WrestleMagic Episode #5: Justin Credible

WWE Podcast Family, Welcome to a special edition episode of Wrestle Magic here on the w w E Podcast, where we are local, we are stateside, and we are international. It's me, It's me, It's Rocky T and I'm about to hit it out of the park with the Louisville Slugger once again, the Captain Michael Gross. This is a Wrestle Magic first an interview. Not only will this episode be good, not only will this episode be considered one of the best, but it will simply be just incredible. We have

a living wrestling legend here with today. He is a hardcore icon. He is an ECW heavyweight champion. My goal. Please introduce our guest of honor. Ladies and gentlemen, let me talk to you about the first time I ever set eyes on this man. It was on the four o'clock East ESPN

time slot. It was for the USWA. I saw this skinny guy reminded me of myself, to be honest with you, because I weigh a buck forty soaken what and I watched what he could do, and I watched how he could perform, and I said, man, this guy is really really great. And throughout his career I followed him from territory to territory for what he was doing wrestling wise, through magazines and dirt sheets and all the stuff from the old days, because that's how we did it before the internet.

And it was amazing and it was fun. And then one day he reinvented his character and it blew my socks off and it blew my mind. So without further ado, I want to introduce everybody to our new friend of the show, a man that I wanted to be at one point in the nineties, a man that I think has had a great wrestling career, an underrated wrestling career, and we're going to get to know today all about his career.

And that is the one at only mister just incredible. How you doing justin I'm doing great, guys, Thank you so much for having me. This is really fun. This is an awesome opportunity, and I'm grateful to you guys. I'm just happy to be here man, looking forward to the

conversation. That's awesome And hopefully maybe in the future, We've got some other shows lined up for our personal part of the channel, Wrestle Magic, but maybe Matt with our actual whole program, our whole channel, WWE podcast dot com could use you in the future, and we could talk more about that sometime off camera now that we've gotten to know each other a little bit better.

So there's something I want to ask about you, and maybe Rocky you could lead it, but if you don't mind, I might ask that first question. Absolutely take it on, all right? So what was that match? What was that wrestler? Who was it that made you say, I'm a ways up a pair of boots? Um? It had to be. I mean I was. I was always a wrestling fan. I think I started to get the bug, the wrestling bug with the startup Holcimnia. Really.

I was born and raised in Waterbury, Connecticut, and we used to get Channel wwwour Channel nine, which was the big New York City station that kind of migrated to Connecticut, and I remember watching I remember the day, I still believe it or not, I still had We had two TVs back then in the household. I was maybe eight or nine. I don't know

how old. I know as a kid we had a big color TV in the living room and I had an old black and white TV, which I know many people don't even know what that is, but I had a black with the rabbit ears in my room and I watched Hulk Hogan pin the iron cheek to start his iconic WF heavyweight title ring on Saturday morning, and that's

what gotten loving wrestling. But uh, forward to you know, fast forward in six seven years after that, I saw Ricky the Dragon Steamboat and Rick Flair on wtvs UM and uh, you know, and their feud and Ricky steam Would obviously winning the world title from Rick Flair. Got to see them alive on that nineteen eighty nine tour when they came to New Haven, Connecticut on the House show run, and that's just that's what really cemented me as like, yo, I could do this, um I you know, I

wanted to do this. It was just everything that was right with the world was that, you know, it just it seemed it was just so natural, so perfect. It just was everything I wanted in life. And that was a storytelling in the ring of a bad guy like Rick Flair and a baby face like Ricky Steamboat and the moves that they performed the ring to get us to feel that way. So I saw the art form, I saw the beauty of it, and there was no turning back since that stuff,

Yeah, that was it. Wow. Well, like me and most fans, I assume we know you from ECW and your time in WWE. But one of the points of this podcast is to go beyond what we think we know, So we would like to go beyond those days, which I widely starts with before those days. So we wanted to start from the beginning of your career, which would be training. How did you end up training with stut Heart and Keith Heart and land Storm. Sure, I was, you

know again, I was always a huge fan. And after I graduated high school in nineteen ninety one. I graduated Holy Cross High School in Waterbury, Connecticut in nineteen ninety one. And the whole point of me going to Catholic high school, and it was a it was predominantly you know, a college prep ready school. You know, my parents had to pay out a pocket for me to go there, you know, just wanting the best for me,

you know, ship like that. And after high school I was like, well, I you know, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. So I took a year off after I had graduated, and like a lot of kids, I just got a small job I was working at a grocery store here in the Northeast, a very popular one. But you know, I think it was like stopping the shop. I don't know if anybody's familiar with it, but I was just, yeah, I was just a bag boy, you know, just you know, picking up carts and

behind the parking lot, you know, bagging groceries. But on my fifteen twenty minute break back then we had wrestling magazines, right, that was like the big deal for fans who really loved the business. And so, you know, in my break I would get a Coca cola and a bag of chips or whatever, and I'd go read magazines for the fifteen twenty minutes I had. And I remember going to the back of one of these magazines and I gotta remember, this is pre internet, you know, there's no information.

Wrestling was a little bit capabe still, you know. And it was a big article, not an article, It's a big one page out on the very back of the magazine. It said, dare to be Great, you know, a Heart Brothers training camp, and it just had this all this. You know, if you want to be a wrestler, if you dream to be great, you know, here's the phone number, here's the address. Give us, you know, give us a call, write us

a letter, et cetera. So I actually, uh, you know, got very excited, got the number down, you know, got the whole thing. I think I ripped it out of the magazine, to be honest, and I called and I got to talk to Bruce Hartum, you know, and he's like, well, kid, you know, we run a camp every summer for eight weeks. You know, you got to come on over to Calgary and you trained for eight weeks and at the end, if you, you know, if you could finish this camp, whatever, you'll

you know, you will be trained to be a pro wrestler. And back then it was very different than it is today. So I mean I literally, you know, begged my family. I think my mom helped me take out a personal loan to go out to Calgary to train and uh and get a flight and everything. We coordinated everything, and summer of nineteen ninety two, you know, there I was getting on a plane to go to Calgary

all you know. But but the thing about going to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, is I live in Connecticut, which is like on the map.

Let's just say New York City, an hour from New York City all the way across to the Pacific Northwest, pretty much across the world in my opinion, you know, because I was a kid, I'd never traveled really before to go to Calgary to wrestling school, not known anybody, really taking a chance, you know what I mean, with no money in my pocket, not help any right, you know, and because you just thought, well, you know, in our idea, it was like, well they're taking

this money, they'll take care of our boy, you know what I mean. We were so naive it's not really understanding what this all was in telling. So I mean I literally got there and we got uh, we got thrust into this insane world of of pro wrestling right from the start. I

mean, it was it was crash. It was crude. I remember we stayed and not just me, but the rest of the class, which all which ended up being eight altogether, but by the end of it, only two ended up graduating, and which is myself and this other gentleman out of Toronto, Ontario, Canada named Brett Farrell who still wrestles once in a while but never really made it big. And yeah, and it was it was

just wild. I was staying above a strip club, uh, you know, outside of Calgary, in some small, little dingy city like literary classy. I was literally sleeping on a mattress in some little leg Dare I say crack house? I mean seriously, you know where strippers would stay like after they were done with their sets, before they moved on to the next city, you know, because it was one of those places where you know, girls would travel through and then go on to the next place. So I

was literally staying at some like shack um. You know. All I had was you know, a mattress, my food, you know, whatever little perishables I had. We had a grocery store slash gasoline station where you can get like chif boy r D or a canned soup. You know. That was like a big deal. There was no McDonald's. There was no because we're literally in the middle of nowhere, you know, because it's not Calgary is a huge city, but we're thirty forty minutes away from Calgary with no

no, no, nothing. So it was just like, you know, talk about welcome to reality, you know what I mean. And but again that was that was part of what I could, you know, consider paying your dues, you know what I mean. So was you being one of the two people who graduated from your fast, It was that satisfying enough or more because you were one of the only two out of your fast? Or was it a fine enough just knowing that you made it out of training in

Caregary over there with the hearts. It was just the fact that imased I mean, it was so wild, dude. I mean, I had so much. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't understand. You gotta understand something when you see the business. And again, now everybody knows kind of the financials. People know what you have to do to make it in the business. They you know, you hear all this guy's getting X amount of money, guarantee whatever, blah blah blah. Back then, you literally

knew nothing about nobody. There was none of that was getting exposed. I was literally just an ant in a huge world of guys and gals trying to make it. Nobody had any idea where I was. It was actually the most dangerous thing my parents would have ever could ever imagine letting me do. I mean, I could have died out there. Nobody would have ever known I was literally no cell phones, no numbers to call. I was calling like America on pay phones, you know, collect calls, like trying to

get my mom and dad. Like there was like I was literally out there in the wild, you know what I mean, just again trying to make it. It was just it's it's something I would have never you know it, known what I know today, I would have never taken those risks or chances. I just had this weird idea and believed that if I worked hard, it would work for me, and somehow, by the grace of God or whatever the hell it is. You know, I'm not very religious,

but by whatever it is, I made it. And I got very fortunate because it was very rough, man. I mean, you know it was there was no plans that, there was no map laid out for anybody to really make it in this world, you know, and you get to learn it the hard way because I really had no idea how it was. You know, as a kid going into it, I had no idea that that's

what I was signing up for. You know, may I sidebar for a second, So I got to know what was the scariest moment, the fact that you actually made it to one of the two that graduated, or the fact that the next day, now your career starts, and what do you do, because I problem, I'm gonna guess that there was no product placement with your with you know, it's not like NXT where you go up to w W. You're Ohio Valley with their old ties and things like that.

