I get a team. Welcome to another installment of the year project. It's Harps. Who else would it be. We hope you're having a good day wherever you are, whatever you're doing. Professor Shelley Richards. I stumbled across on LinkedIn, which I never normally do. I'm not the person who gets guests. I have a team that gets guests. But I was looking at Shelley's profile and reading what she does, and she's written a book called The November Molecule and a few other things, and I went and also she
teaches writing. I'm a writer, not a very good one. But I thought, how can I get a free coaching session? And I thought I could do that under the guise of a podcast. Hi, Shelley, how are you?
I'm great? How are you?
I'm very good. Hey, congratulations on your podcast debut. This is number one for you. Well, thanks for letting me walk you through the podcast door for the first time. Did you tell anybody that you would doing a podcast and did you get any advice from anyone?
I did so. I told a colleague of mine who's I've done a couple of podcasts, one where she kind of went in blind and didn't know any of the questions ahead of time, and another where she kind of had a list of what to expect in terms of questions, and she said it didn't go how she expected it what at all. In fact, the one where she went in blind, she said, was great, and the one where she actually knew what the questions were going to be was sort of a not so great experience.
It's really interesting, you know. I mean, I do this every day, right, so I'm and I think you and I had a brief chat the other day. And by the way, if I talk too fast in my weird Australian accent, just tell me and I'll slide down. But you and I had a conversation the other day and I said that, you know, we're six years in. We're an everyday show. And so I mean with my guests like you, I want to know a little bit about you, but not too much because I want to learn along
with our listeners. I want to learn as we go. And I probably once or twice a week I'm also on someone else's podcast and they often want to send me the questions and I go, don't send me the questions. They're like, oh, that's that's how it works. I'm like, well, I won't look at the questions, so you know, if you're going to talk to me about whatever it is I do. I don't need to prepare, like I don't need to know what's coming, you know. And all of my feedback from my listeners is that, or not all
of it. A lot of the feedback is that it's conversational and it's organic, and that's what they like. It's not this to and fro, prescripted, choreographed. Here's my question, here's shell his answer. Here's question two, here's answer to here's you know, I don't think it makes for great listening and probably not great storytelling either, right, you know.
I think you're right. Yeah.
Do you do you think that we've had a couple of people that I can't I won't mention, but we've had a couple of authors on who write brilliantly, but they don't necessarily and I'm not saying this for your benefit because I know you'll be good. I've spoken to you, but something like that.
They're very great, they're they're very good at writing, very effective, very engaging writers, but sometimes not great communicators, like verbally, like in a conversation.
Have you noticed that there's there's absolete? Yeah, what is that about?
Well, you know, when I was growing up, my dad was a writer. My grandparents on on that side were writers, and my dad whenever he had something to say to me, would write a letter. And he said that allowed him to say what he wanted to say, how he wanted to say it, uninterrupted. And so I think that's what most writers are after they want to say. You know, language is a very important thing, and word choice is
a really important thing. And so when you're talking, I think all writers go back in time and I wish I would have used this word or phrased it this way. And when you're writing, you have the opportunity to revise, and when you're you know, talking, you don't get that that chance.
Yeah, there's no editing, there's no post conversation edit, right, yeah.
Yeah.
And I think also when you want to especially if you want to have a meaningful interaction with somebody, I mean, like I really I want to talk about something that's very important to me, I guess sitting down and writing it or typing it, whatever the case is, gives you the opportunity to think through deeply and meaningfully, rather than just being in the moment interaction where you or the other where somebody might get emotional and the conversation gets derailed.
You know, right, yes, absolutely so?
Is it? Is it possible for us even as we are, you know, adults that have been thinking and you know, writing and communicating for a long time, can we become can we become not only can we become better writers? But like you, like you, you're a professor of writing, you teach writing, but also you you know, you've opened
the creative door and you've written some some fiction. Right, Is it possible to tap into our creativity later in life and discover that maybe we could write something creative, something fiction based.
