This is www superstar Drew McIntyre, and you're listening to the w w E podcast. Stop the show, the one that everybody wants me well start three sixteen says just Clift. Your ass is moder You're gonna acknowledge me. Everybody. Welcome to the current state of w w E E Boyder. We have a lot to talk about tonight with our co host every week, Anthony DeMarco as Yes, payback has just occurred, well two nights ago. We'll put a bow on that, wrap it up real nice for you and put it
under the Christmas tree and it'll be the final discussion about Payback tonight. We'll do that in the second half, and I mean we'll we'll start in just a moment with the whole cm punk rumors and coming to w w E. Should he should he not? Will he? Will he not? So we'll start with all of that in just a minute. But first, welcome to show Anthony. How you doing man? Not too bad man. You know, had a good time watching Payback, and you know it's a B level
pay per view. Nothing astronomical happened, nothing super groundbreaking happened, but I think that it was just another example that in under the Triple H era, we should always give pay per views the band for the doubt, and not to say that every pay per view is going to be a home run. Like I thought, SummerSlam was disappointing relatively speaking to its expectations and the overall
history of that event. But under Triple H is regime here that has been going on for about thirteen months or so, maybe a bit longer than that, and we've talked about a lot too, is that even B level pay per views now feel important. And I think that relatively speaking, payback did deliver. Yeah, it did. I mean I came away the same way
I felt about so many other events other than SummerSlam. Oddly enough, I felt the same way about about ninety percent of the events since the Triple H regime took over and came away going wow, Okay, that was way better. And I attributed it a lot to the wrestlers themselves, not necessarily to the booking, although the booking was generally good. I attributed it to the guys and gals in the ring who were able to have enough time to tell
a story. That's what they're trained to do, That's what they did at a premium level last night, particularly with Trish and Attrish and Becky Lynch, and they over delivered on so many levels. I mean, I'm not trying to go through match by match here, but if you're if you're looking at this from an expectation standpoint and you're going, man, this match totally blew me away from what I thought it was going to be. Was that one
of those matches for sure? And I think overall that entire program has been underwhelming. But you know, even though it's been underwhelming, I'm happy that we saw it right. And I know a lot of people have been dunking on Trish here, but if I'm being honest, that program was more underwelling
because of Becky Lynch. And I just think that Becky Lynch has been stale for quite a while now, And I go all the way back to her feud with Bailey last year that was mega stale and really nobody had any interest in. And I just think that Becky has kind of been the common denominator here in terms of I don't want to say boring, but just stale storytelling. And it feels like she's caught in a time machine and won't leave two, eighteen or nineteen, And you know, I actually I like Trish's work.
Is she, you know, an A plus entering performer? Is she, you know, even in the top five of women wrestlers right now? Obviously not, But I really think that Trish came back in the semi full time run since let's say, WrestleMania and has really given us a lot.
Like I can't say enough about Trish, and relatively speaking, I don't know what more we could have expected of her, including elevating a star and Zoe Stark, Like Zoe Stark already feels like a star, and look a lot of that is on Zoey Stark's part, on her alone, and she's an incredible shape. I think she's already a decent promo good in the ring, but Trish has elevated her and kind of put her over after the cage match
on Saturday night. And to be quite honest, I lie this more at the feet of Becky Lynch as to why this program kind of felt flat even though the final payoff was more was over delivered, let's say, more than what we were expecting. That's an interesting take, you know, I didn't think that, you know, as you look at the Becky Lynch and Trish program. A lot of people were saying, Oh, it's Trish, she
shouldn't be here. You know, she can't cut good promos all of that stuff, and some of the criticisms are fair, but people very rarely are looking at Becky as the culprit of this. And it is kind of an interesting argument to me made that Becky has actually been the one that's been flat
and nominator. Yeah, that's what it is, And it's weird to say, given all that she's accomplished, But she feels, now that you bring it up, kind of like she's been going through the motions of her programs for a while and she went from a heel all of a sudden transition back to the man literally overnight, you know, went immediately back to that character, no changes, like you said, back to the twenty eighteen WrestleMania thirty
five main event man. And you know, while there's nothing wrong with that inherently, it's just kind of a de evolution of the character, or rather a kind of sustained character that feels like it needs to evolve more. Her promos haven't exactly been on fire. It does feel like she's been uninspired for a while, and people keep waiting for her to go to Rhea, which I thought was going to happen after this matchup. But it looks like she's
going to Tiffany Stratton over on SmackDown. She's the NXT Women's Championship be so I guess Becky, he's going to be going over there floating around for a while before they get to Rhea and Becky. So yeah, but hey, credit to Trish in this. Trish killed it. She I don't know if anyone saw her post match, but she had a massive mike. God. She doesn't need to be doing this right now, she I mean, like
her age, her legacy, she doesn't need to be doing this. So people went into this going, oh my god, I want this program to end, and people came out going, man, I actually wouldn't mind one more match from Trish or you know, if this program went one more time, I don't know if I'd really hate it because the match was so damn good and I don't This arguably may have been Trish's best match ever when you think about her her body of work, you know it may have been from
a wrestling perspective, one of her best. So yeah, I really had no issues of this. It completely blew away expectations. So now what about some other big stuff. I don't know if you wanted to comment on it with Shintigan Kamara and Seth Rollins. That was the other thing I wanted to ask to Did you enjoy that match and enjoy the outcome? Yeah? I it was somewhat predictable, But I think that you brought up a good point.