So it's like, okay, this is the days before agents, except for your mega stars like Hogan Flair. You know, Lawlor could handle his own things. He owned the territory and obviously some of the territories dying because you and I are that old, and Rocky's right on our coattails, and so we got to see a lot of that. So I want to know, and unless I'm getting in the way of any questions that Rocky has for our listeners, what was that that moment when you're like, okay, I have

to leave Calgary, now what do I do? You really had no there was nothing for you. I mean I remember having my first ten matches. They started a new promotion out there called Rocky Mountain Pro Wrestling. I had not you know, I not made any money at all, you know,

basically spending money everywhere I can I was starving. I remember going up there two hundred and twenty five pounds, gassed up all, you know, jacked up a steroided up, you know, as nineteen years old, looked great, And a couple of months later, I'm like one hundred and eighty pounds.

I dropped forty pounds almost immediately because of now nutrition. And I remember the guy I was staying with was one of the referees, and I was literally stealing a dollar fifty a day from him Canadian, mind you, not even you as Canadian, stealing a dollar fifty Canadian out of his change jar at that time to buy a gallon of chocolate milk, and that would be the only I bought milk because I knew that would be the only nutrients I

can get my ProTeam, some kind of vitamins and mineral you know what I'm saying, And that's all I'll have for the day, because I you know, I've read a lot of wrestling books, and like Rocky, you can interjected any time. A lot of wrestlers they talk about traveling in a van, eight people to a van, no heater in the van. Everybody,

you know, if you if you're not in the driver passenger seat. You're all covered in blankets in the back hoping that you know, you get the twenty dollars payoff to whatever city you go to, and that's dedication to your craft and any of these You and I both understand the businesses that were currently in us, mister Credible, and it's we get sometimes these entitled people who don't understand what we went through. And I never went through it like you.

But I grew up very underprivileged, not severely, but enough to where you know, I hated being poor, cold and hungry, and I never wanted to live my life like that. And you're here, you are living out your dream. Where were the doubts? When did the doubts come before you started to see something? Um? I was so stupid that I almost didn't. I didn't really see any of them. I just maybe it was I was just so innocent and I wanted it so badly that I never saw

the bad. Um. I don't know what it was. Maybe I guess because I knew my parents. You know, my parents weren't well off by any means, and I was lying to them left and right about how I was doing. But you know, I remember finally at one time having to cave in and ask me my dad to Western Union me fifty dollars because I just had cracked and I needed, you know, some money to eat, you know. And I was like, you know, and it was like,

son, why didn't you ask me beforehand? You know? I was just so proud and I wanted you to feel you know, I wanted you to be proud of me. I didn't want to have to ask you for anything, you know. And I remember after sent me the money, I went to McDonald's and I had like a you know, like a quarter pound of the cheese and fries and coke and it was like cracked. I'm not trying to I'm just saying me cracks was, and you know, and it was just like so amazing to eat that. It was just like wow,

real food. I did never wanted to put that on them, you know what I mean. I just wanted to always portray it as I'm doing. Okay, I'm well, I'm succeeding in this venture, you know what I'm saying. Like, I didn't want to to kind of break their hearts because they would have given me anything. They would have gone to Caligary and picked me up. But I asked, do you know what I mean? Yeah, but everybody want to do that to them. I wanted to succeed on

my own, you know. And that was me at nineteen. You know, I just I hit balls that I just don't have today. I wish I still had those balls. Yeah, you know, because you do a lot of you know, when you're when you're in that mindset of trying to get that's unfortunately that's what it takes. But yeah, I was. I was just so ready to go at that time. It was a great time,

you know. At the end of the day. Yeah, everybody who's out trying to follow a dream will prove something, you know, wants to let the family know that they're doing it on their own and they're okay. So you're definitely not the first person or the last persons light of their parents about how well off they are un pursuing their dreams. But on your way out of training and you say you didn't Calgary was much of a plan or much of anything. Did you leave with the ring name? And how did

how did the just incredible name come to being? Oh? Wow, well that's well, I didn't have a ring name I did P J. Walker in Calgary. It was my first match, and this is this is correct because it was in my book and I remember just going through all the papers and everything that I had. My first match was October sixteenth, which is my nineteenth birthday, October sixteenth, nineteen ninety two, and I wrestled every week since then from October sixteenth, nineteen ninety two till you know, ten

weeks. That was my run in Calgary. Then after that it was Christmas break and the promotion didn't run for a couple of weeks. So I went back to Connecticut. You know, my mom and dad got me a ticket to come back home. And it's the beginning of nineteen ninety thirty. And I never ended up going back to Calgary because there was really enough there. But again, mind you, I'm in Connecticut now. All of my roots

in professional wrestling are in Calgary. I didn't know anybody in Connecticut. Again, no social media, no Internet, everything's very different, and I had no connections here. I ended up finding a couple of small, very small independent organizations just by kind of running around and asking people in the gyms. You'd see something some you know, find something in a paper somewhere or in

a magazine. You'd take a trip somewhere to go meet, you know, somebody who's running a show, you know, try to connect with people. Nothing worked, So I think it was March or April ninety three. The WWE back then, WWF had a house show in New Haven, Connecticut, at a place where I had gone many times in my childhood to watch the perform, you know, watch the wrestle, and I went back backstage. I had my bag. In back then, you were always taught because there

wasn't so many like now, everybody's a wrestler. There's like a million wrestlers, you know, and these kids, like it's so different than it was back then. There were probably only one hundred and fifty pro wrestlers in America period period. Now now there's probably a thousand or more. Right that then there was like a third or not even not even a third. So I

went backstage. I had my bag because you were always taught. If you're gonna go to a wrestling show, you're not booked, bring your gear, God forbid, somebody doesn't show you up, or somebody gets hurt, you know, if you're there visiting, hanging out you know, you might get called up to the main stage. So I went to I had the balls and the wherewithal to go to a wwehouse show with my bag. I walk right backstage and I met Tony Garrilla, who was a long time what you

called today producers. We called them agents. Famous Tony Garria, one of the grades, you know what I mean, former WWF Tag Team champion agent forever like he was there until the after the Attitude era. You know, Tony's a great guy, still alive today, lives in Florida, still a good friend. He's like, well, we don't need anybody today. I ran into him and you know, thank you, sir for letting me hang out. He goes, just watch the show, stay here, stay out

of trouble. So, you know, he allows me backstage. I'm watching the show from the curtain. You know, amazing experience. I got to shake hands and need a lot of wrestlers. At the end, you know, everybody's packing up, the show's over, everybody's getting in their car to go out into the next town. And I said, Sarah, thank you so much for the opportunity to just come here and you know, watch the

show and meet people. Etc. You know, he's a real honor He goes, well, he goes, We're starting a new show called Monday Night Broad and we need some extra talent in Manhattan in the next couple of weeks where you be interested. And I'm like, okay. So they were looking for job gay extras whatever you want to call it, to start this new show that they were taping called Monday Night Raw And it was an hour and a half away from my house and you know, downtown Manhattan. But I'm

from Connecticut, so it was a quick drive. So for him, he was booking the extras. Hey, this is one guy I could send down. You know, he's from the Hearts, he's from Calgary. He's probably pretty good. You know, He's one of the guys I could use on that show. So that's how it all got started. In my initial connection to the WWW as that one moment of taking the you know, the chance of going backstage and just introducing myself. May I introduce introject for a check?

And I started early bad, so you have to take with me, Okay. I trip over my tongue sometimes. Okay, So right around this time, like right before Ross started, because you and I both remember it as Monday night prime time back in the old days. So you and I were obviously both big wrestling fans. Rockey was, you know, coming up, And so the fact was, I remember the Big Four, it was

WWF, the NWA, it was world class and basically Memphis. Yeah, you know that's and it like because Florida was dying off pretty early eighty nine two. Yeah, And so I'm a historian. I'm obviously I've never worked in the industry zone command or demand respect like you do. But I have to imagine with your fresh eyes, you're coming in and you're getting shot at what everybody calls take time right away, and you might have had, I

think, my my perspective better shots at some of those other territories. But you know, with with Dallas merging with USWA and the AWA dying, because you and I both know by watching ESPN all the time, so you had that USWA merger, so you had what they thought would be a superpower. But you're like looking at this and saying, Okay, well, I might be enhancement for now, but it's for the best company in the world.

So where did the go or did you think, well, maybe I could get my toes and other ponds, but where you're just so excited about that ww's experience that you're like full born. That's a great wow. Nobody's ever asking that, And that's a great question because it does like going back to that. I mean, I know I didn't want to be a job guy, and back then there was no real clear path to a job a guy getting a job. I mean there were guys like Barry Horror Whips And this

was right about the time as well. Think about it as the one two three kid, exactly the same time as the one two three Kid, my friend Shawn Waltman. And there was really no it was to me, it was not even a calculating move. It was just simply a move to how do I stay in the business? Right? You know? I could just do shitty indies like once a year or once every two years and be a top guy or a mid guy or a lower card guy, or do I

go and work for the ww WE as a job guy. And I saw I had seen a lot of guys and I wasn't even thinking this at the time, to be honest, but I saw a lot of guys who had some names in the end because again, the indies were not really covered. It was like talk about mud show, like you know what nobody really reported on Indians, you know what I mean. It wasn't a thing like it

is today. And I want to talk about this at some point. To me, now, indies are almost a disgrace because you know, it's just so much anybody with a ring and anybody that trains a guy for a week could have an indie show and it's it's and it's killing the business. But that's another thing. But that didn't exist then, it really didn't. So I was just like, look, this is just a way for me to

again meet people and get my foot in the door. And I really didn't think of a lot of it. It was really like the only thing I could do, you know. In that same path that I took, also was happening for another guy who got very famous in the w W. Scotti, Johadie Scott Taylor, because he was doing really think yeah, him and I started almost at the same exact time, very good friends to this day,

traveling buddies back in the day. But he started out of Massachusetts and was you know, we did the some of the same indies and ended up doing the same exact you know, because when the WWE came to do TVs, they picked the best indie guys to do jobs right, and Scottie was always one of those guys in the nineties, you know, especially in the early nineties. So yeah, so it was a lot of that stuff happening.

