#1569 You & Your Environment - Mary Van Lambaart

somewhat inconsistent with my running. But you know, I don't want to run too much or too far because I want to hold onto a bit of muscle, and also doing mountains of running when you're sixty is not awesome for your skeleton, but a bit of running it's good, you know, the old six year old joints and shit. But I went. I put on a little running shoes, my little high performance running shoes before because I'm a fucking I'm a ninja, I'm stealth. I just moved through

the urban landscape like a fucking movie character. Anyway, I put on a little special running shoes and I stepped outside and it was raining, so I stepped back inside like a big baby, and then I went, what the fuck? Then I just went and ran in the rain for about I don't know, two k's, no three, two and a half k's like just a fifteen minute plot. But I've got to tell you. I ran in just a T shirt, shorts and runners, obviously, and I fucking loved it. One of my favorite things being a kid, which I

don't know why. I was a weird child. I was an only child. I spent probably too much time alone. I had some really quirky fucking things that I did. When I said, but I used to love running in the rain, and I still love it. I love it.

I was thinking, the weather's just too bad. We're not going to be doing too much exercise outside. And the Friday night it was absolutely pouring down and the wind was intense, and I think it was about ten o'clock or ten thirty, and you went, right, We're going out for a walk, and I was like, what the fuck? And I loved it, loved it, And then really I still do it today where I get up and I walk, and I love the days where it's you know, really wet and windy. It makes you feel alive, you know,

That's how I feel anyway. So you broke the you broke the mold. So and I've loved it ever since. So there you go.

so this is one million years ago. In the eighties, I used to work at a gym in hamp and shout out to track Side back in the old days, and Mike Thornbro my boss, the great Mike Thornber, who still lives around the corner. I think. Anyway, I started peteeing, and you know, I was the gym manager at twenty two or three, so I was managing the gym. I don't know how the fuck I got that gig. I think it was just because I could. I was a little mildly, you know, charming and likable, but fucking hopeless

from a business perspective. But anyway, also I was honest, which is also good I think in business if you're the business owner and you're employing someone. But I used to you know, my PE team was just kicking off, and every Saturday Mays I used to train what started out as four ladies who were models who worked for a company called I think it was called Panash. Anyway, they were these four girls that I used to train

two or three times a week. But we used to do this Saturday morning session at eight am, and we'd meet and we'd often be outside the gym, like we'd meet outside the gym, then we'd go train outside. We didn't train on Saturdays in and if it was rayin Haler shine with train right. And then a few other people said a few other ladies said, you know, oh, what's that group. I said, it's not really a group.

It's a private kind of session. And then the girls, the ladies who were my clients, said, you know, if other people want to join, we don't care for the Saturday because we just go and train at the beach because the gym's three AUNDI made us from the beach. And anyway, that they're not two short stories somewhat laborious stories. But that grew from these four women that I trained to up to regularly two one hundred people, right really, yeah, yeah,

yeah yeah. And we actually did a good Friday session with that group on a Friday though at the Hampton Beach and I had one hundred and thirty people and we gave the money to the Royal Children's Hospital Appeal. Right. So, but when people came to the group, I would, you know, we would intro them and I'd kind of say, everyone, this is mayors, mayors everyone, and I'd kind of give the newbies to the group a little bit of a snapshot of what was what it was about and what

they're in for. And then I would hand over to the group and I would say is there anything you want to tell meres and they would all go to meyors, your fucking waterproof, right. And so if it was forty degrees, if it was three degrees, if it was hailing, if it was rain, we would go. We would train. We would train through the tracks at the top of the beach. We would train sometimes at a footy over or a park, but most of the time we trained at the beach.

We often got in the water. We always got wet, messy, dirty sandy, and because it was so like not polished, it was so and it wasn't brutal like we hurt people or but it was you know, what was funny was because obviously the gym is in bayside Melbourne, so you've got all these Hampton Brighton and sandring Ham and black Rock people, you know, pulling up in their range rovers and then fucking you know, crawling on their hands and knees, doing leopard crawls in the soft, wet sand

and fucking loving it. You know. It's like, I feel like that's gone astray in the last decade or two. Is that that, you know, getting down and dirty and you know, getting rain on you and getting dirt on you and fucking getting in some wet, sluppy sand and

