectomy or I did? I did?
I decided to have a double I only had the lump was found in my left breast. I decided that just you know, for down the tracks returned.
Better to be sure than sorry, you've taken both off.
I don't care.
You know, it's fine. I'm not too concerned. So so that's what I went for. And as I said, and I had immediate implants put in, so I just thought, wow, I'm going to get the brand new boobs.
I'm down to my knees anymore. That's that's got to be a good thing, because.
There's a visual nobody needs.
But thank you, exactly exactly, So anyhow, but yeah, but look the surgery, you know, it was a big surgery, and yeah, and there was a few complications and things went wrong, and I ended up having to go back in for three more surgeries. I actually got an infection and the skin around the sutures became necrotic and one of the implants had to be taken out. I had set to semia. They literally raced me into theater. My drainage tube turned in a milky white color, so that
indicated set to seemia. So there was no option but to take one of the implants out.
So yeah, so it was just it was a.
Horrendous, horrendous experience, made worse because my oncologist had said to me that from the very first surgery that I needed to start my chemotherapy regime twelve weeks from the original surgery, because if you don't, it's eighty five percent less effective.
So I was on this.
I was back, you know, and of course you can't start chemo until your body is fully rid of infection.
You have to be healthy.
And I was on iv anties antibiotics every eight hours for nearly.
A couple of months. It was that bad.
Wow.
So yeah, so I finally managed to get healthy enough to get out of hospital. It was like a couple of days before Christmas twenty twenty two, and then I started my chemotherapy a couple of weeks later.
So that was in twenty last year. January last year.
Started chemotherapy D four rounds, so spaced three weeks apart.
And yeah, again, you know, just to.
Such a foreign, surreal situation to find yourself in, to be going into an oncology ward, and the just so frightening to know that they're about to put this really destructive chemical in your body that's going to get rid of all the bad stuff, but it's also going to get rid of all the good stuff.
So I actually had to take steroids like.
Leading in so you take the Why God, I know why they're banned now. I was buzzing. I was just bouncing off the walls taking my steroids. It was like a weird experience too. So it's all these new things that are happening. And I tried what they call cold cap therapy, which is you wear this like cold cap prior to starting your chemos It's part of your treatment and apparently it's supposed to help save your hair so you have less like less likely to lose your hair.
So I did that and they warned me against it because they said, no, look, a lot of people have trouble coping with it because it's really cold.
When you put it on your.
Head, you get headaches and you might need some panetiles and stuff. So I'm sitting there in the first session they've got the cap on. It's quite ironic because it's like a swimming cap and they're pumping the cold water through and they're like, how do you feel?
Are you okay? And I'm like, does it get any colder? Is this it? Like?
It's like did they not know who they were talking? Did you go bitch? Please?
This is a fucking warm like, yeah, that's hilarious. They have no idea. I had no idea, So that was very funny. But look I tried that and it didn't work. My hair started to fall out after my second chemo session.
And I have to tell you that I sat like in misery for a couple of days over that because it was like I worke up one morning and I just had I saw all that like clumps on the pillow, and you just start to touch your hair and it just comes out. And it's funny how we get so attached to her hair, well women, we get.
Very attached to her head. So I was cryed. I was so upset.
And then I finally kind of you know, got myself out of that, you know, really down part. Just I said to my daughter, will you cut my hair? So we got the clippers out and we just shaved it all off, and.
It was funny how I felt so much better after.
I guess taking back control of the situation barely changed my mindset again. So yeah, then I was a bit like, you know, who cares lost my hair? I'm going to this, but I thought, you know what, I've lost my hair. It means two things, especially the treatments working. Secondly, I'm getting closer.
To the finish line of all of these.
So yes, and.
Throughout I tried to So I tried.
To still swim, get down to the pool and exercise and walk and do a few things. It was again, you know, different experiences, because the first time I got down to the pool, I had a goal in min I'm going to sim two k's. I got in and I did two laps and I thought I was going to collapse.
I was so exhausted. Yes, but there was the stubborn.
Part of me that said, there's no way I'm getting out of this pool until I've done two k's. So I did another couple of laps, rested, another couple of laps, rested, and then sort of came back again and I was able to get a bit of momentum up. So I did my two k's and got out.
Yeah.
So its just yeah, it was an interesting experience, and of course, yeah it was good. I didn't have to wear a cap for the first time in life. I was so streamlined.
That's funny. Lower drag cow efficient. That's the upside to chemo is a lot less dragged through.