It was really cool, you know. So as you're getting your feet wet into business and you're starting to punish it, hone in on your craft. Where is your who's your inspiration for your move? Sat and where how did you come up with your finishers and your second sure moves? I really had nothing. I really had nothing. I just really tried to be the best wrestler I could be, and the stuff I had done as Aldo was like really just um, you know, me thinking, okay, what I

always thought I could be. You know because at the time I was two twenty two twenty five. I'm six foot tall. That's not big in those days, right, We're talking about still the land of Giants, where everybody's six three two forty. Remember I remember being in the locker room with ted d Beyonce Grow and Teddy a great guy. Loved Teddy to this day. Wonderfully. But you know, he's the million dollar man on TV. You know, he's got this amazing gimmick. But he was so tall and so

thick and big and muscular. You're talking about like Division one college football player. He kind of guys, you know what I mean, like real superior athletes, not just some muscled up dudes. You're talking about guys that are super tall, super thick, and can run and work faster than you. So I was like, you know what I mean, Like, what the hell, dude? Um, these guys were prime, prime, superior athletes.

So it really took a lot to kind of figure out where am I Am I gonna make it in in this kind of industry where everybody's so big. So at two twenty two twenty five six foot, I had to be a high flyer back in those days, because if you remember, Owen Hart was always the smallest of the hearts, and he was a high Yes,

right, Owen was a high flyer. You had to be at that, you know, because if you were under two hundred or hovering around the two to twenty to twenty, you still have Benua all those guys they were. We had to be high flyers. In those days, or else who weren't you know, Pillman, Brian Pillman, those guys you had to be, or else who weren't getting involved, you know, or you'd be a jobber

so again, you know. And and the guys who Dbasi I remember being sixty three and he had two inch risers on his boots, so he probably stood about six four six five. You know, everybody talked out even holding all those guys. They were just so larger than light. You were always trying to be bigger and better than whether it be through steroids or through lifts on your shoes or whatever. However, whatever magic trips you could pull to

look big, they did it, you know. So I was like, whoa, you know, And it wasn't until so anyway, That's how I started to develop My moveset was always like more of a high flyer, and that was because my lack of size, which is funny to say now, because in aw I'm a goddamn monster compared to these guys that looked like swimmers. May I interject without intercheckering again, So here's something that I noticed about you the first time I saw you. I believe you were p J.

Walker. First time I saw you in t Okay and I I'm usually a wrestling encyclopedia, but you corrected me. I thought it was in Global, but it turns out it was USWA, so I didn't get to see your matches on Rock. Now. There was three people that I thought was synonymou with their I think they called like Junior Heavyweight, um the Visual and I always thought you were part of it, and that's shame on me for not

knowing that. But it was always Sean Waltman, you know, really really well, Jerry Winn and exactly Yeah, we don't know what to do with him. Uh, just let him be himself. So when I looked back at like the history of me watching you coming up, I was always impressed by the stuff that you could do. Sean Waltmon could do, Jerry Lynn could do. But he disappeared for a while until he became mister j L, which was right about the time that Ross was trying to get into the

Attitude era to get back at Nitro. But that's neither here nor there. The point is I remember your move set and remember what you could do, and every time I saw you, which was later on on Raw with the Aldo thing, I'm sorry to bring it up. Well, I mean, you made money. You made money, you know even that I was, I don't want to go up on it, but I I loved it was

a great growing experience. So I just remember like seeing the three of you as synonymous, and I hated the fact that the Lightning kid, which was amazing in global, became the one two three kid with a clean shaven face and acting like he was going to cry. And Jerry Lynn like, like I said, he who knows what he did for a couple of years, then he comes back under a mask, and it's like that's for all of

us who read everything. And at this point, I'm sure and I'm not trying to rush anything, is when I think you saw it as much as I did. The territories were really collapsing because it was down to at this point just WWE or WWF as you and I know it, and WCW who bought out the NWA, who never had the same ideals, and you had to go through so many different people and so many different management things. I couldn't imagine what was on your mind if you had to get sent there.

But the meantime, something else did happen to you when you got sent someplace else. And I'm not talking about ECW, you know what I'm talking about. Um, well, are you talking about me going back to members or yeah, going back to manthis and tagging out the PG thirteen, Yes, and being a PG one eight seven. That was one of my favorites on tape training. I was like, that's him. Well it was. I

literally, all right, let's let's rewind it a bit. I literally literally was doing really good as Aldo, and I don't even I forget sometimes what I did as Aldo. Um, I went back and watched some shit, dude. Um, I mean I had a feud with both Jerry Lawler and Jeff Jarrett on when I was Aldo. I beat Jerry Lawler on raw.

As Aldo, I beat Jeff Jarrett in an non title match, did a week's worth of promos challenging him for the IC title, then going for the the Icy Belt and having road Dog interfere, and then Razor coming in to save me, and then us having tag matches Me and Razor against uh, you know, road Dog and Jeff Jarrett. So like I was grooming this like the little guy that could but never could make it and that was a

good gimmick for me. I was learning. I was on the road wrestling, getting you know, kind of getting my reps in right, working with world class talent all over the place, making money. It was great opportunity in great times. And although at one point, you know, after a while in ninety six, you know, the beginning of ninety seven started to really like, okay, this is kind of it feraldo you know, it went as far as it could go. Did the best he could with it,

he really did, and he gave me a lot of opportunities. I'm not gonna lie and like sometimes I have the narrative that they didn't do anything with me, but going back and watching all that they did, I actually had a good little run, as you know, nothing great, but a good little run. You know. They tried a couple of things here and there. You know, it's just what it was. But anyways, I digress. So my contract about to come up, Razor and keV went to

WCW. It was the big exit of you know, my friend Kevin Nash and Scott Hall. And at the time my contract was coming up, and I was really feeling myself having great matches on the road, really kind of like I'm twenty four going on twenty four. I was twenty four, twenty three, twenty four really getting good now because I'm having you know, I'm wrestling four or five times a week on house shows, wrestling top talent, really having like ed and at times best match of the night. You know.

Um, and I strongly we can say that. I'm not embarrassed to say that. People go back and look at the history books. You'll probably get the same thing I'm saying to you. Um, you know, because it was, you know, I was really going over and above to have the best match of the night against guys like Chris Candido, doctor Tom Pritchard,

many other amazing people. Yes. Great, Yeah. And so anyways, I go to Vince and I'm like, you know, we get a meeting at the Great Stanford Titan Towers, and I go in and I'm like, Vince, you know, thank you for taking this meeting. You know, I'm very grateful for everything you've done. But I said, uh, you know, I kind of, um, i feel like I've done the most i can as this character. I've learned so much. I'm very grateful

for this opportunity. But I said, you know, at the going kind of where we're going in this business and where I'm going in this business, I feel like I've kind of plateaued. I said, um, you know, if you don't mind, I'd like to get my release and uh kind of you know, test the markets to see if I can go somewhere else. And I thought that was going to be a no brain or Vince would

be like, I got no problem. You're you know, you're not a guy that's used very much right now, No problem, And Vince actually said no. He goes, you know, I don't want to let you go. I said, you use as you're an up and coming guy. He goes, I've I've invested a lot of TV time and a lot of resources on preparing you. He goes, I don't want you to go, and he goes, I'm going to send you to Memphis, not as a punishment, but as a way to develop yourself and a heel persona and come back

to WWF as a heel you know. No mask. The whole thing, you know, because that's why they put the mask on anyways, was they knew very well that I was going to be a generational guy, that I was going to be there for a long time. They were going to kind of make me, you know, make me learn under the mask, and then when time was right, kind of like how they did with a lot of guys if you really remember the Alice Snows, the Canes, the so many guys they put under a hood then take it off and they have a

whole new character. It was a similar thing. They just like, you know, you cut your fucking teeth. Now let's turn you into something else. So he's like, I want you to go to USWA and learn to work as a heel. Then we'll bring you back up. And that's what happened. You know, I went to us way and learn to work as a heel. And okay, so I'm gonna sign Maria real quick here. First of all, I lived in Memphis for like thirteen years, but it

was way after you were gone and done. Okay. I love that city up and down at one point and ran a quarter of deal street through story And my favorite place to get go is the Kooky Canuck. Help sponsor the show at eighty seven South Second Street. Go see Shan Danko, a good friend of mine, my mentor and one of my best friends. But getting into what's really important with this is at this point USWA didn't have the ESPN time slot as far as I knew anymore, Global hadn't botched data, and

everything that they could do was just really screwed. So from my understanding and from some prior stuff, I don't really want to drum it up too much. You said it wasn't a punishment, But could you provide for your family? No, that's the whole thing that could not vince was giving me five hundred dollars a week. That was it. And that five hundred dollars a week. Mind, you have to provide for not only I just did gotten

married to my wife, who I'm still marriagated this day. Um, I had to provide for my house in Connecticut, my car in Connecticut, my living in Connecticut, my regular living, and also provide for an apartment in Memphis, a rental car in Memphis, food, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm five hundred dollars a week. How are you supposed to do that? Think about us run two spots, two car payments, food, it's how are you doing that? You know what I mean? So you're

living, You're living your good. I'm doing twelve hundred dollars in the whole and what do you think about this time? Star? You know, if not more? Um, you know, I just it was too much. I mean I was really I was literally I remember us being down there because my wife was on the road loogly. Then in Memphis, we were there for whopping six weeks, but it was the worst six weeks of my life.