I absolutely think that. I think one of the greatest things about writing is that it is what makes great writing great is timeless. And that's true for fiction or nonfiction. And so all of the things that you read in a book, like the Elements of Style, for example, you know, was true in nineteen eighteen. Still those same principles are
true today. And so when people have those principles in mind and they write enough, whether it's fiction or nonfiction, I think after a while, you develop a certain set of skills, and after a while that set of skills becomes more instinct and intuition, and you know intuitively whether or not a paragraph is great, or an opening to a story is great. And I think people that read and if you want to write fiction, I would say, read fiction. If you want to rate, you want to
write great nonfiction, then read great nonfiction. Is really the key because some people are just really great masters in the art of imitation, which a lot of great writing is. There's a lot of retelling, a lot of fan fiction out there.
So yeah, it's in the I started my PhD in twenty nineteen November, so and hopefully in the next six months or so I hand my thesis in. But I you know, I discovered that especially at that level. You know, undergrad is relatively easy, right, but but academic writing at that level is so so the opposite of creative writing. It's so bland Shelley, it's so boring, it's so uninspiring, Shelley. For God's sake.
That is absolutely true. It is dry as the desert it is. It gives me cut mouth to read it. And I tell my students, you know, you can rate, you can write great science using metaphor and analogy or you know, plugging out something unusual or unique about whatever it is that you're writing about and incorporate that in your science writing. Because if it's not interesting, people aren't going to read it, even even people in your same field won't be interested in it if it's not engaging.
And some people are just really great at writing you know, good science that's that's not dry. And some of that is journal editors who are very old school who don't like it when people sort of like you know, muck around with the status quo and use metaphor and things like that, that sort of really beef up the engagement. I think it's.
Such a pity because like when I come into and where I'm doing it is place. It's a university in Australia. There's a bunch of them called Monash University. And my lab is called the called Brain Park, which is the neuroscience and neuropsychology component, right, and it's great, and they're great, and I'm very you know, it's like I'm like an outlier. I'm like a pro academic in an academic world, right, so I'm not the perfect you know, and because I
come from. I've owned my own businesses. I've employed over five hundred people. I run companies, I do staff. I'm a corporate speaker. I'm very much an experiential boots on the ground, you know, get your hands dirty. That's me. And then you step into the world of academia, especially when you're doing a science PhD. As you know, it's
like it is, it's a lot. For me, it was like learning a whole new language, I mean, and the writing, and the writing where you've got to go oh, and obviously because it's got to be perfect, like there can't be any you know, there's no opinions, there's no there's no metaphors, there's no like, there's no storytelling, I mean
kind of. But yeah, that was for me, not even understanding the research or running the studies or interpreting the data, but actually writing it now and then out of that where I would go and talk to a corporate audience and I want to talk to them about my research because it's very relevant to you know, it's about around it metacognition, which is thinking about thinking, and metaperception, which
is understanding how other people see you. So it's all very relevant in a communication based you know, reality, where we've got to have conversations, resolve conflict, flex sought out problems, you know, work as a team. But trying to turn my research into a presentation and a story and a language that will resonate with them, you know, I think that's the science Munikita's challenge.
Rot absolutely. Absolutely. Jargon is probably the biggest stumbling block that science communicators face. And when you're talking to a general audience, people who have maybe some science background, maybe the last science class they took was in high school, but they really need to know about something like COVID or you know, the changing climate or something like that. You know, skipping the jargon and using Layman's terms is
really important. I always tell the students, you know, people, if you're using jargon people, if they can't understand it, then they can't begin to make a decision about whether
or not they believe it. You know, in order to say that they believe something, then they first have to understand it, otherwise they don't have a choice, right, And I think people sometimes distrust science because because of the jarragon, because it is, like you say, it's like a different language, and so because there's so many great science stories out there, you know, like the you know, discoveries that have been made, Penicillin a great story, you know, and get I think
that gets lost. I think some of the gatekeepers of today's science, whether it's spoken or written, have a little bit to do with that. I think once a new generation moves in, some things might change.
