Javo Caretto Junior and Man, I am so excited. I'm actually kind of shaking it right now, sir. How are you doing tonight?
I'm good Man. Thanks for having me, mav.
I appreciate you absolutely, man, And I just want to say before we start, Man, growing up watching you, you were one of those heels.
Man.
I hated watching whenever you could win or even when you came out. At times, I just it made my blood boil. And as I got older, I started to appreciate more and more just how well that you could generate heat just so quickly.
Man. It was incredible and I absolutely loved seeing it.
You know how many people tell me that I just did this La Comic Con this last weekend, and I got it. I got it a hundred times and people were like, Man, I used to hate you. Man, thank you for doing your job, and I go, Man, I was a heel. That was my job. My job was if you like me, then you know that was doing something wrong. Eddie and I used to when we were tag team and as little Carreros we first started off. We were heels. People forget that, but we were heels
and people hated us. And you know the office was like, hey, how come you guys don't try to win, like you know, double frock splashes, And we're like, why would we do that? Why would we do something pretty because the first thing you do, like, God, those guys suck. But man, that was a great move. We asked. That's where the cheat to win and light chie steell came or came about because we never won as heels. We never won fair
and square, never with a move. It was always hitting with the belt, putting your feet on the ropes, grabbing a handful of tights. That's how we were raised. If you're heels, you don't do pretty stuff, and that's what we did. We just kind of learned how to cheat with style. I guess you could call it.
It's a good way to put it.
And I was just thinking like, yeah, as heels, you don't want to do anything pretty or anything that's that cool. But maybe like double chair shots or something real quick when the ref isn't looking, something like that can maybe be good or it could work because it's a little pretty.
That's the thing. This is one thing that I see with wrestling right now a lot. You know, we have a super gray area with wrestling, for sure, but everything is so planned out and so choreographed that, you know, double chair shots at the same time. I mean, unless it was Edgie Christian that they set somebody up and did the concertos man on the fly like that. You know. I've been in one hundred bar fights. I number once was like coordinating a double chair shot with somebody else,
you know. So we just needed one, you know. And I just saw a just the other day. I just saw somebody sent it to me and I forgot all about it. But it was me and Eddie against Rakishi and Mark Henry. So I mean, on paper, there's no way we can win, but of course we cheated to win at the very end. You know, Mark Henry had Eddie in a press lamb. I came in, Uh, the ref was doing something with Wakishi. I came in with a chair and nailed Mark in the back of the of the of the thigh or the sh or the
the calf. He went down. Eddie fell on top and covered him and was all right. I think he you know, I think he put he made Mark submit because he put him like the in Eddie's lasso from Olpasso. But you know, we got a lot of heat from that because we're like, there's no way these two small little dudes are supposed to be these two giants. But we did. We cheated, and we would we did.
That's the fun part about being the heel.
You can find ways to cheat and you know what, it goes with the character and that's what makes it so much more fun.
Honestly.
Yeah, you know what after like, and it was cool. I mean the time, but you know, the nWo and d X were called was you know, the cool heels, and it kind of changed the game a little bit because you know, you cheered him and then they became baby faces and man, we did not want to be cheered at all period over that we didn't want to be cheered. And when we did those vignettes from one week to the next, when they aired, we went from being the biggest heels on the on the card too.
We came out and they cheered us and as we were walking up me and they looked at each other like we're, oh, man, we're we're good guys, like that wasn't our, That wasn't our. And we even went to triple ahs, like, man, what happened? He goes you guys became too entertaining, and it was good. It was a good switch, for sure, But that wasn't We didn't do that to be baby faces. We didn't want to be baby faces.
Of course.
Not, of course, not one question I do want to ask you tonight, and I think this is a fair one to start off with. So how did you learn And if you don't mind asking me asking who taught you how to generate so much heat? How did you learn how to do that?
Man?
That is literally in our DNA and we just grew up doing that. Or we used to watch my dad and his brothers, so Eddie's brothers, you know, be in Mexico or be in Japan and fight their way back to the ring or Puerto Rico fight their way back to the ring and having to crawl out the dressing room window to get out of there because people want to kill him. And you know, as a kid, I was like, wow, this is pretty this was awesome. Like
it was, I mean, it was scared. But as we got away and they were all like, you know, you're toasting beers for like, man, that was awesome. That's how we grew up. We wanted to fight our way back to the locker room every single night, like against fans and anybody came in. That's that was our goal. So we just learned how to dreangenerate heat like that, and
it's just it's very easy. In fact, I did it again not too long ago when I did like a private signing and people were asking questions about Rave stereo and dominic and stuff, you know, as I'm doing the you know, the the online signer or the the I guess it's virtual signing. And I had said something like something like, all right, Ray, enough with using the Guerrero stuff. We get it good though, we don't need your help.
Somebody kind of you know, came back on that. I don't even know people were really watching that, and they came back. We're like, oh, Javo, you know, blah blah blah this and that, and I'm like, that's that's not heat. I go, you want to see heat, just watch? And I called up Ray and I go, Ray, don't believe anything you got to hear. I'm gonna tweet some stuff out right now. It's got nothing to do with you. I love you, man. He's like, all right, cool, no problem.
So I did it. And talked about how he's robbing the Guerrero's and and he should be given that money to uh to eighties kids and all this different stuff. And I think I did one or two tweets. People were in an uproar. They went crazy, and literally after after I let it go for about a day and I literally said, Okay, guys, uh I, this is not thing different than I did in two thousand and five
when I turned on Ray. There's nothing different whatsoever. I got you again, I go, that's how easy it is for us to generate heat like that and get people believe in it because it's rooted in truth. It could be if I was really a jerk, I could absolutely talk like that and be like, you know, you guys are making money off the girl name. It's all the work, and people don't like Like, I don't know, said once, that's just something we learned doing and we grew up doing that.