fucking getting in the ocean. And there's something to be said for you know, and I know most of us listening to this, me and you included, we live in suburbia, but just being able to you know, put your big toe back in nature by walking in the rain, or you know, going down to the beach, which I go down nearly every day in my life. I go the beach AT's eight hundred meters from where I'm sitting, and I always walk in bare feet, like always, even if I wear shoes down there, I take my shoes off, yep,

and I walk in bare feet. And there's something like, especially in these days of I know I'm talking too much. I'll shut up after this. I just had a self awareness moment. I apologize. But you know, like in these days where every second person is, you know, struggling understandably with mental health, emotional health. You know, like I thinking anxiety, depression, sadness, loneliness, isolation, disconnection, you know, confusion, blah blah blah, all of these human things.

Like sometimes the answer to psychology is through the physiology of nature. And you know, feet in the sand, feet in the ocean, body in the ocean, rain on the head. You know. I sit outside in my garden, which I love, and I have this chair and I sit, I pull the chair up to one of my trees and I put my feet on the tree. And so if I'm on the phone or I'm reading a book, my feet are on nature, you know, versus just on you know, I don't know, yeah, or just in a pair of shoes.

So yeah, for sure, there's something to be said for that.

to me. So I would sit outside. Actually, when I was talking to you earlier, I was actually sitting outside in the rain, so you know, having a coffee and looking at the ocean because I can see the ocean for where I'm at, So that's my you know, that's my space rather than being inside.

You can just see trees. And I don't know, there's something nice about But when I go, for example, to Monash, which is I love Monash, but like my cubicle, you know, like I have a cubicle, but fuck my cubicle, no disrespect, you know, like it ain't the same like me doing the exact same thing where I'm at right now versus in a you know, a one meter by six hundred mil cubicle with six hundred mil high walls and I can't see anyone and no one can see me unless

I'm standing and I'm looking at like timber or not even timber, like fucking lamanex or something. Yeah. It just like where I'm working, even if it's an internal environment, it really impacts everything from whether not like I'm happy or not necessarily sad, but like my energy levels, my creativity, my ability to focus and be present, you know.

internal spaces. But I think also those external spaces need to also kind of marry up with or reflect what it is that brings us a sense of peace but also enjoyment, because you know, you know, I've just been renovating and wall color is important for me. You know, creating a sense of warmth in the space is important for me. Having my artwork up on the wall. It brings me joy, and you know, it's like a feast for the eyes and the soul in a sense, you know.

And so creating that space of feeling like when you come to my space that it's really comfortable, and sitting on the couch is like having a hug. You know, we're sitting in the couch, not on a couch, if you know what I mean. So all of those things are really important and need time and consideration, and you know, and there's money involved, there's no two ways about that.

But and having beautiful you don't have to have a lot of things, but things that means something to you, that ground you, I think are really important.

And do you know what I noticed? This is I don't know, like i'd never been there until a couple of weeks ago when we first did our first full day with Big Pole, Big Toll. No, no, not at all. No one will figure that out. But what I noticed was when I went a first walked in and I wasn't I wasn't looking for this. So this is how effective it is. It smelt great. I'm like, what is that? It smelt great. It smelt I don't know, like almost like therapeutic, like you know when you go into those spars.

I don't know, but it smelt nice. It was warm, but not hot, right, it wasn't freezing at what like it was the right temperature the roof is really high, so it doesn't feel claustrophobic. And I was thinking, this is such a good energy space. And then I had the privilege of working there all day with you and the group, and I'm like, oh, yeah, this is an easy place to work in. And it's funny how like

when you think about being good at your job. You know, whatever your job is, whether or not it's talking to a group of humans for a day, as you and I did on that day and we're doing also next week, but you think about that, you know, people would go People think about understandably things like have you got your content, have you got your slides? What are you going to say? Do you have any skill? What are you going to wear?

You do your background on the group and all of that so and all of those things are crucial, but you don't really think about what impact the environment will have on your energy, your mindset and your performance. Like it is such a it is you created such a good space. And when I go into some companies, I'm like, this would be a fucking horrible place to work. Not because the bus is bad or not because the culture bad,

but this joint is depressing, suppressing, yep, for sure. You and I were talking about not that organization, but you went into a place we'll say once upon a time, and once upon a time when you're in this place, I won't say what, because I don't want anyone to figure it out, but you said to me yesterday, oh my god, it would be horrible to work there. Yeah.

bouncing off the table. And not only was the space very you know, the hospital like, you know, the heat in the in the space was just overwhelmingly suppressive, you know, so being able to when you're presenting as you know, you're moving around, you're talking, there's a certain amount of energy.