I believe it was your raw review last week where or maybe your payback preview, I'm not quite sure what it was, but you said just the fact that there was a little seat of doubt planted about Shinsky winning. They did their job, and I just think that again under the Triple A regime, and it doesn't come without flaws, but I think what he has done terrifically is has made you care about stories that you know that you know three,
four or five years ago you wouldn't have cared about. And you know that if this program was going on, and let's say twenty seventeen, like when Shinsky was feuding with Ginder Mahal for the WWE Championship, you wouldn't have cared and you wouldn't have thought Shinsky had a snowballs chance of hell of weighing
the championship. But that's the way that we came into this. As soon as we saw saw Shinsky attack Seth, we were just like, Okay, here's just a filler feud, while Seth waits for his bigger and his more true opponent, a true risk at this. All of a sudden we got a true mission from Shinsky, and you saw a big, deep dive into character development and motivation and why Shinsky was doing this. And I think we've seen that at all levels here, like where you will care about matches because
of builds that you typically wouldn't really give a damn about. And you know, I always equal like I don't always, but one thing that I would equate it to was like the Alpha Academy against the Viking Raiders from let's say a month or two ago, where no one really cared about it wasn't all that significant, but wwe invested time into at least creating some kind of a story telling us as to why this was happening. And I felt they did
that tenfold with Shinsky. Nakamura a bit of a predictable outcome obviously with Seth retain the championship, especially at a B level pay per view, But it was a good match, and there was that seed of doubt of Shinsky actually being a truth that threat to the Seth championship. That's all you can ask for. And just people that were down on this program, you know, and I was like everyone else when this first happened, Like you said,
we were just like, okay, we Shinsk, he'll turn. I guess fine, you know it'll it'll be okay, you know the Let Shinsk say five words and that'll be it. And we got a transitional segment with Shinsky that tore apart. His family, talked about sets back, brought to light and injury that many of us didn't know existed. That is real. Let Shinsky speak in his native language. His body language is just superb. The way that he attacks Seth and then just kind of stared at him, his
attacks from behind, it's all been brilliant. The match that they had here was I mean, it's as good as you could have hoped it would be for an in ring perspective. Again, not perfect, but I wasn't expecting perfection. But there were moments in that match with the you know, the kinshasa from behind. I go, you know, hey, this isn't impossible here, It's not impossible. The story was his back and the targeting of
his back. Excellent story to tell. People came out of this really hoping for another and from what I understand, that's actually what is tentatively scheduled for fast Lane is uh, you know, part two of Shinska and Seth, a program that perhaps maybe we looked at and said, yeah, there's a one off, we'll go to somebody else in fast Lane. But now they have a true opponent in Shinska, and people want more of him. And you know what, even when Shinsky gets away from Seth and I still don't
think there's any chance to win. But even when he gets away from Seth, I hope they don't just put him back into mid level obscurity. I hope they continue to build on this whatever this is. This anime version, this subtitle version of Shinsky is just awesome, and I hope that they don't just shove him to the side and back to the you know, back of the line. Pal, thanks for your contributions. I hope they do something with this for Shinskay and it just doesn't go back to where he was.
Do you think that he could actually be a future world champion or do you think you'll always just flirt with being like a like a maybe like a tweeter. He would have to be consistently this good and intriguing for WWE management to be more convinced. I think that they're looking at this as like, all right, we caught lightning in a bottle here, but is this late lightning
sustainable? And if it is, down the line when sets run is a little bit deeper and longer, and you could say, Okay, he's been champion now for a while, which, by the way, it's been over one hundred days, you know, which is short in comparison to Roman everything is, but down the line maybe and if he doesn't, you know, a year from now, if if Seth is still champion and Shinska is coming
back around here, sure, but not in the short term. I think their their eyes was now set on Survivor Series and then Rumble and Mania. They probably aren't going to do it unless things explode, so I doubt it. The only other thing I want to touch on backlash wise, and then we'll get to cempunk well actually quickly. I wanted to say I really liked Rhea and Roquel, and I'm not a massive Raquel fan, but like, maybe it was just the visual, but it felt like a legit fight,
did it not because of the stature both women. Maybe that's why. And I gave it a less than less than positive review. I wasn't super down on it, but it felt clunky at first. I mean, there were a lot of weird missed botch spots that kind of took me out of the moment, and that happens, but it felt like they just haven't got enough minutes with each other in front of a live crowd, and things will improve
as they work more together. And so I wasn't as high on the match, but maybe that's because, like you said, it didn't feel like a polished wrestling match. It felt like power for power, which was the story. But it felt, you know, again clunky, but also like a real, more realistic fight. Yes, I would agree with that, and I will say I wanted to give Miss some flowers because I think the Miss is a guy that is actually really talented, and most of our gripes with
him is booking related. As opposed to his actual ability as a wrestler. And I do think that he did a hell of a job with John Cena and La night in that match. And I just think that that entire match with John Cena adding to it kind of putting La Night over, was really well done. But in classic, you know, current state fashion, I have to take a few shots of Cody Rhodes. Is he the gem of Raw? Did I miss something? Is Cody Rhodes now the general manager Monday
Night Raw? Yeah? He now is not only endorsing endorsing people, he is now cashing in his political chips to make people get people traded to the opposing brand. And how this really is supposed to improve his career, I have no idea. It was just a move to endear him further to the crowd, which is just ridiculous. I have completely, and really, thanks
to your shove, I have completely turned on his baby face character. I gave it a shot, I gave it a try, and I have, as I mentioned last time I payback review, I have jumped off the train. I have tuck and rolled and I'm bruising battered. But I'm off. I'm off. Why does he have to have his grubby paws and everything, like, yes, he had that program with Brock Lesner. It was a good program. Even though I hate Cody, it was a good program.