Absolutely, you have such a grip on people, and it is incredible. Honestly, I've always really admired just how well you can control the crowd with that, just so easily.
So uh with that?
Would you say that your family and seeing how they performed as heels was some of your greatest inspiration growing up.
Absolutely, they knew how to be heels man. The original Los Guerreros were my dad and miuncle Hector as the Alomo Buster as they were called, and they were the heels bad and not big time like they you know, they people hated them. You know, they were feuding with the Rock and Roll Express and Windom and Rotundo and and uh Florida. And I watched it firsthand and it was it was awesome just to see those guys be masters of their craft.
Fair enough.
So uh, I also do want to ask you around what age did you start training, because being in a family like that, I imagine it may have been relatively young.
Yeah, there was no age that I started training. And we grew up with the rusting ring in our backyard. So I heard Miley Cyrus talk about it one time. They're like, well, how did you know? When did you know you wanted to be a country singers? Just like when did I not want to be the same thing with us? There was no time like, okay, now are you going to start getting in the ring. No, we always sit in the ring like that was our that was our swing set. We didn't have a swing set.
We had a ring and you know we used to playing it and Eddie and I broke both learned to walk in a rustling ring. We we said Campa underneath it, and that was like our tent, you know. So there was no time that I was like, okay, let me start training for wrestling. You know, when I decided to go pro. Now I did Paul show up and start working with some of my uncles and my dad and
stuff on. You know, I could always do the moves, but I didn't know why I was doing the moves, so really worked more on psychology and that kind of stuff. But there was not a time that I just could always wrestle.
That's fair.
You grew up doing the whole thing and it was just in your blood at that point.
That was That's the way we fed our family for the last eighty five years is through wrestling. So way before it was you know popular and people were making millions of dollars, No, it was they were just we were just putting food on the table and trying to pay a mortgage, you know, through wrestling, and that's before they were big and popular and worldwide. That was you know, I grew up doing that. So that's why that respect and just that I guess knowledge rustling knowledge is just there.
You just don't know where it came from. It's just there.
That makes sense.
So would you say that your character is more just a uh how do I put this? Just a larger than life version of yourself that you've kind of created and put in the ring that has been almost evolved through your family and just how you guys have done it for so long.
My rusting character is for sure, it's it's the the my alter ego just just turned way up. You know, that's who I who I can be. How don't want to be that guy? But you know, my friend, my friends sometimes will call me the Mulk, the Mexican Hulk, because we'll be, you know, somewhere and someone messes with you know, there's always that one. There's always the one guy.
Somebody's messes with my wife or or one of my friends, and before you know it, I grew to six ' four real fast, and they're like, man, this this guy's this guy's a jerk. I'm like, well, what do you expect? Bro? You mess with the wrong one, bro?
And sometimes people pull it out of you it is what it is, not that you want to be, it's just sometimes you got to be.
But uh, all right, So.
My uncle wanted me to ask you because he's a huge fan as well. But uh, something that he wanted to ask you about. Uh, it's actually because of a movie.
Now.
He had claimed that he had seen the movie Airplane two and uh, there's a scene where they run out of coffee on the plane. He has claimed that you see a couple of wrestlers all of a sudden are in the alley or the isisleway and they're.
Like duking it out for a second. He says.
One of them looks like almost a young version of Eddie, but Eddie would have been too young at the time. Do you know if that's maybe one of your uncles or something like that, one.
Of my my uncle Hector, you know, my uncle Hector mancal monda my father all you know, because we were in the LA area always, you know, dabbled in movies, you know. So my my father was in the One and Only with the Henry Winkler, among other things. My uncle Hector was in one of the Bad News Bears movies that he doubled, you know, the main actor Michael Mondo, after he kind of retired from Russell became a stuntman, was a stuntman for you know, twenty years in Hollywood.
So it absolutely could have been. I just I just they've been They've done a lot of things.
Okay, that's that's totally fair. So another friend of mine, his name's Kanan Rule, used to serve with him over here in the UK, a really good friend of mine. I actually asked him if he had any questions for you, and one of his was what I thought might have been a very good one. He asked, what was the conversation like between you and your family when you were getting ready to make your debut, when you were going pro what was that conversation like?
How do you even know that there was a conversation, To be honest, I think it was just like all right, just stepping there is I mean, it just was a progression. It wasn't ever like a conversation to sit down. No, it was I wish there was a sit down and they could have told me what to watch out or what to look out for, but we didn't. We just just gotten in it.
That's fair, Actually makes a lot of sense.
Considering just how in depth you already were with the whole business at that point.
I mean, it was practically your life up to that point.
That's there was. It wasn't like they pushed rustling on us. We just that was rustling. We ate, breathed, slept, dreamed, wrestling. It was there at all times. You know. I tried to distance my kids from it, just because it can't. It can consume, you know for sure. But you know, the you know, we all worked at the you know, we all knew. We always set up brings as kids, you know, for my grandfather's promotion and sell tickets to sweep up and sell popcorn and all that stuff. You know,
So it was just our family business growing up. So you just went to the business.
Makes sense, all right.
So another question from my buddy over there, So how did it feel to debut Raymistereo when it was that time? How did it feel to work with him on his debut?
I had, I had would work with him a whole bunch in w CW. So wasn't like it was different than Anthony new Ask him what it was like working with me? I would I had already been in in WWE. So he came in fresh, nervous as hell, and I had to calm him down, like relaxed, dude, you've done this. And we came out and tore the house down.
That's fair.
It's almost like coming out with another old friend and just being like, Okay, hey, it's just another day at the office, different company, no different.
Yeah, you know totally, you know, because you remember we all came from w CW and it was like, you know, nineteen of us that had come over, you know, so we weren't Vince's favorites, you know, because of the fact that we came from a rival promotion that he was trying to squash and he did. And if you know, everybody sees that invasion angle, it was kind of blah, you know, everything's oh, I could have been so much better.