Your body's sort of on alert, you know, because you're you're also taking in what's happening in the room and the conversation and being switched on all the time, so you're running at a particular level and your body is at a different heat, you know than somebody sitting down. And I found that after I'd finished being there, after a couple of hours, I was utterly exhausted, but I felt like I lost three kilos in weight because it was just oppressive, the weight, the heat was just awful,

and the environment was just too stark and intensive. And so when I come back to what sort of environments do you want to create, and when you're tackling some issues that may have emotional attachment to it, it's not the most optimal environment to be able to have a sense of you know, psychological or physical safety. It felt like you had to be on alert and you know, almost vibrating in a sense of anxiety and streps because

it was so intense, so intense. So, yeah, environment is everything and was everything even when I was teaching, you know, having the classroom, you know, at a particular temperature, having it a certain lighting in the room. You know, what did the room look like for the children to come into and four parents to enter into. What did we do in the space to make it beautiful? What was

their contribution to that space? All of those elements. To feel a sense of, you know, being relaxed and being calm and being supported is crucial, crucial.

of my total clients were women. Now, a lot of the women that I trained were not traditional gym goers. They just got referred to me because they wanted to, you know, get in shape whatever that meant changed their body in some way. Right, Yeah, So I had all of these women who were not and blokes, but most of like were not. Then I was twenty five, twenty six and I was, you know, fucking buzzing, But a lot of my clients were fifty. They weren't me. They

weren't a version of me. They didn't want to be me, and I don't blame them. So I'm working with a lot of people that are somewhere in the ballpark have double my age. They're not natural gym goers. They're not athletes. They don't want to be on the bodybuilding stage. And they would come into the gym, men and women, and it wasn't while they wanted to be there, and I

could kind of make it okay for them. It wasn't their natural habitat and it wasn't a place that they loved to be because it was very testosterony, right, And a lot of the gym equipment was black or gray or black and gray, so metal frames, gray, black whites, you know. So it was quite dark and there wasn't a lot of it wasn't very enticing it. There wasn't

a lot of color. And so anyway, I when I set up Harper's the first, you know, my first gym or Pete Studios, really, I bought all of my gym equipment and I had it all powder coat it, which is what they do to metal, not yet which different colors. So I, lily had all the frames. I had pink, I had purple, I had light blue, I had white, I had yellow, I had orange. So if you walked up it to my gym, it looked like fucking a

child's play center, you know. So all the upholstery was black and all the Obviously the carpet was the same, but it was just like people like, oh my god, hell like it didn't look like a traditional dark, stark intimidating. And because most of my clients were women, I mean, I'm happy to train in a fucking dungeon with no mirrors and no noise and dust, right' I thrive in that shit. So I didn't need it, but my clients loved it, and I made them just you know, we're

still in a gym full of gym equipment. It just happens to be somewhat atypical from the norm. And that was one of the things that people would say, I love the colors. I love the colors. It didn't particularly go It's not like there was any rhyme or reason. Yeah, it was never going to win a fucking award for the daycoor or for the It's never going to be in home beautiful, but sucho logically, But you think, as an employer or a coach or anyone, I think, I think,

how can I create a space? And I did a thing with fern Wood, not last week, the week before, and the title of so, by the way, Fernwood, I'm not just saying this because they pay me to do gigs, but I really like them as an organization. There's no perfect organization, but they do a pretty fucking good job, right.

And I had to do a keynote called Irresistible Culture, building an irresistible culture, and like I spoke about just creating a place, whether that's a place, a physical place, a room, a gym, a center, or an organization that in general terms, people want to be in. You know, Like my question is not even with my trainers, it didn't used to be necessarily how great was the workout, although that matters, you know, anatomy and physiology and did you set the bike seat at the right height? And

did you teach them how to do the deadlift? But all those things are really important, But what overrides all of that is, Hey, do they want to come back? Do they like this place? Do they feel, if not comfortable, heading towards comfortable. And you can ask that same question, like with your space that you have where you bring people into for training and teaching and coaching and all of those things. Do people like being in the space?

