I'm still tall.
Rast listen to sand Jobs up versus the Shall.
Stop Up, Oh Cogan and the Rock in the same way you would never take my wife and the head of the day.
The pass guy some day said, oh my god, that fuck not Mines texting us them off. It will be the Rock, it will be Austin believe and they're a strike is.
Hey, guys, what's going on?
And welcome back to w w E Retro on the w W podcast on this Saturday, February twenty fifth. And yes, I'm sorry, I'm a lazy guy and I forgot or I didn't forget, but my schedule was just far too busy yesterday and I am a day late on this as I am, I would say probably fifty percent of the time. But I am here, and obviously kind of just wanted to put a bow on what happened at
Elimination Chamber. Obviously you heard my thoughts with Matt this past Monday on the current state of WWE, and I just wanted to say, I guess, on my own personal experience being inside the Bell Center and present for Elimination Chamber, probably the best crowd I've ever been a part of. I've probably been to about a dozen WWE shows, both Raw SmackDown live events and now by first ever pay
per view. And not to get into the Sammy and Roman stuff, because you know my thoughts on it, the Cody stuff, there's no reason for me to regurgitate that. But all in all, I want to say that it was a very successful pay per view. I am disappointed with the direction that they ultimately decided to go in.
But overall, what a pay per view.
And I have to say that pay per views as a whole since Triple H took over have been absolutely excellent and hopefully that try and continues as we are just what five weeks out from WrestleMania, and obviously it's going to go fast. We already kind of see the outline of how WrestleMania is going to shake out, and all in all, very good pay per view and one of the best pay per views probably ever put on
in Montreal. But obviously today we're going to go back in time and we are going to go back to WrestleMania two thousand aka WRESTLEINGA sixteen, And this was a WrestleMania that I think was underwhelming in a lot of ways, and not talked about, primarily because first and foremost, both the Undertaker and Stone Cold Steve Austin were not present for this WrestleMania, as both were dealing with injuries.
So right off the bat, you have two of the biggest.
Stars that the industry has to offer, not at your disposal for the biggest show of the year. And for the Undertaker, I believe this is the only WrestleMania that he was not present at. From whenever he debuted, I want to say his debut was wrestling he seven. I think, not gonna quote me on that, but I think it was about wrestling A seven. But oh wait no, because at rest My eighteen he had been Oh so it must have been like wrestling at.
Four or five.
Actually crazy how long he's been around. But during his run, I believe that Wrestling is sixteen was the only WrestleMania that he missed, and obviously Wrestling at thirty five as well, But I meant more from like the streak run from like all the way up until twenty fourteen, when he did ultimately lose to brock Lesner, that was the only wrestling that he was not a part of. So obviously a big, big missing piece there, and then obviously Stone
Cold Steve Austin. Stone Cold Steve Austin arguably the biggest star that the company has ever produced, that we've ever seen in the wrestling business, and he was a very big missing link here. So all in all, we get to a match in the main event that I think a lot of people thought was going a different way,
The Rock winging the Royal Rumble. Triple H is the long standing world champion heal World Champion that is newly aligned with his new wife, Stephanie McMahon, And you know, I thought that the way was paved here for Triple H to clash with the Rock, and we didn't get that. We got a different match, and a match that was more gimmicky, a match that involved a lot of outside interference, specifically the McMahon family, and one that I think that maybe WWE would like a mulligan on if they could
do it all over again. But before we get to the main event, we're gonna take a look at all the matches that kind of built up to the that once in a while lifetime main event. And I say that very very uh not, I guess fasheciously so the card opens in a tag team match a Big boss Man and Bill Buchanan, Bull Buchanan rather defeating The Godfather and Dilo Brown with iced Tea and the Hoe Train, in which obviously the ho Train is the side of
the times. The year turning two, two thousand and we're still kind of in that rebellious area, to put it lightly, But I don't know if you guys remember that, but Bill Buchanan, if you guys remember him, he was alongside John Cena for a bit in two thousand and three as B Squared and Bull Buchanan and Big boss Man pick up the win in nine minutes and eight seconds, not even for the tag titles. Just a grudge tag team match to open WrestleMania, and not often you see
that anymore. Just seeing tag team matches on the card seemed to be rare, but nowadays just seeing a grudge
tag match is almost completely not a thing. Then one of the more I guess interesting matches and unique matches we had ever seen, and it was the Hardcore Battle Royal for the WWF Hardcore Championship, and it was a fifteen minute time limit and it wasn't even a Battle Royal basically, it was that it was a absolute free for all and whoever was the champion by the end of the fifteen minutes would walk out as the hardcore champion.
