I get a groovers welcome to another installing the shots so you project of course, Tracy Lee Connor from the other side. Well, it depends where you're at, doesn't it. From where I am the other side of the country, on the western side. I'm on the eastern side of Australia. Hi, Trace, how are you? Hey?
You going, Craig. I'm awesome.
Oh, you are always good. You know, you're one of those people. I mean, we've met quite a few times and you are you are among other things, like you're a superstar in your own right. But you've been a follower and a listener and an attendee to my stuff for how long, like a long time, right, I'd.
Say four or five years, And it just what I'd do is just gather my toolbox. I've got a toolbox, and between you and my psychologist, I have you know, check everything in the toolbox. And that's where it is.
Why I know it's definitely more than four or five years, because COVID was four four and a half years ago, and it was way before that.
Yeah, it must have been seventeen or eighteen then, or maybe eighteen.
Yeah, so that's a good anyway. Anyway, among other things. You've written a book called Chemo Brain, which we're not going to revisit today other than just to mention it
because that we've chatted quite a bit about this. But give, just give people before we talk about psychopaths in romantic relationships, which is what we're covering off today, just give people a quick the one minute overview because a lot of people listening to this won't have met you in inverted commas, so give them the snapshot of the one minute synthesis, the one minute snapshot synopsis of your your Chemo Brain book and journey.
So twenty eleven, I had breast cancer and so I was given massive doses of chemotherapy and all of a sudden, I thought I could just go back to work, And all of a sudden went back to work and nothing made sense. So long story short. Over time, I thought it would get better, as everybody told me I would, but I actually got worse. And through my beautiful community online, I found some amazing people that helped me determine that I had long term chemo brain. So I couldn't go
back to work. I had to try and find a way to live, had to get some insurance, so I did the David and glything and was quite successful, and then I wrote a book about it. But mainly when I started writing books that seemed to be about chemo bran, it was actually more about my personal story because people like Ian Gawler agreed with me that there was something more to do cancer than just you know, random bad luck.
It was a lot of it was trauma induced, and it kind of segues into what we're talking about today because I had been in a narcissistic relationship and the trauma of that I believe most definitely brought on my breast cancer.
Wow, so you wow, Okay, okay, just quickly before we move on, when did you first hear the term? Not that I trust your judgment now with dates, because you've already proven in two minutes your shit with recall and shit with dates. When did you first hear the term chemo brain? When did you hear that? What year? For the first time?
Two thousand and thirteen.
Right, so that's eleven years ago. And back then it wasn't really I mean, it was more like just a colloquial term than anything that was held in any kind of medical regard, right exactly.
It was like baby brain, and that would get it would get discarded and laughed off in the same sense, Oh you've got baby brow here, You'll get over it. That's all the doctors said. But now they caught that. My doctor rash Asher from the Cedar Sinai Hospital, the medical director for cancer Survivorship, says that we need to call it cancer related cognitive impairment because it's not always from the chemo. It can often be from the cancer.
Yeah, yeah, wow, And so I'm writing that cancer related cognitive impairment CRCI. Yeah. I probably shouldn't write that down in the middle of an interview, but fuck it, I want to remember that term, so I wrote it down.
So do you you think that because you've been like I know you were in one significant toxic, destructive relationship with.
Psychopath? Is that? Just have you had multiple relationships like that? Like, do you think you've been you've had relationships more than one psychopath? One is enough, by the way.
One is enough. But the reason I'm talking to you today one was I didn't even know what a narcissist was. I had never heard the term. I didn't understand what it was. I was in this crazy, toxic destructive relationship. But knowing me being the researcher that I am, I had to find an answer. I just went, what is
going on with this? One of us is crazy? And so I you know, when I finally got out of that relationship, of which I'm kind of grateful I had it, because it was the first thing that really determined how much I did not love myself, because I allowed people to really fuck with my head in a way that nearly a nearly killed me with cancer, and be what that didn't happen on early committed side of it. So it was really, you know, like how must you not
love yourself? And so then started a fifteen year journey with my wonderful counselor to then get to the point where I'm madly in love with myself and I don't care about anybody else. I'm so happy.
That's not true. You care about other people, just my family.