So I have a I have a kind of a model that I use. Tell me what you think? So I think, all right, what's the message or the idea that I want to share with them? And even if it's something like, you know, something around because my background is in exercise physiology, it might be something about you know, physiology, right, But I just think, well, I don't need to bombard them with you know, jargon and blah blah blah. How do I what's a story I can tell about this truth?
Because if I'm telling a story like, for example, I was a fat kid, right, I was a morbidly obese child. Now if I tell them about my story as being a morbidly obese child and all the social, emotional, psychological, physiological variables around that, but it's my story and how I felt, and then what you know now because I'm telling them a story versus talking about childhood obesity in
a clinical sense. Right. But because I'm telling them Craig's story, people are engaged, people are connected, people lean in, And so I think that's the challenge with whether it's writing or reading, is how do I connect with humans and make them want to keep listening or reading?
Right? I mean, I think story is that's the key. Right. Our brains are kind of wired for story. Everybody's looking for that narrative arc, that sort of beginning, mental and end. And you know a lot of times people want a happy ending, or at least a meaningful or satisfying ending
to a story. I think that is I think, you know, one of the assignments that we do in my class is I have the students choose a news story and I ask them to read that same news story across four different platforms, and then they delineate all of the similarities and differences, and they are always shocked by how different that same story can be across four different platforms,
four different news platforms. Sometimes it doesn't even sound like the same story, but it's a It's probably the assignment that comes closest to being about story because a technical writing a science writing course that I teach, but that one assignment is one that always I think stays with students for that reason because it's about a story, and a lot of them don't read the news, and so you know, just getting into the news and reading a
news story is sort of a new experience for them altogether. But I think, you know that sort of and those stories are stories that stay with them too. You know, they make a presentation and they talk about, you know, how they couldn't believe this happened or they didn't know anything about this, And I mean, I think, you know, news journalists use the power of story all the time.
So I think it's it's something that some scientists, at least some scientists that I work with, have started, you know, really latching onto. And some of them are really great storytellers, really gifted, and so some people are just gifted storytellers. And if you if you also happen to be a scientist, then you have a little bit of an edge there, I think.
When I mean, I know, you've written a few books, but in general terms, and I guess it's going to vary from person to person, but like when you want to write a book. Of course, we want to write something that's reflective ab our thoughts and feelings and stories and all of that, and we want to write something that's congruent with who we are and how we are. But at the same time, like you also want to
sell lots of books. Like, if you're going to write a book and it's going to be, among other things, a commercial venture, you want it to be distributed and sold in bookstores. You want people to read it and talk about it and recommend it. So there's a strategic there's a strategic and a commercial element as well. Right, So when you set out to write something new, do you just write the thing that you want to write about or do you think about what will be attractive to an audience.
For the most part, would I would say it's ninety percent I write something I want to write it about, but also something that I would want to read. I read a lot, and I read across all genres, and you know, I read a lot of nonfiction, and of course I read a lot of science, but I read
a lot of fiction. And so I always write something that I want to write, but I always think about, you know, is this something I would also want to read, and so you know, that's always I think in the back of every writer's mind, is this something that I would want to read? Also?
What about what about the I guess understanding the mind of the reader, Shelley, Is that just something that we that organically evolves over time? Like I know, and this is very different, But I have about one hundred thousand followers on social media, and I have this page on Instagram where I literally write things physically on my whiteboard and then I take a photograph of that and I put that meme, that message, those sentences, like it's generally
somewhere between five words and forty words, but it's handwritten. Now, if I put that on my social media versus the same message that I type, the handwritten message gets about ten times the traction. But the same words, the exact same message.
And it is very interesting, isn't it?
Isn't it? It's like the exact like word, it's the same words. But here's this is written by Craig left handed, messy Craig on a whiteboard. And here's a photo of the message on the whiteboard. Now here's the same words in just a typed post. It doesn't have nearly the same engagement or impact and it doesn't get shared. It's funny, what is fact? Yes?
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, fascinating. Yeah have you ever asked anyone about that?