So let's say you scored a pinfall in the first minute, you had to now hang on to that title for the preceding fourteen minutes. So it wasn't like a one fall to the finish or who gets the most championship victories. It's just whoever is the last man standing at the end of that fifteen minutes. And the likes that were involved in this match were hardcore, Hally Crash Holly entered as the champion, Taz Viscera, the A p A, the Crash and Thrasher. So, I mean, it was an absolute disaster.
Here Funaki with Kaye and Tie his partner the main Street Posse. It was just an absolute It was a gong show and it was hilarious. It was absolutely hilarious, and I have to say that it was all hell cut of broke loose as this match came to a head, I.
Want to smell the trash can one of the nice machina What are you doing.
Wrong?
He doesn't they didn't know anybody.
He is the champions.
He never did have both doors in the water. Oh nailed Joey as the brain cell disappeared. I have a cousin, cool.
Grass. Holly went to the cover. Is cousin mark four? Make sure it didn't consummate the three give to two minute of warning, tons two minute warning two minutes ago. Oh oh, we got a crack r By task. You have a cripple room and like a row By task.
Yeah, up and not with crashing the ring with his cousin and that press got the cover and Tas had a.
Power out.
In twenty five seconds. Hook at this as instinctively going for those those pens. That's what his conditioned to do. Did you see Tans. I think he's just looked at the clock. Oh, because you're just suit clix b donkey right. Don't want to hear the front of them flord fronts people grunk kicked my heart, brolly run over the paste and ten times had to kick out. Oh, I'm stand him in a minute. We're gonna take this, gonna hold on, Yeah you will sep up my tags. That's the only man in the ring.
He's gotta tell you how many had shots pans the only man to grow clean Minturn's Holly's count the three.
Listening another.
Turny crash, then crass hold on, then get that crash crash turn you hold off? He got thinking of.
Something take.
Cor cord by Park kept out?
Why did not going in the title?
Okay? Us a courcy here?
How to me?
Who did any time disappear?
Craft?
What is a tall man? How? Wait?
Wait a minute?
Ohmen, I like, my god, I think we have price can park. We hadn't we park this season?
I'm there.
So, as you heard, it was a very clunky finish and it didn't make much sense. And I think in a match like this there are a lot of issues that could arise when there's just so many people running around. And you even heard JR. Referencing that even though Taz was the world champion, he kept going for pinfalls anyway, So he kept going for these these covers and even though he was the champion, and it seemed like a lot of people were unclear with what was going on,
and it's probably why we never saw this match format ever. Again, as you know, the hardcore title I think relatively took a back seat at this point. Well, it would hang on I guess until about two thousand and two, so for another two years. The next match on the card you have Test and Albert along with Trish Stratus known as TNA. I guess you guys could connect the dots go head to head with the head cheese called al Snow and Steve Blackman in another grudge tag team match.
In seven minutes and four seconds, Test and Albert get the victory. Very yet to get a one on one match at this point, so that's kind of the theme of this WrestleMania. Actually, as you'll come to realize, is that still no one on one content three matches in. Then we get to the fourth match of the night that went twenty three and a half minutes, and it's edgend Christian versus the Dudley Boys versus the Hardy Boys in a triangle ladder match for the WWF Tag Team Championships.