The water absolutely, and you know I got changed so quickly because I didn't have to go in the shower and do the shampoo and the conditioner and the whole thing. So bam ready at a heartbeat. So lots of positive things. So again, you know, my whole journey was about trying to you know, through Look, I'm not going to lie, and so that I was like, you know, missed positive
the whole way through. But I was just trying to always look for, you know, that little bit of light, that little bit of fun, something, something that was positive out of a bad situation.
So I got through the chemotherapy.
I went through a marriage breakdown in the middle of the chemo therapy as well. So that was when when was that That would have been February last year, right, yeah, through March, yeah, very much last year.
Yeah right.
And then of course I finished my.
Chemo and then had to decide whether to proceed with radiation because my my cancer was the stage to be they call it, which which meant early early detection, which is really good. So you know, to all the listeners out there, please go on have your checks because the sooner they catch it, the better the prognosisis at the end of the day. So I was very fortunate there. But so you know, I had to talk to the doctors and the oncologists to see whether it was worth
proceeding with radiation, and I decided to do it. You know, I wanted to tick every box, and everybody's different, but I wanted.
To tick every box.
So then it was another So I had to go through twenty five radiation treatments and that was yeah, every day, five days a week. Yeah, So yeah, it was sort of an interesting experience. And because it was on my left side. So they get you to hold your breath while they shoot the beams three and it's like a probably goes through about thirty seconds.
They do a few different zaps. So of course I.
Made the challenge, I've got to hold my breath for the whole thirty seconds, and I did, and they actually said to me at the end of the treatment that I was one of the few people that actually held their breath for the whole time, because normally.
That to stop in the middle of it. So it was interesting.
Again the swimming, I just found there were so many benefits, residual benefits from all the crazy long distance. It was that got me through the cancer treatment as well. So you finished like June last year. And so my hair, as you mentioned before, is now growing back dark. I was, you know, I wasn't full blonde. I was light brown and I used to have blonde highlights put through. But now I'm like really dark and I've got super like megacurls.
Like like you look like a different I mean other than your face, but your hair. When I knew you, your hair was very light and it was almost like we could see you from one hundred meters away with your hair. Your shock of your shock of blonde ish hair. And now can you've got like you look like a fuckingpooit, like like a spoodle? Can you say golliwog these days? I'm not sure. I don't think you're aloud to say that, but you do you look do you know who? You
look like? You remind me of Annie, you know, like there's short, curly yes. So okay, So a couple of things. My first question is, like I've known you for a long time. We haven't caught up a long time, but you and I spent quite a bit of time together, like in the gym, but also training and hanging out
a little bit. And I'm not saying this because we're on a podcast and it's convenient, but if somebody said to me and I had time to think about it, you know, with all the athletes I've worked with and you know, corporates and the general public, thousands of people, and of tens of thousands of people, and all the trainers that worked for me, and like, you are, without doubt in the top five people that I've ever known for positivity, like and not not in a you know,
like you've got your head in the sand and you're pretending there are no problems, but you are genuinely like like a tip positive. Is that who you are? Is that innate or is that something that you work to be or a bit of both.
I think it's a bit of both.
I think it really is a bit of both, because you know, as I said, I especially in the last couple of years, you know, is really I've been beaten down a lot, and I've found myself. I've learned again lots of lessons, mostly about how important it is to
have a great, a great support network. And it was so and I guess you know, for me, probably the biggest change too, was learning about my own well being and self care and to take time out because you know, when you're an athlete, you feel guilty about not doing things, like you're so driven that you're always like, this is much a do list. I'm going to get why has that done today? So yeah, I'm happy to admit that's one of my faults. I'm, you know, always wanting to
achieve a lot. So I really had to take my foot off the pedal. And do you know what if I only get out of bed and have a shower.
Today and that's okay, then that's okay if that's on my bike.
I had to listen to my body as well, and whilst you know, it's good to push it, like I said in the pool, you know, look I felt like I could keep going, so I did.
I just gave myself that recovery.
But you know, I really had to just slow down and I reconnected a lot in nature too. I found going for walks and going to the beach like this was my big recharge. I think, you know, nature's like our battery recharger and we need to just plug in and walking. I went down to lawn, I got away and I had like a week down at lawn and just walked on the beach, swam in the ocean, and I can't tell you how much that just replenished.
So I did learn a lot through it. But look, I worked to stay positive. I really do.