It paid off well. The match at SummerSlam was actually pretty good. Brock does the cool putting him over thing all that great, but it feels like he doesn't really have anything going on of his own, and he's just sticking his grubby, greedy little uh Like he has to touch everything, he has to be the spokesperson for everything. He has to be the one to give his two sense on everything, and now he's making decisions for the brand and
even him like as him and like Jay usso like cross Paths. Before Jay gets in the ring, we're just like, I hope we know what we're doing, Like who's we? Who are you speaking on behalf of? Why are you bringing him the Monday Night Raw? Why were you the one lobbying for him? Like shouldn't of wwwe been like man like we like Jay's a good asset, Like we can't let him leave, Like if he doesn't want
to go stay on SmackDown, We'll just go to Raw. Like remember when ray Masterio asked Triple H to let him out of his contract last year because he wanted to get away from Dominic and Triple H brought him into his office and said, look, I'll just bring you over to SmackDown you know, a lodgic cool thing. But no, now we have to have Cody Rhodes be the guy who pulls strings. Why does it take pulling of strings to get jausso on Monday night? Raw? Yeah? Like he shouldn't mean yet,
right. Management should be worried about this. Why does Cody have any vested interest in this? There's nothing that would be advantageous for him other than to endear him further to the crowd. That's it. Because Juso is super over coming off of the program with his brother, which I'm actually glad they're on separate brands. Hopefully it stays that way. I don't see. I'm really not interested in Jimmy versus Jay right now, and we all need a
break from that story anyway. So it's good, it's I think it's a it's the right move. But to put this put this award on Cody being the reason that he came over is just it's it's nonsensical. Again, Why is a wrestler cashing in his political chips to bring Jay over a guy that he was just battling in the bloodline. It doesn't doesn't give him any kind of advantage at any level. Really, Uh? And what what what political stroke are we talking about with Triple H, Like, cashing in your political
chips for for what? And then you like you said management should be the one Adam Pierce at least in stories, should be the one concerned about this stuff. Why is Cody concerning himself with this stuff? And then of course you get his stupid half ass smile talking to the Pittsburgh crowd and Grayson Waller, thank god cut him off. No, no, he's like that. Yeah, I'm like thank you, Like I'm just like yeah, and all
everyone bowed. I'm just like, no, no, no, no, no, you just saved us all from his just self incessant need to mention the name of a city to ask a question that can't be answered by a large audience. I just I'm done. It just it makes no sense. And it's just like, so what scares the living you know what out of me, to be quite honest with you, is this is them slowly starting
to plant the seeds for Cody Roman two. Yep. If I'm being perfectly honest, maybe that's why I pissed me off subconsciously to the extent that it did, because I'm just like, oh my god, they're gonna do it again. He's gonna win the Rumble again, and he's gonna challenge Roman again, and then he's gonna win. Which is why I always hate the rematch at WrestleMania, especially in a back to back fashion, because you know that nine times out of ten, the guy is gonna you know, even the
odds. Now, obviously there's there's exceptions, specifically Sean versus Undertaker and Triple H versus Undertaker, but I always just think back to Rock Sina, Like you knew going into wrestle My twenty nine that Sina was being the Rock, and I hate it when it's that obvious. But anyway, it's just I don't know what they're trying to do with Cody, and again, look, I understand that we are in the minority by a long shot, and everyone has a raging heart on for this guy. Pardon my language. I don't
get it, but I've accepted it begrudgingly. But he is the most pompous, self absorbed a hole I've ever seen on WW television who wasn't meant to be that. I've seen pomp as a holes before I have. You know, Randy Orton was kind of like that Triple H had a run like that, like you kind of see it even with like Grayson Waller. But I mean, I just I don't get why people love him so much. There's a part of me that thinks WW is pushing him to the extent just to
dig a dagger into a w which we could get to as well. But I don't get it, Like I don't understand it. I don't understand. Again, this isn't me saying that I hate Cody Rhodes as a wrestler. Like if he was just even in the same exact character but just like in the upper mid card, I would I wouldn't care. I would be like, he's not my cup of tea. But you know he's in the upper
mid card. He's not shoved down our throats. For everyone who Okay, shots all over John Cena for a decade, I came close there, who shot over John c over a decade? For being shoved down our throats? Cody Rhodes is worse than John right now because he's also condensed into a much shorter time frame. Like Cody, Rhodes came back, didn't lose a match, came back after he was injured, number thirty wins the Rumble, nearly won the main event of WrestleMania, and almost never loses matches. I know
he lost one to Brock, but he eventually won the program. So yeah, he's he's essentially undefeated in programs. And you're right, he is this pompous a hole that's it's masked and deodorized with smiles and suits, in bleach blonde hair and catch phrases and sing along music. It can be masked. But you and I and probably others out there are seeing through this crap. And again, this is just a knocks. It's a massive knock on his