I do, but I don't yearn for that. I don't have that yearning for a significant other to talk to validate me and make me feel like anything. You know, It's like, unfortunately, it's when women feel that way that they just feel, Oh, if I only met the right person, that could see me as I am, and then they're so open to be manipulated when they meet these people because they're quite under the radar. So the first the relationship I had was with a narcissist that we its
just not really all that calculating. I probably didn't even realize it was a narcissist. But the ones that I had after that, I had one very short one that I recognized it for what it was very quickly because of my experience, and that was the covert narcissist, which we're going to cover today. And since then, I've also mainly people around me, people I care about, people I've been significantly in their lives, are being caught up with
the covert narcissist. And for the fact that I speak fluent narcissist, I don't stay long in their lives when they meet one of these guys, because they take one look at me opening my mouth for five minutes and go, oh my god, she's going to out me and I need to get rid of her out of this person's life, which they do very quickly.
Wow Wow, all right, So what I mean, I don't know how this is going to work because, as with every podcast, I just make shit up as I go. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to I'm going to read some of what you sent me today. And we don't normally like I get lots and lots of emails, I get emails and messages, and you, by the way, we know who you are, and you're credible and you're not just some weirdo saying I want to
be on the show. But I got your message today and I went, that is actually really worth chatting about. And so it's been a very quick turnaround because I got your email this morning and you said, at some stage can I chat about this? I read it and I went, yeah, that's actually I think it's really helpful potentially for a lot of people. For me, I'm reasonably familiar with sociopaths and psychopaths narcissist because of my own experiences and my research and my work and all of that.
But I think I think a lot of people think that a psychopath is an axe wielding murderer, yes, when sometimes they're actually socially skilled, charming, good looking, high iq smooth, outwardly kind fucking warm, caring. But we kind of find out that although the last three things anyway, are basically a show. So I'm going to read some of this and then I'm going to hit the pause button then
get you to unpack various bits. So Psychopaths in Romantic Relationships was the heading with a state of domestic violence. I don't think there are enough conversations highlighting this type of relationship and the playbook and red flags that are there. All right, let's start with that. What's a red flag if somebody, I'm sure our audience is a little bit educated because of David Gillespie, of whom you're a fan, I understand, oh, total fan.
And the other thing you know, and like he talks about do not do not engage with the junkyard dog, and he's right, do not engage. But the covert narcissist that I'm talking about isn't the junkyard dog, and isn't even the good looking junkyard dog. He's a wolf. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. He lives his life in a way that other people and he's usually got a hard lock, sad story. Something dreadful happened to him in one of the covert narcissists that I had in my
life this was true. It was devastating that he did lose his daughter in a car accident. It was a very sad thing. But he played that really well so that when you feel so deeply sorry for somebody, you do ignore some of the flags that do come up because oh, God has been through so much. So and there's a playbook, So there's usually a sad story there is. Then there becomes something to hook you in, which is
usually the sad story. Or they're very humble, They sit back and they don't say much, and they look like they're the quiet person. They really don't say, but they don't say. But the reasons they don't say too much is they do want to hide who they are, and the less they say, the more people can just assume that they're great people because they don't want to give up. You know, they're not really. I think COVIDT narcissists aren't as genuinely really really smart as the normal high level,
grandiose type of narcissist. So then what they do is that they come across say what I call a target. It would be a person and it's usually a woman who's nearly always in any narcissistic relationship, there has to be an EmPATH because the covert narcissist is in pain because of whatever sad thing happened to him. The EmPATH will just tune into that and go, oh, I can fix you, I can make you happy, and then some
like that begins. And then what happens is it's always these long drawn out conversations over hours, days, weeks, and you go and the first thing that the person says when they meet these guys, oh my god, he listened to me. We talked for hours and days and weeks.
But what they don't realize is that covert nasis is just garnishing information data, what makes you tick, what makes you, where your buttons to suppress are, what your insecurities are, and he gathers all this while you're thinking he's madly in love with you. It will generally move very fast, this type of relationship, and it'll generally involve the words like soul mate, never met anybody like you before, wish I'd met you forty years ago, I had.
This level of never had this level of connection.
Yes, yes, And then where you where it comes into your field, Craig, is that we all know that when people fall in love, things change literally physiologically change in your brain, so you know, your decision making process and all sorts of things, even in a healthy in love relationship, are impaired to some degree. And then sometimes when all that settles down, the relationship, you know, sometimes doesn't work, and you know that's just a healthy in love relationship.