I honestly, I think probably part of my upbringing because my parents were very positive people. They taught me about gratitude. They helped a lot of people, so, you know, they fostered a Vietnamese family. We lived in Springvale, and so you know, they helped the a Vietnamese family, both people that have come out, so they you know that we were forever helping people. They were always help people. And again, you know, hearing my dad talk about the war and
how he grew up. Always used to say to us, if you've got a roof over your head and food on the table, you are super lucky.
You are blessed, you know. So I think sometimes we get.
Really caught up in the things we have, and so I kind of try and always bring myself back to that, like, yeah, Okay, happiness doesn't have to be about living in a big house and you know, having all the things.
It's you know, it's what you make it.
It's really your world is in here, and so you create what you want. So I think it's you know, it's been a really good I guess I've been lucky. The environment I've grown up in has really helped shape my mindset as well.
But I do work on it. I do work.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well it's it's a credit to you and you're like your energy is infectious. A couple of things before we head to all the finish line. So one of the things that I've spoken to a bunch of athletes about over the years is who they are beyond their sport, and this sense of loss that happens when people stop doing the thing that they're good at and known for and held in high regard for, you know. So it's almost like what you do becomes who you are.
It becomes your identity, your sense of self, self worth and all of that for a lot of athletes anyway, and when that stops a lot of athletes kind of don't know who they are because if I'm not doing that, and if I'm not that guy or that girl, if I'm not winning, if I'm not whatever, if I'm not competing, if I'm not breaking records, or I'm not playing Grand Finals or whatever it is. I don't know who I am. Was there any of that for you?
Yeah? Absolutely absolutely.
It is very tricky to make the transition, especially when, yeah, that is your identity, that's how people introduce you, that's help people see you. So breaking away from that and trying to find your value elsewhere it's really really difficult. And as I mentioned before, I think it's done a lot better now because athletes are prepared while they're still in their athletic career. You know, they're transitioned a lot better. But back back in my day, there was nothing, so
you kind of discover all of that yourself. So again, you know, I was super lucky. A lot of my stems, like the Maury was about raising awareness about the water quality, so I did transition into doing quite a bit of environmental work there with the federal government. So I actually met with the Prime Minister after I finished the Murray swim and spoke about, you know, what I'd experienced firsthand.
So there was a few things going on that help me transition there that was still related back to my swimming. So but it was I guess, and an easy and easing into it. And also that the speaking, and I did a bit of swim coaching as well, because I have a swim school.
So I love I just love helping people.
I just you know, I love being able to pass on what I've learned, the knowledge that I've garnered, and you know, whether that be about mindset or the physical part about swimming, is really lovely to help people. I think, you know that really that really fills my bucket. So yeah, so that's made it easier. But yeah, look, it is. It is a tricky thing to do, and I think because it's just it's your whole life, for say, man, like that's all you're doing in your training, that's all you are.
So yeah, you.
Do you still have a swim school now?
I do. Yes, Paul's had a swim land in Mary Warren.
Yeah, yeah, cool, what about this kind of like that, like right now more than ever understandably, you know, we try to protect to our kids, make sure they're safe mentally, emotionally, physically safe of course, but I guess sometimes you know, like I always say, life doesn't give a fuck about your feelings right now, if you're ten or twenty or thirty or forty, life still doesn't care about your feelings. Mum and Dad might, but life doesn't. Right, So we
know that bad things happen to good, good people. And what's that balanced tend between looking after them but letting them experience a level of discomfort slash pain because you know, becoming an elite swimmer is painful, Like it is not fun, like the training, the competition. It is physically painful. How do you I mean, do you ever think about that? Because it you know, even with me, I have to really be careful about what I say because some people like, oh,
you're fucking brutal. I'm like, you think I'm brutal, Wait till life kicks you in the dick, right, yeah, wait till you guess breast cancer? Like tell me then if I'm brutal, I'm not brutal compared to cancer. I'm just fucking trying to pull back the curtain on what's probably going to happen. How do you navigate that? Or it's not something you think about?
So I actually do think about it. But this is going to sound really weird.
But the pain and the hard work was like I loved that, Like I actually really enjoyed that I thrived in that, Like that's something that I miss, to be honest with you, like being able to push yourself to
that level. And I think it was because of I was in a squad environment and I think with really good people again just made me understand what a great team we had at that time and the people that I had around me, because I think in our last journey with everything, you know, it's partially about your environment.
So it's the you know, it's your support people.
What they say that you're the sum of your five closest friends, you know, and that's that's so true looking back, Like my best friends are still from those days, like from squat days, because we went through hell together, but we would push each other and we would laugh about it afterwards.