I mean yeah, I mean why that is in fact? When I when I do post things on that particular platform. So that's my incident. It used to be called whiteboard lessons, but it's just called Craig Anthony harpenou right. But but yeah, and there's thousands, there's like five thousand of them, so there's you know, and they've been doing it for years. But when I put up something that isn't a whiteboard, people don't like it. They go, where's the whiteboard? Yeah?
You know what? I see your post come across my feed all the time, and they're almost always the whiteboard. I wonder if there's something about the handwriting that seems more personal and hurt felt as opposed to a keyboard.
Well, I think it's like a human did this. Like I don't know, especially in days, especially in times now, where you're like this is this person generated? Is this? AI? Is this? Is this? Like? You know, even people ask me what program I use for my handwriting, because my handwriting is actually quite neat, and I go, right, I.
Actually, yeah, I did not realize that was your handwriting. I thought it was a font meant to look like.
Yeah, yeah, no, that is literally my handwriting. And then I take a photo of the writing on the board and then I just it's almost like I bleach it, so it doesn't it just looks like a white background, but the writing is literally my handwriting. So yeah, but it's just funny. I think of that. I think about like whenever I'm trying to and whether it's talking or writing.
And I've written a few books as well. I want to get my stuff across, but I'm really interested in understanding the mindset of the reader so that I can meet their not the right word, but meet their needs or expectations as well.
Right, that is? That is a tough question. I think it's hard to understand. I guess what you're looking for is consensus and readers. You know, reading is very personal, and what one person finds great another person might think is horrible. I read a lot of book club fiction, and some of it lands and some of it I'm like, how you know who recommended this? Because it's I feel
like it's a very personal thing. So, but there does seem to be some consensus around what makes a great book and just an okay book and just a terrible book and so, but I don't think that anyone, even the greatest writers, really have an idea about the mind of the reader. And even some of my favorite authors who are like sort of like you know, automatic buys. If they published something new, I'm going to go out
and get it, you know. Sometimes I mean, you know, I might like nine out of ten books, but there's always that one and I'm like, oh, this is you know, this just wasn't for me. Well, the mind of you know, trying to figure out the mind of the reader is a tricky thing.
I think, what about what about developing a process like and not everyone has to have the same process or protocol. I tend to start with thoughts and I'll just write like it might be a word, or it might be an idea, and it might be twenty twenty disparate ideas seemingly unrelated, but they're kind of And then I'll write a sentence around that idea or two, and then I'll write a sentence around that other idea or concept, and then I'll over time It's like I've got all these
jigsaw puzzles. I don't even know what the picture is going to be, but I've got all these pieces. You know, it kind of almost forms itself over time. M what about you, do you have a process?
I am what they call in the writing world a pantser. So they talk about panthers versus plotters. So plotters are people who will go through all of the plot points and outline an entire novel and maybe spend a lot of time doing research and outlining for you know, six months or a year before they sit down and ever
start writing a thing. Where I'm the kind of person that, you know, maybe I have an idea for something I want to write, and I noodle on it for a couple of weeks and then one day I just sit down and just start writing. When I wrote the November Molecule, I wrote it during National Novel Writing Month, which is the month of November, and I told myself, I'm going to write a novel during the month of November, and
I'm not going to look back. I'm just gonna start writing and just move forward in the narrative without any rubberneckings, So no going back and looking at what this character did or what that character did, because I was what I was looking for was a cohesive narrative. And I thought, if I just moved forward in the story with the first draft, maybe I can do that. And so I wrote the first draft in thirty days and then spent
another I guess six or nine months editing it. Wow, but not with any not with any outline or anything, just some idea in my head of the main character and sort of you know, the beginning, middle, and the end I sort of had in my head in certain scenes. There's a famous story about Kate Chopin that wrote, I can't remember the name of the novel off the top of my head, but it was a banned book, and when she was asked about it, they asked her about
the main character. It was the Awakening. That was the name of the novel, The Awakening, and she they banned the book and they asked her about the main character, and you know, why did you write the character doing that? And she said, she responded, By the time I knew
what she was up to, it was too late. And so that's somebody that just sat down at the typewriter and after a while, you kind of get boxed in because the character kind of takes on a life of their own, and so they can't just do or say anything because now you've developed them, and you've got ten or twelve chapters or fifteen or twenty chapters, and so
you know, there's only certain things that character. You know, you've kind of built that character, and so they kind of they kind of take on a life of their own. There's times I've looked back on stuff I've written and I didn't remember writing it. It was like I was writing in a fugue state, and I think the character was just then the driver's seat.