It was what it was. You know, who knows. But you know, you get locks in the shuffle a little bit because now you're throwing to the mix with all ww guys and you got to you got to earn a spot again. I came from a good little spot in WCW. But you start, no when he once WWF at the time, it was so you know, you have some matches but it's not like you know, your big show where you're sitting for four or five hundred pounds
and they're going to put the strap on you. So that match with Ray, I'd already been there for I guess maybe two years, maybe a year and a half when he came in. That was my chance to showcase myself as well. So after that, not only did he get a good little push, I did as well. People started using me and going, Wow, we didn't know child could do that. I'm like, well, you just didn't give him a chance.
That's fair.
I mean I just watched the match, probably an hour or two before we even hopped on here, just to refresh myself a little bit with some of your work, and uh, looking at all I could think was this is a very technically good match. Uh, Chavo, you do very well on the mic all the time. I still remember seeing you and just thinking, God, I just want to punch him in the face. He just every time that he gets on there exactly and it's like your
heel work just does so well. And then seeing later on when you you know it was a work, but you injured Ray mystereo for a little bit with the I quit match and everything, and seeing your mic work when you put the mask on, pretending to be him and everything.
All I was thinking, this man, this guy's just so good at his job.
I still kind of hate him a little bit, but he's just doing it so right ady.
I remember working with that when we did the mask on and I worked Eugene Nick, and you know, I was doing all the raised moves and the funny the story was at the end, you know, I was supposed to be the six nine and not landed and then take the mask off and you know whatever. So I was, you know, at the ring before and I didn't really rehearse too much because it's just just hurts. It hurts. You know. I kind of maybe can make some ideas in the ring, but I would never rehearse. So Vince
is like, so you're gonna miss the six nine ers. Yeah, he's like, well let me see it. I said, like right now, there's nobody in the arena. It's like me, like for the people at the ring. He's like, yeah, it's really hard to do all that, like and crash and burn like that when it's you know, the red light camera's not on. You know, red light's not on. So I'm like, okay, so I had a totally just cold and not even ring gear, you know, and just crash and burn, you know, try to do six or
nine and totally eat it. And this was like, oh yeah, that was great. So I ended up doing that in the ring and you know, beating the heck out of Nick Eugene doing all the raised moves but then not making you know, missing that that you know that six or nine on purpose of course, and then taking the mask up and come in in and just stalking Nick and then having him make the comeback right there. People
went nuts. People were going crazy like oh shit, old and then you know I beat him at the end, but you know, I really was kind of eating them up before everything was moving was mine in the ring, except for once once I took that mask off. Then it was like, man, who's makers comeback? Was pretty cool?
That's fair.
I actually did get to see that match, him making the comeback and then seeing him hit the three amigos on you. For a second, all I was thinking was like, man, that's mad.
Disrespectful, but it works in this story right now. And honestly, it was a good.
Match to watch, and I haven't really seen much of Eugene, not really somebody that I really saw too much of. But honestly, it wasn't a bad match, and I'm not going to say if you carried it, he carried it. I think it was a very good effort by both members, and I can appreciate a match like that no matter who's in the ring.
Just the way that performance went.
It was great. Nick Nick Nismore was great to work with. It's so easy. You know, he'd been around and read the VW and stuff for a while, so by the time we did that match, he was you know, he was great. It was easy.
Workless absolutely, so I also do want to ask you about us, So how was I guess, what was the biggest difference between the w CW locker room and the w W lock room If there was really a difference with how things went or do you think it was just the same or do you think there's anything different?
You know, it was wrestling was wrestling, of course, it was a little different, just because you know, w c W, the wrestlers had a lot of power because of the fact just the way that it was set up. You know, we didn't really have one true boss. You know, the boss was Ted Turner and then aol and then Time Warner. You know, Eric sure was the boss, but he still had an answer to people. He wasn't the end all be all, you know. So when we get to w W E or w B at the time, you know,
it was Vince. Vince said, this has happened is happening. So that was pretty cool and you kind of see how a wrestling company should be run, you know in a sense. But you know there they were both they both were great, and they both were they both sucked. It depends the time it was and and when when I first started WCW, it was amazing. At the end, you know, when all the different people changed, the owners and stuff, you could see the product was diminishing. It
wasn't as cool as it was. And the kind of the same with w B. When we were there all the way from you know, two thousand to about two thousand and seven or eight before they got really corporate, it was awesome. Man, I loved working there. Then at the very kind of the end was it wasn't as it just people are just worried about other things than
the wrestlers. It just got such big business, you know, and it's kind of cool to see it kind of revert back to really caring, you know, you see the product. It's really coming up. You know.
The Triple EH era absolutely.
I think with the corporate era that you're kind of talking about, you know, the PG era, it did kind of stunt some things, and I know the changes can be definitely a little bit annoying. But I also do want to ask, so, throughout your career and throughout the different companies that you work for, how much control have you had over your character and what you were going to be doing.
You know, you don't you can suggest. So one thing you learned is that you know, those writers they're writing for in w W, the writing for Sena Batista, you know, d X, they weren't really writing for us because you know, we weren't the main card guys. You know, so you kind of you had to sometimes take what they gave you and make it work, you know, all the Kurban White era or whatever. You know, you just kind of had a you took you know, chicken and made chicken
salad out of it. You know. So a lot of times, though, you know, whenever I really started doing stuff like the stuff that when we did the whole lightsheet steel stuff, that was me and Eddie. We went to Vince and pitched it. He liked it. You know, when I worked with Ray turning on Ray, that was me pitching it to write to Vince. You know, when me seeing punks started working, it was right to me, and Kine started working, it was right to Vince. So it wasn't like they
had this idea for you. We had the idea and we sold it to the boss. That's how it worked.