Do they want to come back? And part of that's you and your energy, but also part of it, and I think that's a really overlooked variable in building culture and build an environment that people want to be in.

those sorts of things. So you know, finding the right spot has taken some time to land here, but it's a nice space to actually work in. Energetically, it's a nice space to be in.

effective you are, whatever you want to call it. But the working experience for me anyway, is what you're wearing now. I, as you know, under sufferance, will put on fucking jeans and boots. That for me is like black tie, right yea. But even then I'm in a black T shirt and like, right now, I'm going to show you. I'm going to

lean back. I just lifted up my barefoot like I spend my life in shorts, T shirt and bare feet like I only I would never put on a pair of long pants in my life unless I had to, which is not to say they're bad. I just am not comfortable in them. I am like, if I come and sit in here in a T shirt or a single that PERI shorts, bare feet, that's my happy space, that's where my body feels good. But if I had to go to a place each day, and this is why, and I've shared this many times, I realized when I

was twenty ish that I didn't want a job. I wanted to work, but I didn't want a job right, I didn't want to work with someone like if I had been brought in some reality where for whatever reason, I had to me personally put on a suit and a shirt and a tie and fucking black leather shoes and drive into an office and oh I couldn't have done it. I mean if I guess if I had to. But you know, but that and I think that's understanding, like and it's not wrong either, by the way, it's

just like, well, that doesn't work for me. If I had to, I could do that. But you know, like I always used to think, how can I Like, I'm not lazy. I want to work, but I just want to do the thing that I want to do, keep fully realizing that there'll be shit that I need to do that it ain't fun. But for the most part, so I basically just built my own career, like I

just built this. Like there wasn't personal training, there wasn't a course, there wasn't an accreditation, there wasn't insurance, there wasn't an industry. But I knew that people would pay me back then like forty bucks an hour, which seems fuck all now, but it was in six I was the king. I'm like fuck.

what gives them a sense of calmness. And you know, if that means that they're wearing a tracksuit to get the job done, so be it. So you know, at the end of the day, it's not what they're wearing that matters the most, it's what are they doing? And how am I whether I'm in an educational role or whether I'm in a leadership role working with people, how can I support that person to get the best potential outcomes for them in the role that they're doing, So,

how can I invest in them? What's my service to them in order to do that and encouraging them to have a beautiful space. And you know, if I know myself, when I'm really busy and my desk becomes cluttered. It is the least desired space for me to sit right right, you know, I don't want to go near it because I don't like it. I like organization. I like things to be pulled away. I like a clean space to be at. I want to be able to see all the other beautiful things that are around me, you know.

I don't want to sit in the middle of a mess. You know. And sometimes psychologically, depending on how busy it is, that sometimes happens at your desk, it's hard to come back to face it.

being challenged. Obviously, I mean obviously with the way that we work in terms of technology now, but moreover comma just with yeah, like the idea of well let's have a space where if somebody wants to go sit in a bean bag with their laptop in a pair of shorts and T shirt. You know, Fuck, let's are they productive? Are they doing the work? Are they? Well, yes, we'll let them sit in the fucking bean bag. Like why do we all have to be designated into fucking cubicles

or boxes in a suit? Like? Is this optimal for creativity and productivity and enjoyment and culture and connection? Is this the way that humans work best? Fuck? No, All right, that doesn't mean we've got to go buy one hundred bean bags, but maybe it means we've got to go Look the way that we have done this for some people is great or some is kind of acceptable, but for some people it doesn't work. And I mean we see that not just in the workplace, but in education,

you know. And that's not throwing the education system or any teachers under the bus. You've been a teacher most of your life, but it's understanding that. And I know on the macro level with big organizations this is harder to execute, But in small to medium sized businesses, I reckon, you know, if I was going to go start and I employed five hundred people. If I was going to start a new business, I would do some things quite I think I did not a bad job, but I

fucked things up for sure, that we all. But I would now. You know, It's like Tiff who works for me in a part time capacity right now. She generally sits in on or edits three or four podcasts a week of my seven now, and she gets paid a set weekly wage, which is not terrible, not amazing, but it's enough. Now if she happens to do all of the work for the week on Monday morning and finishes by two pm, and then she does nothing for the next six and a half days, but she's done the

editing or whatever she I like. I don't care how it's done. I just care. I don't care if you do it all on one day and you get paid a week's wage for that one that I don't care because all I need is this stuff done. All I care is that you do it well, Yes, how you do it? Why would that bother me? If it bothers me because you're sitting in a bean bag and not at a desk, well then I'm the problem, you know, That's right.