But with a covert narcissist, he love bombs very fast, very quick. He does things like, you know, pulls the car up, puts the air conditioner on ten minutes before we're going to get in the car, and he does things that no one has ever done for you. And then your brain then you know, you still take a bit of time, but then all of a sudden you let yourself go. You fall madly, deeply in love with this person, and he keeps going until it's like a big fat fish on a hook and you it's.
Kind of it's kind of like grooming righting. It's like to me, I'm thinking, as you were saying all this, if we were going to put it in a military context, it's like doing intel on the target. It's like it's like getting intel on the enemy, so you know their weaknesses, you know how you can exploit them, you know, how you can take control and win. I mean, it's it's very do you think do you think that they are like this is just how and I'm sure it's different.
And by the way, everyone, this is not two experts talking about this. This is just a conversation me having a conversation with somebody who had a pretty bad relationship with psychopath. But do you your experience and insight, and you've chatted with lots of women who have been in similar relationships, do you think they set out to be that strategic from day one or that's just how they are.
They are just their default setting is manipulation, controls, self serving, you know, like psychopathic, narcissistic.
But that's a really good question. This is what I think. And like you said, we're no two experts. But the way a narcissist is formed is usually something pretty drastic happened to them between the ones I know, the ones I've met, and the ones I've been involved with. Something you know, usually my mom died at two, or you know, even my mom died at nine, or something really dramatic happened to these people in early childhood, which makes it
so painful that their personality splits. And that's what a narcissist is. It's a person their personality split. And then the one that's the one that they roll on with is the one that doesn't feel anything, has no empathy, feels no pain. But like we all know that the will of survival is one of all of our strongest desires that we have to protect, the will to survive. So then you, for a narcissist, his survival is is garnering that narcissistic energy. You know, he has to maintain
that energy. He hates himself, he's he's he's in pain, and the only thing that makes him feel better is when he's being adored, until the point once he's not being adored. It's even if he's hated, as long as he's getting something's energy, some sort of energy off the target. And I guess what I don't know and understand is the playbook is identical. I know ten different narcissists and the playbook was the same, And I don't know why.
And you know what it is is that yes, first of all, they love Bob, and then they put you up on a pedestal and then they resent you being on the pedestal because they start looking at things while you shouldn't be up on that pedestal, and they then start pulling you apart. And what happens that I knew with the narcissist is that there was a normal person understands win, win, and I think the win. We go into a scenario. We always want to come out win, win,
whereas a narcissist will never see that. He will see if you're winning, he's losing. So if everyone's paying you attention because it's your birthday, then he will be very angry at you because it means that he's losing. Your winning, he's losing. If it's Christmas time and everyone's having a great day, you're winning. He's losing. He will ruin Christmas Day, which they never know.
Do you know, off the top of your head? What of psychopaths? This is terrible, but fuck it, this is how we roll. What percentage of psychopaths are women. I'm just checking this out. I'm seeing what chat GP.
It's interesting that they're there, but not as much.
Yeah, we're bogged. Yeah, because I've googled. Yeah, I think that I think we need to be of course, I think the majority of psychopaths are men, and but I think we also need to point out that the women won't open any doors. But I've had some interesting experience over the years, and I can tell you it ain't all dudes, oh dudes. And yes, I agree, most men are not most men. Most psychopaths the greater percentage. I think it's something like seventy thirty. I think it's something like that.
But the women may be there. We don't know that.
So when you say covert cycle, is that an actual term or did you make that up?
There's an actual term. If you research it, they will turn around and they'll give you. You know, if you put in covert narcissist, they'll tell you that's a different kettle of fish. It's a different it's a different narcissist. And they act differently. And the reason they act differently is they they're they're in this, they're in the community. They're quite The ones I've known are in small towns.