Wow, I wonder if I love that. I'm just thinking now, like when that author said, you know, it's like by the time you know the character emerged or whatever, it's almost like your subconscious is writing and your your your conscious mind isn't even aware of what's going. And then by the time it emerges, you know, it's like your prefrontal cortex is offline and your your subconscious is just opening this this door of wonder and you're like, where
did that come from? Oh? Because that wasn't even in my mind, but it was somewhere.
Right, you know, that's how it happens.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I'm guessing the etymology of pantherer is that flowing by the cd of pants? What is that?
I think? I think so I don't know the etymology, but I imagine it's just somebody that that's exactly a sort of flying by the seat of your pants. So I'm not a disorganized person, but I am, in my heart a creative and I think creatives just naturally don't like, uh, rules or you know, I mean, guidelines is a better is a is a better thing? For me? I wouldn't want to box myself. I would feel boxed in and
maybe a little bit crowded creative. You know, from a creative standpoint, if I were to outline my work, well.
I think that that that I'm with you, like, I think that sometimes that having to work within a box or a set structure or a set framework, that's kind of at odds with creativity because now you've created.
Boundaries and you're like, fuck the boundaries, Like you know, it's like, this is the whole point. This is not real. This is creativity, This is this is expression. Like there's already enough rules outside of my writing. I don't need rules in my writing as well.
Right, that's exactly right.
Do you they talk about what's that dude who wrote or who did all that research on flow has got a really interesting name. Anyway, it'll come to me. But tell me about flow state for writing, if that's a term that you use or something like. Sometimes I get into I get into a flow state, not often, but sometimes also we're speaking, I will say sometimes I'm sometimes I'll do a half day workshop and this sounds weird, but you'll get it. It's like it's coming through me,
not from me. And sometimes sometimes I write and I feel the same and I feel just and it might end up I don't even do anything with it, but I have. It's like something is emerging and I've got to get it out of my head. And it's like I fall into a time vortex where I've been writing for five minutes and I look up and I've actually been writing for an hour. Do you get into that space?
Yes? I do absolutely sometimes, And I think lately I've been doing a lot of revising of something that I'm working on. But when I sit down to write something new, especially if it's something that I'm excited about, it's a new scene or you know, it's the ending, and I've had it in my head and everything has jelled, and I sit down to write and it just just like you said, I can't type fast enough, Like I'm thinking
faster than I can actually type. That happens a lot, and then other days it's like you turn on the faucet and there's nothing, and then you wonder, you know, this is something I even know how to do.
Yeah, like I feel like it happens despite me, not because of me. Sometimes, you know, yes'ctly creativity is yeah, and you can't exactly you can't really strategize around it because you can't say, well, you know, tomorrow morning at nine, I'm going to be creative.
It's like, no, you're not right, that's right now, you're.
Actually going to be creative in the car, yeah, you know, when it's completely inconvenient as you're walking into that Yeah, as you're walking into that meeting.
Right or in the shower where we always have you know, pen and paper. That's the worst. Everybody talks about that. I mean, there's been times where I feel like, you know, I've tried to talk into my phone, like into the notes or times where I think of something and I think it's so good, I won't forget it. That is, never it works out, I always forget it.
So I read in your bio. I read in your bio, is Shelley that you've edited over two hundred scientific manuscripts.
Yes.
Wow, that must be analogous to punching yourself in the face.