baby face character. But looking at all these things, we would be saying the exact opposite and complimenting him if he were a heel. So I don't know about I see no in my crystal ball looking forward in the next six to twelve months, I see no possibility of them turning him. He'll do you, oh, zero percent. And that's another thing that enrages me and pisses off every bone in my body is that they are positioning him to be
the face of the company. That's what they want. And even just a little thing as when they had the tribute to Bray Wyatt on SmackDown and Terry Funk where he was standing right beside Triple Age, and it's like that is where they view Cody Rhodes. They view him as the top baby face, the guy, the ambassador, like to be honest in a lot of ways, Like it feels like he's kind of becoming the successor to Roman Ratings already, Like he's taking the place of Roman, and Roman is slowly taking the
place of Brock. Like that's kind of how this is going for me. Like, and I just I don't know how old Cody Rhodes is. I want to see he's probably in his late thirties. Yeah, so, I mean I don't He doesn't strike me as a guy that you could build around, Like how many more years could he possibly go at this level? And he's a damn good wrestler. It's just yeah, I really like Cody Rhodes as a wrestler. I think he's a good promo, even if I don't
like the content, like I stuff to give the guys flowers. He's a really coveted asset. But it's just I don't like how they're forcing him to be something he isn't like it is okay for him to be at like a Drew McIntyre level or a shame Iss type of level. But I'll be honest with you, like, I think that Drew McIntyre is a much more coveted
asset than Cody Rhodes is. In my opinion, I think him at Drew McIntyre, had it not been for COVID, probably would have exploded as a guy on tier with with uh like maybe not close to Roman reigns, or maybe not Roman reigns, but maybe close to it. I just don't get why they've like landed on this obsession where he has to be like this over the top, holier than Thou above everyone saved for Roman type of guy.
I just don't think he's that. I think he made an astute point there where he feels like he feels I'm paraphrasing what you said, but he's a spokesperson for the company. He's an ambassador for the company. He's like he's like a white version of Titus O'Neill, except he's actually wrestling regularly. Like he feels like he's a spokesperson that cuts company approved promos but occasionally wrestles a match. He doesn't feel like this, like this kind of organic pro wrestling,
pro wrestler that's super easy to relate to. He just feels like he was cut from management, and you know, especially with his suits and everything else, and he's so he's so just self aware when he's talking. It's obnoxious. I'm actually, while I agree he's a good promo, the way he cuts promos, this cadence, all of this stupid smile. I want to see someone knock his teeth. I mean, I just I don't want
more to say about it other than I agree. I do think they're grooming him to face Roman Reigns at WrestleMania, if, of course Dwayne isn't there. I mean, Dwayne obviously trumps everything, but all right, well before we get to see him, punk get any closing thoughts on Cody or Payback in general. I would just I'm gonna leave Cody, But no, I think that it did exactly what it had to do the pay per view.
That is, I think it advanced storylines. It advanced some wrestlers and La Knight specifically, it told more of a story with seth Rons and his back. I think that it did everything that you would have hoped it to do in a perfect world. All right, well then we're going to transition to see Him Punk the news of the day, which I mean we we got notified a day or two ago about Tony Kahn releasing Phil Brooks see Him Punk from aw for cause he announced it, and which was you know, bad
timing considering that they're all in event. Was in Chicago when he got fired before the event, so quite an interesting timing. Obviously, this is not part of a story. This is real. He got fired. We've heard about the incident with Jack Perry and he confronted Phil Brooks Sampunk. He confronted
him and the two got into a scuffle. And you know, Jack Perry also has been suspended indefinitely, so there is some fault not just on Sampunks them, but of course on Jack Perry that you know, we obviously none of us were there to see it. But there's always two sides to every story, and you can't. As much as I don't like Sampunk behind the scenes and things I've heard and things he's done on camera, I think Jack Perry is still partially you know, even maybe majority of majority of ly responsible
for this. Either way, this is not good for Sampunk's resume. Doesn't exactly his history doesn't help him. Everything he's done on camera with Tony Khan what was a year or a year and a half ago or whatever it was. And he's sitting there chewing down or shoving down at cheeseburger and acting like a fool and embarrassing the company. Uh, And I look, I'm an see him punk fan to the from the perspective of I respect what he's done. I was excited when he returned, but not a good look as to
what he's done for the company. And he, you know, bad mouthed the the company, saying I hate it here and all this stuff that you just don't do, man, you just you just you don't do that because guess what, it doesn't exactly look at make your employer future employers look at you with envy and make them want you because they're gonna say, well, they're gonna do the same thing to me, and so I'll stop there, but I don't know what your thoughts on on the incident with the AW.