They're doing something for the you know, the Return Services League or some you know, some organization where everyone in town says they're such a great guy and they do so much for everybody. And and oh, I've known him all my life, and it's like, yeah, but he's been married three times and he's got and he's estranged from all different relationships. How do you explain that none of his kids speak to him? How do you how do you know? How do you explain that? So with them,
going back to the playbook, it's the love bombing. Then once you're hooked, then they start these and it's honestly, when you hear gaslighting. A lot of people have heard the term, but I don't think they really understand. I got gas lit, not by a person I was in a relationship, but this is how I got tossed out of that person's life without actually having any sort of argument with the person that I was close to or the person that her new boyfriend. It was actually something
to do. I had a little bit of a few words with his mate over a wine debate, and all of a sudden, out of nowhere, the boyfriend kept going upstairs. You know, seven point thirty never said another word to me after that sort of chiff I had with his mate, And I haven't heard from this person since February that would call me three times a week. So what would have happened there is that I'd said a few things.
I accidentally didn't realize who, you know, the whole situation, and I sort of might have outed him a little bit, so I had to had to be gotten rid of. But it's just that, you know, they they've got to survive. So all of a sudden he knew that, all of a sudden it was dangerous to have me involved, so he found a way. And he would have turned around to this person who was madly in love with him and said, well, look, you know, I'm not ever going to speak to this person again. I think that they're
a heap of shit or something like that. But it's fine me that you know, you can be friends with them, but it's either them or me. And you know, when somebody is that crazily in love with you, of course, and when the people that I've talked to, I mean, this has happened, if their sisters, their brothers, their fathers and mothers. You know, once you're in a relationship with a narcissist, he can't afford to have anybody that's going
to support her and take her side against him. But what he will choose, he'll find somebody in a trying what they call it triangulation. He'll he'll find somebody that's not an enemy or whatever, it's somebody that they both know. But then he'll go, look, I think you're going crazy, and I talked to Joe Blow and he agrees with me. You know, they use a third person to substantiate their
bullshit and it's probably not even true. I mean, he probably Joe Blo probably said a word, but he'll utilize that. Or or they'll turn around and get somebody close to you, you know, your mum, your dad. They'll charm them and they'll go, look, I have to talk to your dad, and you know he's thinking the same as me, you're not really quite right in the head. And the reason why that happens is because all this craziness and an argument with a narcissist is traumatic, because he'll say, for instance,
he got laid home. Being laid home for a week smells a perfume, and then you start an argument with him and he'll turn around go, I know you're playing up on me. You know, I know, why are you trying to sabotage this relationship? And it'll turn into a big argument where you're the only person that's doing anything wrong. And I mean if you just that ramps up, and
it ramps up over years. And like I said in my letter, I read and I agree that sometimes it takes seven times to leave that relationship because they tear you apart to the point where you cannot make a decision that you trust and you just don't know which ways up. If you don't know anything about narcissist, if this is a normal person in a normal relationship, you
honestly think that you are going crazy. And one of my sister in law rang me one day and she said, look, I think I need to go and get tested because I'm going crazy. You know, at work, I put the stapler down and I turn around and go, well, where's the statement that it's absolutely gone? And things like that. But it turns out the partner that was exiting the relationship was doing all this so that she would think that she was crazy, so when they got to the
divorce courts, he could wrong foot her. And turns out, you know, her daughter and her son in law were top flight lawyers in Sydney. Wrong person to try and scrow over and it didn't work, But that's what they do. They will and with me, I didn't even know what was happening to me. But I was in this high stay of trauma. And you've talked about it too, you know, cortisol, adrenaline just going through your system. And you know the last time I had a big you know, it was
an argument over he was mean to my child. He got my sick child out of bed and was abusive to him, and we ended up in such a fight that he took a swing at me and hit me in the chest, pushed me in the chest, and we were going to BALI the next day. See, they tend to do these things around times when they can get away with them. But as it turned out, that push in the chest could have been a savior because I ended up having a lump of fluid that turned out
to me my breast cancer. But had that not happened, who knows? Did he cause it? Did he? Did he locate it? I don't know?
Okay. So what I want to know is how how long were you in this relationship with with I was going to say your psychopath. I'm just going to go with that, with your psychopath.
Four and a half years, okay.
And when did you going in did you have any understanding of sociopthy psychopathy did you did you have any idea? And when did you first think and when did you first start to get some insight and understanding?
Not until after I left the relationship.
Oh really wow? And so what was happening? So tell us as much as you can that you know that you're comfortable to share with us about those four and a half years.