And we were at a point where we were literally ordering We'd go to like one of those chain restaurant it's like a Friday's or Chilies or whatever those

places are, and like we'd order a baked potato. That's tad. We'd just go because we did we had a place to you know, a pitty little one bedroom extended stay, you know, apartment, and if we wanted to go out on a Friday night, we each order a baked potato with some like you know, salsa on the side so we could like, you know, make some kind of a meal and get out of the house for you know, out of the apartment or whatever that check that it was,

you know, And I was losing again, back to losing weight, back to not eating. And now I'm also thinking I just married this girl, and you know this is how Hey, welcome to your new life with this guy who cannot provide you will you know what I mean anything? It was just again, it was back to square one, and you know it's crazy. So when at what point, what year, or what contract would move did it take to finally get you where you were providing forty with without a

stress. Yes, the last show I ever did for USWA from Memphis was a show. If you remember, in nineteen ninety seven, ECW had a an angle with Jerry Lawler and they were, you know, Jerry Lawler was coming up to ECWTV and they were feuding. So as part of the angle, my last show was in Memphis. They had Tommy Dreamer, the Sandman, Rob Van Damn, Sabu, Paul Hayman, and Tom I said, Tommy Dreamer, Chris Candido and they were on this ECW show And in the

angle, I portrayed one of the ECW guys. They just gave me an ec W shirt and it was just storyline stuff. But Chris Candido, who was an old friend of mine from the WWE slash w WF. He was a skip from the Body Downards and we don't get me started that one. Yeah, I know, but we had worked together and we loved each other.

We're good friends. He's like, man, you should come work for ECW because I was telling them how shitty things were, and uh, you know, I was ready to go home, I know, ready to kind of give it up, and he goes, man, you know, come work for us, Come work for Paul. So long story short, I gave my notice. I told Vince I was I was done for good this time. I got my ticket out of Memphis and I had arranged to work

a tryout. It was more of a I don't know if it was a tryout of whatever it was, but I ended up working the weekend for Paul Hayman ECW. I did Queens New York and then I debuted. I did Queens New York on Friday night as Aldo, where I ripped off the mask and say fwwe im ECW, and then the next day it was the next show. I worked as Justin Credible for the first time ever. I think it was in October of ninety seven, and that's where I got the name

Justin credib Land. I wrestled just for records sake the Incoming Jerry Lynn. So him and I were the first match in ECW first, Yes, and that's where the Justin Credible character started. And from then Paul went to Vince and said, look, you don't want to give him his release to go to WCW, that's fine, send him over to me and we'll call it a day. And my contract with Vince went into a contract with Paul, and I became ECW till the company went out of business. That's amazing.

Now, can I rewind one second? Because at one point I sometimes I message Wolfie d on Facebook, and at one point you were put with them and you were PG one eight seven, So I want to know about that character. Was that the roots that you were starting for Justin Incredible? It was in a way I just didn't know what else to do because everything was moving so fast. I really didn't get a chance to think about it,

you know what I mean. And I was just trying to you know, I just kind of think, like, how would I act if I was one of those guys, you know, just kind of trying to be a thug, trying to be something I wasn't because it wasn't very natural for me right to do that. Kind of PG thirteen stuff. I was really out of my comfort zone. But I was trying to be somebody. So yeah, that was kind of where I was at, but I had a hard time doing it. It wasn't until I got to Paul and he started to

really mold me. And then and then just incredible, kind of just became neat very slowly, but you know, because if you look at my first

the first episode, the first TV taping of me is just incredible. I still don't look right, but very soon, you know, you get a couple of weeks into it, you know what I mean, you just start he started to make you feel more comfortable, and then I just became me, which is like I was just a combo of like the guys that I liked, you know that, guys like Sean Michael, guys like Razor Ramone and Rick Flayer. I just became all, you know in my own presentation.

Yeah, well with w W. You know, the Chiler it used to be the land of the giants and the body building buffs, and then by the nineties, after the steroid era, all that changed. You know. Growing up, I've always you know, I'm drawn to the largest the life characters like Andre the show Taker and Cane, but that's only because of

their size. But I mostly connect with people like you because we have by the same height, same build, And when I see guys that have my height and build, it makes me those are the guys that I connect with more in the ring. Sure, So you know, whenever, when you got to eat ECW, that's when I encourage you and discovered you. And we all know and still feel the how impactful ECW was. Supper wrestling, the the allegiance of the hardcore fans spirit still wars today wrestling. So you

know, ECW changed a lot for the industry. It even changed backyard wrestling. I want to be too hardcore wrestling want to be And I noticed because I was one of them, you know, jumping on the back Campellin's as young kids. Yeah, you know, it was a great time growing up as a changer for me. It was one thing it was was it captured.

It was so different, and what Paulie did with wrestling is it's just I can't even explain it because it was you couldn't do it today, And it wasn't because of It wasn't because we were so extreme or It wasn't because we were so different. It was just we were kind of a voice of the voices. And I know that sounds very easy to say, what does that mean. It's like we were everything that the fans wanted that nobody was

getting. The great the great thing Paul Hayman had was to feel the pulse of the industry and that was because of WCW, and that was because of WWE. They were both not providing us with what we wanted. You know. WWE was very cartoon, was very you know, vanilla, you know. And it was not to say it wasn't good. I mean, they had some of the greatest wrestlers doing some good work. Don't get me wrong,

WCW. They had a lot of amazing wrestlers as well. They had some of the greats, but still they couldn't get their ship, you know what I mean. It just all felt outdated. And then there was ECW. All of a sudden, We're playing popular music music that you and I are going, you know, listening to in school, ship that's on the radio. We're doing music videos, We're having beautiful girls on our show,

you know, dancing or coming out with the wrestlers and getting involved. You had blood, which was again something that was happening in FMW, in the subculture of professional wrestling. So Paul just took a little bit of everything, mashed it up into one and there was the birth, you know what I

mean. And he took people that were underrated people with all the talent in the world, and ECW became Frankenstein's monster, you know, a build and a global brand that nobody you know, sign of the times, as the Great Prince would say, And that's what ECW was. So speaking of that music that shall play? What inspires your theme music? Did you come up with it? I didn't get who gave it to you? Then Paul gave me it, I believe it or not. He had he had the whole

character scoped out long before I came to play. I think he had that character well in mind. I just think he needed somebody to come along who could do it or who he felt could do it. So, yeah, that whole thing was top to bottom Paul Hammond and how you think about it, and he presented it to bro I was just happier than a pig and shit anyways, right because I got to just be a part of something so

cool, and I knew it was something rather. I mean, this is again, this is something that was so obviously a head and shoulders above anything else. It was so punk rock, it was the it was so cool. I mean, you got to remember ECW was a small brand and we were in hot topics, in the malls, we were in everyt we were in, you know, ec ec up and W shirt were everywhere. We were the cool kids. And you know, we felt we took that and

ran with it and people were starting to notice them. You know, we were he was just we were riding that lightning bolt, you know, and it was just it was really cool, and Paul was really the the epicenter of it, and he just put his guys in place where he felt could could could carry that a ka revolution and it was, you know, in some terms, you know, a revolution, not necessarily a pro wrestler, but like of what could be done. You know, It's like, you

know, the Internet was going to start coming. We already had ECW wrestling dot Com, but back then it was just for pictures and stuff like that and results. But we knew very close behind was going to be the Internet era of wrestling. So we already started to kind of get in with the get in bed with the dirt sheets and start to become, you know, super smart in how to book these things to the smarts. We started to realize how that was the thing, you know, all of it. So

let's let's get the gardener in here. That's my other nickname, by the way, the captain and the second best pro wrestling you know, podcaster in Louisville, because you know, as no one can touch Jimmy. But there's some things from this era that I remember and some things I want to talk to us. First of all, it's the drinking question. Was I I've always wondered, were you part of the clique. It's always been rumored that you were part of the clique. Um, I mean I'd like to think

so. I mean, it wasn't It wasn't an initiation or anything. I mean, look, we were a bunch of guys, a bunch of friends that you know, drove around to the shows together that we're hanging out together, you know, Scott All, Shawn Michaels. I mean, look, I stayed when Shawn Michaels left WWE in ninety seven and ninety eight. I

think it was ninety eight and he opened up his wrestling school. I spent a week down there at his wrestling school the year that Daniel Bryan was a student, helping train Damn Bryan. So I was down at Shawn's house, sleeping at his house. I was at Scott's place. He came up to my place. You know, a kid. All of us were friends. So if I'm not in the clip, then whatever. But I think the

clip became more of a marketing tool. You know, we were all friends, you know, it became it started to become more of a marketing thing. When WWE started do T shirts on it. Then that's when you knew it wasn't a real thing anymore, you know what I'm saying. Well, well, my next question was, did you ever feel like when you got basically said, not punished, but sent down to uswa that that could have

been part of the curtain call? Because I don't know timeline if it was before or after, But if it was so, just because you were friends with him, he might have just said, Hey, you gotta go, and I'll just put it on you. I'll put all the guilt on you. I thought about that, but I've never presented you with that, because honestly, I never really talked to you much before the last couple of days. Yeah, it could have been, sure, I mean I have thought

about that. You know, I know for a fact that they didn't let me go because of that, you know. But you know what, but in a way, if I'm almost grateful that they didn't let me go. And Vince was a good Vince was not a bad guy. I mean, I know Vince's sometimes betrayed as the cartoon character monster that he sometimes can be, but you was a real good dude. And I think he was hurt by Kevin and Scott leaving, and I think he had every right to feel