And so yeah, so I think.
That that's sadly missing today because we have become you know, this wrapping cotton wool society.
And I even think.
About my parents, like, you know, when I first got my driver's license, you know, you know, I'd be off driving around and didn't have mobile phones.
They couldn't keep track of us.
And now you know, keeping tabs on, doing tracking devices and everything. It's such a different mindset. It really has changed. So I think life's always about a balance. There are lots of good things about technology, but you know, getting back to that old learning that you've got a lot learn to love pain and discomfort.
You've just got to learn.
To find that place where you sit with it and no that that's where the growth happens, and that's where you get your greatest satisfaction, because honestly, it's not about when I look back on all my assumes, it's not about getting to the finish line that's super important to me.
It's about all the things I had to do to get to the finish line, the kind of person that I had to become to get to the finish line, what I had to push through, you know, and the help that I received from my team that got me that little bit further as well, that helped me get that mindset to push through. So that's where the value is. Honestly, there's value in that, and I think that's something that's missing.
Yeah, I do too. I mean, it's I get it. But at the same time, when we've got kids who are playing sport, but oh we're not scoring because we don't want anyone to feel like a loser, I'm like,
are you fucking kidding me. What's going to happen when your kid gets out of this little synthetic bubble and they step out into the world where there are winners and losers every day, and there is pain and there is pleasure, and there are peaks and drafts, and there are people who want to undermine you, sabotage you, fuck you over. You know that's not going away. So let's let's not put them in, you know, the bubble wrap
until they're thirty. Let's not. Let's let's expose them to a bit of reality so that they might develop some resilience and some awareness and some you know, let's not throw them under the bus. But at the same time, let them score the fucking football match for God's sake.
Absolutely, absolutely, no, that's just ridiculous.
I agree with you. It is.
It is about gradually exposing them. You know, I do understand the other side of the coin. But you know, there's ways that you can expose them gradually to things and let them fail and let them experience that, because they are life lessons and it's only going to get harder down the tracks. As you said, you know, if life hasn't knocked you down yet don't worry. It's coming, you know for all of us. Somewhere along the truck. You know, there's you're going to lose someone. You know,
you're probably going to go through a health crisis. There are things that are going to happen in your life that are going to knock you for six And whether you've got the tools to deal with that, well, you know that all depends on how much resilience you have and how much you've been exposed to it.
And if you can start by being exposed.
It's exactly like training, you know, it's about exposing you in small doses.
You know, push the.
Envelope a little bit today, will push it a little bit more tomorrow, and a little bit more the next day.
That's how you build up the resilience. That's how you build muscle.
Yeah, how do you get strong? You work again though resistance. How do you build skill competence? How do you perform under pressure? Well, you perform under pressure in training. And then when the game comes, all the race comes. How you just quickly our last one? How are you now? How's your body? How's your health? How's your energy?
My body's good? My energy is good. I mean it's not. I wouldn't say it's at one hundred percent. But again I'm I'm learning.
About how to manage my body differently now post surgery because I've still got a health wise, cancer wise, I'm good. I actually have to have a blood test in the next couple of days. I have six monthly checkups. But I'm in a mission, so that's a good thing. Long term, there's a few small hurdles to overcome, just you know, as a result of the surgery. So I'm still working on strengthening up different chest muscles and trying to explore whether I can swim properly again. So I can swim,
but it's just different, changing movement. Yeah, So I'm working on that. So that's my next adventure is getting back in that order and seeing what I can do. Got a few different limitations, but you know, I'm working at how to work around those and get myself back to that good place again and be fully functioning.
That's amazing, Tam, You're awesome. You're an inspiration. I love that I have you in my life. Although we don't catch up, I appreciate you sharing some of you with my audience. And let's go and have a coffee, shall we?
I love that. That'd be amazing. Let's do it.
Let's do that, Tammy van Wissa. How do you want to point anyone towards anything like your web site or books or speaking. How do people connect with you? Follow you? How do they do that?
Well, they can do that on this amazing technology called Instagram. And I do actually have the very it's dinosaur now the website I've got Tammy Vanwisa dot com, so that's probably the best place to go and land if you want to learn more about my speaking or get in contact with me.
So that'd be fantastic.
Thank you for that pleasure. If you want to get your team pumped and inspired and focused from the best, just hit her up. Hit her up. I'm the second best, but she's the best. She's the goat.
Thanks Tammy, Thanks Grego