Well, I think I was that person that I said, you know, like I was a single mum. I had, you know, not much of an opportunity to I've been single for eight years, my kids were getting older. I really loved the idea of being in a relationship. I was really lonely, and I you know, like I clapped eyes on this guy and he was very good looking, and and I think I pushed that relationship. I mean if I had, if I had been a different person with a bit more you know, self awareness, I don't
think I would have gone there. But I you know, I was desperate, I was needy, and he was you know, he just played that, you know a little bit. And and then I made decisions that I should never you know, about my kids, and you know, like he just manipulated situations and you just become a I think it's the same thing as a drug addiction. I really do think that. I think if you looked at the physiology.
Oh for sure, we know that people people get addicted to people like yeah, because you know, you think about this. If you're around somebody and all of a sudden, you're around that person and because you're near them, you're producing dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin and all that shit, Well, that's I mean, that's biochemical reaction, right, that's that's your brain lighting up like a Christmas tree. And when you're not with that person it doesn't happen. Then when you're
with them, it happens. Yeah, one hundred percent. You're right. It's it can be a physical addiction.
It was and and like I left him and and you know, my kids were just begging me to leave, and I did leave him, and I couldn't function. I was really ill. It was like I had withdrawals. I couldn't stop thinking about anything to you know, I had anxiety. I had all the things that you would expect of withdrawing from a drug.
Wow, that is amazing. And so did you go back?
I did? I did go back and my kids. I lost my kids over it. One kid went in one direction, one and the other and I just yeah, I just thought. And when I went back, it was like probably a junkie jumping into a whole pile of heroin. I was just like, oh my god, I've got it back, you know. And I mean this guy had me down on the ground with his hands around my throat at one stage, and there was just no way up. I didn't know which way was up. I was desperately addicted in a drug,
a drugged fuelled scenario. Just to add on to that, I drive past that guy's house. He lives about three doors down from my daughter. I see him three or four times a week. He sometimes stops and chats to me. There is no addiction going on. There not a feeling, not an ounce of feeling or desire to. There's not even any intense feeling of dislike. It's just a black line.
It's such an interesting analogy because it is like, you know, some people who use or who are addicted to, whether it's gambling or whether it's drugs, or whether it's booze or whether it's you know, there's a bunch things, but eventually they get to the point where their life is good without that, which is, you know, thankfully. How long do you think it, like, did you leave him, go back to him, and then leave him and go back again or was it just the once.
I left and went back and then and then after you know, when I when he took a big swing at me, if I hadn't have moved my face back, I moved sort of stepped back, and it was in front of my two kids, and his knuckles grazed my face, and I think he would have probably killed me had I not avoided that, because he's a big bricky and bricklayer, that's four and he you know, if he had connected, I would have been seriously injured.
So you never went to the police. She never did anything.
Yes, saying yeah. I then went to the violence court and I was about to take out violence restraining order and also having charged with assault. They appointed me a counselor in the violence court and then local women's health. He talked me out of putting charges on him, but I commenced with my counselor, who I have today fifteen years. We started and it was such. We started at a
point where I was completely physically, morally, everything bankrupt. And then I went to see her the other day and she cried because oh wow, it's just the contrast of building a human being to the ultimate, you know, your best version of yourself. And so with all the work you talk about that you talk about, you've got to do the work.
I did the work, do you I don't. Firstly, everything that happened to you was terrible. Shouldn't have happened. Nobody should do that to you. No, do you do you ever think I'm a No, I'm trying to question. I'm trying to ask frame this carefully because I don't want people to misinterpret what I'm saying. But do you ever think what part did I play? Why? And No, you didn't deserve it, and of course you shouldn't have done it,
and it's not your fault. That's not what I'm saying, But I would I would think, fuck, how did I not see this? How did I you know? Do you ever think about that? And what advice would you give yourself if you could go back?
I think about that all the time. I've actually put it in my book Craig that it was one of the most important things that ever happened to me. Because it did. It highlighted that I do not have a caring and loving relationship with myself. That I put another human being in front of me and my children, and there's something very wrong. There was something I knew that there was stuff wrong. I mean, we've I had a
dodger childhood. There was all sorts of things involved in that, and there were reasons why I was a bit needy. But what was great is not great. But what was the most important thing to come out of that is it was a realization and self awareness of all the things I played to put myself in that position. Every decision I made with that position I had to own and I had to you know, I had to be
aware of it. I had to teach my children that I did this and apologize to them, and you know, go on to the premise that when you know better, you do better. So I've spent fifteen years learning how to be better and do better, and I am better.