hurt. But at the same extent, I mean those guys, I mean, I know Scott was you know, Scott wasn't making the money you guys think he made his razor. He was making two hundred and fifty grand a year, dude, and today's wrestling, that's that a ship. That's terry, you know what I mean. And I think he was hurt by that. He wanted to make more, and I don't blame him, so I think, you know, I think it was just a way too. I

don't know, I think everybody before. It all had to happen the way it did, because if it didn't, I don't think Vince would have survived. The Monday n AT Wars wouldn't have happened. Nothing wouldn't have happened. It actually worked out perfectly, That's you know what I mean, Because we could speculate all we want, but it all ended up happening the way it was supposed to it. I think, you know, I really do fair enough. Now getting back to what the first time I saw you in ECW,

you were presented in the greatest time slot. It was Sports Channel America at two am in Cleveland, Ohio. But you know what, do you know how many people stayed up to see that? And yeah, a lot. That's it was underground beginnings and everybody I knew that red dirt sheets and knew about what ECW wasn't I this is before you debut. We had all gotten this underground Outlook, you know, this underground thing going on. And this is before the internet. Like you said that, you had BBS's bolton

board servers where you would post things like this is happening on wrestling. You know what I'm talking about. And of course Meltzer was all over that. Wade Keller was all over that. That's the first time I ever actually talk to you, was Wade Keller, and so getting down to it when you came out, I looked at and I said, I hate this. This isn't the guy I knew, and I didn't want although I wanted PJ. Walker or or the PG one eighty seven, I wanted to see that character.

And then the mega push you got right out the gate and I was like, he shouldn't be going over Jerry Lynn. The matches you guys had were amazing, amazing. They hate you, Drew. I was just like, I hate this guy, hate this guy. And all of a sudden he smiled one day and I said, he's doing his damn job. Yeah. And I became a huge fan of yours, and I was like, we kind of look we kind of look alike. We're kind of small guys. And they you had to fill the role of Ravens Shoes. Tell me

how that was, knowing that you had to be the top guy. Heel Um, it was. It was. I'd like to say it was intimidating, but Paulie made it. Nahum he was. I'll tell you. One thing about Paul Paul Human is a great He's not a great booker, now hear me, hear me on the bore. Everybody gets crazy. He wasn't the greatest booker. He wasn't the greatest storyteller. And I think he'd agree with me. I would challenge him on this public right now if he has

any thoughts. But I think he was the best motivator. And what I mean by that is he would challenge you and he would put those things up against you and he would tell you like kind of like this is where it's at, and you would want to. He would see the drive in you, and he would kind of put these obstacles up in front of you because he wanted you to go kind of go for it, to try to outdo and to try to be better than I mean to be Raven is almost like

ridiculous. I mean, he is the iconic ECW guy, right, He'll one of the one of the greatest. You know, in my opinion, I love study to death to this absolutely at the day Guy's you know, one of my favorites. Super super super smart, super cerebral, cerebral, super good in the ring. I mean he could do anything. So just to be in that conversation was amazing. I mean he did literally did for

Dreamer and he was doing that for me now. Um, so you know, Paul did that by design because there's no there's no way to to really test somebody. And this is where Tony con goes wrong because he lets the inmates rule the asylum. Where Paul would just put you in front of the other guy and hand you a hot mic instead of the other way around, like he'd put like it would be like, you know, put the two

best guys in the room and let him go at it. But in a you know, in a way that simply you know, you're going for storylines and you're going forward, you know what I mean, for for good television content. And Paul knew what was what was up and that was the beauty of it, you know. And uh and Raven was you know, he taught me so much and getting to work with him and and everything. I mean, Scottie and I go back a long way, and it was just

you know, I just I know you had to take that role. And I don't mean to cut you off, but you have to take that role. And that's you know, you're going against Dreamer. Now you're going against sand Man. You're going against you know, the guy who can't be and the guy who can always do it, and you're decimating him, taking them out while their side sidebar and with Sabu and Van Damn to other things. But you made it done so well. Then you put together a misfits following

of people around you. You want to talk a little bit more about those misfits too? Or was that was that? Um? Obviously it was Hayman. But how did you feel about, like, you know, you're entourage the sides Lance Storm, who was one of the great in ring performers of all time. Yes, I wasn't crazy about it. I wasn't crazy about it, and I didn't understand it at first. I didn't know why he

did it. I felt again this is at first, Um, I thought Jason Knight was a bit beneath me, only because you know, even though Jason was a television you know, ECWTV champion and he's a great wrestler in his own right. Don't get me wrong, he really was, UM, but I felt he was beneath me. I felt, you know, Nicole Bass and all the girls and all the side shows it was beneath the I thought it was kind of just like smoking mirrors. But I think he did it for a reason, and you know, I just think it made me

get better. It made me kind of taught me how to use that because the whole thing behind that was Paul wanted wanted heat, but he also wanted, you know, people to get you know, they wanted to get through. You gotta get through Jason Knight. You gotta get through the girl. You gotta get through this one or that one to even get to me. That's you know what I mean, That's like, who does this guy?

I think he is kind of a thing, you know, because I really wasn't supposed to be Billy Baddist. I was supposed to be the guy barely making it out alive. Hence all the attachments I had storyline wise, you know, speaking of speaking of storyline, I've always been very interested in stuff behind the scenes, the creative part of it. Talk to us and tell us how how they told you get there, We're gonna put the trap on you. What was the creative process? But how did that come to be?

And how there was no creative process? Literally, what had happened. And I know you guys know the story, but I will lay it on you. Mike Awesome was leaving for WCW. This was a time where PAULI was really trying to accommodate everyone financially, because again, this is two thousand, I believe. Yeah, it's two thousand and April two thousand, I remember, and Paully was trying to accommodate everyone. This is the height of the Monday Night Wars. You know, WCWS didn't play w W E isn't

play. Everybody's doing business. We're doing killer business, by the way. And we had Mike Awesome as the World's heavyweight champion. Now Paul put the title on Mike, in my opinion, to try to keep Mike kind of almost like, you know, treat Mike as a mark, like, hey, we're going to give you the belt. Maybe that'll suffice instead of giving you a big payday, right, Okay, So they give him the title.

You know, he's the world's champion. And now you have Mike Alwsom who still doesn't have a new deal with ECW, and WCW comes knocking and I think, and I'm not sure about the contracts so please excuse me if I'm wrong. But then you know, Mike has the belt and WCW gives him an offer he pretty much cannot refuse financially. So Mike takes the offer and he leaves to go to WCW with the ECW title. He's still the world champion. He appears on Nitro, mind you, and I think Paul

filed an injunction. And the only reason I know this is because I saw it on like a WWE produced documentary, so I know, you know what I mean. So I know it's kind of legit because that's how they take a worry. But anyway, so they filed an injunction. So Mikelowsom, even though he is recognized as an ECW champion, shows up on Nitro but without the belt. Okay, he does like a run in and he leaves through the crowd, like, what's this ECW guy doing here? On Nitro.

Paul somehow finangles a deal between Vince and Bischoff where Mike Alossom who stays in a kind of like an hotel room all night by himself, no talking to Task, no talking to anybody. Wrestle's Task, who is by the way from and contracted to WWE, who has been on WWW ETV. They show up in Indianapolis, both not without talking to one another. Now we don't know if there's a double cross going to happen. WCW security is there,

w R ECW security is there. It's like a wild show. Nobody knew where he was because they were afraid that if we knew where Mike Alowsom was, the ECW locker room was going to kick it for real. So anyways, they kind of get Mike to the ring. He drops the belt to Taz. Okay, Mike goes off into the sunset. He does the right thing, drops the ECW titles to Taz, who is a WWE wrestler. Next week, very following week at the ECW Arena, we have Taz versus Tommy Dreamer for the ECW title. Again. Mind u, Taz is

the WWW wrestler with the ECW title. Dreamer beats Taz now Okay, that night, literally that show was on probably fifth or that match was on fifth or sixth, I would say two matches beforehand, I had nothing on the show. I thought I was just doing a run in. Paulie pulls me aside and says, you're gonna go out there and you're going to kick Dreamer and you're going to hit him with the pile driver and cover him one two

three. I'm like, okay, how does that happened? He goes, Oh, well, dream is gonna win the belt for tasks and then you're gonna interrupt challenging for the belt and you're gonna be going a new champion. I literally found out fifteen minutes before it literally fifteen minutes. So that's how that happened, and that's how a lot of was Paul happened. You never knew, dude, you literally never knew. I thought I had a night off. I wasn't even in my gear. I was like, oh I

got an easy night tonight, you know, easy payday? Sweet? You know I did. I had no idea that that night was going to make my career. So that's how La. That's you know, literally how it would go sometimes, and that's what happened. So eternally grateful. You couldn't have gone. You couldn't plan that, you know, And that was the wonderful, beautiful madness of Paul. So I always wonder about that, like thinking about like everything that he did with the like misfits and like, I

don't paul you were Jerry lennonmis fit. But it was just you bounced around, you know, you didn't have like proper opportunities shippers. Yes, guys that weren't shippers. Well you can't. You can't help that. You you weren't born at six foot four, two hundred and sixty foot house. That's the way it is sometimes, right, that's how they would do, you know. So yeah, and you you look at the Sandman and you never say fitness buff. It just never clicks in your head. But yet you

had some classic matches. He's bigger than you. He was a guy Steve Austin couldn't beat. People forget that he was a guy. Steve Austin couldn't be It was all the right place at the right time, putting that that that that cauldron together and stirring it up. You're hitten down there and you're saying, Okay, the checks are not going to be as great as we thought they were. That bad though, people see, that's the thing. People have that assumption. I was making more for Paulie when he went out

of business than I was for ww Love. You know, I've I've heard the shoot videos where Shane Douglas says that he makes more being, you know, a general manager of a Walmart than he does that he ever did in any one year in wrestling. I don't know if it's true or not. I don't know if he's bitter or not. I mean, um, well, actually that's something I want to reflect on and ask you real quickly. So looking around those those ECUM locker rooms, a couple of really important questions.