working at home anymore. And they're up in arms about the fact that some of their employees are going away on a holiday. They're still working and they're still being productive, but they're really resentful about the fact that they're doing their work from fig or wherever they're at. And my mindset is, how does it make any difference whether they're at home or whether they're in vg, or if they're anywhere else in the world. If they're doing the work,

where they do the work, how does that matter? If they're if they're still producing and they're still doing and they're loving their life because they're able to do the work and still live a really engaging life. How am I How am I losing as an employer?

at an airport, if they're still doing the work. They're still doing the work. They're not on holidays, They're working and producing, and I.

I did a series of talks for Hewlett Packard through COVID, and I did, on average for I think it was about a year, a bit over a year. I did like one a month ish, And I was thinking, like I did. I think it was forty two countries or forty four countries at once, right, And so there was like four and a half thousand people on the call. Wow, And I was sitting not where I am now, I

was sitting in the studio downstairs. But I mean, how crazy is that is that I am I'm doing a live gig literally wearing what I'm wearing now, T shirt, shorts, bare feet to four and a half thousand people. Yeah, a very large organization. And I would, let's say, I would talk from eleven a m. Till midday, i'd finish, i'd sign off, we'd have a good time. I'd answer a few questions. Obviously can't answer four thousand questions, but

you know, there's a moderator or an MC. And then at twelve oh three, I'm up out of that seat and I'm in the kitchen, which is six feet away, making a cup of tea and nobody's missing out and I'm getting paid reasonable dough. They're getting the convenience of Craig harp alive into forty two or four countries, whatever it was. Yeah, they can pay me way less than if they needed to fly me too. Different, right, And you know what, the world's just different. Works, just different.

The way that we deliver things, the way that we sell things, the way that we buy things. And I think some people are a little bit trapped in tradition, and I think tradition's good to the point where it's shit, you know.

bring people together. But do you need to do it every single week? That would be questionable, you know. And I do think that we do miss some of that human interaction when we're doing zooms because people jump on and they jump off, so there's none of that sort of you know, cursory conversation that goes on either before a meeting starts or at the meeting conclusion. And you know, we become better and stronger when we've got somebody that maybe is sitting next to us that is brighter and

more intelligent than what we are. So I feel like there's a little bit that we can miss in not being connected with other people. But I wouldn't say that that has to be the definitive must be. I think there's elements for all.

it's like I live by myself. I have a studio at home, in an office at home, but I need to be around people, not all day every day, but every morning I'm at the cafe, I'm there for at least an hour and a half. I talked to people. I often sit with people, and you know, blah blah blah. Every day this which is online, of course, but also every day I'm at the gym around humans for at least an hour and a half. That like, there is

a fair bit of face to face. Even though I do love working the way that I do and I don't want to go sit in a cubicle. I would go fucking nuts if I couldn't give someone a hug, or talk shit, or have a copy with someone, or be in a room with a human. Yeah, you know, I think it's finding the you know that they say in medicine it's all about the dose. I think in sociology.

I think in sociology it's all about the dose. You know, those people that you love being with them for an hour, but four hours fucking way too much.

our audience today don't know you. So okay, before I opened the door on this conversation, give them context so they know why the fuck I'm asking you what I'm about to ask you.

bit different obviously to identify mental health issues. But I'm also and Indie, a registered INDIAS provider which focuses predominantly on the early years of child development, and you know disability supports and psychological coaching.

in a range of different ways. And I know that while you loved that everything has a used by date, and that you know, you just about killed yourself trying to save others, so to speak. But off the back of that, I just want it. So today I'm the herald son they've got. I don't know if you can

see that. No, you can't. It says I'm trying to No, it says fast book, and it's got the blue Facebook f Yeah, so it's a play on words Facebook fast Book, and it says despite suicide's body shaming and bullying, Facebook boss says, I don't think social media has done harm to our children. Now, I just I want to just chat a little bit about because you still do stuff

with schools. I know that you still work with students and in a way and also with teachers, and I won't say which school, but I know that you still do stuff and you still have an advisory consultant kind of role. So my question is, like, do I think social media is awesome? No? Do I think it's the devil? No? I mean, what I find interesting is that we want