Wow. A couple of quick questions. So you and your kids are good now, I hope.
Oh that's what I went to see Jill about. And I just said, Sarah called me Mama the other day. You know I was doing. She's got a new little baby and she only lives close to me, and she said, oh thanks Mama, and just that little thing. You know, it's just taken a lot of years for that to happen. And and Mitch, you know, you know the dude with the West Coast Eagles top. He used to always tell them.
I've met MITCHI came to a camp. Yep.
Yeah, So Mitchell's in an amazing place. He's in a growth period and he's gone through a bit, but he's like comes in and has those deep, meaningful conversations. And both my ca and I've like both my kids really disrespected me a little bit, think that I was just hopeless. But I've just taken all my super and built like what I call Hotel TLC on my property here. It's seven hundred and twenty eight square met is. So I've
built in a granny flat. I've got a studio apartment, and I got an Airbnb and it's called Hotel TLC. And my ratings on booking dot com are like I've got an award, a travel award, because they're nine point one out of ten and my Airbnb is getting four point nine out of five and I got a one hundred dollars in SuperHost award and I'm loving. I mean, this is what I'm meant to do. And you know, the people that come through here, a lot of them are drawn to me, just like this little spot opened
up today. Yeah, the people who come to stay with me quite often leave with something important and something grounding.
Well, you have beautiful energy and you have really beautiful intentions, so that matters, and that makes a difference. So I want to know, she said earlier, Hold fuck this up, so correct me if I get it wrong. But something like it's good that I'm in a place now where I love me and I'm happy to be just me. I'm happy to be not alone, but happy to be single because you're not alone because you've got friends and
family and kids and grandkid. Now, congrats. Is the door open for a I know you're not looking, but is the door open for a relationship? Or is like not fuck that I don't trust them or I don't trust myself.
No, I really do trust myself. I have no qualms about that. But my growth and on purpose, like I listen to you, I do a lot of other things, and I pick a topic each year and grow into that. This year it's you know, last year it was la boundaries, you know, and even me just learning to turn around and saying no, I'm sorry, that's not happening, or no I can't, or no you won't, and especially running an airbnb, you know, like I have to be tough on people.
And so each year I'm I'm giving myself a challenge. And because I'm growing, I kind of feel that even if I met somebody at the beginning of the year, by the end of the year, id outgrowth and look, if the right person came along and we could have interesting conversations. I did quiz, so I've got a great quiz tribe, so you know, I'm really interested in facts and figures and crazy stuff. And if I had a person that came along that was a kindred spirit, then
of course, and I don't feel mistrusting. I feel so much confidence in myself and also with my boundaries that if I turned around and met somebody today and their behavior wasn't appropriate, I would just turn around and say, I'm sorry, that's not good enough, goodbye. Whereas way back when then, when I attracted a narcissist, it was like, oh, okay,
I'm really sorry. You know, like people pleaser, and that's what all says in a book, you know, the amount of people who cancer are people pleases are amazing.
And I think that you made a really good point before and you said something like you feel like the trauma from the trauma that you'd been through caused you cancer. And you know, the thing is that like stress and anxiety and overthinking and depression, while we kind of put those in the psychological and emotional baskets, there's a very real physiological consequence to all of those things. And we know now like that things like isolation and loneliness, which
is a form of trauma. It's not the traditional trauma we think about, but isolation, loneliness, disconnection like these have an impact on our immune system. These have an impact on our physical health. These have an impact on our lifespan and health span. And in the old days, I would only talk about you know, exercise and sleep and food, and you know, maybe every now and then about anxiety.
But these days I'm talking a lot about the power of love, kindness, social connection, intimacy, you know, be that romantic or not, or just being very close feeling like you belong, feeling valued, feeling seen, feeling loved, being loved, feeling safe, like all of these things that you wouldn't compare to vegetables and bloody jogging, but in many ways they're more important for our physical health then whether or
not we've been to the gym in the life. And this is coming from a bloke who goes to the gym every day.