I'll preface this by saying that I think AW the way it's run is very ash league. I think that, and I think Jim Cornette has said this a bunch of times. It's run by a super fan who also happens to be a billionaire or his dad's a billionaire, and it's like he's playing live with his action figures now. And just the fact that Tony Khn is like the the owner, CEO and GM like just has nobody else in a prominent
position kind of kind of like it kind of speaks to that. And I guess you could point to like that was Vince McMahon for thirty odd years or whatever, but like Vince also started as a ring announcer and grinded his way to where he was, like Tony Kahn just pretty much had everything handed to him. So I do think that there are a lot of problems in a EW, and that it is it's kind of like the inmates run the asylum there and it is just a glorified indie show for like a bunch of indie
friends to do there like to have fun with each other. At that same time, you have veteran wrestlers like Daniel Bryan making it work there, Staying making it work there, John Moxley making it work there. You know, William Regal was making it work there. You have like a true superstar in
MJF making it work there. So even though there are a lot of inherent problems with the company and a lot of house cleaning that Tony Khan needs to do on his part, and I don't think that he really does a good job of reigning stuff in there, just based on things I read about it about the company, Like I don't watch AW It's not my cup of team. I'm not a fan of the wrestling style. That doesn't make it bad,
it's just not for me. I think what CM punk has done to his own image over the last twelve months is it's kind of tarnished his reputation and it's kind of made people go back and reevaluate what happened in WWE, you know, nine and a half years ago or whenever it was in early twenty fourteen, and when you really think about it, like he wrestles in the Royal Rumble and then just walks out. Like when you really break it down, it's like, who the bleep does this guy think he is.
And that's not to say that everything in WWE is perfect, certainly not. At that time, like early twenty fourteen was arguably like the peak of like Vince just refusing to give the fans what they want, where you know, he had a returning Batista when the Rumble and pressing down the Yes movement and all that. And look, we've seen people be not happy with the company and then when their contract expires they say, you know what, you know, I want to do something else. We saw dang O Brian do it.
We saw Dana Ambrose do it. Cesarro walked away like it's not a foreign concept, nor does it make you wrong for just, you know, wanting something else. But the way CM punk kind of went about it in terms of walking out the night of Monday Night Raw after the Royal Rumble, you know, insulting Triple H on the way out, going on Cold Cabana's
podcast and ripping the company like he always kind of came off bitter. But people were so infatuated with the twenty twelve version of cmpunk and the recency bias that that's the punk they remembered and they just always sided with him. Not to mention Vince mcmahn didn't really hold a lot of benefit of the debt with the crowd or with the fan base. But after he pulled the stunt last year where he was eating burgers or muffins or whatever, and he he was
just like, I'm old, I'm beat up. I worked with children. And then he comes back and you know he's not in the best ring shape. You see that he's losing it a bit, but he's still acting all wholier than thou. You hear how he reacts to like and even if Jack Perry said something that was offside, which it surely was the case as he was suspended as well, and surely the elite did do some things bad on their own part as well. He just doesn't handle himself as a professional.
He thinks his you know what, doesn't sting. He thinks he's better than everyone. He always thinks he's right, and at this point, it's just like, dude, you're just not as good as you think you are. The reason why you everyone thought you were that good was because you had an amazing twenty four months, twenty four month long stretch and then you walked away
and we never got to sell you again. And that was just the version that people perpetually played over in their heads for the seven or eight years that you weren't on wrestling television. And I just think that he has an inflated ego. And because he disappeared for seven years, I know, I'm rambling here, ping it up, he just grew himself into a bigger phenomenon than he was. Actually, if you take away the pipe bomb in Vegas, the infamous pipe bomb and that never happened, what is CM Punk's legacy.