to blame forget Facebook. It could be TikTok, it could be Instagram, it could be fucking any of the platforms, but we want to blame the platform without it all thinking about the people who are using. Like I use all of those platforms, but it doesn't fuck up my life in fact for me. Now, I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just saying my experience, well, for me, Facebook has been kind of helpful for my business, as has Instagram, as as you know an even you know, LinkedIn,

which is another platform that we have available to us. Now, yep, I'm not saying that Facebook doesn't ever do bad things or they you know, they don't have issues that they don't need to deal with or resolve. But ultimately, you know, it's just a tool that people are using, right Facebook is a tool that's human's use. Now. Human beings get on there and say horrible shit. Yep, Facebook isn't on there posting horrible shit. Humans are and Facebook is the

tool or the medium that they use right now. This is not. And I just think that it's like, you know, an Instagram will I use Instagram every day, and for me, it's a really fucking handy resource. I use this podcasting platform every day, and I'm really glad I'm partnered with Nova. Thanks Nova. You know, this is another technology, another mechanism that allows me to connect with the world. So for me, and again just my experience, Facebook is a free platform

that allows me to connect with people. Instagram is the same, LinkedIn is the same, this podcast is the same. Like I feel like sometimes we're blaming the resource or the tool while taking no personal accountability, Like what how much of it is? Like? There are there are kids that get on there and do nasty shit and say nasty shit to each other and adults of course, but there

are kids that never do that. Right, What is the what is the role and why do we want to blame the tool rather than the users of the tool or what are your thoughts on that? In general? When you think about kids having access to, you know, all of these platforms, like there's talk of them. I know I'm over talking self awareness moment, Thank you, Craig. There's there's awareness, there's awareness. There's talk about kids not being able to use Instagram tool there I think sixteen Good

luck policing that. But what are your thoughts all this?

There was none of that. And you know, I came from a big family, so it was everybody in the lounge room around one television set. And when we got to it was like we were rich by having a second television in the space, and so there was a lot more reliance on you know, making our own entertainment, either reading a book or listening to music or going outside playing, etc. So our exposure to television and you know, movie news cycles all of those sorts of things were

incredibly minimal. And I don't know what it was like you guys, but there was a rule in our house that the television didn't go on until late in the day and on Saturday mornings. You weren't lucky because you've got a little bit of time of watching cartoons in the morning. But apart from that, there was a limit on how much exposure that we had to those devices.

And then when I became a mum, and as my daughter was growing up and I'd started teaching at that time, one of the things that we would start to see with a lot of kids was that they were having televisions in their bedrooms and those kids were then having significantly disrupted sleep and we would ask the kids, you know, do that sort of survey, who's got a computer, who's

got a TV? All of those sorts of things, and the number of kids that were watching TVs until you know, eleven thirty twelve o'clock at night, and they would wait until their parents were asleep and they pop the TV and you know, watch another video was happening back in the nineties, you know, into late nineties. So you know, and now my daughter has become a mother, and you know, the kids were given iPad screens at twelve months, eighteen months. They were using screens at a very early time frame.

And at one point, educationally, there was all of this talk about that it was healthy and this is the way of the future, and we want to get kids exposed to it as soon as we possibly can. And then as an educator, you're seeing kids being so addicted to it like crap cocaine, and if you're wanting to remove that from the child, that you'd end up with this incredible significant behavior, all outburst because you're taking it often just like kids that are into gaming, same bit different.

And so the amount of exposure that the kids have got access to on the devices has significantly increased. And you know, I often say to people here when they're talking about mental health training, I'd say our news cycle significantly changed. We went from you know, morning news, midday news,

to evening news. And then Princess Diana died and our news cycle changed the day she died, and it went from morning, midday evening to news on the hour, and we were getting constant updates about what had happened with

Princess Diana, and it never moved back. And then September eleventh happened, and I remember working in the school at the time, and the new cycle went from News on the hour to twenty four hour news, and you know, our exposure to that news and obviously on September eleventh, the initial broadcast of what happened on that day wasn't

cleaned up. We had kids sitting in front of a TV screen watching people, you know, jumping from buildings, you know, And it wasn't until there was a bit of an awareness around, hey, we probably need to do something about these are loved ones that are falling, you know, to their deaths, that they actually cleaned that imaging up. And you know, we've got kids that have been impacted by what they've seen on the TV screen, let alone what's

on a you know, a device. And you know the other part around that is while parents try to put as many things into play to protect their child from content. Not all of those protective measures are doing what parents think they're supposed to be doing. And so kids being exposed to content that is well beyond the years, well beyond their level of understanding, and let's not even start on the conversation of predatory components to it as well.