One, who would you have wrestled in ECW? That was in ECW but gone by the time you got there. Oh, I'll light you up man. Hell yeah. Well Eddie ben Wahre I worked with Jericho was actually funny story. He was my first or fourth fourth ever and there's video of this and I've begged the internet for this. Um. He was my fourth ever match in Rocky Mountain Wrestling in Calgary. J Walker versus Chris Jericho is there. I had it on VHS and that I don't know where that went

and my mom's I don't know where it's gone, but there was. Yeah, I had my first ten matches. It was p J. Walker versus Chris Jericho number four and land Storm versus p J. Walker number eight, all from Rocky Mountain Wrestling in Calgary. And I would love, love, love if somebody could come up with those matches because they do exist anyways. Yes, but I didn't want any of those guys. I didn't see any of those guys as because I worked with all of them later on in WWE.

I don't know, man, I don't know who that would have been. I didn't I didn't want to work with Jericho because I've worked with Jericho even though he was young and I was young. He was just like kind of a stiff clown, Like as good as he thinks he can be, he was kind of a clown. I don't know, man, he was stiff, he was reckless. I didn't enjoy working with him. Um. Eddie I got to work with in WWW. I loved Eddie. Um. Probably Eddie if anybody and ben want too. I worked with ben Wan www.

Um he's a bit scary not to be in the ring with. Nonetheless, but either I would have said, I would have said Eddie guer for sure. Well what about let's not forget Kurt Angle? Yeah yeah, but uh, you know that was that's a I think a different plane though I don't think that it well, I was talking ECW style rules, so I was just trying to thinking, like people that I need to wrestle there.

So you know, it's it's it's an open ended question. But you know, I I think about like I would love do you see you know, you know the miracle portray. I've never seen you wrestle ring. I'm sure you probably have there, it is there, it is I love to wrestle, right, Oh my god, that would be Jerry Lyndon times. Not because of that, just I think because of what you could do. You

know, wow, that would be amazing and started me back. Since there was no storyline for your title, win, can you talk to us about a favorite storyline that you were involved in at any point of your career. That's a good question, man, Um, I really liked and this is a bit dark, but I remember because I was always it's always you know,

a lack of sometimes opponents and lack of good stories. You know, it always seems like it was me and Tommy Dreamer, Me and Tommy Dreamer, no matter what, Like there was so many times like if you look at my paper, I wrestled every pay per view in ECW history except for the very first one, Barely Legal. The rest I was on. I was on every single one except barely Legal the first um and I would say

Tommy Dreamer because I got him so many times. But the one that really made sense, and this was Dreamer's idea, was his grandfather died and Tommy loved his grandfather very much. Of course it didn't, but the point was Tommy's grandfather kind of introduced him to professional wrestling, and so there was this thing. And I the day that Tommy Dreamer's grandfather died, or a couple of days after, I went into the ECW arena, cut a big long promo, you know, saying that I wish it wasn't you know, I

interrupted the ten bell salute to Tommy's dad, granddad. I wish it wasn't him that died, your grandfather. I wish it was you. It was you. I just thought that was so lad because it was really it was really raw and really feeling it, and it was a lot of emotion in the building that night. So just for me, I'm just I'm spitballing. I'm sure that I could think of another one, but that one to me was pretty that's pretty special because Tommy said to me, because I didn't like

it, I didn't feel comfortable. And Tommy says, PJ, don't worry. He goes to my grandfather and would be so proud that we're using his name in a gimmick in the angle, Okay, dream you know, whatever you want? You know, because I love Tommy. I respect tom with all my art. You know, I said whatever you want, bro, you know I love I love that man, you know, with all my

art. Tommy's the best. What about traveling buddies that you hit on the road with, anybody you favorite it to hit the road with any uh nos of stories you want to share? Well, um, there's a there's a whole other podcast we have to do if I'm gonna get into the Jeff Hardy just incredible stories that out. Yeah, that's what I would love to hear that. Yeah, it's a wild ride. Um but yeah, a lot

of a lot of stuff there. But I would say me and Landstorm, and I would say that because we were so polar opposite and a little tidbit um nine to eleven happened. We were traveling together, we were on raw together and uh This was pre cell again, two thousand and one, you know, nine to eleven. You have to remember pre cell phones. We got a call from Lance's mother at some hotel we were staying in Texas, maybe Lance to him his wife or something where they were where we were staying.

Lance's mom calls the hotel room, the hotel. You know, we're sleeping. It's like eight thirty nine, you know, seven thirty in the morning, whatever, and she calls the hotel room and she's like, Lance, you know, turn on the television. Look, you know, And we turned on the TV and we still catch the second plane hitting the tower. Oh and um, you know, all that craziness happened. And then of course, you know, I called my you know, we get situated.

So we're in Texas and we have to drive. We had to make ww had to make a decision, you know, how do we go from because all the flights, if you remember, all flights in America were canceled

for a long time. Now he's from Calgary, I'm from Connecticut. We're stuck in Texas with a rental car, not knowing how we're going, you know what I mean, not knowing how we're getting home, and after we get some information, WWE tells us we're in Houston as a matter of fact, because Houston was supposed to be the next day is back down and this

is all shut out his hometown. Yeah yeah, but anyways, long story short, ww wanted us to drive from Texas to Atlanta, so it took so we kind of had to make the decision because we had no other way, right, there were no flights. You know, it's nine to eleven. Everything is shut down for a long time. So Ants and I drove cross country from Houston, Texas to Atlanta, Georgia, and he had to put up with me. And I'm listening to and I'm all in my I

love emo and that kind of music. I'm listening to Lincoln Park Hybrid Theory, just lasting landstorm out of the car smoking weed and he hates weed. He hates drugs and alcohol. And it was just a wild time. So that was like probably one of the strangest, odd couple weeks of tragedy and comedy. God there was a camera on that trip anyways, But yeah, I digressed. That was a that was a wild one. Can I can I give a quick sidebar? Is the day that nine to eleven happened.

I lived in San Diego where the planes left from. I used to run an auto garage in San Diego, and the night manager hated cleaning up mechanics because he wanted to raise and the owner of the place wouldn't give him a raise, so he would just leave a mess. And I'm a manager who's kind of like running everything. So I get there. The garage is a mess. I'm just like, and I'm right on the Pacific Coast Highway, like across the street is about three acres of sand and then the ocean.

At six o'clock in the morning, I think, if I can remember correctly, and I'm like, this place is a mess. I can't stand this, you know. So I just start cleaning up and I put on the radio and they're playing Blondie Rapture, No Joke Blondie, and I'm like kind of beebop into it because I get down with the little discilly though all of a sudden it is a great song. They announced that the first plane had hit the tower, and I'm like, what the heck is going on?

And it's going through everything and they're talking. Now. This is way back when they would still do blimps that would go down the whole ocean, like the whole coastline of the ocean, okay. And so I remember that morning's blimp. Are you ready for this one? It was a black XFL blimp. It's heading south okay. And I just looked at it and I was like, is that real? I was like, what is that? You know? And then while they're talking about they announced the second one gets hit.

That's when I go down and you have all these health joggers in San Diego and the Pacific Coast Highway. I was like, guys, go home, we're under attack. Something weird's happening. By the time I walked back up to the garage, they're announcing you know, the Pentacon everything else really crazy. And so I remembered I would always see those blimps go down to the south side towards Mexico, turning burning come back. I never saw that

blimp come back. Now. My roommate in the time was in the Marine Corps, Sergeant Michael Elwood, and I called him and he's like, we're on lockdown. It's like okay. And the next call was from my sister whose husband used to be military too, and I didn't even know how she got my work number. I mean, this was rotary, guys, this was mat this was Burth cell phones. So I'll keep this really clean and

polished. But um, we closed everything down that day left and I got home and we had a roommate in His name was Damon, and he said, this was the first time that the San Diego Union Tribune had done I think a second edition since the end of World War two, or maybe the whole war in Korea. And he's like, I bought one for everybody, and the first page was that XFL blimp waited and take him down on the beach. And I still have it at my father's house. Understand, I

guarantee you most people don't understand what that means. So continue to get home and so I feel bad. You don't understand the gravity of that. Don't second printing and all that. That's a big deal that you know it was, it was, it was all you know, print print was big back then. It was. It was a crazy time then. But anyway, so you're stuck on the road, You're stuck trying to get back. So you've got you and Lance going to two different directions, and this is pre

having to have passports to go into Canada Mexico. So how did you guys slit? You know? And how did I could imagine the costs we made? We bothing ate the costs a ourselves. We stayed on the road literally

and whatever however many shold there were between Houston and Atlanta. But that being said, we made it to Atlanta, um and we uh, you know, we went to raw on Monday night and we went live again because Vince we you know how Vince was, he goes we did because it was supposed to be Thursday was supposed to be SmackDown on Houston and we had to cancel

that. But the next Monday and you can go look it up when we get off with this h the nine to eleven after Atlanta, I was in Atlanta, Georgia the one after and after at nine to eleven in Atlanta,

we flew home. And I'll never I'll never forget flying into a JFK because I live up in the New York area, always flying into JFK or to work were a Bradley and flying into JFK, dude, there was it was not a plane in the sky, and the airports were empty, and it was just like it was the most It was wild, bro, it was a wild It was scary and I you know, just to get back home, you know, just being out there for soul. Those are the things

when people don't appreciate when you're out there on the road. We all assume everything's going to be all right. When you leave your house to go perform for a crowd, for anyone, for a promotion, for for a TV taping, for anything, you think you know you get back home safely. That was one time you never knew if you're going to get back home safe.