And once again not a tag team match or not a singles match, but I would say that this one
blew the absolute doors off. And this is the match I'd like to call the forgotten TLC match that these three teams had, because for one, it was not dubbed the TLC match, it was a triangle ladder match, but it basically was a TLC match, and it was the first but of the first class that these three teams would have, and then they would have two other ones at SummerSlam that same year and Wrestling He was seventeen the year after, and obviously Wrestling seventeen is the one
everyone talks about. But I mean, this was an excellent match in its own right, and it was fun because that spot where Edge spears Jeff Hardy from the top of the ladder as Hardy's hanging onto the titles down to the ring. They originally did this spot at WrestleMania, at this Wrestleman rather, but people don't talk about it, And but it was different because it was Jeff Hardy climbing the ladder and Edge going to the top rope
and spearing him off the ladder. So they did the exact same spot, but just to a bit of a different variation and obviously a much more iconic visual and much more dangerous. But this match was excellent in its own right, and it certainly had its high spots of its own.
Nobody's gone, No, Godly, how's gon Ti to come in here? Father Death? That's harness mood. Maybe we've any of us.
Have little See.
That's an amazing this is that so something amazing? Mans? Then again, how many feet in everything that is at the shock those laugh? Is there anybody kept party?
Mama Dudley lying in the hallway in the ray there's a touch of fats.
Well, what haven't these guys done? Those men they are did you think of anything? I really can't keep What else could these men come up with? H Christian and and math Hardy had the same idea climb the ladder into that thing.
You read that table. I said that the book could happen here. There's a belt, there's a tag team championship belts.
They not got a hold of it. The tack toles are hanging in the same as the careers of these young man you the balls hey HEGs Christian Man Hardy, the books mean right time the prison of top Christian Christian printed us Henry chandsomly you know. But they're ning and stall lie there form things game.
And just like every other that these three teams have edging Christian come out and come out on top. And why I kind of consider them as the best tag team in the history of WWE, and that's obviously subjective, but that's just my opinion. And this particular victory because this was the first ever WrestleMania I watched live and I remember this visual iconically in my head of them sitting on the table spread across or sitting on two table.
Let me say that again, easy enough for me to say, guys, a table sitting on two ladders acting as like a platform, an edging Christian kind of just having like a platform to just slowly take down the belts and then sitting on the table with the titles and kind of soaking in the victory afterwards. So obviously a big time moment here, and obviously was just the first insolvement of a.
Three series match.
Then after this you get another Hudge tag team match or sorry, you don't want to gip over the next one. Terry Runnelds with the Fabulous Mula against the Cat in a cat fight with Valvius as the special guest referee. Two minutes and twenty four seconds. Not even a point this, but I will say in a big match, the only singles match on the card, crazy, the only one on one match, but it still was a cat fight, so
it technically wasn't a singles match. Crazy, I thought we finally found one guys, but no, they are a rarity in this wrestle native for sure to find one on one contest. Then a six person intergender match of China and two Cool defeating the Radicals of Perry Saturnine Malenko and Eddie Guerrero in nine minutes and thirty eight seconds.
Again another grudge tag team match, this time in the six way version, and this would kind of start the storyline between China and Eddie Guerrero as I guess a couple, so at least you had that to come out of it, Mamacita.
This is where Mamasita started.
Then a very underrated match the a two fall contest for the Intercontinental Championship and then the European Championship with kurd Angle defending both titles against chrisp. Ben Wah and Chris Jericho in a match that went thirteen minutes and
forty eight seconds. And it was a coming out party for all three of these guys, specifically kurd Angle, who was just on a terri since coming into the company in late nineteen ninety nine, and then Chris Jericho, obviously one of the most iconic and historic debuts when he broke in as Y two j and the first fall goes to Chris Benwa, who walks out as the Intercontinental Champion, and the second fall goes to Chris Jericho, who walks out as the European Champion, And just like that, kurd
Angle loses both the mid card times they so proudly carried into this wrestling. But a very good match honestly, and I mean that's a giving given the three guys in the contest for sure. And then another grudge tag team match with Kin and Rakishi along accompany of the Ring by Paul BarreR defeating Degeneration x'es X, POC and Road Dog a very forgettable period of time for Degeneration X for sure in a match time on four four minutes.