I mean, like you, you look at what he's done in w W E, and he lived off of that for a long time, and he brought a lot of that into a w and the fans gave him a massive poppy. It's one of the biggest pops I've ever heard in my life. And you know what, I was excited too. It was a pop that
gives you chills because people never thought he would return to pro wrestling. He finally does, but then he, you know, he went on a tirade of you know, insulting the company and saying that basically he didn't wrestle, you know, in w w E. He blanked that out of his career, like he doesn't consider that pro wrestling and all that. He is kenned WWE so many times publicly, so I don't see to answer the question that ultimate everyone's asking and pondering, does he return to w w E. If
I was WWE, I understand the crowd would go crazy. Oh my god. And I believe saira series is in Chicago, I think, I think, and there's some that I've tweeted this out. There is a poster going around, fan made but still of Roman Reigns versus CM Punk and oh my god, imagine this, and it's if it's in Chicago. I understand the allure of it. But honestly, I mean, I don't need seem punk back. If they want to do a Hall of Fame for him, fine,
you know, somewhere down the line, but seampunk. If he came back, if I'm Punk, I would feel like I'm betraying myself and everything I've said over the last ten years. I would feel like I'm a sellout. So he'd kind of have to swallow his pride a bit to go back. If I'm wwe. I'm sitting there going okay. He just embarrassed the company that's paying him hefty amounts of money to be there. He's not acting, as you said, like a professional. He's embarrassing us. He is
cancerous in the locker room and even seth rollins. I don't know if you've heard that interview recently over the last it was like six months or so, where someone asked him, would you like to see Punk back? And he said, no, Phil, stay where you are. You're a cancer. He basically called Phil Brooks a cancer in the locker room and we don't want you anywhere near here. And he was serious. You know, there's not
a whole lot of love back there for wanting Punk back. So you have to understand that if your WWB two is okay, if you can get over the fact that he embarrassed the company he's working for, do we want him in the locker room? Is he going to be a cancer in the locker room where he's proven to be in the company he just got fired by. So it's you know, I understand that it may bring in money. Sure,
is it going to bring in a bunch of money? Probably it will fans go crazy all of that, you know, but do you really what's it worth? Is it worth causing drama a backstage? Is it worth potentially having him embarrassed the company? And is it also a good look at all? Is it a good optic to hire a guy that just got fired from a company because he was he was acting like a non professional. So I don't know your thoughts. I think WWE would do it just because what's best
for business. And I do think WWE and Vince Mcmahonmoir specifically has a it's kind of like an ego thing for guys to come crawling back. And there's always the ones who crawled back, like the nWo came back with Razor Diesel and Hogan, Brett Hart came back, Warrior came back, Sam Martino comes back like and cm punk would be a good get and I would watch it.
I want to see what it was. And I do think and you've heard some now things like rumblings of well, remember when he was at Monday Night Raw a few months ago, and people have said that, like, you know, he was open to returning at the Rumble last year and wanted out of his aw contract and maybe there's a part of cmpunk that after going to a EW realize like man, you know, like the creative wasn't great
over there a law of the time. And you know, I think everyone could agree that Vince McMahon has been detached from creative for probably over a decade at this point, but in terms of what the fans want, but it's not a bush league operation, and I think we could all agree even if people don't like the creative direction of WWW, it has never been a bush league operation, or hasn't been for well over two and a half decades.
So maybe for him, he just wanted to Maybe for him rather it just took being on the other side of the fence and realizing that the green the grass isn't always greener to want to go back to WWE. And I don't think that you could ever make him like a main eventor nor do I think he should be. Like you know, AW basically brought him in and made him the face of that company, and it was only when he got suspended last year that they kind of put MJF in that role and that was a
damn you know, blessing in disguise if you ask me. But they really just kind of shoved CM punk right to the face of right to being the face of that company. And I don't think WWE would be in that spot at all. Like I don't even know like where you would rank seem Punk, Like he wouldn't be ahead of Cody, he wouldn't be ahead of Roman, he wouldn't be ahead of seth Rawlins. I mean even after that, like you have some of the younger guys like Damian Priest, who obviously is
gonna get a major push soon. You see what La Knight is doing, Austin Theory, Grace and Waller, they obviously have big plans ahead of them. Like I think that you would probably have CM punk kind of fall into that AJ style Shamus category. And if he was willing to take that, and I don't know how he could be willing to ask for more after the stunt he just pulled an aew If he wants to come back into professional wrestling and he's willing to take that spot, I don't think it would be that
big of a deal. Because the other thing is is that even if he did try to embarrass the company, WWE wouldn't promote him as the you know, the overarching face of it, like he embarrassed the company first and foremost because he did it sitting beside the owner Tony Kahn and Tony Khan, I hate to say it, clearly doesn't have a strong backbone. He let him disgrace the company while sitting right there. He's clearly pushed around by his talent.
I don't think, for instance, I don't think that you would ever see se him punk cutting a press conference sitting beside Triple Ah, And you could bet your damn dollar that he would never cut anything remotely close to that with striple age sitting right there. So I don't think that there'd be a major risk for WWE. I think it would just have to be understood, like if you're coming back, you're coming back in like the mid card Max.
They Yeah, Look, that's probably the strongest case you could make for him to return, is that w W you know you you act, you act like a fool, You're gone, Like there's no you know, you embarrass us, You're gone, no question to ask CEA and w W. You're right. They actually have much more of a spine than Tony Kan.