And you know, when we talk about you and I, we've lived through a very different you know, lifespan of decades of not having a mobile phone. Ever, we lived through the time of when the bricks first came out and then the Nokias and all of those. The kids today have got nothing to compare that to. So psychologically

we can make a bit of a comparison. The kids today have got nothing to compare it to because that has been their life, you know, for X amount of years, is having exposure to these devices and not actually being able to see what the dangers are associated to it. You know, how it's impacting their brain, how much it's impacting sleep, how much it's influencing their own psychological view

of who they are as a person. And it's an interesting thing in your I know you've mentioned this book before because I think did you have the person on your podcast around bad therapy.

using or utilizing cigarettes. So there's nothing that's coming out around what are the dangers associated with child use and you know abuse of the use of you know, tablets and mobile phones, et cetera. So she's got a very interesting perspective on it.

It was not so much judgmental as just awareness. But the other day, I was at the cafe and I was meeting someone through the day, so it wasn't early and there was a couple who came in and I've never had a kid, so I'm not a parent, so I've got no fucking idea. But they had this kid that was screaming his ass off. I mean, I fucking they was screaming the house down. And then they put one of those clip on chairs on the side of

the table. Yep. Then they shoved him in and they put a fucking one of the what do you call it, an iPad in his hand, and he just went silent. And that was it. He went from out of control to mesmerized in five seconds. And I'm like, oh God, I don't if I was a parent, I'd probably do the same, Like, what are your options in that moment? You go, He's either going to scream the house down or I do this thing and it all stops. I mean, that's a fucking conundrum, isn't it.

don't want to deal with the tantrum. And you know, I said to them, if you don't get a handle on this before this young fellow finishes in grade four, the horse is kind of bolted, right because they get into grade five, six and there's got more autonomy, etc.

And they were like, so what do we do? Like, we don't know how to resolve the issue, And I said, well, it's quite simple, and that is that you give them some amount of time on the device and you're really clear about when that's going to happen and for how long that's going to happen, and that you might give them a warning of a timer that you know ten minutes is going to be up, so we'll pop the timer on and you can see the timer counting down. But when that time comes up, that's got to be

passed in. And they were like, no way, and I said, it's you know, it's important for kids to be able to be given some boundary around the use of the device.

And we then started talking about, so what happens when we go out for dinner and I said, well, they don't take it with them, and they were clearly almost in panic attack around the idea of not taking the device with them, and I said, well, when I had my daughter younger, we used to have a going out backpack and in that going out backpack there would be a book or there would be a coloring book and coloring pencils and other things to be able to do

at the table. But when she got to a certain age, which was around this little fellow's age, I had a bit of an expectation that she would engage in conversation because we're going out for dinner and that was a family time of being together and having a conversation, and if we're out with a group of parents, and there was a group of kids together. Well, you know, they

had coloring books and things to use. And of course their answer to me was where, Well, all of these other families are going to be taking their kids and all of their kids are going to be on devices and ours won't be. And I said, and that's okay. The world is going to keep spinning, I promise you. And I said, and I think what you'll find is

you will influence the other kids at the table. And they weren't convinced, but they went away and they followed through on the challenges that we put forward with them for the week. And they came back the following week and they said, we were really scared about going out and not taking the tablet with us. And I said, okay, so what happened? What did you do? And they said, yep, we were took him to kmart and you know, created this backpack and filled it with all things for them

to do while they were out for dinner. And she said, and in the end, initially the other kids there were on their tablets, but it didn't take them long to actually put the tablets down and actually engage in what he had in his backpack. Wow, you know, so I think some times parents can become scared of the behavior that can make them feel like they're not parenting particularly well, and they don't want to interrupt other people around them,

et cetera. So therefore they go with the easiest. But the easiest isn't always the healthiest, as we know with so many other elements.

chatty Katherine. Hey, how can people connect with you and maybe have a look at doing some mental health first aid, whether or not it's for them individually or as an organization bringing you or one of your team in How do people find you and connect with you?