Uh. Yeah, I you know, when I started working with scientists, I was I'm very much a creative and so and the and the writing was pretty dry, and I tried at first to sort of, you know, inject a little bit of creativity. I learned my lesson really quickly that they just don't publish things in scientific journals if it's uh, if it's you know, it sounds like a juicy, good story.
They like their dry, rigid style, especially the journals. And I have edited a lot of papers on everything from anthrax and various neurotoxins to malaria to COVID, the worst thing that ever happened to my scientific My scientific manuscripts on diseases were at least interesting. And when COVID hit, and it was all over the news and it was on everyone's lips, and they started sending me COVID papers.
I was like, I was so burned out from the whole, the whole COVID thing, and I'm like, I'll read anything, please, can we go back to malaria or you know, just osmyosis or something like that. So, yes, lots lots and lots of grants, lots and lots of scientific manuscripts, and after a while, even if you're not a PhD scientist, you start to pick up on the science and learn
some things. And I think when I started twenty years ago, I would have told you that I was not interested in science at all, and today I'm very, very interested. I do a lot of reading on nutrition and exercise science in particular. Wow, a lot of reading about food and food science, just you know, in my spirit, in my personal time. Nothing that I'm editing.
But yeah, now, oh so many things I want to talk to you about now. Is that because we spoke off air and you said you're comfortable to talk about it, so you have MS? Am I correct?
That's correct? Yes?
And so is you're interested in You're interested in nutrition? Perhaps related to that, like trying to manage your MS and your health optimally or is it just something different a little.
Bit so even you know, prior to my diagnosis with MS, and I've had MS for twenty four years, and but prior to my diagnosis because they ruled it out and then eight years later I was in the hospital paralyzed on my left side. And at the time they said, you know, we're not sure that you'll walk again, and if you do it, you might have a lamp And
that was probably the main concern. Even though everything was turned off on the left side, things that you don't think about, like my vocal cords, my eyeball, my di my diaphragm, like everything on the left side was turned off.
But you know, the leg. Of course, they want you to be able to walk, and so I thought, you know, I need so I started physical and occupational therapy, which I did for about eight months, and I guess that's probably you know, up until that point, I did a lot reading about macronutrients and the importance of protein and things like that because I was working out, lifting a lot of heavy weight leg pressing eight hundred and sixty five pounds and running long running a long races, and
so I did a lot of reading about food and what's good for the muscles. But then when I got diagnosed, I would say I probably stopped eating, for the most part, any kind of fast food or junk food and pretty much anything that comes from a package, and so, you know, and kind of shifted more to a whole foods diet after that. And then since then I have gotten really interested in sort of like as I get older, sort of you know, maintaining healthy blood sugar and cholesterol levels
and things like that. And the science is.
Just, yes, caeping inflammation to a minimal minimum.
Right, Yes, that's exactly right.
And how I how I You know, this is a silly question, but not really how are you now? Like? You look great, you sound great?
Thanks? I feel great, and I think I do really well. I'm on so for years, I was on injectables that I gave myself. You know. Sometimes it was on a daily basis. Other drugs were three times a week. Now I have an infusion every six months that sort of knocks out my B cells, the cells that make antibodies. So I'm on what they call a B cell depletion drug, and I've been on that for about six years and I've done really well. But it's all I gotta say.
It's It's always sobering to go to the MS client because there are a lot of people using walkers or in wheelchairs, and so I feel like I'm always filled with you know, gratitude, and sometimes i feel even maybe a little lucky that you know that I've worked with scientists and interested in reading science and so have you know, an advantage I guess that way, you know, navigating the scientific literature, being able to go into Google scholar and
look up something. And if I can't understand it, then I've got people around me that can. So I don't I don't take anything for granted, I guess these days.