That's fair.
So when you won your cruiserweight championships throughout a w CW now watching it through I'll be honest. I saw a short documentary about you on YouTube about this, but uh, did you feel like that was someone of your first steps into becoming like a major player and being recognized or how did you feel about it?
Absolutely? You know, you go into a by talent rich cruiserweight division. Though you know by the time I came in, man she's the it wasn't just eighty you know de Maliko ben Wat anymore. It was you know, Jericho, it was Mysterio, was all of the the Mexican boys from Mexico, you know, Kid min Man it was a it was a really deep cruiserweight division. So getting to be you know, become the guy the champ there and the cruizwie champ. That was really cool. I was like my first step
to it. But then getting w W had to start over again, and I did, you know eventually see he's kind of you. I can see you flounder a little bit because you're trying to find your spot, you know, and that year you and half seen like a long time.
And sometimes you got to start over and you got to really prove yourself.
It takes time.
Though it was fine, which was cool. I was cool with it, no big deal of it.
Absolutely.
So I do want to ask you about the Kerwin White gimmick a little bit.
Uh. I just want to ask so, whose.
Idea was it and how did you feel about it from the beginning to end, because I felt like it was entertaining, but it was a little off at times, and I felt like, you know what, you were doing your job regardless no matter what, and you really did put on a show with it.
It was Vince. Vince came to me. I came walk off and playing from Japan and he goes, hello, Kerwin and I was like, okay, what does that mean today? You're going to do no your Hispanic heritage and you're gonna become a white guy. And I'm like, you know, you got two options. You say no and go well the Vince, the boss thought or something for you, and you turn it down. That could be the because of
death right there could be your termination right there. Or you can take what he's given you and try to do it the best you can. And that's kind of what I did. In fact, you know, I told Vince. You know, it was a different time. Of course, it was very racist gimmick. You know. I was trying to piss everybody off. I was pissing off my Hispanic culture by denouncing them, and then I was becoming a Caucasian
guy and making fun of them too. I was dressing very you know, over the top and golf and just like you know, you know we don't dress like that, Oh yes, you do. You know. I was just kind of trying to piss everybody off. So I told Vince, I mean, I had a meeting with him. I said, look, man, if we're gonna do this, to do right, I want to I want to end up like in a white sheet, and he was like, oh, oh wow, great. I said absolutely, I go, you don't have to do it, you know,
like you said, k kk, I go. We could do something to where, you know, I'm pretending to get in my Halloween costume getting ready, you know, and I'm a ghost but it's got a hood. And he was like, well that's great. Anything like that he'd like. He he loved that stuff, so you know, of course, I think what happened was that the gimmick got a little two racist for for the PG era, I was working all like minority guys, you know, like shelling Benjamin into Jerry
and stuff like that. You know, so you know, it it ran its course. And then when Eddie passed the next day, I was Cholblborough game. So that's how that ended.
Yeah, it's unfortunate what happened with Eddie, and I didn't want to make this whole episode about him, but obviously his story and your story do overlap some so it's definitely gonna be mentioned. But I did want to focus on your career. This is your show, man, but you know, Eddie is obviously a big part of your show as well, so it makes perfect sense to you know, bring him up all the time because it's part.
Of you, man. But uh yeah, so let me see.
So when you eventually went to Luca Underground, how did you feel about the creative processes there as well as the constant vignettes and almost the movie quality stuff that was going on there all the time.
Luchs my baby man. I was supervisor producer on the show, and you know, I went from w W then I had a little short stand TEENA and then kind of stepped away from rustling for a second. Then got the call from luc Underground and I'm like, well, you know, their explained to me. I'm like, okay, it's a TV show, Mark Burnett's producer, and okay, well who's running it. I'm like, who's your rusting guys? You know, I'm like, oh, well go you I know it's a TV show. We're still
gonna have thing. So that's when we came brought me on as a producer, and I learned really quick. Uh. I guess the knowledge that I didn't know I had for wrestling because I was you know, talking everybody. I was you know, helping with set, design, wardrobe, uh, you know, creative.
I was the only when we first started the first season, I was the only agent, So there's times when I was wrestling, I was getting I was stretching with in the gorilla position with my headset and call in the match to the you know, the director and as I'm stretching, uh literally literally get run to the to the ring, get my match on and come the back and all sweating and pick up the system finished. So that was quick, like like how much you know? It was pretty awesome. Man.
I loved I loved the vignettes. I think what happened was we were still filming the first season when the first episode aired, so as I didn't really know to expect. As I saw that first episode with all the cinematography and the cinematic aspect of that show, usually it's production trying to keep up with the wrestlers. Man, it was the rustlers we I took. I pulled the Russels sides and guys, did you see that first episode. They're like, yeah, I go, we need a step up a game, and that's,
you know, kind of what happened. We you know, I go, this is something that is something we did not expect. But it was really cool and it was very flattering to see people like TNA and and ww steal from us, steal the ideas, the cinematic aspect of the show, the way we filmed vignettes, different things, and it was like, oh, it's it's you know, it's it's flattering to see that they actually stole it.
And it was a a little bit different from WWE and TNA at the time because it had more theatrical approach, I would say, to wrestling at that point, and it was just so different that it gave a nice alternative that was almost I don't want to completely compare it to ECW in the nineties, but it was, you know, just that alternative route where it's like, you know what, I'm getting tired of seeing the top two being WCWWWE at the time. You know, there's this alternative. It was
something that was worth it, I thought. And I can greatly appreciate uh Luke Underground and everything that went on there. And I still remember, I believe it was the first episode you turn heel. Immediately at the end of the show, it was just like there it is again.