Again whatever, The best part about this match was probably Kane once again tombstoning Pete Rose in the middle of the ring. I believe this was the one where he was dressed as the chicken too, So that is really why this match felt so important, or felt important at all. Rather, it didn't feel so important. Why I think people still talk about it is because I believe this was the third time in a row that Kane would tombstone Pete Rose at a wrestling and then Pete Rose got a
stink faced by Rakkeishi. So an extra dessert for Pete Rhodse, if you will. And then we get to the main event of Triple H with Stephanie McMahon defending the World Championship or the WWF Championship against the Rock with Vince McMahon, Mick Foley with Linda McMahon and the Big Show with Shane McMahon, And like I said at the beginning of the show, it was very bizarre that they decided to go with this match a fatal four way. I believe it's the only fatal four way match for a world
title at a WrestleMania in the history of WrestleMania. They're just so rare because it is so gimmicky. And this wasn't just a fatal four way, it was an elimination of fatal four way. So I mean, like you were hoping to get the Rock in Triple H at WrestleMania, and I believe Triple H said on the Logan Paul podcast or whatever it's called the Paul Caz, I don't
know what the exact name is. Logan Paul's show that one of his biggest regrets was not having a one on one match with The Rock at WrestleMania, and he mentions that I believe it was a backlash or judgment day they would have, which was a month or two after this, him and The Rock would have that iconic one on one match that they thought they were gonna have here, and I believe it was a sixty minute iron Men match, a really good contest between the two,
and that's what should have been because with Stone Cold Steve Austin out, the Rock took the place of Steve Austin as the top tier babyface in the company, and Triple H took the shoes of the Rock as the top heel in the company. And these two were really fighting it out. And not to say that either were Stone Cold Steve Austin, but these were still two megastars and two stars that would have been the top guys in any other generation. And it felt a lot like
over compensation for not having Stone Cold Steve Auston. At the end the Undertaker, it felt like they were trying to make up for that lack of star power by just overloading the main event, and as we know, Vince whenever in doubt would think that putting his family on television would kind of peak people's interests, which is why every single McMahon was a manager, and I believe one of the gimmicks of this entire wrestleming was a McMahon
in every corner. So obviously Vince McMahon felt strongly about this, and the one thing I will say. The one thing I will say is that the mcfoley story, like the preceding three months or so and his program with Triple H at the matches, at the Royal Rumble and at No Way Out and Triple H retiring mcfoley kind of
made this match make sense. And obviously Linda McMahon was the one who brought mcfoley out of retirement for his one final shot at WrestleMania for the WWF Championship, So at least from the mcfoley standpoint, you really kind of felt an emotional attachment as to why he was put in this match.
Well, the lines, those six.
Men may never be the same after the Triangle Ladder match, and I wonder how many lives will be changed, and certainly changed forever.
After the fatal four way elimination match, mcfoley.
In what could be as final contest, turning the World Wisting Federation, along with Linda mcvn, the woman responsible for Bringey mcken Tonight's into tonight's main event.
Nick, all I can say is I'm very happy that tonight, finally you're going to have the opportunity to fulfill a lifelong dream WrestleMania in the main event.
Go for it.
Kevin Kelly's very obviously looking at the triangle ladder match, and nobody's letting anything, nobody's holding anything back.
Tonight. It is the biggest show in this year.
This is the biggest year in the WWS history, which makes it the biggest match in the history of the WWS, certainly the biggest match in my career, and thanks to Linda McMahon, mcfoley gets a second chance to make a last I want people talking about this match.
For the next ten years.
So I do believe that at WrestleMania, it's like a fairy tale for me, Kevin Kelly and Triple H Rock Big Show.
Fairy tales can come true. It can happen to you. But I won't be us tonight and won't company the final match of my career. Fairy tales will come true for me. I'll tell you what. Nobody there.
So Mick Foley obviously playing the underdog part of this whole, this whole story, and then the guy who really felt like the odd man out going in was the Big Show.
Uh.
He had a program with The Rock leading up to this wrestling, so I guess that was his in that he technically should have won the Royal Rumble. Then he defeated the Rock in no way out and was a way for him to come in. But even when you tried to play for Big Show's reason and Seae McMahon by his side to be a big player in this match, it really felt like he was the only guy that you knew had no chance at the world title.
Yeah yeah, wow at.
The Reason White Tonight there will be a new World Wrestling Federation Champion.