And it almost became secondary to get back home safe because you have to worry about all the show must go on because then then Vinny Man has to get a show off on Monday to atlant You know, it's just wild. It's wild times. Never forget it. Speaking of things that are wild, and speaking of plane rides, I have a question, did you think you were gonna did you think you were gonna die? Plane ride from Hell?

No? No, on the plane ride from Hell? No, of course it was no. No, it was just that was more like animal house fun. Yeah, yeah, that's seen the dark side. That's just like yeah, it was. That's just crazy. It was a big deal because everybody made it a big deal because it's like that never been publicized. But that's that's all the time, dude. That was like a Friday. So

that's okay, that's that's that's a little a lot of my rounds. So let's talk about the twilights of ECW and the segue to which you have you a career after being you know, basically busted down to UFA USWA and then you know, making a name in ECW and then thinking well I'm going to have a chance here and then all of a sudden you have the X Hoc thing. Yeah, I mean it was. It was a great opportunity. I knew. I thought that when I went back to Vince for the X

Factor thing, that it was going to work out. It really did. I thought we could. You know, again, this is the middle of the Attitude era, so you know there's a lot of expectations, a lot of you know, businesses at an all time high. Um. But it was, you know, it was just I I honestly don't even know what I think. A lot of it was just doing to happen the way it was, Um, X Pod had a lot of demons at the time. Um, he had he had heat with me management coming out of DX.

They were trying to find something for him, you know, And I don't think he was really happy with doing an X Factor. That's just me. I mean, even though we're boys, I think from a business perspective though, he wanted to be bigger up, the higher up on the card.

So you know, it was just you know, again, it was it was you know, so much was going on, and what we don't talk about is is again the end of WCW had so much to play because we're also dealing with now we went from ECWWWE, WCW to now WWE all in a couple of months. So now we went from one hundred and twenty full time jobs in wrestling to like fifty full time jobs in wrestling. All was within a couple of months. And I was just at that point I knew

what was going on. I was just happy to have had a job, and I think all of us were. Again, who who changed your image from the you know, the shorts over the tights to the telling well because of Steve Washston had short it was again I went back to being the WWF thing. It was. We don't care what happened in ECW that was a niche product. Um, you know, we have another guy wearing gene shorts and by the way, he happens to be bald, and uh, you guys are a tag team. So he didn't tell me to do it,

but I suggest that you, you know, get some matching tights. So what do you do right, you're trying to play ball, you know, I mean, could you nest your look a little bit more and had like something a little bit more flash here, because I know, like what I felt was like in both Jerry Lynn were out like outright buried. And I hate to say, I hate to say it like that, but that's my opinion. I think. I think I don't think it was meant to be

like you're buried, but it just showed that we were something else. We weren't staked and sizzle. We weren't necessarily about the look. We were about the product. We were about the end result being the matches where they were looking for. You know, how do we present this? You know, it's again it's a WWE presentation, you know, and it's what it is, you know, to me at that point in that era, it frustrated me the most because you were really one of my favorite Russells and to just

watch you kind of play a lackey role. It camp like it kills me. It did, it did, But I don't want to ignite your temper. I'm just saying the way that's about the presentation of you and when they did that raw where you're walking in and like x Pock and Albert are making fun of you, and I'm like, Matt Blum might be a great trainer

and a gentle guy. He's never putting in a seat. They could say New Japan, but really he's never put this in the seat you put seeds you sole pay per views for ecw xpot as a different entity did help do that, but he never really did anything as far as what you did for an upstart promotion and what you did for your mental appisode of changing your character. He always played. He went from Lightning Kid one, two, three, Kid six x pot a haircut, But besides a haircut, did he

evolve? You learn different matches, you learn different styles, And trust me, I'm not looking for anybody. If they want residual heat, we'll just get more listeners. So go ahead, yell at me. I don't care. But when it comes down to brass packs and baseball batch, which I haven't said yet this show, is the fact that you were the performer on a group. I mean, Xbox still had his athleticism, but he had channel changing heat and that's what killed you. And what is the term that

we know in wrestling today, it's XPOC heat. I'm not putting those words in your mouth. I'm putting those words in my mouth and I'm gonna say that. And Albert couldn't draw. He couldn't draw a turn if he I mean he couldn't draw. F livee he had a turn. No, it's just the truth, no, and it is what it is. But again, when you're in the WWE, they make you believe it's you just you know, it's it's like, dude, when you're outside of the bubble,

it's one thing. When you're inside, it's like two different worlds. Man. They make you believe, like if they could tell you that is blue, you'll believe it's blue, Like literally sh is blue, Like they'll like, you'll buy into it. The guys that are at the end of WWE are so brainwashed, especially at this time, So I don't blame anybody, It's just it was. It was the nature of the beast man, you know, That's all I could say. So when you look back at the

careers, what's part what year are you most fond about with WWE? Yes, nineteen ninety five. Honestly, Aldo, Aldo was actually the best part of my career because as far as no not part of my part of my WWF WWE experience because I was learning so much. I was traveling the world literally wrestling so many great guys opponents, learning so much. Ninety five to ninety six were the breakthrough years for me in the WWE, and now I will I will not you know, Budge from that, I think that was

still the best for me. And if you look if you actually look back and do the research, like on you know the TV shows Superstars, Wrestling Challenge, Raw, you'll see that Aldo kind of you know, he was a good little mid card act. But it was fun for me. It was really fun in a great time. You know, I hold that in hybrid card more so now than I did maybe even five years ago. As I look back, you know, that's good to hear that learning experiences. Yeah, go ahead, Mike, No, no, I think that that.

So after how how were you approached about being released or or quitting? What what exactly happened there as far as you can say, as far as okay, we got a part ways, this isn't working. You can change my character. Well, I'm talking about the end of your your w W E run when not well not two thousand and six, but like the two thousands, when they brought you back for the alliance. So, um,

it was right before Christmas two thousand and three. Um, it was just a very stone cold conversation where we you know, you know, thank you for your service, kind of we don't need you anymore. You know. It was literally like a week or two before Christmas and Johnny all and you know it's like okay, and how need you to keep the straight faced you? I don't. I don't think I told my wife at least for a month after that, because I didn't know how to break it to her,

you know. So yeah, wow, wow, I don't like you even go there. I'm sorry, sir, I did not need to. So you briefly came back in six right for the second the ECW reboot, And how'd you feel about ECW watered down. Um I thought for as always, you always think for a minute that you may have a chance, especially though after that Break One Night Stand pay per view. You know, it's amazing. And if that's the thing, like you have, you literally have what

it takes to give the people what they want. Why not give the people what they want? Why you have it right there? We were, we produced it, we did it. Why not continue? It's it's ego, It's that bullet. It's that it's a hit that makes you crazy. It's like why, you know what I mean. It's like you could literally the greatest pay per view in the world like that, and then like next week, oh, we're back to being nobody, you know what I mean.

It's just they flex their power, they flex their muscle, and that's where it's like you almost got to say I'm done. Ye they'll always be that way, and they'll always be that way. It'll always be the w League. Okay, So let's talk to your post WWE career then, So you're gone now two thousand and six is gone. And what I want to know is, like you have to look at what is becoming a modern day wrestling. You talked about going down to Sean Michael's school, even though it was

earlier in time. You're seeing people like Daniel Brian coming up. So who did you see as prodigies in this young era in the early two thousands, besides the Ohio Valley wrestling class, because you had people like Punk who came through there later, but he wasn't part of that. And you had deal O Brown, who was deal Brown, correct me if I'm wrong, trained with reckless youth in the backyard. Um, so, how many prodigies did you see? And how many? Go ahead? I want to hear your

anymore. I think we will. And again I'm not s And again this is also my how do I explain that sometimes you just shut down right? And I a lot of times I don't remember, because sometimes you just shut down out of just out of just mental health, you know. I think I shut down after that. I didn't really pay attention to be honest, to be really honest with you, I'm not gonna lie. I just shut

down. I don't know what it was and what it is. I just knew that professional wrestling was never going to be the same as it was in the nineties. I know something was happening, something was changing. I don't know, I don't quite know what it is, but you know, it just became it became less about I was We were always taught about tradition, about the value of being a veteran and stuff like that, the older guys

and learning your craft. It became less and less than that. It became more about sensationalism, more about high spots, more about getting over on the Internet. And then I guess we never saw the Internet coming. And that's one thing the pro wrestling guys on top never did really see was how important the Internet would be, both in the making and the dismantling of the old. So, you know, it's just I don't think I was ready.