Yeah, I toltally. I mean, well we went from so I worked, you know, Blue dem at the end of the show was with the show the Bats a little lackluster, and right away we turned the heel started chair shotting everybody and it was like, oh, there I am, there is and they let me wrong with it for a while. It was pretty cool.
Yeah.
Absolutely, I mean, you've always been a great heel, why not let you continue it. I didn't know that you were that heavily involved with Looch Underground.
That's interesting, big time man. That was That was That was awesome. That kind of got me started into Hollywood, to be honest. It got me started from you know, from the next thing I did from there was a show called Grim that was like on NBC where they had called me to play a character but to also choreograph the wrestling in it. So I'm like, I think I can do this, So I did it. You know, I go, I, well, I do it for wrestling all the time, but I just don't know if if it's
the same thing. And sure enough I was able to do that, and then I went to Glow and that just started my my Hollywood career.
It's fair and it's funny that you mentioned that, just because I don't think a lot of people understand how often that wrestling.
Uh God, how do I put this?
Wrestling theatrics are used in Hollywood today. A lot of people don't realize it, especially people who will say things like, oh, we really watch that stuff.
It's all fake.
It's like, what's the difference realistically.
So the car crash that you know that Tom Cruise just did or Fast and Furisted did, well, they rehearsed it for a week. That make it fake. I mean, it's still a car crash even though they know exactly what's going on. So it's like pro wrestling, we're still falling eight feet through tables, through the ground. I mean, whether they're rehearsed it or not, it's it's still the car crash. So it's people that don't get it. They
kind of don't know what they're talking about. In a sense, they don't have to like wrestling, just like you don't have to like the Fast and Fears movies. But at the same time, you can't deny that what we do is this live stunt show that there's no retakes, that we just do.
It exactly, and I mean even showing a friend of mine, I think it was last night, because he's not really a wrestling fan. But he'll go along and he'll watch whatever, just for the heck of it. I had showed him the match where an undertaker threw mcfoley off the hell in the cell and immediately he's like, well, how can they really fake that?
I'm like, what do you mean fake it? He just fell?
Well that's the thing people don't. They can't grasp that that those stunts and those actual falls, like we really did it. I remember my one of my friend's wives, you know, I was hit by with a chair somewhere. She said, oh that, yeah, that must be a rubber share And I said, do you know how much it costs to engineer a rubber share? I said, So in Young Rock we had you know, our our actors doing
this ladder match. Well, we're trying to protect him as much as we can, so we ordered a ladder that was the kind of rubber ladder, you know, even though they had time on it, so it was like this hard rubber ladder. They had us, you know, paint it and make it look like a real ladder. It was thirty thousand dollars for one ladder, one ladder that we didn't even really use. So I'm like, where do you think you just get this rubber ladder ap. I mean it's rubber share ap and a rubber chair is going
to hurt a lot more than his tiel chair. It's hard rubber, I said, you still gotta be able to sit on it. You gotta bas It can't just fall apart. It's not like it's bulso. Would you know you can tell when you get him a chair and explodes like in a movie, Well, then it's just nuts. That's a bulso wood chair. I'm like, these aren't. Those are real ladders that are following it, and her she almost couldn't believe it, like, but but that hurts. I'm like, hello, yes,
it hurts. You were right, and she was like, how do you do that? She couldn't believe she thought it. This can't be real. It's real.
Absolutely.
Scripted doesn't necessarily mean fake.
And that's what some people don't really.
Understand exactly exactly. I remember walking through the airport one time and somebody recognized me and he was like, javas up and his friend's like, who's that and he goes all the child girl's carusser and the guy literally like in front of me to my faces. I don't watch that fake s h I t. And I was like, uh, you want to see how real I am? And he looked at me and I said keep talking, I'll show you how real I am. And he was like uh uh And I go, oh, not that fake, is it? Yeah?
And I was kind of like just like, don't be a dummy man, and he was literally his friend was like, yeah, that's right job. Will you tell him? Bro? Like, that's like you can't just insult somebody's job right there, you know. I mean it's like talking to like, oh, you're you're a you're a police officer, or you're stealing your or whatever whatever. Just demean him. He's still a police officer. That could, you know, mess you up.
Yeah.
I hear that definitely.
Uh So, another friend wanted me to ask you about if you still have the God's Gift belt by chance?
The oh the God the Gift from the God.
Spelt yes, yes, that one.
I do not have that one. That one was definitely a prop that was the show's belt that they kept everything. I don't we have no idea where it's at, but they kept it all.
Somewhere, okay man.
That it was such a cool looking one too.
Honestly, it had.
Some cool belts. That was cool because the medallions would go on. You know, you haven't win a tournament with the medallions on. It was pretty cool. It's very you know, Lichitt Girls, very had some very supernatural elements to it, where we had a guy that was a dragon that would fly off. We had a guy that was aerostar that was you know, inter dimensional, being a traveler. You know, so we we kind of could do that because it was such a like a TV show and not a
reality wrestling show. You know, how does that lie in in w W E or maybe well, aw a little bit. You have the the Lucosaurus kind of doing some stuff, but you know, we all nobody knows things. He's a dinosaur, you know.
We suspend belief to a certain extent, but not too too much, right right, all right? So I do also want to ask you, uh so, how or what was your favorite parts about being involved with lujan around What was your favorite things about it?
Lucihow on ground was everything? Man? I loved it. I loved putting out a rival product, a different product than everybody else, you know, and the guy just starting up a wrestling company really from the ground level. That was great. I loved different part of it. It was a lot of work, don't get me wrong, But I learned so much,
you know. Really that started shaping my Hollywood career. You know, that kind of gave me the stepping stone to get to the next level, to the next level, to the next level of type.
Thing that makes sense.
So I've heard that you recently worked on The Iron Claw and you were working with all the actors on how to move and everything. So how did that experience go for you?