Check it out. Seven foot two, five hundred.
Pounds of the Big Show, the next World Wrestling Federation Champion.
Nothing against Bennie mac but that wild regime is out and the McMahon owns a thing.
Well that's now strictly pass because the Big Show and Shane ol' mack. Tonight, our era begins. I wish my mom was not there, but that being a side, tonight, Big Show, you will become the World.
Wrestling Federation Champion, the most electrifying man in sports entertainment. Tonight gets unplugged and Bick Foley will be retired for good and as far as triple each goes game over.
So they're trying to play on the thing that you know, Big Shows the biggest guy in the company. He's the new blood in a latways, had only been around for about eleven or thirteen months in WWE, and that shaming man is finally going to take his place as the new top.
McMahon in the business.
And obviously, I mean, if you fast forward twenty three years, obviously we know he has almost nothing to do with the business, which is kind of crazy to think about, but I mean it still was back at this point in time a reasonable angle to play as to why Big Show was kind of shoehorned into the main event. But again, he was the one that I think everyone kind of thought, like, Okay, he's the one guy that we know will not be walking out as the WWF champion.
But then you had Vince McMahon in the corner of the Rock, which was very bizarre, right. You know, Vince McMahon the over the top heel, the Rock, the top babyface in the company. So what exactly was Vince McMahon's angle for being in the corner of the Rock, aside from the fact that he just had resentment against Triple H and his daughter for aligning to kind of go against him.
Lency'll be in the Rocks corner tonight in the fatal four way elimination matchup.
Will you be a factor? Will I be a factor?
Well?
I would like to think that wherever I am, I'm some sort of a factor one way or the other.
Although, for the record, the Rock is very confident of becoming World Wrestling Federation Champion tonight at Wresselemania, and he's confident, I'm sure whether Vince mcmahnon is in his corner or not. Well, what about the other three McMahon family members who will be in the other three corners tonight?
Will they be factors?
I've heard that the McMahon family is dysfunctional. I'm not so certain that I would necessarily agree with that, although if you will recall I did say that at Wresselemania. I not only promised, I guaranteed to make it right.
I'll tell you what, I don't care what he says make it right. It's not about what's white and what's wrong. It's about who is the best. It's a night I'm.
Gonna prove it to the world, just like I always had the fortune night. I'm gonna show the world that I am the game. I'm gonna show the world who the man is. I'm gonna show who the world West One Federation Champion is. I will not be beaten because.
I won't allow it.
So you hear Vincent Man's very cryptic comments, you hear Triple H reaction to that, and you know Vince McMahon kind of cutting a promo almost like Vince mcmatt not like the over the top Misser Man character, saying that he'll make it right after you know, losing the Triple
H in their hardcore match. I believe at Armageddon nineteen ninety nine when Stephi McMann turned heel on him and he was gonna do that by lining with the rock and the last guy to hear from all this was the Royal Rumble winner and the favorite in a lot of ways to walk out as WWW champion, The Rock.
The time has drawn near. We're literally a brown cheer a lot. It's time.
Twelve months twelve months ago, after every interview, after every run in, after every backsteven, after every win, after every lost, after everything that don't have the Rock, and after everything a Rock.
Is gone back.
After every tupslam, after repremnable flaw, after every pedigree, the Rock says, this is if you can do it all over again.
He will say that finally the Rock's come back to wrestle Mania.
So the Rock confident as ever as he prepares for the fatal four way elimination match, and the match would kind of start going as you as you would have thought as big shows. The first one eliminated, then you get McK foley and the Rock team up on Triple H for a bit as it becomes a triple threat match, and then eventually it comes down to mcfoley and Triple H turning on trip on the Rock, as the whole angle was that he wanted Triple H for himself in
a one on one match. But ultimately mcfoley does get eliminated and we get the result that I think we all thought it was coming towards which was the Rock and Triple H would be down to the final two in this match. But before mcfoley leaves, he would hit Triple H with the barbed wire baseball bat for good measure.