So to me, after like two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, the business kind of the only way I could do it, the only I think way I could come to terms with it, If that makes any sense, That does make sense. Do you catch Janny list In today? Do you watch? Yes? Oh yeah, I've watched. I do a podcast weekly with Vince russo ever since its inception, I do an aw Dynamite

review show. I've done every single episode of Dynamite, reviewed it and it's up on his Patreon and I don't even have the right information to plug it. But if you go on Vince Russo's patreon, I've literally him and I have reviewed number one through whichever is coming on Wednesday. Um so that's my that's my introduction to today's wrestling. And I do watch I watch it a lot. I don't want. I watch AW actually more than WWE, which is surprising. But I don't do it because I have, I because I

want to. I do it because it's my job. I know ww is doing great, and actually, to be honest and to be fair, wrestling is at a bit of a renaissance because ratings are up, attendance is up,

money is up, so something is happening. Um you know, so I don't know necessarily what that may be, but I think right now is a great opportunity in wrestling to do something, you know, because the wrestling is pretty hot, you know there it shows in the ticket sales, shows in the in the viewership, a weekly pay per view buys, et cetera. So you know, it's a good time to be a wrestling man. It should just show the merchandise that I buy. So oh for sure,

well, you know, speaking of merchandise. So the only wrestling thing I own is when I to you on Wade Keller's podcast about twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, I was holding my just incredible doll that I got from my think ninety nine. But they like the bad boys. Yes, that's it's it's my doll. No, it's my I should figure whatever and that I didn't know what to ask you so and which today I think I've made up for that. But um I asked you, like, why do they have the

garbage cane of the cane? You're like, I don't know, like this day. Oh, speaking to which, speaking to which, my nephew, my nephew Maverick, who works on the show quite a bit for a colius, he would like to know if you still have that cane or any cane from ECW is kind of like a trophy. I do not. I hate to say it, I don't have. I really don't have my fend Rebelli at all, unfortunately, you know, but no, it is what it

is. I don't think I have anything original, that's for sure. I do want to know about your induction to the New England Progressing Hall of fame and or nine. Okay, how was that brought up to you? And how did they make you feel? And who was in your class? I have no idea, I really know. I know it was brought up to me, you know, almost as and and that's one thing that's why I

don't take things like that seriously. It was brought up to me almost as a gimmick, like as a book, and you know, so it was just another way to slap a name on an event and to get you to participate. So again I'm you know, I'm grateful, I'm glad that they thought of me in that way, but again, it's just it's just another and that's the way they killed the business, is like marketing things that aren't necessarily real, because it certainly wasn't real, you know what I mean.

I got a little plaque, which is great, looks great on my wall, but it really never meant you know what I mean, Like it's not real, you know, And I hate to say that, but it's the best that's still to be recognized for what it's nice. But I mean there's nothing, really, I have nothing to say to it, because it's like that wasn't a part of it, you know what I mean, It's like literally an indie promoter Mark, It's like, oh, let's bringing just Incredible,

fantom is she and he'll be induct you know what I mean. It's like there's no real there's nothing, you know what I mean, There's no heart to it. You know, Yeah, I get it. It's it's

it's more name credibility, and it's like here's here's here's here. Here's some of the stuff that that I will share about you with my relationship with Justin Incredible, which is basically not really all that much, it's true, but a few years ago on Twitter, because I was a fan of his, I followed him on Twitter and he had asked about maybe reinventing himself and getting

back and wrestling. So we started messaging each other on Twitter about if you were to get back out there, what you would do, and I had given some suggestions and you were very compliant with it and very receptive. Receptive, not compliant, which I thought was really cool. And so a lot of times when I throw out when we would do shows, I would always tag Justin and because I was really proud of the fact that he would actually

talk to me. You know, so it means a lot that you would actually do the show and talk to us and understand where we're coming from is the fact we want to give you a chance to talk about your career without it being just all like digging at other people and things like that, because that's not what it was about. This is why you made yourself who you are and you didn't sleep, you know, in a van eating pork and beans for three weeks, you know, and hoping to gain five pounds just

because you didn't want to do this. And that's what people need to know about. And any wrestler can say that, but does it really mean anything until you actually hear the story of somebody And this today is supposed to be your story and what we want from you at Wrestle Magic and more important than we podcast. So I want to thank you very much for being on the show, but there's a lot of things we want to do before we sign off today. Rocky, do you have the battery? Do so? Again?

This was an X was a into you to the person um. I would like to know in your arrested career, what was the most which move or that you would least like to take move or bump that you least like to take a finisher going through a table, kendle stickshot chair shot. What was your least favorite. Oh that's a good one. Um, we just loved it all because it was hard. I hate it all. I hated most. Um God, anything where like the back of my head hit the

map, that was the worst. I always ahead. I was concussion prone, so like any time I didn't get a good whip blash, I'd be knocked. So anything that was not you know, not me, like power bombs or anything then go backwards is no good. So I'd say those. Okay. And earlier I mentioned that you were listening to Lincoln Park on your some of your road trips. What are the bands music you like listening to. Oh god, I'm very old school sound Garden, Um, Chris cornell

Um, Jesus. I just there's so much. I just like rocking the ball, dude. I just I mean, I know I'm not doing it into any service, but I just like all kinds of nineties stuff. Pearl Jam, you know, food fighters, stuff like that. Just you know, you know, stuff of that kind of generation for sure. Okay, okay, And with you doing your aw reviews and now as part of your job, who could you see jumpionship next? Or who would you think could

benefit from jumping from a WWWW or vice versa without speculating contract tampering. Please, I think I think m JF would be great to go. I think time is now whether they've come up, because he's not going to have that all the time. You know the position he is in. He's hot now and he's just one stemp away from killing it on his own, so he needs to go now that's seen. You see anybody from WW that you think

you'd benefit from talking to AW? No? Because because only because only because I think that they you know, they're they're already in a good place being WWE. So to go to AW would be kind of a you know, look, we have Claudio, we have some more. You have so many guys that have come over, and nobody's really done to shoot it. So I think it's harder. It's it's easier to be an AW starter main' getting WWE than a WWE started making an AW which sounds weird, it sounds like

the other way around. But I think I think right now you can argue that that that could be different. I think right now a W very much benefit from from some big star from AW or from w W comp. I just don't know who that would be. And they have to do it right because they've botched a bunch of boss. Okay, okay, we know you're a great talented wrestler. You have any other talents that you that you do? Um, great chef now you want? Yeah? You so? Yeah,

I'm a good cook for sure. What's your favorite dish to to that is perfect in front of somebody? That's a trap? There's really uh, I don't know. Um, how about this? What is your wife favorite thing for you to maker? There you go, um, chicken corn on blue I guess that'd be a good one for sure. I make a mean seafood and chicken gumbo of a rice or or or and then I'll accent the him with some sliced okra and or deep fried sliced oker excuse me, and

then hit the rim of the bowl with some cayenne pepper. Oh that's nice. I like that. I like that a lot, very nice. Not a keying contest, but you know, of course that's between work and the kids, kids in life. You know this at this podcast, these is what I do for fun? What is just incredible? Do for fun? Nothing? Literally nothing I enjoyed doing. God, not a goddamn thing to me to have a day. We're just sitting in my room and play Xbox. Brother, We're good, right, that was my day today. That's

pretty much what I did on day today. After I could attest to that, I think you could feel the vibe when I'm like, brother, I'm just I'm I'm so chill, dude. If I'm not working at the restaurant, I'm pretty chill. So you know, I just I love I loved me some just staying all the time being nothing. How old are your boys now? By the way, Oh jeez, I got my twenty three year old graduated colleagues last year. He's working in the finance sector in New York

for a Rotbridge firm. That's Nick. Nineteen year old Jenna. She's in New Jersey working after school. And Christian is sixteen. He still lives at home. It's going to be a junior at Kennedy High School in Waterbury. And he's chilling too. So you know, all the kids are doing great. It's amazing. This is this has been one of I think one of our best interviews that we've ever had, because it's probably one of our first or second interviews. As far as the whole channel goes, I know that

there's been matt Our channel host, the person who's put everything together. He's all done, I don't. I think Chris van Fleet and maybe a select few others. And if it was before or after my time, it wasn't really much. And Rocky and I had some stuff lined up for our last show on androgyny in wrestling with a Dream Street. However, Adrian's recovering right now from something, and so this it means a lot to us, okay,

And I can't bow my head enough. I can't tell you that that to talk to somebody that I was a big fan I'm still a big fan of and to have the relationship that we could talk back and forth is so amazing. And when I first approached rock with this, what do you think about Rock Superstar? Honestly I was lost for words. Um, it just

came out of nowhere. I was unexpected. I had to do about half of the day's worth of research to you know, watch clips and just figure out what I wanted to ask ask you justin and then I just I'm still here picking myself, wondering if that when it is over, this is what you're going to be real, So right, well, thank you, thank you. I'm glad it worked out for everybody. It worked out for me. I had a great time. Man. You guys made this so much

fun and made an effortless So thank you. All right, problem at all? Sign off. Anything you want to plug justin just not really just uh, you know, real basic stuff. Just follow me both on Twitter and Instagram at PJ Pollaco. And if you're interested in any of my pro wrestling t shirts, going over to pro wrestling Tis dot com. Backslash just incredible

and that is all question. Are you taking bookings or anything like that, or is anything or anyway, yes, okay, if anybody's interested in booking me for a for podcasts, for pro wrestling, appearances, for comic cons, signings, anything, just email me over at Polaco Peter polac op E t A. R. Seventy three at gmail dot com. That's Polocko Peter seventy three at gmail dot com and I'll get back to you right away. It sounds like a blast. Now everybody knows me. I'm the gardener Michael

Gross, I'm one of your favorites. Well, I hope I'm one of your favorites because I just brought you some wrestling magic. And what I would like you guys to do is follow me at one four four Captain on Twitter, and if you can find me on Facebook or Instagram, good luck you find out a look a lot like see. I'm punk and justin. After we go off the air, if you will hang on for a couple of minutes, I would appreciate it. Rocky T the producer, tell us about

yourself. Bro, you know me, guys super Fox of Houston, Texas at Rocky's Clubs or seven on Twitter. Remember, guys, you can go add free on Patreon or Apple podcast, or you can go ad free on Rocky T. Follow me on Twitter, send me a follow, send me a message and a shout out on the mailback here on a w podcast and I will pay for your first month of afree listening on Patreon. Thanks for

listening to the w w E Podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you don't miss a show, or head to WWE podcast dot com and for all of these shows add free head over to Patreon dot com, Slash WWE Podcast. Until then, we'll see you next time.