Yeah? So much more than that, man. So basically, you know, the director contacted me once we decided to do it. You know, we gave me the script. I read the script, edited things that I didn't like, change things up because I'm a wrestler, I know, rusting terminology. And then you know, they had he had wrestling scene in there. We had to come up with a scene I got to run that buy him, kind of shoot some ideas off him and which we agree to do something next. You know,
I'm teaching the actors from scratch. They're not wrestlers, they're actors. And after we teach and rehearse and you know, both sides and then I'm behind the camera with the director and we're directing that scene, changing angles, you know, working with cameras, working with with the DP which is the director of photography, like really working with all that, and then in the editing process, you know, so it's so much more than just you know, teaching the actress moots.
Man, I didn't know that you were that deep into it. And what did you think of the final product once it came out?
I loved it, you know, it was It's a tough story because it's you know, it's a true tragedy, tragedy story, you know, true tragic story. But I just would really loved, you know, how how it came out and told the story of this family that had so much loss, but you had somebody kind of rose up out of it in a sense. And god, man, I just I just
loved it, you know. I love that the way that we were able to tell a tell the story or make a movie about men have I mean feelings because a lot of times we're not allowed to really in movies and in Hollywood and stuff. You just have to be this tough, crashingtect guy. But to have somebody vulnerable like that, like Zac Eirfron was, you know, I was, I think just a cool, just twist on movie making.
I agree, And I think the message that you just put across as well, mentioning men having feelings, that's kind of what from what I've seen from Dark Side of the Ring in between the movie as well, that Fritz kind of tried to suppress that and just try to act like it wasn't allowed to be like you weren't allowed to really show that no matter what was going on, to seem.
Like well, yeah, I mean we think about it, you know, Fritz, it was like my grandpas old school. You know, men don't cry, you know, you know, you you suck it up and go. You know, That's that's kind of what it was. You know, we all have that grandpa or uncle or whatever in our family. That was just that they were just tough guys. It was a different it was a different era. You know, Thank God that we were able to feel in a sense. You know, I mean,
look at all the awareness of mental health now. You know, ten fifteen years ago, you didn't talk about that. You just kept it to yourself, whether you had bipolarism or any of the other mental health issues or struggles you were kind of especially for a man, you were very quiet about it. And now it's really coming to light and we're able to help a lot of people, and I think that we're changing.
For the good, absolutely, And something that I'd like to bring up, and I hope this isn't too far for you man, bringing up pills and everything with Eddie and everything, but something that a lot of people, especially in the Old Guard, used to just take pain pills constantly to hide both physical pain and sometimes did lead to emotional things happening and whatnot.
And you know that's something that.
I don't think a lot of people really could register that men at times, yeah, you still felt pain no matter how much you tried to suck it up and just keep going right.
And then that line with you know, the opioid epidemic that was in Hollywood, that I mean Hollywood, that was in the United States where everybody was you know, how easy was it for people to get pills? And you see documentaries on it now and they were just giving them out, just giving them out to people. You come in see a doctor in a thirty station and he's
throwing you one hundred Viking ins. You know, so there was you know, a huge and we're still dealing with it, you know, a huge opioid epidemic in the United States. And that didn't just go into wrestling. It went to all aspects of life. It wasn't just wrestlers that died. It was you know, students and lawyers and doctors and just everything. It really affected. It's almost like that was
the latest drug phrase. When you had the you know, crack epidemic in the in the in the eighties, you had the opioid epidemic down this in the two thousands, Fetanohl going on, all this stuff, you know. So, but it's a it was a definite problem, man. It was something that wasn't just a specialized to wrestling. Everybody was doing it absolutely, So I'm super glad that that's coming to light now. And you know, if you go try to get a painkill now, it's like they do not
give them out anymore. It's you know, thank god.
Absolutely something else that I didn't want to ask you about, the Iron Class, so it didn't include one of the von Erik brothers. That stuck out to me towards the end as a wrestling fan and knowing.
The history can you shed a little bit more light on that?
For me, I was just a little lost on why they didn't include the last one.
Yeah, okay, so let's let's look at this movie not as a Rustling fan, as cinema frame somebody who watches movies regular Joe that doesn't know anything about wrestling, and you watch this movie, which is the majority of people who watched this movie. It wasn't catered to a Rustling fan because rusting fan is a very small handful. You cater to the masses. And just think, now we this is a two hour, nineteen minute movie. Already you have one two suicides in there and a death and two
deaths actually, and now we throw in another suicide. How much you know? I don't think. And what's one thing that the death is that Sean Dirk and the director that I mentioned to him the same thing when I read the script. I said, you know there was another von Eric that killed himself, right, And he's like, yeah, the film wouldn't have survived it. It was just I mean, how much can you could you know? Keep this? It's not a This isn't a Netflix mini series or a
docu series where it's got episode thing. No, this is a one sit down movie. And right now in Hollywood, you have a three hour movie, you're gonna lose audience members because of our short attention spans. Now, you know, if I if I see a movie it's three hours, like, I'm not gonna watch it. It's just too long for me. I can't sit down for three hours and see and see that it's not you know that it's just not
done as much anymore. So you got the choice when you're you know, you got a studio a twenty four that is expecting you to put out a movie, not a wrestling movie.
We're not.
This isn't a movie that's being shown in WW network. So that's where you're at. And if you really get into it. The first child that died, he was they'd really taught touch on it. He was electrocuted as a kid when they were living in that trailer, traveling town to town. You know, electricity and traders weren't the standards. Weren't where they are now. Well that there's treaders plus in the trader tongue was electric was electrified. The kid touched it, his five year old kid, seven year old.
I don't know if his age actually touched it, got electrocuted. It was in the middle of winter, fell down in a puddle of melted snow and drowned right there. We didn't include that either. We didn't include that David, who's was named after I believe his mother's brother, had also died tragically. I mean, where where were we going to stop?