Yeah, definitely. And I remember this is something that you always say. I mean, when we started off this work with Jill, she said, well, you need to develop self love and self worth. And I remember saying, can you tell me which shop I can buy that apply? Because I don't know where to get that. But what you've talked about along, and this is definitely where how I got it, is that when you live in alignment with
your beliefs, when that's how your self esteem grows. Every time you make a decision that is for yourself or the right decision, you know, it's quite easy. You know, you talk about a lot, do the right thing, do the wrong thing. You know, if you talk about doing the right thing and then you do the right thing, and it's taken a long time, It's taken a good ten years because I now live in alignment with my beliefs,
which are family orientated, which are being myself. You know, I don't apologize for you know, not you know, being somebody not seeing myself. So it's like really quite funny. Like back in those days, in the middle of that relationship, I was absolutely wired. It would be a good way to put it, totally wired, like high alert and like they talk about walking on eggshells, and that's exactly what anybody a toxic narcissistic relationship is. And I was wired
twenty four seven. Now I am so calm and chill that even if I have a bad thought, I have to sit down and have a good talk to myself and my mantra. Like when we did all the renovations, which most people find very stressful, I had I man, I'd project managed it, and the mantra on the job was nobody died unless somebody dies. I'm not going to worry because we're a week late. No one's going to die if I don't get this done.
Do you think that for it's harder for women in that women and I'm generalizing here more empathetic, I think naturally more like most people that listen to my show Women, most people that come to my events of women. And you know this is not an idea or this is not a stab in the dark. I mean, I've got
lots of data and lots of evidence to say that. Well, in my experience, my anecdotal experience, is that a lot of women think way more about their feelings and expressing their feelings and their mental and emotional health, and they're more up talking about it and whether or not they are inherently kinder or they just act that as in, they just express it more than men do. I feel like women can be because of all of those things,
they can be more likely to be a people pleaser. Yeah, and so what's And I know this is just you and me having a chat, and you're not a clinician, and neither am I really, but what's your advice for people who are fucking lifelong people pleases, chronic people pleasers, which you probably were? And I reckon even in my life, I've been not a chronic people pleaser, but I always wanted everyone to like me, and so I compromised a bit, you know, and I did dumb shit because I wanted to.
I didn't want anyone to not like me because I was insecure.
What's your advice, Well, when you are in that state, you are shat and you are empty. And where I was a people pleaser and one of my girlfriends did the best thing ever one day she said to me, when I spend an hour with you, I've got to go and have a cup of teina, lie down. You know I was dragging her energy out of her because I was so empty. Yes, and it's because you're empty that you're people pleasing to try and feel yourself up.
But when you do the work and you become full, you feel and this is like I know you are as well. You must feel this as well. But when you are fulfilled, not what we call happy, but when you are fulfilled and joyous, you don't need to drag that out of anybody. You can quite happily give it to somebody, and you don't need to please anybody. You can just you know, when you've got it filled up,
then it's the time to be a giver. And then that then adds to your self esteem because you know, you know, not everyone's going to like you, and you may give to a whole pot of people that don't even like you, But that's okay, because they might they might give it to somebody else, and that's you know, it's like playing it forward and and that's what that's what fills you up, and that's what makes you feel whole. And you'll never ever ever get anything that you need
from another person. I really. I know that sounds weird, but you just won't. And really, I kind of think you've got no business being in a relationship until you have filled yourself up, because I don't think it's a fair relationship. I think that if two people were just needing off each other, I don't think that's healthy. I think that two people who are fully present in themselves and love themselves got the best bet of making a go at things well.
I think also, yeah, I think also some people, Oh god, I'm so careful that I know you can tell I get a few emails. Okay, this is what I think. Fucking I think some people, men and women see things like marriage as a solution to a problem. Right now, I'm not saying marriage is bad or being in a relation. You know, my last fucked, I'm fucked. All I need
is to be in a relationship. No for God's sake, that's the last thing you need to figure you the fuck out before you take all that emotional psychological bullshit into someone else's energy. Feel it's like no, no, like that person is not going to fix you, solve you, or save you. And this is the And I think also, I think because some people panic about not having someone and so then they lower their standards and then it's like, wow,
well he she whatever. They you know, they tick enough boxes, and it's like if they meet certain criteria or you know, they're kind of in the ballpark, whereas there's no you know, and I'm not saying that's the majority, but that definitely happens. It's not like, oh my god, God, absolutely and besotted head over heels, I love this person. No, they're single. I'm single and I'm thirty seven, so fucking let's roll the dice, ticken yeah, well yeah, or even just I
don't know. I don't know. But having said that, the fuck do I know? I'm sixty and single. I'm a fucking idiot. And also, there's a few relationships that I've seen get together and I thought not a chance, and I was wrong, So don't listen to me. Did you say you're writing another book?