Tony Khan comes off. I mean like Honestly, I don't know what he's like in real life, but he comes off on camera, especially when he has talent there, like he is, you know, just kind of this little, this little shell of a man like he for all his money, he certainly is you know, missing a set okay, like he's got all the dollars but no no set. Like that's what it feels like with Tony And you know, I just again, I don't know him personally obviously,
but that's the feeling I get. And uh with see him Punky. You know the problem with that though, is if you put him in the mid card, the fan is gonna be like, well, why him back at all? Like if you're just gonna stick him in the mid card to fight for an IC or US title, like, well, why even bring him
back? He's not gonna be a full time guy. He's a guy that you would use as you know, kind of a main event guy for you know, a pay per viewer two every six months, and you know he's probably not gonna go on any major title runs, but it would be a massive draw, buzz everywhere. Oh my god, sa him punks back in WWE after ten years nearly so there's a lot of money to be had there. But I don't know if fans. Fans would be like, oh cool, he's back. He's gonna face Roman, He's gonna face Seth. Imagine
the promos and then they stick him with like ricochet, you know. I mean, like I it's probably not what they do. If you're gonna go and bring him back, that's a big move. You're not maximizing your dollars there, You're kind of And if I were Punk too, I'd be like, you're really you're gonna You're gonna put me here, you know, so
you're either doing it all in no pun intended or you're not. And I would you know, while the promos between Roman and Punk would be a lot of fun, given everything that he has said about Roman over the years, and how not super negative, but how he was told make Roman look strong, make Roman look good, all those things that management told him as Roman was coming up in the ranks. You know he could bring that up, and how he was one of the last few guys he worked with before he
left. There's a lot of fun to be had with with Punk back, And don't get me wrong, And would I be very intrigued. If I hear you know, cult to personality, Hell, yeah, I'm a wrestling fan. I would be like, yeah, I'd be standing up going, oh my god, what what is going to happen here? But do I think it's a good business decision? W W is gonna have to decide that and decide if the money that's going to come in is worth the risk of
a guy that is a proven liability. Yeah, it's I honestly, like, I just don't know, because I don't even would you want to see in main eventing shows? Would you, like, not regularly, like like
sparingly, he'd be on a very limited schedule. Yeah, So I mean it's I don't know, Like I would like to see it just for like, okay, he finally came back, and I would like to see a humble version of himself, like the whole arrogant, you know, rebel thing, Like I really it kind of for me, it always had a shelf life, and I always thought he had way too much smoke blown up his
rear end. Then you know, we kind of spoke about like what is CM punk aside from the Summer of Punk, Like even if we like go back and recount his his He was champion for what eighteen months from mid twenty eleven to early twenty thirteen. I believe like his room was good, but it wasn't like the greatest w W championship run of all time. Like I didn't think he was a like a you know, a knockout champion by any
sorts. Like I don't know, like it's he was good, He just isn't what people made him out to be or what he thought he was in his own mind. And I think given the depth of talent in WW right now, if he came back, he would have to understand his place. But maybe you know, going to AW really you know, made him understand some stuff and for you Like obviously neither of us really watch AW, so we can't speak to the actual wrestling product. But like, has this made
you look at the AW any worse than maybe before or any better? Like has it changed your perception of the company at all? Well? No, I mean other than just to see seeing Tony Kahn actually do what he needed to do and probably should have done a long time ago. Although he did still do it was good to see and he did announce that you know, he did regrettable, regrettably have to fire Sam Pumpkin. Do I look at
a w an differently, No, kind of the same. I mean the problem is when you have a guy that runs the company that feels like he is not capable of coming down hard on guys when they need to be. It's difficult to respect a company like that. Now it's not to say I don't respect the wrestling. I don't respect the wrestlers, but the way the
company's run is difficult to respect. When it's you know, inmates run the asylum and you have a guy at the top that is, as Jim Cornett said, a superfan that doesn't seem to really you know, to lead with an iron fist. It does lend itself to feel like everything's kind of chaotic and it's whatever the political you know, agenda of the week is and who's got the most stroke with the top guys. It feels very I'm imagining kind
of like an NWOSH scenario. And you know, in the late nineties when Hogan and Nashal Hall were running things backstage and they were also the talent, like, they had a ton of political and creative stroke and they got to choose the guys and gals they worked with and all this, and so it feels very much like that, and that obviously led in part to w CW's collapse, so it kind of cannibalize their own product. It feels like a
little bit of that is happening here. Not to that extreme. I'm not saying aw's gonna collapse, but they have certainly enough cash to keep themselves going. But I just don't think it's conducive to a respectable way to lead a company when the guy can't even you know, the head of the company can't even you know, seemingly grow a set. I just feels that way.