Yeah, well it's it's twenty four years with MS, and to be as healthy and functional as you are, you're doing something right. So that's great. You know what I'm fascinated in at the moment, I've been opening the door on the relationship between I mean, I'll be my PhD is in neuropsychology, but I'm just fascinated with the way
that our thinking can make us sick. You know, yes, and there's so much research around you know, placebos like our thinking making us well, and but just the impact of you like, even when you think about the fact that and we're detering a little bit from the book and the writing conversation. But you know when you think about when you obsess or ruminate on negative things, which a lot of people do, and there's no criticism in this,
just awareness. You know, when you're ruminating on negative things, problems that might happen in the future, and things that did happen all that time ago that we can't undo now, and what that person across the road might think of us or whatever. Right, and it's all understandable human stuff. But because your body can't tell the difference between what is real and what is perceived, so then your body responds as though you're actually in a problem. Now. Now
you're producing adrenaline and cortisol and all of these things. Right, and like just just when you isolate one bit, which is cortisol. Cortisol is like cortisole pumping around your body all day or a lot of the day, which is a lot of people because they overthink and they you know, analysis paralysis, and they're constantly worrying about things that might happen and literally shutting down their immune system, you know,
creating cellular inflammation. It's like I truly think that. I mean, and I know this is no groundbreaking revelation, but like we talk all the time when we're talking about physical health, obviously we talk about lifestyle and food and exercise and booze and drugs and sleep and cigarettes. But I think maybe more importantly is your ability to have a calm mind, you know, to be able, to be hopeful, to be grateful,
to be you know. And I'm and this is obviously easy to said and done, but you have a look at the relationship between people, you know, people that you know that a highly anxious and and constantly doom and gloom and constantly focusing on that it's not many of them are healthy.
That yes, that's exactly right, That's exactly right. I that is just I've listened to so many podcasts about that very thing. Andrew Huberman, I guess, is probably the last
person that I listened to who talked about that. There are several people that post things on Instagram that, you know, where they talk about how important gratitude is and that if you'll just stop, you know, every day, like if you think you're having a bad day, just stop and think of three things that you're grateful for and so I do that all the time. I recently had a family member who had a serious illness and it was one of those things where the doctors just don't really
know what was wrong. And I said, but you know, you've got some medication. We do have doctors that are looking into it, You've got family members that are helping out, You've got people that can take care of things at work. I mean, we just had so much to be grateful for, even though it was really, you know, a kind of
a bad situation at the time. And so I've gotten into sort of a habit, you know, every time something bad happens, just taking a step back and checking myself and making sure that you know that that gratitude is always there.
I was. I was in the cafe an hour or two ago, and I'm always you know, shutting down ideas thinking and I was, I was thinking about this very thing. I was thinking about gratitude. And you know, I've got one of my mates is a quadriplegic, and I've spoken of him a bit lately, so I apologize to my audience. But you know, if you can stand up out of a chair and walk to the door like you and I can. Well, that's amazing. If you can turn on a tap and there's cold water, that's amazing. If you
can press a button then the room gets warm. Well, you're privileged, you know. It's like, can you open the fridge and there's food in there? Well, that's a lot of people, you know. And I was doing a little bit of research on poverty. So as of twenty twenty four, nine point two percent of the world's population, seven hundred million people live on less than two dollars fifteen a day,
so extreme poverty. And about another twenty six percent of the population live on less than three dollars sixty five, so between two dollars fifteen and three sixty five a day. So that's over that's thirty five percent. That's more than a third of the people on the planet. So over two million, well over two million people live on less more than three dollars sixty five US a day. And when I hear that, Shelley, I want to punch myself in the face. When I complain about my bullshit, you know.
Right right, yes, I hear you. I the same, the same when I watch the news and see, you know, some of the things that are happening. I think that exact same thing. When I talk to the students and when we actually am coming back to the end the news assignment, I talk about how when you watch the news, it's a lot of suffering. They don't report anything in the news that's not suffering. So it's war and natural
disasters and you know, politics. And I tell the students, you know, try not to let these things get in your head too much. What I want you to do is, you know, when you're reading about these things, keep in mind what you can do. You know, I can't personally changed the climate for the entire planet, but I can recycle. I can purchase, you know, household appliances that are energy efficient. You know, I can turn out the lights. I can
you know, I can do things like that. I can't stop systemic racism, but I can treat black and brown people in my life with respect. I can't do anything about, you know, politics, but I can exercise my right to vote, you know, things like that, Like you know, start with yourself and the people around you. You know, the person next to you, and so you know, that's what I try to focus on. And I think my grandmother, who was a quadriplegic from age thirty until the time that
she died. Probably was the first person who I felt like lived that out as you know, as an example for me.