Yeah?
Movie, it's a two hour, nineteen minute movie, or which is already long. So if you think about it now, that makes sense, right, it makes sense. Not just man, you know, it sucks that they couldn't put Chris in there, but it was just it was just too much.
Yeah, and I agree with that.
I just wanted to hear it from somebody that was involved with the script and everything.
Watch The Dark Side of the Ring and you know you can hear that story or or you know, there was a little fun error, you know turn affairs and stuff that were that were done that kind of told more of the story. But you know, that's it. Just that's a tough one.
Yeah, absolutely, Uh.
I really appreciate you going into that a little bit with me, just because it, uh, it does help to shed some light on it and have the explanation from somebody that was so involved with the script and everything.
Then a little insighting in movie making, you know, and how many you know, not documents but biopics that you see out there, you know, tell the whole story, you don't. You don't hear it on when you see Ray. You know, with uh Jamie Fox, there was a lot they left out and they had to. It's just a it's a movie. It's a two two two and a half hour movie. You know, if you look at anybody, you know the Queen biopic, you know, there's a lot that you leave out.
You can't conclude everything. It's not a book. So that's if any any biopic that you see, it is good to these stuff out. It has to. You can't just don't. There's not enough time, fair enough.
So yeah, I really appreciate you going over that with me. So back on the topic of wrestling. So, when you had won your ECW title and you were with WWE at the time, how did it feel at that time? Were you really excited about it? Did you think this was the next step for you?
How did you feel?
Yeah, you know, anytime they put a championship on your championship belt, it's always an honor for sure. It's not like they're just just giving it to you, you know, for the most part there it's always an honor, you know, to held the the e c W Championship. So when Eddie and I grew up, we always pretended that we
were our goal, you know, our goal. But our dream in a sense was to become the tag team champions of the world because we would see his brothers, my dad and my uncles uh be the you know, be the tacking champions, and we would as kids, we would play tag team Champions in our backyard with their belts. We'd get the belts and pretend that we were, you know, the champions. So that was our our this goal you call it, but we didn't. It wasn't like it was
a goal, but that's what we wanted to do. So when we achieved that in WWE Madison Square Garden Survivor Series, you know, then you start making other goals for yourself. So we made goals to become the heady champions, you know, and Eddie was a w W champion. I became ECW champions, so you know that that was the next step.
Fair enough.
Honestly, I'm really glad that you were able to get that next step. But between you and I, man, I kind of always saw you as somebody who you didn't really need the belt to be over as well. Well, you were an incredible heel, so you were always doing your job very well. It's kind of one of those guys where I always felt like you didn't really need the belt just because you got the reactions every time
no matter what. But having it it's a great accolade for you, and I'm really glad that you were able to accomplish.
That, you know, and what comes along with that title like that and working, you know, you're really any title, the championship, you know, attacking champions you you know, your your pay does go up because you're working a lot and you're working on all the shows. So having that championship or a championship, you know, you're definitely gonna make more money. Not just of course being you know, the w B champion or the Universe Champion what they call
it now. You know, of course that comes with a lot of responsibility, but a lot more money as well, but become you know, the ec W champion. I think that was my biggest year ever I worked. I worked a lot. I was on everything because then we became part of low Familia with Edge and he was the heavyweight champion. I was easter W champion. I think at one point we had Writer and Hawkins is the tag team champions. So uh, we were like on every house show,
every CW, every SmackDown, sometimes raw. So we were just like working working a lot, a lot. But you you made why are you in this business? You're here to make money? So that was that was cool with.
It absolutely So I do also want to ask you, so anybody that you could possibly wrestle from past president I almost want to say future, but you know, maybe if you see an up and coming who would you see as an ideal dream match for you and your prime and them in their prime if you could absolutely put it together.
I would have loved to wrestle Rick Steamboat as a babyface. I would love to wrestle Shawn Michaels. You know, I did tag team stuff against him and he was He's just so good. I would have liked to have done that nowadays. You know, I like Pak who's over in a e W. He's really great. I think it has some really great matches with him. God guys. So many of the guys. I mean, I could go on in all the usos Man does, the no I EV family, They're all so good. Just get in the room with
any one of them is awesome. You know, you could go on now. But there's a lot of talented guys out there that I believe having someone who who's been around a little bit and and has made those mistakes and learned from them and had some really good teachers to pass that on to them to get them to become even better rustlers. You know.
Agreed, agreed, and uh with that, I'd also like to ask, do you still came up with the product at all?
Sure? I don't watch it every Monday or whatever the other one was on Friday, but yeah, sure you're you know, I do check the sights a lot and see, you know, what happened last night on Raw that kind of stuff for sure. Especially with social media, you know, it's it's always there. Intend to turn on. You know, you'll see stuff with on Instagram with you know, with Dominic and Live and Raya and all that stuff. Is such a cool storyline, but you see, you see it firsthand.
You know absolutely, so what I was gonna ask was so with all these up and coming guys. You know, you got Damien Priest, You've got Dominic Mysterio. Now who really stands out to you personally?
There's a ton of them. Man, there's everybody that's so good. Finn Baylor that can't do anything is amazing. I love you know Ricochet that he just moved to a w Dominic's doing amazing and you know what to see him get even better kind of. I mean, there's just a ton. There's a ton all the girls. The girls, they stepped it up so much. There's so good now.
Absolutely, women's wrestling has come such a long way, especially from the past what fifteen years, I'd say, my god, it is moving them out.
Well from you know, broad panty matches and them being like you know, eye candy to these people that are headlining WrestleMania and how that had to do with like Ronda Rousey before she came to WW man, she just showed that, you know, women can draw, you know, and people were against it for a long time. They had their their place, if you want to call their site. Show kind of sprinkled in place on the on the show. But now all of a sudden you know, they're they're
killing it. I mean, these girls are having an amazing matches. Charlotta Flair just she kills it. She's so good.