But all right, well, I'll leave it there. But any any final thoughts here we were going to wrap this up, guys, any final thoughts on Punk or well, let me ask us ultimately, do you think CM Punk's coming back to WWE. I think he shows up in what capacity. I don't know, if it's a one off, if it's a three month run, if it's a brock Leissner type of schedule, I'm not sure. But I do think we will see CM Punk on WWE television sooner rather than
later, So before twenty twenty three. Is over. You're saying we will
see here or get hints of punk. I think, by the rumble, we'll see cmpunk because I also think that, even though they don't like to admit it, I think WWE likes any chance to stomp on a ew and I think brillan cmpunk would be a major shot across the bow, especially if they make it work, Because if they could make it work, even like you said, on a part time schedule basis, I think that that would go to show that like, yeah, this guy can be a bit of
a dick sometimes by my language, and a bit of a jerk, But at the same time, we have a structured, professional company here, and we could work around his issues, and we could utilize him as a valuable commodity as opposed to the bush league operation run by the Mark with the billionaire dad. And I think for WWE that would be a major victory, especially given the fact what they've done with Cody. Yeah, i'd agree, I think a few of the factors. So first of all, my answer is
I do think we'll probably see him back. I'm not heavily heavily leaning that way. The thing is WWE doesn't need cm punk I think CM Punk needs a WWE a little bit more than if it were the other way around. And the reason I say that is I think Punk wants to be able to, in his own mind, stick it to a w who he feels mistreated him. And you know it's run by you can imagine what he's saying. It's run by amateurs. It's very political. I mean, I know what
he's gonna probably say. So you're imagining Punk, knowing what he's like on camera, probably you know, trying to damage the company that he just got fired from. So I'm sure there's that impulse from Punk. But do I think WWE needs him, No, they certainly don't need him. The company will be just fine, and it's on the on the rise. I mean, think about where we were just five years ago where we are now and coming stars and all that. So, but I do think we'll see him.
I think we'll see him probably before WrestleMania or at WrestleMania or Rumble that kind of thing. We're getting into that season now. And do I want to see him go on a major title run though, No, I don't. I just want to see him cut some fun promos, get the massive crowd reactions and kind of have a very here and their schedule over the next six to twelve months, call it a career, and you know, then hang up the boots for good because the guy he's not meant to go multiple
times a week or a month for that matter. So no, I agree, I mean, just like have like a proper fail farewell tour. Like look, he finally came back. He had a non dysfunctional professional wrestling run
in you know, the twenty twenties. I don't know, it's just it feels like as much as I don't think he's as big of a star as he thought he was or as many fans thought he was, I do think he should be remembered better than how it went aw And as much as I do think that, you know, a lot of this lies at his own feed, I do think that a big problem is how the operation is run at AW. To be quite honest with you, Yeah, it's a very
country club feel. From what I understand. It's kind of you know it is, and it might run the asylum sounds cool, it does, But even if you're the talent there, you're thinking, oh wow, it's not like, you know, a very hierarchical structure. It's kind of like you
can have your own feedback, but that comes with its own downsides. People don't I mean, like you think it sounds fun, it sounds cool, But the thing is then it's then it's kind of you know, controlled chaos, and it's who knows who, And you know, it's not so much what's best for the company, it's well, what I'm gonna get my stuff in? Who am I going to work? It becomes very much a political, self centered game. Uh. And that's certainly the case, no matter
even if you're in WWE. But it's more it's mitigated much more by having a very hierarchical uh you know, just decision tree or or or rather a workflow or what is I'm trying to say, But there's like you know, executive CEO, VP of creative like all the way down the line. Then you have a room of writers and that comes with its own downfalls too.
But you know, I think that it's not as good of a it's not a conducive environment as much people many people would think in a W two further in your career than it is in w w E. But anyway, all right, well, final thoughts before we wrap. All I would say is for listeners to look out for an announcement over the next coming days. There you go, Yeah, I can confirm that. Guys. Oh, I'll make an announcement tomorrow on my Monda and at Raw Review. I'll keep you
guys hooked. If that works, I'll let you guys know what's going on tomorrow Night's It's a pretty pretty big deal, So I'll announce that tomorrow at the top of my Monday and at Raw Review. Stay tuned for that. But I just want to let you guys know Anthony will be doing a retro this coming week, and I don't I don't know if you had a topic in mind or if we'll kind of figure it out as the days go by.
Here, you know, I had a topic in mind, but obviously with some stuff in the works behind the scenes, I think it's more of a fluid situation as this week's retro maybe a much bigger and more significant retro than ever before. So we still do have some things in the queue.
Maybe we will do Rocks Return with Eugene, but I think there's gonna be a lot of moving parts in the coming days, and it will depend on how things fall there you go, guys, A little teaser kind of feel where we're going here, a bit of a teaser, but will be a retro on Friday and it'll it'll be a big one and then we'll see after that. As I said, well, we'll let you guys know what's going on tomorrow on raws. I'll check that out. And do you want to
share social media? I know you as as hockey season gets a little a little closer and a little closer, maybe you'll want to share that. Yeah, so aid to mark a twenty five on two are obviously going to be more active there as uh as the hockey season gets underway, and maybe after this announcement may get more active there in terms of this podcast and all that. So maybe looking to do some more interactive stuff as well. So yeah, at a Marker twenty five on Twitter or X or whatever it's called right
now. I know we still call it Twitter. Sound calling it X just sounds bizarre. So yeah, all right, yeah check him out on Twitter and guys, say too for the announcement and we'll be talking again real soon. Looking forward to it. Man, enjoy your night, you two. Thanks for listening to the w w E podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast app so you don't miss a show, or head to WWE podcast dot com and for all of these shows add free head over to Patreon
dot com slash WWE podcast. Until then, we'll see you next time.