So you have the Rock against Triple H. They do get out Sean McMahon, who obviously left the arena when he when Big ChIL got ELIMINATEDE comes to ring side and tries to interfere on behalf of Triple H and ends up knocking out his father with a steel chair. So now you have Triple A, you have vince ment Man get help to the back, and you have Sha
mcman at ringside helping Triple H against the Rock. But not before vince Ment Man could come back down to ringside and in his mind, as he said earlier in the show, make it right.
I remember on the small occasion, let us get lest they got this go tair.
You'll tell me you like.
Like you.
Man, and I had a chair and still you got to the fast the last.
He's different, he's differ. It's done. It's maybe come on, man, it is pretty.
Snow it man, just snow. He'll still tail just diff my tail here.
You roots the on there? What time? Have floods going on there?
No?
What what twice mac lay master.
Backnaim no hat no life is l one of them pair.
That's like, h don't mind what is going on it?
Blick wouldn't see so.
I can get pack it. I looked out there. What kind of doctor like he would pay that best?
Macmam? What is that about about? Took?
What said? They still a girl?
And then a little genius for bucking lee back? They pack they probably night. Then a big flam on my back and okay, it's what's the figs? He was the sentences that fall.
Yes, So.
Obviously you have Vincement man turn heel, which is classic Vincement man on the rock and align himself back with his daughter Seae McMann comes back in the ring. They embraced with one another. And this was crazy because the fans were literally littering the ring like there's a there's a visual at one point where you see Vince going to hug Stephanie and someone fools like a cup full of a liquid of some sort and it just drenches
Vince's back and people were pissed. And I think this was the first WrestleMania where the babyface did not come out victorious. Excuse me, guys, where the babyface did not become victorious or come out victorious as the Royal Rumble winner,
Like that's typically the payoff for WrestleMania. Not always, but it was typically and his story the year before this, Austin de Thrones, The Rock, The year before that, Austin d Thrones, Sean Michaels, the you know wrestling at twelve, Austin wins the belt from Brett Hart, Like it's usually that the babyface Roald Rumble winner would walk out as the champion, And this was a major swerve that I think was kind of overthought and overbooked because they were
trying to compensate for the lack of Stone Cold Steve Austin and the lack of the Undertaker. And maybe this was Vince's way to get back positioned as a top heel after spending so many months as a babyface, and obviously he was always the best heel, arguably the best heel in the history of the company, and this was probably a way for The Rock to have that same beef and vendetta towards Vince and you know the Vince McMahon regime, and what we would come to know is the McMahon Helmsley.
Regime, as Steve Austen did. And that's the best way I could put it.
But it's just tough to send this kind of swerve out a WrestleMania, although we'll get a Vince McMahon swerve the very next year as well, and The Rock once again would come out on the wrong end of that too. So unfortunate back to back years for The Rock at the hands of Vince McMahon. But although The Rock didn't walk out with the championship, he would get his retribution before the night was over.
Time. So, oh, do a dip? Theres the P?
What a step?
PERSI gott mean stepping in? Do you gonna get the PA? Somebody let some good at space. I'm like, you a good kid or fall by what step the name?
Name?
Do not?
My God not to play the fall right now?
You can't believe what I'm saying. My mom got to spring at a time.
Well he just take a three nigga and turn says, do.
Tell turn in?
Not that name.
That's stepping in the bad not the big of that by.
So they give the fans some kind of something to go home happy with, kind of akin to what we saw WrestleMania wrest Elimination Chamber this past week, but it would start this new storyline of Vince and Triple H aligned with one another. And look, I think it was a bit overbooked. I think wrestlings should typically be the big payoffs. But I understand why.
They did it. I just think it was over compensation and I think in.
Retrospect everyone involved would have rather just the Rock versus Triple H for the World Championship.
But anyway, guys, that's all I got for you today.
I hope you reviewed this review of Wrestling in two thousand or you enjoyed this review of Wrestling in two thousand. As always, you can get me on Twitter at oh my God, I can't speak today.
Guys.
You can get me on Twitter at ad to Market.
You can get Matt on Twitter at Wrestling Underscore Audio, or you can email him each and every week for the ww podcast Mailbag. Anyway, guys, I hope you have a good rest of your weekend. I'll be talking to you next week.
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