No, I didn't. I didn't say I was, but I really do feel I should. I think that's on the cards. I think my big goal this year was with all my vision board, was a trip to the UK to track down my heritage in tallow and County Carlo and Ireland. So I just loved all that in I'm leaving on the first of August and in doing England, Ireland, Scotland over title of August with half with my girlfriend and half are my aim. Wow, and I just because I'm
just cool to do it. I feel that it's going to grow, you know, it's going to be some personal growth involved in that.
I had. I have a mildly not amusing, funny but interesting story, and that is I got contacted by a lady who lives in I think over your side, I think in Perth. I've got a feeling she was working in the minds anyway. She was Irish, is Irish and it was a while ago now, it's like maybe six years ago, maybe just a little bit before COVID and I didn't know, but I had this whole group of people in Ireland that followed my stuff and were quiet, and they had a Facebook page and they were this
whole group and it was big. It was like one hundred of people and they would talk about my my all my shit, right, which was lovely, which was lovely. And anyway, that Irish lady from Wa reached out and said, what would it take, like how much would we have to pay to get you to one? Are you're interested? And to how much would we have to pay to get you to come to Ireland and talk to our essentially our Craigarp group, Right, And I'm like, one, that's
completely gorgeous. I so much love that. And two my mum's mum her name was Molly Malone, right, and so I have this, Yeah, so I have this. I'm like one eighth Irish And anyway, I said, just pay for my expenses and I'll obviously you know that's still going to cost them, but I said, just pay all my bill, like pay the airfare, pay their com whatever, and I'll do the talk for free. So you know, so I'll fly over, I'll make zero dollars, but I'll get to
see where my roots are from. Anyway, I went to this little place called Tullamore shout out to the people in Tullamore. Oh my god. You know, like I've been I've been to a lot of places, like a lot of countries, a lot, and I've spoken in a lot of places. And there was something energetically weird Tracy Lee Connor about I genuinely felt and I didn't expect this,
so there was no like psychosomitic. I felt like I'd been there before, and I felt like even though I didn't know the people, I felt like I knew them and they were the warmest people I've ever met anywhere in the world, and so much so right Like it's a small town, Tullamore. I think it's like ten thousand people.
I think it's like an hour and a half out of Dublin, but people like I had at least a dozen different people offer for me to stay with them, Like I was like, and that asked me where I'm staying, and I said, Oh, I'm staying at you know, the whatever hotel And they're like, oh, you want to be doing that, You'll be staying with us. Oh, you'd be coming, you'd be staying with us. You won't be standing there, No, can't be doing that. And I'm like, like they were
so nice. I'm like, I'm definitely not coming and staying in your house, but it would freak me out to Oh but fuck, it was a fun trip and the nice Oh.
Yeah, through that way.
You'll love it. You'll you'll dig it all right, going.
Right through that way, So you'll have you done your ancestry DNA.
No, I should do it.
I should do it. I thought I was only a little bit about twenty five percent Irish. Turns out I'm fifty four percent.
Wow, that's you and I could be bloody related. Who knows tell people how to find you, follow you by your book all that stuff.
Oh my god, you know something I've COVID got me. I've done nothing in the book under the bed. I've just turned around and turned into a hermit and I've got to change that. But you know, tl t LC one six zero two at live dot com dot au about the only way to get in touch with me or I'm on Facebook.
All right, And if you really want to get in touch with Tracy, email me via the site info at craigharper dot net and we'll make sure that she gets forward that email to her. Hey, thanks for sending me an email today and thanks for that. I feel like you and I were all over the place in that chat, but I feel like it's okay.
I think that that's just that's who we are.
It's like two dogs with three dicks, just all over the shop. Very excited, very excited me.
I get there in the end. I've got to lean into my strengths.
All right, stay there. We'll say you by affair, but thanks, Trace, appreciate you no ways.
Thanks great