That's amazing. Yeah, I think that that's that very stoic philosophy of what's in my control. I'll control my controllables. You know, what's the best use of my time and energy and ability based on my values and who I want to be and how I want to be? What is the best use like what should I invest energy in?
Like think about it, and I'm I'm I'm just as guilty as anybody at different times, but like wasting energy on things that I can't control, you know, and then coming back to being present, like okay today, like today, what's the best use of my energy today based on who I am and how I want to be today? You know, I know that's a bit deep, but it's almost like a daily check in.
Yes, I think so. I think that's exactly right. You know, you have a platform, uh and a lot of reach. So that's an advantage that you have. You know, I personally, I don't personally have that, but I do have, you know, my classroom, my students, and my kids, you know who I try to you know, set an example for so. You know, I was talking to a friend the other day about mistakes I made. I always refer to it as my pre prefrontal cortex version of Shelley. Uh. And
you know all the things that I did. And but you got to give yourself some grace because that's before you knew, uh what you what you didn't know? I guess.
Yeah.
I mean there's like self loathing understandable, but it's not helpful, you know, self awareness on the other hand, great, right, I think. So, yes, Now, a couple of things before we go. I read that you taught creative writing at Tennessee Stipe Prison. Tell me a little bit about that.
Well, that was actually my grandmother that taught creative writing Tennessee State. Yes, he taught creative writing at the Tennessee State Prison. So you know in her you know, from her wheelchair, wow and so and sometimes when I was growing up, you know, she would keep in touch and people would get out and sometimes you know, we would have dinner with someone that she met who had been in prison, who got out of prison, and she, I
think was you know, great example. I think I wrote about her not too long ago, actually on Instagram about how one of the prisoners told her that she didn't understand what it was like to be in prison, and she wrote them a letter about how you know, her body was a prison, that there were things that her body, her own body, wouldn't allow her to do, like run
or hug your kids like she wanted to do. And so that you know, people have different kinds of prison, and some of those are self imposed, and that you can look, you know, at your bars or through them, and so you know, there again, you know, back to the gratitude. You know, what can you do? And she said, you know, you can be an example for other prisoners. You can, you know, do the things that you are allowed to do in you know where you're at. Do what you can with what you have.
Think about the psychological and emotional prisons we build for ourselves, like the fee based prison. You know. Yes, happy birthday for yesterday.
Oh thank you.
I saw it. I thought I was going to comment that. I thought, now I'm going to wait until tomorrow. So happy, you know. So twenty nine hows it feel?
Right? It awesome? Last year in my timies?
Yeah, well, thirty is coming up. Dude, So you know, batten down the hatches once you hit the big three. Oh hey, we'll say goodbye, affair. But so the book is called The November Molecule, Shelley, is there anything else you want to open the eyes of our audience about website, any anywhere you want to direct people? Now? I know you've never done I know you've never done a podcast, but what guests do at this point in time is they plug their stuff, So feel free.
Okay, Well, my book, Venovano Molecule is available on Amazon. If you like thrillers and you like science, I think you would really enjoy it. It has won a couple of awards, and so I think it's a great read.
Yeah, perfect, I will I'll put a link to that. And I appreciate you. It's so nice talking to you. You're such a great communicator. You know, maybe we'll get you back at some stage if you're interested, and we could maybe do a little writing workshop with you, because everyone wants to be able to write better, so.
I would love that.
Okay, yeah, that'd be great, Shelly. We'll say goodbye our fair but for the moment, thanks so much for being on the You project. I appreciate you all right, Thank you,