Absolutely totally agree.
I mean we went from swimsuit contests and whatever else that was just kind of demeaning to women now to they are the headliners for WrestleMania and it works.
It fits.
Everybody absolutely loves it. So totally agree.
Man.
You know, they're really good. They're uh, you know, they went from being the Godfather's hose to headlight in wrestle media. So it's it's a great thing. I'm super happy for.
Absolutely.
So, Uh, do you have any future projects that you'd like to tell anybody about or is that something you'd like to keep more secret or anything.
Definitely. I'm always in you know, in La, I mean Hollywood doing different projects and working on different things. So I got a couple of things that are coming up. You know, hopefully we get that Ric Flair biopic off the ground. Uh. You know, I was supposed to do the whole Hogan biopic. I don't know what's going on
with that right now. I think that's just a little stalled right now, depending but you know, there was there's always commercial I just finished a commercial in Atlanta about a month ago, so you know, there's always projects coming up.
Awesome, awesome, glad to hear it.
Man.
So, uh, we're getting down towards the end of the episode here. So as always, i'd like to ask if you have any recommendations for the audience for book, movie, TV show, song, doesn't matter what it is, any recommendations.
Yeah, Iron Claw, I love you know, TV shows. Let me see, I just started, you know, I kind of watch them here or there once in a while. I reboot them sometimes, Like I just finished watching Game of Thrones again and went back and watched that. It was even better at the second time. I'm I think that one season or two seasons left the Sopranos just because you know, there was twenty five years ago and you don't you know, you just don't remember it and you
go back and wow, what a masterpiece it is. But right now I'm watching Fight Night. I'm watching Fight Night. That's got every African American actor in it and they're killing it. It's on Paramount, I believe, or maybe Peacock. It's one of the piece that was really cool, cool mini series that's cool. I haven't read a good book in a while except for this one from my boy Hannah Gracie, and it's the Cool Ones. It's the thirty two Principles of Jiu Jitsu and harnessing the power of
jiu Jitsu to succeed in business, relationships, and life. It's a great read, and especially for us that are you know, love combat combat sports, but to actually apply that into life, it's pretty cool. That's kind of the stuff that I like. You know, I like sometimes of fiction stuff. You know, it just depends. Like I read uh old stuff like the Charles Manson Cia book that was that was pretty cool just to see how they were like tracking them
and all that different stuff. But you know, that's kind of stuff that I like.
Yeah, that's awesome.
So a recommendation for this week for anybody that's listening, uh I would honestly recommend I've mentioned it on the show before, but I would recommend watching slum Dog Millionaires just because it's one of those movies. Man, it can get to you and.
It's very great movie. If you've never seen Slung Jog, it's it's such a good movie, such a good way. Now beating in the movie as I saw it before I was I got to go back and watch it again just because now I look at it completely different. Now you need to see how the I just told the story, but they they used the script and camel
to tell that story. It's pretty cool. And for people that are watching what we do in wrestling, and this is a lot of I show up this if I'm doing a seminar or telling you know, young Rustler's guys. We tell stories out there. It's what we're doing in the ring. We use those moves, the wrestling moves to tell the story, but the wrestling moves are not the story. Just like in a movie, you use explosions and stuff to tell the story, but there's explosions aren't the story.
You have to get them connected to a character, whatever character they have to be making love you or hates you in a movie so that you're invested in it. It's the same thing in wrestling. And wrestling you gotta get him to hate and hate you or love you because then they care about you. But when you're just this guy that does some flips and okay, whatever next next, who cares? That's not how you do it. So if you just remember that here almost that you're watching a
movie or a part of a movie. In a rustling match, they you have to get the crowd to connect to you somehow. Look at Dominic, but what he's doing, he doesn't do any He stands there with that stupid mustache and Eddie's hair and people hate him, but they care, they care about him. He's doing a great job.
Oh absolutely, totally agree. And the storyline with Ray Ripley and Live I think it was phenomenally done.
Oh cool, so good, absolutely.
So right in the end of the show, here, do you have any last thing you want to say to the audiencer?
Yeah, guys, Hey, thanks a lot for listening and watching the following my career, you can check out more stuff I got going on on my Instagram at child World Junior. That's some kind of where everything goes on. I'm also on like extra Twitter it's called at mex Warrior. And I also have a Facebook at child World Junior, not the fake one that sells things as a guy out there that's got a fake profile. To me, that's trying. I never sell anything on my Facebook, never said so
that's not real. So but check me out. You can see all the stuff going on working on my I have a beer rop, my Thtse girls, Mexican logger. You can check out stuff, where to drint that uh, and just all the different different things I got I got working. I'm always got a lot of I've got a lot of irons in the fire man. I'm always doing stuff awesome.
I was actually going to bring up the fake Facebook account think and I'm glad that you did, because I was going to ask you about it because it accepted a freer question from me.
I was like, I must be a joke or something not real.
So I's got like some of my real Facebook acounts got way more than him. I don't know why I've I've reported them and people so many people have reported him, but he's selling fake stuff on there. And then from what I under here at stand is as soon as somebody paypals and the money that he blocks them and leads, he keeps some money. So that is not me report them, and I don't if Facebook, if you're listening, shut it down.
I think the account's been shut down by now because he disappeared off my friend's list. I promise I never bought anything from him, but.
There, it's still there. It's Billy totally. I check it out all the time and I'm like, how have they not gotten rid of this guy? But anyways, that's it all right.
Thank you so much for being on the show and I really really appreciate it. For everybody listening tonight, you guys know how it goes usually for me at the end, do something nice for somebody you never know who needs it. And with that, once again, you guys know how to reach me at maintenance MAV And with that.
Oh thanks guys. Appreciate you man, and thank you.
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